2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks @ Pacers

Here’s the thing about the Eastern Conference.

The Pacers are not good. They are just flat out not a good team. They absolutely should tear their team down, trade Paul George and rebuild around Myles Turner. They are not a good team and their future does not look particularly bright. Also? They’re the #7 seed in the East! They’re just one game behind being the #5 seed in the Eastern Conference!

But get this – they’re also only four games ahead of the Knicks! The biggest trap for the Knicks on their way to getting a top 10 pick in the NBA Draft is that the Eastern Conference is just filled with shitty teams like the Indiana Pacers who really aren’t really that different than the Knicks.

The Knicks’ current SRS is a woeful -2.96. The Pacers? Who are currently in the playoff picture at a game over .500? They’re at -2.43!! That’s insane! The Pacers have also had by far the easiest schedule in the NBA (the Knicks have had the 11th easiest schedule, so we can’t even blame their shittiness on a tough schedulue). Only four teams in the Eastern Conference even have a positive SRS! This Conference is so bad that it will be very difficult for the Knicks to lose enough games to get a top 10 draft pick unless the Knicks make some moves for the future (like starting dealing Melo’s teammates until Melo agrees to leave, too) or they improbably just lose every close game from here on out (which just doesn’t work, statistically).

They’re in a stretch of winnable games here. Let’s hope that they don’t win them.

Let’s go, Knicks?

169 replies on “2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks @ Pacers”

We could very easily be 23-23 without having played any better and there’s be a loud clamor to extend clutch winner Derrick Rose for 25 million a season

another good reason why you should be gm dred – you’re 100% correct…we definitely caught a bit of a break with our record as far as trying to extend rose…

Yeah, honestly, to be frank, this is about the most hopeful I’ve been about this team in years, and it mostly revolves around them just being so bad at their jobs that the team will hopefully not try to keep them and will instead get a good draft pick. But it all ultimately falls on Jackson as to whether he wants to rebuild or not. I don’t think he does.

So while I’m hopeful, I’m also realistic enough to know that they’re not going to keep losing these close games all the time. The rest of the East is just so damned shitty.

Why exactly should they trade George? I mean, he’s on a reasonable salary and is a rare two-way star. Plus, Myles Turner has Miles to go before Turning into a star (sorry). I think he’s a fine player, even more if you consider he was drafted with a 11th choice, but I don’t see him being able to carry a team right now or even in the future. Regarding this aspect, I think KP is way ahead of him (i.e. showing sings of being able to carry a franchise). The Pacers have at least until the end of the next season to see where they can go. If they want, they can trade PG after that.

Paul George is a good player, but he’s treated like a superstar. He’s not (he might have been on the way there before the injury, but not anymore). He’s a lot like Melo, honestly, although their best attributes are on different ends of the court. He’s just good enough that he’ll keep the team from being able to do a full rebuild. They’re going to be stuck in mediocrity for years, which is not a good place to be. It’s not even necessarily much of a compliment to Turner (although I do like him) and more a knock on the rest of the roster that he’s the only one there worth building around. Meanwhile, since George is treated like a superstar, that means they can get a ton of assets in return for him.

I think Jax does want to do a rebuild. He asked Melo if he wants to remain here after Melo has said everything to the contrary the past few years.

Maybe he wants to tank this year and next then try to build a winner after that.

@5

Well, I mean, he hasn’t done exactly that, but I think he has more tools to do it than Turner. I think he has shown that he can defend and attack on star levels. Of course, rebounding and consistency (edit: AND FOUL TROUBLE, OF COURSE!) are still big concerns here, but IMO he has had some flashes that give me hope that he will be THE guy in NYC for year to come.

I think Jax does want to do a rebuild. He asked Melo if he wants to remain here after Melo has said everything to the contrary the past few years.

Maybe he wants to tank this year and next then try to build a winner after that.

He had the option of doing a rebuild as soon as he got here, when he had the complete support of the NBA public who would have totally bought in on a rebuild at that point, and he chose not to do so. So I don’t see him wanting to do one now.

Well, I mean, he hasn’t done exactly that, but I think he has more tools to do it than Turner. I think he has shown that he can defend and attack on star levels. Of course, rebounding and consistency (edit: AND FOUL TROUBLE, OF COURSE!) are still big concerns here, but IMO he has had some flashes that give me hope that he will be THE guy in NYC for year to come.

Turner, like, leads the league in block percentage, doesn’t he? He’s played strong defense while also shooting 41% from three. I’m not saying that KP won’t be a better player than Turner, but so far, Turner is showing up very well for himself this season on both offense and defense, so I don’t think it’s obvious that KP will be better than him, especially since Turner is half a year younger than KP.

We all going to not talk about that free throw?

I’m just going to pretend like it never happened. Alternative facts!

Seriously, though, one of the fun things about sports is that any night can bring something historic, like the worst NBA free throw shot ever.

I think having Kristaps changes the public perception on a rebuild. Most people already agree that we should be the cornerstone going forward as Melo continues to decline.

As bad a GM he has been he still knows this is a terrible team that isn’t competing with Melo. This is all speculation of course, what he does by the deadline will give us an idea as to wether we’re rebuilding or not.

Where is Frank O. to enlighten us with his alternate facts? I can’t trust what my eyes are seeing in this game.

Shit, I mentioned it to a friend and he countered with a Chuck Hayes free throw that admittedly was worse. Hayes, like, put a hitch in the shot as soon as it left his hands, so that there was no way it could possibly hit the basket.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffdfY89TsPs

Noah’s shot at least looked like a typical ugly Noah free throw shot leaving his hands.

This team is awful and Kristaps needs to change something because he’s been awful. That Achilles is still an issue

As bad a GM he has been he still knows this is a terrible team that isn’t competing with Melo. This is all speculation of course, what he does by the deadline will give us an idea as to wether we’re rebuilding or not.

Oh, definitely agreed, we’ll see what he’s thinking by his deadline moves (or lack thereof). No moves means no rebuild (or even worse, he might buy at the deadline, you never know with this guy).

KPs shot is so short and flat. Absolutely zero lift–maybe that’s the Achilles!

Shut him down for the love of god

Yeah, KP needs to be shut down for awhile. It’s painful watching him play right now. Having said that he’ll probably thrown down a crazy putback dunk and hit a few 3’s in the 2nd half.

Ok, not the best night to argue that Porzingis is better than Turner.

@12

OK, Cronin, thank you for the facts. Turner, actually, is having a better season than I thought. My bad. But if the coaching staff put KP nearer the basket, to protect the paint, and not running to cover the 3-point line, he, and not Turner, would lead the league in BLK% (wishful thinking).

What happened to this team? They have totally imploded. They don’t belong on an NBA floor.

I wonder if KP still thinks he has the soft Euro label attached to him. Forcing himself to play through this injury.

34 point quarter just another day for the New York Knickerbockers, alleged National Basketball Association team

Philadelphia is better than us I’m pretty sure

How sad is that

There is no way you can convince me that Reggie Miller helps ratings.

this times 10…seriously – reggie miller sucks as an announcer…

Worst part of listening to Reggie Miller is that you just _know_ he’s gloating inside over the Knicks futility.

4 points 3 rebounds and a block in 3 minutes…

Noah should really never play. He’s just terrible by comparison to our young guns.

Willy should be playing as many minutes as his hustle permits. He has really good low post footwork and catches the ball well on the way to the rim. If he can defend his position, he could be a rotation player on a playoff team.

I am amazed that we’re in this game. It’s a disaster. Sad.

The East, man, the shitty, shitty East.

Willy out Al Jeffersoned Al Jefferson

That hook shot and footwork was absurd

Willy looking like a rich man’s Jahlil Okafor (ha!)

The East can be ours for the taking.

Get Rubio. Play Willy.
Play Holiday. Play Kyle.
Sit Noah.

Carmelo looks 100x better at PF like we all knew

Watch the Pacers start the 3rd quarter on a 10-0 run when Noah and Porzingis are on the floor.

Unless the hallucinogens have worn off.

I don’t think I’ve seen a KP pick n pop in 10-15 games

Having holiday and Willy on this team is why you have to throw your old blender when you buy a vitamix so you don’t feel so dumb

Melo with 3 long contested jump shots to make sure the Pacers stay within striking distance

@70

tank is boring & depressing

17 fucking years of perennial mediocrity are what is boring and depressing.

If it’s any consolation to the tank advocates, Miami just beat Golden State which helps the cause.

Billy is the glacier sinking the Tanktanic ATM

No, Miami winning doesn’t make me feel better. That’s another game we should have gained. This is such bullhit. Phil better man up and tell Melo he’s scrapping this mess.

Derrick Rose is doing an admirable job stepping into the role of tank commander while Lance is convalescing

That Rose crossover into shot clock violation airball while KP was sitting there for a 3 might be the worst play Rose ever made as a Knick

oh my god Derrick Rose really is the tank commander

Melo an Rose valiantly trying to wrest defeat from the jaws of victory for the tank!!!

Melo is either a double-double agent working for the resistance or else he’s just raising his stock for a trade.

We scored but how dumb are we not to take a quicker shot so that we get the ball back again if we missed.

If Derrick Rose is out there on D for this Indiana possession, then Horny is stealth tanking.

This is horrible. If anyone is wondering if our starters are holding us back this game proved it. Melo and Rose almost cost us this game. Fucking bullshit. We should have lost this game and moved towards a tank.

It should never have been this close. Horney should have left the starting 5 in there in Q3 and never have built that big lead in the first place.

I knew this game would cost us a loss. Indiana seems to play down to our level. And now we go to Dallas. Bad stretch of winnable games here.

Tanking aside…. this kp being awful is an alarming trend… and im almost positive that he is not healthy….

I dont care what else is going on…. but someone needs to intervene and sit this guy…. nothing else is more important than this guys health…

Yay Knicks?

My Dad used to say a draw in sports is like dancing with your sister. I feel every win from here on out will be the Knicks dancing with their sister (so the Liberty? I don’t know).

Turner looks like a slimmer KAT right now. He’s is bawling!

Looking more and more like the steal of the 2015 draft. I think we knew that after last year though.

Turner looks like a slimmer KAT right now. He’s is bawling!

Seriously. And a #11 pick!! Frank Kaminsky got picked ahead of him!

This is going to suck if we don’t get rid of some people. We’re not going to the playoffs, will finish outside a lottery pick and accomplish nothing for another season.

I was at The Dion Waiters Game down in Miami so I missed this one, but not good.

What’s gonna sink first? The SS Ntilikina or the SS Cavaliers? The Cavs, playing LeBron for 43 minutes, lost to the Pelicans without Anthony Davis, can you believe it? Since their Christmas victory against the Warriors, they’re playing 0.500 basketbll. Good result for the Knicks draft aspirations, though…

Turner looks like a slimmer KAT right now. He’s is bawling!

Seriously. And a #11 pick!! Frank Kaminsky got picked ahead of him!

I liked KP but I was always okay with trading down and taking Turner.

Turner looks like a slimmer KAT right now. He’s is bawling!

Seriously. And a #11 pick!! Frank Kaminsky got picked ahead of him!

Our weekly reminder of how bad a talent evaluator MJ is. At least he drafted Kemba…

If the Knicks miss the playoffs they get a lottery pick. The first 14 picks in the draft are lottery picks.

If the Knicks miss the playoffs they get a lottery pick. The first 14 picks in the draft are lottery picks.

Not a real lottery pick. Picking 10-14th isn’t accomplishing shit for us.

The easiest thing to do in the NBA is tank.
But how many teams became champs or even contenders through repeated tanking ?

Also if you can pick Kawhi on 15 FUCK TANKING & SCOUT YOUR ASS OFF if you want to WIN.

I was at The Dion Waiters Game down in Miami so I missed this one, but not good.

Can’t believe that Miami starting 5 pulled this off. Luke Babbitt?? And who the hell is Rodney McKrueger?

But how many teams became champs or even contenders through repeated tanking ?

Cleveland has tanked its way to Kyrie Irving, being able to acquire Kevin Love (in a trade for Wiggins), and then using that to attract Lebron back.

Now answer me this. How many teams have become champs or even contenders through repeated 35-40 game seasons? None.

Also if you can pick Kawhi on 15 FUCK TANKING & SCOUT YOUR ASS OFF if you want to WIN.

The Spurs were a championship team before they picked Kwahi Leonard.

Billups/wallace Pistons, isaiah pistons, dantoni suns, webber kings, the 90s knicks, the 90s rockets, the dirk mavs…

I mean the warriors went through a few seasons as the 7 or 8 seed before they turned into what they are too…. its more common than you think….

LeBron re-signed with Cleveland before they traded for Love. Without LeBron I doubt Love nominates for Cleveland. Cleveland also got the the no. 1 pick after a 33 win season and a 1.7% chance of picking first.

@149

Each of these teams you mention didn’t acquire the talent they won their championship with until they hit bottom. They didn’t add their championship core AFTER they became mediocre, but developed a core that worked its way to mediocrity and then championship contention. So, unless you believe this Knicks team as currently composed can progress into a championship contender this comparison with the early 2010-13 Warriors doesn’t make any sense.

And I guarantee you that if we trot out this same lineup next season, and the one after that we still be a 35-40 game type team – maybe worse. That’s the difference. Those teams were young, up and coming, had upside to develop together. Ours is the opposite – its core is mostly past its prime, fading and going nowhere.

Chicago got no.1 too after 33 win season too for what it’s worth. I still maintain the no.1 picks Cleveland and Chicago got were pretty shady though.

@150

Lebron came to Cleveland knowing full well they had the assets to trade to get a player like Love to pair with him and Kyrie. He was no fool. And, yes, they got lucky with a 33 win season. That’s part of every rebuild plan, tank or not.

Point is there are many ways to build a contender but all of it entails getting good players.. all the teams i mentioned had a favorable trade along with drafted players developing and a coaching change….

Tanking is one way but its not the only way… kp and wily is a nice foundation imo… and the difference between the #10 -12 pick to me isnt something to be stressed out about…..

if we make the playoffs somehow i might be a little worried… but aside from kp either badly regressing or playing hurt…. things are going about as well as one would hope this season….

those crazy knickerbockers won another game – hahahahahahahahaha…

nobody wins with the knicks – no one…

glad for the folks in the locker room…

haven’t looked at the box score – but, why does horny have him playing all those minutes, melo looks exhausted out there at times…

so – i guess the ron baker experiment is over…at times, it feels like horny is just picking names out of a hat…

oh yeah, legit question: do you think at any time melo ever said to phil – “i’ll be here when you’re gone”…

I would feel a lot better about the inevitable 12th pick if we had another mid- late 1st to accompany it. If we could get someone like Josh Hart, Kennard or Justin Jackson + the lotto pick that would be a pretty great.

It’s like Too Big To Fail. The Knicks are too slightly good to succeed by failing.

This is why it is hard to even be kind of hopeful about this team, as it is just too realistic to see them getting back into the playoff picture.

so – i guess the ron baker experiment is over…at times, it feels like horny is just picking names out of a hat…

If it’s anything like KOQ minutes, it will likely have a lot to do with match ups as he has mentioned in the past (that said Billy is doing a nice job keeping him out).

Regarding Hornacek’s rotations. Remember the lineup that came back against the Pacers after the Knicks were down by eleventy million? Baker was a big part of that and tonight he was a DNP-CD. Weird.

This is why it is hard to even be kind of hopeful about this team, as it is just too realistic to see them getting back into the playoff picture.

This would be a really confusing statement outside of KB.

Also good point on Ron. Jennings decent play could have held out Ron tonight.

Point is there are many ways to build a contender but all of it entails getting good players..

Isn’t the chance of getting the good player increased by drafting higher in the lottery order?

“We’ve been losing closing games … we lose another one like that guys probably would’ve quit, called it a year probably,” Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek said.

Now I am depressed. Its amazing how inept this franchise is. It can’t even get tanking right. We were so close, yet far away.

Its a mediocre team. The only bad thing about tonight was agreeing with Reggie Miller that Bily should play more

This is what happens when you wake up at 5 AM thinking about the Knicks. Being a Knick fan on the tank is a little like being poor Uncle Sol:

nobody loses all the time

by e. e. cummings

i had an uncle named
Sol who was a born failure and
nearly everybody said he should have gone
into vaudeville perhaps because my Uncle Sol could
sing McCann He Was A Diver on Xmas Eve like Hell Itself which
may or may not account for the fact that my Uncle

Sol indulged in that possibly most inexcusable
of all to use a highfalootin phrase
luxuries that is or to
wit farming and be
it needlessly
added

my Uncle Sol’s farm
failed because the chickens
ate the vegetables so
my Uncle Sol had a
chicken farm till the
skunks ate the chickens when

my Uncle Sol
had a skunk farm but
the skunks caught cold and
died so
my Uncle Sol imitated the
skunks in a subtle manner

or by drowning himself in the watertank
but somebody who’d given my Unde Sol a Victor
Victrola and records while he lived presented to
him upon the auspicious occasion of his decease a
scrumptious not to mention splendiferous funeral with
tall boys in black gloves and flowers and everything and

i remember we all cried like the Missouri
when my Uncle Sol’s coffin lurched because
somebody pressed a button
(and down went
my Uncle
Sol

and started a worm farm)

Respectfully, the tank schtick is jumping the shark. Why don’t we start posting about how we should trade Melo and Rose for Durant and Curry? It’s about as likely as the Knicks tanking at this point.

@168

Oh, its no shtick. The problem is that we’re practically tanking by trotting out the same shitty starting lineup. They almost blew the game again. The problem, as always is the case in Knicksland, is that the franchise can’t even fully commit to failing so instead of having a top 3 lottery pick in the coming draft we’ll have to settle for a 12th lottery pick and still no playoff series to watch. In the end, its still failing – just a half-assed form of failing that pretends to be competitively playing for some meaningful playoff basketball when the reality is that we’re a bad team going nowhere.

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