Knicks Morning News (2015.08.12)

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Flip Saunders Has Cancer (Wed, 12 Aug 2015 03:29:40 GMT)

    Saunders, the Minnesota Timberwolves’ president and coach, said that he was being treated for Hodgkin’s lymphoma, and that his doctors considered it “very treatable and curable.”

  • [New York Times] Carmelo Anthony Takes Step in Test of Knee (Wed, 12 Aug 2015 02:07:42 GMT)

    Taking part in a light, noncontact workout with U.S.A. Basketball, was a small but noteworthy step for Anthony, who has not played basketball since February, when he underwent surgery to repair a damaged tendon in his left knee.

  • [New York Times] Square Feet: Dreams of a Hip, High-Tech Sacramento Hinge on Kings’ New Home Court (Wed, 12 Aug 2015 01:09:08 GMT)

    The Golden 1 Center is the nexus for renovation and new construction that many hope will turn the capital’s downtown into a hot spot.

  • [New York Times] Timberwolves’ Flip Saunders Says He Has ‘Treatable’ Lymphoma (Wed, 12 Aug 2015 00:47:04 GMT)

    Flip Saunders had quite a challenge on his hands when he returned to Minnesota two years ago to take over the moribund Timberwolves.

  • [New York Daily News] Knicks’ Porzingis PF commitment scared off LaMarcus Aldridge (Wed, 12 Aug 2015 02:36:05 GMT)

    If the Knicks had any hope of signing LaMarcus Aldridge as a free agent, it was erased by their commitment to Kristaps Porzingis.

  • [New York Daily News] Carmelo practices with team USA, diffuses unhappiness talk (Wed, 12 Aug 2015 00:14:51 GMT)

    Carmelo Anthony was practicing with some of the very best the NBA has to offer on Tuesday.

  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    103 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2015.08.12)”

    1. In general, Melo talks in simplistic riddles. I stopped paying attention to him long ago. It’s refreshing that Jackson isn’t paying any attention to him either.

    2. He said Jackson told him his plan long ago. Thats isnt not paying attention. You guys are hilarious man

    3. Continuing the discussion on last thread:

      Look at the roster construction of this team vs. the team Walsh constructed before blowing it up for Melo:

      2015 Knicks vs. 2010 pre-Melo Knicks

      Melo vs. Amare
      Lopez vs. Mozgov
      Calderon vs. Felton
      Afflalo vs. Fields
      Porzingis vs. Gallinari
      Grant vs. Douglas
      O’Quinn vs. Turiaf
      DWilliams vs. SWilliams
      Galloway vs. Mason
      Seraphin vs. Randolph
      Thomas vs. Walker

      Isn’t this a much better team, both for now and for the future, than that team was?

    4. O’Quinn vs. Turiaf

      We can hope O’Quinn turns out better on the court than Turiaf (a serviceable role player asked to do way too much that year), but the new guy has a long way to go in terms of his beard game and his incredulous reactions from the bench.

    5. How is ” I didnt say none of that shit” a riddle?

      Which some of that shit did he say?

    6. Isn’t this a much better team, both for now and for the future, than that team was?

      I don’t believe so, no.

      First off, in the now, of course that team was better. You’ve said so yourself that you think that the most likely result for this year’s Knicks is that they finish under .500. That team was over .500 at the time of the Melo deal and most likely was going to finish around .500, probably over.

      Secondly, as to the future. That team was in a much different NBA set-up. Cap room was a much more important asset back then because every team in the NBA was not about to be able to have $20 million in cap room in a year (plus another $10 million the next year). Thus, the Knicks were set up very well for the following: 1. Trade assets for one soon-to-be free agent (most likely Chris Paul) and 2. Sign one max free agent (most likely Melo) while still having one or two assets left over to pair with STAT.

      This year’s squad has two notable advantages – even though he’s 31, Melo is still a better player at 31 than STAT was at 28, due to STAT’s injury concerns and the current Knicks might have a star rookie in Zinger. But I don’t think either of those advantages outweighs the fact that that team was a better team in the now and had more of an advantage in getting star players to take the team to the next level. An advantage Dolan set on fire because he’s a moron.

    7. your first point it conjecture. This team hasnt played a game. They could win 50 for all we know

    8. Yes, it is conjecture. What the hell else are we supposed to go by to answer the question? As if conjecture is somehow a bad word or something.

    9. Sure, fine, the 2010-11 Knicks were projected to make the playoffs. The 2015-16 Knicks are not projected to make the playoffs. Is that better for you? Every projection system imaginable had the 2010-11 Knicks better than the 2015-16 Knicks. Not by some huge margin, of course, as the 2010-11 Knicks were a mediocre team. But they were projected better than this year’s team. They were regularly projected at 37 wins and the #8 seed.

    10. Brian, you could be right (I also left Wilson Chandler off the list), but I would offer the following:

      Melo is as good for present and better for future (at a smaller % of cap) than Amare was
      Lopez is far better than Mozgov was then, and at least as good now, so edge Lopez
      Zinger has way more upside (and trade value) than Gallinari did back then, but probably won’t be as good as a rookie as Gallo was then
      Calderon is of similar value to Felton, but less young and healthy, so give Felton the edge
      Afflalo is better in a more sustained way now than Fields was then. Fields fell apart towards the end of that year and never recovered. Edge: Afflalo.
      Grant should be at least as good as Douglas, even as a rookie. Call it a wash for now.
      O’Quinn is similar to Turiaf, with much more upside
      Galloway is a better two-way player than Mason was and has more upside.
      Seraphin is better than Randolph
      Williams vs. Williams is a wash, although Extra E had it going that year

      I think that team overachieved due to several factors:
      1. D’Antoni was determined to win some games after enduring multiple horrific seasons, so he ran Amare and Felton into the ground. Amare averaged 40 MPG and Felton averaged 41 MPG for the month of December!! Amare was never the same after that, and Felton was breaking down prior to the trade. After that crazy win streak, they went 12-17 heading into the trade.
      2. Fields, Douglas and Extra E played at a very high level for that stretch. For example, Shawne shot 48% from 3 before the all-star break!! That wasn’t sustainable, and all of those guys have been fringe rotation players or worse since.

      So if the trade wasn’t made, they were likely around a 35-win team with a washed-up Amare, a deeply flawed starting PG in Felton, and the soon-to-be-out-of-NBA rotations Williams, Fields and Douglas.

    11. Yeah, he’s not a great quote.

      I also think he took lessons on how to relate to fans from Jim Dolan. I couldn’t find it, but didn’t he completely rank out someone who posts here? Prez? It reminded me of JD’s “you must be an alcoholic” rant. Then yesterday’s FOH. Forum participation is not his strong suit.

      He comes off fine in live interviews when the questions are good and when he has to mind his manners. I still like his game and think he can blend in but, honestly, can you blame anyone for negative “conjecture” about this guy?

    12. I’ve long said, just ignore Melo’s statements. For all his great basketball skills, he doesn’t have very good speaking skills. You’re never going to get anything worthwhile listening to him, so for our benefit (and his, really) it is best to just ignore everything he says.

    13. As to this year’s team, I think predicting wins and losses is a total crap shoot, but I doubt that they surpass 35 wins. But they are one or two Fields/Douglas/Williams-like performances from rooks and fringe players away from being better than that team right now, and have way more upside than that team ever did.

      More importantly, they have an equivalent to a first round pick next year in Hernangomez, and all of their first-rounders after that.

    14. I think that team overachieved due to several factors:

      They were beating their projections, but just barely. Simply put, they projected better than this year’s team, and that has nothing to do with what they did during the season. So if the question is “Which team projected better in the ‘now,’ the 2010-11 team or the 2015-16 team?” the answer is the 2010-11 team. It’s not even that they projected great. They just projected better than this team. Hopefully this team will beat their projections, as well. Zinger is my great hope. :)

    15. None of this, by the way, is a knock on this year’s team. I don’t have a huge problem with how they’re set up. Obviously, I do have some problems with how they’re set up, mostly based around “Short-term vs. long-term” thinking (I don’t think they ever should have signed a 29-year-old Melo to a max deal when they were unlikely to be true contenders until, what, year four of the deal? And I don’t think they should have been trying to win games at the end of last year. And I think they should be looking more long term with some of the salary cap space rather than spending it on short term investments like Afflalo and Williams) but I really like Zinger, RoLo and O’Quinn and Grant is interesting (and for THJ? That’s just amazing). So I’m fine with the current team. I’m not trying to draw comparisons to the 2010-11 team. I’m fine with it as it is. But if you’re going to draw comparisons, I think the 2010-11 team was set up better. It was just fucked over by Dolan.

    16. “1. Trade assets for one soon-to-be free agent (most likely Chris Paul)”
      A lot of people talk about how the Knicks could have/should have somehow acquired Chris Paul. I think that this is pretty much revisionist wishful thinking. I remember at the time thinking that the Chris Paul talk was not much more than a pipe dream. Plus, if they acquired Paul, that would have eaten up significant cap space.
      “Sign one max free agent (most likely Melo) ”
      Because of circumstances (i.e., Melo’s fear — shared by most people most people at the time, although it never really came to fruition — that the CBA was going to change dramatically resulting in his making much less money than if he signed an extension before the CBA changed), this was absolutely never going to happen. If the Knicks didn’t trade for him, Denver was going to trade him to the Nets. So, for better or worse, Melo would never have become a Knick.
      By the way, I agree that, on paper, this year’s roster looks much better than the pre-Melo Knicks roster.

    17. Paul was traded for Eric Gordon and a draft pick (Chris Kaman and Al-Farouq Aminu were included, as well, but it was pretty clearly Gordon and the pick that were the centerpieces of the deal). He did not end up going for a lot at all, although obviously Aminu turned out to be a good player.

    18. By those criteria, you are correct. But there is lots of uncertainty built into those projections for this year. Melo and Calderon coming off injury-plagued years, two rookies expected to play rotation minutes, and last year’s 17 wins are all factored in. But in my opinion, this team has more potential to overachieve in a sustainable way than that one did. For example, if Galloway and/or Grant can play well enough to take significant minutes away from Calderon, this team could put some very good defensive units on the floor without killing the offense, e.g. two of Lopez/O’Quinn/Porzingis with Melo-Afflalo-Galloway/Grant.

    19. This team has more upside, ESPECIALLY because of the cap situation, Brian. Lots of room to do something next offseason…if there is anyone useful to do it with. And in general our roster is stronger than what we had that year, projections be damned. I mean, I’m sure that 35 wins is a fair over/under, and that team would likely have won more games, but I really feel that despite that, we have a better base now.

      Either way, this team won’t rebound for shit, and that’s why even if the Zinger plays meaningful (good) minutes and Jerian is the solid starter Clyde believes him to be, we still aren’t getting out of the 30s in terms of wins.

    20. Cap room was more valuable when no one else had it. Almost everyone has max cap room next year, except for the respective defending Conference champions from the East and West.

    21. Rebounding could be an issue for this team, but maybe not a huge one. It has been suggested that RoLo makes others better on the defensive boards (e.g. Aldridge) because he boxes out so well, and he’s actually a very good offensive rebounder. Melo is a decent rebounder. O’Quinn is a decent rebounder. Galloway and Grant should be scrappy. Maybe Zinger learns to use his length to tap the ball out like Chandler, making up for his inablilty to establish/hold position.

      But yeah, rebounding and consistent scoring (especially w/ Melo on the bench) will likely be negatives for this team.

    22. Grant was astonishingly bad on the glass in college for someone with his size. I’m hoping that was some weird system thing, but I wouldn’t bank on him being scrappy

    23. I think the frontcourt rebounding will sort itself out with people in new roles, like Lopez stepping up now that he will need to be a key rebounder. The backcourt rebounding likely won’t be great, but that’s less of an issue. The scoring definitely is a bit of an issue, since Afflalo or Calderon look to be the #2 scorer on the team at the moment.

    24. First you can’t compare teams that way. The team <> the sum of the individual parts. Also you forgot Wilson Chandler, who is (short term) better than any G/F on this team. Third:

      So if the trade wasn’t made, they were likely around a 35-win team with a washed-up Amare, a deeply flawed starting PG in Felton, and the soon-to-be-out-of-NBA rotations Williams, Fields and Douglas.

      That’s your opinion. In reality, the Knicks were 2 games over .500 when they made the trade. So let’s use that as the barometer. Game 56, is this team going to be over .500?

      Probably not. So you can’t say that team is better short term. They may have more potential, but then again a lot can happen between now and then. Porzingis could flame out, Melo’s knee could go all Allan Houston, they can replace Phil Jackson …

    25. @ 5

      ZMan. I agree that I think we’re in a better spot than we were when we signed Amare BUT you did forget to include Wilson Chandler on your list and he was a pretty great young player that we had to give up to get Melo.

    26. I don’t think there is much value in contrasting the 2010 team to this current team. The only thing they have in common is that both teams had big plans to rebuild via free agency, both teams struck out on the players they most wanted, and both teams reacted to being spurned by assembling a diverse array of 2nd/3rd tier players. Both teams are younger than their previous incarnations, and the players all seem fun and rootable. But that doesn’t have much to do with whether the 2015-16 team will make the playoffs, play .500 ball, or even be better than last years team going forward.

    27. @ 30. They signed Amare and Felton. Pretty much everyone else they all ready had. They did the D Lee trade for Randolph, Turiaf and Azubuike…but Turiaf was the only one who really did anything for us (great example of how a trade can look so good at the time bc of potential but end up being a bust).

    28. Well, the trade was only an afterthought; we weren’t signing Lee in any case.

      Mike and swift, Chandler definitely was a good player that I left out initially, but even with him the comparison is pretty interesting. I still take this team situation over that one every day and twice on Sundays for the upside alone, but for now, “present” value is at best a wash mainly due to that team being more experienced.

      On the other issue (Walsh vs. Jackson), my two points were that 1. if you look at all of Walsh’s moves before the Melo trade, there are also some questionable moves mixed in, but overall he accomplished his goal of freeing up cap space, and Jax has essentially done the same thing; and 2. there is less likelihood that Jax squanders the opportunity like Walsh did, in particular due to Dolan’s meddling.

      Coaching is an interesting comparison. What’s better, D’Antoni’s self-richeousness with its doghouse and burning out of starters, or Fisher’s inexperience and connection to the outdated aspects of the triangle? Tough call at this point, but I was never a big D’Antoni fan.

    29. Actually, I don’t think missing out on Aldridge, Jordan or Monroe compares to missing out on LeBron.

    30. Mike is right, it’s less about comparing individual parts as it is attempting to compare the synergies and lack thereof of the two rosters, as Dean Oliver always talks about.

      That 2010 team overachieved, perhaps a bit, because the roster meshed very well with MDA’s system prior to the trade.

      Obviously Grant and Zinger are unknown, but I’m in the crowd that thinks Zinger can be a good player on both ends next year. He attacks close-outs, takes and shows contact.

      That 2010 Knicks team finished 7th in offensive efficiency, and was 1st after the Melo trade.
      That’s probably not happening next year, but they should be considerably better defensively with a legitimate rim protector: http://nyloncalculus.com/stats/rim-protection/

      Lopez finished second in points saved at the rim per game two years ago, and 11th last year, well ahead of Tyson Chandler, who was actually a worse rim protector than Enes Kanter, Jared Sullinger, tyler Hansborough and Amar’e Stoudemire in his last year with NY (and presumably the year prior, as well).

    31. How is ” I didnt say none of that shit” a riddle?

      I love that answer coming from Melo actually. To me, it shows that he’s tired of the crap. In no way, am I insinuating that Melo isn’t already motivated or hasn’t had a chip on his shoulder, but it sounds to me like that chip may have gotten bigger. He’s being criticized like never before. Poor season, bad fit in the triangle, signed for the money, age as it relates to his injury, dissatisfaction with co-workers…this may not be a bad thing. If he’s healthy, and with all the crap pecking at him, he just might be pissed enough to put up 13-14 numbers. I hope so at least.

    32. We can hope O’Quinn turns out better on the court than Turiaf (a serviceable role player asked to do way too much that year), but the new guy has a long way to go in terms of his beard game and his incredulous reactions from the bench.

      Ha! Indeed

    33. I didnt say none of that shit

      So he did say some of that shit? That is a somewhat riddle-like statement. Ya gotta give it to Z-Man there. He of course, meant that he didn’t say any of that shit.

      Still, it took him this long and now he’s all dismissive. Sort of passive aggressive if you ask me. I hope he isn’t an asshole to his teammates. This shit worries me.

    34. I’ll assume he’s a good teammate because I’ve never heard the opposite (except maybe Jeremy Lin?).

      I’ll also not pay too close attention to his quotes, Brian. It’s just that we finally got some today and there’s a bit to chew on.

      Happy that his knee’s right and that he worked out with KP. Every day’s a chance for a fresh start. GONYK!

    35. Sorry, Dan, honestly, I have absolutely no problem with anyone trying to parse Melo’s words. Of course, what else are we supposed to do? The dude says something, how do you not react to it? What I mean more is that while it is certainly fair to address things he says, just keep in mind that the guy doesn’t really know how to express himself well at all, so I know that I personally look at what he says, acknowledge it and then toss it aside. I don’t have any issue with others doing differently. I just sometimes suggest doing it the way that I do it as you might otherwise drive yourself nuts with Melo’s words, as they often don’t make any sense.

    36. For some reason I couldn’t edit my @40. but thanks for that link, ruru. Lopez should be very useful. I’m looking forward to seeing his effect on team defense and total rebounding. He and Porzingis should be outstanding defensively when they are on the court together.

    37. I’m just thankful we didn’t waste significant cap space on Chris Paul cause he’s a proven loser.

    38. Especially when he’s being heavily jinxed in the Knickerblogger comments section. ;)

    39. I would assume that if we had Monroe or Aldridge there would be a considerable debate around here about whether a guy like ROLO isn’t actually a better fit for this team.

      Pick #4 and B-List FA’s may save this team. We had to pick good players because name players didn’t fall to us or spurned us.

      I personally would have been very uncomfortable giving a max to someone who can’t break 40% on FT’s

      This off season, very strangely, may turn out to be a big win.

    40. Thanks for the nuance, Brian. I totally got that before you explained though so it’s all good. Certainly substituting “none” for “any” happens, for example and it’s overly picky for me to read anything into that. The only reason I parsed it at all was that it proved Z-Man’s point about him speaking in riddles.

      I think, the point I was getting to, and what you have discovered already, is that this guy is not going to give you much deep insight in verbal or written form.

      I hope two things. That he’s smart in a basketball sense. If not Magic Johnson smart than at least Mark Aguirre smart. And that he’s a good teammate and doesn’t say FOH to his teammates in practice. Anything he says that indicates any of that makes the testimony more compelling.

    41. Aren’t you Rolophiles glossing over the fact that he doesn’t do anything on offense but get floor clogging garbage dunks?

    42. That’s your opinion. In reality, the Knicks were 2 games over .500 when they made the trade. So let’s use that as the barometer. Game 56, is this team going to be over .500?

      They were 2 games over .500 at the time of the trade, but they well above that before the trade rumors started dominating the headlines and pretty much everyone on the team except Amare was rumored to be part of the deal. There’s no question in my mind that the trade rumors had a negative impact on several players on that team. They had amazing chemistry before all that nonsense started.

    43. I don’t know if this is blaspheming here, but i actually view Melo’s contract as an asset. I’m not a capologist so perhaps i’m wrong, but i think he’s got a set number..5 years/$125MM and is not based on a % of the cap. So if thats true, under the new cap next year, his contract is no longer a “max” deal. Further, after next season, the deal is only 3 years in length. I don’t know if this was part of Phil’s strategy, but i hope it was. We were a team that was low on assets and i think he’s a good-to-very-good player and there’s no reason we should lose him for nothing. Plus, with the contract the way i described it above, is very movable. To me, it’s win-win…1) he plays well and contributes to the team playing well, 2) he plays well and we suck, we mutually agree to part ways and get something of value for a win-now team thats desperate for scoring and go full rebuild. I wont deal with a 3rd scenario where his knee is cottage cheese :)

    44. Ruru, I agree. Great link. DRed, the article was about Rolo’s defense so I guess the focus should stay there. Lopez has said that he hasn’t shown his offensive game yet. Maybe he has one. That’ll be interesting to see.

      I like Z-Man’s man-for-man evaluation and yes, missing Chandler does impact it. Still, comparing this team to the abortion that last year was is stupid. This is not the same team except for the letters on the front of the jersey. The two returning starters were hurt last year and I retain hope.

      But the arguments about what the team lacks are valid: We need a second scoring option and we need rebounding help. Maybe we have them, but haven’t seen it yet. Camp is still a month away

    45. Isola says we’re gonna hire a Spurs D League assistant to coach the Westies. Jowles is gonna love this

    46. There’s no question in my mind that the trade rumors had a negative impact on several players on that team. They had amazing chemistry before all that nonsense started.

      Agree.

      On December 14th, 2010 the Knicks were 16-9 and had won 8 games in a row. That’s the day that Carmelo Anthony announced that he would not accept Denver’s $65,000,000 extension, amping up the Melo trade rumors. That same day it was reported that Melo would only sign a long-term contract extension with the New York Knicks and Melo, himself, said that the Nuggets wouldn’t trade him to a place he didn’t want to be.

      http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nba/news/story?id=5912307

      The winning streak ended the next day, and the rest of the season was, from then on, all about Carmelo Anthony.

    47. Melo is a magician.

      1)He trades himself
      2)He makes other players on other teams worse just by speaking
      3)He controls all I tell ya

    48. Melo is a magician.

      I’m sure he has a hat for that.

      I kid I kid, I’m here all week….

    49. The streak didnt end because they faced Boston and Miami right after. It was Melo. In Denver.

    50. “I’m sure he has a hat for that.

      I kid I kid, I’m here all week….”

      He probably has a hat for every activity.

      Trade hat, Coach Fire hat, Make Landry Fields suck hat….etc

    51. I’m curious why more people don’t make the comparison between Porzingis and Arvydas Sabonis?

      In reading this reflection on Sabonis, I find it hard not to make connections. http://grantland.com/features/arvydas-sabonis-long-strange-trip/

      Aside from the 7’3″ size and euro origins, the article talks of how Sabonis started as a perimeter finesse player, playing like a small forward. As he aged, put on weight, and battled injuries, he became a post player. He was dominant as both.

      To me, Sabonis was one of the greatest basketball players to ever live. We only got to see him in his mid-30’s, and even then he was the most unique big man I’ve seen– able to post up, shoot 3s, and pass like a guard.

      This article talks of “what might have been” with Sabonis (if he’d come to the NBA ten years earlier, stayed healthy, etc). With Porzingis only 19 years old, could he be the answer to “what might have been”?

    52. Sabonis had a bigger frame than Bazingus. I haven’t examined their respective rumps, but I expect Sabonis packed more in the trunk. That’s speculative, though

    53. The streak didnt end because they faced Boston and Miami right after.

      And then they lost to 8-19 Cleveland the next game.

      Point is, they went from winning games (against both good teams and bad teams, both at home and on the road) to losing games (to both good teams and bad teams, both at home and on the road). They played under .500 ball the rest of the way. It coincided to the day with the Melo drama. I think that there is evidence that Stratomatic is correct in his belief.

    54. Man, I’m sure sad we traded away players who were so thin skinned they couldn’t handle trade rumors.

      Wilson Chandler – where is he now?
      Felton – got him back. Sucked.
      Gallinari – never lived up to his potential. Not bad but nothing to cry over.
      Fields – HAHAHAHA!
      Anthony Randolph – …..
      Mozgov – OK, I’ll give you that one. Dolan got involved and threw him in last minute for no reason and that sucks.
      1st round pick – Bummer sure.

      Dolan and Donnie could have, you know, negotiated better and probably held on to Mozgov. That’s on them, not Melo.

      I swear. Its like some of you honestly think Amare wasn’t going to break down and that squad was going to win a championship if it wasn’t for Melo.

    55. I’m curious why more people don’t make the comparison between Porzingis and Arvydas Sabonis?

      There are similarities but the 19 yr old Sabonis was more muscular in his arms and upper body than Zinger, but not by a great amount.

      Sabonis at that point was primarily a low post player who had stretch 4 range and point guard passing skillz.

      Zinger reminds me more of HOF linebacker Ted “mad stork” Hendricks who was a true freak for a linebacker at 6-7 and 220 lbs

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKO0vtYGbNs

    56. @Donnie.

      You have gotta be better than this. Any number of things could play a part in why a team plays the way it does. For you to single one thing out and just be concrete with it is weak. I agree that trade rumors bother players but you cant let it affect your play. That team was a siv on defense. Maybe thats a reason, Ray Felton played like a near all star for 20+ games to start the season, Amare started on a tear .

      all of these things count, not just the man in the funny hats.

    57. @63 – Today’s rookies are always hall of famers and yesterdays are always overrated. Today Porzingis > Gallinari and Galloway > Fields and Grant > Felton. Of course 5 years from now that statement could be ludicrous.

      Oh and Wilson Chandler started for Denver last year.

    58. Grant > Felton. Of course 5 years from now that statement could be ludicrous.

      Um….I doubt it. At the very least I’m hoping he doesn’t threaten his fiancee with an unlicensed firearm.

      Bar is low, is my point.

    59. The Amar’e/Gallo/Fields/TDDWTDD/Wilson Chandler teams, in retrospect, did not really have great upside even before the Melo trade, mainly because of the hideous, awful albatross known as Amar’e Stoudemire’s max contract. The signing of Amar’e was a hastily conceived strategy to lure LeBron James, which failed. It was game, set, match on the Amar’e Knicks the moment “The Decision” came down. So comparing the upside of this team to the upside of that team– which really did not have much upside– seems like kind of a futile exercise to me.

    60. @Donnie You have gotta be better than this. Any number of things could play a part in why a team plays the way it does. For you to single one thing out and just be concrete with it is weak.

      I’m not saying trade rumors were the only thing that caused a winning team to start losing (just like facing Boston and Miami wasn’t the only thing thing that ended that winning streak). I’m saying that Stratomatic stated an opinion and then I presented evidence to support his opinion. You don’t agree with it, which is fine. But I wouldn’t call my methodology “weak”, (or even expect better from me, given my history of Carmelo-hating :)

      Point is, I remember that season well. The trade rumors dominated everything. (They didn’t call it the Melo-Drama for nothing).

    61. The Amar’e/Gallo/Fields/TDDWTDD/Wilson Chandler teams, in retrospect, did not really have great upside even before the Melo trade, mainly because of the hideous, awful albatross known as Amar’e Stoudemire’s max contract. The signing of Amar’e was a hastily conceived strategy to lure LeBron James, which failed. It was game, set, match on the Amar’e Knicks the moment “The Decision” came down. So comparing the upside of this team to the upside of that team– which really did not have much upside– seems like kind of a futile exercise to me.

      Thread’s done.

    62. I don’t know. I think some people are getting too much on Melo’s back about his recent comments. I would be inclined to side with Melo on this one. Yeah sure he isn’t the most eloquent athlete around, but we are aren’t paying him to be a Rhodes Scholar. Just because he doesn’t communicate with finesse doesn’t make his comments any less true than if they were uttered by a JFK or Dr. King. So far we have actually had Melo come out and say that whilst he was disappointed with not getting a big fish (which isn’t too controversial of a thing) he was happy with who we brought in, he likes KP and that he took offence to putting words in his mouth. That has also been backed up by KP saying Melo has been great to himself and Grant so far. Compare that to the unverified ‘sources’ that have said Melo is unhappy and shitty at everyone. Granted you can take a lot of things an athlete says with a grain of salt, but until we start getting confirmation of these sources and people willing to go on the record, I am sticking with Melo on this one.

    63. Jowles and others were totally right back then. (I might have vomicked a bit writing that.)

      That said, it was a magical delusion there for a while. Amare was playing like an MVP, just like he finished off the year before in PHX, an absolute monster. Felton was playing like a top-10 PG. Fields was being dubbed Havlicek 2.0. Extra E was raining 3’s from all angles. Gallo was looking like a young future star. Chandler was getting better. Mozgov looked promising. TDDWTDD was looking like a competent backup. 7SOL was working. That run of 13 wins in 14 games was maybe the most exciting stretch of regular season basketball of all, certainly since the Ewing trade. We’ll always have Linsanity, and we’ll always have that stretch of games.

      Amar’e had declared that the Knicks were back. And for a short while, they were.

    64. The schedule just came out. the first 25 games are not looking pretty for us. 5-20 is not completely out of the question. 10-15 wouldn’t be horrible.

    65. No Melo trade.

      Amnesty Amare post decision

      Trade pupu platter to NBA owned Hornets for CP3.

      Repeated good regular seasons followed by early playoff exits because CP3 is not a winner.

    66. @56

      You can live in denial if you want, but during that period I was betting on Knicks games heavily. As soon as the Melo to NY rumors started and the press started naming players, several Knicks went into a funk and started performing below their norms.

      Is that Melo’s fault?

      No.

      They should have been professional enough to play through the rumors. But that was a young team of players that was very happy to be in NY playing D’Antoni’s style. This was the not the first time (and it won’t be the last) that a player or group of players started to underperform when they were rumored to be on the block.

      The trade rumors disrupted the chemistry of that team and ultimately the trade itself disrupted the style of play that some of remaining players needed to perform to their potential.

      Was that team going to win a championship? Obviously not. Several moves would have been required including doing something smart with Eddy Curry’s cap space. But that team was better before Melo than after the trade and still had a workable core (especially if Amare was amnestied).

    67. Was that team going to win a championship? Obviously not. Several moves would have been required including doing something smart with Eddy Curry’s cap space. But that team was better before Melo than after the trade and still had a workable core (especially if Amare was amnestied).

      The major reason we are positioned better now than back then is that we will have a ton more cap space to work with next year and we don’t have Amare about to break down (though who knows, maybe Melo will break down this year). Of course, the space we have next year has nothing to do with the way the team is being managed now. It’s a league wide thing.

      We did have Curry coming off the books to work with back then. That might have helped.

      I am happy with where we are now, but hindsight is 20-20.

      Back then:

      1. We didn’t know Amare was 100% certain to break down any more than we know whether Melo is 100% to not.

      2. We didn’t know Gallo was going to have major knee surgery twice that would slow his development.

      3. We didn’t know that Fields was going to have major nerve damage that destroyed his shot and any ability to develop.

      That kind of stuff could happen to this Knicks team too. I hope it won’t, but you can’t compare a bunch of players that had terrible luck with a bunch of players that we haven’t had a chance to see develop.

    68. The Amar’e/Gallo/Fields/TDDWTDD/Wilson Chandler teams, in retrospect, did not really have great upside even before the Melo trade, mainly because of the hideous, awful albatross known as Amar’e Stoudemire’s max contract. The signing of Amar’e was a hastily conceived strategy to lure LeBron James, which failed. It was game, set, match on the Amar’e Knicks the moment “The Decision” came down. So comparing the upside of this team to the upside of that team– which really did not have much upside– seems like kind of a futile exercise to me.

      This is partly true. The problem is that Amar’e was totally tradeable for the first 18 months of his contract. If the Knicks were a team that focused on winning titles, they would have looked past the gleam of Amar’e’s early play and saw that the future wasn’t too much to get excited about.

      The real killer that prevented the Knicks from retreating back to rebuild mode was the Jared Jeffries trade. Rookie Jordan Hill, 2011 first round swap rights (top 1 protected), and their 2012 pick (top 5 protected). That was a suicidal gamble, akin to selling your home to put all the money on a penny stock (getting Lebron), which big picture, with the Eddy Curry albatross still clogging the cap, was at best a long shot.

    69. The schedule just came out. the first 25 games are not looking pretty for us. 5-20 is not completely out of the question. 10-15 wouldn’t be horrible.

      Agreed. I think 5-20 is a bit of a stretch (in a bad way), but I agree that in general it is a very tough first 25 games. I’d be pumped with 10-15.

    70. The schedule just came out. the first 25 games are not looking pretty for us. 5-20 is not completely out of the question. 10-15 wouldn’t be horrible.

      Really? I was thinking the first 82 games looked a bit scary.

    71. Look, we’re probably going to be bad next year. The schedule doesn’t really matter, unless a shitty start makes a melodeal more likely.

    72. If I recall correctly the only winning team they beat during that 13 wins out of 14 stretch was Denver at MSG with Gallo drawing a charge on Melo late in the game sealing the win.

    73. BBA, true, I remember listening to that Denver game in the car with my son and going nuts! But then we lost a nail-biter to the Celts, were tied at the half with the Heat before losing, lost in overtime to the Cavs, then beat the Thunder and the Bulls, then soon after beat the Pacers and Spurs.

      Just looking at the schedule then, and going over the schedule now, it seems that there were many more weak teams back then. I mean, I look at the schedule now and there are only a few cream puff teams: Sixers, Suns, maybe the Nets, maybe the Lakers, and that’s about it. Teams like the TWolves, Pistons, Hornets, Kings and Magic may not make the playoffs, but are all dangerous. It’s like the league now has about 7 or 8 elite teams, then a whole bunch of teams (like 18) with solid rotations who can make the playoffs if everything goes well, and 4-5 bottom dwellers. More parity than I can remember, except in the EC playoff picture.

    74. @ 86 I saw your name and icon come up on the RAB game thread and it made me happy. Then I looked back up at the game and was sad again.

    75. Ive been visiting RAB as my main Yankees site since 2008. Actually it was around the same time I found this site. RAB and Knickerblogger have been my favorite blog sites ever since, Im nothing if not loyal lol.

    76. AL, you should check out rlyw.net sometime. SG, the guy who runs it, is the best amatuer baseball analyst I’ve ever come across. He does phenomenal work

    77. @89 When I first found RAB I used to comment all the time, the game threads from 2008-2010 were classics. Much different crowd now yet they still get over 1000 comments per game thread which is pretty amazing. Best part about this site is the community and the many commenters who have been around forever. It really is a great community to be a part of especially for us fans who dont live in NY.

    78. Ive been to Replacement Level Yankees before, didnt realize you and Brian participated there!! I used to read NoMass (although they were pretty out there at times but they were funny) and currently I love Chad Jennings lohud blog stuff, to me he is the best Yankee beat writer when it comes to stuff like that.

      In regards to the Knicks I also read Poasting and Toasting cause Seth is really great. But in terms of commenting I only comment here and at RAB.

    79. Yeah, postingandtoasting is well worth a read. Seth is a funny dude, I appreciate their positivity, and they have some good posters (including some former knickbloggers), but the analysis leaves something to be desired. At least for my money-fandom comes in many flavors

    80. OK, here’s a way to get to 5-5 after 10 games: beat the Bucks once, Wiz, Hawks, Lakers and Hornets. None of those teams are that good.

    81. I hope you painted us in a good light in your thesis

      Not in the thesis but I did talk in class about how this site compares favorably to many online grad school forums. Good research, excellent writing, and passionate discussion. All self motivated without obsequious grade grubbing. You never get hundreds of posts for school either. And it’s harder to stand out here. You really have to earn it to get recognized (or poke someone pretty hard). All in all a nice proving ground and it makes me feel better for thinking this much about the stupid Knicks. Knicks are stupid. KB is not. Mike Kurylo for GM.

    82. @98 I go to P&T for positive vibes and Seth’s humor, but most importantly, dank Knicks memes

    83. AL, you should check out rlyw.net sometime. SG, the guy who runs it, is the best amatuer baseball analyst I’ve ever come across. He does phenomenal work

      SG is, in fact, amazing. SG and Mike, I sure know how to pick sites to write for – sites where the main guy can write eloquently about stats because I sure can’t. :)

    Comments are closed.