Knicks Morning News (2016.06.06)

  • [New York Times] Warriors 110, Cavaliers 77 | Golden State leads series, 2-0: Warriors, Resilient at Home, Cruise Against the Cavaliers (Mon, 06 Jun 2016 02:58:17 GMT)

    Draymond Green scored 28 to help Golden State take another step toward defending its N.B.A. title with a 33-point victory in Game 2 of the N.B.A. finals.

  • [New York Times] TV Sports: Mike Breen Becomes N.B.A. Finals Play-by-Play Fixture (Mon, 06 Jun 2016 00:49:13 GMT)

    Breen, who is announcing a record 11th N.B.A. finals, chooses a smooth and steady play-by-play style over the gimmicks abused by other broadcasters.

  • [New York Times] As NBA Finals Move to Cleveland, Warriors Looking Unbeatable (Mon, 06 Jun 2016 06:57:37 GMT)

    When the Golden State Warriors returned to Cleveland in January for the first time since clinching the championship there last June, Stephen Curry raised a little stir when he said he hoped the visiting locker room “still smells a little bit like champagne.”

  • [New York Times] Warriors Whip Cavaliers 110-77 to Take 2-0 NBA Finals Lead (Mon, 06 Jun 2016 03:12:40 GMT)

    Draymond Green emphatically flexed his bulging biceps with big plays on both ends of the floor, and these Golden State Warriors might just be far too strong for the Cleveland Cavaliers.

  • [New York Times] Cavs Get Hammered in Game 2, Love Leaves With Concussion (Mon, 06 Jun 2016 02:57:36 GMT)

    Kevin Love lay on the court grabbing the back of his head after taking an elbow from Harrison Barnes.

  • [New York Times] Warriors Destroy Cavaliers to Open 2-0 NBA Finals Lead (Mon, 06 Jun 2016 03:54:30 GMT)

    The Golden State Warriors moved into a commanding position in the NBA Finals with a 110-77 romp over the Cleveland Cavaliers on Sunday, the defending champions easing to victory in front of a delighted home crowd.

  • [New York Times] The Latest: Warriors Blow Cavs Out 110-77, Lead Finals 2-0 (Mon, 06 Jun 2016 02:39:37 GMT)

    The Latest on Game 2 of the NBA Finals between the Golden State Warriors and the Cleveland Cavaliers (all times local):

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    67 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.06.06)”

    1. If we want to play for the present and compete now we might look at signing Rondo, Courtney Lee and Noah. Nothing says that we have to have an entire team of 23 year olds. We could get value contracts there and still have plenty of youth sprinkled in with KP, Grant, Wroten, Galloway, DWill, Hernangomez, Early plus hopefully one or two draft choices.

    2. Courtney Lee would be a solid addition, but hell no to Rondo and Noah.

    3. Rondo is like the bizarro volume scorer. Tons of assists but when was the last time he led an offense that was better than league average? And he used to be a good defender but those days are looooong gone.

      And in this day and age, a guard that really can’t shoot or convert at the line is a death knell to an offense. I highly doubt Hornacek will want Rondo as he’s said a bunch of times just the last few days that he really values shooting ability.

      And he’s 30 with a serious injury (and locker-room) history.

      Noah I’d be fine with – figure he’s a buy low candidate at this point but he’d have to come cheap and be ok with playing 15 minutes/game. I would not spend money on him unless we somehow have $ left over after getting what we really need, which are 2-way guards.

      Courtney Lee – up to 2 years $20MM I’d be very happy with. Good defender, great shooter. More than 2 years would be tough given his age.

      Overall I would not be super upset with re-signing Galloway, Lance Thomas, and getting Courtney Lee. Ideally these would all be value contracts, and we could either rent the rest of the cap space to another team for a year to get pick(s), then have extra $ for the following summer. Honestly, a lineup of PG rotation (Grant/Wroten/Calderon), SG (Lee/Galloway), SF (Melo/Thomas), PF (KP), C Lopez/KOQ is not bad. if we can’t get value with the rest of the cap $, perhaps we could get a mid-late 1st round pick for other teams trying to make a big splash either in FA or at the trade deadline.

    4. Meanwhile – GS has really good players but you are beginning to see what Phil is talking about when he mentions “system basketball” and why he has/had so little regard for D’Antoni’s spread system in which there’s just a high PNR with a bunch of dudes standing around the perimeter. GS clearly has a system, and even when Curry/Klay are resting/in foul trouble/playing badly they still get tons of easy baskets because of the system they run — even in the playoffs when presumably Cleveland has scouted them extensively. Cleveland has Lebron, and still can’t get anything going because GS doesn’t have to worry about off-ball stuff nearly as much.

      And man – Kyrie and Love really are awful defenders. Lebron – playing too much free safety. Cleveland looks like the proverbial Mike Tyson opponent – everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth. And boy are they wobbling. And with a rookie coach who really hasn’t shown that much in terms of Xs and Os so far? Not a chance they are winning more than one pity game.

    5. @ 3 – Are you assuming Dwill walks?

      I’d really like to keep Derrick Williams. I think he kind of surprised us this year and improved a lot. He’s still pretty young and is super athletic. And considering we didn’t really have the guards to run uptempo, which is a strong part of his game, his numbers were pretty good. If we’d had one decent guard or if Grant was allowed to run the offense more to his ability, I feel like DWill would have put up even better numbers. Still not a great defender but he has the tools. And he seems to like it here and found a home here. Mainly because of his age I think we should try to bring him back. I think in Hornaceck’s offense he could be a good piece.

    6. Yes. No thanks to Rondo. I’d be find with his poor outside shooting if he could actually make free throws. To me the fact that he can’t shoot free throws is a big no no. A guard who can get to the foul line HAS to be able to make free throws. He’s just giving up free points.

    7. While the exact FA outcomes (namely who to which teams). I can say with certainty that a lot of the available money will go to a few guys. Think parento’s law.

      There’s going to be about $900MM to spend this offseason. There will be about 150 NBA free agents. I figure the top 20% (30 guys) will average $17.5MM/yr. That leaves $550MM for the remaining 130 guys at about $4.3MM/yr/player

      There are going to be some fairly good players that can be signed to value contracts after the top 30 guys get their big contracts.

      It will require waiting unless the plan is to get a top guy (hopefully a SG) and then wait a few weeks for the value contact guys. I feel comfortable that PJax understands this after last season’s FA signings.

    8. No to Rondo. Please, no. No. No way. No. And just let me add, NO.

      Yes, to Courtney Lee, but as a fallback guy if none of the top young wings can be coaxed into signing. I can see Phil being interested in Lee if he doesn’t want to throw $20 million or more per year at someone.

      Noah? Why? Sure, if Phil plans to deal Lopez, but I hope they keep him unless knocked out with an incredible deal.

    9. Noah would be fine if we can get him for cheap. We probably can’t get him for cheap.

      Courtney Lee is a pretty solid player. He can probably give you the production of a Fournier for less money and none of the upside. Overpay him for 1 year and I’d have no real complaints.

    10. It feels extremely sad talking about making incremental improvements to a 32 win team that had the 7th worst record in the league.

      Why this team is considering anything other than trying to trade Carmelo Anthony this summer is beyond me.

      I know that’s our lot and we are stuck with him for at least one more year but god almighty this is such a wonderful chance to move him. Half the league has cap space and his three year $65mm contract looks like a steal compared to what everyone else is going to get paid this summer. And there are big market teams at the top of the draft that want to win now and would probably trade for him.

      But maybe we’ll find that missing piece in free agency that can get us over the hump to 40 wins and clinch the 9 seed in the East.

      Depressing.

      One can only hope that we lose the first 15 games of the season and maybe reality will sink in for all involved.

    11. and his three year $65mm

      my apologies, it’s more like 3 years, $80mm. It’s still not a bad contract for anyone.

    12. The reason we’re not talking Melo trade anymore is because it’s not happening. Especially now with the hornacek hire, he’s not giving up that NTC.

      And honestly- without Melo this will be 25 win team for the next 2 years. I’m fine with incremental improvement. At the end of the day this team was fun to watch until mid January when Melo stepped on the ref’s foot and lance Thomas got hurt. With a smart coach and two new 2-way guards, this team could be interesting. Can’t forget that KP will also be much better this year -not just growth as a player but presumably will be used more intelligently too.

    13. @ 11 – Its not depressing at all. Incremental is your word.

      Our guard play was pretty bad last year. Improving that improves us. Then you have the improvement of KP and Grant (internal growth…aka player development aka what every successful team does).

      Plus you have improvement with our coach (hopefully).

      And its not depressing to keep Melo and improve to a playoff team. Its called progress. Melo is 31, not 37. Even if he falls off some you are talking about KP taking over and more cap space (plus a draft pick) the following year. This is what slowly building a team looks like.

    14. “Why this team is considering anything other than trying to trade Carmelo Anthony this summer is beyond me.”
      Maybe you haven’t heard the news yet but Melo has a no trade clause and has said repeatedly that he doesn’t want to leave. Unless they have real reason to believe that he is lying, it would be beyond me why they would waste any time at all considering trying to trade him — regardless of whether you, I or anyone else thinks that it would be a good idea.
      By the way, I am getting old. If you asked me to guess how old Courtney Lee is, I would have said 24 or 25. How the heck did he get to be 30 so fast??

    15. The hatred for Rondo is mind-boggling. Who would you rather have, Jose Calderon? Or maybe we can coax Walt Frazier out of retirement.

      I doubt we want to sign a guy like Rondo to a long-term, bit money deal, and other teams will. But please with the hate. Chris Paul, John Wall, Damian Lillard, Russell Westrbrook or Steph Curry are not coming here. What is your reasonable alternative where we don’t end up with someone that should be a backup?

    16. Frank, by “we” I meant the Knicks organization, not the Knickerblogger community. I see why you misunderstood me, as I’m obviously not part of the Knicks organization :)

      I was kind of hoping we’d be hearing talk of teams interested in him and the knicks talking about trading him. Either we’re (edit: they’re) super discreet or they’re just not thinking correctly.

    17. I doubt we want to sign a guy like Rondo to a long-term, bit money deal, and other teams will. But please with the hate. Chris Paul, John Wall, Damian Lillard, Russell Westrbrook or Steph Curry are not coming here. What is your reasonable alternative where we don’t end up with someone that should be a backup?

      The alternative is not to go for a big money PG this year. Trust Grant/Wroten/Calderon to hold it down for one year, invest in developing Grant/Wroten so that we don’t need to blow a bunch of $ on Rondo-like players. Then go for CP3/Westbrook next year if these guys aren’t good enough.

      Spend your money on good locker room guys who actually fit with the team’s philosophy rather than a ball-hogging malcontent who can’t shoot and whose best days are about 4 years behind him.

      I will be very surprised if Rondo gets any sort of big money deal. He was not good in Sac this year. Certainly not any kind of a difference maker.

      FWIW I’d much rather spend on Dellavedova (as an example) than Rondo.

    18. And honestly- without Melo this will be 25 win team for the next 2 years. I’m fine with incremental improvement.

      I’d happily be a 15 win team next year if it meant getting a young piece for Melo and having a top pick in next year’s draft.

      Hard to project the following year. By the start of 2017, you could potentially have two young studs playing with KP, or you can be coming off a 40 win season and talking about making the leap to being a playoff team that likely loses in the first round. I’d rather the former. Seems like we’re pursuing the latter.

    19. Hard to project the following year. By the start of 2017, you could potentially have two young studs playing with KP, or you can be coming off a 40 win season and talking about making the leap to being a playoff team that likely loses in the first round. I’d rather the former. Seems like we’re pursuing the latter.

      Problem is – there is no way this team will actually tank next year, like Sixer-style. Hornacek did not come here to tank, and certainly year 3 of 5 year plan makes it very unlikely Phil will do that. So even if Melo leaves, we’ll win something like 25 games, which may net us a top 5-6 pick, but certainly not guarantee a top 3 pick. That has maybe a 25% chance of netting us a difference maker.

      Even looking at the #4 pick since 2000, look how all over the place these players have been:
      KP, Aaron Gordon, Cody Zeller, Dion Waiters, Tristan Thompson, Wesley Johnson, Tyreke Evans, Russell Westbrook, Mike Conley, Tyrus Thomas, CP3, Livingston, Bosh, Drew Gooden, Eddy Curry, Marcus Fizer.

      Out of those, there are only 3 real difference makers (Russ, CP3, Bosh) and 1 too-early to tell (KP). I’ll even give you Conley. that’s 5 out of 16.

      The #5 pick is even worse, with only Cousins, Love, and Wade being theoretical difference makers (jury out on the 1st 2), and guys like Exum, Len, Thomas Robinson, Sheldon Williams, Felton, Tskitishvili etc as straight-out busts (compared to expectations).

      The #6 pick has exactly 1 difference maker in last 16 years – Dame Lillard.

      My point is – having high but not #1/2/3 picks is a good way to become Sacramento.

      The worst possible thing that can happen is 3 more years of suckitude here. I highly doubt it, but if Melo gets driven out of town and we suck for 3 years, KP may just decide to leave. And where would we be then?

      Yes – Golden State got a bunch of great players without great picks. But a) they were exceedingly lucky/good and b) they never tanked except the end of that season to make sure their pick didn’t go to Utah.

    20. I don’t think it would require tanking to be bad enough to get a top pick next year. Like you said, we’re a 25 win team without Melo (and that might be optimistic). 25 wins would have netted you the 3rd worst record in the league. 20 would have gotten you second. Even if it “only” gets us the #4 or 5 pick, the idea that we shouldn’t take that because some of them have been bad strikes me as illogical.

      As for Hornacek, it’s not like he was in high demand. And I don’t think he expected to compete for a championship. Let him install his system with young players.

      This is how we botched the Ewing era, too, for those old enough to recall. We got one major piece and instead of having any patience we started pursuing incremental improvements aimed at improving our 1-2 year outlook. This is why he never had a second stud in his career. We even traded the draft pick that the Bulls used to select Scottie Pippen for Gerald Henderson Sr (who might have been marginally better than his son, the current Gerald Henderson on the Blazers).

      We potentially drafted a generational talent, and we have a chance to add young, cost effective, long term support for his career. The #2 or 3 pick might be available. And a top pick next year is within reach. And we’re blowing that for what? For Phil’s window? For Melo’s? Come on.

    21. One can only hope we lose the first 15 games of the season

      Jesus. Get a hold of yourself. This is some depressing stuff. You do realize that the Knicks tied for most improved team by win total last season? And that could easily happen again this year with a new/better coach, some decent FA signings and natural improvement on the part of KP?

      But no, that sounds awful, let’s all hope the Knicks FO is fixating on how immiserate their marquee player to the point he demands a trade, in order to embark on a multi-year Hinkie style tank odyssey. Because if there’s one thing that attracts free agents, it’s a team that antagonizes their star player into leaving because he’s holding back the tank. And as we all know, nothing is better for young player development than multiple years of intentionally being as bad as possible.

      Get. A. Grip. Melo is not leaving. He knows it, Phil knows it, the rest of us know it. Why the people who run the organization should spend their summer fixated on a masochistic fantasy is beyond me. Kristaps is 20 years old–we will be able to both build around him and Melo and then rebuild around him once the Melo era is over.

    22. With the Ewing era it seemed like they always waited too long or got guys just as they crested the hill. They seemed to talk about Kiki Vandeweghe for years before they made the trade. Rolando Blackman had one last year in him. Larry Johnson went from a 20/10 guy to meh the second the Knicks got him. Mo Cheeks, Doc Rivers and Derek Harper were all veterans, at a minimum. I guess all they had was Oakley once they figured the Twin Towers with Cartwright was not going to work out.

    23. Blah blah blah trade melo blah blah blah

      We’re not trading Melo. And if we did, you’re still gambling on maybe getting a good player, probably not, and losing out on some prime KP training years. I’m really not in favor of tanking. It’s worked very rarely. In fact, most teams that tank keep having to tank, as good players they draft don’t want to stay in a tanking organization. Melo is also shielding KP from a ton of New York shit, and that’s a huge plus. Not to mention he is a great role model in terms of professionalism, conduct on the floor, etc. I like him. It’s not the worst thing in the world if he is here. It’s not even a negative in the way our other blunders have been (bad signings, trades, development, picks, etc.)

      The way you get better is by NOT TRADING PICKS, which was reason #1 the Ewing years and its aftermath were limited.

      We have to be a more patient fanbase.

    24. Does anyone honestly want Porzingis to pick up offensive tips from Carmelo Anthony? Honestly? Like, really? Like, “Here’s how you shoot an 18-foot fadeaway over two defenders?”

      No. If you really care about Porzingis’s development, you trade him to the Spurs for two years and then bring him back once you have good players. There, I solved the problem.

    25. Porzingis had a TS of .518, so fair to say he actually could learn a thing or two about scoring from Melo.

    26. What Melo does for KP is prevent him from having to be the main focus of the offense when he’s not ready yet. The same thing TD/Parker/Ginobili did for 3 years for Kawhi when his usage was 13–>15–>19 until the last 2 years when he became ready to roll as a main option (usg 25-28).

      Melo is also the media magnet (certainly in terms of negative press coverage) – lets KP fly a bit under the radar when it comes to the piranhas of the NY tabloids.

    27. in order to embark on a multi-year Hinkie style tank

      Being bad one more season is hardly a multi-year Hinkie style tank (unless you’re including 14 of the previous 15 seasons, during which we consistently focused on making incremental improvements to inherently flawed teams, like we’re doing now).

    28. . You do realize that the Knicks tied for most improved team by win total last season? And that could easily happen again this year with a new/better coach, some decent FA signings and natural improvement on the part of KP?

      We went from 17 to 32. You think we can “easily” become a 47 win team next year?

      If we hit on every move we make and Hornacek is the goods, I can see this team getting up to the 40-42 win range. But it will be extremely difficult. And even if we get there, that’s not worth giving up the opportunity to finally put the Carmelo Anthony Error behind us and pick up some long term support for Zinger.

    29. We went from 17 to 32. You think we can “easily” become a 47 win team next year?

      It’s never easy, but it’s not crazy to think it’s possible. Charlotte did exactly that this year by adding Batum and Lin and internal improvement from guys like Walker and Marvin Williams. Teams make those kind of jumps virtually every year and many times few people project those leaps to happen.

      Either way the Knicks don’t need to win 47 games. Make the playoffs, be relatively competitive and look for guys like KP, Grant, Galloway and potentially Hernangomez to progress positively.

      (unless you’re including 14 of the previous 15 seasons, during which we consistently focused on making incremental improvements to inherently flawed teams, like we’re doing now).

      We also gave away picks, traded away young talent and never had a prospect close to KP to develop in that time frame with the picks we did keep. It wasn’t just looking to make incremental improvements that killed us as much as giving away picks and assets hand over fist.

    30. You do realize that the Knicks tied for most improved team by win total last season? And that could easily happen again this year with a new/better coach, some decent FA signings and natural improvement on the part of KP?

      I think the improvement had to do more with losing a franchise record 65 games the year before than scrapping together 32 wins this year.

      (And I will bet a decent amount of knickerbucks that Minnesota improves more on their 29 wins next year than the Knicks improve on their 32.)

    31. @20

      Frank– this is the kind of thinking that has driven the Knicks FO thinking throughout Dolan’s tenure. Just because every pick doesn’t pan out doesn’t mean the picks should be forsaken.

    32. Frank– this is the kind of thinking that has driven the Knicks FO thinking throughout Dolan’s tenure. Just because every pick doesn’t pan out doesn’t mean the picks should be forsaken.

      I’m not saying we should be forsaking picks. I wouldn’t start trading them away or anything. What I’m saying is that we shouldn’t necessarily punt the next 2 seasons on the off chance that we happen to get difference maker.

      An interesting stat I heard around the time the Spurs got bounced by OKC was that out of the last 25 #1 picks, Tim Duncan is the only one to win a championship with that team.

      How many teams have all-out tanked for 1+ seasons and have had it work out for them? One (OKC/Seattle)? Maybe Philly will be the next team. Maybe Minny will be the next team. Hard to say though. Could be neither.

    33. We went from a 44 win pace in the last lockout season to 54 wins the following year by doing nothing but replacing Jeremy Lin with Raymond Felton and 89-year old Jason Kidd.

      Hell, Hornacek took the Suns from 25 wins to 48 in his first year of coaching. Let’s not act like a 47 win team is some pie in the sky dream.

      A new, better coach, some improvement from our young players, and (hopefully) a free agency period that results in us not running out the worst backcourt in the league every night, these are all eminently possible.

      And no, I am not going to hang the sins of Layden and Thomas around Phil Jackson’s neck. His vision of incremental improvement is a far cry from what passed for team building under previous regimes. And there is something truly sad about saying “the only way the Knicks know how to incrementally improve a team is to screw it up badly, therefore I hope we lose as many games in a row as it takes to poison our relationship with the franchise’s star player so that he demands a trade that will somehow net us great draft picks/assets despite not giving us much leverage and then we can lose lose lose some more to maximize our own draft picks and those picks will for sure turn into great players eventually because reasons and our young star in waiting will in no way have his development affected by blowing up the roster around him at the age of 20.”

    34. It’s one season: this one coming up.

      And I’m not saying tank. Play all our best players and give Hornacek a year with no expectation to do the best that he can.

      Chances are, without Melo, that will be enough to get us a good pick at the end of the season.

      By that point KP, whoever you acquired from the Melo trade, Galloway, Grant, Hernangomez, will all have played a year together. You can add another young player, and pick up any reasonably priced free agent you want.

      It’s a patient build, not a tank job.

      Or we can overpay for Kent Bazemore and Evan Turner and see how far Carmelo Anthony can carry that team (hint: not very).

    35. Or we can overpay for Kent Bazemore and Evan Turner and see how far Carmelo Anthony can carry that team (hint: not very).

      This doesn’t need to be the outcome this summer

    36. I think if we went into the season with Bazemore and Turner (and presumably resign Galloway and Thomas) we would be a really good team. Maybe not a top 3 seed in the east but solidly in the middle. Then from there our improvement would be tied to the growth of KP mostly, and Grant in a lesser sense. If KP becomes Dirk + defense, we’ll be a really good team for a long time.

      btw in addition to my general distaste for tanking, I really do think having Melo around to take pressure off of KP is really valuable.

      That said – if we HAD to make a trade, getting #3 + Jae Crowder would be a good enough outcome for me. Not sure if Boston would even do that. But draft Dragan Bender and we’d have the 2 Euro twin towers snipers for a decade+.

    37. I would much prefer Conley to Rondo (obviously). Do we have enough money to sign Conley and Courtney Lee? If not, then we could go for a better shooting guard. Batum, Fournier, Bazemore, Crabbe come to mind. I really wouldn’t mind having any of them starting for us. If we shoot the wad on the SG then we could just roll with Grant, Jose, Wroten at the point and improve that next year. Jose backing up the two youngins isn’t all that bad an option.

      I think that its imperative to upgrade our three point shooting though!

    38. FWIW I’d much rather spend on Dellavedova (as an example) than Rondo.

      That’s exactly what I wouldn’t do. Dellavedova is a bench player. We have to find a legit starter. I just read a quote from a news flash written by Ian Begley on ESPN:

      It sounds like Jeff Hornacek wouldn’t mind if the Knicks landed a point guard in free agency. Here’s the coach’s assessment of the point guard situation entering next year: “When you have a young player that’s inexperienced after his first year, he’s going to get better and better as the years go on. Jose’s kind of late in his career,” Hornacek said of rookie Jerian Grant and veteran Jose Calderon, who along with Tony Wroten comprise the point guards on the Knicks’ roster. “So if we can find a middle guy to bridge those two guys will be good. There’s a lot of guys out there. I’m sure Phil (Jackson) and Steve (Mills) are looking at everything.”

      That is exactly what I’m looking for. We need someone who can bridge the gap for 2 years while Grant develops.

    39. I think that its imperative to upgrade our three point shooting though!

      @40 I agree. Our two areas of need: Point guard and a 3+D shooting guard.

    40. This doesn’t need to be the outcome this summer

      But if we can’t get angry about mistakes the Knicks haven’t even made yet, how else will we pass the time? I understand it’s hard to give Phil Jackson the benefit of the doubt after he drafted Trey Lyles fourth overall, signed Greg Monroe to a max deal and made Kurt Rambis coach for life, but let’s try to see the glass as half full (and not of bleach).

    41. Hell, Hornacek took the Suns from 25 wins to 48 in his first year of coaching. Let’s not act like a 47 win team is some pie in the sky dream.

      2012-13 Suns Roster in decreasing order of MP, change in minutes in 2013-14

      Dragic +80 MP
      Scola (no longer with team)
      Dudley (no longer with team)
      Tucker +500 MP
      Gortat (no longer with team)
      Morris +350 MP
      Beasley (no longer with team)
      Brown (no longer with team)
      O’Neal (no longer with team)
      Johnson (no longer with team)
      Telfair (no longer with team)
      Marshall (no longer with team)

      Think of what Hornacek could do for Deez Knucks!

    42. Serpahin (no longer with team)
      Afflalo (no longer with team)
      Vujacic (no longer with team)
      Calderon (no longer in the rotation)

      By that metric, we’re off to a great start already!

    43. I really like the idea of a one year deal for Rondo because he posted a .225 WP48 this passed season and was worth close to 12 wins for the Kings according to that metric. He shot 36% from three point range and led the league in assists. I really really really really really wish he could shoot free throws at a better rate, but he’s only there 2.5 times a game for his career so that part of his game doesn’t get exposed historically. I like Rondo because he’s a guy that will get Melo and Porzingis more catch and shoot opportunities. Say what you want about him, but the guy would be an upgrade over every guard on our roster. If we could get him on a short term deal I think we would have to take it. Ideally you would get him a 40% 3PT shooter to play with, but those guys are hard to come by.

      I wonder what Atlanta wants for Korver or Sefalosha or both? We could give them Calderon or even absorb them for our 2023 second round draft pick or something considering the cap space we have. They would be great (and cheap, expiring) additions to the Knicks. Considering that Sefalosha and Korver combined to produce around 14 wins this season, I’d sign up for adding them despite their ages. Korver seems like a guy who can play until he’s 40 anyway.

      But yeah. Sign me up for Rondo on a team friendly deal. If the deal isn’t team friendly, I’d still be tempted to lock him up for four years because that’s a career .212 WP48 guy.

    44. Serpahin (no longer with team)
      Afflalo (no longer with team)
      Vujacic (no longer with team)
      Calderon (no longer in the rotation)

      Last year I made the point that we could improve significantly by just replacing the guys who were fucking terrible with guys who weren’t terrible. And that is pretty much what we did (except for Seraphin). Now we would want to do the same but replace the guys who were below average but not terrible with guys who are average. It’s harder, though, because some of those guys were young players who we aren’t going to get rid of (Porzingis and Grant). So to take another 15 game step forward we need to replace Afflalo, D-Will & Seraphin with solid pros, but we also need Kristaps and Jerian to get better. Or we could replace those guys with players who are better than solid pros-which isn’t going to be easy because good free agents are almost always expensive.

    45. Say what you want about it (and a lot has been said about WP48 on this website); it’s accurate.

    46. If nobody likes Rondo what about Evan Turner as our point guard? Can he handle the role? Then we could match him up with a decent 3 point shooter like Courtney Lee or Bazemore.

    47. I wonder what Atlanta wants for Korver or Sefalosha or both? We could give them Calderon or even absorb them for our 2023 second round draft pick or something considering the cap space we have. They would be great (and cheap, expiring) additions to the Knicks. Considering that Sefalosha and Korver combined to produce around 14 wins this season, I’d sign up for adding them despite their ages. Korver seems like a guy who can play until he’s 40 anyway.

      This begs the question, why would Atlanta just give them to us? For free, for Jose Calderon or otherwise?

    48. This begs the question, why would Atlanta just give them to us? For free, for Jose Calderon or otherwise?

      Because Phil is wonderful, and the future of the Knicks is amazing. Believe!!!

    49. Rondo is complete fool’s gold. I don’t care what WP rates him as. He’s a stat padding glory hunter who may have a marginally positive impact, but is awful defensively, can’t shoot 3s at enough volume for his percentage to matter, sucks at free throw shooting and is a bit eccentric. He will never be worth the money and paying him big money as a 1-year rental has the opportunity cost attached that you can’t lock up guys to long-term money this summer going in to a $90m cap when the cap is set explode again to $108m.

      I would rather lock up a slightly inferior player on a long-term deal, rather than sign anybody to a 1-year rental. If you want to roll over cap space you want those deals to be on the lower end in dollar value imo because every dollar is going to be worth less next summer.

    50. Evan Turner said this in February about himself:

      “You’ve got to respect a 15% 3-point shooter. A guy like that is always lethal. It’s 15%, but it’s a big 15%”

      How can you not like him?

    51. I would actually be in favor of a 1-year rental at PG, because I believe the Knicks could have a real shot at Chris Paul next summer if the Clippers don’t step it up in a major way, which I don’t think they can/will.

      I don’t know if Rondo is that guy, though. I’d rather overspend on a good young, and improving wing like Fournier and go for a cheaper rent-a-PG (Brandon Jennings?) so we can really see what we have with Grant.

      I think next summer CP3 could very easily bail on the stacked Western Conference to join his good friend Melo, rising star Porzingis, solid role players in Rolo/Fournier, and PG-friendly coach in Hornacek, in the biggest media market in the world and much softer conference.

    52. Rondo is not going to be a Knick. Why bother even discussing it?

      And any team that passes over Kay Felder after the lottery is gonna regret it, just like all the teams that passed over Draymond and Isaiah Thomas. The kid is by far the best athlete in the draft, can shoot and has excellent PG skills. He’s a slightly shorter Kyle Lowry. No, I’m not his agent, just a guy who roots for a team that’s desperate for a spark at PG.

    53. I say lets go big and offer the Bulls Lopez, a future 1st rd pick(w/protection), and the rights to Willy for Jimmy Butler. Then go from there. :)

    54. I dunno, man. CP3 gonna be 32 and he’s pretty short for an NBA player. For every John Stockton there’s pretty much every other point guard in NBA history who was under 6’2″. If anyone can do a Stockton, it’s CP3, but I don’t know that’s how I’d plan things for the long term.

    55. Chris Paul has been a top-5 player since he joined the league and has never been anything worse than that. It’s gonna be real weird when he stops being awesome at basketball for the first time in his life, but it’s gonna happen pretty soon, probably.

    56. Yellowboy,

      I think that’s actually a fair trade, value for value. It would give us an excellent 2 guard and, in return, make Chicago’s front court much stronger; but I am not sure Chicago would do it. For them it would seem like they are giving up a star for a role player, an unproven guy and a draft pick, so it would be the sign of a major rebuild for them. I don’t know if they are ready for that. The other problem is that the Knick front court would get much weaker. Kyle O’Quinn would be our nominal starting center (or maybe we would re-sign Seraphin). I think O’Quinn is likely to be better this year (he won’t be going to college in his spare time), but that line up is a big risk to take.

    57. I doubt Chicago would do the trade either but they are in for a rebuild regardless come 2017 when Rose, Gibson, & Dunleavy(partial guarantee) come off the board. Plus, Mirotic will be up for a new contract. I guess I should wait until FA season to see what they do but unless they think Rose will return to normal they are in a rebuild.

    58. This is how we botched the Ewing era, too, for those old enough to recall. We got one major piece and instead of having any patience we started pursuing incremental improvements aimed at improving our 1-2 year outlook. This is why he never had a second stud in his career. We even traded the draft pick that the Bulls used to select Scottie Pippen for Gerald Henderson Sr

      The trade was for Henderson and the pick that they used to draft Mark Jackson. So it wasn’t really a very Knicksy trade (as defined by the Dolan era Knicks) because they didn’t trade out of the draft altogether, and in fact drafted the rookie of the year that year.

      It was when they started giving away picks for aging, expensive vets only that things went to complete shit.

    59. Chicago is much more likely to get rid of Rose than to move Butler, and if they’re smart enough they won’t have to enter a real rebuild. They can build around Mirotic, McDermott, and Butler. Bobby Portis is a good start and this summer’s free agency could change things for them. I doubt they move Jimmy Butler to anyone but Boston for that bag of picks they’ve been offering. Jamal Murray would be a great fit for Chicago, too.

    60. The Butler trade had more to do with the rumors of dislike between Butler and Hoiberg. I’m sure they would want to trade Rose before Butler but who would take him? I think they just wait and push the reset button in 2017.

    61. Say what you want about it (and a lot has been said about WP48 on this website); it’s accurate.

      Sacramento added Rajon Rondo, Koufos and Willie Cauley-Stein (positive players in terms of WP), Belinelli, Quincy Acy (average WP players in San Antonio and NY), and lost Jason Thompson, Derrick Williams, Ray McCallum, Carl Landry, Nik Stauskas (below average players in WP in Sacrramento).

      They also played 1000 minutes less of McLemore (which is a below average player)

      They just improved 4 wins. If Rondo is worth 12, the numbers clearly dont match. Obviously, WP assigns correctly the team value, but it has no idea about how to give credit to each individual player. This can be seen as how the WP48 of these players change from team to team.

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