Knicks Morning News (2017.01.09)

  • [NYTimes] Keeping Score: Ron Baker, Knicks’ Third-String Point Guard, Provides Lift
    (Monday, January 09, 2017 1:17:34 AM)

    The fourth-quarter play of Baker, a little-used option behind Derrick Rose and Brandon Jennings, helped end a six-game losing streak and injected offense into the game that followed.

  • [NYPost] Knicks are sick of their own excuses
    (Sunday, January 08, 2017 8:18:19 AM)

    Brandon Jennings says there can be no more excuses that the Knicks are still getting to know each other. It’s 37 games in — closing in on the halfway mark — and the Knicks are worse than mediocre at 17-20. In his usual candid way, Jennings reiterated Kristaps Porzingis’ remarks that the Knicks haven’t played well…

  • [ESPN] Monday’s Knicks News: Ron Baker steps up when given minutes
    (Monday, January 09, 2017 5:34:49 AM)

    Monday’s Knicks News: Ron Baker steps up when given minutes

  • [NYDN] Knicks realist Porzingis says there’s so much room to grow
    (Sunday, January 08, 2017 11:10:14 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis called it back then, when everybody else was drinking the Kool Aid: the Knicks were winning, but not as a team.

  • [NYDN] Knicks defense once again absent in blowout loss to Pacers
    (Sunday, January 08, 2017 7:43:23 AM)

    The Knicks better hope this is close to rock bottom.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks need more from Rose to help right ship
    (Sunday, January 08, 2017 10:54:14 AM)

    Derrick Rose can play a pivotal role in helping the Knicks turn things back around.

  • [SNY Knicks] TheKnicksBlog Podcast: 6 Feet Deep
    (Sunday, January 08, 2017 9:15:42 AM)

    Anthony Donahue and Moke Hamilton are back for their first show of 2017, and they are not happy as the past two weeks have certainly taken a toll.

  • [NY Newsday] Struggling Knicks have been relying on talent, not team basketball
    (Sunday, January 08, 2017 7:30:57 PM)

    The Knicks were riding high when they were four games over .500 a little less than a month ago, but not everyone believed they would continue to climb.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    354 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.09)”

    1. The new media narrative circulating about this Knicks team is very interesting. There’s been a subtle shift with how its leadership is being perceived by sports writers since KP’s post-Indiana loss reminder that he never felt the Knicks were playing that well to begin with, even when they had their best winning record. First it was the NY Post article, and now its the NY Daily News piece about how Porzingis, followed by Jennings, remains the team’s only sober “realist spokesman” willing to openly diagnose hard truths about their season play in light of Melo’s uninspired complaining and Noah’s terseness with the sports media.

    2. “DRed was right the whole time”

      -Kristaps Porzingis

      They obviously study Pythagoras in Latvian schools.

    3. If the Knicks traded Melo, they could really only expect a Vince Carter to the Nets, Ewing trade kinda return. I mean, maybe you’d get a 2nd or two, but probably not even that when Melo has an NTC. You aren’t getting a 1st, you aren’t getting a promising player still on his rookie deal.

      It won’t shock you when I say the VC and Ewing trades set both teams down a pretty awful path. As much as it might scratch an itch to jettison the man, I think our best course of action is to let Melo’s deal expire. Hopefully the city and press excoriate him over the next season and a half and he opts out of the last year. He’s owed $27 million plus, so I dunno about that one. You could threaten to stretch-waive him and maybe it shames him into bailing, but again probably not.

    4. in reading the above, I think our only hope for the future is to get DRed to waive his NTC, deal him the the Pelicans blog now for youth and picks. but, I’m not sure how the salaries will match up

    5. I dunno..I kinda like DRed’s forays to the board. Just what this offense needs at times

    6. From last thread:
      I don’t think Kaminsky, Lyles, et. al. are good examples. They were already highly ranked players independent of their tournament play and were picked right about where they should have based on their pre-tournament reps.

      They were both going to be first round picks, but I think Kamnisky’s performance got him into the top ten and I think Lyles’ performance got him into the lottery. Perhaps not as significant as a jump as Curry, Wade and Heyward, but some forward movement based on their NCAA Tournament performance. I just thought of a better example from that draft though, Sam Dekker getting into the top 20 picks. He had early second rounder written all over him until his Tourney performance.

      The point is that their NCAA tournament performance was not out of line with their overall play in college. Sam Dekker is a better example, but he has put up good numbers thus far as a pro. Frank and Trey are performing about as well as should be expected at this time, given the questions about them, tournament or no tournament. On first glance, it seems like pretty much of a wash.

      Maybe a better example is Cleanthony Early.

    7. OK, so what are the draft ranges for these three players?

      1. Frank Ntilikina
      2. OG Anunoby
      3. Luke Kennard

    8. It won’t shock you when I say the VC and Ewing trades set both teams down a pretty awful path.

      The Raptors tanked the season after they got rid of Carter and then won 47 games the following year. They did then fall apart after that, but I think that was, like the Knicks, more a case of bad GMing than being hurt by the Carter deal.

    9. Random NCAA tourney useless un-scientific factoid: I think something like 13 out of 20 starters from the 2005 Final Four were on NBA rosters in 2005 and 2006, plus Marvin “Fuckin’ #2 Overall Pick Who Couldn’t Even Start On His College Team Are You Serious” Williams. I’m “sure” that NBA “smart people” in front offices know not to use NCAA tourney results to pick players anymore, but it sure seems like there were a lot of idiots wasting picks on players like Sean May in the mid-1st round.

      Like, what if Marvin Williams’ go-ahead shot in the final led to him being drafted over Chris Paul? What if Mike Woodson saw that play and was like, “MW never would have let his team lose in the 2nd round like that scrub Chris Paul did. Plus, we’ve already got Tyronn Lue and Kenny Anderson, so we’re all set on guards.” What if that actually probably definitely happened?

    10. If we magically get Ntilikina I think we should reward him with a nickname similar to how Embiid is called “The Process”. We should call him Frank “The Tank”.

    11. OK, so what are the draft ranges for these three players?

      1. Frank Ntilikina
      2. OG Anunoby
      3. Luke Kennard

      from an unscientific aggregate of the draft boards I’ve looked at and my own hunches:

      Ntilikina: 6-12 (probably 6-8)
      OG: 8-12 (probably 8-10)
      Kennard, currently: 16-25 (probably late teens)

    12. #16

      Silky, lets play a hypothetical game here. Let’s say by miracle we suck hard enough and get a lucky 1985 type miracle in the lottery where the Knicks end up picking #1st.

      Would you rather end up trading that #1 pick to the Sixers for both their pick and the pick they get from the Lakers that project to land at #3 and #7 in this draft? The third overall pick would get us Ntilikina. I bet we could trade down for the 7th and get a #10 and late first pick to have a shot at Anunoby and Kennard.

      So I guess my question is this: would you rather have a Fultz or a shot at drafting Ntilikina, Anunoby, and Kennard?

    13. I probably go with Fultz.

      The biggest problem with this team, though, is that I don’t think they’re going to miss the playoffs. These next two games will be huge. If they don’t win these next two games, then I will believe that the tank might actually happen. But I think they’re winning these next two games.

    14. Under the CBA to effect after this season, Randle would have been signed to a two-contract by the Knicks with the 16th or 17th slot and Philly would not have been in a position to bring him on board.

    15. kennard will be the bottom half of the first rd… he’s pretty good… although i’m not sure if he’s a lottery talent if he can’t get his steal rate to tick up by the end of the year…. dwayne bacon is probably a better prospect….

      ntilikina for all his physical attributes isn’t even playing pg and not playing much on his current team… he’s young but he’s further behind than all the other highly touted freshman pg’s… imo he should be a mid first rd pick… but inevitably he’ll get rated higher like exum and mudiay did because of their size…

    16. #19

      Man, Brian, our depth is so shot I would go with the quantity over quality strategy. A chance to get a lockdown 3 and D SF, a high upside PG, and a crafty, lights out shooting 2 guard would trump the chance to draft an all around stud like Fultz in my book.

    17. Man the Sixers are like Belichick. Signing Randle before we play just to find out Baker’s weaknesses. Cold. Reub is not gonna be happy that Phil reverse Wroten’d him when he gets to the Western Union counter at the St. Michael Price Smart after Bingo.

    18. Under the CBA to effect after this season, Randle would have been signed to a two-contract by the Knicks with the 16th or 17th slot and Philly would not have been in a position to bring him on board.

      Yeah, that’s exactly what I was just thinking. Then again, knowing Phil, #16 and #17 might be guaranteed contracts to Lou Amundson and Shannon Brown.

    19. Man, Brian, our depth is so shot I would go with the quantity over quality strategy. A chance to get a lockdown 3 and D SF, a high upside PG, and a crafty, lights out shooting 2 guard would trump the chance to draft an all around stud like Fultz in my book.

      The depth is shot, to be sure, but if they’re going for a slow rebuild, they have time to build the depth. They don’t have time to build up star young players (of course, they’re not going for a slow rebuild, but you know what I mean).

    20. Mudiay is poor comp. They played in very different leagues. Exum wasn’t as talented. I can tell you watching the Euroleague tournament that this Mudiay kid was the best player on that floor at age 18.

    21. u18 tourney’s aren’t indicative of anything… he was the oldest player on the floor and good prospects have to shine in that environment… it’s like a senior in college… exum had a few good showings in the u18 fiba tourney’s also….

      now it could be that his coach is just really bad as is often the case overseas… but his numbers are kind of mediocre in the limited time that he’s been on the court…. his upside is probably higher due to his size but there’s a higher bust rate for guys like ntilikina….

    22. Fultz is such an outstanding prospect that I wouldn’t trade down in that scenario. I can’t really remember the last time I saw such a well-rounded guard prospect. On offense he has incredible slashing ability and finishes well around the rim, but also has a developed jump shot with great mechanics. Shoots the 3 well. He’s a creative and willing passer, excels in the pick and roll, excels in transition. Highly athletic, great leaping ability even off one foot, elite handle, body control is reminiscent of elite guards like Jordan and James Harden. Defensively he uses his length well, plays good man defense and is a ball hawk, adept at jumping passing lanes and getting chasedown blocks. He could maybe work on his shot selection a little bit, but he’s on a terrible Washington Huskies team that doesn’t have a lot of offensive weapons, so he’s asked to do a lot on offense.

      I love his game.

    23. @10, you know what, I only remembered the players moved but they also got two late 1sts in the deal. Still, 1sts used to be traded much more freely (we even got a couple for Ewing). If we get even one for Melo, it will be in the 27-30 range.

      My faulty memory aside, I’m sticking with the initial position- the best we can do with Melo at this point is to let him play out his deal. If he does request a trade, let him know we won’t do it unless we like the return. Best case there being he relents enough to allow us two teams as potential trade partners.

    24. Unless Randle grows 4 inches, learns to take care of the ball better, or learns to distribute, I can’t really lose my shit over losing him

    25. “In the moment we were four games out of .500, I said it — I don’t see ourselves as that good of a team yet,’’ Porzingis said in his season’s most candid remarks. “We were still growing. We were winning games, but we still had a lot to learn. It was a good moment based on our talent, but we weren’t there yet and now it’s showing. We got to figure this out and keep growing as a team. It’s not coming together yet. It’s frustrating.’’

      so KP comes from a “basketball” family, whom he’s really tight with…no doubt in my mind that a lot of the “realistic” chatter on this site, goes on in the porzingis home (maybe they’re even discussing the old pythagorean theorem)…

      i just can’t wait another year or so when kp starts looking down at his teammates and tells them exactly what time it is, and, what they need to do to play as a team…i think his personality screams team leader all over…

    26. Lonzo Ball has better efficiency numbers than Fultz, but Fultz beats Ball in TOV% and AST%, TRB%, BLK%, STL%. Fultz also has sky-high usage on his bad Washington team, while Ball has a lower-usage role on his elite UCLA team.

    27. I guess. Fultz’s numbers are better than Paul’s college numbers I guess, so that’s something. I just was expecting him to be ridiculously dominant.

      I haven’t seen either of those guys play, excited to do so.

    28. fultz has better numbers than wall…. and he actually compares very favorably to wade which he’ll probably either be a westbrook or kyrie type of pg or actually just a sg….

    29. Markelle Fultz is the best player in this draft, hands down. If Harry Giles’ knees hold up, he could potentially have a better career because that kid is Kevin Garnett Part 2. Fultz is a player that crosses all the checklists though. He’s elite at pretty much everything. I agree with JK47; there has never been a guard prospect as well rounded as he is, and he turns 19 in late May. You can’t beat that.

      Lonzo Ball is definitely Jason Kidd with a jumper, though. This PG class is the best I can remember.

    30. Disappointed we weren’t able to sit on Randle for a bit longer, but I am not super bummed about Philly giving him a 10 day. Probably could have waived N’Dour, Plumlee or Sasha, but that seems like a stretch and I really don’t think a D-league call up is going to answer any problems. Our boy Ron looks to be doing well as the 3rd stringer.

      I like KB when we have a 1st rounder. Would much rather read discussions about how we are going to use it than the perpetual doomsday diatribe.

    31. jayson tatum or jonathan isaac might be better than fultz… they grade out higher than carmelo and slightly behind durant coming out…

    32. The Hawks impressed me with what they got for Korver. Besides the pick, they got Dunleavy and Mo Williams. Reportedly, both the Rockets and the Warriors are interested in Dunleavy, so presumably they could get something for him if they wanted to. Dunleavy himself wants to be waived, so he can sign somewhere else, but Atlanta is talking about using him. Either way, they got a pick, a useful player and Williams for a 35 year old guard. Not bad.

    33. I think Dunleavy is keen to stay now. He reportedly had a pretty good conversation with Budenholzer and he is happy to stay.

    34. He’s also done. Guy makes Korver look like Kawhi on defense these days. The only difference between Dunleavy and Mo Williams is that Mo Willliams knows he’s retired.

    35. Thanks for the news. It sounds like the Hawks will probably find out if he’s done or not

    36. I’ve read a few comments from Budenholzer saying they like they way he fits their roster; so I doubt they would have gone to the trouble of trying to convince him to join the team if they weren’t intending to use him in some capacity. My guess is they have a trade lineup up for TH2 because they reportedly don’t want to pay him.

    37. I’d move Millsap for a sack of potatoes right now. He’s playing terribly (relative to his contract and future contract) and even a 2nd round pick would be a coup, from a production/risk standpoint.

      It’s really weird that it’s 2017 and the Hawks are trying a mini-tank while building around a career year from Dwight Howard — he is having a career high in TS% while averaging 3 more rebounds per 48 than he ever has (!?!).

    38. RAS,

      I’d probably trade for the #3 and the #7, then draft Ball + Anunoby. Fultz looks amazing, but so does Lonzo. I don’t think you can go wrong picking at the top 5 of this draft so long as you avoid Dennis Smith (I don’t think I would pick him with any top 10 pick.) If we traded the 7th for the 10th or something I’d draft Anunoby if he were still there and if not then Miles Bridges plus Terrance Ferguson (or Kennard or Josh Hart) in the 20ish area.

    39. this is a big hit for the tanking squad, I hope it’s nothing and he gets back soon.

    40. Rose was sent down to the D league for tonight to get some minutes now that Ron Baker has passed him in the rotation. : -)

    41. Not sure if I want the Knicks to lose and Rose to be our tank commander or if I want Jennings to shine with the starting unit and thereby indicate that Rose is expendable and tradeable

    42. Only thing hurt on Derek Rose is his pride. Notice how much better we look without him.

    43. it might be because he didn’t play in the 4th quarter of the last couple of games…

      well, the team is better without him, obviously, so I’m hopeful that it’s just a small family issue or something like that.

      I mean, if he gets the Rondo treatment his value will pretty much be a low 2nd at most

    44. Langston! He’s put together a pretty decent year so far, but at least we have Derrick Rose.

    45. The frustrating thing about Rose’s shitty defense is that his replacement might even be worse.

    46. Rose was sent down to the D league for tonight to get some minutes now that Ron Baker has passed him in the rotation. : -)

      very nice…

    47. I love the complete disinterest in this team.

      No game thread, and barely any comments about this in-progress game.

      Thanks, Phil!

    48. KP takes too many turnaround jumpers at this stage of his career

      By all means work on that facet of your game but at this point in his career he should be shooting threes and slashing to the rim for dunks and fouls

    49. this team is so unremarkable and obvious that I don’t think anyone cares that much anymore.

      I just want Rose to come back so he can continue his amazing work captaining the tanking squad.

    50. Hield looks good when he’s shooting 100% from three point range

      He has a sweet stroke

    51. reub is gonna be a castaway on Gilligan’s Island before this season is over

      He’s probably holed up somewhere in Bushwick, plotting a graceful return.

    52. 10 of 15 from downtown so far…how is that even possible…supposedly teams are only shooting 36% against us from three …sure seems like we are always getting lit up from behind the arc…

    53. 2 things:

      1. If Jennings keeps this production up until the trade deadline he’s ideal trade bait to Cleveland or some other contender (he wont, of course.)

      2. we look like a bottom five team

    54. death, taxes and the Knicks allowing sixty in the first half to any mediocre team

    55. Also I see the halftime youth game on league pass and there’s one kid who crossed someone up and buried a fadeaway jumper

      It was the best shot I’ve seen all night. Kids got game.

    56. Words you hear from Knicks announcers every game: “Player X left wide open” and “Player X is normally not a good 3 point shooter, tonight he’s 3-3”

    57. losing the season series against this team would be an integral part of the tank effort

      the pelicans are a main rival

    58. As bad as we are the best case scenario for us might be the 10th pick. Can’t see us out tanking the other teams.

    59. kp 2 for 10…maybe melo isn’t the best basketball “role” model for him…

      this shit is going south fast…

      two years in a row of getting teased in the fall and then having the hammer come down in january…fuck, finally signed up for league pass (didn’t really make sense cuz i don’t get home to after most the games are almost over)…that was stupid…

      guess it’s time to start reading all the “draft” posts…

    60. From Bondy’s article.

      Derrick Rose was a mysterious late scratch to Monday’s game against the Pelicans, with the Knicks only classifying the point guard as “not with the team.”

      A club representative later clarified that this did not mean “personal reasons.”

    61. ?@WojVerticalNBA 2 minutes ago
      Sources: There are team officials, teammates and close associates unclear of reason for Derrick Rose’s absence for Knicks-Pelicans at MSG.

    62. according to the Daily News it’s not personal reasons…

      “Derrick Rose was a mysterious late scratch to Monday’s game against the Pelicans, with the Knicks only classifying the point guard as “not with the team.”

      A club representative later clarified that this did not mean “personal reasons.”

      About 90 minutes earlier, coach Jeff Hornacek said everybody on the roster was available except for forward Mindaugas Kuzminskas, who was dealing with an illness. But Rose never appeared in the locker room or on the court for warmups.”

    63. Rose wants to get paid next year so he doesn’t like the fact that even Knicks management has figured out that he stinks and are playing a D league player over him in the 4th quarter. #mutiny

    64. if it is a mutiny, it would be the most knicksian thing in a very knicksian season.

      maybe it’s the Marbury treatment?

    65. the Brow might end with a 50-20 if the Pelicans don’t take him out because the game is over.

    66. it must be weird for Norman Reedus to be at the MSG watching the walking dead happening on the court.

    67. I mean…is Rose alright? I hope he’s alright. I also hope he’s getting traded.

    68. Melo got ejected………..

      I mean, this couldn’t be any more embarassing, he HAS to ask for a trade right? right?

    69. Melo with the ejection my god this season is a disaster

    70. Well, if Rose’s ego has led him astray, the results of this game will just confirm for him how he feels. Looks very ugly out there.

    71. I picked a bad game to attend. Is that a Flagrant 2? Melo, Oak and Rose are going to Lala’s for meatloaf

    72. I’m gonna be legitimately mad at the Knicks if we injured Anthony Davis

    73. Why did Melo get ejected? I’m watching something else because I don’t hate myself enough to continue with this team.

    74. O’Quinn tried to murder Davis and gets ejected.

      bring on the clowns already, it’s a party!

    75. Someone probably told Rose he had to play defense and he got sand in his vagina over it.

    76. This is such a leaderless team. But finally, Team Pessimist has been proven right. Scrap it all up with the exception of KP and Willy.

    77. Horny has that look of dead man walking, like he knows he’s gonna get the brunt of the blame from the front office for this clown fiesta.

    78. Woof. Started watching my lunch break. Might just take a short lunch and go back to work.

    79. whew, finally got nba league pass to work on the ps4 – too bad the knicks are playing tonight…

    80. This is the worst loss of the season right

      Didn’t we say that about the last loss or the one before that

    81. The NY back pages should just superimpose the Knicks players faces on the Giants WR’s in the boat with the headline the ship be sinking, Team Titanic or something else clever.

    82. I started at 32 and changed it to 37

      I’m sorry I changed it

    83. I am worried about KP not doing well with Rose. His offensive production is way higher with him on the court.

    84. you there GoNy?

      what’s it feel like in the building?

      good thing about the league pass is i get to listen to breen and clyde…probably my favorite crew in all sports…

      so basically jennings and kp talked a little crap about the team – and, they all just folded like a wet noodle…

      shit, i’m down for 47 wins – dumb ass!!!

    85. Jeff needs to coach these young guys though … I don’t like him just sitting there…. he should be up supporting the guys he does have out there…

    86. I kinda miss Ruru, there’s no one else here to tell me I’m not a Knicks fan and should switch teams.

      KP won’t do well for the rest of the season because the team is shit and he’s not ready yet, but he’ll be fine… he’s a smart guy.

    87. 30 point loss at home to a team that is 4-13 on the road. That’s gonna do a number on the old SRS.

      This is one of the worst teams in the NBA.

    88. ECF? Surely not.

      If Rose did indeed just no show the game, what’s the Knicks response? Suspension?

    89. Baker looks better at the 2 like a lot of us suspected

    90. “At least one team official who tried to reach Derrick Rose before the game on Monday was unable to do so, league sources told ESPN.” -Ian Begley Twitter

      Thanks, Phil!

    91. Now we can’t even trade Rose because he’s no showing. Jesus.

      We weren’t getting anything of value in return for Derrick Rose’s sorry ass and his expiring $21M contract in the first place, so no great loss.

    92. I would trade Rose for a half eaten ham sandwich at this point. A point needs to be made after his no show.

    93. Sasha just making trying to make the most of his time out there. Good on him. I mean he’s shit, but he’s certainly an opportunist.

    94. ER is crying himself to sleep in a corner of his bedroom after our championship has been imploded.

    95. Reub is just gonna Reub, I’d love to hear from the more militant optimist crowd (er/swift/Ruru)

    96. I love Mike and Clyde so much.

      the thing is that the “optimists” will probably come and say our negativity killed this team hahahaha

    97. Look, so I know that WP48 isn’t good at calculating defense, but, uh, how good is it at adjusting for no-call-no-shows from a player making $21.6M and purportedly a leader of the team?


      oh man, i needed to read that – thanks jowles…

      hey, seriously though – who’s really crazier for showing up here…us naive ever hopeful foolish fans – or, you rational type folks whom are actually cursed with knowing what’s coming next…’it’s a train at the end of the tunnel stupid’…

    99. the thing is that the “optimists” will probably come and say our negativity killed this team hahahaha


    100. Look, bad news is that KP looked like shit without Rose.

      But the good news is that this team could seriously contend for a top 10 pick in a stacked draft now.


      Yeah, isn’t this great? I mean, the Knicks suck, how fucking awesome is that?

      Celebrate good times!


    102. Clyde telling Mike he thought he was going to say Tim Frazier was his son was fucking epic. . .everything else was bad

    103. we need LaLa to weigh in on the Melo recent ejections now to complete the circus, followed by Rose showing up like nothing happened.

    104. the thing is that the “optimists” will probably come and say our negativity killed this team hahahaha

      Hmmmm I don’t think so, but it does grow a bit tiresome to read everyday. Hence why I have personally enjoyed the prospects discussions as of late.

    105. So much hatred. Why? This is all part of the plan. The night is always darkest before the dawn. And the dawn is coming.

    106. Swift has officially converted to Team Tank as of last game.

      Only two remain.

      And this horrific game was worth the Clyde joke at the end.

      oh and also fire Phil Jackson

    107. This team is bad. It has been mostly bad for what is now approaching two decades. There’s not a lot of hope it’s ever going to be anything other than bad. This was a team that was built to win now, and it sucks. SUCKS! And you could see it coming a mile away, as many of us did.

      That said, I’m a bigger fan of this blog than I am of the team. I enjoy the conversation here, and I like the people. It’s quality basketball conversation for the most part. That’s why I stick with the Knicks. Because of Knickerblogger. Coming here and venting about how much the team blows is the only thing that makes being a fan of this thing palatable.

      I’d much rather the Knicks actually win some games, and behave like a real NBA team, believe me. It would be so much fun to watch a decent Knick team. But this is all I’ve got.

    108. yeah… how can Phil Jackson simply keep his job when a player literally doesn’t show up, no communication, and another one gets a clear “get me the hell out of here” ejection?

      how is he doing a GM’s job if stuff like this is happening?

      I hope Rose is fine, or really I don’t care, after the whole “incident” with that girl I honestly could care less about him personally… I just hope he still has trade value and gets the hell away from this team together with Melo.

    109. So, now it’s coming out that Derrick Rose had a major blowout with Hornacek after the Pacers game. And he’s a no-show tonight.

      Fuck Derrick Rose. Fuck that unprofessional, overrated piece of garbage. Guy is a fucking cancer, and he fucking sucks at basketball.


    110. Derrick Rose should be waived tomorrow. If he is not waived, Phil Jackson is completely gutless.

    111. yeah, he needs to go immediately.

      thank god.

      let’s hope Melo gets pissed at how management handled it and waives his NTC.

    112. it’s still the Knicks guys, for all we know Hornacek might be getting fired tomorrow

    113. The Blowout with Hornaceck is from a BS account. Lets put away the pitchforks before we know Derrick is actually safe.

    114. Well at least we don’t have to worry about giving Rose a max contract now.

      I don’t think anyone has to worry about that, now. What a stupid fucking move during a contract year.

      Yeah, isn’t this great? I mean, the Knicks suck, how fucking awesome is that?

      Celebrate good times!


      I think you meant to put a [dash] before “asshole.”

      Yeah, isn’t this great? I mean, the Knicks suck, how fucking awesome is that?

      Celebrate good times!


      Sort of how Uncle Charlie still signs his text messages, you know?

    115. The way sports “media’ reporting is today, we better wait. As I said earlier, this could run anywhere from tragic to hilarious. However, if he did just no show….

    116. If we lose to Philly on Wednesday after this Rose mess I’m pretty sure we’re going full tank and one of Phil or Hornacek gets fired (or Rose gets snap traded/waived.)

    117. I had it called when the news came out – Rose gets benched twice in the 4th quarter for Ron and he automatically no shows. He was pissed and didn’t attend the game.

    118. It fucking sucks that we can’t give back those lucky wins. This is as big a dumpster fire as any Knicks team in the past 15 years or so and we can’t even fully cash in on that. Fuck.

      And yeah, Derrick Rose should be waived. He sucks as a player and person, full stop. Phil Jackson is utterly incompetent and I hope someone else is making the decisions this summer.

    119. well, he is an entitled piece of shit, so it makes sense everyone believed the report instantly.

      I do hope nothing bad happened to him obviously, but i’m pretty sure it’s more a temper tantrum than a real issue

    120. Such a bizzare situation. Regardless of what your view on Rose is, fingers crossed his absence isn’t on the tragic end of the spectrum. If it’s just a no show then you hope that the organisation has the nads to at least suspend him and put his name on the block. Marbury 2.0.

    121. If I’m Phil I contact Rose’s agent and tell him to get his client on the phone by the end of the night or he’s a goner.

    122. I think you meant to put a [dash] before “asshole.”

      Yeah, isn’t this great? I mean, the Knicks suck, how fucking awesome is that?

      Celebrate good times!


      Sort of how Uncle Charlie still signs his text messages, you know?

      Ooh, clever, got me. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re an asshole for celebrating Knicks losses. Remind me which team you root for again?

    123. Say this for the Knicks, they usually suck but they are never boring lol.

      This is the most Knicks possible way for the season to go down in flames.


      Full steam ahead!

    124. Ooh, clever, got me. Doesn’t change the fact that you’re an asshole for celebrating Knicks losses. Remind me which team you root for again?

      You are a sad person. Why would anybody write such a hateful letter. I am.just guessing but ill bet your life is a mess and you are a hateful mess. What have you done that anyone would consider positive or nice. I am betting nothing. In fact ill bet you are negative force in everyone who comes in contact with you. You most likely have made your family miserable. Alcoholic maybe. I just celebrated my 21 year anniversary of sobriety. You should try it. Maybe it will help you become a person that folks would like to have around. In the mean while start rooting.for the Nets because the Knicks dont want you.



    125. Rose is a winner. He’ll eventually manage to find MSG without the use of Google Maps or Carmelo’s geo-tagged All Star Game tweets.

    126. The culture in this entire organization is for shit. From Dolan on down its a cesspool of fear, dishonesty, shortcuts and short term thinking. This is what you get when you continually try to “win now” with an endless series of Hail Marys and aging puzzle pieces rather than facing facts and the hard truth that you need to rebuild from the ground up. Burn it all down and start over. Take 5 years. Get it right. Enough of this insanity.

    127. Reading on twitter from the beat guys that Rose was at shoot around in Westchester this morning. Just a no show for the game though.

    128. glad to be here along for the ride on this season – i’ll give dolan some credit, never dull…i’ll probably continue tuning in just to hear clyde and breen, see who we trade, and the oh so glorious 2017 nba draft – where hope will spring eternal once again…

      make it rain jowles – you promised ;-)

      The Honorable Cock Jowles
      November 2, 2016 at 11:09 pm

      I’m gonna be easy on the hate until midseason, then it’s gonna fuckin’ rain

    129. The problem is that many of us were mentally prepared for the team to implode at some point in the season so we’re not shocked or devastated by anything that’s happened so far. In fact, its the reason why we’re so fixated on the draft – we’re fast-forwarding past another season of ineptitude towards a chance at a better tomorrow.

      This Rose situation is the perfect pretext to begin the true tank and sell off all our veteran assets for whatever we can get. We’ve almost played half a season with Melo and Rose and we’re a sub-.500 team. There’s no reason to have those two on this squad anymore.

    130. @242 It’s ripping off the band-aid. Maybe now is finally the time for a proper rebuild. I hope Dolan has the cojones this time.

    131. The age of copypasta is now upon us. BRING FORTH THE MEMES

      If I could embed imgurs or youtube videos this board would be nothing but memes

      make it happen mods

    132. yeah, we need some dank memes and gifs here!

      I can’t wait to start posting Bargnani gifs whenever something bad happens to the Knicks

    133. This is all on Hornacek. He ran how many stud PGs out of PHX? DRose is a slightly careworn version of his MVP self who will carry this team to victory if we just let him be DRose. Thanks, Phil!

      Love, Reub

    134. I have a feeling that the thing that will piss me off the most about this whole ordeal will still be Phil’s reaction.

    135. If he really is just off the grid and not responding to calls, and isn’t incapacitated for some reason, this is like the biggest dick move of all time.

    136. I think for sure Rose helps KP a lot, but whether that’s good for KP or not long term is an open question. YOu could argue that there’s value to letting him make mistakes and learn rather than play a simplified role and never experiment. I think which strategy makes the most sense depends on the approach the front office and coach take. If you are thinking about the future and you emphasize that learning and making mistakes is okay even if it means the team sucks, then I think it’s better. What you say as the front office/coach matters, but what you do matters way more. You have to make choices that indicate to the media and to fans that this is a transitional year with a focus on the future.

    137. @257 If that’s the case then he should be vilified. If it involves his family or son specifically it makes it a bit more reasonable.

      Still incredibly unprofessional either way.

    138. So we’re the biggest shit show in the NBA and yet we’ll probably have the tenth pick or some shit because we insisted on “win now.” Oh also we don’t have a lot of flexibility going forward. Who ever would have thought…

    139. @258

      I agree Latke. If Rose does help KP out, its a short-term gain. In the long-term KP needs to take his lumps and learn to adapt his game without a PnR guard who commands respect off the dribble.

    140. other sports teams may be dysfunctional but theres no dysfunctional like Knicks dysfunctional
      we literally lost one of our players. like, left him at DisneyLand, lost

    141. Begley just tweeted that Noah spoke to Rose after the game, and that Rose is ok.

      What a fucking joke this team is.

    142. Just remember in the winter
      Far beneath the bitter snows
      Lies the seed, that with the sun’s love
      In the spring, becomes the rose

    143. I guess I’m the punching bag for this thread. For the record, I’ve never been that optimistic about this team, and have serious doubts about Phil. And I have no problem with JK 47 et al trashing management, God knows they deserve it.

      But there’s a difference between being a bitter, disappointed Knicks fan (most posters on this site, myself included) and being a smug know it all who puts down those who don’t agree and literally rejoices after Knicks losses.

      That’s all I have to say. Fire away, THCJ, I await your incredibly clever and witty put down response. Good night.

    144. @233…took me forever, but, finally got it….

      I feel like Phil is gonna tweet something about Mumbai street food any minute now

      only one team wins the championship each year, there’s not another team in the league that provides the entertainment (thinking weird circus side show kinda stuff) value the new york knickerbockers do year and year out…

      there’s a very small list of contenders, the rest – mediocre and boring…the knicks have made a 3 billion dollar industry at specializing in the bizarre…

    145. ok, so he’s just a fucking piece of shit.

      nothing new to see here boys.

      let’s tear this crumbling house down and hop on the SS Ntilikina for good.

    146. There once was a PG named Rose
      Who barely belongs in the pros
      Because he couldn’t defend
      Coach sat him down at the end
      And next day he was a no show!

    147. That’s it, they might as well trade/waive/demote Rose right now. The NYC area sports media and MSG crowd will never forgive him for quitting on his team, let alone how his teammates must feel about him at the moment.

    148. I think he’ll get the Marbury treatment while Phil assesses the situation and tries to find any deal possible to trade him… then he’ll probably get cut if no one shows up, which is likely.

    149. So who’s the new tank commander? Shoulder-injury Melo?

    150. If I could embed imgurs or youtube videos this board would be nothing but memes

      make it happen mods

      Mods plz

    151. i got it man, conspiracy theory 283 – rose got word from phil that he’s on the market…rose, being an emotional kind of guy, takes it hard and goes for a long walk along the hudson…

      i think this means rose is on his way out, except in some weird scenario wherein rose pulls this bizarre move to pretty much cease any and all potential trade talk…

      hmmmm, we may never really know…

    152. Be careful, there are many ways that an agent or PR team could spin this with Rose as a victim.

    153. I just got back from the Garden. Noah says that he spoke to Rose and that Rose is OK. What does OK mean? Does it simply mean “alive and concious”? I think so, because missing a game must be some serious stuff – like having his appendix taken out or he got arrested or he got so pissed at being told that he doesn’t play defense that he just decided to stay home. None of those things are “OK”. I can’t conceive of anything being OK with Rose.

    154. Isola just tweeted that there’s “strong evidence” that Derrick is on a plane to Chicago

      LMAO what is going on with this franchise. It’s like MSG is built on former Indian land or something…

    155. Noah probably didn’t have a full conversation with Rose either, come on… he probably just called him, asked if anyone was dead or sick or whatever.

      we’ll have to wait until tomorrow to see what really happened, and it’s not looking good for Rose.

    156. The real winners are the readers of this thread. D-mar, don’t get too bent out of shape: Jowles is a douche but using the Jimmy Dolan note was hilarious. And Ptmilo not only with the science but the clever one liners, Z-Man resorting to Bette Midler – I think our ceiling is high. This blog is gonna be something special in a few years…

      …just like the Knicks, who are gonna jettison Rose and probably Melo and finally START OVER.

    157. @290

      LMAO Doug, I can’t stop watching this now.

      this will be a funny memory of the dark times lol

    158. I don’t care if it is a “family issue,” you don’t just disappear without telling anybody where you are. By all indications the team had no knowledge of his whereabouts. Unacceptable.

    159. Are there many starting point guards that wouldn’t help KP potentially even more than Rose? Don’t most point guards facilitate even more than Rose? Yes, Rose is an exceptional driver, but that’s it. KP is still too young to carry an offense by himself and most other point guards have the potential to give him better looks than Rose (e.g. average point guards like Felton on Knicks, Jeff Teague, Rubio, Schroder) in pick and roll situations. This is without mentioning the upper-echelon point guards in the league. If we draft a playmaking point guard, we won’t have anything to worry about.

    160. If it was a “family situation,” he’ll probably only be suspended a few games. Damn!

      Then again, we need him for the Ntank. So, OK, whatever.

    161. and it’s a 2 hour flight from New York to Chicago, so there’s no possible way he couldn’t pick up his phone and send a one line message to someone with the Knicks like “yo, going to Chicago, shit got real”

    162. The thing is if it’s a family emergency then just say that. No need for specifics but just saying that would put all the speculation to bed.

    163. “Family situation” my tan Puerto Rican ass. That’s damage control. He had a fucking meltdown.

    164. And you have agents, etc. who can handle stuff for you.

      If the family thing is real, that would give the Knicks time to maybe try to dump him on someone. I hope he’s jettisoned, though.

    165. Nah Ras, that’s just the ending to a sad-ass ballad from a ’70’s movie called “The Rose” about a tragic Janis Joplin-ish figure. Though you could find some cryptic shit in there if you smoke enough ganja. Like, “the seed” could be a high draft seed; “the Sun’s love” could refer to ex-Sun Hornacek giving Derrick “love” (as in Tennis) minutes in the 4th quarter vs. the Bucks; “in the spring” alludes to the upcoming draft; and “becomes the rose” means the draft pick that becomes what the optimists hoped Derrick Rose would become.

    166. BTW, I have to say as a recent addition to this blog, that I just love the community here. The snark, sarcasm, and weathered optimism of this site is exactly what being a Knicks fan is all about. Its made having to endure this season all the easier. Never change, gents! Or at least until we finally get a rebuild with KAT, KP, and Frank Ntilikina anchoring our multiple championship run.

    167. Z-man is the poet we need in these dark times.

      and the guy with the right references.

    168. #295

      Yes, Will. There are several PGs who could do that, including Frazier. I hope we find ours in this upcoming draft though.

    169. Best I have for Z-Man is some Seal:

      There used to be a greying tower alone on the sea
      You became the light on the dark side of me
      Love remained a drug that’s the high and not the pill
      But did you know that when it snows
      My eyes become large
      And the light that you shine can’t be seen?
      Baby, I compare you to a kiss from a rose on the grey
      Ooo, the more I get of you, the stranger it feels, yeah
      Now that your rose is in bloom
      A light hits the gloom on the grey.

    170. Rose, who’ll be a free agent this summer, has been increasingly frustrated with how this Knicks season has unfolded, culminating with him privately fuming over his diminished late-game role in Friday night’s victory in Milwaukee, sources said. Knicks coach Jeff Hornacek played undrafted rookie Ron Baker over Rose in the fourth quarter.

      Rose’s relationship with Hornacek has been frayed in recent weeks, league sources told The Vertical.

    171. Looks like Ron Baker destroyed both the Bucks and Rose’s mental state. I’m starting to get scared.

    172. @18 If we could get those two picks out of Philly I’d trade down and draft a whole new backcourt. Ntilikina’s D with Monk’s shooting would be a nice combo..

    173. I am happy as a pig in shit. This could get the momentum started for an entire cleaning of house. Of course, I do hope Phil stays for the next draft pick. Clarence Gaines is a good evaluator of talent.

    174. It takes a lot of teamwork to fit everybody in those tiny cars.

      And if you fit 12 clowns into the car, the trick isn’t finished until all 12 come back out. You can’t have one go missing. That’s not the point of the thing.

    175. Oakley has given harder fouls than what Kyle got flagrant two for, and they tossed Melo for saying what to the ref? They also missed a shot clock violation

      Rambis is the silent cancer to this team

    176. The stealth Ntank is in full effect. We just need to pull off some sort of trade that lands us another 1st round pick so we can capitalize on what seems to be the strongest draft class in a while.

    177. So Rose goes missing and the team plays it’s worst game of the year, But it can’t be that he actually helps the team when he plays? That’s the impression I get of what people
      Posting here actually think.
      I’m not saying he’s great, but there’s a reason he’s the starting point guard, not someone else. And I don’t mind he was unhappy about not playing. We want players who want to play.

    178. Welp… as a member of Team Optimist, all I have to say is “Well, that escalated quickly.”

      Ras1980: this team won’t fully blow things up until Dolan is OK with it, and he never will be. Your hope, believe it or not, is that Phil indeed has the reign that Dolan promised. And while I believes this team could have gotten to 45 wins, the stealth tank was always in play if things went south – I believed this from back in the summer.

      They’d have to continue to drop games in huge bunches. The D is bad enough for them to go, say, 5-20 over this current stretch. Won’t be pretty, though.

    179. #330

      Its hard to say which is the worst game of the year to be honest.


      Its not an issue of what Dolan wants – we’re finished. We’re going to be a lottery team. Its written in stone. Rose pulling his little bitch fit now forces the team to do what they were too afraid to do – get rid of him. Once he leaves, Melo will want out. It will be a glorious domino effect.

    180. @330

      come on dude.

      you are on a basketball team, training and playing with a guy the entire season… then one day, after he shows up for shootaround and it’s all fine, he literally doesn’t show up for a game and gives no reason / can’t be contacted.

      then the other “star” on your team gets ejected after a bad start…
      it’s obviously going to affect the team negatively, being Rose a good player or not.

      if anything, this loss showed how useless Rose is for this team, because it was equally terrible with him and without him.

    181. So Rose goes missing and the team plays it’s worst game of the year, But it can’t be that he actually helps the team when he plays? That’s the impression I get of what people
      Posting here actually think.

      The team obviously came out in this game with zero morale. Which will tend to happen when one of your teammates vanishes and nobody has any idea where the fuck he is.

      I’m not saying he’s great, but there’s a reason he’s the starting point guard, not someone else. And I don’t mind he was unhappy about not playing. We want players who want to play.

      Yeah, he “wants to play” so badly that he bailed on the team and didn’t show up for a game. Tremendous heart he showed there.

      It amazes me that people continue to defend this bum.

    182. And actually, just to go all out tinfoil paranoid – this entire L feels a lot like a power play from Rose and Melo. Rose attends practice, doesn’t show up and goes to Chicago. Melo gets himself ejected in the 3rd quarter. Feels a lot like they were sending a message to the coaching staff and management that they are unhappy.

    183. yeah, this can’t be real.

      if you want to play, you show up, work your hardest and recognize when someone else is helping the team more than you are in that moment. Rose has done nothing other than talk a lot about being great and wanting to achieve great things, and then he gets pissed by being benched in the 4th against Milwaukee, when this team broke a 6 game losing streak?

      yeah, definitely a player we need on this team, he’s more unhappy about a win than jowles lol

    184. If Rose just bailed with no reason, I’ll eat my words. But if the team played badly because they were upset he wasn’t there, that’s also means he’s not a horrible influence on them, at least in their opinion. I didn’t see the game, but I would assume Melo got pissed partially because they were losing does that to people (it’s making this board cranky too)

    185. But if the team played badly because they were upset he wasn’t there, that’s also means he’s not a horrible influence on them, at least in their opinion.

      The team played badly because it’s a bad team. They only suck marginally less when Rose can be bothered to actually show up for the games. They played especially badly tonight because their teammate quit on them, and didn’t even have the decency to spend ten seconds sending a text saying where he was. That’s just complete disrespect for your teammates, as unprofessional as it gets.

      The guy is a straight up dog and a loser. He plays a losing, selfish brand of basketball. This is low-character behavior, not the way a grown ass man should be acting.

    186. nobody said he was a bad influence on his teammates, people said he was a terrible player.

      players can be friends with terrible basketball players and be worried when they go missing without communicating.

    187. I would rather watch a young team lose while playing hard and working hard for one another than watch another game dominated by the two entitled, selfish, and lazy primadonnas we have on the Knicks. And I am willing to bet that a majority of Knicks fans feel the same way too.


    188. @ 302 Great post, Z-man.

      Well, what a day for the signing of Randle, hum? He would come in handy now, with a probable PG controversy ahead…

      Now seriously: considering that the front office won’t tank, I think they should sign Tim Frazier, if Rose is gone. He worked kind of well with Anthony Davis earlier in this season, so he could be a good partner to KP, on the short term.

    189. @341

      I agree completely, Ras.

      the Melo ejection was so fucking deliberate that it pisses me off that he will mostly get a free pass for it because of the Rose drama.

      two losers who should be gone from this franchise asap.

    190. There are two ways to deal with Derrick Rose:
      1. Give him his unconditional release tomorrow
      2. Make him dress for every game, sit him at the end of the bench and never let him play a single minute

      Either of those works for me. But fuck putting that clown back into the rotation. He needs to never play another minute for this team.

    191. So Rose goes missing and the team plays it’s worst game of the year, But it can’t be that he actually helps the team when he plays? That’s the impression I get of what people
      Posting here actually think.
      I’m not saying he’s great, but there’s a reason he’s the starting point guard, not someone else. And I don’t mind he was unhappy about not playing. We want players who want to play.

      *rips bong* maybe players who literally flee the state so they don’t have to play…really “want to play”

    192. “While Rose went AWOL, Jackson was also missing. He attended Monday’s game but he elected not to address the media regarding the whereabouts of a player that he acquired last June.

      It was classic Jackson; the invisible team president whose inflated bank account is matched only by his inflated opinion of himself. All you need to know about Jackson as a team president and leader is that he left it to the head coach to answer questions about a situation that is above Hornacek’s pay grade.

      This is the type of culture Jackson has created at the Garden. There is zero accountability; for him, Rose and Anthony, who leads the NBA in being thrown out of games.”

      I generally dislike Isola, but he’s spot on here.

    193. @346

      Did you also read this?

      Garden Chairman James Dolan was said to be upset on Monday and rightfully so. He is paying Jackson a fortune to turn the Knicks into a winner and make them a credible franchise again. He’s done neither.


    194. There are two ways to deal with Derrick Rose:
      1. Give him his unconditional release tomorrow
      2. Make him dress for every game, sit him at the end of the bench and never let him play a single minute

      There does exist a third option:

      3. Take full advantage of this golden opportunity to extend him for something less than the max contract he was poised to receive just a few short weeks ago.

      I don’t fault you for not having seen this sooner. That’s some real eleventh dimensional chess stuff; the kind of thing that comes naturally to a Zen Master but is not readily apparent to us schlubs who spend our time thrashing about in the muck and mire of the Internet.

    195. Meanwhile, there are some geniuses here that boldly proclaimed that this team would do much better if the worst PG in the league got hurt or racked up DNPs for some other reason. So this could be that moment we finally turn things around, right? Jowles, right?

    196. Phil’s not getting fired. Dolan understand’s that his reign look’s better and better by the hour. His displeasure seem just for the show. IMO Things can’t go better for him. People will start to beg him to retake control ala Frank did….SMH.
      Man, Knicks made my inner Theoist win out :((
      And this ain’t no rock bottom, not shure if there is one with Knicks.

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