Knicks Morning News (2016.03.25)

  • [New York Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis' double-double helps Knicks win back-to-back over Bulls (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 00:53:05 EDT)

    The last two nights, the Knicks have played like the team they were earlier this season, when they looked as if they could compete for a playoff berth. Kristaps Porzingis also has seemed to regain the bounce and form that made him the NBA's next rising star.

  • [New York Post] Arron Afflalo may opt out if Knicks make him a bench player (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 02:26:10 -0400)

    The old standby is: It doesn't matter who starts but who finishes. Well, Arron Afflalo did his very best to present a diplomatically correct acceptance of that adage after recently going from starter to sixth man for the Knicks. "I guess it's just my job to be professional and give the team whatever they feel…

  • [New York Post] How these meaningless Knicks games can shape next season (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 01:15:09 -0400)

    Nine games are left after the Knicks completed a home-and-away sweep of the fading Bulls on Thursday to get to 30 wins — awash in Garden cheers. Their first back-to-back triumphs since mid-January were meaningless in the standings for the Knicks but meaningful in the tweaks management is trying to incorporate under interim coach Kurt…

  • [New York Daily News] Melo, Porzingis drag Knicks out of turmoil to sweep of Bulls (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 01:55:01 GMT)

    It had been two long months since the Knicks won back-to-back games.

  • [New York Daily News] Bulls players describe Tom Thibodeau’s love for New York (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 00:47:11 GMT)

    As they reel to mediocrity without Tom Thibodeau, Bulls players provided glowing referrals and reviews for their former coach.

  • [New York Times] Durant’s 20 Points Lead Thunder Past Jazz 113-91 (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 07:27:45 GMT)

    Russell Westbrook’s triple-double rampage has overshadowed Kevin Durant’s emergence as a dominant passer.

  • [New York Times] Redick’s Buzzer-Beater Lifts Clippers Past Blazers (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 05:36:37 GMT)

    J.J. Redick hit a 21-foot jumper as time expired to lift the Los Angeles Clippers to a 96-94 victory over the Portland Trail Blazers on Thursday night.

  • [New York Times] Nets 104, Cavaliers 95: As LeBron James Concentrates on Playoffs, and Fans Focus on Him, Cavaliers Fall to Nets (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:44:06 GMT)

    James played down the criticisms he has recently faced, which include unfollowing the Cavaliers’ Twitter account.

  • [New York Times] Thunder Win Sixth Straight Game (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 04:03:27 GMT)

    Oklahoma City has been on winning streaks before. In fact this season alone, they have had runs of six consecutive wins twice.

  • [New York Times] Pacers’ Turner Celebrates Birthday in Style (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 03:57:28 GMT)

    With his parents in town to help celebrate his 20th birthday, Indiana Pacers rookie Myles Turner wanted to mark the significance of the day with specific numbers Thursday night against the New Orleans Pelicans.

  • [New York Times] Carmelo Anthony Leads Knicks Past Bulls, 106-94 (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 03:27:37 GMT)

    The New York Knicks are playing spoiler — at the Chicago Bulls’ expense.

  • [New York Times] Knicks 106, Bulls 94: Back-to-Back Wins Give the Knicks a Rare Streak (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 03:12:54 GMT)

    Two straight victories over the Bulls created a bright spot for the Knicks in an otherwise gloomy season.

  • [New York Times] Nets Blow by LeBron, Cavs in 4th, Win 104-95 (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 02:57:38 GMT)

    LeBron James was so good for three quarters that the only one who could stop him was his own teammate.

  • [New York Times] Pacers Celebrate Turner’s Big Birthday by Beating Pelicans (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 02:36:44 GMT)

    Indiana Pacers rookie Myles Turner had the perfect vision for his 20th birthday bash.

  • [ESPN.com – New York Knicks] Friday's Knicks Links: Porzingis leads New York over Bulls again (Fri, 25 Mar 2016 05:31:17 EST)

    Friday's Knicks Links: Porzingis leads New York over Bulls again

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    95 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.03.25)”

    1. With all of the nattering nabobs of negativity in here, this team is getting better every day. KP, Grant, Wroten, now Willy. Plus all of our draft picks after this year. Plus money to spend on free agents. Rome wasn’t built in a day.

    2. Not sure Wroten is part of getting better. I like that he’s athletic, big for a guard and can penetrate, but he’s a bad finisher, terrible shooter and turns it over a lot. Low risk gamble though.

    3. Not sure Wroten is part of getting better. I like that he’s athletic, big for a guard and can penetrate, but he’s a bad finisher, terrible shooter and turns it over a lot. Low risk gamble though.

      Yeah, he costs basically nothing, so I don’t mind the signing, but man, if anyone’s waiting for Wroten to do anything good when he’s healthy, that’s like a much shittier version of “Waiting for Godot.”

    4. If Hernangomez really does come over and can be a nice fit off the bench, I wonder if the Knicks will shop OQ in the offseason? He really seems to be deep in the doghouse.

    5. O’Quinn sure does seem like he’s just one of those guys that is simply uncoachable, so you see him not play a lot on a shitty Orlando team and you think, “They’re just being stupid by not playing him more” but then he gets here, and it actually seems to make sense that he doesn’t play a lot on a shitty New York team either. Like, “Oh, okay, Orlando, I get it now. My bad.”

    6. I was a huge KOQ fan, but he’s been terrible. He’s just such a complete dumbass when he plays and has no concept of positioning defensively. His contract is reasonable and the fact he can hit a J with some range from the center spot along with his physical measurables makes me think they can find him if need be. He did have other teams interested last summer as well, so if they just are looking to clear cap space they should be able to move him.

    7. In the preseason, when he was looking like Oakley 2.0, I said to a guy I know who covers the NBA that I couldn’t believe Orlando gave up on him so quickly, He said Orlando coaches and front office believed O’Quinn was lazy, and I shouldn’t get too excited just yet.

    8. Ditto on the sentiment of high hopes for OQ. He’s got the game so reminiscent of Oakley and we love that about him, but mentally- they are 2 different creatures. Oak was fiercely loyal and willing to run through a wall for his coach and team. I don’t get that same sense with OQ. Hopefully he stays and the next coach can get through to him. With Hernangomez coming over, OQ may lose his spot. Hell..Phil may even bring Seraphim back. OQ’s already lost his spot to him.
      The projection for the team was 33 wins, I believe- with a stretch of 35 wins? This team can realistically go 5-4 over the last 9 looking at the schedule. More likely, the team will go 4-5, either way we top the initial projection of 33 wins. Not something to write home about, but not a total failure like last season. I really believe Fish would have lasted the season if not for the off court circus he was involved in. To me, that’s much better than considering Rambis for the full time gig. And the more I think about it, though I am intrigued by Walton’s potential as a coach, Thibs should be the next coach. Given the presence of Lopez, KP, Galloway, Lance, OQ, and Grant- it makes sense that Phil hires a coach with a sound defensive system. He can always hire a lead assistant that can craft an offense that makes sense and have that guy focus on that side of the ball. Even if it’s the triangle offense.

    9. Only a Knicks fan gets excited because the Knicks only owe one future first rounder despite the fact that any respectable team with the Knicks W/L record over the last few seasons has spent them collecting multiple other teams’ first rounders.

    10. I think about it, though I am intrigued by Walton’s potential as a coach, Thibs should be the next coach.

      I don’t think Walton will be the coach just for the fact that we just had a young coach. I think Thibs will be the guy and Jackson and Mills will let him know about Melos minutes. He cant push melo to near death ala Luol Deng

    11. Thibs didn’t push Deng nearly to death. That was the Bulls’ totally inept medical staff who is still doing inept shit.

    12. I still like O’Quinn and think he deserves more minutes. The problem appears to be that he’s not in the best shape and is kind of lazy. I think he’s basically being punished and moved down the pecking order for not working as hard as other players in practice. It’s on him to get in better shape and be motivated, but sometimes bigger paydays take a player’s drive away.

    13. Two years ago: Wah wah wah we’re building for now and it’s hurting our future

      Now: Wah wah wah we’re not progressing fast enough

      Phil has been around for less than two freakin years.

    14. From Google translation of news story claiming Willy Hernanogomez is definitely coming to the Knicks next season:

      That’s good news, if credible. It was reported a few weeks ago that he was looking to stay.

      O’Quinn sure does seem like he’s just one of those guys that is simply uncoachable

      Yeah, he is just really weird. He is better than Seraphin even given the fact that his play is hurt because seems to believe he is Boris Diaw. But I can understand why his coaches don’t want to accept that. If you’re great do some annoying things (James Harden) or good and do some annoying things (prime Josh Smith) you mostly have to live with it as a coach. But if you’re just meh, the marginal benefit of making a point to the rest of the team and being less annoyed might win the day.

    15. In the preseason, when he was looking like Oakley 2.0, I said to a guy I know who covers the NBA that I couldn’t believe Orlando gave up on him so quickly, He said Orlando coaches and front office believed O’Quinn was lazy, and I shouldn’t get too excited just yet.

      Orlando was the same team that gave up a relatively “cheap” young player in Tobias Harris (averaging 18/6/3 with TS 58 and WS/48 0.171 with Detroit) for two guys on expiring contracts who aren’t as good, hoping that they’ll be able to leverage Scott Skiles and Orlando into a big free agent splash. And didn’t even extract a pick out of it. So not sure that Orlando’s FO and/or coaching staff should be an authority on player evaluation.

      that said – it sure seems like KOQ should be better than he is.

    16. Everyone focuses on PG, but I think the bigger weakness is SG. It would be great if we could upgrade both significantly, but I agree with Rambis that Afflalo is a bench player. I don’t think Galloway brings enough to the table consistently to be a starter yet either. Obviously Sasha is no more than a deep bench player either, but I understand why Rambis plays him. Just by knowing the system best, it probably helps with the execution and he’s simply not that far off the others if you exclude that horrible start to the season he had.

      The only question for me is who they can get at SG. I think Batum is the best option if they can get him, but it sure would be nice if they could get Conley and Batum. If Afflalo opts out and they do something with Calderon to free that extra 5 million, that would free about 32m in cap space. That’s pretty close to adding very 2 high level players even if not those 2.

    17. If what y’all are saying is true, I can understand why a coach wouldn’t want to play Kyle, but if the alternative is Kevin Seraphin then you should play Kyle 100 times out of 100. Seraphin does loads of stupid shit out on the floor, like shooting the basketball and watching guys on the other team pull down rebounds. Seraphin, by every measure I can find, is one of the worst players in the NBA. This is why you shouldn’t have useless ass players like Seraphin on the roster. Even if the coach is right to be mad at Kyle, you can’t have the alternative be no upside garbage, because the coach is going to play that guy-and he might, on some level, even be right to do so.

    18. @22

      I agree.

      I keep imagining what his team would have been like with Schved instead Seraphin. Not that he was any kind of star, but he was pretty good for us, still had upside potential, and would have helped the offensive flow because he would have brought several things to the table that we needed.

    19. I didn’t like letting Shved go while spending more than the same money he wanted on Lou and Lance, but I at least understood why they didn’t want to dip into the Room Exception to bring him back, since I agreed that it made sense to hold on to the Room Exception to sign someone interesting during the season.

      And then they used the full Room Exception on Seraphim.

      Yikes.

    20. Yeah, Oquinn does a lot of stupid stuff on the court. I remember him taking a three and being taken out right away. And then doing it again.

      Yeah, I liked Shved. I don’t remember him being at all good on defense, though, right?

    21. If James is thinking sooner rather than later, could such a team — let’s call them the Banana Boats — contend with Golden State next season?

      The Cavaliers could realistically swap Kevin Love for Anthony, possibly as part of a long-rumored three-team trade sending Love to the Boston Celtics with young talent and draft picks going to the New York Knicks for Anthony. Meanwhile, a Paul-Kyrie Irving swap would make sense for the Clippers if Paul used his ability to leave as a free agent in the summer of 2017 as leverage to force them into a trade.

      ohhhh yeahhhhh

    22. gimme all tha Jae all tha Amir

      they don’t need ’em with K-Love in the mix

      shit do they need Isaiah?????

    23. Would you rather have Crowder and the Brooklyn pick this year or Kyrie straight up?

    24. Kyrie’s defense has been so atrocious since he’s come back that I’d go with Crowder and the pick. I’m not confident Kyrie can stay healthy enough to reach his potential. Crowder is already a good player, and he’s not much older than Kyrie. Pretty sure thing + potential is better than just potential is how I’m looking at it.

    25. Crowder, absolutely. 100% Crowder. There’s no question. 54% volume shooter? No thanks.

    26. Crowder and BKN pick for sure. Would try to get them to throw in one of their excess young PG/SGs too (Terry Rozier, RJ Hunter, etc.).

      But honestly, I’d take Kyrie also.

    27. I’d take Kyrie over any PG on the Knicks, but he ain’t that good, okay? Very good at taking lots of shots. Very good at making them, also good at missing them. If you want to make the Conference Finals you need winners, not losers, okay?

    28. Crowder and pick. A better than average player and a pick for future development. Kyrie is often hurt. Unless it’s been Carmelo type of “hurt”, Kyrie is closer to “if only…” than HOF.

    29. I’d go Kyrie because it’s a PG league and I’m pretty sure he is better than a 31% 3pt shooter.

      Give me Kyrie plus Thibs and I’ll take my chances.

    30. Jowles is in the middle of one of his biannual “phases.” I remember when he was speaking urbanesque.. it was weird.

    31. I’d trade for Crowder and the pick because Kyrie’s injury history is ridiculous. Also pretty sure we could get more out of such a deal than that from Boston. Ainge is desperate for a star.

    32. Why trade Melo now when we are on the verge of becoming a really good team? I don’t want to be Philly with a unicorn.

    33. We’re not on the verge of becoming a “really good team.” We’re on the verge of becoming a 8th seed, first round exit of a team.

      But it’s maybe more helpful to look from another angle: if the goal is to win a championship, and not just to be a .500 or slightly better, what’s the point of acquiring big free agents at this point and time? Even if we became *really* good in the offseason, there’s a 0% chance we could ever win a chip so long as Golden State and San Antonio exist in their current forms–which they will for the foreseeable medium-term future (2-5 years.) Why not intelligently hoard assets and make value plays and settle for maybe being an 8 seed if we’re lucky/a better team that we’ve currently been but with a more stable, healthy future centered around Porzingis and a crop of young players?

      People fail to understand that there’s literally zero point in building a good team when Golden State exists, and we should just focus on hoarding assets for the time when they eventually break up an all-time dynasty.

    34. People fail to understand that there’s literally zero point in building a good team when Golden State exists, and we should just focus on hoarding assets for the time when they eventually break up an all-time dynasty.

      Well would you rather watch Sasha Vujacic for another 5 years? Because I’d much rather watch a mediocre .500 team for 82 nights a year and possibly the playoffs, than Sasha Vujacic for 50 games before I become disgusted by the team and can’t watch them anymore.

    35. There is an enormous difference between “on the verge of becoming a very good team” and “.500 team.”

      .500 is a pipe dream right now, very good is damn-near impossible. The Spurs are the only team with a shot at the championship outside of Curry, (Kl)ayyyyyy lmfao and company. There’s no point in continuing the charade that somehow Melo is a couple role players away from the 2012-13 Knicks reborn. It’s just false.

    36. Well would you rather watch Sasha Vujacic for another 5 years? Because I’d much rather watch a mediocre .500 team for 82 nights a year and possibly the playoffs, than Sasha Vujacic for 50 games before I become disgusted by the team and can’t watch them anymore.

      There’s the optimal way of doing things and there’s the optimal way of doing things if they’re not going to trade Melo, which they’re not. So yeah, I’m in for them trying their best to make the playoffs in 2016-17 and then maybe getting even better in 2017-18. It’s all we can really hope for since Melo leaving is off the table. I also think Melo might be willing to not take a pay bump when he re-signs here in 2019. So they’ll get him at just $30 million a year for his age 35-37 seasons.

      While I know Melo is not leaving, what I am not positive about is whether they’d be willing to give Thibs a shot. I don’t think they will be, but here’s hoping! That I at least have a little hope could happen.

    37. People fail to understand that there’s literally zero point in building a good team when Golden State exists, and we should just focus on hoarding assets for the time when they eventually break up an all-time dynasty.

      Uh golden state wasn’t born from tanking. They only tanked to get Harrison Barnes who is the worst player of the core four. You can gradually grow into a good team. It takes great management and coaching but it can be done. I don’t want to sit through 4 years of last year to MAYBE get lucky and MAYBE win a championship.

      This is like the assine Melo to Chicago for 69 million dollars to Maybe be a great team and maybe win. You think Melo on Chicago is beating GSW? Fuck no…sacrificing for maybes is illogical

    38. Golden State had just gotten eliminated in the first round when Melo turned down Chicago. No one was basing their decisions around what Golden State was doing at the time.

    39. So because Golden St is too good the Knicks should become the 76ers for the next 5 years?? Pat Riley’s Knicks would be rolling over in their graves considering they had to deal with MJ’s Bulls.

    40. Knicks will have their first round pick every year going forward (after this year). Even if we make the tail end of the playoffs, we should improve just by virtue of having young cheap draft picks. We can stock pile assets, wait for KP to mature and then cash in on some FA after Melo moves on. I don’t see this as a terrible strategy, we don’t need to flat out tank and be miserable for 5 years in order to do this.

    41. i don’t quite understand the backlash on him…. he is wildly productive when he’s on the court…

      while he’s prone to some dumb mistakes… those are exactly the things that can improve with age… and namely more playing time… it befuddles me that he’s not getting more time especially with nothing at stake…. if for no other reason than to increase his trade value….

      to me… he could be the ideal pair with porzingis.. someone who has passing instincts who can play in the high post…

    42. Knicks will have their first round pick every year going forward (after this year). Even if we make the tail end of the playoffs, we should improve just by virtue of having young cheap draft picks. We can stock pile assets, wait for KP to mature and then cash in on some FA after Melo moves on. I don’t see this as a terrible strategy, we don’t need to flat out tank and be miserable for 5 years in order to do this.

      It’s not a terrible strategy. It’s just not a particularly good strategy, either. It’s basically NBA No Man’s Land. Good enough to make the playoffs, never quite good enough to win a title. It’s where teams like the Pacers have lived for over a decade. I can certainly live with it, though, as it at least means watching playoff games (and every once in a while, things come together and you can at least look like contenders, like the 2012-13 Pacers). I’ve said before that I can live with being the Woodson-era Hawks. At least they got to be in the playoffs every year (by the way, I don’t believe that they will “move on” from Melo in 2019).

      Ideally, I’d like to see them rebuild around Porzingis and see what they can do with high lottery picks in 2017 and 2018, but since that’s never going to happen, watching playoff basketball isn’t an awful alternative. Sure beats long playoff droughts without any young players, like the mid-2000s Knicks.

    43. and to speak to our future success… we’re a lot closer to playoff contention than many realize and it has everything to do with porzingis and the trajectory he is on…

      the list of big men 20 yo or younger who have put up PER’s as high as his is not long… here’s the list:

      1. Lebron
      2. Anthony Davis
      3. Shaq
      4. Andre Drummond
      5. Dwight Howard
      6. Chris Webber
      7. Elton Brand
      8. Kevin Garnett
      9. Towns
      10. Chris Bosh
      11. Joe Smith
      12. Brook Lopez
      13. Porzingis
      14. Shareef Abdur-Rahim

      Now he might be closer to the bottom half than the top half but that’s still good company…. and i think his trajectory is very comparable to someone like a taller Chris Bosh….

      if he makes any progress at all …. and chances are good that he makes a mini leap next year and if melo manages to maintain his current level of play… we have the makings of a middling playoff squad…

      our failings this year lie mostly in the massive holes at both guard positions and i’m not sure how much of that gets fixed this offseason… but if we manage to fill it with some ok guys then I would say our upside is something like a 4 seed… and if we get some major luck then we might even be higher…

      many ppl underestimate how quickly things turn around… okc as a recent example…. and it’s because young superstars develop a lot quicker than ppl realize… and porzingis is right there…

    44. Crowder and the pick, and it’s not a close call. Cost-controlled years, fellas.

      Maybe this whole LeBron-Melo-Paul super team thing will start gaining traction, and Melo will DEMAND rather than accept a trade. The Knicks are utterly irrelevant and that is bad for Melo’s, uh, “brand.”

    45. Maybe I misspoke–when I say “there’s zero point in being a good team” what I mean is that wins should take a back seat to building a healthy program and a healthy future. What this means is that we rebuild from the ground up–which is *not* the same as tanking, though it can involve it–trading aging veterans and overvalued players for young cost controlled assets with upside or current tangible value. Wins should arise organically from clever roster construction, not from the hodgepodge signings of aging and overpaid journeymen and veterans during free agency, which is what we’ve been doing since the early 2000s. And when wins do arise organically, the totals tend to stay around from year to year, which is exactly what our win totals *dont do*

      Boston doesn’t have a “superstar”; they don’t have a “veteran” (Thomas, Bradley, maybe?? That’s stretching the definition of veteran, imo”)that plays a huge role on their team, yet they’re in an enormously promising position from which it is easy to parlay an advantage.

      What we should be doing is stop focusing on the playoffs and focusing on building a good team–Jackson and Melo are both too short sighted to see that. Nobody has yet to offer a good reason for why we shouldn’t be building from the ground up besides the assertion that Melo is never leaving: that’s likely true, unfortunately.

    46. Nobody has yet to offer a good reason for why we shouldn’t be building from the ground up besides the assertion that Melo is never leaving: that’s likely true, unfortunately.

      That pretty much is the only reason. No no trade clause? 80% of the other GMs in the league? There’s a rebuild. But since there is a no trade clause that Melo has no interest in waiving and since there is a short term thinking GM here, well….yeah, that’s where we are.

      So with that in mind, I guess you just hope that they pick the best free agent guards possible!

    47. Going forward, Phil kinda has “righted the ship” and has the team in a good position. So despite his mistakes, it’s not as dark as it has been over the past decade or so. Whether Phil can put together a championship team before he leaves is still up for debate, but in Lopez-KP-and our own picks and cap space going forward, the team has a good launching pad. I still think KP should never be asked to be the leading scorer, only because his versatility is his greatest asset. At 7’3″, he can do damn near everything. Asking him to worry about gettin 30 a night might take away from everything else he has to offer

    48. Maybe this whole LeBron-Melo-Paul super team thing will start gaining traction, and Melo will DEMAND rather than accept a trade. The Knicks are utterly irrelevant and that is bad for Melo’s, uh, “brand.”

      The problem is that all of the true stars on the Banana Boat are just minutes away from being past their prime. LeBron has taken a nose-dive in regular season production since last year. His Finals performance was one for the ages, but he also shot terribly and hasn’t come close to peak Miami performance. Carmelo is the same old whatever he’s always been. Dwyane Wade is shooting 51 TS% and has been in the league for thirteen years. He is not good at basketball. Paul is still the greatest PG since Kidd’s prime and possibly since Stockton retired. How long that lasts, I’m not sure. He’s hyper-athletic but he’s a 6’1″ PG and not many of those age like Stockton did.

      The problem with the problem is that none of them realize it. If LeBron seriously thinks that Wade, Carmelo and Paul are going to lift him to a championship, he’s truly delusional. Maybe they win the East, but in two, three years? They’re going to be a terrible “underachieving” team.

      So my point is that the sooner they can come together and make that awful decision, the sooner we can celebrate the end of the Carmelo era.

      It’s funny how LeBron has never considered going to the Spurs despite them playing the kind of basketball that anyone with gifted court vision should want to play. They gave a max contract to LaMarcus. Why not have taken his talents to South Texas?

    49. Lebron is not going to San Antonio.

      Watching Kawhi and Lebron on the floor together would be pretty sick though….

    50. Shved would probably be the best high value low cost pickup the Knicks can make this offseason.

      His strengths (driving the lane and drawing fouls) are exactly what this needs on offense. And it doesn’t hurt that he’s an okay long range shooter.

      Ideally, I’d rather have both Afflalo and Shved as the backup SG’s.

      I do think that Phil wanted to bring back Shved, but just simply ran out if money pursuing bigs last summer. Now, with more than enough bigs, they’ll address the guard problems.

    51. Shved got 10 million dollars over 3 years to go back to Russia. He’s the highest paid player in the euroleague. Instead of being a scrub in the NBA he’s a star back home.

    52. The Banana Boat will be formed in Los Angeles. LeBron will sign with the Lakers and Melo will waive his no trade clause to play with the B-Boat. The Lakers will then trade D’Angelo Russell and either their 2016 selection or their 2017 pick to the Knicks for Melo. Wade will sign his contract in LA and CP3 will leave the Clippers in 2017 to join the Lakers.

      All LeBron has to do is get the ball rolling and we can put D’Angelo Russell and Brandon Ingram around Porzingis. Of course Tony Wroten and Evan Turner will be getting the bulk of the minutes at SG, but you can’t win it all I guess.

    53. Every other year there is a rationale to not try to build a great team. It was the Heat. Now it’s the Warriors. Things change quickly. All it takes is a major injury to Curry (not that I’m rooting for that…) and it falls apart. Hell, in three years, Curry will be 31. Do you really think he’ll be producing like he is now? It’s unlikely he’ll ever replicate this season. Combine Curry reverting to even just the 13/14 version of himself and pair that with the inevitable roster losses GSW will face as Barnes and Ezeli become free agents, and now GSW is no longer a 70+ win team. They’re a 60-65 win team.

      And sure, GSW did not pick at the top of the lottery in building it’s roster. It picked mostly in the mid-lottery. It got lucky. When Google first opened, it hired a masseuse for a piddly wage but gave her stock options. She became a multi-millionaire as a result. If your son’s goal was to be a millionaire, would you tell him, “Just become a masseuse!” No. Because that woman just got lucky. That happens. It’s a big part of life just as it is a big part of building a great team, but that doesn’t mean there are no consequences to your actions. It doesn’t mean that if you have a goal, there’s no point to working to achieve it. You make the choice that according to the info you have at the time, gives the best chance of achieving that goal. If you don’t, IMHO, you have zero right to be disappointed if you don’t achieve it.

      ON the other side of the spectrum is Philly, which has become this bogeyman that apparently haunts the darkest nightmares of all fans. But how did Philly end up in the situation they were in when Hinkie took over — when their best player was freakin Thaddeus Young? They waited to effing long to trade Iverson and so got nothing for him in return. They sat in the hell of mediocrity even after AI left, never getting an impact lotto pick. Then when things weren’t working out, rather than facing the music, they said, “let’s trade all our young guys for ANDREW BYNUM!” Bad luck to be sure, but also a decision that a franchise in their position should never had contemplated if it aimed to be more than mediocre.

      The truth is if you accept that you are too old and not good enough to win with your current core, you have a window to break your team apart and jumpstart your rebuild and give yourself a great chance to be better than you were within a couple seasons. It’s the teams that are too greedy to make those sacrifices that end up in the Philly type situations where there’s no other choice but to just tank.

    54. Please give Wroten a chance. He’s only 22 and can get better but even in his present form could help us. I can’t believe all of the negativity in here sometimes. We’re heading in the right direction.

    55. Please give Wroten a chance. He’s only 22 and can get better but even in his present form could help us. I can’t believe all of the negativity in here sometimes. We’re heading in the right direction.

      Tony Wroten has been a terrible, terrible player for over three seasons. Sure, it doesn’t hurt the team to give him a chance. I’m fine with the signing. It’s a low risk move. It’s also a low reward move. There’s a huge difference between saying, “Hey, sure, let’s give this shitty young player a chance on a barely guaranteed contract” and saying, “I’m going to assume Tony Wroten is going to be a good player despite being terrible in his first three plus seasons and being cut by the shittiest team in the NBA.” The latter is just wishcasting.

      If “the right direction” is “win more games than this season,” then sure, they’re probably going to achieve that. It’d be hard not to do that. If “the right direction” is “head towards realistic long term success,” then not so much.

      But hey, if this is where the team is, this is where the team is. And since Melo is going nowhere, then this is where the team is. They’re the Sixers with an aging Iverson. Good enough to make the playoffs most years, which is something. It really is something. I like seeing playoff games. And I’ve long resigned myself to this being what we’re going to get out of this team, so all you can do is hope for the best. Hope for the best, of course, not assume it will happen for no logical reason.

    56. I just want to be a perennial 50 win team that wins a playoff series or 2 every for a 9 year stretch like the 1992-2000 Knicks were. They were not always legit championship contenders during that stretch but they reached 4 Conference Finals and 2 NBA Finals plus lost in the 2nd round 3 times in 7 games. That’s more than enough for me. I’m only a championship or bust fan when it comes to the Yankees lol.

    57. Shved got 10 million dollars over 3 years to go back to Russia. He’s the highest paid player in the euroleague. Instead of being a scrub in the NBA he’s a star back home.

      While true, he made it clear he’d take less money to play in the NBA. He didn’t even ask for the entire room exception (which is something like $2.8 million). The Knicks, though, wouldn’t offer him more than what they offered Lou.

    58. I just want to be a perennial 50 win team that wins a playoff series or 2 every for a 9 year stretch like the 1992-2000 Knicks were. They were not always legit championship contenders during that stretch but they reached 4 Conference Finals and 2 NBA Finals plus lost in the 2nd round 3 times in 7 games. That’s more than enough for me. I’m only a championship or bust fan when it comes to the Yankees lol.

      I’d love that, as well. But boy, this team’s path sure doesn’t seem to match that team’s path. Remember how old Ewing seemed in 1994, when that team more or less peaked (1993 was probably the peak, but since 1994 they were one win away from a championship, I’ll count that as the peak)? Melo will be that age next season!!

    59. I thought 1995 was our last chance. When Ewing missed the layup and Riley left right after even though I was just 15 at the time I had a feeling I was done watching a team capable of winning a championship especially since Jordan had returned and Ewing looked like he was on his last legs. 1995-1996 was a transition year where they basically made no additions and actually got rid of guys to free up cap space for the summer of 1996 (Greg Anthony, Charles Smith and then Hubert Davis after the season). That season started off surprisingly well under Don Nelson but it soon turned into a revolt which is how JVG became interim coach. They swept the Cavs in the 1st rd (as the 5th seed) before giving the 72 win Bulls team a decent series despite winning only 1 game (the only playoff game that Bulls team lost before the NBA Finals). But the moves they made during that summer got me super excited again.

      In hindsight they shouldn’t have wasted cap space in signing Childs and you could argue trading Mason for LJ was a mistake but signing Houston at that time was a great move (his 2nd contract wound up being a disaster). They had 3 picks in the 1st rd (of course they traded all 3 the following summer). They won 57 games and seemed like a legit threat to the Bulls in the conference finals before the fight vs the Heat ended that. Ewing’s injury derailed the following season although we did get a memorable series win vs the Heat in the 1st rd. 1999 and 2000 were my 2 favorite seasons and teams (granted the lockout regular season was a near disaster). The way those teams played their asses off in the playoffs is something I’ll always remember. They weren’t as good as Riley’s Knicks but they were more fun and less frustrating to watch. I have nothing but great memories of those teams, I just hope they don’t wind up being the best years of my Knicks fandom lol.

    60. Well, I mean, those were great years, ya know? So if that’s really the best we get, it was still pretty freakin’ awesome.

      But I think those teams showed the importance of cutting your losses sooner than later. Imagine if they hadn’t traded Oakley for Camby! Or if they hadn’t been willing to punt 1995-96!

    61. While true, he made it clear he’d take less money to play in the NBA. He didn’t even ask for the entire room exception (which is something like $2.8 million). The Knicks, though, wouldn’t offer him more than what they offered Lou.

      How weird is it that Shved was rewarded for his good play by being low balled and Lou and Lance were rewarded for their terrible play with a raise? I mean you had to give 200k+ over his max or he would have walked? That couldn’t have been a real issue so they just wanted to give him a raise for being a locker room guy on the worst team in NY history. Was Lance going to get more than a vet min deal anywhere else? It’s just confusing to break down what they were thinking. I would not have gave Shved the room exception but like you said if it was a choice between him and KS, i’d choose Shved.

    62. I think the issue was that Shved wasn’t going to take just a one-year deal while Lance and Lou were willing to take one year deals (heck, since they got raises, they were likely thrilled to take one year deals). Once he locked in his main signee, Lopez, and his one longterm value guy (O’Quinn), Jackson’s main interest was to preserve as much cap space for this offseason as possible, so lots of one-year deals (and “two year deals” that were essentially one year deals as the player options were quite low). Since Shved had a 3-year/$10 million deal waiting for him in Europe, I think he wasn’t going to stay here for less than 2 years/$5 million.

      I, too, didn’t really have a problem with not giving him most of the room. Until they then gave all of the room to Seraphim, a signing we all knew was doomed to failure as soon as it was signed.

    63. Re: Wroten

      Forget shooting the three I’d settle for becoming a 75% FT shooter. I was never a Wroten fan but I did post earlier in the year about I’d be okay with him signing for the vet min and being placed in the DL as a low risk high reward option. I mean they kept the 15 spot open for so long at least give it to someone. My first choice would have been Christian Wood but that’s just me.

      Also, although he has been on a roster for 3 now 4 years I wouldn’t really call him a 3 year pro. He has played less minutes than Galloway and he only has a 1 1/2 under his belt. It’s still unlikely that he becomes a quality role player though.

    64. Jackson’s main interest was to preserve as much cap space for this offseason as possible, so lots of one-year deals (and “two year deals” that were essentially one year deals as the player options were quite low). Since Shved had a 3-year/$10 million deal waiting for him in Europe, I think he wasn’t going to stay here for less than 2 years/$5 million.

      You think he was really worried about an extra $2.5m? That’s money you can buyout and stretch if it comes down to it or why not just use the Lance/Lou money to get Shved to take a 2yr/$6m with team option.

      Also, what FAs did he foresee in 2016 being available? I guess he needed money to get Evan Turner away from Boston. lol.

    65. My thing with Wroten is we have Grant so to me Wroten is redundant unless they have kinda given up on Grant already which would be stupid. I mean sure whatever take a flyer on Wroten, those are the type of signings they should be making. But I’m not holding my breath that he becomes anything decent, at least Grant is an 80% FT shooter (79% in college so not a fluke) and was a decent 3pt shooter in college so there is still hope he can become a decent shooter in the NBA. Wroten is a career 65% FT shooter after shooting 58% from the FT line in his 1 year in college.

      I have more hope for Grant than Wroten and even then its just hope that he can be a decent backup PG which is fine for a late teens 1st rd pick.

    66. If your team can win 50+ games in 5 of 6 seasons, you followed a reasonable path (or lucked into it). If it seemed to me like this Knick team was on the cusp of that level of success, I’d be happy.

      The best parallel to this current Knick team that I can think of right now is like the 2006 76ers. You’ve got one promising young guy who probably won’t be a superstar but is very exciting (Philly’s was Iguodala). You’ve got a couple solid role players without any growth potential and then a bunch of total randoms and an aging scoring machine (Iverson/Melo) whose at the stage of his career where he may soon lose all trade value. That’s not exactly a path I want to walk down.

    67. I think Porzingis has a ton more potential than Iggy did, but otherwise, yeah, they otherwise are pretty similar to that Sixers team. Or, really, any number of teams in a similar situation over the years (aging star player). There have been a number of example of teams like this that refused to cut bait on their star player and paid the price for it.

      Buuuuuuuuut, if you take it as a given that Melo is not leaving (and I do), then at least they probably will sign a couple of guards better than what they have this year (it’d be hard not to), so they will improve. I wouldn’t mind seeing a playoff series. :)

    68. You think he was really worried about an extra $2.5m? That’s money you can buyout and stretch if it comes down to it or why not just use the Lance/Lou money to get Shved to take a 2yr/$6m with team option.

      I really do. Remember, he could have cut Felton or cut JR. He didn’t because he wanted as much cap room as possible. I think he thinks pretty much every offseason will be the one he nets a couple of top free agents, and thus wants as much cap room as possible at the start of every offseason. Like turning down Shane Larkin’s $1.6 million option before he played a single game as a Knick.

    69. I’m not sure why posters are talking about Wroten as low reward. If you look at the players he’s similar to at his age (which I posted before) it’s an impressive list. One of them would be high reward.

    70. The main thing for me is that we are looking like a normally patient rebuilding team. Despite the “win now” feel of the Melo signing, we have not squandered a single draft pick in a “win now” trade. We didn’t trade down and compromise out chance for a home run in last year’s draft, nor did we go for the low-risk, low ceiling guy with the #4 pick (e.g. WCS, Kaminsky). We have an intriguing draft-and-stash guy to get excited about in the Summer League, making this year’s lost draft pick a bit less painful.

      I want to get a couple of better guards, but are guys like Conley and Teague really worth max or even near max contracts?

      I would rather that Phil not do anything this offseason, causing Melo to be upset and to demand a trade. Then look for a stud PG with the assets we get in return, hopefully our own and acquired draft picks in the 2017 and/or 2018 drafts.

      That would be vaguely similar to what we did in the 80’s when we gave up on Bernard and started building a guard rotation around Ewing through the draft. After 3 horrible seasons (and I was at more than half of the home games during that stretch) the Ewing era really began when Jackson and Strickland came on board via the draft. Unfortunately, we traded Strickland for Cheeks, etc. and never quite got over the hump.

      But Phil probably doesn’t do that, does he?

    71. Wroten is an absolutely horrible shooter. Why would anyone think his shooting is going to improve to a useful NBA level? He can be a very good defensive guard, but I never had much love for guards that can’t shoot.

    72. In a 2 guard front like the Triangle guys with skills like Grant and Wroten can theoretically play together as long as one of them can shoot. In fact it makes more sense to have two combo type guards in some ways than to have a strict division of PG and SG duties. It doesn’t really matter because Wroten in all likelihood will suck even though his size, athleticism and ability to penetrate are what we really need.

      As far as guards are concerned I’d rather avoid going after a name PG this summer and looking two sign 2 wings instead. If we do want a guard to sign long term I think Dellavedova is underrated.

    73. Z-man,

      Because it’s happened for other guards who were his age and similar to him.

    74. I took it straight from fivethirtyeight.com’s similarity scores. Not all the players he’s similar to are good, but some are. So I considered that indicative, but not a guarantee of potential.

      Lou Williams, Dion Waiters, Jim Jackson, Larry Hughes, Austin Rivers, Jordan Crawford, Tyreke Evans, Marcus Williams, Jerryd Bayless, Quintin Dailey, in descending order of similarity.

      Link is here

      http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/carmelo/tony-wroten/

    75. Lou Williams, Dion Waiters, Jim Jackson, Larry Hughes, Austin Rivers, Jordan Crawford, Tyreke Evans, Marcus Williams, Jerryd Bayless, Quintin Dailey, in descending order of similarity.

      If that is not a list of low upside, I don’t know what is. Six terrible replacement level players. Three below average players. And Lou Williams. Who is maybe around average if you ignore his very bad defense. Shooting isn’t Wroten’s only problem. He has zero right hand, and he may have actually have been advantaged in that respect playing for a terrible Sixers team, because defenses may not have cared enough to adjust.

    76. I would rather that Phil not do anything this offseason, causing Melo to be upset and to demand a trade. Then look for a stud PG with the assets we get in return, hopefully our own and acquired draft picks in the 2017 and/or 2018 drafts.

      That would be vaguely similar to what we did in the 80’s when we gave up on Bernard and started building a guard rotation around Ewing through the draft. After 3 horrible seasons (and I was at more than half of the home games during that stretch) the Ewing era really began when Jackson and Strickland came on board via the draft. Unfortunately, we traded Strickland for Cheeks, etc. and never quite got over the hump.

      Sign me up!

      I’d be down with your plan big time.

      The thing that kills me is that, as you note, they have some good blueprints to follow (the 1990s Knicks snd the 1970s Knicks, the only team to win a title, and specifically the team Jackson even played for! built around a young star big man using the draft) and they’re not going that route.

    77. So then, if we add new Lou Williams and new Scola as well as sign a Batum doesn’t our team get much better?

    78. That’s some inspired wishcasting there. I do like me some Batum, though! I sure wouldn’t mind seeing that guy in a Knick uniform.

    79. You may not think much of the list I posted, but all the players who are on it had multi year NBA careers and had regular minutes during those years. That would be a good return for what we’re paying. Even if he turns into a Dion Waiters, which we all wouldn’t like, that’s still a player who had trade value. OKC gave up Amundsen, Thomas, Kirk and a protected first round pick in order to get Waiters.

    80. Even if he turns into a Dion Waiters, which we all wouldn’t like, that’s still a player who had trade value.

      That’s true though by that standard we should have held onto Chris Smith in case someone wanted to give us a first rounder for him. Taking a low cost shot on Wroten doesn’t bother me in the least. I mean, at least he’s still young and has a couple of traits that are interesting in a huge longshot kind of way. Just don’t name your lottery numbers and get them tattoo’d on your scapula because the 538 simluator mentions Lou Williams; the guy has a lot going against him.

      And remember the 538 matches have a nuanced selection bias for a guy like Wroten, who got a lot of minutes on a uniquely terrible team. If we imagine all the NBA washouts would could have put up similarly bad overall #s to Wroten and company through 3000 minutes, the space is really large. But teams don’t play usually those guys, say the James Whites of the world, enough to make the comp base unless they were big prospects to start. Which is why that list is biased towards high first round picks, and I think Lou is the only 2nd besides Wroten on there. So you don’t get to see the huge list of D league type players that would have put up similar scores but never get minutes.

      Lou is a silly comp in the physical world anyway, their games are worlds apart. Tyreke is the most interesting good-case comp. He’s a bad shooter, has similar length, and also likes to drive but has no off hand. He looks a lot less spastic than Wroten and is bulkier, but Wroten tries harder.

    81. That’s a good point about the selection bias. There could be many players like him who didn’t make the list of possible comps in CARMELO, and thus aren’t noted as comparable players. In Wroten’s defense though, he was available because of injury. I think Phillie might have kept him if he didn’t get hurt.

      Fivethiryyeight is entirely statistically based and doesn’t look at playing styles at all. So you know more than it does when you suggested Evans as a better comp.

      The other thing I noticed is that the actual similarity numbers for Wroten are not especially high, so he’s a flyer in more ways than one.

    82. Guys who turn the ball over at a rate similar to Tony don’t generally turn out to be good NBA players.

    83. The other thing I noticed is that the actual similarity numbers for Wroten are not especially high, so he’s a flyer in more ways than one.

      Oh good. I made the edit. That makes more sense.

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