Knicks Morning News (2016.10.03)

  • [ESPN] Monday’s Knicks News: Eventful first week during training camp
    (Monday, October 03, 2016 5:05:04 AM)

    Monday’s Knicks News: Eventful first week during training camp

  • [NYDN] After rocky training camp, can Knicks get it together in time?
    (Sunday, October 02, 2016 3:27:32 PM)

    It was been an eventful first week for the Knicks but then the Knicks have a history of having to deal with issues off the court.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ Derrick Rose rape trial set to begin Tuesday
    (Sunday, October 02, 2016 1:46:09 PM)

    Derrick Rose is in for an ugly week, and it has nothing to do with the start of the NBA preseason.

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: For Knicks’ Joakim Noah, Principled Stand Isn’t a Novelty
    (Sunday, October 02, 2016 1:00:25 PM)

    Noah’s decision to skip a team dinner at the U.S. Military Academy, which came amid prominent protests by other athletes, sprang from long-held pacifist beliefs.

  • [NYTimes] Kings Guard Collison Suspended Eight Games Over Domestic Incident
    (Monday, October 03, 2016 2:54:27 AM)

    Sacramento Kings point guard Darren Collison has been suspended for eight games after pleading guilty to a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, the National Basketball Association announced on Sunday.

  • [NYTimes] Rockets Rout Yao’s Shanghai Sharks 131-94 in Exhibition
    (Monday, October 03, 2016 2:45:49 AM)

    The Houston Rockets gave Yao Ming a warm welcome and his Shanghai Sharks a rude one.

  • [NYPost] Derrick Rose, Joakim Noah making wrong first impression
    (Sunday, October 02, 2016 9:47:26 PM)

    Title the controversial beginnings of the Knicks’ two biggest offseason additions — courtesy of Chicago — as “War and Peace.’’ Derrick Rose’s knees held up fantastically during training camp at West Point. Joakim Noah’s surgically repaired shoulder was a non-issue. In fact, the Knicks, derided for the potential of an injury-wracked season, passed the initial…

  • [NYPost] Knick opens up on baby niece as sister-in-law awaits brain surgery
    (Sunday, October 02, 2016 5:59:17 PM)

    Justin Holiday, the Knicks’ new shooting guard, spent late nights at West Point FaceTiming with a newborn baby girl. It was not his baby, but his first niece — the daughter of brother Jrue Holiday, the New Orleans Pelicans point guard. The birth became national news because Holiday’s wife, Lauren, a former soccer star for…

  • [SNY Knicks] Rose in ‘great condition’ at Knicks camp
    (Sunday, October 02, 2016 9:35:09 AM)

    Newly acquired Knicks guard Derrick Rose said Saturday that he is in good physical condition and feels that his training camp with the Knicks is one of the best of his career, reports Ian Begley of ESPN New York.

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    82 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.10.03)”

    1. October 3rd: 1 day before preseason starts, and almost certainly “Derrick Rose Settlement Day”

      For all involved I hope this thing just gets settled. Neither Rose nor Jane Doe want to be in trial. As a Knicks fan, I am interested in justice, but it’ll be miserable for everyone if this trial actually happens.

    2. Justice, or giving each person their due, is rarely served in courts of law(, where expedience routinely trumps justice (purely anecdotal no ejustice stat. see e.g Jsaon Williams former Net). The parties will act out of self-interest( including the lawyers who advise the parties) It would seem that neither the plaintiff, nor DRose would benefit from a public airing of allegations and hopefully a mutually beneficial settlement is reached. The dynamic between pro athletes and women is quite complex and imho, it is problematic to try the athletes and their women in courts of public opinion. Hopefully it settles and we get to find out if DRose sucks as much as recent data suggests he might.

    3. Berman’s two reasons why Noah should have gone to the dinner: A. Everyone has to do stuff they don’t like in their job and B.He could have learned something from how fast the army fed their soldiers. I don’t even have a punch line here. Feel bad that I gave that article a click.

    4. by the way I know pretty much all NBA players are amazing shooters in practice with no one watching, but those videos of Rose shooting 3s are still pretty impressive. If he’s been working on his 3’s and can shoot even 33%, that changes a lot.

    5. i’m not really sure how many wins we’ll see this season (fingers crossed, praying/hoping we reach 45)…

      one thing i have really appreciated since Phil came in to the picture is his focus on bringing in “good” people…it’s one thing to have a crappy team – it’s a whole other story to have a bunch of guys on the team whom are impossible to root for…

      innocent or guilty – the Rose thing kinda weirds me out – but, that stuff just ain’t my cup of tea (unless i’m streaming it over the internet)…

      Last year we had some rough patches competition wise – but, at least the guys played fairly hard (especially given the not so great coaching) and were easy to cheer for…

      right now i got a big ‘ol man crush on noah:

      Joakim Noah spoke to cadets at West Point last night after stories about his decision to skip a dinner at West Point because he is anti-war emerged. “It has nothing to do with the cadets,” he said. “I have a lot of respect for the troops and the sacrifice that they bring for this country. It’s just hard for me to see kids killing kids.”

    6. Miami’s win total line has dropped to 34 with the Bosh announcement. That’s a really good over bet

    7. Whiteside can ball but there ain’t much after him. I can see Dragic, Whiteside, Winslow, and Richardson winning 37.

      If Dion Waiters plays 2,000 minutes, though. Yikes.

    8. And the Noah hammy is a non issue I’m sure. Sounds like one of those “it’s October so we’re not gonna push it” kinda things.

    9. I expect lots of different opinions on the East this year. Every team besides Cleveland, Toronto, Brooklyn, Philadelphia and probably Boston has s lot of ifs in their future. That’s eleven teams in search of five playoff spots.

    10. The preseason hasn’t even really started and we’ve already seen two major injuries that dramatically changed the immediate future of their given team (Philly and Simmons and Milwaukee and Middleton), so yeah, there is definitely a ton of uncertainty left.

    11. That whole Noah incident was borderline (I don’t want to use the word).

      No sane person on earth is in favor or war. However, there are clearly times when it’s justified. If you are going to protest war or the military in some way (which I am all in favor of), you should be specific as to what you disapprove of and why. This kind of generic anti military stuff is the kind of asinine delusional idealism that comes from being miseducated in our institutions of higher propaganda.

      Every single one of us owes everything good about our country to the military. Without it, we’d be all be goose stepping. And this is coming from an anti-war libertarian. I’m glad we are past this idiocy and on to hamstrings.

    12. If you are going to protest war or the military in some way (which I am all in favor of), you should be specific as to what you disapprove of and why.

      He said hes against war, that’s enough for me.

      This kind of generic anti military stuff is the kind of asinine delusional idealism that comes from being miseducated in our institutions of higher propaganda.

      He said he supports them and isn’t anti military

      Every single one of us owes everything good about our country to the military

      I don’t agree with this.

    13. Every single one of us owes everything good about our country to the military

      I don’t agree with this.

      Well, we’d all be speaking German or Japanese now without the military. If you like those languages, I guess you shouldn’t agree with that statement.

      Honestly, I applaud athletes for having social consciousness. But I worry that the causes will get diluted by half-considered stuff like Noah’s “protest”. If you’re anti-war, fine. Protest the civilians who decide where the military goes. But the idea that you’re against all military is just (IMHO) lala land idealism. I’m pretty sure his father’s father was pretty happy there was an American and British military when Hitler was blitzkrieg’ing France. If you’re anti-war, protest the people who decide whether there IS a war or not. Those people are in Washington, not at West Point.
      Better yet, go meet with cadets and tell them your point of view (which I guess he ulitmately did after all the backlash).

      Ok, rant over.

    14. If someone didn’t decide to pick up arms and fight we would not have gained our independence when we did. When I first heard Noah’s comments I thought that makes sense why go “support” something military if you are a de facto pacifist. But on further reflection it is childish to not want to hear or be at anything where there may be an opposing viewpoint.

      At any rate has “Jane Doe” settled her case?

      Better imagine Jetsblogger right now. “Revis is a punk.” “The schedule is tough.” “Fitz regressed to the mean.” “Go Geno” “Geno sux.” “Give Petty a shot.” “The coaches have seen Petty for two seasons and chose Fitz.” “Brandon Marshall is a wife beater.” Brandon Marshall is a reformed …” and so on

    15. Yeah…sure WW2 was the most important military operation in the last 100 years.

      That doesn’t mean that “everything good is due to the military”

      Our military industrial complex is spiraling out of control right now. I have no problem with it but it is what it is. There have been plenty of great American things that have nothing to do with the military.

    16. I have to say I’m with Rob Silverman on this one. I just can’t stand the constant intermingling of jingo-istic “patriotism” and sports. I don’t understand why we play the national anthem before the game and “God Bless America” at the 7th inning stretch. I don’t understand why a freaking fighter jet flies over the stadium before a football game. I don’t understand what the connection is supposed to be between a bunch of millionaires in blue and orange pajamas playing a kid’s game for a living and the cadets at West Point. The whole thing just doesn’t make sense.

    17. My understanding of the Noah situation is he wasn’t exactly “protesting”, per se. He didn’t feel comfortable with a bunch of uniformed military personnel applying lessons they’ve learned from combat to basketball. It’s a pretty bizarre concept if you think about it honestly, can’t say I blame him.

    18. It just wouldn’t be a new season of Knicks basketball if there wasn’t uncertainty about whether our starting point guard would play in the preseason due to uncertainty about his sexual assault case

    19. I don’t care what Noah believes. I care how he performs and how he makes the Knicks great. That’s all.

    20. You can take many lessons you learn in war and apply them to sports, business and other places.

      You dont think you can learn from lessons on trusting your fellow soliders or teammates, communicating, working together, training together, etc. etc?

      Cmon.

    21. And I guess that neither Noah nor a number of you see any irony in the fact that he chose to take a stand and make a political statement by disrespecting the very people who are willing to fight and die to protect his right to do so. Frank makes a good point — Noah should ask his elderly European relatives whether they are grateful for the US military. Or better yet, he should ask a few of his teammates how their parents liked living under Communist rule and whether they are happy that the US won the Cold War.

    22. And I guess that neither Noah nor a number of you see any irony in the fact that he chose to take a stand and make a political statement by disrespecting the very people who are willing to fight and die to protect his right to do so. Frank makes a good point — Noah should ask his elderly European relatives whether they are grateful for the US military. Or better yet, he should ask a few of his teammates how their parents liked living under Communist rule and whether they are happy that the US won the Cold War

      OMG people like you make me want to smash my head into a wall. Your ilk love the term “disrespect”…..How did he disrespect anyone? He said being there made him feel uncomfortable. Not because he hates cadets, actually its the opposite, he feels horrible about the fact that they go to war. It wasn’t a protest or political statement, it was a personal choice. The strawmen of WW2 and the Cold War is mind numbing. I think that its great that people feel the way that they feel, but please let others feel the way that they feel as well.

    23. er — maybe you should talk to some people who served in WWII before you get so angry about how I feel (another irony since you admonish me to let people feel however they want). I have/had a father and five uncles who fought in that war, including an uncle who was on one of the first landing crafts on D-Day and another uncle who served on a mine sweeper at age 16. They all were willing to die so that you and I wouldn’t be ruled by fascist dictators. I think that it is extraordinarily juvenile and disrespectful of a professional athlete to refuse to sit at a dinner table with young men and women who are sworn to protect him because it makes him feel “uncomfortable.” While I have a lot of issues with how our military is deployed, and while I wish that there was no need for a military, I have nothing but respect for the men and women who serve.

    24. Johnno….Im not angry about how you feel, im more frustrated.

      I think that it is extraordinarily juvenile and disrespectful of a professional athlete to refuse to sit at a dinner table with young men and women who are sworn to protect him because it makes him feel “uncomfortable.

      This is the crux of my frustration. He said he respects them…..but you say its disrespectful, because he didn’t wanna hear a war speech and see kids who may die in war. I don’t agree with him but that’s how he feels. It was an artificial setting. He doesn’t work for the army or West Point. The Knicks just chose to go there. He would not have even been there if he wasn’t on the Knicks. Its not a real conflict.

    25. @39 My father volunteered to serve in the Navy during WWII. He didn’t have to – as a trained machinist he could have stayed in a very good job stateside working to support the war by building tanks or aircraft or any number of things. But he volunteered.

      He didn’t talk much about his war experience – I have only two or three stories that he told me, but I know that he would be fine with what Noah did and said. You see while he didn’t talk much about his experiences during the war whenever the subject came up he described it as three-and-a-half years down the rathole (altho his language was a bit stronger). Not because the cause wasn’t important and necessary, but because he always thought that we were better than that; that war was a stupid way to settle anything because of its enormous cost. He felt that we should strive to settle our differences in ways that didn’t involve the deaths of millions of people; that made large parts of our planet unlivable or dangerous for decades (if not centuries) to come. And in no case should we glorify war – if it was necessary we should get it over with as quickly as possible so that we could get on with the things that were truly important. I have no doubt that, were he alive today he would not only understand where Joakim Noah is coming from; he would applaud him.

      And btw Noah made it pretty clear that he respects the Cadets:

      It’s hard for me a little bit — I have a lot of respect for the kids here fighting — but it’s hard for me to understand why we go to war and why kids have to kill kids all around the world,’’ Noah said. “I have mixed feelings about being here. I’m very proud of this country. I love America. I don’t understand kids killing kids around the world.”

      and that he wasn’t protesting anything

      “It’s not my way of saying anything — I was not comfortable,’” Noah said

      .

    26. You dont think you can learn from lessons on trusting your fellow soliders or teammates, communicating, working together, training together, etc. etc?

      All of these things also apply to a symphony. They have to trust each other, communicate, work together, train together. Do you think the Knicks would/should have a first violin come in to talk to them?

      And I guess that neither Noah nor a number of you see any irony in the fact that he chose to take a stand and make a political statement by disrespecting the very people who are willing to fight and die to protect his right to do so.

      By this silly circular logic you are never allowed to make any sort of “protest” (to the extent that Noah skipping a dinner can be called that) against the military.

    27. sorry…i’ll leave the noah/woo poo u thing alone after this…

      honestly i was really disappointed in whomever drafted the schools response to the situation:

      “The U.S. Military Academy at West Point develops leaders of character for the defense of our nation. We are disappointed and feel Mr. Noah’s choice of West Point to make a statement is inappropriate because of the great sacrifice that has originated from this institution over our nation’s history.”

      after handling the sombrero (UTEP thing) and the football team prayer situation with very appropriate and deft touch – i believe they screwed the pooch on this one…whomever drafted that response should be walking tours in the area at this very moment…

      noah can say what he wants, whenever he wants to whomever he wants (which most certainly includes eating wherever he wants)…those cadets are there to learn how to best defend the constitution – they’re not there to serve any one individuals pride or sense of propriety…

      from noah’s perspective and given his personal beliefs i can only imagine how overwhelming a situation it was for him to be there on post…the place is full of young people learning how to dispatch other young people (sadly, but for the most part – armed conflict is a young persons burden)…

      ya know – i got a feeling jennings is gonna be a real gem for us this year…

    28. i got a feeling jennings is gonna be a real gem for us this year…

      Hells yeah….year removed from the Achilles

    29. @43 is a good post.

      Just because the military participated in WWII doesn’t mean that being anti-war is somehow disrespectful. The military, for the record, has done nothing but cause an enormous amount of human suffering since WWII. And the blame doesn’t just fall on Congress or the president for sending them to those places–the military has an active hand in shaping foreign and domestic policy as well as having latitude over the kind of war they’re going to wage. There’s plenty of reason to be anti-war and anti-military (but not anti-cadet.)

      This is a tempest in a teapot where some of the older posters can show their jingoist bad sides. It’s not Noah who’s being oversensitive–it’s everyone else who has so little political imagination that they take a principled and respectful difference of opinion as a cause for outrage that are. Sitting at that table is an implicit recognition of the institution itself, and he doesn’t want to be a part of that; it has nothing at all to do with the cadets.

      And, really, who doesn’t want a world where there is no war? Let the man make a stand for a cause that’s worthy but difficult to reach.

    30. My last comments on Noah —
      – He mouthed the words that he respects the cadets but, in my opinion (and, apparently in the school’s opinion) his actions showed otherwise.
      – Noah absolutely has every right to say what he wants and eat with or not with whomever he wants. However, those of us who disagree with him have every right to criticize him for it — and er has every right to say that I and my “ilk” make him want to smash his head against the wall. That’s how freedom of speech and expression works.
      – I don’t think that Noah committed the crime of the century. I like him a lot and nothing he did or said will keep me from rooting for him — unlike the other guy whom, if the allegations against him are proven to be true, I will never support (not that it will matter because, if he loses in court, the league is likely to suspend him for a long time).
      – ptmilo is right — we really could use a game thread.

    31. – ptmilo is right — we really could use a game thread.

      this is something everyone can agree on

    32. He said hes against war, that’s enough for me.<

      @ER

      Did you actually read what I said?

      This is the exact thing reasonable people are complaining about. Every reasonable person on earth is against war in a general sense. So what is his point?

      If you aren’t specific, you are just another idealistic nitwit that’s not paying attention to how the real world actually works.

      If he said I am boycotting the use of drone strikes that sometimes kill citizens, that is a reasonable point of view. Few would have complained even if they disagree.

      If he said I was against the Iraq war, that is a reasonable point of view. Few would have complained even if they disagree.

      But when you say you are against “war” in a general sense, that means you are also against WW1, WW2, the American Revolution and The Civil War. Very few people would argue we shouldn’t have fought in at least some of those wars.

      His very general statement suggests an extreme level of naivety and idealism. He is 100% entitled to feel that way and do as he pleases. We are are fully entitled to point out why he is naive and hasn’t thought out his position.

    33. WWII was a grotesque atrocity. At a certain point our participation was a lesser evil, but that war is one of the worst events in human history.

    34. I really don’t know what to say about the Noah/West Point thing other than he clearly isn’t a MENSA society member. He is a pituitary freak who is a gifted athlete. That is it. He’s not a philosopher and he made a complete fool of himself. He’s clearly not an adult and hasn’t been married before because he doesn’t get the concept that sometimes it is better to bite your tongue. He accomplished exactly nothing other than showing to the world he isn’t very smart.

      No one in their right mind likes killing and war. But West Point cadets work for the President of the United States. They aren’t free lancers who murder people on a whim and enjoy drinking human blood.

      If he wants to be angry at someone, aim his displeasure at the current president who on his resume, targeted and killed by drone attack a US citizen without due process. That is something he should actually be upset about.

      And maybe he could ask his father or grand father what chance do they think his grandfather’s chances of playing futbol in Herr Hitler’s Vichy France in the 1960’s if those West Point grads Ike, Patton, Bradley Ridgeway, etc had sat that one out……

      Stupid, entitled rich people piss me off….. yeah that’s you Trump.

    35. Stupid, entitled rich people piss me off…..

      This is what I mean by being frustrated. Noah may be off base in how he chooses to feel at the military academy. But why does he have to be stupid and entitled? I have heard soooo many great stories 1st hand about Jo, but as soon as he doesn’t conform to the “norm” he’s stupid and entitled. The guy is a known pacifist. Nah he’s just a stupid entitled jock

    36. Anybody that calls Noah stupid and entitled clearly knows nothing about the amazing amount of charity work he does off the floor.

    37. Maybe he didn’t want to hang out with a bunch of people that are gonna vote for Trump. I don’t think that makes him someone who isn’t thankful for our role in WW2.

      Also, why does everyone try to fix everyone else’s political statements? I’m constantly hearing, “Do something positive, don’t disrespect the flag” which is just de facto “keep your mouth shut”.

      Finally, If my country doesn’t have my back why should I have it’s? I mean, go ahead, deny climate change, pollute, elect a criminal president, let rich people pay no taxes, cut education, cut infrastructure, put prayer back in schools, deport people’s parents, shoot people’s brothers, build a wall… Then if I say something, however simple, critical of an active conglomeration which is supposed to guarantee my rights but which, in fact, deny’s me them, lower the boom. Call me disrespectful to the sacrifices of our military. Equate him with a date raper! Wow.

    38. Is there anything worse than an Eli Manning audible?

      #TeamNoah.

      Please season, start soon.

    39. Being anti-war is different than being rude to your hosts. I like Noah but think his refusal is rude and self-serving. Not a big deal, though.

    40. Noah may be off base in how he chooses to feel at the military academy. But why does he have to be stupid and entitled?

      Why?

      Because the people that sign his very nice paychecks decided to hold their training camp at West Point. He represents the Knicks franchise and therefore only a certified moron wouldintentionally embarrass his employer, which he most certainly did, and also annoyed a portion of their fan base for no good reason.

      He doesn’t like war…. well no kidding pal. Can you think a little more deeply than that? Obviously not.

      He is stupid, because he didn’t think the issue through like a first level poker player. Had he thought it through, he would have realized his grandfather would never have gotten out of Cameroon had the US Army not intervened and his beef shouldn’t be with the military, but with the civilian leadership who tells the military what to do and when. As you know, as long as an order is lawful, it must be followed by the military.

      He embarrassed his employer and was exceedingly rude to his hosts. If he was making $800 a week for MSG, they would have fired him right there, but since he makes 18M he has that sense of entitlement that he can say and do whatever stupid thing he cares to .

      Which he certainly can, but I can think he’s a knuckle putz because of it.

    41. Anybody that calls Noah stupid and entitled clearly knows nothing about the amazing amount of charity work he does off the floor.

      Is this an Imus “Which doesn’t belong and why?”

      What does doing charity work, which is certainly commendable, have to do with being smart? So anyone who does charity work can then act like an uninformed , rude pompous ass and therefore is immune from criticism?

    42. It is kind of funny to have this discussion on the same day where a presidential candidate, the draft-dodging one who likes the soldiers who didn’t get captured, the one who attacked a Gold Star family, announced that he thinks that veterans with PTSD aren’t strong enough to handle the horrors of war, unlike many of his supporters in the audience. .

      This is not to take a shot at any KB poster above who took issue with Noah. Unless one of you is Donald Trump, as I have long suspected.

      While I find the link between the military and sports a little disquieting personally, I certainly believe in honoring military service generally. I also think reasonable people can disagree about how to do that.

      But it’s just crazy to me that in world where we can go back and forth about whether Joakim Noah should have attended a West Point Cadet event or not, that shithead can get away with what he seems to get away with.

    43. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military

      Yep, the military just follows orders! We should always blame the commander in chief for the actions of a relatively independent organ of the United States! Moreover, the main implementers of the torture and drone warfare are totally blameless! They’re just following orders! Nothing wrong with the military!

      Get a grip, lol.

    44. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haditha_massacre
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_assault_in_the_United_States_military

      Yep, the military just follows orders! We should always blame the commander in chief for the actions of a relatively independent organ of the United States! Moreover, the main implementers of the torture and drone warfare are totally blameless! They’re just following orders! Nothing wrong with the military!

      Get a grip, lol.

      Hmmmm…..yeah… better watch out for those baby killers.

      Since the average size of the US military since the Viet Nam war is about 2,000,000, let’s compare the bad stuff to the population of the city of Philadelphia.

      For 2014 Philly crime stats and extrapolate (the crime stats on wiki):

      Murders = 16 /100,000/year = 320 = 16,000 over the 50 years you spoke of

      Rapes = 75 / 100,000 / year = 1,500 = 75,000 over the 50 year period you spoke of

      The US Military is more disciplined by orders of magnitude than the general American populace.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Philadelphia

    45. What does doing charity work, which is certainly commendable, have to do with being smart? So anyone who does charity work can then act like an uninformed , rude pompous ass and therefore is immune from criticism?

      Having an opinion or acting in a way you disagree with doesn’t make somebody stupid. Labeling him entitled also is just flat out wrong and it’s bullshit. Yeah, he’s entitled because he makes a lot of money and chose to have an opinion about something you strongly disagree with. Great.

    46. @68 lol, this could be the single most laughable post in KB history.

      @70 I agree. That doesn’t mean that the way you choose to express your opinion, especially when you have celebrity status, is beyond reproach.

      My daughter is a militant vegetarian and diehard Hillary supporter. But if she refused to attend Thanksgiving dinner at their house because Aunt Millie served turkey and Uncle Joe was a Trump supporter, I’d tell her that she was being rude.

    47. @71

      Sure, you could say Noah was being rude. Calling him stupid and entitled is BS though.

    48. West Point was the Knicks host, so you could say it was rude for Noah not to attend. On the other hand, it was clearly a volunteer event and no one, including Noah, made a fuss about him not attending until the press found out about it accidentally. (Some reporter asked Noah how he liked the speech). Personally, I would have attended if my hosts invited me. But I support Noah’s right to say no. I believe him when he says he would have felt uncomfortable, and uncomfortable guests are no fun. It was probably better for the dinner he stayed away.

    49. IMHO recent social/political actions by professional athletes beg this question
      When an athlete is representing his team, be it in the context of a game (national anthem/uniform alterations) or a team event ( visit to WP) do they relinquish their right to express their opinion on social/political events? I would argue that it is up to their employers.
      Outside the context of team events, athletes have the right to opine and we can agree or disagree. The fact that they have a forum because of thier status as athletes or former athletes does not lend any credence to their positions ( ie Curt Shilling) It is ultimately the substance of their positions that give it gravity ( Muhammad Ali’s draft boycott). In the end, what these actions do is provoke public discourse on important subjects. That is never a bad thing.

    50. I love the irony of bringing up Noah’s French/WWII connection, when if it weren’t for Noah’s French ancestors, we’d be discussing the Brexit vote or why Noah isn’t a better netminder over at NYFCblogger.net.

      BTW why is WWII the only barometer for whether we should respect the military? There have been a handful of wars since: Korea, Vietnam, Persian Gulf, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc. or the non-war uses of the military, like drone strikes, Kosovo bombing, military coups, etc. Why aren’t those used in arguments?

      My point is the military, like everything else man has created, can have good and bad attributes. Am I grateful that the US military helped my ancestors in WWII? Absolutely! Does that mean I believe every war/military act since is equally justified? No.

    51. Let’s assume the opposite.

      Pretend the Knicks were having a team outing at PETA, and Courtney Lee decided not to attend because he was not comfortable with their philosophy. Would Marc Berman still be chiding him for not spending time with his team? Couldn’t Lee learn humility, sacrifice, sharing, and compassion from spending a day with PETA? By doing this, doesn’t Lee put himself in the same category of animal abusers like Mike Vick, Roy Jones Jr., etc?

    52. Let’s define “support the troops.”

      Does it mean “provide them with excellent healthcare and benefits when they are maimed, disfigured, traumatized and/or killed in action?” Or does it mean “wave a flag and buy some America™ swag to show that you support what they do, even in the event of documented violations of international human rights law that result in violence, rape and murder against foreign citizens?”

      Joakim Noah is not a mechanical engineer at an arms manufacturer who also happens to be a pacifist, and therefore cannot fulfill the terms of his employment. He is a mother fucking basketball player, and should not be compelled to “honor” or “support” state-employed military personnel for PR reasons. I respect the right for any of you to disagree, so long as you understand what kind of tenuous ground it is to command employees, under threat of fines, suspension or termination, to participate in the pageantry of nationalistic militarism.

    53. Don’t post much, but this kind of shaming gets on my nerves. My grandfather was shot down over Germany and spent two years in a German prison camp. He almost died from dysentary during a forced march through the snow. His brother died during the Doolittle raid (of 30 Seconds Over Tokyo fame). My grandfather went into the war thinking a lot like the more gung ho posters on this board, but after the war, and for the rest of his life, he spoke out against war in ways much like Noah did. People saying we must unquestioningly support the military, saying they’re the best of us, etc., sound like they’re goose-stepping to me.

    54. I don’t think Noah should be judged or disciplined in any way, beyond anyone, including his colleagues and employers if they so feel, pointing out that what he did could be construed as rude. It is not really a big deal. There’s a giant gulf between “not showing up at a dinner thrown by our hosts is discourteous, but whatever” and “not showing up makes you an unpatriotic wretch worthy of some form of passive or active reprisal .”

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