2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks @ A Team It’ll Be So Hard to Lose To

Big game today in Orlando. Can the Knicks seriously lose to these guys three times in a single season?

Seems hard to believe.

99 replies on “2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks @ A Team It’ll Be So Hard to Lose To”

If you want to avoid sadness, don’t do what I just did and compare Cole Anthony’s numbers to RJ Barrett’s

Izzy starting for the enemy.

Looks like he just came in from months in the woods…

Mitch the star of the game so far, low bar of course.

Point Barrett not going well.

Many more top four results on the lottery simulator now that the Knicks are tied for 10th!

Just so people know, if you try to get the anti viral meds via 212-covid19 they require a positive test first. I’m not sure how you go about proving that since you are talking on the phone with them, but I’ll figure that out later.

I’m not feeling so great. So I guess I’ll get tested in the morning and then either talk to my own doctor or call them again if I get the dreaded positive.

Quickley’s shooting form is kinda different with every attempt but hard to bash it I guess

Mitch with 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, and a steal in 7 minutes.

Go ahead, calculate that per 36… (of course he’s also 0-2…).

Is RJ playing like “extend him RJ” or “send him to the G league RJ”?

Without Randle we don’t have the tank horses to compete with the Magic

I’ve been flipping to Better Call Saul reruns during this dreadful game, forgot what a truly great show it is

Can’t wait for the season premiere April 18th!

It’s safe to say that no one will remember this game as an aesthetic masterpiece.

d-mar:
I’ve been flipping to Better Call Saul reruns during this dreadful game, forgot what a truly great show it is

Can’t wait for the season premiere April 18th!

Is anyone streaming Season 5?

I binged everything but the last season.

Man was I wrong on Mo Bamba. He is the gold standard for the term “low motor.”

Deeefense!!: Is anyone streaming Season 5?

I binged everything but the last season.

Season 5 is by far the best season. Enjoy!

Is Burks going to play summer league?

That might be a good opportunity for him to develop his elite PG skills.

Thibs is too much.

Up by 21 late in the 3rd. Maybe time to play the rookies for some extended run?

Nah…

Immanuel Quickley rebounds the fuck out of the ball.

Averaging 4.7 per 36. He has 6 so far today.

Barrett on the break with Obi free ahead of him and he takes it into the foul. He deserved the hacking.

Is Toppin going to be in the 3 point contest next year?

RJ had Toppin for the dunk. I think was a bit of an attempt to stat stuff for his PPG by RJ.

Up 27 very late in the third, just a few games left in a lost season. Maybe time to see the kids get some run?

Nah…

Owen:
I do kind of wonder. Is Obi better than RJ?

so far, yes. but Obi was still paying college ball when he was 21

Judging performance based on this game is ever so slightly more reliable than 3 on 3…

Suggs was one of my favorite players in the draft but he’s been atrocious this year

I would have liked to have seen Reddish show his stuff for these last few games.

Mitch a dunk away from his own double-double…

And so glad Burks is back in…

I know Z-Man will grumble about it not being a game to measure anything (oh wait, he did that already), but shout-out to the haters. Deuce with 8 points in 11 minutes.

Raven:
I know Z-Man will grumble about it not being a game to measure anything (oh wait, he did that already), but shout-out to the haters. Deuce with 8 points in 11 minutes.

lol love me some Deuce!

I would have liked to have seen Reddish show his stuff for these last few games.

Definitely.

Magic better hope that Jalen Suggs is just having a bad rookie year….

I won’t front, as soon as it was clear Masi didn’t want him (which was well before the draft), I was, like, “Is there something wrong with him that I’m missing?” That’s how much I trust Masai.

Orlando is so bad right now that I legit can’t blame them for winning this one.

I blame them for some other wins, but not this one!

If anyone wants to point to hypocrisy on Thibs’ part, one need look no further than RJ. He never gets pulled no matter how many times he makes a selfish decision with the ball.

Brian Cronin: I won’t front, as soon as it was clear Masi didn’t want him (which was well before the draft), I was, like, “Is there something wrong with him that I’m missing?” That’s how much I trust Masai.

True, but preferring Scottie Barnes to Jalen Suggs does not equal Jalen Suggs looking like a complete bust….maybe it’s just a first year thing, but damn, the Magic have to be bummed.

I’ve got to ask, does anyone think the Magic’s young core and/or future prospects is better than ours?

It’s not time to panic on Suggs. His numbers are god awful, but that has happened to a lot of rookie point guards who went on to be pretty good e.g. Fox. Also his numbers are pretty similar to RJ’s as a rookie, for whatever that’s worth. They definitely need to see a leap from him next year though.

Brian Cronin:
I won’t front, as soon as it was clear Masi didn’t want him (which was well before the draft), I was, like, “Is there something wrong with him that I’m missing?” That’s how much I trust Masai.

Watching the Raptors now, they’re a handful on defense and are gonna be an hellish playoff matchup for contenders. They’ve slid under the radar this year but will push 50 wins, have who I think should be the ROY, barely give any minutes to guys on the wrong side of 30, and don’t have anything resembling a bad contract (they have multiple contracts they could flip for assets whenever they wanted).

Just another day at the office for Masai.

Knick fan not in NJ:
I’ve got to ask, does anyone think the Magic’s young core and/or future prospects is better than ours?

By a lot. Wagner and WCJ alone would probably be our best two young players, and they’ve got plenty of other guys who are varying degrees of interesting like Suggs, Fultz, Isaac, Hampton, Anthony, and Okeke. Also, they’ll probably add a top-4 pick to the group.

thenoblefacehumper: It’s not time to panic on Suggs. His numbers are god awful, but that has happened to a lot of rookie point guards who went on to be pretty good e.g. Fox. Also his numbers are pretty similar to RJ’s as a rookie, for whatever that’s worth. They definitely need to see a leap from him next year though.

The difference is that RJ was bad in the ways you expected him to be bad. Not time to panic, but folks that thought he was a better prospect than Cade and Mobley are looking pretty foolish right now.

Z-man: The difference is that RJ was bad in the ways you expected him to be bad.

This sounds like a fake distinction. Suggs has filled up a decent box score, he’s just been woefully inefficient. That’s…exactly what rookie RJ did.

thenoblefacehumper: This sounds like a fake distinction. Suggs has filled up a decent box score, he’s just been woefully inefficient. That’s…exactly what rookie RJ did.

Suggs college eFG% .560, Suggs rookie eFG% .399 net drop .161
RJ college eFG% .506 RJ rookie eFG% .445. net drop .061

Z-man: Suggs college eFG% .560, Suggs rookie eFG% .399 net drop .161
RJ college eFG% .506 RJ rookie eFG% .445. net drop .061

…but their true shooting percentages were much closer, because Suggs gets to the line a lot and hits his free throws. Dunno why you’d omit that in a discussion about efficiency.

Owen:
Triple double for Poku

Poku = IQ?

Actually, one point in IQ’s favor is the ol’ 10-1 assist-to-turnover rate. It’s really quite impressive. Game after game, he’s like the only guy on the Knicks who doesn’t gift the other team a bunch of freebees.

(Poku was 12-6, which feels very Julius…)

Alcaraz was awesome today. I got a little nervous three games in but he handled his business

thenoblefacehumper: …but their true shooting percentages were much closer, because Suggs gets to the line a lot and hits his free throws. Dunno why you’d omit that in a discussion about efficiency.

One would expect that the most replicable statistic from college to NBA is FT% since it is exactly the same shot from the same distance with no defenders in the way. Both players stayed pretty close to their college numbers. Suggs shot .754 in college and .773 as a rookie. RJ shot .665 in college and .614 in the NBA. I guess your argument is that you shouldn’t be worried about Suggs shooting .441 from 2 (147pt drop) and .216 from 3 (121 pt drop) in NBA game action because he gets to the line quie a bit and shoots 77% from there.

I agree that RJ Barrett had a very mediocre rookie year, but Jalen Suggs’ has been a disaster. By BPM and VORP, he is the worst rookie getting rotation minutes in his entire draft class, yet lots of folks, including a former poster who put lots of time into scouting, had him as the most sure-fire pick in the draft.

Suggs is also a full year older than RJ was as a rookie.

This is not to say that Suggs is a bust or even a bad pick at #5, obviously too early for that. But if he were our #5 pick (let alone #1) I’d be horrified. OTOH RJ was pretty much who I expected as a rookie.

Z-man: OTOH RJ was pretty much who I expected as a rookie.

That might be true, but it does skip the fact the RJ was one of the worst basketball players on the planet in his rookie year, at least by most advanced stats. Good on you if that was your expectation. Suggs is worse, but it’s a question of degree.

A lot of people here seem to want to throw JR the keys to the car, but I’m still on the fence. I can see a good basketball player in there, and a path to a very good one. But he’s got a lot of development to go, and he’s got to get rid of a few bad habits now, which I think is harder. No guarantee.

If I had to guess I’d say Suggs will take a similar trajectory, where by the end of his third season people are arguing about whether he’s going to be a mediocre player or a good one. I don’t get the sense he’s going to flatline like Knox. Could be wrong, but that’s where I’d put my money.

Raven: That might be true, but it does skip the fact the RJ was one of the worst basketball players on the planet in his rookie year, at least by most advanced stats. Good on you if that was your expectation. Suggs is worse, but it’s a question of degree.

A lot of people here seem to want to throw JR the keys to the car, but I’m still on the fence. I can see a good basketball player in there, and a path to a very good one. But he’s got a lot of development to go, and he’s got to get rid of a few bad habits now, which I think is harder. No guarantee.

If I had to guess I’d say Suggs will take a similar trajectory, where by the end of his third season people are arguing about whether he’s going to be a mediocre player or a good one. I don’t get the sense he’s going to flatline like Knox. Could be wrong, but that’s where I’d put my money.

RJ came out of college with major question marks…no right hand, poor shooting mechanics, so-so athleticism. There were lots of folks here and elsewhere who rightfully felt he was going at #3 largely on hype rather than actual performance. So when he struggled, no one here was all that surprised or shocked. Folks just differed on what it meant for his future.

Suggs was largely considered to be on a par with Cade, Green and Mobley as a legit top-4 guy, and many had him at the top of that group. If we had tanked and wound up with a top-4 pick and drafted Suggs, nearly everyone here would have been elated and felt we finally landed our first franchise PG since Clyde. Can you imagine what folks here would be thinking now?

Forget RJ, IQ just dropped a triple-double & Obi has back-to-back 20 point games. If these two got 30 minutes every game, then more national news members would be talking about the Knicks’ solid young core.

Compare Cole’s advanced numbers to IQ, it might give you some more hope.

And I know WCJ is good, but us he so much better than Mitch that you’d write him off?

***I’ve got to ask, does anyone think the Magic’s young core and/or future prospects is better than ours?***

Wagner has had a really good rookie season. Outside of the Knicks bubble, I don’t think anybody would say that RJ Barrett has more upside than him.

And it’s been two full seasons since he’s played, which is kind of alarming, but Isaac was rounding nicely into form before he injured the knee he refused to take.

Well Orlando’s young core certainly SHOULD be better than ours. In the last 10 years they have drafted 2, 4, 5, 11, 6, 6, 16, 15, 5, and 8 plus multiple late 1st and early 2nds, and have one playoff series where they lost 4-1 to show for it with a high water mark of 42 wins and 7 seasons in the 20’s.

While it would have been a huge disappointment, definitely, I know I’m always prepared to throw the first year out the window nowadays, with how young these guys all are. It’s the second year that has become key for me. You gotta show me something in the second year and if you don’t, I’m pretty much writing you off (which I did with Frank and Knox). RJ improved enough in his second year that I wasn’t out on him, but he definitely needed to keep improving. So if the Knicks had Suggs and he just had that shitty rookie season, I’d still want to give him another year before worrying about him.

And yes, dudes sometimes suck for years and then become good players but not often enough for me to pay it any real mind. You just get into wishcasting at that point.

I agree, Brian, and certainly am not writing him off, he clearly has lots of tools and could easily turn it around. Darius Garand is a good example of a guy who had a terrible 20yo season and is now an all-star candidate on his rookie deal. But man, Suggs was really rock-bottom awful for a guy who actually got minutes, and he was so highly touted that it was kinda shocking.

If I understand the play-in/draft position rules correctly, if the season ended today we would want the Pellies and Spurs to win the play-in. If that happens, we move up 2 slots in the lottery odds.

If I understand the play-in/draft position rules correctly, if the season ended today we would want the Pellies and Spurs to win the play-in. If that happens, we move up 2 slots in the lottery odds.

Sort of correct. Only one of the Pellies and Spurs can win the play-in, since they play each other in an elimination game for the first play-in. But yes, we definitely want one of them to make the playoffs, as it would move the Knicks up one spot in the draft order.

I agree, Brian, and certainly am not writing him off, he clearly has lots of tools and could easily turn it around. Darius Garand is a good example of a guy who had a terrible 20yo season and is now an all-star candidate on his rookie deal. But man, Suggs was really rock-bottom awful for a guy who actually got minutes, and he was so highly touted that it was kinda shocking.

Oh, it’s super shocking. I was re-watching the Gonzaga/UCLA game the other night and if you watched that game live and someone told you, “This guy Suggs is going to have a shitty rookie season,” you’d be stunned. “This guy? The guy who looks like he has everything you need to be an NBA star? This guy?” But that’s what I was thinking when I mentioned the Masai thing earlier. Suggs seemed to me to have all the tools to be an NBA stud, so for Masai to say, “Nah, I’m good” really made me think that maybe there was some issue we were all missing with Suggs’ ability to translate to the NBA. Yes, it could just be that Masai liked Barnes a lot, but it still stood out to me that Suggs seemed to fit Toronto perfectly and they wanted nothing to do with him.

Z-man:
Well Orlando’s young core certainly SHOULD be better than ours. In the last 10 years they have drafted 2, 4, 5, 11, 6, 6, 16, 15, 5, and 8 plus multiple late 1st and early 2nds, and have one playoff series where they lost 4-1 to show for it with a high water mark of 42 wins and 7 seasons in the 20’s.

Just on a very simplistic level, Orlando’s draft picks and success are an argument against tanking

Brian Cronin: Only one of the Pellies and Spurs can win the play-in

Ah yes. Thanks for the clarification.

Knick fan not in NJ: Just on a very simplistic level, Orlando’s draft picks and success are an argument against tanking

It probably means if you are a poorly run franchise, it doesn’t really matter what you do (you still will suck, but less) as the short term benefit of getting a good pick is outweighed by bad long term decisions. Lucky for the Knicks as they have never been poorly run, and now shy away from making ANY long term decisions.

It is really frustrating as a nob giving his poorly formed opinions on players for years on the internet that there are guys out there who do actually know what they are doing and somehow we never hire them.

Just hire Masai. It’s not hard.

BernieEarnie: Ah yes.Thanks for the clarification.

It probably means if you are a poorly run franchise, it doesn’t really matter what you do (you still will suck, but less) as the short term benefit of getting a good pick is outweighed by bad long term decisions.Lucky for the Knicks as they have never been poorly run, and now shy away from making ANY long term decisions.

If good picks can be outweighed by bad decisions then less good draft picks can be helped by good decisions. So we should pray for smart management more than for draft luck. Of course, both are nice to have and somehow draft luck seems the preferred path dd or many Knick fans.

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