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Knicks Morning News (2025.01.15)

NBA Trade Rumors: New York Knicks set sights on 6-foot-10 European center LeBron James was willing to take pay cut for – Sportskeeda
01/15/2025 05:37:00

“A lot of teams were trying to use that brutal play” – MJ highlighted the the Knicks as the team who tried to copy the Bad Boys Pistons the most – Basketball Network
01/15/2025 03:15:00

Knicks hoping Karl-Anthony Towns will be ready to go vs. 76ers after thumb scare – New York Post
01/15/2025 03:39:00

Herd Drops to Knicks – OurSports Central
01/15/2025 03:11:16

New York Knicks insider suggests there may be growing locker-room issue with a top star – Sportsnaut
01/15/2025 02:44:01

Jalen Brunson and New York Knicks Sound Off On Brutal Schedule Quirk – Athlon Sports
01/15/2025 01:58:11

35 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.01.15)”

Good morning, all.

Interesting test of Nurse’s vs. Thib’s load management philosophies tonight. Nurse ( claiming injuries) did not play Maxey, George or Caleb Martin and took the L against OKC. We all know Thib’s every night is 7th game approach. According to the Post, KAT has a sprained thumb. My guess is he’ll play.

But will Embiid play? That’s a bigger question.

Hukporti: 3-4 for 9 pts, 6 rebs, 1 stl, 3 blks in 25min

Warren: 8-20 for 26pts, 5rebs, 0asts, 4TOs, 3stls, 2blks in 38min

Toppin: 11-21, 4-9 from 3 for 38pts, 5rebs, 5asts, 1 blk in 36min

Kolek: 4-14 & 1-4 from 3 for 15pts, 9asts, 9rebs, 3stls, 1blk, 5TOs in 39min

Hukporti: 3-4 for 9 pts, 6 rebs, 1 stl, 3 blks in 25min

Warren: 8-20 for 26pts, 5rebs, 0asts, 4TOs, 3stls, 2blks in 38min

Toppin: 11-21, 4-9 from 3 for 38pts, 5rebs, 5asts, 1 blk in 36min

Kolek: 4-14 & 1-4 from 3 for 15pts, 9asts, 9rebs, 3stls, 1blk, 5TOs in 39min

Our starters are way better. Btw. what did Dadiet do?

Certainly we are devoid of any talent that we can give 12 minutes per game to (sarcasm alert).

So did Nick Nurse sit everyone figuring they’re never gonna beat OKC anyway and save them for tonight against us?

Don’t think they’re a team that can afford to just punt games at this point.

Our starters are way better. Btw. what did Dadiet do?

Sat with a toe injury

So did Nick Nurse sit everyone figuring they’re never gonna beat OKC anyway and save them for tonight against us?

Don’t think they’re a team that can afford to just punt games at this point.

Philly needs to decide whether they’re good or they’re so bad that they can keep their lotto pick rather than give it to OKC.

Anyone remember the time during the regular season that Pat Riley benched John Starks and a couple other starters to smack some sense into them? (I’m not talking about Game 7 when he DIDN’T bench Starks)

Edit: Here it is

https://www.nytimes.com/1994/03/06/sports/pro-basketball-bonner-handles-starting-in-stride.html

“The Knicks (38-19), who visit the Detroit Pistons tomorrow, have won two straight games since Pat Riley changed three-fifths of the starting lineup, replacing Charles Smith, Greg Anthony and John Starks with Bonner, Derek Harper and Hubert Davis.”

Interesting test of Nurse’s vs. Thib’s load management philosophies tonight.

I wonder how much of it is Nurse and how much of it is Morey. Nurse did coach Kawhi for his load management season, but that was part of the price of getting Kawhi, other than that he’s tended to play guys heavy minutes. Maybe Embiid getting fucked up last year made him change his approach

Today is the 24 year anniversary of Camby taking a swing at Danny Ferry but instead hitting JVG.

Starting five of players to wear both jerseys (minimum 50 games with each franchise):

G — Maurice Cheeks
G — Henry Bibby
F — Clarence Weatherspoon
F — Johnny Green
C — Nerlens Noel

This feels like a team I actually rooted for.
Better or worse than now?

“The Knicks (38-19), who visit the Detroit Pistons tomorrow, have won two straight games since Pat Riley changed three-fifths of the starting lineup, replacing Charles Smith, Greg Anthony and John Starks with Bonner, Derek Harper and Hubert Davis.”

They went on to win 13 more straight after that anti-staleness injection — of much the same vein as the one that, 30 years later, propelled the “January Knicks.”

Starks and Smith got hurt shortly after.

Starting five of players to wear both jerseys (minimum 50 games with each franchise):

G — Maurice Cheeks
G — Henry Bibby
F — Clarence Weatherspoon
F — Johnny Green
C — Nerlens Noel

This feels like a team I actually rooted for.
Better or worse than now?

And you can upgrade Nerlens to Dikembe, friend! But alas, Keith Van Horn played only 47 for the Knicks.

They went on to win 13 more straight after that anti-staleness injection — of much the same vein as the one that, 30 years later, propelled the “January Knicks.”

Ah, thanks for that addition. Who are the most stale Knicks today? I can’t really blame anyone.

Damn, Onyeka Okongwu!!! 22 points and 21 rebounds (10 offensive) on 10-of-14 shooting in 28 minutes last night. I’m pretty sure I don’t care that he can’t/won’t shoot 3s.

Clingan has averaged 8 points and 12 rebounds on 9-of-11 shooting in 24 minutes per game over his last three.

I always liked Okongwu. He seems like a Paul Millsap type in the making. Late breaking etc

Re: Onyeka Okongwu, Kolek, Hukporti and other C and D level players.

We all know that overall delta between bench players is imaterial.

While individual players are different from one another, overall bench players are very similar when adding cognative ability, skills, talent, athleticism, motor, attitude, etc.

If you give them enough playing time to clear the noise, the data will show that their value over replacement is insignificant.

So you hire the players whose strengths are enhanced by the style or system you are runing and who complement other players by filling a specific team need.

They only play between 6-8 minutes a half against mostly other C and D level players and you build this unit up over a long season so that it becomes better than the sum of its parts and overachieves.

Starters are rested with lower injury risk but they’re also slighlty upset because their per game stats suffer and the team loses 2-4 games more during a long season.

That is not how I think about bench players at all. They do matter. And some are definitely better than others.

Replacement level is pretty low also. You want the main part of the bench to well exceed that level.

Okongwu is about as elite a bench big as you will find

Okongwu is about as elite a bench big as you will find

Agree. But my point is that the difference between our bench players and other NBA mid & lottery teams is marginal. Most bench players that receive playing time in the NBA are interchangable and indistiguishable from one another. They’re either young (recently drafted), veteran under 32 flawed and incosistent players or 33+ past their athletic primes.

Director, you have a point, but I think Owen does, too. There are many (some?) bench players who also excel at particular things (think Pritchard, Alvarado, Mitch) but are limited at other things (playmaking, size, shooting, etc.).

Maybe that makes benches kind of equivalent from some grand summary mathematical perspective, but I think individual skill sets matter, especially in terms of team structure and skill sets.

The idea of NBA benches being fungible is no less ridiculous than the idea of starters being fungible. Just as WAS’ starters are nowhere near ours, our bench is nowhere near the benches of CLE, BOS, or OKC in quality.

Thibs isn’t running our starters into the ground for no reason. Our bench is legitimately terrible. OKC has about 7 bench players better than our sixth man.

@BobbyMarks42

Trade restrictions have been lifted for the below 18 players.

96% of the league is now trade eligible.

Brooklyn: Nicolas Claxton

Charlotte: Miles Bridges

Chicago: Patrick Williams

Indiana: Obi Toppin

LA Lakers: Max Christie

Memphis: Scotty Pippen Jr.

Miami: Haywood Highsmith

New York: OG Anunoby and Precious Achiuwa

Orlando: Goga Bitadze

OKC: Aaron Wiggins and Isaiah Joe

Philadelphia: KJ Martin and Tyrese Maxey

Phoenix: Josh Okogie

Sacramento: Malik Monk

Toronto: Immanuel Quickley

Utah: Johnny Juzang

Okongwu would be a big upgrade for our bench. It’s why we aren’t getting him and why he signed a $60M+ extension in the off-season. If you want an ATL C, there’s Capela.

Clingan was the 7th overall pick in the most recent draft. We ain’t getting him for Precious Achiuwa and a 2nd.

I’m much more aligned with Owen’s way of thinking on this. The bench *does* matter. Quite a lot, actually.

My problem with Thibs this year is that he has refused to develop a full or even partial second unit, admittedly harder with P&P unavailable at the start. It’s been rotation players ad hoc, the eye test telling me it is pretty much equally divided between foul trouble and opponent match up, other than Deuce. This necessarily leads to 40+starter minutes. Not a recipe for getting better each day and peaking at the play-offs.

Pags, agree and disagree (jesus I’m wishy washy today…).

I think our bench is legitimately suspect, and certainly not equal to some others. But ‘suspect’ doesn’t definitively mean terrible. We actually don’t have a clue what we have in, for example, Huk and Kolek. We know they’re rookies who will definitely make rookie mistakes. But they both seem fairly talented and bring useful things to the table. Giving them run might legitimately improve our ‘bench’ measures, and it will almost certainly help them actually get better.

I do wonder how our bench compares to others (per 36 or %, since you can’t count actual numbers given our bench plays half as much as anyone else’s…).

Our bench is Miles McBride, Precious Achiuwa, Landry Shamet, and Cameron Payne, with Tyler Kolek also available.

Those are all NBA caliber bench players. Every single game we face opponents who routinely play bench players of that caliber or worse.

Embiid doesn’t play back-to-backs. If you’re gonna choose, might as well rest everyone and take on the Knicks.

“They only play between 6-8 minutes a half against mostly other C and D level players and you build this unit up over a long season so that it becomes better than the sum of its parts and overachieves.”

I mean, look at the minutes distribution for the Hawks last night in a game that was close throughout (Hawks won by five points, in the end):
Starters—
Risacher 17
Capela 20
Young 38
Krejci 35
Daniels 34

Bench—
Okongwu 28
Roddy 16
Bogdanovic 26
Mathews 27

Only nine players played, but the distribution was the way it was because there were bench players excelling and deserving to stay on the floor.

We can’t do that right now.

To be somewhat fair, the bench sustained two serious injuries right at the beginning of the season with the team capped out.

Even if nothing had gone wrong, it would’ve been a subpar bench, but at least Thibs would’ve given it more minutes and rested the starters a bit more.

Only nine players played, but the distribution was the way it was because there were bench players excelling and deserving to stay on the floor.

Cmon Doogie… when you have 3 starters on rookie contracts, you can afford to flesh out the bench a lot more, you know this.

Just as WAS’ starters are nowhere near ours, our bench is nowhere near the benches of CLE, BOS, or OKC in quality.

Those three teams are exceptions. here is what I said “my point is that the difference between our bench players and other NBA mid & lottery teams is marginal. ”

Also, starters quality variance is significantly higher between teams due to usage and they play 75% of the game which allows for this delta to manifest itself into points on the board.

All I’m saying is that, (sans Deuce) our 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th players are not going to be the difference in teams loosing more than 2-4 games if they play 12 minutes against 95% of the others teams 7th, 8th, 9th and 10th players.

Is Doogie under the impression that there’s a chance, like any chance at all, that the Blazers would trade Donovan Clingan, who they drafted 7th overall a few months ago? This is the guy who routinely calls other posters stupid?

Anyway, I’m not sure how one can make a blanket statement about the importance of bench players. There are team constructions in which they’re absolutely essential and their skillsets determine a lot–JR Smith led the 2012-2013 Knicks in minutes starting zero games!

There are team constructions in which they’re just innings eaters until the postseason, when they mostly fade into oblivion (though even the most top-heavy teams tend to still need a guy or two they trust in the playoffs).

Either model can work, to contend you just need to get the requisite amount of production on the court in a sustainable manner. Right now we’re not doing that, either because the roster is simply too top heavy or because Thibs won’t play the decent-ish bench guys we do have, depending on your perspective.

I lean slightly more towards the former, but still think Thibs should just bite the bullet, play our uncromulent bench, and live with the consequences. They wouldn’t be his fault, and the consequences of the 40 minutes x 82 games strategy could be a lot more dire.

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35 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.01.15)”

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