Knicks Morning News (2016.06.02)

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: Andre Iguodala Remains Warriors’ Unsung Hero (Thu, 02 Jun 2016 01:12:35 GMT)

    Iguodala, the N.B.A. finals M.V.P. last season, will probably draw the assignment of guarding LeBron James again. But if he had success doing so last year, he is the last one who will say so.

  • [New York Times] N.B.A. Finals: Golden State Warriors vs. Cleveland Cavaliers (Thu, 02 Jun 2016 06:30:24 GMT)

    In a rematch of last year’s N.B.A. finals, the Warriors will try to win their second consecutive title. Game 1 is Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Round 2: LeBron, Curry Square Off Again in NBA Finals (Thu, 02 Jun 2016 00:15:50 GMT)

    LeBron versus Steph. King James versus the Baby-faced Assassin. Nike versus UnderArmour.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    60 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.06.02)”

    1. Really interesting article about how the Cavs can have a chance against the W’s.

      It’s really true that limiting shot quality seems to have no real effect on Steph and Klay. You can literally be hugging them on the play and it’ll probably still go in.

      For those who don’t want to read the article – basically it says the only way to beat the Ws is to actually limit # of shots period by concentrating on rebounding and forcing turnovers. It’s basically ceding the eFG factor to the Ws, and trying to win all the other factors. Of course OKC won 3 of the 4 factors and still lost, but they came way closer than any other team in the last 2 years.

      Will be very interesting to see how many minutes Love and Kyrie play together, and conversely how much Shump and Delly play.

    2. Golden State is going to fry the Cavs. What saved the Thunder so many times was once Steph blew past Russell Westbrook Adams or Ibaka was waiting for him to alter his lay up attempt/force him into a reset. The Cavs don’t have an elite rim protector on their roster. I have no faith in Delly or Shump when it comes to containing the greatest shooter of all time and arguably one of the five greatest shooters of all time. They are going to need God Mode LeBron again and they are going to need huge games from the supporting cast. This Warriors team is pretty hard to figure out. What they lack in the turnover department they make up for in eFG%. I think Love and Thompson will out rebound GSW and I also think they’ll win the turnover battle. It’s just I’m not sure winning the rebound and turnover battle is enough to beat the Warriors even though it’s enough to beat every other team in NBA history. These guys are scary.

    3. Hey, has anyone else taken a good look at Kay Felder as a draft target? I watched some video and read some evaluations and he reminds me a lot of Nate. To get a player with that level of skill in the late first/early second might be pretty cool. Thoughts?

    4. I think Fielder would be a nice low level 2nd rd chance if you have a pick already.

      My question is what is O’Quinn worth? He is still fairly young, 26, is productive role player, and of course is on a great contract. Is he worth a 18-26 pick? I ask because I am trying to think of a way for the Knicks to get Denzel Valentine. He seems to be dropping in the mocks I’ve seen and I think he might be a steal. The dude shot 44% on 7.5(3PAs), and avg 7+ rebs and 7+ ast while only turning the ball over 2.7 times. Look at this note from Draftexpress:
      http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Denzel-Valentine-58739/

      Valentine is the only player in our extensive college basketball historical database (dating back around 30 years) to average over 19 points, 7 rebounds and 7 assists per game. The only ones to come close are Penny Hardaway (23, 8+6 as a sophomore at Memphis in 1993), Evan Turner (20, 9+6 as a junior at Ohio State in 2008) and Michael Anderson (24, 6+7 as a senior at Drexel in 1988).

      .

      Looking at those players stats it leaves out that they also committed more turnovers; Hardaway(3.4), Anderson(5.2), and Turner(4.4).

      So the numbers say Valentine is an elite play maker that take care of the ball.

      Another interesting talent is his ability to shoot different type of threes. He is great at shooting it off the dribble, coming off screens, or just spotting up. He is not quite Buddy Hield level but he is near that level and has had a 2 year span of high volume and high percentage 3pt shooting. Last year DV avg 41.5% on 6.3(3PAs). Last year Buddy only shot 35.9% on 7.4(3PAs). It’s amazing that he shot so well while functioning like a high level point guard.

      cont.

    5. I think what scares people is that Valentine had weight issues and will need to work on his body. At the combine it list his body fat at 9.1%(210 lbs). That’s pretty high for an elite athlete. In a way he reminds me of Jared Dudley when he came out of BC and needed to change his body. Surprisingly, Dudley was listed at only 7.1%(219 lbs) body fat. To look at him at BC it seemed like he would have been listed in double digits. If he can change his body it might help him improve some of his negatives of lack of quickness that hurts his lateral quickness or first step explosiveness. His Defense is his real negative and is the only thing I really worry about. However, he is so good at everything else that you live with that and hope he improves.

      My comparison of Valentine is like across between Hield, Dudley, and Evan Turner.

    6. Denzel Valentine plays like a better shooting Evan Turner, but his athleticism scares me some. You always have to second and third guess a guy who isn’t a plus athlete when you plan on adding him to a league filled with the world’s best athletes at his projected positions.

    7. Although a coach can only do so much, and most coaches fall in the fat belly of neither great nor awful, I think this is a good day for the Knicks. Hornecek seems a lot more likely to become a really good coach than a terrible one, even if the odds are high that he will fall somewhere in between. Now let’s get to being the Knicks and get Evan Turner on the phone.

    8. Denzel Valentine plays like a better shooting Evan Turner, but his athleticism scares me some. You always have to second and third guess a guy who isn’t a plus athlete when you plan on adding him to a league filled with the world’s best athletes at his projected positions.

      I understand that but that’s why I think he might be sleeper. Some of his weakness are due to his body structure. Although he has done a decent job getting into better condition he is not in the best condition he can be. It’s similar to the flaws Klay Thompson had coming out as a junior at Was. St.
      http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Finding-a-Niche-For-Klay-Thompson-3722/

      While there are some concerns about Thompson’s athleticism hurting his offensive game at the next level, the bigger concerns lie on the defensive end, where he is noticeably lacking in lateral quickness and is taken off the dribble often.

      Thompson’s effort level on the defensive end has improved during his time in college, and he shows solid awareness and makes good rotations off the ball, but his lack of quickness is certainly something that can be exploited. His problems can be hid somewhat on good defensive teams, and his apparent effort level and capacity for playing good team defense will certainly be useful, though he’d have a lot of work to do to even become an average NBA defender overall.

      Thompson’s defensive problems should be equally pronounced at either the shooting guard or small forward positions, and the questions for teams will be how much can they coach him up and whether his offensive strengths do enough to outweigh his defensive shortcomings. His progress as a junior and strong season overall definitely quell those concerns, at least somewhat.

      Now, I am not saying Valentine will be Klay but there are some similarities as a shooter. DV even put up better numbers than Klay. DV may never be Klay but give me a better playmaking version of…

    9. My question is what is O’Quinn worth? He is still fairly young, 26, is productive role player, and of course is on a great contract. Is he worth a 18-26 pick? I ask because I am trying to think of a way for the Knicks to get Denzel Valentine

      I can’t imagine O’Quinn’s value is very high. He’s 25, has regressed, and struggled to get minutes on one of the worst teams in the league. I’ve never seen Washington play, but based on what you’ve presented here, would you trade that pick for him?

    10. It’s really true that limiting shot quality seems to have no real effect on Steph and Klay.

      Those guys don’t just hit ridiculous shots all game long. The Warriors eFG% is so high because they average 29 assists per game, putting them among the all-time top assisting teams. Really it’s just the Magic Lakers and the Bird Celtics (and that Doug Moe Nuggets team that played at the fastest pace ever) that out assisted these Warriors per game. They create a lot of high percentage shots. But, yeah, when you suffocate the ball handler and force them to take bad shots, they often hit them anyway.

    11. have no faith in Delly or Shump when it comes to containing the greatest shooter of all time and arguably one of the five greatest shooters of all time.

      They’re being asked to guard Kerr? What?

    12. I can’t imagine O’Quinn’s value is very high. He’s 25, has regressed, and struggled to get minutes on one of the worst teams in the league. I’ve never seen Washington play, but based on what you’ve presented here, would you trade that pick for him?

      Did O’quinn really regress last year? I see that his TS% went down but he did a better job in almost every other category except steals. I think it maybe hard to crack #2o for O’Quinn but I do not like the bigs in this class. How valuable is a legit rotation big on a good contract?

    13. Steph Curry, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Steve Kerr, Kyle Korver, Klay Thompson. You could argue Klay over Kerr and Korver because he can create his own shot. Peja Stojakovic probably belongs up there too.

      But here’s a question; would anybody here give Rondo a 2 year, $30 million deal now that Hornacek is our coach? He shot 36% from deep last year and 45% from the field overall (but that 58% from the line is what keeps his TS% so low). It’s a risk for sure, but he’s a good player (if a volatile one) and he wants to be here. The one thing I worry about after the Hornacek signing is that he’s not rough enough a ryder to handle egos like Rondo.

    14. But here’s a question; would anybody here give Rondo a 2 year, $30 million deal now that Hornacek is our coach?

      Hmm, let me think about that for a micromillisecond….NOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

    15. This is random but, I’m having a discussion with the rapper Murs (he’s a Knicks fan) on Twitter and he’s arguing that DWill put up KP’s numbers with 1/2 the minutes played. I’m not very savvy with bball ref but this can’t be true, can it??

      I also defended the KP & THJ for 19th pick (Grant) trade and he says the better move would have been Mudiay with the 4th pick and then Kaminsky with the 19th.

      Thoughts?

    16. If you’re talking just about scoring, DWill was better than KP. All around? Nah.

    17. @16

      Can you see this link? Otherwise, use the player comparison tool at BB ref or Boxscoregeeks.

      http://www.boxscoregeeks.com/players/compare?utf8=%E2%9C%93&player_ids%5B%5D=489&player_ids%5B%5D=3076&season=2015

      Pretty similar numbers, actually. Porzingis grabs double the ORB, which is a big deal, but turns it over about 40% more often. Double the fouls, which is bad but he’s a rookie so it’s no surprise. (Foul numbers are often astronomically high for rookies.)

      Remember that KP is a rookie, though. Yes, their production was similar, but Derrick Williams has almost no chance of serious improvement.

    18. I also defended the KP & THJ for 19th pick (Grant) trade and he says the better move would have been Mudiay with the 4th pick and then Kaminsky with the 19th.

      Mudiay is hot garbage. People that wish they had Mudiay should be creaming themselves over the thought of Tony Wroten Jr.

      Kaminsky wasn’t even available with the 19th pick.

      Murs is an idiot.

    19. The Kaminsky thing is especially odd. The dude went ten picks before #19!

    20. Personally, I would have gone with Towns at #19, but, you know, #knicks

    21. But here’s a question; would anybody here give Rondo a 2 year, $30 million deal now that Hornacek is our coach? He shot 36% from deep last year and 45% from the field overall (but that 58% from the line is what keeps his TS% so low). It’s a risk for sure, but he’s a good player (if a volatile one) and he wants to be here. The one thing I worry about after the Hornacek signing is that he’s not rough enough a ryder to handle egos like Rondo.

      I really think we’re going to roll with the combo of Calderon, Wroten, Galloway, and Grant at the PG.

      My guess is we spend most of our FA money on the wing position. Assuming both AA and DWill leave, we’ll need at least 2 bodies there, hopefully more productive than the ones they are replacing.

    22. Personally, I would have gone with Towns at #19, but, you know, #knicks

      It was really annoying how they decided to take Grant in the THJ deal over Towns. I knew that wouldn’t work out.

    23. This is random but, I’m having a discussion with the rapper Murs (he’s a Knicks fan) on Twitter and he’s arguing that DWill put up KP’s numbers with 1/2 the minutes played.

      awesome, this is the most 2016 sentence ever. tell Murs that DW couldn’t sit right here and guard these barstools. he’s the body pillow pimp tryin’ struggle with his shadow. be my zingis tonight. not available on basketball reference.

    24. haha, glad I could provide that for you ptmilo.

      Jowles, thanks for the link. I tried on bball ref but I couldn’t figure out how to isolate just DWill’s current year – it was comparing his whole career to KP’s whole career.

      Also, this was my first time interacting with you and you didn’t attack or ridicule me – thanks! jk.

    25. I really think we’re going to roll with the combo of Calderon, Wroten, Galloway, and Grant at the PG.

      My guess is we spend most of our FA money on the wing position. Assuming both AA and DWill leave, we’ll need at least 2 bodies there, hopefully more productive than the ones they are replacing.

      I think you’re spot on. Hopefully with Hornacek here, Turner will be out, as I don’t see him fitting Hornacek’s style. Grant must be chomping at the bit to play under Hornacek.

    26. I think you’re spot on. Hopefully with Hornacek here, Turner will be out, as I don’t see him fitting Hornacek’s style. Grant must be chomping at the bit to play under Hornacek.

      Someone should ask Howard Beck who we’re getting. He called Lopez and Afflalo last year, and obviously had the Hornacek scoop this year.

    27. Steph Curry, Ray Allen, Reggie Miller, Steve Kerr, Kyle Korver, Klay Thompson. You could argue Klay over Kerr and Korver because he can create his own shot. Peja Stojakovic probably belongs up there too.

      No one ever watch Drazen Petrovic during his breakout seasons before his tragic death @ 28? from ~27 feet Curry and Allen (maybe) are the only other guys I would consider. He shot 44% from 3, 25 years ago when no one else was in the same zip code.

    28. But here’s a question; would anybody here give Rondo a 2 year, $30 million deal now that Hornacek is our coach? He shot 36% from deep last year and 45% from the field overall (but that 58% from the line is what keeps his TS% so low). It’s a risk for sure, but he’s a good player (if a volatile one) and he wants to be here. The one thing I worry about after the Hornacek signing is that he’s not rough enough a ryder to handle egos like Rondo.

      With all due respect to all the anti-Rondo folks out there, I am 100% behind a Rondo signing.
      He led the league in assists
      He played 35 mpg
      He can drive to the hoop
      He made the playoffs
      He’s a really good defender
      Rondo is NYC personified
      He’s FAR better than ANYONE on the Knicks or available as a FA

      He’s a head case but I would take Nate Robinson, JR Smith and any number of other head cases on this team if they can play because NICE GUYS FINISH LAST.

      If you want to argue against this position, please don’t use the “he’s a jerk” rationale because I agree that he is, but that’s not a valid reason to keep him off the Knicks. We’ve had worse. Much worse. And we’ve made the playoffs with them.

    29. If you want to argue against this position, please don’t use the “he’s a jerk” rationale because I agree that he is, but that’s not a valid reason to keep him off the Knicks.

      Is his WS/48 have been well below league average the past 3 seasons and he is a guy whose game is predicated on speed just turned 30 with an injury history good reasons not to pay him 15M per year?

      Oh, yeah…. he’s an ass hat, too

    30. He made the playoffs

      You’ve said this a few times now. The Kings didn’t make the playoffs. Are you thinking of when he was on the Mavericks the year before?

    31. Brian, You are right. I messed that up.

      However,
      Rondo played in every game for the Kings, was 17th in minutes played in the NBA. It doesn’t look like his past injuries impacted his speed.

      He was 7th in steals (2.0/game)
      He posted a 2.9 VORP. Basketball-reference only lists top-20 players but since #20 was 3.3 I’ve gotta guess he was around 30th.
      His 4.6 WS would put him 3rd on the Knicks behind Anthony (6.4) and Lopez (5.8)

      Who’s better that’s available? Are we putting our eggs in Calderon basket again? Tony Wrotten? Grant?

    32. Rondo is a loser.

      Rondo has a ring from the 2008-9 Celtics.

      Petrovic was a great shooter.

      Agree 100%. He was deadly.

    33. He posted a 2.9 VORP. Basketball-reference only lists top-20 players but since #20 was 3.3 I’ve gotta guess he was around 30th.

      It was 1.9 not 2.9, which was 62nd. And I don’t know how many Kings games you watched last year, but it must have been the worst 1.9 in history. Rondo was a basketball clown. He would wander off on defense like he saw a butterfly. Once he hit 9 assists he would start passing up open layups to crank the boxscore. He got road rage about twice a game. The Kings were worse when he was on the court than off, which is saying something. That has been true of Rondo every year for the last four years. Peak Rondo was a basketball player, current Rondo is something else.

    34. If you want to argue against this position, please don’t use the “he’s a jerk” rationale because I agree that he is, but that’s not a valid reason to keep him off the Knicks. We’ve had worse. Much worse. And we’ve made the playoffs with them.

      That argument assumes we had any say in the acquisition of those “worse jerks,” and that therefor we cannot use that argument because we brought their jerkiness upon ourselves. This is clearly false.

      I didn’t like them then, and I really don’t want players like that now. I want a team that is good, and that I can get behind and root for because I like them. So not wanting a player because he’s a schmuck is (still) perfectly reasonable.

      Also, Rondo has actually sucked these past couple of years. Anyone remember the time he cost Dallas a possession because he took too long casually dribbling the ball upcourt and actually got an 8 second violation?
      With absolutely no ball pressure being applied to him.
      In the playoffs. (Which, given that you assign the fact that he has made the playoffs before such a plus, this should be particular damning)

      I don’t mean to judge a guy on a single possession, but that seems to be to be pretty indicative of the player as a whole at this point in his career.

      Who’s better that’s available? Are we putting our eggs in Calderon basket again? Tony Wrotten? Grant?

      Personally, I prefer we put our eggs in the “we don’t need to blow all of our cap this offseason just because” basket. If we can get good players on reasonable contracts, great. Sign them. If not, there is absolutely no reason to spend our cap on players like Rondo just to make a move. If that means we go into next season with the PG position as a question mark, I’m ok with that. Better than being saddled with Rondo for the next few years.

    35. Sixers and Hawks apparently talking about a Noel-Teague trade. Presumably, Atlanta would be giving up more than just one season of Teague.

      Atlanta had seemed like one of the better matches if we were looking to trade Lopez. This would take them out of that, obviously, if it happens.

    36. As for Rondo, he’s one of the weirdest players in the NBA, both on and off the court. I’d take him for a year because why not? And it would be interesting as an experiment. But I doubt he’d want that.

    37. The Sixers about to do so much stupid shit. I wish we had assets.

      “We finally got rid of Hinkie, so now it’s time for some moronic trades!”

    38. Yeah pass on Rondo for me. You could maybe deal with his personality pre-blowing out his knee when he was playing at an All-Star level, but not know. Maybe on a cheap 1 year deal, but that is unlikely to happen.

      Interesting reading on the potential Noel trade. Sounds like they might potentially move Okafor instead. I get they have a log jam of bigs with Embiid being (potentially) back and Saric coming over, but it seems pretty pre-mature to be looking to deal a former No.3 pick after his rookie year. I suppose they have other needs and could definitely get a better haul from Okafor than Noel, so I guess you do your due diligence and float them around to test the waters.

    39. The Sixers about to do so much stupid shit. I wish we had assets

      Shumpert for Noel, Saric, and a half-dozen draft picks… Ah, what could have been

    40. If the sixers are going to take Simmons, they should look to run. Simmons might not be able to shoot, but he’s enormous, can rebound, handle the ball and passes better than anyone his size since Lebron. So that means Jahlil gotta go, and you keep Nerlens for at least this season as insurance against another Embiid injury.

    41. Curry and Thompson 4-16 and the Warriors are up 11. Not a good sign for the Cavs.

    42. Somehow this game is about Livingston, Barbosa and Iggy oblitering all the former Knicks

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