Knicks Morning News (2017.01.27)

  • [NYTimes] Russell Westbrook Tops List of 14 All-Star Reserves Chosen by Coaches
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 3:56:28 AM)

    Westbrook, the N.B.A.’s leading scorer, will join his former Thunder teammate Kevin Durant on the West team, while Gordon Hayward, DeAndre Jordan and Kemba Walker will make their All-Star debuts.

  • [NYTimes] Rajon Rondo Rips Teammates: ‘My Vets Would Never Go to the Media’
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 3:37:46 AM)

    Rondo, the Chicago Bulls guard, fired back at Dwyane Wade and Jimmy Butler in an Instagram post the day after they had criticized younger members of the team.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: Carmelo Anthony, Snubbed as All-Star, Weighs Clean Break From Knicks
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 2:21:40 AM)

    Anthony was denied the small respite he is usually afforded from his struggling team. And the talk was heating up that he may be playing elsewhere.

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony out of All-Star game, ending 7-year run
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:24:57 PM)

    Knicks F Carmelo Anthony was not named to the list of Eastern Conference reserves for the NBA All-Star Game announced Thursday by the league, ending Anthony’s string of seven consecutive appearances.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks ‘determined’ to trade Melo, have reached out to Celtics and Clippers
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:30:30 PM)

    The Knicks are ‘determined’ to trade Carmelo Anthony prior to the Feb. 23 deadline and have reached out to the Celtics and Clippers, reports Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical.

  • [SNY Knicks] TheKnicksBlog Podcast: Let’s Make a Deal
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 4:15:41 PM)

    Anthony Donahue and Moke Hamilton are ready for the Knicks to trade Carmelo Anthony. The guys discuss where Melo could be headed and what they would receive in return. Later, Ant and Moke get into the issues surrounding Kristaps Porzingis.

  • [SNY Knicks] The Rose and Jennings experiment at point guard isn’t working
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:45:20 AM)

    Point guards Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings struggled on Wednesday night as the Knicks lost to the Mavericks, 103-95, in Dallas.

  • [SNY Knicks] Boom or Bust: Should the Knicks trade Derrick Rose?
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:40:49 AM)

    Marc Malusis and Jon Hein debate what the Knicks should do with Derrick Rose.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks also reached out to Clippers, Celtics about Carmelo Anthony trade, report says
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:46:33 PM)

    Phil Jackson continues to try to find a new home for Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony does not make NBA All-Star Game for first time since 2009
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:27:55 PM)

    For the first time in eight years, Carmelo Anthony will not be playing in the NBA All-Star Game.

  • [ESPN] Debating NBA All-Star snubs and future picks
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 6:10:21 PM)

    Debating NBA All-Star snubs and future picks

  • [ESPN] Friday’s Knicks News: Harrington doesn’t believe Melo will waive his no-trade clause
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 5:23:20 AM)

    Friday’s Knicks News: Harrington doesn’t believe Melo will waive his no-trade clause

  • [ESPN] Vote: Who are the biggest NBA All-Star snubs in each conference?
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:50:44 PM)

    Vote: Who are the biggest NBA All-Star snubs in each conference?

  • [ESPN] Carmelo Anthony’s seven-year All-Star streak snapped
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 8:33:34 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony’s seven-year All-Star streak snapped

  • [ESPN] Report: Knicks don’t need a Clippers star for Melo
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:42:19 PM)

    Report: Knicks don’t need a Clippers star for Melo

  • [ESPN] Who would win a Melo-Love fantasy trade?
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:12:17 PM)

    Who would win a Melo-Love fantasy trade?

  • [NYPost] Carmelo friend and ex-Knick: Anthony won’t leave New York
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 11:14:28 PM)

    Al Harrington has been a longtime friend of Carmelo Anthony, his former teammate in Denver. Despite Knicks president Phil Jackson stepping up the urgency to seek a trade, Harrington said he still doesn’t see Anthony waiving his no-trade clause. “The fact he loves New York so much, I think he probably stays for the rest…

  • [NYPost] Jackson can’t screw up Carmelo trade, or it will hurt Porzingis
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:23:13 PM)

    The momentum is tangible now, seemingly unstoppable. The Knicks and Carmelo Anthony are steaming toward a divorce that, for years, seemed almost as inevitable as Brad and Angelina’s, and every bit as complicated. Hard feelings abound now, and things only promise to get uglier between now and exile. That’s how these things go. But Phil…

  • [NYPost] Summer hoops in NYC: Former NBAers to play in 16-team league
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:35:42 PM)

    Can the Gotham Ballers beat the Knicks? Former Knick Al Harrington won’t go that far, but thinks the new Champions Basketball League product will serve as summer itch for NBA-starved fans. The concept of the upstart 16-team semi-pro league to debut in July has changed over the past year. Instead of dawning as an over-30…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony an All-Star no more
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 3:52:12 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony received another blow to the ego Thursday night. He won’t be going to All-Star Weekend for the first time since 2008-2009. Anthony was passed over when the seven Eastern Conference reserves for next month’s game in New Orleans were announced Thursday night — left off a list that included four guards and three…

  • [NYPost] Phil on mission to deal Carmelo: Talks trade with Clippers, Celtics
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:49:26 AM)

    From LeBron James in Cleveland to Chris Paul in Los Angeles, Knicks president Phil Jackson is working in earnest to find a new home Carmelo Anthony would approve of. A source confirmed the Knicks contacted the Clippers about an Anthony trade, but any deal would have great complexity because Blake Griffin can’t be on the…

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson must find deal that suits Carmelo Anthony and Knicks
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:10:54 PM)

    When the All Star reserves were announced Thursday it was like another punch to the gut for Carmelo Anthony.

  • [NYDN] Trade drama around Carmelo Anthony hides Knicks’ many warts
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 7:07:32 PM)

    It’s a good thing they brought the team psychiatrist on their latest road trip.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ Carmelo Anthony does not make All-Star roster
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:50:36 PM)

    Thursday night provided a hint of Carmelo Anthony’s trade value: the NBA coaches do not view him as an All-Star.

  • [NYDN] Breaking down the three teams in on Carmelo Anthony trade talks
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 12:15:14 PM)

    Three teams that Phil Jackson contacted to try to shed Melo — that we know of — are the logical suspects: Cavs, Clippers & Celtics.

  • [NYDN] Knicks discuss trading Carmelo to Clippers but not for big name
    (Thursday, January 26, 2017 9:12:42 AM)

    The Knicks reportedly tried to ship Carmelo Anthony to cities other than Cleveland.

  • 214 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.27)”

    It’s always better to question or ignore trade rumors, but LeBron forcing a deal for Carmelo does not necessarily seem that ridiculous. Trade Machine is down right now but I believe the Cavs could get it done w/o having to give up Love… and why wouldn’t the Knicks be willing to do that assuming they’re willing to take a package around Austin Rivers?

    Brian: Will read that Isiah article from the last thread w/ great interest. Thanks for posting!

    It all comes down to whatever first round picks the Knicks can finagle from potential trade partners. If the Cavs can offer us something in terms of a couple of first round choices we’d have to look and consider them.

    Firing Jackson is the right way to start healing the Knicks. What makes anyone believe he is the person capable of undoing his own monumentally bad Carmelo Anthony mistake?

    At this point, keeping Melo is probably the best option. The alternative is to give up assets while taking on equally bad contracts on worse players.

    It won’t be cheap to get rid of Melo. Much cheaper and better to get rid of Jackson.

    More ass backwards logic. The Carmelo Anthony mistake was Donnie Walsh’s. Phil is actually going to salvage it by getting something in return for him. I hope it includes two 1st round picks. That would be so awesome.

    I have to give Phil Jackson credit. I don’t mean this as meanly as it comes out, but he is like a cockroach or a rat — he is scratching/clawing/surviving — and he probably will. He digs a huge hole for himself, then expects people to give him credit for trying to dig a deeper hole to find a way to China. It’s HIS roster that sucks so bad that he has to look to trade his superstar. It was HIS agreeing to give a NTC that makes this Melo trade so difficult. It was HIS signing of Joakim Noah for 4 years that sucks rocks. And as noblefacehumper pointed out the other day, this is 100% his roster. No one else to blame. And yet Twitter and everywhere else is exploding with Knicks rumors.

    That said – I would be reasonably happy with Rivers/Redick/Brice Johnson/Crawford + a top3 protected 2021 1st round (and then maybe unprotected in 2022 if LAC is top3 in 2021) for Melo and Jennings. Rivers is ok, provides at least as much dribble/drive as Rose while playing much better D and being 4 years younger. Redick is great and would be a good locker room guy, would even consider extending/resigning him after this year. Crawford is terrible and good for the tank.

    OKOKOK I’ve got it. See here: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=j66u8e4

    Basically:
    Knicks get: Rubio, Crawford, Austin Rivers, Marcus Smart, Brice Johnson

    Celtics get: Kyle O’Quinn

    Clippers get: Carmelo, Jennings, Vujacic

    T-Wolves get: Redick

    I actually think that’s reasonable for all sides – we get MUCH younger and more athletic. Celtics get the big that rebounds and rim protects they need. Clippers get Melo and a stopgap PG for until CP3 gets back (as well as some extra room under their hard cap), Wolves get a much needed veteran leadership and a deadeye shooter to put around Towns.

    Has Rivers’ name actually been put out there or is it just “the Knicks have spoken to the Clippers about a trade proposal that doesn’t involve any of the Big Three” and then speculation from there?

    Seems hard to believe Doc would deal his own kid, especially when he’s their starting one now.

    You better believe CP3 wants Melo on this team — they’ve basically had an offensive zero at the 3 for the entire year with Mbah a Moute. If they can somehow avoid dealing Redick in a trade for Melo, that is an unbelievably potent offensive lineup, ESPECIALLY because CP3 would hold the keys to the car. CP3/Redick/Melo/Blake/DJ could very possibly go score-for-score with the Dubs.

    And as much as I’m sure Doc wants to keep his son, he has to know that his job is 100% dependent on CP3 agreeing to stay this offseason. They are in cap/pick hell. And if CP3 thinks fatherly devotion is getting in the way of winning…

    Why would the team give the Knicks any picks when they know they do not have too? Will Doc bid against himself. I know he is a bad gm but I think he can still out smart Phil.

    Well, we did bid against ourself for Melo. Twice.

    So it’s not unprecedented with him.

    What Phil must have right now is balls.

    If a good trade doesn’t happen, give a big fuck you to Melo and keep him with our lottery team core.

    Why would the team give the Knicks any picks when they know they do not have too? Will Doc bid against himself. I know he is a bad gm but I think he can still out smart Phil.

    Reason would be that Doc has no options otherwise to get a player the caliber of Melo, and the Knicks really don’t NEED to deal Melo at all. He’s under contract for next year, and there could be plenty more interest in Melo over the summer when teams will have more cap space to absorb a contract like that. It’s not like MeloDrama 1.0 where Melo was walking that summer for nothing if the Knicks didn’t deal him.

    Pressure on Doc is actually pretty high – CP3 is getting older and could walk this summer, Blake could decide to walk this summer. Redick is expiring and could leave too. If the Clips flame out in the first round (not ridiculous), Doc could be left with a fair amount of cap room (? $40MM) but TONS of holes (like every position other than center) to fill with very few draft picks in the next few years.

    It’d be great if the Knicks can trade Melo for anything of value. But if nobody is biting and people want assets in addition to Melo keeping him isn’t the worse. He has an opt out after next season and he’d probably still be able to get 3×15 from someone so it’d be worth it for him to go.

    As for PJ, let’s see what he does with our 4 easily tradable-for-value players, KQ, Jennings, Lee and Holiday, and one potentially tradable-for-value player, Rose.

    Frank @10 Reason would be that Doc has no options otherwise to get a player the caliber of Melo

    Absolutely. If the Clips can get Melo without giving any of their big 3 they have to do it.

    The problem in Cleveland is that all of their money is being tied up in their starting five. Kyrie, Kevin Love, Tristan Thompson, and LeBron all signed max contracts. JR Smith got $57M, and none of those guys are on the market. The only way Cleveland can get Melo is if they move Love, and then we’d move him to Boston.

    The important thing is that we have the leverage in any Clipper deal. Redick is about to turn 33yo and will want to be paid on a 4-5 year deal so Courtney Lee makes some sense for Clips. Melo plus Lee plus some useful backups like Holiday/Jennings/Kuz is their best path to a chip in the next 3 years. That’s why I hope Phil is a smart negotiator here unlike in the past. We should obtain in any Clipper deal: Brice Johnson, 2021 unprotected pick, 2023 unprotected pick, any 2nd round picks, maybe a 2022 swap, and Rivers. All of the contracts we take on with the exception of Wesley Johnson’s 5m would be off the books at the end of next season when we might want to sign a free agent like Gallinari. And Pierce/Moute could just be waived to free up roster spots.

    Ballmer’s like the 30th richest guy in the world so luxury tax is not an issue. Rivers is decent but CP3’s gonna be playing 38mpg in the playoffs and Jennings/Felton would be fine for the other 10 minutes. I don’t think Ballmer would let Doc hold up this important a deal to hold onto his son.
    This trade would be great for Clips and probably the best we’re gonna do for Melo unless Bron decides he needs to shake things up in Cleveland. If Melo’s leaving it will be to a team which has a chance at a chip this and the next 2 seasons. That would be the Clips and Cavs. That eliminates the Celtics. And his wife ain’t livin’ in Texas (nor would he want to raise his son in Houston or San Antonio). I suspect Phil’s Boston contact involved understanding Ainge’s receptivity to a 3-way trade of some sort.

    An alternative course involving keeping Melo has some merit. Tank hard by limiting KP and Melo’s minutes. Hope to trade Rose and/or Noah and/or KOQ for Rubio. Dunno but I kinda like this also:

    1: Rubio/Ntilikina
    2: Lee/Baker/Holiday
    3: Melo/Lance/Kuz/Holiday
    4: Melo/KP
    5: KP/Willy

    lol I don’t think any GM would consider trading literally half the roster in mid-season.
    I mean, for the Clips, that’s 5 rotation players!

    Why would the team give the Knicks any picks when they know they do not have too?

    Because, as Frank wrote, Phil isn’t the only person in this equation feeling the pressure to make a deal. Doc has CP3 breathing down his neck as he potentially enters free agency this offseason. You really think he wants to tell his stud PG that he didn’t acquire a major piece that would get their team out of the second round of the playoffs because of some far away draft picks neither will be around to miss?

    Imagine trading your own son for Carmelo Anthony.

    That thought alone is comedic gold. That being said, I expect the Clippers deal to get done. I’m also quite hopeful that Phil gets a decent return.

    Phil gets a lot of blame, but it seems people are quick to forget how incompetent our front office has been for the last decade +. I’ve been a Knick fan since 2000 and all I’ve seen was bs “win now” trades over and over. Phil atleast has some respect for the future. No, he’s not a good GM per se. But he’s no where near as bad as you guys seem to think.

    The Clippers are definitely under pressure. They’re capped out, have a clearly-established ceiling in the playoffs, and have two stars who might leave this summer if the team continues to make early exits. The question is whether that pressure has crossed the line into desperation for Doc/Ballmer.

    Desperate teams do what the Nets did in trading several years worth of unprotected picks and pick swaps to Boston. They had one chance to go from middling playoff team to championship and they sold the farm for it. If Doc is convinced that Melo is his only chance to beat Golden State, he may be willing to give us unprotected 2021 and 2023 picks.

    lol I don’t think any GM would consider trading literally half the roster in mid-season.
    I mean, for the Clips, that’s 5 rotation players!

    The problem for Clips is that 3 of those 5 rotation players in that trade stink. Lee and an aging Redick would be a wash over 3 years and, like I said, Jennings/Felton would be fine for CP3’s limited backup minutes versus Rivers. Clips improve depth/quality at SG/SF by that trade. Why wouldn’t Clips like this roster:

    1: Paul/Jennings/Felton
    2: Lee/Holiday
    3: Melo/Kuz
    4: Griffin/Bass
    5: Jordan./Speights

    They could even play some spread PnR with this lineup: CP3/Lee/Holiday/Melo/Jordan

    If Redick is part of the deal, I hope we can work a third team in to take him. He could really help a playoff team, but he’d only hurt our tank. We could get another asset for him.

    I’d be happy with any dross from the Clippers aside from Crawford, who is a terrible player with an awful contract.

    I think the best way to engage the Celts or the Cavs in a trade is to involve them in a three team deal.

    I’d be happy with any dross from the Clippers aside from Crawford, who is a terrible player with an awful contract.

    but just think of the tanking possibilities!
    He’s a crowd favorite. Play him 35 minutes/game and let him throw up 25 shots.
    The contract is bad but it ends next season.

    I’m ok with Crawford, he’s so horrible that a Rose-Crawford backcourt would do wonders for our tank

    OMG a Rose/Crawford backcourt. Isiah would be so proud.

    Just load KP up with some antidepressants and watch the lottery balls come our way.

    Just off the top of my head, the Grizz, Kings, Thunder, and Wiz are all win-now teams that could really use Redick. Phil should bring them in on any Clippers trade.

    LOL. A 2016 backcourt of Rose and Crawford would really be Isiah’s wet dream. Between the two of them it’d be 50 shots, 40 points, 60 points allowed, and 20 wins. What a combo!

    If that happens, we’d have to get Zingis off the court with a series of fake injuries. I can’t imagine a more poisonous duo to play with.

    If we get Crawford in a deal with the Clippers we should extend Rose for one more year.

    The tanking in 2018 will be glorious indeed.

    If that happens, we’d have to get Zingis off the court with a series of fake injuries. I can’t imagine a more poisonous duo to play with.

    Totally! But, truth be told, I wouldn’t play him anyway right now.

    but just think of the tanking possibilities!
    He’s a crowd favorite. Play him 35 minutes/game and let him throw up 25 shots.
    The contract is bad but it ends next season.

    Not it doesn’t. He signed a 3 year deal.

    Not it doesn’t. He signed a 3 year deal.

    The 3rd year is almost completely non guaranteed ($3MM guaranteed)

    Anyone else reading how butt hurt Knicks “fans” are getting over Phil’s treatment of Melo? They’re defending him like it’s their own flesh and blood. Meanwhile Melo is a millionaire living and enjoying a life that these suckers can’t even dream of. But that means nothing, because Phil is a snake apparently.

    OKC is another possible destination for KOQ as well. They were painfully thin already and now Kanter is out 2 months with a broken hand. Even when Kanter comes back, KOQ could start at PF for them instead of the rookie Sabonis.

    The best trades in sports are made by exploiting a team’s desperation. Phil should be on the phone with every GM who’s under pressure to win now and grab the future assets that the team is willing to mortgage.

    (Unfortunately Phil is also under pressure to win now, because we can never have nice things.)

    DRed, are you ok? Last year is only partially guaranteed (3 million). We count on you to be our GM! Don’t overlook things!

    a deal with the clips is going to be complicated…

    there’s no way to do a deal that doesn’t involve crawford and rivers and not much else… and if they deal rivers they are probably going to want jennings with cp3 out and felton as the only pg…. so crawford, rivers and either pierce or wesley johnson.. i’m assuming johnson would be the one jettisoned….

    if they just want lee… then they can do either a straight redick or crawford swap plus some 2020+ first… that’s a lot easier and very doable…

    I love when people come up with these 4 team trade machines. Like they will ever actually happen.

    But let’s be real guys PHIL isn’t a good negotiator. He is about to get bent over in any upcoming deal.

    @41

    Hugo Busto, you’re probably right. When Phil is determined to get rid of someone (Felton, JR), he usually gets taken advantage of. And he probably considers a 2023 unprotected Clippers pick essentially worthless because he’ll be long gone by then.

    I love when people come up with these 4 team trade machines. Like they will ever actually happen.

    It happens once in a while.

    The Patrick Ewing trade was a four way trade between Knicks, Sonics, Lakers and Suns.

    If I’m not mistaken about 15 players changed teams.

    I’d gladly take Crawford if we get the unprotected 2021. We’d win like 5 more games this year assuming we sell some other guys and we’ll still have plenty of room this offseason if we want to use it.

    I’d hold out for two assets. That can be 2021 and 2023, 2021 and Reddick, 2021 and maaaaaybe Rivers (no seriously he’s arguably outperforming his contract!). It’d be hard for me to swallow 2023 and one of those guys since it’s so damn far out but if it came to that I’d still probably do it.

    DRed is hereby being demoted to the DLeague for further training.

    If we trade Melo and acquire Austin Rivers our team will be better for the remainder of this season. Is that what you want?

    Actually trading for Paul Pierce would basically end the franchise due to bad karma.
    Just think how much more free time we’d have!

    expanding on an idea above:
    -Trade melo to the clips, make sure we get back Paul Pearce
    -Play Pearce 48 mins / night. every night.
    -When we play SAC, make Pearce play C against Boogie
    -When we play Hou, GS or OKC, make him play point guard

    that would at least make me feel good.

    This could work:
    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zq69gue

    OKC really doesn’t have the picks to work with. But Payne was good last year and is coming back from a foot injury so he’s been bad and Jennings would constitute an upgrade.

    I really wouldn’t mind making Pierce’s life a living hell lol

    They are not going to give us Austin Rivers. Phil will end up with JJ Reddick, Wesley Johnson, some 1sts further down the line, and Jamal Crawford. I promise you that is what we will end up with if we do a deal with the Clippers. This way Doc Rivers gets to promote his son into the starting line up. We should do something like this, though:

    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=hanpgvt

    Flip Reddick to the Wolves in a 4 team deal with Chicago. This way we get Rubio and maybe we could get that Sacramento 2017 1st if the Bulls really like Gorgui Dieng.

    If you’re GM Bron, do you do this this deal? I would. If you’re the NYK GM, do you do that deal versus the Clippers deal in which we receive 2 firsts, Brice, Rivers? If could flip Kevin this summer for Nets 2017 pick, yes!

    I think that trade would be great for the Wolves. Yeah, they’re not going anywhere but they get vets to put around their youth, they rid themselves of the Rubio contract, and they clear the path for Kris Dunn. The Wolves are a team we want to be worse than us because they already spent a lottery pick on a point guard. Phoenix and Minnesota are the two teams I have no problem being worse than us because they probably don’t want a point guard in this draft.

    Redick to OKC makes the most sense to me. They’ve been looking for a Korver type for years. Morrow’s a 3baller but offers nothing else and now doesn’t even make 3s. If we could get a 1-20 protected first, that would be great or maybe even just two 2nd round picks.

    The problem is Melo has all the leverage. He can say we can talk to Boston, Cleveland, and LA and then change his mind if he wants. We can’t drive the price up with a bidding war because Melo can easily just say he’ll only accept a trade to the Clippers even if we prefer the Boston offer. We should be trying to get a list of teams from him that he’d definitely accept with an understanding that reneging would be shitty, but that’s obviously fickle.

    They are not going to give us Austin Rivers. Phil will end up with JJ Reddick, Wesley Johnson, some 1sts further down the line, and Jamal Crawford. I promise you that is what we will end up with if we do a deal with the Clippers.

    Sounds good to me. We can take Reddick and trade him for a first. Crawford can be our new LVP.

    @53

    And take JR Smith’s contract. There’s no way in Hell that Phil does that after he burned that bridge with a cluster bomb.

    @56

    Well, its never happening then because there’s no way in hell Cleveland trades Love for Melo.

    Rivers Crawford for Melo I don’t think if thattrade will make me happy. It could make a dumb us even more dumber.
    Is there a way we can ship Melo to lac without Crawford? Maybe reddick and rivers? I hate Crawford. It’s like Felton to Calderon plus more years all over again.

    @58

    We already did. None of this preliminary trade work was done without his hidden approval.

    Works for me. As long as whatever deal we do, we get some 1st round picks in return.

    I just wonder if Carmelo is smart enough to not drain his new team of every available non-superstar asset they have, especially considering how it worked out for him in NY. But nah, probably not.

    Is Bargnani available? Someone’s gotta take those shots once #stayMe7o is gone.

    ruruland, where you at? The Carmelo hagiography is nigh.

    I don’t get the Crawford hate. Yeah, he sucks. But the guy is a true pro. Its not like he’s a POS like Derrick Rose who also sucks. He will help us tank and be a good sport about it.

    I think the Clippers talk is a smokescreen. We are trying to pressure other teams like Cleveland and Boston. There is no way Phil can sell a Carmelo for Crawford and Rivers plus 1st rounders in the far future to the public. He needs to save some face and that won’t do it.

    I think our only real hope is Cleveland panicking and trading Love. If they do then I think a trade of:
    Carmelo + Jennings + O’Quinn + protected future 1st for Love + filler then flip Love to Boston.
    http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=zb39rxj

    Since the potential first from the Clippers would be so far in the future, and the Clippers can’t offer much else besides junk, the Knicks should really be holding out at least for swap rights in another year’s draft. Something like this:
    Knicks get:
    Crawford, Redick, Wes Johnson, Brice Johnson, 2021 unprotected first, future swap rights
    Clippers get:
    Melo, Justin Holiday

    Wes Johnson is in the deal just for salary cap purposes. Brice Johnson is a fringe prospect and the Clippers won’t miss him much. The Clips lose two rotation players but gain two in return. Redick is still a fine player, and he could almost certainly be flipped for another asset.

    I want to trade Melo and start the rebuild around Porzingis and Hernangomez as much as anyone else, but I’m not taking back Doc’s dreg players and bad long contracts to do it. I might has well suffer through a couple of more years with Melo. I’ll take back any combination of cap space, picks, or young players on attractive contracts, but I’m not taking crap like Jamal Crawford and I don’t want Austin River either. The only player I’d take back from them is Reddick because he’s an expiring. That’s not going to cut it unless someone else wants The Clip’s dregs and will give us an expiring contract. Anything that involves Crawford is idiot shit unless MAYBE it comes with a terrific pick.

    It amazes me that stat based folks like yourselves seriously think Melo is worth young players and picks and suddenly the Clippers offer + a future 1st that will likely be very solid is not enough.

    I think the talk to anyone but the Clippers is a smokescreen. They’re the only team that would obviously benefit from Melo given that they have a lot of expensive junk to trade. Boston’s offense is already good, they need help with defense and rebounding so it’s not clear that Melo would really do much for them, and I’m positive that Cleveland would be worse if they traded TT or Love for Melo.

    @73 the Clippers trade isn’t enough because Phil wants to keep his job. Can you imagine the amount of hate he would get if he traded Melo for nothing but bad contracts and a 1st that is 4-5 years away. He would be done. I think most likely if the offers don’t improve we keep Carmelo. Address this in the offseason.

    It amazes me that stat based folks like yourselves seriously think Melo is worth young players and picks and suddenly the Clippers offer + a future 1st that will likely be very solid is not enough.

    It’s not about what he’s worth, it’s about what you can get. The Clippers are in a position where they might actually overpay for the guy. Their fans want Melo. Their star PG wants Melo. They have a relatively small window to try to break through in the playoffs before Chris Paul bails and the whole thing is over. They might actually be willing to pay more than market value.

    Imagine that– being the team on the OTHER side of a lopsided trade! Man, that would really be something, huh?

    And take JR Smith’s contract. There’s no way in Hell that Phil does that after he burned that bridge with a cluster bomb.

    Phil would not only take JR, he’d hire Jerry Krause as his GM, he’d let Bron’s posse stay at his Montana ranch, he’d sign malingerer Bargnani, he’d renounce the Triangle IF Knicks could then draft Markelle or Lonzo.

    You don’t think OKC would trade us one of their bigs + a 1st round pick for Melo if the NTC didn’t exist? You don’t think Indiana would offer Thad Young + their 1st if the NTC didn’t exist? Memphis wouldn’t be interested? Sacramento would be falling over themselves to make an offer.

    The No Trade Clause destroyed Melo’s trade value. It’s not that teams don’t think Melo isn’t worth youth and assets; it’s that they won’t engage in conversation because they know that NTC is a deal breaker.

    I think Phil is so strange that he couldn’t care less about public opinion. If he trades Melo, he does that without giving a second thought about anything.

    I’m 100% with Ben R. He can’t get rid of Melo without receiving some immediate gratification.

    The thing is James Dolan won’t sign off on that deal if all we get back is Jamal Crawford and some picks next decade.

    Who gives a shit about hate? I respect Phil for one thing above all else: he makes decisions with almost zero regard for what the plebs in the media and fandom think about him. He’s the only GM we’ve had with the balls to do what he thinks is proper for the long-term of the team. Even if he’s been wrong often, there’s something to having that kind of courage.

    Two future high lottery picks for Melo at this point in his career is a plus. I would take whatever shit contracts LA wants to dump on us the next couple of seasons for those assets. They will be invaluable when KAT wants to come home to NY/NJ area.

    There are options for those willing to think: we could shut Meli down for most of the remainder of this season, rest Porzingis and tank away. We get a higher pick, don’t need to take the Clippers garbage and will have added time to evaluate whether the promise in pkayers like hetnangomez, holiday, koq, etc. is real.

    Trading melo is not necessarily the best or only option.

    @72

    Yeah, you’re right. Maybe I’ve forgotten how much Jamal Crawford really sucks ass.

    @ 79 No, I don’t. OKC is going to give us Adams or Kanter + a 1st rounder for Melo? Just lol

    It amazes me that stat based folks like yourselves seriously think Melo is worth young players and picks and suddenly the Clippers offer + a future 1st that will likely be very solid is not enough.

    Why take back worse players on equally long contracts just to move Melo?

    The idea is to IMPROVE your position with better value players or assets. If all we can get back is Doc’s dregs on similar year contracts, we should stay with Melo and address this again later. We do not HAVE to make a trade just to make a trade. That’s how we get screwed all the time to begin with. The idea is to make GOOD trades. That requires patience.

    I personally think Cleveland needs to trade Love as soon as possible. They need to build a team with one thought and one thought only. How do we beat Golden State? They will glide through the Eastern conference playoffs with or without Love. That’s where Carmelo comes in. Against Golden State and probably no one else he is better than Love. Last year in the Finals Love averaged 26.3 min 8.5 pts and 6.8 rebs on 46.8% TS%. Frankly if not to the Knicks then they need to trade him somewhere because he doesn’t help them in their most important test.

    I don’t get why people act as if the NTC was an option for Phil as if Melo was going to stay without guarantees. But, OK, speculation has become fact. I’ve even read this assumption so much I’m beginning to think it could be real even though its unsubstantiated as hell.

    From my perspective, crying about the NTC is just another way people here want to torture themselves over nothing. We’re about to trade Melo when most here thought it impossible and could even get some good value down the line. This is a major positive.

    @87 That I agree with. I’m working under the assumption that a future 1st rounder would be coming, as well. I pull the trigger on Crawford, Rivers, 1st rounder 100% of the time.

    @90 Exactly. What’s up with posters talking down at others just on the basis of pure speculation?

    If all we can get back is Doc’s dregs on similar year contracts,

    But that isn’t all we’re looking to get. Jesus, does no one think we can get high lottery picks or is it that people here don’t value high lottery picks? I mean, this is a Knicks blog I wouldn’t be surprised if the latter were the case.

    @89

    Its a good point, I would emphasize that to Cleveland. But I doubt they care since they were able to defeat Golden State without Love.

    Future first rounders from the Clips in 2021,22, 0r 23…I can see how a lot of fans would hate this bc they seem so far away. But they really aren’t. And if we got them unprotected (one or hopefully two), that could be a goldmine. We’re talking 3 to 5 seasons from now. CP3 and Melo will be OLD by then and the Clippers could suck. If they did, those picks could be lottery picks.

    Taking on the Clippers dregs doesn’t bother me. People do realize that salaries in a trade have to match, right? We can’t just trade Melo for picks only.

    So we take on some bad contracts and tank the next few seasons. Draft well with the picks we have. If we suck the rest of this year and next that could be two top ten picks plus our second rounders. Then when Porzingis is like 25 we suddenly have more lottery picks from the Clippers (and still our own first rounders too). THAT is how you build a contender.

    Over the next few weeks, LeBron and Doc/CP3 will be scrambling to get Carmelo Anthony and somebody will blink. Somebody in Cleveland or LA will be willing to let go of their 3rd piece and it will be glorious. Phil Jackson will luck into the Brooklyn pick. I can feel it.

    The Most likely Phil deal will be Carmelo for Crawford, Wesley Johnson, and Pierce.

    Then when Porzingis is like 25 we suddenly have more lottery picks from the Clippers (and still our own first rounders too). THAT is how you build a contender.

    HALLELUJAH!

    Over the next few weeks, LeBron and Doc/CP3 will be scrambling to get Carmelo Anthony and somebody will blink. Somebody in Cleveland or LA will be willing to let go of their 3rd piece and it will be glorious. Phil Jackson will luck into the Brooklyn pick. I can feel it.

    Don’t toy with my feelings.

    If phil ended up getting one of BKs picks without giving up KP or Willy (he won’t) he’d immediately go from a D- GM to A- GM

    Farfa: I honestly don’t care at all for cap space.

    agreed…If taking on a bad contract gets us just like an extra 2nd rounder, it’s worth it. The only teams that have any reason to worry about bad contracts are top teams or teams on the verge of being top teams. The only thing cap space gets you is more Joakim Noahs and Courtney Lees, guys who at best give you value at the front of the contract.

    The only reason to value cap space is that it can get us assets by unburdening other teams of bad conttracts.

    Phil Jackson will luck into the Brooklyn pick.

    Yeap Bron knows in his heart that Cavs are not gonna beat GSW. JR stinks this year. Some of the other guys are complacent. They have no rugged center to handle ZaZa or reserve veteran PG. That team needs a shakeup. Melo would be ravenous for a chip if he goes to Cleveland. Courtney Lee’s 3FG% is 43% and he’s done well in playoffs, a clear upgrade over current JR. Jennings and KOQ could take care of PG and Center needs. Holiday/Kuz could give them some youth energy and knock down open looks off Kyrie and Bron feeds.

    C’mon folks, it’s factorial:
    Melo/Lee/KOQ/Jennings/Holiday/Kuz >> Kevin/JR/Jefferson/Liggins/McRae/Andersen

    WOW —- Bron, Kyrie, Melo, Thompson, Frye, Shump, Lee, Korver, KOQ, Jennings, Holiday, Kuz

    HERE

    I’m cool with a Clippers trade if we get Reddick and Rivers. We can flip Reddick to Minnesota and land Rubio. Rivers and Rubio would probably be a good enough guard duo to push us into the playoffs, and they’re young enough (25 and 27 this year) that it wouldn’t piss me off too much.

    What makes anyone think the Clippers look at taking on Melo and his nearly 30M cap hit, the players they need to replace pmus the additional cost of those players and decide they are a much better team?

    Does anyone seriouly think the deeply flawed Melo we no longer want will become Kahwi Leonard by just farting next to Chris Paul?

    Are the Clippers one semi-finished Melo away from a ring?

    Only a wishful and dumb Knicks fan can believe that. And only deluded, dumb Knicks fans think the Clippers believe that and so believe it they will offer draft picks to a desperate Phil Jackson…lol ..

    LOL TROLOLOLOLOLOLOL. Theo went from writing stupid sentences to not even being able to write coherent sentences.

    I’ve noticed that Theo has gone off the deep end since someone pointed out that he and Reub are split personalities of the same person, and Reub is the funny half.

    So you’ve got all these posters over-valuing Melo (just look at all these damn trade machines), but Theo is a troll for (maybe) under-valuing Melo?

    @108

    So you’ve got all these posters over-valuing Melo (just look at all these damn trade machines), but Theo is a troll.

    I fixed it for you.

    At this stage of his career, Melo is a pretty “meh” player. He would still be a valuable piece for the Clippers. You know who is second on the Clippers in FGA? Jamal Crawford. I don’t care what you think of Melo, he’s a huge upgrade over Jamal Crawford in the scoring department. There’s no doubt he makes the Clippers substantially better.

    It’s all about need and fit. Melo to the Clippers makes a lot of sense.

    why on earth would the clips give us JJ Reddick w/ 1 year left? They are not going into win-now mode w/ Melo at the 3 and Crawford as their starting 2.

    Many are arguing that it’s OK to take back 2-3 years in salaries, because rebuilding takes time. If that’s the case, don’t trade Melo now if you can’t get value. And don’t sit him. Play him. Let him get his numbers again, he’s pissed about not making the ASG. Then, try again in the offseason, when he only has 2 years left. Once some FA’s start signing, his salary won’t seem as astronomical. And, you will have some teams who miss out on FAs and are in need.

    You can’t maximize value on a deal if you deal when you are desperate.

    You can’t maximize value on a deal if you deal when you are desperate.

    “no-trade clause”

    @112 the problem is he could also blow out his knee again and then the dream is forever dead. I agree there’s no urgency to trade him this second, that’s why I’d hold firm at two assets. If such an offer comes along and Melo is willing to do it, it’s better to accelerate the rebuilding process than try to hold out for something better and risk getting nothing.

    Right now is the perfect time to start rebuilding. If we can put ourselves in Lonzo Ball/Ntilikina/Smith Jr/Tatum territory by tanking then we would be in great shape going foward.

    Plus trading Melo sets off a chain effect that allows us to trade KOQ/Lee/Jennings before their value depreciates.

    Let him get his numbers again, he’s pissed about not making the ASG.

    Assuming he gets his numbers again, you really want to keep him on this team after all of the drama that’s ensured the past few weeks? I sure as shit don’t.

    Then, try again in the offseason, when he only has 2 years left. Once some FA’s start signing, his salary won’t seem as astronomical. And, you will have some teams who miss out on FAs and are in need.

    We have a better chance of trading him for a bigger bonanza at the deadline than we do in the offseason. Teams like the Cavs and Clippers are desperate to become contenders while they are winning and in the hunt.

    Some variation of this Clippers deal will happen I bet.

    Since we’d be doing the Clips two favors– giving them Melo and unburdening them of Jamal Crawford’s horrendous contract– it is fair to ask for something more than just one first rounder that we don’t get until five drafts from now. I would insist at the very least on swap rights on a second pick. It would be an A+ deal if Phil was able to swing JJ Redick and then flip him for a 2017 or 2018 first, but the Clips are probably going to want to hold onto Redick since he is still one of the best snipers in the league.

    Many are arguing that it’s OK to take back 2-3 years in salaries, because rebuilding takes time. If that’s the case, don’t trade Melo now.

    Those are sesnsible words, but delusion has overtaken a lot of naive, short-sighted posters and all of a sudden trading Melo is the solution to all that ails the Knicks.

    They propose the most absurd trades where the Knicks are always fleecing other teams because… because!

    Melo is no longer a good player (why are getting rid of him, anyway?) but must be seen by other teams as the missing piece for the championship puzzle because…bacause!

    Melo has the NTC but Phil has the leverage because… because!

    Clippers know it’s them or nothing for the Knicks and Catmelo, but Phil can demand assets and draft picks because… because!

    Total delusion.

    Um, because we suck.

    No we don’t, we’re 3rd in the Atlantic Division.

    #alternative facts

    It would be an A+ deal if Phil was able to swing JJ Redick and then flip him for a 2017 or 2018 first, but the Clips are probably going to want to hold onto Redick since he is still one of the best snipers in the league.

    The reports are it is Clippers who want to swap Lee for Redick in any Melo deal. JJ’s WS/48 has dropped from .154 to .113 this season, his VORP from 1.5 to .6. He’s in decline and about to turn 33yo. Plus he’s gonna wanna be paid this summer. His current salary is relatively low to make #’s work if some team like OKC is willing to take him in exchange for a late 1st round pick or a couple of 2nds, presuming he’d be willing to re-sign there this summer.

    And why is everybody writing off Brice? Kid’s only 22yo and hasn’t played a single NBA minute yet. Brice, two Clipper 1sts, whatever Redick brings, Rivers would be a decent haul. Of course, Nets 2017 1st would be much better. Stay tuned. Bron’s a very smart guy. Melo’s a better third wheel than Kevin but Kevin’s a better 1st or second wheel than Melo. Kevin would be happier in Boston: Isaiah/Bradley/Crowder/Kevin/Horford. Bron could net a haul in addition to Melo that would make a GSW series very competitive.

    No we don’t, we’re 3rd in the Atlantic Division.

    3 games out of the playoffs!

    knickerblogger has been part of my morning routine for quite some time…it’s usually a given that something someone writes will have me laughing like crazy:

    I have to give Phil Jackson credit. I don’t mean this as meanly as it comes out, but he is like a cockroach or a rat

    that was hell a funny…

    kinda bummed to see ‘ol ptmilo hasn’t kicked in yet today…normally in the morning i’ll make my way through a 100 or more posts – without fail, if ptmilo has posted something i’ll be saying to myself for the next few hours: “what the fuck did that mean!?!?…
    for example:
    ptmiloJanuary 23, 2017 at 9:37 pm

    Having holiday and Willy on this team is why you have to throw your old blender when you buy a vitamix so you don’t feel so dumb

    ptmiloJanuary 25, 2017 at 10:21 pm

    I feel like the venture cap fund manager who was all like ‘my portfolio sucks right now but at least I have theranos’

    ptmiloJanuary 26, 2017 at 8:44 pm

    Larry Sanders just tweeted he wants back in

    ugh, I can’t find the latest quote that had me scratching my head for a few days…

    a lot of times I’ll just sit there staring at the words thinking to my self – there must some deeper meaning to all that they write; and, i’m just not getting it…

    I’m starting to wonder though now if ptmilo might really be some “watson” like computer which just randomly puts together sequences of words and throws them out there – or, maybe like some super chimp sitting at a keyboard, again putting random words together in some semblance of order…

    Anyways – I hope you keep doing your thing, cuz, boring is bad – and, you are most certainly rarely boring…

    Chicago is in the 8th spot. We could deal Melo for Rondo, Mirotic and a 1. Rondo is signed for 1 less year than Melo and will make $10M less than him next year.

    @121

    “Brice, two Clipper 1sts, whatever Redick brings, Rivers would be a decent haul.”

    So not only do you have the Clippers blatantly overpaying us for Melo, but you also go on to refer to this fleecing as only a “decent haul”. Is this even real life…?

    Rondo is non guaranteed for next year. If Melo would accept a trade to Chicago and they want him they’d be a great option. I doubt either of those things are true though.

    The Clippers are the sweet spot in terms of Melo’s value. He would have more value to them than to any other team simply due to their spot in the standings, the makeup of their roster and their timetable.

    He’d be replacing Jamal Crawford as the Clips’ volume scorer. Crawford is second on that team in FGA and has a bigger role there than some might realize. And at this stage of their careers, Melo is a far more productive scorer than Crawford. It would be a significant upgrade for them, and the packages they’re talking about are based on draft picks that are way out in the future.

    Depending on the details, Melo to the Clippers is a trade that could end up working out for both teams. It makes sense.

    @JK47 Yes, you’ve made some good points ITT, but you haven’t specified what you think a realistic haul would like. I also think the Clippers deal is inevitable. However, in no reality do I see us getting multiple first round picks from them.

    And Doc Rivers, who has a word on these matters, will push for a trade where his son goes to a shithole called the NY Knicks because… because!

    Austin Rivers has called his relationship with his father basically non-existent until he was an adult. I think Doc’s 2008 players probably look at him as a father-figure about as much as Austin does.

    Also, bring on Austin Rivers because this dude loves to tank.

    The commenting here is a little comical.
    The narrative is Melo is not a great, even not a good player, and is a shadow of his former self athletically.

    But Jackson is supposed to secure a king’s ransom…

    Also, bring on Austin Rivers because this dude loves to tank.

    Why the hate for Austin? He’s a respectable reserve PG. He’s only 24yo and his TS% and WS/48 have risen every year. Yes he’s overpaid at the moment but not so much that I wouldn’t want him in a trade given we’re starting what looks like a semi-rebuild. I’d be content with Rubio/Rivers at the 1 if we don’t land one of the top PG’s in this draft.

    chrisk06811: Many are arguing that it’s OK to take back 2-3 years in salaries, because rebuilding takes time. If that’s the case, don’t trade Melo now if you can’t get value. And don’t sit him. Play him. Let him get his numbers again, he’s pissed about not making the ASG. Then, try again in the offseason, when he only has 2 years left. Once some FA’s start signing, his salary won’t seem as astronomical. And, you will have some teams who miss out on FAs and are in need.

    You can’t maximize value on a deal if you deal when you are desperate.

    The problem is however much you might improve the return by being patient, you’re effectively also swapping like a #4-7 pick for a #10-13 pick. There’s often a world of difference in terms of quality of the player you get between those two. Put another way, say the Knicks do nothing and finish 12th. I doubt you could package Melo + #12 pick to move up that much in the draft. So the pick improvement alone basically justifies the trade even if we get next to nothing in return.

    http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/1289-austin-rivers

    He was not respectable until this year, and even then, he’s owed $11.8M and $12.6M over the next two years.

    And he’s still not good. I don’t know how you can look at those numbers and think he’s respectable. Even if he were on a rookie contract, you’d be thinking of him as “meh.”

    It’s possible that Austin’s jump in 3PT% is a legitimate improvement. He’s young, afterall. He could’ve worked on it a bunch in the offseason, etc. If it regresses though, he’s pretty much back to being the terrible coach’s son we all know and love.

    if a deal happens (still think it wont personally) itd be something like

    lac gets melo, justin holiday
    nyk gets jamal [or austin], okc first rounder, some okc player (idk, roberson or lauvergne or some shit)
    okc gets: o quinn, kuzminskas or lance, jj reddick

    If we do a trade with LA we need to fleece them hard. They have no leverage. They are the 4th best team in their conference, no way to improve themselves and 3 of their 4 best players are free agents next year.

    They need a player like Carmelo more than we need to trade Carmelo. I think that’s what everyone needs to remember. We are not bargaining from a desperate place. If nothing sounds good we keep Carmelo.

    LA trash and a pick 5 years from now is not enough. If that’s the best we can do then keep him, shut him down after the All star break, trade O’Quinn for a mid round 1st, trade Lee for some kind of asset, do whatever we can to get Rubio and wait till next year.

    And he’s still not good. I don’t know how you can look at those numbers and think he’s respectable. Even if he were on a rookie contract, you’d be thinking of him as “meh.”He was not respectable until this year, and even then, he’s owed $11.8M and $12.6M over the next two years.

    I said he’s a “respectable reserve“. Here’s the year-to-year trend in his WS/48: -.03, .02, .04, .06, .085. His VORP’s also trended up each year, now at .3. He’s overpaid but cap ain’t what it used to be so I’m not deterred. We need 1 guards and I’d rather one of them be a 24yo who’s improving than Rose or Jennings.

    The commenting here is a little comical.
    The narrative is Melo is not a great, even not a good player, and is a shadow of his former self athletically.

    But Jackson is supposed to secure a king’s ransom…

    Delusion has overtaken the blog. Melo sucks but the Clippers (and everyone else!) have to see him as the missing piece of the championship puzzle!

    Because… because!

    I don’t need or want Austin Rivers in this deal. He has mostly stunk in his career, and I don’t want him to be considered one of the “assets” the Knicks would be getting.

    I’d rather hold out for some other future asset, even if it’s way in the future. Just give us a bunch of junk, the 2021 first rounder and swap rights to another pick, say 2020 or 2022.

    Clippers are not stupid: they know Melo is not making them competitive with GS or even the Rockets. Why would they mortgage the future on a player clearly on the decline? Why give up future picks for a shot at being 3rd in the west?

    Yeah, Rivers is having by far a career year and isn’t even that good anyway. He barely passes and is more of a SG offensively than a PG. This is his 5th year in the league already. He’s just as likely to regress to his previous crappiness as he is to maintain his current mediocrity.

    I’d take him as part of a deal, but not if he’s supposed to be an asset. On his contract, he’s value-neutral at best.

    The Clippers should sell their assets and start an immediate rebuild but they’re not. The Clippers need to keep Paul and Griffin around next year or they are hosed. No pick this year, no pick in 2019 and a team that consists of DeAndre Jordan and a bunch of scrubs. That is basketball hell.

    If they’re not going to sell at the deadline they sure as hell need to buy. Their hope would be that having Carmelo keeps Paul around and having Paul keeps Griffin around. It’s a bad plan but unless they trade Griffin at the deadline and reboot their team I don’t see a better path for them.

    Forget about Austin Rivers – he’s not very good and his contract is not good, either.

    The big picture is the Knicks will only get garbage for Melo and might be the ones forced to sweeten the pot with an asset or two!

    It’s not like Phil is a shrewd negotiator…. lol

    It’s rare for me to find myself encouraging any kind of optimism, but the Knicks have more leverage than people seem to think. The Clippers would clearly get better as a result of a trade for Melo (Jamal Crawford shoots 11 times a game). There’s no particular reason we have to trade him right now–Phil can say we’re happy to have him for the duration of his contract, that was the original idea after all. If the Clippers turn down a trade for Carmelo Anthony because they don’t want to surrender a first rounder five drafts from now and then they predictably go down in the first or second round, a lot of their fans will be wondering what the big deal was.

    Phil should draw a line in the sand at two legitimate assets. The Clippers post-big 3 future is already bleak, this is their sole opportunity to make something of the present.

    @ 146 – Yup. And the fact that there are talks with the Cavs and Boston means that we could include them on a deal too. If we’re cleaning house we all know KQ and Jennings and Lee are expendable. Those guys all have some usefulness to varying degrees for the above mentioned teams and The Clippers. We could get a three way deal going with Boston and the Clips and get multiple draft picks back. Maybe not that awesome nets pick but we could get some first rounders. And if we’re willing to take back a couple of bad contracts, and why now since we’re sucking anyways, we can ask for more.

    We have leverage here bc we don’t HAVE to do anything. We suck with or without Melo, so if the deals out there are bad, don’t do them. Letting Melo play out and walk would mean no draft picks for him but it also isn’t the worst outcome in this situation.

    . If the Clippers turn down a trade for Carmelo Anthony because they don’t want to surrender a first rounder five drafts from now and then they predictably go down in the first or second round, a lot of their fans will be wondering what the big deal was.

    Of equal or greater concern is the fact that they can’t and won’t go far with Melo. Nobody in the NBA is a Melo away from the championship.
    So, why give up future assets for nothing?

    I agree that it’s highly unlikely that Melo puts the Clippers ahead of the Warriors, but there’s no arguing the fact that he makes them better (if only because of how awful Crawford is). That’s not easy to find for a team in the Clippers’ cap situation. This is pretty much their only opportunity to make a clear upgrade. I’d love to see Doc Rivers explain to season ticket holders that he turned it down because it might come back to bite them in five years. Hell, will Doc even still be coaching/GMing at that point?

    I agree that it’s highly unlikely that Melo puts the Clippers ahead of the Warriors, but there’s no arguing the fact that he makes them better (if only because of how awful Crawford is).

    It would not be a Melo-for-Crawford trade. There is far more going on…

    Not that I want Austin Rovers (imo he’s still bad, just not as bad as he used to be), but does anyone actually think Doc is going include his son in a deal that moves him from a contender to a multi year rebuild situation in NY?

    If the Knicks work with the Clips, they are going to want to include Crawford. IMHO, any deal that includes Crawford IS A NON STARTER THAT IS PURE IDIOT SHIT unless it includes a GREAT pick. The idea here is to REBUILD. You don’t rebuild by getting rid of one older player on a bad contract and taking back an even older and worse player on a different bad contract. I would just stay with Melo and ride it out until either someone comes calling or we can move him at a later date.

    . I’d love to see Doc Rivers explain to season ticket holders that he turned it down because it might come back to bite them in five years.

    Easy: we turned it down because Melo is not a difference-maker anymore – look at the mess in NY. We can and will improve our team, but Meli is not a solution. We can do much better without sacrificing our future.

    Chris Paul had led the Clippers to a sky-high offensive rating this season. He’s a fucking KILLER player. Dude has a .291 WS48, mainly because of his .611 TS% and 50.1 AST%. They were one of the truly best offensive teams in the league before he got hurt.

    This was despite the fact that Jamal Crawford was second on the team in FGA. Crawford has a .491 TS% on 23.4% USG%. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that if you remove that and replace it with Melo’s .545 TS% on 29.1 USG% you have just made your offense a hell of a lot better. With everybody healthy, Paul-Redick-Melo-Griffin-Jordan is a deadly offense.

    Is it enough to win them a title? Probably not. Golden State is awfully damn good. Is there a better move they can make, considering their lack of assets? I don’t know about that.

    Crawford IS A NON STARTER THAT IS PURE IDIOT SHIT unless it includes a GREAT pick. The idea here is to REBUILDYou don’t rebuild by getting rid of one older player on a bad contract and taking back an even older and worse player on a different bad contract.

    Crawford’s contract effectively expires at the end of next season (3m buyout). How is that onerous? It won’t stop us in the least from handing out Ron Baker type contracts next season.

    Not that I want Austin Rovers (imo he’s still bad, just not as bad as he used to be), but does anyone actually think Doc is going include his son in a deal that moves him from a contender to a multi year rebuild situation in NY?

    His son might get more minutes because it is a rebuilding situation. Including Rivers in a deal allows Clips to get additional players like Lee/Holiday/Kuz/Jennings who could also help them. It is apparently the Clips who want to swap Redick for Lee. They could further improve their chip chances by including Rivers in any deal. But it’s up to them if they want to go that route and deal could still go through whether he’s part of it or not.

    Crawford pretty much has to be part of any deal, so I think that’s more or less a given at this point (if the trade happens, that is). And I’m fine with it, for the reasons noted (he helps them lose, and they need to lose right now).

    Unless Redick is somehow involved, the players don’t really matter. It’s all about the picks. So it’s really kind of hard to speculate about the trade, as it all boils down to what kind of picks they get and there has been no word about picks at all either way. Heck, there’s been no word beyond “The Knicks would be willing to deal Melo to the Clippers without getting Griffin back.” Hopefully they A. do the deal and B. get some picks!

    Redick for Lee would be a great trade, and I would do that by itself if it was offered. Again, it makes sense for both teams: Redick is a free agent and may command more money in the offseason than the salary Lee makes now. The Clippers lock in a competent NBA shooting guard at a reasonable price that coincides with their window. The Knicks would likely be able to flip Redick for a quality asset, as Reddick would certainly have value to a contender– just about anybody can use a sniper of Redick’s quality.

    @153

    So, it turns out the Clippers are, indeed, one Melo away from toppling Golden State. And how do we know that? Because he is not as bad as perennial 6th man Jamal Crawford!

    Hilarious!

    Theo, keep stuffing that strawman. He literally fucking said the trade probably wouldn’t make the Clippers better than Golden State.

    Is it enough to win them a title? Probably not. Golden State is awfully damn good. Is there a better move they can make, considering their lack of assets? I don’t know about that.

    buh, look at this idiot who thinks the Clippers are a Melo away.

    vegas has the bobcats at +1 tonight (they’ve lost 2 in a row and 7 out of the last 10)…

    i would imagine we’re in for a bit of ugly basketball again this evening (kind of the norm i guess)…should be “competitive” though…

    who knows whom will be playing tonight…i imagine hornacek wouldn’t mind losing one of the bigs via trade so he can get some guys consistent minutes…or dumping rose or jennings or both to be able to put a consistent defender on the perimeter…

    hopefully, we go back to benching rose in the 4th…kind of want to see him sitting on the bench with the towel wrapped over his head, marbury style…

    i enjoy watching our younger guys play (warts and all), it’s just a lot more entertaining…really hoping we clean house soon (if it happens at all)…

    man, it seems like every statement concerning the knicks has some kind of qualifier attached to it…

    So, it turns out the Clippers are, indeed, one Melo away from toppling Golden State.

    Knickerblogger is one poster less from being a tremendous website.

    I’ve tried on the trade machine to get Felder for Jennings. It’s harder than it seems despite Jennings’ small salary. I don’t think the Cavs could do it without giving away someone they actually use.

    Forgot we actually had games to play.

    like every season it seems we’re at the point again where it gets weird…when they play well in the back of your mind you think: “”fuck there goes are chance for getting a decent pg”…when they play poorly (which happens a whole lot) you think: “c’mon, get your shit together team”…

    lately i keep getting the image in my head of dolan screaming out to all knick fans: “are you not entertained”….

    Theo, keep stuffing that strawman. He literally fucking said the trade probably wouldn’t make the Clippers better than Golden State.

    You talk about strawman? lol

    I’m not the one pretending Melo, a starting power forward / small forward is replacing the production of a bench player who plays shooting guard. All while reaching the conclusion it could put the Clippers in a position to beat GS!

    Truly stupid, but good stuff for those who don’t think much.

    I’m not the one pretending Melo, a starting power forward / small forward is replacing the production of a bench player who plays shooting guard.

    He’d be taking the shots Crawford was taking, moron. God, you talk out of your ass more than anybody on this blog and that is saying a lot.

    I’ve tried on the trade machine to get Felder for Jennings. It’s harder than it seems despite Jennings’ small salary. I don’t think the Cavs could do it without giving away someone they actually use.

    Ah, that sucks. I can’t get the trade machine to work. Who else needs a competent backup pg?

    He’d be taking the shots Crawford was taking, moron. God, you talk out of your ass more than anybody on this blog and that is saying a lot.

    No. He would be taking the shots of the player he replaces in the starting lineup.

    Try refuting this one, Einstein.

    Some of you guys are so dumb…lol…

    Al Buckets thinks that his pal Melo won’t waive the NTC. Let’s hope that Al Buckets’ insight into human behavior is as bad as his end of game decision-making was as a Knick.

    We need 1 guards and I’d rather one of them be a 24yo who’s improving than Rose or Jennings.

    If I had to pick from stomach, pancreatic or skin cancer, I’d pick skin cancer. But best of all: no cancer at all.

    Al Buckets thinks that his pal Melo won’t waive the NTC. Let’s hope that Al Buckets’ insight into human behavior is as bad as his end of game decision-making was as a Knick.

    Clips have the nicer location for Melo and his wife but the Cavs would give him a greater chance at that elusive chip since Cleveland would only have to beat GSW while Clips would have to defeat GSW and Cavs. I think Melo in that instance might choose Cavs over Clips. If I were Melo, I’d be talking to Bron. There’s a Cavs/NYK/Celtics trade that would make every team very happy.

    Can we please be civil in our discourse? We’re all smart here. There are no morons here. This is a great site!

    Man if we could swing a trade with the Cavs and Boston where Cavs get Melo, Boston gets Love and we get that sweet sweet Nets pick, I would be ecstatic.

    I’d look to move Melo, KQ, Jennings, Lee, and possibly Holiday to make that happen. Although I’d love to hang on to Holiday or use him in a separate trade. But if we’re trading Melo we might as well clean house to get as many picks as possible. The Nets pick plus maybe a Cavs late first rounder or a boat load of second rounders sounds nice to me. I’ll take back some shitty players/contracts too. Getting that Nets pick should be Phil’s goal cause then we could possibly have a top 3 pick this year and a top 10 pick with our own pick. Plus next year we would suck so that’s a top pick too. Now you’re looking at 2 seasons from now with Zinger, Willie H and 3 rookies who were top 10 or top 5 picks. That’s the start of something right there.

    I wonder if we trade everybody of value on our team except KP and Willy if that would get us Brooklyn’s pick from the Celtics and a pick from the Cavs, as #174 is suggesting? I believe that Melo, Lee, KOQ, Rose, Holiday, Jennings, Kuz should be enough to get that done. Celts could get Love and KOQ while the Cavs add Melo, Jennings or Rose, and Lee and/or Holiday. We could also pick up a few young maybes in the process at the same time like Felder and Jackson.

    @ 175 – this is what I’m saying! Melo himself is an enticing upgrade for a contending team like the Cavs. But they also said they need another PG (Jennings) and could probably use a shooting guard like Holiday and/or Lee. I want to keep the Kuz though but hey, if that’s what it takes, I do it. KP and Willie H are the only ones who I want to keep.

    Send out everyone to get that Nets pick and additional picks and young players. Would definitely need to take some garbage back to make salaries all work but screw it. We’re blowing this shit up.

    I don’t think that Boston would trade the 2017 Nets Pick for Cousins. Maybe but not definitely. They certainly are not trading the pick for 32 year old Carmelo Anthony, who also kills all their cap space. That is just a pipe dream. Maybe their pick in ’18 or ’19 or the 2019 Memphis pick but not the chance to get the 1st pick in ’17 or ’18.

    ESPN annoyingly reported today that the Celtics said that they’re not interested in Melo.

    Can we please be civil in our discourse? We’re all smart here. There are no morons here. This is a great site!

    Shared.

    Yeah, I saw that report about the Celtics. But, if the price drops to Amir Johnson/Jerebko or Crowder/filler and the Memphis pick in 2019 and/or their pick in ’18 doesn’t Boston have to consider that? Cap flexibility is nice but Melo should improve their chances against the Cavs/Raptors.

    Many of you are insane.
    -The nets pick that the Celts have is so amazingly valuable. They aren’t giving that up unless they flat out rape someone. Melo for 3 years isn’t cutting it for them.
    -nobody is giving us a pick in the top 7 for any deal involving Melo. The teams that might want him don’t have pics that high.
    -LAC isn’t giving us Reddick in place of Rivers PLUS a pick. They only want Melo to win now. Trading your SG and starting Jamal Crawford isn’t that.
    -No contender is trading 3 or more rotation players at the deadline. You can’t win with that much churn.

    You simply can’t state that Melo is lazy, selfish and over-paid, with a NTC and a salary that makes him very hard to deal AND state that we should get some haul back for him.

    @ 182 – my understanding was that Lee would be included in a Clippers deal. And my Boston/Cavs trade meant Boston gets Love and someone else like KQ.

    Also, unlike some here I think Melo is still a very good player. The selfish and lazy narrative is so tired and old and not true. Dude just dropped 28 in a quarter. A contending team would be more than happy to take him if they can get him. The Media and some fans might think he’s overrated and worthless. Coaches know this is all BS bc he plays in NYC and everyone hates us.

    Crowder is only making $6M. You need a lot of filler to make that deal work. I’m not sure the Celts would feel Melo is much of a step up from Crowder anyway.

    @ 182 – I think they would trade Reddick (if necessary) if they got Courtney Lee to back too. Reddick is a FA at the end of the year and will be looking for a big payday. Clips already have 3 big contracts, 4 if you include Anthony so they may be willing to make that swap.

    Can we please be civil in our discourse? We’re all smart here. There are no morons here. This is a great site!

    i’d say most posters here are consistently more on than more off…

    not to mention – there may be an argument for questioning any knickerbloggers’s intelligence for sticking it out as a knick fan through thick and exceedingly thin…

    seriously though reub – why would you ever want to dissuade folks from anonymously making disparaging remarks towards relative strangers…i thought that was why the whole internet thing was created…

    please, let us all continue with the “genius” jerk off that is fantasizing about some trades and other shit that’ll never happen…

    oh, lord help me – i’m feeling an urge to travel down dark paths…

    clippers can’t do a melo and lee deal without giving up one of the big 3 since it’s about 41mm worth of salaries….

    @181: Celtics apparently really want a center. So I can see them stating their disinterest.

    @182: I really like WillyBilly, but what if you dangled him + O’Quinn or Noah for that Brooklyn pick + filler? Is that too crazy? Is WillyBilly untouchable enough that you’d keep him if you believed trading him begins to get you that Nets pick this June?

    @187 Trade machine say Rivers/Crawford/Wesley and Reddick would work for those two.

    You’re right, they would need to add Johnson (12), Crowder (6,286,408), and Jerebko (5) to get the Celtics there. But your other point about the C’s not thinking Melo is an upgrade to Crowder (especially w/ the added salary) is probably right.

    Or we could just acquire Rubio

    is this what happens when Reub stops being a troll for just a second

    My ideal outcome that has a slight chance of happening is Melo Lee and Jennings for Crawford Redick, Rivers, Johnson Brice and a unprotected 2021

    Followed by flipping KOQ for Demetrius Jackson and James Young or a pick from Boston or KOQ and Jennings (if he wasn’t a clipper) to OKC for Cam Payne

    Followed by flipping Rose for Rubio Pek and Jones (Jones if possible but not a deal breaker if not included.)

    Redick to whatever team would be willing to take him

    Lineups would be
    PG: Rubio, Rivers, 1-2 of Jones/Jackson/Payne
    SG: Crawford (tanktacular!), Ron Baker
    SF: Kuz/Holiday, Lance (tank commander)
    PF: KP, Brice
    C: Noah, Willy, KP, Pek

    Cut Sasha and Ndour

    Not horrible. Plus whatever picks we add that year.

    Who knows how this will pan out but I’m pretty sure Melos going to the clippers.

    Willy looks like he’s going to be really good but if you get that BK pick I think you pounce.

    That won’t happen though

    They have no rugged center to handle ZaZa

    Tristan Thompson, dude. If he’s not a banger, no one is.

    clippers can’t do a melo and lee deal without giving up one of the big 3 since it’s about 41mm worth of salaries….

    @187 Trade machine say Rivers/Crawford/Wesley and Reddick would work for those two..

    Here’s a trade that doesn’t include Rivers but swaps Redick and Lee but is impractical. But here’s a better trade which makes more sense for NYK and Clippers despite JK47’s and Jowles’ harrumphing about Rivers. That’s the deal that allows both NYK and Clips to extract max value given their different goals.

    “is this what happens when Reub stops being a troll for just a second”

    I ask for civil discourse and instead we get this from Cock Jowles. Sad!

    Can we all at least agree that we need a great game from Melo tonight? That would help both
    the tank and the non-tank.

    But here’s a better trade which makes more sense for NYK and Clippers despite JK47’s and Jowles’ harrumphing about Rivers. That’s the deal that allows both NYK and Clips to extract max value given their different goals.

    Sorry copied wrong trade. This trade works best for both teams. We get Brice, 2 unprotected firsts, Redick 3-way first or second pick(s), Rivers. Look at how win now Clips end up:

    1: CP3/Felton/Jennings
    2: Lee/Holiday
    3: Melo/Mbah a Moute/Kuz
    4: Griffin/Bass
    5: Jordan/Speights

    It’s a win-win trade!

    We need to all cross our fingers that Melo stays healthy.

    I’d be fine with taking Crawford for another year, but please not JR Smith. Please. God. No.

    And don’t trade Kuz!

    @199 I agree that this can happen. Unfortunately for us, we will have to wait 3 to 5 years to reap much benefit from it.

    I was just watching tape of Justin Patton of Creighton and would add him to any short list of top prospects at just 19 yrs old. He’s really good, but not a PG. We’ll get a nice player out of this draft even without tanking I say again.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sucSwzQN0c8

    I would still rather trade some combination of Rose/Lee/Noah for Rubio and just acquire a top player in the offseason without tanking.

    P.S. I stole this from Briggs on UltimateKnicks.com to give proper credit

    Another perspective: If I were Austin Rivers’ father and knew that he would be stuck behind Chris Paul for another 3-5 years (assuming Paul resigns), I might actually like the idea of sending him to a rebuilding Knicks team where he’s instantly the best point guard and will be playing big minutes with Porzingis and whomever they get in the lottery this year.

    If Bos wanted a center so bad that they MIGHT dangle that pick, they would trade with Philly for Noel

    This Just In
    ESPN reports that the Clippers and Knicks continue to discuss a deal that would ship Anthony to Los Angeles without returning any of the Clippers’ Big 3 to New York. But the teams have been unable to develop a trade that works for both parties, leading to the search for a third partner.

    A major factor in the disagreement, according to ESPN, is the Knicks’ unwillingness to take on the remainder of Crawford’s three-year, $42 million contract. In addition, the Clippers are hesitant to part ways with Redick, ESPN reports.

    > So it looks like Clips want to keep Redick or Knicks are unwilling to include Lee in deal?
    > I don’t understand how you rebuild but are unwilling to take Crawford’s contract for one year and then use the 3m buyout for the final year. Makes no sense.
    > Maybe NYK are trying to get a 3rd team to take Clip picks and Knicks get somebody sooner?

    My guess is the Knicks are hoping they can send a couple seconds to somebody (Brooklyn or Philly) to take on Crawford, but they’ll do it if nothing emerges

    So it looks like Clips want to keep Redick or Knicks are unwilling to include Lee in deal?

    The former sounds a lot more likely than the latter.

    I don’t understand how you rebuild but are unwilling to take Crawford’s contract for one year and then use the 3m buyout for the final year. Makes no sense.

    Yeah, that’s just bonkers. Then again, remember how Phil wouldn’t even entertain the idea of taking Boozer’s one year of his deal in a theoretical Melo sign and trade back in the day?

    Maybe NYK are trying to get a 3rd team to take Clip picks and Knicks get somebody sooner?

    Maybe. It’s a real big ass mystery right now. It better not be, “I need as much cap room as soon as I can get it!” Stop it with the cap room! You don’t need cap room!

    I hope to god that’s a negotiating stance. Just suffer the Crawford contract for a year if it means bringing back actual assets and moving on from Melo. Once Jamal’s expiring, he’s actually a nice trade chip with the lowish guaranteed salary.

    I think its possible that we are looking to trade Melo as part of a retooling for this season and not 2021.

    Seriously, after bitching and whining about having to take Jamal Crawford’s contract on you guys are now criticizing Phil for not wanting to take him a trade deal? C’mon y’all.

    Seriously, after bitching and whining about having to take Jamal Crawford’s contract on you guys are now criticizing Phil for not wanting to take him a trade deal? C’mon y’all.

    The people complaining about taking on Crawford’s contract are not the same ones complaining about Jackson not wanting to take on Crawford’s contract.

    Phil wants Rubio and is hoping to involve Minny.

    Or he’s stalling and hoping that Lebron will force Cleveland to do something really stupid…

    🙂

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