Knicks Morning News (2017.01.24)

  • [NYTimes] Knicks 109, Pacers 103: For Knicks, Close Game Against Pacers Is No Surprise. But a Win?
    (Tuesday, January 24, 2017 5:17:26 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony scored 26 points, including a go-ahead jumper during the final minute, as the Knicks beat the Pacers for an important, if ungraceful, victory.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. This Week: All-Star Starters, Spurs-Raptors, Rozier’s Shot
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 7:16:56 PM)

    The Spurs visit Toronto on Tuesday with a 34-9 record but not much buzz; Terry Rozier had Celtics fans talking with a clutch shot against Portland.

  • [NYTimes] Keeping Score: Why the Knicks Struggle to Win the Close Ones
    (Tuesday, January 24, 2017 2:34:56 AM)

    The defense has been woeful for a team that has lost 13 of its last 17 games, and three strong scorers have struggled in the final minutes.

  • [NYTimes] Michael H. Goldberg, 73, Lawyer Who Bridged A.B.A. and N.B.A., Dies
    (Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:51:24 AM)

    Goldberg served as general counsel for the American Basketball Association during its final years and headed the N.B.A.’s coaches’ union for almost four decades.

  • [ESPN] Tuesday’s Knicks News: Anthony hopes he gets picked for All-Star team
    (Tuesday, January 24, 2017 5:37:25 AM)

    Tuesday’s Knicks News: Anthony hopes he gets picked for All-Star team

  • [ESPN] Knicks ‘probably would’ve quit, called it a year’ had they lost Monday
    (Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:21:34 AM)

    Knicks ‘probably would’ve quit, called it a year’ had they lost Monday

  • [SNY Knicks] Anthony hits go-ahead jumper, Knicks hang on to beat Pacers, 109-103
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 11:16:06 PM)

    After blowing a 16-point fourth-quarter lead, Carmelo Anthony hit a go-ahead jumper with under 30 seconds to play as the New York Knicks hung on to beat the Indiana Pacers, 109-103, on Monday at Bankers Life Fieldhouse.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks at Pacers
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 7:05:40 PM)

    The Knicks (19-26) head to Indiana to battle the Pacers (22-21) on Monday.

  • [SNY Knicks] 3 Issues facing Knicks: late game failures, Noah, and motivating Jennings
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 4:15:33 PM)

    In this week’s edition of 3 Keys, SNY.tv’s Keith Schlosser takes a look at the Knicks’ late game failures, the pressure coming off Joakim Noah, and motivating Brandon Jennings.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks travel to Indiana to battle Pacers
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 4:30:48 PM)

    The Knicks head to Indiana to face off against the Pacers on Monday.

  • [SNY Knicks] Melo not worked up about possibility of missing the All-Star Game
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 2:45:29 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony will be content with a seven-day break if the coaches around the league decide not to vote him in as a reserve in the upcoming NBA All-Star Game.

  • [SNY Knicks] Lance Thomas is about a week away from playing
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 12:56:00 PM)

    Lance Thomas remains about a week away from a return, head coach Jeff Hornacek said Monday.

  • [NYDN] Lance Thomas about a week away from playing, says Knicks coach
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 8:07:10 PM)

    Lance Thomas was back with the Knicks on Monday wearing a protective mask.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony helps Knicks hold off Pacers for 109-103 win
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 8:06:13 PM)

    The Pacers honored Reggie Miller on Monday night, which seemed a cruel choice with the Knicks in the building

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ Joakim Noah grimaces at his awful airball on a free throw
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 3:49:38 PM)

    Joakim Noah hooked it wide and had the reaction to prove it.

  • [NYDN] Charles Barkley can’t believe TNT is airing the Knicks game
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 3:48:17 PM)

    Even a Knicks trainwreck isn’t enough to garner the attention of Charles Barkley.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks win after wasting 16-point fourth-quarter lead
    (Tuesday, January 24, 2017 1:07:42 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony hit some clutch shots down the stretch and the Knicks got a huge turnover with the game on the line that helped them pull out a 109-103 victory over the Pacers on Monday night.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony hopes to be picked as All-Star
    (Tuesday, January 24, 2017 12:13:43 AM)

    Carmelo Anthony will find out Thursday if he’s playing in his eighth straight All-Star Game or if he’s going to get a rare chance at a long mid-February break.

  • [NYPost] Lance Thomas thought his teeth were falling out after brutal hit
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 8:03:08 PM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — Lance Thomas has a new mask fitting just right but won’t suit up until his headaches go away. Thomas confirmed he wasn’t diagnosed with a concussion but is nursing a lingering headache due to the fractured orbital bone suffered eight days ago in Toronto by a wild Jonas Valuncianis elbow to the face….

  • [NYPost] Carmelo and Knicks flip script after flirting with familiar choke
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 6:05:26 PM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — How big was this late save? Coach Jeff Hornacek said another last-second loss could have spelled the end. Two days after his potential game-winning 3-pointer went in and out against Phoenix, Carmelo Anthony responded. He sank a gigantic 14-foot left-baseline jumper over Jeff Teague with 23 seconds remaining, breaking a tie and sending…

  • [NYPost] Even Joakim Noah knew this was the worst free throw ever
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 4:16:02 PM)

    The Knicks are struggling mightily, and Joakim Noah didn’t make it any better Monday night. Losers of seven of their past 10 games, several of which ended in dramatic, devastating fashion, the Knicks could certainly use a strong performance from their flashy offseason signing. The Knicks’ $72 million man attempted to add points to the…

  • [NYPost] How Carmelo Anthony is dealing with All-Star reality
    (Monday, January 23, 2017 7:47:34 AM)

    INDIANAPOLIS — Big Easy or bust? Not for Carmelo Anthony. Anthony has contemplated the possibility head coaches could deny him a berth on the Eastern Conference All-Star team as a reserve at forward. He claims he won’t get all worked up about it if he is snubbed from going to New Orleans for the Feb….

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    197 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.24)”

    1. I can already picture this website in a year from now, after the Knicks draft a project in the end of the lottery and people try to argue that it was a good idea to include him as filler in the inevitable Rudy Gay trade that’s happening.

    2. I can already picture this website in a year from now, after the Knicks draft a project in the end of the lottery and people try to argue that it was a good idea to include him as filler in the inevitable Rudy Gay trade that’s happening.

      I don’t know which part of this prescient post made me the angriest, to be honest: the idea that we’re picking at the end of the lottery, that we trade said pick for a fading veteran, or that people here would rationalize it with the usual monkey logic. Nice troll.

    3. OKC had KD, Harden and Westbrook through drafting high and efficiently.

      SO FUKIN WHAT ?

      WHERE ARE THEIR CHAMPIONSHIPS ?

      WWWWWHHHHHHEEEEEEERRRRRRREEEEEE ?

    4. Such an insult to intelligence to have your team win with 2 washed up ex stars like Melo and Rose taking most of the shots and getting all the headlines, while hurting your future chances at anything better than blah. Infuriating stupidity.

    5. Where is our centerpiece??? Oh that’s right, he is being run to the ground while looking physically subpar to satisfy some urge to chase an 8 seed in the playoffs. #shortterm thinking

    6. You don’t have to tank to get a Giannis.

      Yes you do. This year’s Giannis is projected to go somewhere between 4th and 11th according to the mocks.

    7. Boston rebuilds w/o tanking.

      Boston has the Nets to tank for them.

      San Antonio piss on tanking the last 20 years.

      Don’t forget that they also built their dynasty on a luck tank season when David Robinson got hurt and then added a crapload of picks (10 in around 4 years) that netted them Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Luis Scola, Leandro Barbosa at a time when foreign talent was severely undervalued.

      WHERE ARE THEIR CHAMPIONSHIPS?

      LOL. This is too stupid to seriously argue against.

    8. Such an insult to intelligence to have your team win with 2 washed up ex stars like Melo and Rose taking most of the shots and getting all the headlines, while hurting your future chances at anything better than blah. Infuriating stupidity.

      So true. We’re not even good at sucking.

      Where is our centerpiece??? Oh that’s right, he is being run to the ground while looking physically subpar to satisfy some urge to chase an 8 seed in the playoffs. #shortterm thinking

      Bingo.

    9. I love the Knicks fan mentality of acting like tanking is too good for this proud and prestigious franchise that has been an NBA laughingstock for 17 years. Its the kind of warped delusion you see in dysfunctional environments. God forbid we lose an extra 10 or so games than we’d normally lose if we kept this shitty core together. We need to compete for that prestigious 8th seed/sub-.500 spot we always gun for and sadly rarely even manage to make.

    10. @13

      I should say “I love the Knicks fan mentality of acting like tanking isn’t good enough for this proud and prestigious franchise that has been an NBA laughingstock for 17 years.”

    11. Cleveland has lost five of its last seven, including last night to a Pelicans team without Anthony Davis. Lebron is complaining about not having enough “bodies” and “playmakers”. Seems like a perfect destination for Carmelo!

    12. It’s crazy if the Knicks had won 2 of the 1 point loss games they would be 22-24 a measly .5 games out of 8th

    13. The Knicks’ win was clearly bigger than you guys are willing to acknowledge.
      It was a beautiful outcome, never in doubt.
      I was particularly touched by Melo sharing the ball with Indian fans in such a selfless way. He is a great ambassador for NY basketball.
      Nobody knows this like I do, but the Pacers are a very good team. The Knicks should be pleased with this blow out. I hear they were dancing in the streets in Manhattan. Dancing, really. You wouldn’t believe it, but it was true.

    14. From last thread:

      “Oh, its no shtick. The problem is that we’re practically tanking by trotting out the same shitty starting lineup. They almost blew the game again. The problem, as always is the case in Knicksland, is that the franchise can’t even fully commit to failing so instead of having a top 3 lottery pick in the coming draft we’ll have to settle for a 12th lottery pick and still no playoff series to watch. In the end, its still failing – just a half-assed form of failing that pretends to be competitively playing for some meaningful playoff basketball when the reality is that we’re a bad team going nowhere.”

      Yes it is. Anyone with a brain in their head knows that the Knicks are not going to purposely tank at this point. They already have 20 wins and will surely have over 30 when the season is over. Tanking is simply not going to happen. It is a near certainty.

      The point has been made 1000’s of times that they probably should tank. However, going on and on like a broken record neither will make the Knicks reconsider their strategy nor elucidate anyone on this site about anything they don’t already know, either about you or about the Knicks. So yes, at this point, it is reduced to tired schtick.

      But if you feel that you are actually accomplishing something more than self-flagellation at this point, more power to you.

    15. what do you propose then zman, may I ask?

      blissful ignorance? happy thoughts and feelings? good vibes?

      nothing that’s ever been discussed here ever changed anything in the Knicks, so what’s the issue with this particular shtick?

    16. we are a tortured fan base engaging in mostly pointless discussions anyway, we don’t need extra people regulating what should and what shouldn’t be discussed or what’s the behavior of the proper fan.

    17. Yeah the Knicks ain’t tanking. The east is mediocre enough that the Knicks may finish the season with like a 5 seed

    18. According to FiveThirtyEight, there’s going to be a 3-way tie for the 8th seed at 39-43. Let’s say it would take 40 wins to secure a playoff spot and not lose a tiebreaker. Getting to 40 wins would require the Knicks to go 20-16 the rest of the season. That’s possible. Not likely, but possible.

      Then what? A 4-game stomping by Cleveland? Or say we overachieve, get the 7th seed, and lose in 5 to Toronto. Whoop dee doo. Our only chance of a semi-competitive first round is to get the 6th seed and face Boston. That would require 43 wins (according to FiveThirtyEight), which means we have to go 23-13 the rest of the season. Basically impossible.

      Until recently, I was torn on whether to root for wins or losses. But the numbers don’t lie. Having a “fun” playoff appearance — i.e. a competitive first-round series — is such an extreme long-shot that it just makes more sense to go the other direction.

    19. Tanking seems sane only if you BLOW UP this ‘shit’ we have right now.
      I’m not chasing the 8th seed.I just want to stick to winning mentality and upgrade the team via trades , salary cap management and 1st round draft picks.
      And i think that your assets look more tradeable while winning than tanking.

    20. I do agree with our GM Dred that we should bench Staps. I would hold him out until after the ASG. Ride with Billy and KOQ

    21. Yes it is. Anyone with a brain in their head knows that the Knicks are not going to purposely tank at this point. They already have 20 wins and will surely have over 30 when the season is over. Tanking is simply not going to happen. It is a near certainty.

      They are one Melo trade away from a total collapse, something that sounded very possible had this team lost night. Hornacek himself said in the press last night that the team would have “probably would’ve quit, called it a year” if they lost against Indiana. A total tank was and remains very real possibility.

    22. I should say “I love the Knicks fan mentality of acting like tanking isn’t good enough for this proud and prestigious franchise that has been an NBA laughingstock for 17 years.”

      Even the Yankees eventually accepted the reality that their team was mediocre, and sold at the trade deadline. And guess what? They got multiple top 100 prospects: Clint Frazier, Gleyber Torres, and more. Gary Sanchez went NUTS after he got more playing time. Now they are in the best shape in years.

      The root cause of the Knicks’ refusal to tank is not pride. It’s James Dolan’s lack of testicular fortitude. And his lack of faith in New Yorkers to show up at MSG for a losing season.

    23. what do you propose then zman, may I ask?

      He wants the ostrich approach – lets stick our heads in the sand and fantasize about how Rick Rubio is going to make us a contending team as the Knicks learn to gel and improve on defense. You know, the same basic shit you read on 80 percent of Posting and Toasting these days everyday.

    24. ride or die or trade two future 1sts for Rudy Gay and filler

      Knicks gon give it to ya

    25. It’s tough to solely blame Dolan for refusing to rebuild. Just look around at all the moronic fans rejoicing last night’s win, hoping we are one step closer to the eighth seed. The fans seem to accept this mediocre nonsense, so why should he care?

    26. what do you propose then zman, may I ask?

      blissful ignorance? happy thoughts and feelings? good vibes?

      I propose MEMES. Come on Mike, open up the gates and let us post embedded images. Make Knickerblogger Dank Again.

      Until recently, I was torn on whether to root for wins or losses. But the numbers don’t lie.

      AND THEY SPELL DISASTER FOR THE KNICKS AT SACRIFICE

    27. It’s tough to solely blame Dolan for refusing to rebuild. Just look around at all the moronic fans rejoicing last night’s win, hoping we are one step closer to the eighth seed. The fans seem to accept this mediocre nonsense, so why should he care?

      That’s a good question, but I think a lot of them will go in whatever direction the MSG marketing machine tells them to go.

    28. The root cause of the Knicks’ refusal to tank is not pride. It’s James Dolan’s lack of testicular fortitude. And his lack of faith in New Yorkers to show up at MSG for a losing season.

      I disagree here because the problem is larger than Dolan, its endemic to the fanbase that craves and contents itself with chasing mediocrity. Not even achieving achieving mediocrity, mind you. This fanbase is happy chasing a possibility at the first round trouncing at the hands of the Cavaliers than they are losing an extra 10-15 games and getting a good shot a high draft pick for its team’s future while they laugh at the Sixers for fully committing to a rebuild that will stack them with elite talent for a generation. Even on a rational, stats-oriented site such as this we have fans who legitimately believe this team is a middling point guard away from a low seed in the East. Its this type of mentality that has enabled the endemic and perennial mediocrity which typifies Dolan’s reign of terror the past 17 seasons and it irks me to no end.

    29. Gary Sanchez was not acquired by tanking. He was drafted through good scouting while the team was competitive. They did tank last year for a bunch of unproven prospects who haven’t done anything yet.

    30. I’m all in on the dank memes, nothing else worth seeing in this horrible season anyway.

      Y’all want to sit here and talk about how this team can be good, and we are the delusional ones for holding out hope that this sorry ass franchise finally makes a really good decision because it is probably not happening?

      yeah…

    31. It would be difficult for the Knicks to tank without intentionally trying to lose games. Say we follow the plan where we act all macho and we start playing Melo off the bench (or not at all) until he agrees to a trade. I’m not sure playing Holliday and Kuz Melo’s minutes makes the Knicks appreciably worse at this point. We’d probably lose a couple more games, but that’s not enough to full on tank this sucker.

    32. @37

      Exactly. There is a weird culture combining stupidity, pride and mediocrity that defines Knicks fandom that makes the rational NBA fan around the league scratch their heads. There hasn’t been one franchise in the NBA that has so woefully underachieved the past 17 seasons and MSG still attracts Knicks fans like shit does flies the moment the latest overpriced, washed up star is marketed as the franchise’s new savior.

    33. the way to the full tank would be trading Melo for nothing of immediate value and increasing rose’s, Jennings’ and Noah’s minutes, while shutting down KP for the season… just taking them all off the team would probably guarantee about 37 wins.

    34. What about Noah’s air ball on his first free throw attempt? Most of us could do better in 20 foot seas.

    35. @43

      Its why I remain adamant in keeping Rose on this team and giving him major minutes. We need the right people to tank. He’s instrumental in that task at least until Melo is traded. Phil should tell Melo he’s going to move, and will seek to trade Rose and then him. It’ll work. Play more Lance, B-Jennings too.

    36. How to be a champ:
      Step 1-Draft Kyrie at no1 and Tristan at No4
      Step 2-Draft Dion at No4
      Step 3-Draft Anthony Bennett at No1
      Step 4-Draft Andrew Wiggins at No1
      now for the final steps:
      step5- trade your SUPER TALENTS FROM step3 and step4 for LOVE
      and
      step6- wait for one of the best players of all times to come to you as a FA.

      You did it.
      It’s so easy to be a champ through tanking.

      TANKING IS THE SOLUTION
      Scouting is overrated

    37. Gary Sanchez was not acquired by tanking. He was drafted through good scouting while the team was competitive. They did tank last year for a bunch of unproven prospects who haven’t done anything yet.

      Yes, and trading Carlos Beltran allowed the Yankees to play Brian McCann at DH. It opened up the starting catcher position for Gary.

      Clint Frazier, the main get from the Andrew Miller, is starting the season in AAA. Keep an eye on him, just saying ;)

    38. Tanking a team like this isn’t merely about plugging the right guys anyways. At its core, its about breaking the spirit of this proud, overrated team to a point where they realize deep down inside they’ll never be a contender. If you can do that, as Hornacek hinted was close to happening, the losing will take care of itself as the rats look to bail a sinking ship. You’ll begin to see things like Rose skipping games and Melo throwing his hands up while fighting with Phil in the media.

    39. Tank or no tank – who gives a fuck? Nothing will change and the only option we have is to continue enjoying basketball beyond the pathetic show the Knicks offer every time.

      I root for the Warriors and enjoy watching the top teams play each other.

      The Knicks are just a perverse, twisted little pleasure greatly intensified with every loss. I relish the last-second losses and will never forget the glorious 17-65 season when Chandler goaltended his own dunk with the head!

      Can’t wait to see the team not making the playoffs and Melo leaving town. I hate his playing style but love the little embarrassed ghetto smile when he misses the winning shots starting with 3 minutes left on the clock and the game tied.

    40. @37, @40, @44

      I don’t live in NYC so maybe I’m not as well informed on the core fanbase’s zeitgeist. However, I’m not inclined to believe that the mindset you guys are describing is unique to New York. The Lakers stealth tanked by giving Kobe Bryant starter’s minutes on a farewell tour season. The Sixers are a historic and pretty proud franchise. Philly fans have an established reputation for hating on everything. Yet, their ownership sold their fanbase on The Process. What makes Knicks fans all that different?

    41. @48

      This is precisely the type of Knicks logic that makes me want to go postal. So because the odds of drafting a championship team are low, we should not try at all and content ourselves to this sub.-500 shitshow we’ve seen the past 17 years. Its the ultimate loser mentality: trying is hard and the odds are against us so lets not try at all, lets just keep supporting the lazy mediocre approach of inviting washed up, overpriced veterans who will promise us a championship while playing sub-.500 basketball.

    42. @52 Go on the sbnation sites for the three teams you mentioned. There is a very distinct difference in IQ between Lakers, Sixers, and Knick fans. I’ll admit I’m being pretty hyperbolic, but nonetheless, it’s worth taking a look at and drawing your own conclusions.

    43. Tank or no tank – who gives a fuck? Nothing will change and the only option we have is to continue enjoying basketball beyond the pathetic show the Knicks offer every time. I root for the Warriors and enjoy watching the top teams play each other.

      Then you should be on a Warriors blog. Since this a (for the most part) rational blog about the Knicks so I came to give a fuck about them here.

    44. I root for the Warriors and enjoy watching the top teams play each other.

      I don’t quite know how to feel about agreeing with Theo on something, but I will say that the Knicks’ terribleness has made me more of a fan of the NBA in general. This is along with Grantland (RIP) introducing me to journalists like Zach Lowe, Jonathan Tjarks, and Jonathan Abrams; also, youtube channels like FreeDawkins and BBallBreakdown.

      Instead of watching the Suns game on Saturday night, I watched Spurs/Cavs, rooted for San Antonio, and enjoyed the HECK out of it. Sports are entertainment for me first and foremost. If the product is shit, I’ll switch to something else. Life is too short and I deal with enough negativity as it is.

    45. What makes Knicks fans all that different?

      NYC fan devotion to the sport of basketball is legendary. Its very similar to the hogwash that Theo is writing. They just love to watch basketball and content themselves with whatever the MSG front office throws their way. Lakers fans are frontrunners to their core and many spoiled by championships. Sixers fans have notoriously dogged that franchise whenever ownership acted up. They bailed for years after Barkley and Iverson left. Neither fanbase would endure the shitty level of basketball we’ve been subjected to for the past 17 years and remained so blindly devoted to their team.

    46. @48

      Tanking and scouting are not mutually exclusive. You should scout well if you have the #4 pick just like you should scout well if you have the #13 pick. The only difference is that when you’re picking 4th, you have nine more players to choose from than the team picking 13th.

    47. So….we have a guy who is the future of the franchise, greatly needs in game experience. And you want to sit him. so that we will lose. Because if we tank, we will go from the 19th worst record in the league to maybe 8th worst. Who tanks for the 8th pick?

      You put your team on the court and you try to win. If you want to argue we should play the kids more, I’m totally with you. But, you don’t tank unless you have a plan and you are taking for something. the 6th – 10th pick is not a sure thing.

      Lets go back 2 years to who you guys wanted us to draft. Lots said Mudiay. Some said trade up for Russell or Okafor, since Towns wasn’t going to happen. Others wanted to trade down for Willie Cauley Stein, Winslow, Hizonja, Winslow. The only 1/2 tank worthy guy was Myles Turner, who went 11, but 6 teams chose the shit I mentioned over him.

      You don’t tank to pick 8th instead of 12th or 15th. That’s just stupid.

    48. “what do you propose then zman, may I ask?

      blissful ignorance? happy thoughts and feelings? good vibes?

      nothing that’s ever been discussed here ever changed anything in the Knicks, so what’s the issue with this particular shtick?”

      No, not blissful ignorance. Supporting a tank is a legit pov. Hating Knicks mgmt is a legit pov. Thinking that any or all of the players suck is a legit pov. And rooting for the team to lose in spite of mgmt’s intentions is a legit pov.

      However, continually harping on mgmt for not making a decision not that has a 0.000000000000000001% chance of being made serves no purpose, whether or not it would be best for the team in the long run.

      I would actually have no problem with the Knicks going into full tank mode, i.e. benching (or ditching) Melo, Noah and Rose and playing Baker, Kuz, Holiday, Marshall and Ndour starter’s minutes. I just know it’s not going to happen at this point. Would you or anyone else argue differently? Do you really, truly believe that there is any possibility of it happening?

    49. Lebron is starting to bitch and whine like he does whenever things don’t go exactly his way. He wants the Cavs to take action to improve a team he clearly doesn’t believe is better than the Warriors. We need to create a bidding war between them and the Paul-less Clippers for Melo. It will be beautiful.

    50. Gary Sanchez was not acquired by tanking. He was drafted through good scouting while the team was competitive. They did tank last year for a bunch of unproven prospects who haven’t done anything yet.

      You must long for the days of Danny Tartabull and Jesse Barfield….

    51. You don’t tank to pick 8th instead of 12th or 15th. That’s just stupid.

      In a draft this stacked you just might.

    52. Would you or anyone else argue differently? Do you really, truly believe that there is any possibility of it happening?

      You have the fucking coach of the team himself saying last night that his players were one more loss away from giving up on the season and you’re telling me there is a 0.000000000000000001% that Phil doesn’t notice and sell off what he can?

    53. Willie Hernangomez is a strong prospect. He has great footwork in the post and a nice midrange jumper. His defense is not yet NBA-worthy. With development, I believe he could be a rotation player for a strong playoff team.

      So long as he hustles (and he dogged some games in December), he should be getting at least 20 mpg. If he loses some games for the Knicks in the interim, that is a price for building for the future. If he wins some games for the Knicks in the interim, that is also a price for building for the future.

    54. I relish the last-second losses and will never forget the glorious 17-65 season when Chandler goaltended his own dunk with the head!

      He wasn’t on that team dummy. Fake news!

    55. We literally drafted Jordan Hill one pick after Stephen Curry and there are still people arguing the merits of “tanking”?

    56. I would gladly tank from he 15th to the 8th pick.

      it’s not only about the draft, it’s about the state of the team.

      I can’t believe some of you guys can’t seem to understand that the purgatory is MUCH worse to be in than it is to be terrible…

      how many teams became championship contenders after spending years in the 6th to 8th position in their conferences?

      I respect the fact that some of you are perfectly fine with being the Hornets, Bucks or the Wizards, but I’ll keep saying that I’m not.

    57. I don’t blame Knick fans for Dolan’s refusal to do a proper rebuild. The fact is, most fans in every city are casual fans who don’t understand the mechanisms of team-building. They all want to win rather than lose — which makes sense, because you’re supposed to want your team to win in sports. Unfortunately the NBA has a somewhat perverse system where the best way to win is to get superstars, and the best way to get superstars is to draft them, and the best way to draft them is to pick high, and the best way to pick high is to lose a lot of games.

      Most fans don’t understand the system and they’re inherently optimistic, so they always think their team is closer to a championship than they really are. That’s why smart executives run teams, not fans. They can see the big picture. Unfortunately, the Knicks have a very dumb owner who hires bad executives. That’s why we never build properly.

    58. great win last night!
      shows the grit and toughness phil has carefully put together while dolan has his back thru these tough times… we showed meddle and a real reason to root for a postseason showdown against the cavs(losers of 5 of 7).

      like brian said last night, phil had the pooportunity to rebuild when he took office, he chose to win now and anyone who thinks tank is an option for phil needs to have his head examined. there aint gonna be no rebuild, sure as hell wont be losing on purpose for a draft position.

    59. Wow, how many times do I need t say this? I would have no problem with tanking, I just don’t think it has any chance of happening at this point in the season. This team was put together to make the playoffs and they are within 3 games of the 8 spot. Smart or dumb, it’s just not happening.

      As to Horny’s comments, that’s just post-game rhetoric. If you’re gullible enough to believe it, whatever.

    60. You definitely tank from ~13 to ~8. Those 5 positions are the difference between drafting Ntilikina, Fox, or Smith if he drops vs. Miles Bridges or Hartenstein (good prospects in their own right, but not what we need and not on the same level as the prior 3.)

      I think it’s a real possibility that at least OQ gets traded, if not Jennings or Rose if things really go to pot.

    61. So….we have a guy who is the future of the franchise, greatly needs in game experience. And you want to sit him. so that we will lose.

      So much fail here.

      I can only speak for myself, but I think the majority thinks thusly. It is insane to paly KP 35 m/g on an immature skeleton. He has some sort of lingering injury that is clearly limiting his play. Sit him down until it is completely healed and completely rehabed. Than put a minutes restriction on him and don’t play him 40 plus minutes ever to win a game or two.

      Most want to “tank” by moving Melo, et al because we believe that while Melo is still an overall above average player who has some extreme talents that might help a top team in the playoffs, he will be toast by the time KP is ready to dominate and it is best for the franchise to get a future consideration of value today.

      The Lee/Rose/Noah (impossible to move) stop gaps were an idea that hasn’t and won’t work. The notion of moving them for whatever future considerations is addition by subtraction. Lee might bring a late first rounder. O’Quinn might bring a 20 ish pick and maybe Melo something better.

      By gutting the team now you will probably bring us to the 4-8 slot in this draft and if I were in marketing I would love to sell KP, the 6th, 12th, 20th and 26th pick with 2 #2’s moving forward along with letting W H-G, N’dour, Opie, Plumlee and Kuz playing a lot of minutes to end the season.

      That seems so much more rational than fighting for the 8 seed and likely failing and still having a declining Melo demanding the ball if he doesn’t get off a shot every 3rd possession.

    62. It’s so absurd to say, “Player X wasn’t a high draft pick and he’s great therefore draft position doesn’t matter.” If that’s the case, then why have a first-round pick at all? Let’s trade our first-rounder for two second rounders.

      Everybody knows that the 45th pick is just as good as the 13th pick. Isaiah Thomas was drafted 60th! Marc Gasol was drafted 48th! Why move up in the draft when all picks are the same?!

    63. It’s so absurd to say, “Player X wasn’t a high draft pick and he’s great therefore draft position doesn’t matter.” If that’s the case, then why have a first-round pick at all? Let’s trade our first-rounder for two second rounders.

      Hyperbole.

      Picking from 10-17 usually gets a decent to good player and even a great player.

      K Leonard
      P George
      M Turner

      Just off the top of my head

    64. like brian said last night, phil had the pooportunity to rebuild when he took office, he chose to win now and anyone who thinks tank is an option for phil needs to have his head examined.

      If Brian said that he’s dead wrong. Phil didn’t have the opportunity to rebuild when he took office. He didn’t even have the courtesy of being left a first round pick for 2 of the next 3 years by his predecessor when he came into office so tanking/full rebuilding would have made zero sense. Outside of this he could have resigned Melo or let him for nothing and he could have traded what few marketable assets were on the team at the time. Considering that Melo was our only asset, he was smart to hold onto the guy in hopes that we would wave a NTC and garner some picks. The only place where Phil could have done a better job rebuilding when he took over was in getting better value for Chandler, Shumpert, Smith, Felton. But I continue to believe the market for these players was not as appealing as some here make it out to be.

    65. From the top my head you can get Manu Ginobili, Draymond Green, Nikola Jokic, Marc Gasol in the 2nd round and since you might a Micheal Olewakani or a Andrea Bargiani as your first overall pick the difference shouldn’t matter. Let’s just pick wherever we may.

    66. @73

      Bob, I agree 100 percent with everything you wrote. It makes so much sense I can’t envision our FO realistically pursuing each of your recommendations but can hope they would purse most of them.

    67. The only thing that a higher draft pick gets you is the opportunity to make a good decision before other teams have the same opportunity. If you spend a #1 on Anthony Bennett, that’s on you.

    68. Hyperbole.

      Picking from 10-17 usually gets a decent to good player and even a great player.

      K Leonard
      P George
      M Turner

      Just off the top of my head

      The problem is that the Knicks don’t need decent to good players, those are really easy to find especially if you’re a good team. If the hope is to someday compete for a title, or even the ECF, then we need great players and great players are found almost exclusively at the top of the draft.

    69. If Phil can trade KQ and/or Jennings before the deadline for another first round pick (which will probably also be a later first round pick), then I’d be fine wherever our other pick ends up. Of course higher means a higher chance of getting a good player but you still have to do the scouting and development of whoever you choose. Lots of top ten picks are busts every year. And many picked later in the first round are solid players, sometimes even great ones. If Phil can snag another first round pick we’ll go into the draft with 2 firsts and 2 seconds…that’s the most picks in one draft we’ve had in forever. I’d be very pleased with that outcome even if our highest pick was number 12 to 15.

      I don’t think things are as dire as everyone here claims they are. And I don’t think Phil has been horrible. He’s made good moves and bad moves. KP, Willie H, Kuz, Baker, Holiday, KQ….there’s a decent core of players on this team that Phil got through good drafting, scouting, trade negotiations and free agency. Rose expires and so does Jennings. Lee should be moveable at some point too. Melo will bring back value if we decide to trade him and he’s open to it. Noah is really the only long term bad contract on this team (well Lance too but that’s not that bad really).

    70. @76

      that was exactly his point, people use a couple of isolated examples and say that draft position won’t matter, except that most legit stars throughout the history of the NBA have been top picks.

    71. @79

      Yup. Draymond > Olawakandi, therefore 2nd rounders are just as valuable (if not more so!) as the #1 pick. And hey, Ben Wallace was undrafted and he’s better than Olawakandi too, so let’s not draft at all!

      It’s ridiculous. Just because there are exceptions to a rule doesn’t invalidate the rule. The higher the pick, the better your chance of getting a good player. Why is this even up for debate?

    72. The only thing that a higher draft pick gets you is the opportunity to make a good decision before other teams have the same opportunity. If you spend a #1 on Anthony Bennett, that’s on you.

      Exactly. The Knicks have been shown to have a good scouting department. That’s the point. Of course everyone would love to have the #1 pick every year.

    73. Why is this even up for debate?

      Because Knicks fans have been so abused by Knick mismanagement the past 17 years that their own mindsets have been warped and twisted to reflect the absurd logic under which their franchise is run. Its kind of like Stockholm Syndrome whereby an abused victim identifies and internalizes the ideology of their abuser as a mechanism to cope through their trauma.

      The chances of getting a really good all star type player are way higher in the first 5 picks of a draft than they are for the rest of that draft. It levels down gradually from 6-10 and again 10-15. I’d like to pick in that elite pool one more time.

    74. This is one of the most irritating Knick teams ever. Not good enough to contend for anything other than an outside chance at an eighth seed, too good to get into the lottery.

      Root for them to win, they let you down. Root for them to lose, they let you down. They just putter along, drearily trudging along to 36 wins and an eventual selection of a mediocre late lottery PF like Bam Adebayo or TJ Leaf as the “reward.”

      Is it baseball season yet?

    75. Zero chance Phil will tank unless the decision is basically made for him — ie. we go something like 0-10 or close to it before the trade deadline. I don’t remotely see that happening. Outside of the toronto game, I actually think we’ve played quite well lately. I mean, we would all feel totally different about this team had Giannis been called for the 5 second backdown and McConnell missed that buzzer beater and if Melo’s shot had rimmed in against the Wiz as opposed to out.

      Willy has been an absolute revelation. Averaging 15/13/2/1.5 per 36 with a TS of 59 and a usage of 19. The only player who even approaches those numbers as a rookie is Arvydas Sabonis, and he was a 30 year old rookie. And even though people harp on his defense, he has the 2nd lowest DRtg on the team and has a positive DBPM and DRPM. The reason his WS/48 is still only about 0.100 is his high TO rate– but he’s cut that from 25% in November to roughly 10% over the next two months even as his AST% has marginally increased.

      He honestly looks like the better European C/PF than his teammate recently….

    76. great players are found almost exclusively at the top of the draft.

      Do you have stats for this?

      Look at the East all stars

      Wall/Lebron/ Kyrie #1 pick
      Derozan #9
      Lowry #24
      Giannis #15
      Jimmy Butler #30
      Kemba # 9
      Kevin Love # 5
      Isaiah Thomas # 60
      Paul George # 10

    77. I mean, we would all feel totally different about this team had Giannis been called for the 5 second backdown and McConnell missed that buzzer beater and if Melo’s shot had rimmed in against the Wiz as opposed to out.

      The problem with this stance is that I could just easily point to games we won where we had the good luck to squeak through.

    78. I mean, we would all feel totally different about this team had Giannis been called for the 5 second backdown and McConnell missed that buzzer beater and if Melo’s shot had rimmed in against the Wiz as opposed to out.

      I would feel worse about this team if it was, say, .500 and on track to get annihilated in the first round. The record would look a little different, but it would still be the same mediocre-to-bad team (14th offense, 25th defense) that has no chance to do anything substantial in the playoffs. The only difference is we’d be picking 15th-18th instead of in the lottery. That sounds truly awful actually. Here’s to hoping for more rim outs and non-calls against opponents.

    79. @90 If the Knicks were the 8th seed, at the earliest they would pick is 15. In other words, too late to take 7/11 of the guys you listed.

    80. As our old friend Pythagoras might have predicted, the Knicks have regressed just about all the way to the mean in terms of expected wins and losses. They’ve actually been remarkably consistent: they’ve been a league-average offense and something like the #25 defense pretty much all the way through. It’s not hard to do the crude math and see that the end result is a sub-.500 team.

    81. @90

      look at history…

      Duncan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Jordan, Hakeem, LeBron, Bill russell, Shaq, Ewing, Worthy, Dominique, Isiah, McHale, Barkley, David robinson, Pippen, Wade, Kyrie, CP3, KG, just off the top of my head.

      pretty much every transformational talent ever was drafted in the top 10.

    82. I think we should sit Kristaps for another two weeks

      Yes.

      You don’t tank to pick 8th instead of 12th or 15th. That’s just stupid.

      No.

      The only thing that a higher draft pick gets you is the opportunity to make a good decision before other teams have the same opportunity.

      Yes.

      Lets go back 2 years to who you guys wanted us to draft. Lots said Mudiay. Some said trade up for Russell or Okafor, since Towns wasn’t going to happen. Others wanted to trade down for Willie Cauley Stein, Winslow, Hizonja, Winslow. The only 1/2 tank worthy guy was Myles Turner, who went 11, but 6 teams chose the shit I mentioned over him.

      No one wanted Mudiay. No one wanted to trade up for Okafor or Russell. Others did want to trade down for WCS and Winslow – which in retrospect is still not clearly a bad idea. It will take another year or two to know for sure.

      I hate his playing style but love the little embarrassed ghetto smile when he misses

      Hooray, Theo/Luke said something ban-worthy again! Can we please get rid of him?

    83. @83 Agreed. I’m pro tank as well but going into a deep draft with two 1sts and two seconds is a pretty good situation to be in. There’s no point pulling our hair out for a full rebuild when it doesn’t seem like we’re going to get one. With Gaines at the helm we might get another Willy or at the worst another Ron/Galloway type.

    84. I’m continually impressed by Willy’s preternatural ability at boxing out and diving to the rim–never mind his footwork. The one thing I can give the Knicks: they’re really quite good at drafting, when, you know, they actually have picks.

      Him and his brother should be front runners for ROY if he keeps it up, along with Levert and Brogdon.

    85. Do you have stats for this?

      Look at the East all stars

      Wall/Lebron/ Kyrie #1 pick
      Derozan #9
      Lowry #24
      Giannis #15
      Jimmy Butler #30
      Kemba # 9
      Kevin Love # 5
      Isaiah Thomas # 60
      Paul George # 10

      …and every single one of these guys (aside from the #1s obviously) were available with earlier picks. The teams that picked guys in front of them screwed up, but that doesn’t mean there’s something inherently valuable about the #15 pick or whatever. It’s better to have more options.

      Regardless, 11 of the top 20 leaders in WS48 were picked in the top 10. I’d be elated if we found a Kawhi or Giannis but it just does not happen very often. Since we know this team has zero chance of doing anything in the playoffs, what is the point of lowering our chances at an impact player?

    86. Um yeah I actually skipped over Theo’s post today to read the more worthwhile ones. How many times are we gonna ban this racist troll?

    87. @99 You’ve omitted Embiid because…?

      I’m not sure if Embiid counts as a rookie proper by NBA standards but yeah, if he does, he’s the clear front runner unless Simmons comes back and wows everyone.

    88. pretty much every transformational talent ever was drafted in the top 10.

      Well yeah. You are talking about something different there. Of course they were, because those types of players have been great all of their lives and are obvious picks.

    89. @105

      so…?

      getting a chance to find a talent of this level is precisely what a higher pick gives you.

      I love Draymond, for example, but I’m pretty sure anyone would rather have Anthony Davis…

    90. getting a chance to find a talent of this level is precisely what a higher pick gives you.

      Even then there is still the lottery. And even then, you arent guarenteed to hit a transformational player.

      what is the point of lowering our chances at an impact player?

      I Agree for the best long term its better to have a top 5 pick. I dont think anyone would argue that. I was just saying that its not all doom and gloom if you dont have one.

    91. you are never guaranteed anything ever in the NBA.

      still, at least 90% of the absolute top tier talent in the history of the NBA was drafted in the top ten.

      If you are the 3rd seed? by all means you should not tank to get a top ten pick… but if you are an old and shit team fighting for the honor of receiving the 15th pick? it’s obviously a better decision.

    92. @ 109 – EXACTLY. People act like the outcome of said pick is predetermined when it really isn’t. Think of it this way. We had a very good chance to get the top pick a few years ago but ended up with the 4th pick instead. If we had the top pick we grab KAT and as much as I like Zinger, KAT is better (at least right now). BUT lets say we lose those final 2 games. There is still no guarantee we end up with the top pick and instead we may have ended up with the second or third pick, not the fourth. Now maybe Phil really wanted Zinger but lets say he picked Okafor or Russell instead. I’m sure those players in the long run will be ok, maybe they even eventually end up better than Zinger. But right now it looks like we got the better player both now and in the long term and our outlook would look even worse now if we had freaking Okafor.

      At the same time there are players from that same draft who were drafted after Hezonja, Winslow, etc…the consensus next few best players in the draft who were drafted after KP…there are players who were drafted AFTER those guys who right now appear to be better players.

      Yes statistically you get a higher chance with a higher pick. But its still a chance and statistics don’t really account for scouting ability or development ability of a franchise. If you had your choice, would you let the Spurs pick and develop a mid first round pick for your team or would you let The Kings pick and develop a top 10 pick for your team?

      And this is why I said, I would be happy if Phil could get another pick even if it was later in the first round. I’d rather increase our odds with another first round pick than increase them with a slightly higher pick. So trade KQ/Jennings for a first round pick and I’d be pretty happy with two first rounders in the teens and two second rounders. That’s 4 chances to hit on a good player (right now we have 3 chances).

    93. Do you have stats for this?

      Look at the East all stars

      Wall/Lebron/ Kyrie #1 pick
      Derozan #9
      Lowry #24
      Giannis #15
      Jimmy Butler #30
      Kemba # 9
      Kevin Love # 5
      Isaiah Thomas # 60
      Paul George # 10

      Here are two articles that discuss this: 82games.com and nyloncalculus.com.

      Why are you even referencing the AllStar game and why only the East? The AllStar game is a terrible way to evaluate players and by looking at only the East you’re shrinking the pool of available talent. Why not look at the All-NBA teams instead?

      1st Team
      DeAndre Jordan – 35th
      Kawhi Leonard – 15th
      Lebron James – 1st
      Stephen Curry – 7th
      Russell Westbrook – 4th

      2nd Team
      DeMarcus Cousins – 5th
      Kevin Durant – 2nd
      Draymond Green – 35th
      Damian Lillard – 6th
      Chris Paul – 4th

      3rd Team
      Andre Drummond – 9th
      Paul George – 10th
      LaMarcus Aldridge – 2nd
      Kyle Lowry – 24th
      Klay Thompson – 11th

    94. There is certainly no guarantee of success with any particular strategy. Building a contender is hard and will always require some things to fall into place. There is a guarantee of failure with the “go all in for the 8th seed with an aging, expensive team and hope somehow that makes you a contender soon” strategy.

    95. @113

      perfectly said.

      it’s not about avenues to rebuild; it’s about guaranteed failure and a statistical chance of something much better.

    96. i probably shouldn’t – but, just wondering…for those of you wishing/hoping/rooting for the tank – i can’t imagine any real positive emotion generating from the end of yesterday’s game…

      that’s gotta suck…even worse, when we do lose – i can’t imagine feeling any type of joy with the loss…

      i understand you’re in a difficult situation being a fan of a team, knowing that most likely their best opportunity for improvement lies in continuing to play horribly; however, it might best best for sanity’s sake to just simply “let go” and just see what happens (oh look – there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, oh great it’s getting closer)…

      rooting against a team which you care for is a little like cutting off your nose to spite your face…emotionally, it just doesn’t seem like a very fruitful endeavor…

    97. @117 Losing feels great. The thought of Ball, Smith Jr., Fox, Onuoby, Ntilikina becoming more obtainable after each “crushing” defeat, again, feels great.

    98. I truly enjoy the sarcastic tanking humor from the tanksters in here but imho the smartest way to get a chip is through basketball knowledge, character evaluation and salary cap/draft strategy.
      [+tons of luck]

      Spurs prove it and i’m all in for the Knicks to go the Spurs way.

    99. @ambrosenyk…i believe you, and, in no way am i trying to throw shade – being a knicks fan is painful enough :-)

      not sure how long you been a fan, but, the knicks have definitely earned all the skepticism and scorn showed by their fans…

      i guess my only point is that, in the sparsity of enjoyable moments throughout the long nba season as a knicks fan – you really got to get in on the good times when you can – no guarantee for how long it’ll last or when there will be another…

      i’ve said this before – personally i have nothing against those guys on our team…i definitely dislike some of their playing styles at times…but, for the most part they seem like decent human beings and are easy to root for…it felt good to see them smile at the end of the game last night…

    100. @geo Absolutely. It’s hard not to momentarily feel pride for the team when they pull out a tough win. Unfortunately, that sense of accomplishment fades once you start looking at the bigger picture. Getting the eighth seed with a veteran team trending down is not something to look forward to.

    101. by the way did I miss the part of the thread where we talked about the Knicks (and Bulls) being very interested in trading for Rubio? There was some noise on Twitter about that yesterday starting with Sam Amico who covers the Cavs. And Woj reported previously that the Twolves are shopping him hard.

      It’d be fun to look at the Knicks’ offensive spacing on the floor if/when Noah and Rubio are on the floor together.

      Although I have no doubt Rubio would be the best defensive guard on the Knicks since… Clyde?

    102. It would be difficult for the Knicks to tank without intentionally trying to lose games. Say we follow the plan where we act all macho and we start playing Melo off the bench (or not at all) until he agrees to a trade. I’m not sure playing Holliday and Kuz Melo’s minutes makes the Knicks appreciably worse at this point. We’d probably lose a couple more games, but that’s not enough to full on tank this sucker.

      Agree completely.
      You’d probably have trade KOQ, have Melo and KP come up with “injuries”, and continue playing Willy <20 min/game. Maybe start Sasha and re-sign Chris Smith.

    103. @119

      Nobody is arguing that cap management and talent evaluation is not important. But those things are not mutually exclusive with picking high in the draft. You can do both. I’d rather scout well and draft #4 than scout well and draft #13.

      The Spurs have a great scouting department and drafted Tim Duncan #1 overall. The Pelicans have a terrible scouting department and drafted Anthony Davis #1 overall. Both guys are awesome. When you have a high pick, you have a much better chance of picking a good player, regardless of whether you scout well or not.

    104. I don’t get this mentality of “Who cares where we pick because nothing is guaranteed.” It’s illogical. Nothing in life is guaranteed. Does that mean you shouldn’t try?

      Why bother polishing your resume if you might not get the job? Why bother brushing your teeth before a date if you might not get a second date anyway? You do it because it increases your odds. Just like getting a higher draft pick increases our odds of drafting a star, even though it doesn’t guarantee it. That’s why you do it.

    105. @57

      That helps me understand things better; thanks for the insight.

      @115

      OK, I had way too much fun with that tanking game. I went with like an 80% Process: sold everyone and did an extreme tank the first season, drafted a “superstar”, then signed solid vets that wouldn’t move the needle. Drafted #11 and #12 the next two years. Along with the second rounders from the year 1 teardown, in total I drafted two “stars” and two solid role players. I won at tanking!

    106. For all you guys saying the Knicks should follow the Spurs way, I have just a single question: when is rookie Duncan arriving at MSG and where is David robinson? I’d like to watch them.

      the Spurs are great and all, but if Boston or Philly had won that lottery, and the Spurs had drafted Van Horn for example, nothing would have worked out the way it did… we might as well be talking about the Spurs as a wasteland of a franchise.

      all the moves after getting Duncan were amazing, but don’t fool yourselves: Duncan was 100% the cornerstone of everything that happened to the Spurs.

    107. i probably shouldn’t – but, just wondering…for those of you wishing/hoping/rooting for the tank – i can’t imagine any real positive emotion generating from the end of yesterday’s game…

      Your point is well-taken. My emotions while watching the Knicks this season are totally incoherent. I like watching KP, Willy, Kuz, and anyone else who could conceivably be part of a future succeed. If their success leads to a win, so be it. What I can’t stand is when one or more of the Melo/Rose/Lee/Noah crowd leads us to victory, because there’s zero chance any of them will be on the next good Knicks team. They’re just lowering the chances of that team existing in the near future. That’s not their fault–they’re basketball players playing basketball. I just wish the front office didn’t put us in this position.

    108. @125
      I understand the obvious, but i see that in reality picking high or tanking repeatedly is not the best way to build a sustainable contender.The best way to be succesful is picking correctly.

      @128
      So you’re actually saying that if Philly or Boston had won that lottery they would have won 5 chips on the last 20 years.Or maybe even more?

    109. @130

      of course I could not possibly say that for sure.

      but do you really think picking Duncan first was not a gigantic part of what the Spurs managed to do?

    110. I think the Knicks would probably need to go something like 3-8 in this next stretch of games to force Dolan/Phil to blow it up. It’s definitely possible though I think something like 5-6 is more likely. So my question is rather than the “tear it down” posts (which probably 75% of the posters here would agree with) what are some ideas about the best possible moves that actually might happen? KOQ or Noah and Lance Thomas have to be available even if the Knicks are looking to make the playoffs- Maybe Lee and or Jennings as well (Holiday has been just as good as Lee and the Knicks seem to like Baker a lot). No one is taking Noah’s contract and Thomas isn’t going to get you anything. The problem is the Knicks are probably going to want players back rather than second rounders. Lee and Jennings probably get you 2nd round picks which I don’t think Phil would be interested in. I’d be fine with some form of KOQ for Rubio as long as our picks aren’t involved. Rubio is a good player with 2 more years on good contract at a position of need- getting him would also mean there’s no way Rose gets resigned and leave the Knicks free to draft BPA rather than taking whichever point is left when their turn comes up. I’d rather they move KOQ for a first (which I think is possible- I’d take KOQ in a heartbeat over Brook Lopez) but I think they’d be looking for a player coming back. My best hope that has any degree of likelihood is that KOQ gets the Knicks a first in the coming draft and they dump Lee’s contract or Jennings for a 2nd.

    111. @130, what do you think the current roster’s ceiling is? If they need extreme luck just to win 45 games, and their highest paid players will all be worse over the next couple years, what’s the plan?

      And if they do blow it up, you’re absolutely correct that they need to nail the pick. Like, it doesn’t mean shit that you have a high pick if you use it to take Johnny Flynn over Steph Curry. But if you’re the Knicks drafting in ’09, I bet you wish you lost a couple more games the year before so you were the team picking #7.

      You need to be both (1) smart and (2) in the right place at the right time. The Knicks are potentially denying themselves #2 with this course they’re on.

    112. I want all of the Holidays here. We should draft the one at UCLA and re-sign Justin so that we can get Jrue to come over.

    113. @131 Duncan definitely helped A LOT but let’s not underestimate Popp,Parker,Ginobili and Kawhi on this last one when Their Big3 were slightly washed up.
      [And let’s also not forget that they almost won a sixth chip vs Miami]

    114. I don’t underestimate them… but you are underestimating Duncan SO MUCH if you can’t see how much he was the most important part of the puzzle.

      switch Duncan with Van Horn there and Pop might have been fired in the next season for all we know.

    115. @137
      I don’t see their puzzle crumbling down after Duncan started to decline.
      And we’re talking about a highly competitive conference.

    116. @133
      The Plan is PLAY TO WIN,TRADE & DRAFT till you be a contender.

      And if you want my opinion the right way to do that is to start by getting high character D-orientated players.

    117. … ok.

      I guess one of the best Power Forwards of all time was easily replaceable then.

      god, you guys find the most absurd illogical stuff to keep hanging on to your opinions no matter what.

      it’s obvious that the Spurs management has done an AMAZING job… nobody with a brain would ever question that; but having a first overall pick when Duncan was available was absolutely the most important piece of the puzzle, that’s my argument.

    118. “The Knicks currently have net ratings of +3.8 when Hernangomez is on the floor and -4.9 without him—a difference of 8.7 points per 100 possessions. Most impressively, New York has defensive ratings of 100.5 with Hernangomez on the court and 110.5 without him.”

      Fansided

    119. Without Duncan, you have a pretty hard time enforcing that culture.

      Without Pop, the good draft picks might not have developed.

      Without the front office, they might not have made such good draft picks.

      Without all of it together, they couldn’t have got the favorable deals with players they got.

      I think the Spurs represent a perfect storm of quality. They are exceptional, and impossible to copy.

    120. Spurs play euroball which means team ball.
      Nobody is above the team.
      It’s like Ancient Sparta.
      THIS IS SPURSTA !

    121. Wall/Lebron/ Kyrie #1 pick
      Derozan #9
      Lowry #24
      Giannis #15
      Jimmy Butler #30
      Kemba # 9
      Kevin Love # 5
      Isaiah Thomas # 60
      Paul George # 10

      You know, of this list, over there years, I have seen a lot of derisive commentary about Kemba, Thomas, Derozan and, I think, even George.

      I think sometimes the Knicks punt too quickly on young players that struggle in the beginning. I may be wrong, but most of the guys I pulled from that all star list had pretty rocky starts in the league.

      Maybe because the Knicks have been so desperate, they punted too quickly on some of our young guys.
      Lin, Gallinari, and even maybe Wilson Chandler, and David Lee went on to be solid pros. Kind of wonder how things might have turned out if we had held onto them in their circumstances.

    122. nicos, I think your perspective is pretty solid. The only place I differ is that it’s possible Phil and Melo are setting up Melo to be traded. At least, it seems MUCH more likely than at any other point in Melo’s time here. The chances are probably still pretty low, but even so, if there’s any chance, things could change dramatically.

    123. Spurs do great with lower draft picks. Now there’s a formula to emulate. Not losing on purpose which should be banned by the league.

    124. I just never thought I’d be arguing about the importance of tim freaking duncan to a basketball franchise.

    125. @149
      The Spurs are impossible to copy.
      i see…
      Let’s copy the Sixers then…………………………………………….

    126. @150 Don’t bother with them, dude. It’s pretty obvious which side of the argument is correct.

    127. RE: the Spurs — it’s culture/scouting but also their development process. How many dudes just became great playing in their system? Kawhi went from a can’t shoot defensive specialist to one of the best offensive players in the league. Parker was green and weak and became the engine of their whole offense. Even guys like Tiago Splitter, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Cory Joseph, Marco Belinelli, etc etc etc all developed a ton there. Now it’s Davis Bertans, Simmons, etc.

      But you can’t develop players correctly unless you have continuity of the coaching staff and buy-in from the stars on the team. That’s what they’ve managed to have forever.

    128. I want to hear one legitimate argument for fighting for the playoffs this year. Do people think we have a shot in the playoffs? I am okay with the argument that a #13 pick isn’t that much different than a #8 pick (even though I disagree), but even if it isn’t thatmuch different, what are we fighting for? I just want to actually listen to a positive scenario where we scratch and claw to the 9th, 8th, or 7th seed.

    129. 1. I stand with the people who say that all things being equal, it is better to draft higher than lower.
      2. If we are going to look at transformational players drafted over the last 40 years (players who could turn a team into a Championship contender as the best or second best player on the roster), my list would be
      – Larry Bird (6th pick – junior eligible);
      – Magic Johnson (1st pick);
      – Isiah Thomas (ducks – just as a player) (2nd pick);
      – Michael Jordan (3rd pick);
      – Hakeem Olajuwon (1st pick);
      – Shaquille O’Neal (1st pick);
      – David Robinson (1st pick);
      – Tim Duncan (1st pick);
      – Kobe Bryant (13th pick – HS);
      – Allen Iverson (1st pick);
      – Charles Barkley (5th pick);
      – Patrick Ewing (I’m a homer) (1st pick);
      – Lebron James (1st pick);
      – Dwayne Wade (5th pick);
      – Steph Curry (7th pick);
      – Dirk Nowitski (9th pick).

      Every single one of these transformational players was a lottery pick. 8 were first picks. Five more were off the beaten path (Bird as a junior eligible, Kobe as a HS graduate (before the deluge), Nowitski as a European (before the deluge), Curry (slight frame) and Barkley (enormous frame)). Only Wade, Thomas and Jordan were non-first picks that had no obvious flaw. Of course, Jordan and Barkley were taken in the same draft as Olajuwon (with one miss (Bowie) and one solid All-Star (Perkins)). Wade was taken in the same draft as Lebron (better pick) (with one miss (Darko) and two HOFs (Bosh & Carmelo). On the information at the time, Thomas should have been taken ahead of Aguirre.

      My point is, if the goal is to find a transformational player that will take a pedestrian lineup and give it championship chances, it is highly unlikely to find that guy any place other than the first pick — and almost certain that such a player will not be found outside of the lottery.

    130. There’s no argument for chasing a playoff berth — other than that trying to win is sort of inherent in sports. Yes, we all want to look at 4-5 years etc. but there is something to be said just for some entertaining basketball that extends maybe into May.

      Otherwise, why would any of the teams other than GS, SA, HOU, LAC, CLE, TOR, and maybe Boston even bother?

    131. @153

      This is a great point, and there is a way to please everyone on this thread. Forget the stars buying in. Use 2 discrete units.

      1) “tank” by starting all the iso-hero-playground-no-defense-overpaid-guys together. Let them dribble endlessly, and call their own numbers, and loaf on defense. Encourage it.

      2) “build” by bringing on — as a unit — all the guys who want to play a system, pass, cut, and play defense.

      Rotate these groups as units for the rest of the season. If the system guys do well, it will feel like Linsanity. Either way, the tank probably continues, but at least we are coaching some kind of system with players who listen. And we’re not letting our good guys develop bad habits by playing so much with our bad ones.

    132. Following up on the above, once the Knicks knew that they were not going to end up with one of the three worst records (virtually guaranteeing a top 5 pick), the difference between a high lottery pick and the #15 pick is not worth tanking to me. Play the players that you want to develop the right amount (Hernangomez more, Porzingis less (until he is healthy)). Play the others the optimal amount to win games.

    133. I said this once, but I’ll say it again. Winning meaningless games was the difference between Stephen Curry and Jordan Hill. Winning meaningless games was the difference between Russell Westbrook and Danilo Gallinari. Winning meaningless games was the difference between Karl Anthony Towns and Kristaps Porzingis.

      We won a few extra games those years for what? So idiot fans can smugly say “How about them Knicks” when walking into work the next morning?

    134. @160
      Agreed. For nothing. Plus I don’t think we win that many more games playing “the past” together. Based on the advanced stats, a lineup of Rose, Melo, Noah, Jennings, and Lee (or injury free LT) should be terrible. Let’s find out if that’s true. Let them find out too.

      Playing “the future” together as a unit still gives us a reason to tune in and should also speed up the young guys’ development, eg.KP catching and shooting passes from Willy and Kuz (against the other team’s second unit) is a lot better use of his time than banging the big guys while waiting around for nothing every time Melo or Rose touches the ball.

      And like @159 says, we should

      Play the players that you want to develop the right amount (Hernangomez more, Porzingis less (until he is healthy))

    135. I don’t think anyone is saying there is no benefit to picking 8th vs 13th. The issue is there is not enough proof we would be so much better off that it warrants trying not to win basketball games.

      -Avoid over-playing KP so he doesnt’ get hurt…….agree
      -Give the youngsters minutes to let them develop……agree

      it cracks me up that we can argue on one hand that moving up a little holds so much value that we should lose on purpose, yet at the same time argue that someone will give us one of those valuable picks for KOQ or Jennings…..or the trade where we send Rose to LA for Deng’s contract and their 1st round pick.

    136. Even if you believe that picking 8th is only marginally better than picking 13th, what is the advantage of winning 35 games instead of 31? Does it matter? I see those win totals as essentially identical, so I’d rather have the better pick.

    137. I don’t blame Knick fans for Dolan’s refusal to do a proper rebuild. The fact is, most fans in every city are casual fans who don’t understand the mechanisms of team-building. They all want to win rather than lose — which makes sense, because you’re supposed to want your team to win in sports. Unfortunately the NBA has a somewhat perverse system where the best way to win is to get superstars, and the best way to get superstars is to draft them, and the best way to draft them is to pick high, and the best way to pick high is to lose a lot of games.

      One of the better points on the board today. We are a different breed here on KB, so I don’t deride fans that want to see their team do well regardless the benefits of tanking.

      There’s been a bit of talk about winning meaningless games, but I am not convinced that this is something that can be 100% avoidable. If management want to put the team in position to be bad for the purposes of accruing lottery picks then that’s fine as a strategy, but it’s pretty hard to go out and ask the coach and players to phone it in and throw games. I mean you could do what Minnesota did when they had the worst record and purposely leave out healthy players, but that irks me. If you are shit you are shit, and therefore should get a high pick. I just don’t like that kind of manipulation, despite the obvious benefits.

    138. RE Tanking. Another consideration other than looking at the past for the value of a top 10 pick vs. 15, etc. etc. is to consider the coming draft.

      There are like 6 elite level PG prospects in this draft. Elite. And they will almost assuredly be gone by the time pick 13 or 15 or whatever rolls around. Yeah, you still get a good player (and the Knicks could use a good young wing, too), but how much could this team use a good young PG? Not another retread like Jrue Holiday, who may very likely command a max contract.

      I have mixed feelings about tanking, but if the Knicks could drop to 7 or 8, they’d at least have a shot at one of those guys.

      Imagine building around KP, Willy, and one of those PG?

    139. There’s been a bit of talk about winning meaningless games, but I am not convinced that this is something that can be 100% avoidable.

      But then you explained precisely how you do it. Mark Madsen shooting three pointers is how you do it. The Knicks, instead, went all out to win otherwise meaningless games in seasons where it meant them dropping from the spot where Westbrook and Love were to where Gallinari was. And from KAT to KP. And from Curry to Hill. For some reason, this team won’t do what pretty much every other team would do in the same situation.

      If you are shit you are shit, and therefore should get a high pick.

      You know who else did that exact same thing (bench guys so that they would lose so that they would get a better pick)? The Golden State Warriors right before they started their current stretch of playoff appearances (they lost their pick if it fell outside of the top 10, so they started to tank at the end of that season to make sure it was still a #10 pick – they drafted Harrison Barnes with the pick). There is no karmic penalty for using logic to design your team as best you can.

    140. But then you explained precisely how you do it. Mark Madsen shooting three pointers is how you do it. The Knicks, instead, went all out to win otherwise meaningless games in seasons where it meant them dropping from the spot where Westbrook and Love were to where Gallinari was. And from KAT to KP. And from Curry to Hill. For some reason, this team won’t do what pretty much every other team would do in the same situation.

      That’s fair enough, and as mentioned it’s up to the GM to put the team in a situation where the team is more likely to lose. The 17 win team that netted us KP was on track to have the worst record, but I doubt you can tell TH2 to just dribble the clock out and not try and put up a shot. That’s why I am saying it’s not 100% avoidable as I doubt players would be thinking lottery odds when they are in a position to win a game.

      You know who else did that exact same thing (bench guys so that they would lose so that they would get a better pick)? The Golden State Warriors right before they started their current stretch of playoff appearances (they lost their pick if it fell outside of the top 10, so they started to tank at the end of that season to make sure it was still a #10 pick – they drafted Harrison Barnes with the pick). There is no karmic penalty for using logic to design your team as best you can.

      Not saying there isn’t a benefit to doing it; just as a sportsfan it just irks me knowing a coach is purposely trying to lose. Ultimately when it’s all said and done and the Knicks were to do the same, I would probably get over it pretty quickly if we were able to draft a KAT or someone like that.

    141. we’re simply too far into the season to tank… or at least not be totally obvious about it… the time to totally punt was 2015 and it really only mattered by a game or two….

      we’d have to finish out about 12-24 or 11-25 to even be thinking about breaking into the top 10… we probably need to finish 10-26 to be serious about a top 10 pick…. that is going to be difficult since we’re probably going to need melo and kp to miss significant time if not every game from here on out.. that is more unrealistic as us getting into the playoffs…. and i’m not sure if kp missing games is worth it since he’s arguably more important than whatever draft pick we get this year….

      getting one of the pg’s or even the SF’s in this draft would be a huge boon.. but i’m fairly confident if we stay in the top 12 we have a decent shot at it anyway…. once we get to pick 13 and 14 is when i would probably start worrying that we might be in no man’s land for the draft…. but i think our positioning is fine as it stands…

      ideally pick #10 is a realistic position to root for… anything higher is a pipedream imo…

    142. I’m all for the tank, and obviously it’s better to draft at #8 than at #12.

      In the big scheme, though, this is a top-heavy draft. There are some great blue-chip prospects at the top. But by the time #8 rolls around, you’re looking more at Malik Monk/Jayson Tatum/DeAaron Fox type options, and some of those might even be off the board. I’m not sure there’s a whole lot of difference in terms of value between one of the players in that group and one of the power forward types who would probably around at #12 like TJ Leaf or Ivan Rabb.

      So I’m not gonna take these meaningless wins too hard.

    143. It really all comes back to that awful, awful NTC that Phil gave out. Remember the conversations about how “We can’t let Melo walk, we’d be an awful team without him!” and then they win 17 games the first year of his deal. Ugh. Without that NTC, this team would have totally rebuilt by now. And Melo would be on a good team, probably happy as well.

      But alas, the horrible, moronic NTC was given out by Phil, and thus the Knicks will be stuck in NBA limbo. Let’s hope they at least get lucky with the #15 pick.

    144. tatum and fox are the real deal… monk not so much… leaf is kind of interesting but he’s not the prospect fox or tatum are though…

    145. If Stephen A Smith is right that Cleveland might be willing to do a Love for Anthony swap what do you think you could get for Love? I’m sure Boston would want him but would they give up the Nets pick? I’m not sure they would- I think they’d be much more likely to give up the 2018 pick given how good this draft looks. I don’t think Love has that much more value for the Knicks than Melo does- more efficient scorer and better rebounder but is a crappy defender and plays the same position as KP so not really part of a rebuild. I’d make the trade no matter what because Love is more moveable than Melo but I do wonder what his value is around the league- my guess is you’re not going to get a top eight pick for him unless the C’s really think he’s the missing piece to challenging for a title.

    146. LBJ railing about the Cav’s roster deficiencies is very heartening. He has the clout to help us move Melo. But we need to acquire real assets in the process and not just engage in an “addition by subtraction” exchange. Melo has good value to a team that is contending like the Cavs.

      P.S. I’d trade them Noah too if they were interested.

      Maybe a three-way with the Wolves and Rubio?

    147. If Stephen A Smith is right that Cleveland might be willing to do a Love for Anthony swap what do you think you could get for Love? I’m sure Boston would want him but would they give up the Nets pick?

      That’s a great question. I think you could definitely get into the 2017 Draft, but yeah, not that Nets pick. The 2018 Nets pick is a more likely scenario, which I guess I could live with.

    148. That’s a great question. I think you could definitely get into the 2017 Draft, but yeah, not that Nets pick. The 2018 Nets pick is a more likely scenario, which I guess I could live with.

      Even Le Bron can’t be stupid enough to swap Melo for Love. Boston would even be denser not to trade a lifetime 20 and 10 guy with a career ws/48 of .183 (.189 this season) for an unknown with their roster ready to win now, Plus Love is very white which is never a bad thing in Boston.

    149. Two draft experts have Frank Ntilikina going between 8th and 10th. After him the level of PG talent in this draf tsinks very very low. We’re fucking 12th. If you’re telling me tanking to get a top 10 pick wouldn’t make a difference? It makes the difference between finding a young new PG or extending Derrick Rose.

    150. That’s a great question. I think you could definitely get into the 2017 Draft, but yeah, not that Nets pick. The 2018 Nets pick is a more likely scenario, which I guess I could live with.

      That’s still likely to be a better pick than anything we could get this year for Melo, baring an unlikely Nets revival in 2017…….*touches wooden table*

    151. If Ntilikina is so good then why is he ranked so low? Is he a sure thing? How many years would it take him to be able to lead an NBA contender?
      Could we trade our 12th pick plus, say O’Quinn, during the draft to move up with a team not looking for a long term PG project, to snag this wunderkind?

    152. @180

      If Ntilikina is so good then why is he ranked so low?

      Because he’s 18. Because he’s a Euro. Because this is a very deep draft. Because he’s been buried in Strasbourg by a veteran PG. He went to the U18, played against the best young talent in Europe his age and wrecked the tournament. If he were an American kid playing in college he’d be high up the list with guys like Fultz, Ball, Smith, Monk, etc.

      Is he a sure thing?

      I will tell you this and mark my words – that kid is going to at least be a very, very plus defender at the NBA level. The only question scouts have is whether or not he refines his handle enough and develops the burst that NBA caliber PGs need to run an offense. If he does, you have a total stud.

    153. So why can’t we not tank on purpose and then look to move up a few spots on draft day to snag him? Isn’t this a common practice?

    154. the thing with the Knicks is this team is very deep with mediocre players. Like if we wanted to tank, who do we not play? You bench O’Quinn and Noah to play Plumlee and Billy? They might be just as good. Jennings are Rose are both pretty bad. etc

    155. Can we ask our players to tie their shoes together accidentally on purpose? Would that conform to NBA rules?

    156. Why do people think the 2017 Nets pick is off the table? In a guard heavy draft with no blue chip PF prospects (Harry Giles looked great last night but whatever), with Bradley and Thomas on their roster in their primes, and no prospect regarded as highly as KAT, KD, and AD (likely because those guys were 7 feet tall), Boston would trade that pick for Kevin Love yesterday.

      If I were evil and therefore a fan of the Celtics, I would be pissed if we let a 1st round pick get in the way of seeing Isaiah Thomas, Avery Bradley, Jae Crowder, Kevin Love, and Al Horford all coached by Wonder Boy Brad Stevens. That would be stupid.

    157. If it’s the case that we’re actually going full tank and trading Melo in a three teamer with boston, I might actually want the BK 2018 pick *more* than I want the BK 2017 pick. Here’s why: the 2017 pick is the right to swap positions with Brooklyn. If we went full tank and traded Melo for the 2017 BK pick, we’d probably be swapping from ~8-10 to ~1-3. So we’d essentially be moving 5-6 spots up. Meanwhile, if we trade for the 2018 pick, BK is likely to still be as bad as they were this year, but instead of a swap this year, we have our #9 pick this year, and then 2 first round draft picks next year, one in the top 5 and another that is possibly in the top 10 (since by hypothesis we’d be rebuilding.) That, combined with the fact that it’s probably easier to convince Boston to part with a pick that lands in a less heralded draft makes it eminently doable. Perhaps we could poach Minnesota’s 2017 2nd from them, as well. This also has the salutary effect of fucking over Brooklyn a little bit more by not giving them a top 10 pick this year (ha!)

      We could come out with a haul of: Fox/Ntilikina/Bridges + Luka Doncic next year (who looks excellent.) That’s really solid.

      Theoretical mega-trade: http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=jknjd4l

      We’d probably only be able to get one of BK’s 2018 pick or Jaylen brown from boston, though. But if you don’t get Brown I bet you could get the BK 2018 pick and MN’s 2nd rounder.

      That being said Stephen A. is not a reliable source on anything.

    158. I forgot that the 2017 Net’s pick was just a swap- so yeah I’d take the 2018 pick over that. And I’d agree that Melo for Love is doubtful but if they keep on struggling I wouldn’t be shocked- Melo’s rep among players remains pretty high and if LBJ signs off… I think you might also have to figure out a way to get Jennings to the Cavs- could you swap Jennings straight up for the Dunleavy trade exception and still do the Love Melo swap? Sadly, Cleveland upcoming schedule is so easy that I doubt they’ll get so panicked they’d consider making a move for Melo.

    159. Y’all are confused. If Boston was to trade the 2017 pick, they would have to trade their own pick with the right to swap that pick, and that pick only, with Brooklyn. We would keep our pick. We just get the better of Brooklyn’s or Celtics’ pick. But there is absolutely no way Cleveland is stupid enough to trade Love for Melo, so forget it.

    160. Even if it’s been since the 90s since you felt this way, remember when you really had to ask yourself if Phil was playing 3D chess? His run with the Knicks has been like the twist ending of a movie- it’s obvious now looking back he’s just been a fucking kook the whole time.

    161. Not sure how the trade exceptions would work in this equation. But if you didn’t use any and wanted to package Jennings (which would be a good idea) you’d have to include Richard Jefferson. And Lebron really likes RJ, so I’m not sure that would fly. It looks like BJ would be able to be absorbed by the Dunleavy or Varejao exception, though.

    162. Y’all are confused. If Boston was to trade the 2017 pick, they would have to trade their own pick with the right to swap that pick, and that pick only, with Brooklyn. We would keep our pick. We just get the better of Brooklyn’s or Celtics’ pick. But there is absolutely no way Cleveland is stupid enough to trade Love for Melo, so forget it.

      Ah, ok. And yeah, it’s not happening.

    163. We need Lebron not to fail us now so he can begin to wreck another team with his demands because I don’t see a GM willing to trade Love in his prime for a fading Melo. If we can play that against Doc Rivers’ desperation to win now and keep Chris Paul it would be a bidding war.

    164. You guys underestimate the power of LeBron James. He got Tristan Thompson a max contract and JR Smith $57M. You think he wouldn’t make Cleveland trade Kevin Love for Carmelo Anthony?

    165. I thought that James’s comment was just that they need a good backup PG, not a star like Melo. Aren’t they pretty happy with Love, now?

      What could they give for Jennings?

    166. Tank or no Tank I think the Knicks need to trade O’Quinn, Jennings, and Kuz(Fan Favorite) by the deadline. Hopefully they can pick up a couple of 1sts and a few second rd picks. Maybe even use a second rd pick to get Tim Frazier out of N.O. before Cleveland goes after him. However, I do not think Cleveland has any real assets to trade to get anyone. Their 1sts rd picks are tied up until 2020 which may be a nice asset if their are no restrictions because by that time Cleveland could be really bad.

      I guess they could trade Shump who is having a great shooting year but would teams trust him to keep that up?

    167. I don’t disagree, but how would that be “tank or no tank”? No way they trade those guys unless they are tanking, right?

    168. It depends on what they get in return and if Willy is as good as his numbers say he are. I would want draft picks but if they could pick up Frazier, to make sure they have a back up next year, they’d be better.

    Comments are closed.