So quiet out here. I guess I’ll lead off by saying that LeBron’s Polymarket deal is so sad (and disgusting). Eight million sectors and companies and organizations he could have gotten in bed with (and no need to get in bed with any of them), and he opted for grifters destroying lives.

Strat still insisting we got 95 cents on the dollar for Jalen Johnson 5 years later is adorable.

That’s because I am right.

This is a silly argument and as investor and gambler you know that.

That was one of many possible results.

If I took 95 cents on the dollar on a coin flip because I had a long term strategy that required that I have 95 cents in the future (for a different trade) instead of a dollar now; would have called heads; and then 10 heads in a row came up, that does not negate my decision at the time. I may have had no opinion on the draft. I might have drafted Kevin Knox. I might not have been able to land a critial player later because I didn’t have enough picks to trade etc..

The only thing that matters is long term expected value of the assets that were swapped at the time of the trade.

The only thing that matters is long term expected value of the assets that were swapped at the time of the trade.

…and as many people, both here and in the general NBA media, pointed out at the time, as in on draft night itself, our expected ROI on that trade was terrible.

So we have two possibilities:

1) all of those people were wrong at the time, and have merely lucked into their assessment turning out to be correct in hindsight. We can call this the “Strat has never been wrong about anything, that’s why Frank Ntilikina is gearing up for his 6th all-star season while Phil Jackson goes for a 3-peat as POBO” possibility.

2) Leon Rose is a very good GM, but that trade really did suck.

On the Deuce vs Bridges debate, I don’t think you are going to get the correct answer from any AIO stats.

When two players are reasonably close on AIO stats, imo you have to start looking at specific skill sets, needs of the team, fit etc…

Deuce is a good POA defender, pest on defense and can hit 3s, but he’s an undersized SG and not much of a shot creator.

Mikal is soild defensively, big enough to play the 2 or 3, even switch on some 4s and can score effectively in more ways.

To me, Mikal is underutilzed on offense because the Knicks have so much offensive talent in the starting lineup. That is not reflected in his stats. But there are games/periods etc… when we need him to do more and he’s more capable of delivering than Deuce.

I love Deuce and have long believed his impact is greater than his boxscore, but I still prefer Mikal, especially in our starting lineup due to size and switchability.

Also, now that we have Alvardo , we have an alternative for “pesty POA defender”. Alavardo is also a backup PG (not SG), which is actually a better fit for the team now.

If we can keep Deuce, I’ll be as happy a pig in mud. I want him to stay. But if the backup C position becomes an issue, with Alvardo and Shamet now signed, Deuce is the player to use in the trade that hurts us least and could help us get a quality player back.

…and as many people, both here and in the general NBA media, pointed out at the time, as in on draft night itself, our expected ROI on that trade was terrible.

Well, I disagree. The draft is mostly a crapshoot. The value of each position can be calculated based on data. There may be weak and strong drafts that change the values a bit year to year, but that is also understood.

I don’t care what NBA media people have to say because with very few exceptions they don’t know what they are talking about.

Our resident value oriented poster even chimed in and said it wasn’t nearly as bad as being made out to be in terms of lost VALUE. In fact, I may have gotten the 5 cents from him.

We know what the strategy was.

It was to give up a little current value for a player with “X” long term expected value in that draft position to have the assets required in the future to trade for a player that would help us win now. We used picks as part of deals to add several players.

It was the right move for a team in win now mode. If we were building for 5 or more years out, it would have been a bad move and he wouldn’t have done it.

I was thinking about TheRant’s question again this morning…

So I’m wondering — can people remember precedents in the league where there are players at the 2/3/4 who are as interchangable as our current crop?

… and it made me think of a team I really like this year: the Raptors.

I don’t know if you watched much of the Cavs-Raptors series last year but Toronto rookie Collin Murray-Bowles really stood out. He’s a 6’7″ PF who can easily play center and guard wings.

IQ-RJ-Barnes-Kawhi-Bowles is going to be an extremely good & interchangeable defensive lineup. It probably doesn’t have enough shooting to dethrone us but that’s the last team in the East I want to mess with in the playoffs.

Boyles. I think it’s more important this time than most other times.

I can’t believe we’re relitigating the incineration debate when the Knicks are now the reigning NBA champs. Like who seriously gives a fuck?

Boyles is correct, but I’m just curious — why is it more important this time?

Sometimes it is more clear who is actually being referenced even when incorrect. If one just read the part that said “Bowles” by itself, one would have no idea. (Todd Bowles, perhaps? 🙂 ) Have to account for the fact that not everyone reads everything, although I guess that’s kinda sorta on them.

IQ-RJ-Barnes-Kawhi-Bowles is going to be an extremely good & interchangeable defensive lineup.

Facts. Toronto is gonna be a problem. The road to the finals this season is infested with both cobras and lions. We were all right that last year was our best shot. Still can’t believe we actually did it sometimes.

It will all depend on Kawhi, though. Does he show up motivated and pissed to prove something? Or does he not give a shit?

I don’t think I can remember a single NBA player as mercurial and enigmatic as Kawhi. He can be the most talented 2 way player in the league but so often just doesn’t seem to give a shit.

We were all right that last year was our best shot. Still can’t believe we actually did it sometimes.

I think we did it so convincingly that this year is still part of our shot.

Kawhi, Giannis, Halliburton, Tatum, and LeBron are all going to be here now. But as long as we’re a top 2 seed we probably only have to beat two of them.

I read it as Sally Bowles, the Weimar-era chanteuse played by Liza Minnelli, so thank you for the clarification.

Kawhi, Giannis, Halliburton, Tatum, and LeBron are all going to be here now.

Yeah but we got Brunson. I ain’t scared!

Random fact that may only interest me…

Dec 11th – NBA Cup Final
Dec 12th – Knicks @ Miami
Dec 14th – Knicks @ Houston

I like the cup but that’s just ridiculous. Give this thing some room to breathe.

We’re going to have to lose a couple of these games to avoid an even worse schedule crunch than last year:

10/30 @ Philadelphia
11/13 @ Indiana
11/25 vs Cleveland
11/27 vs Miami

But they’re all relatively big early season games that I suspect we’ll be up for.

I think we did it so convincingly that this year is still part of our shot.

Wish I was as optimnistic as you are. To me, it feels like we got both hot and lucky. Everything broke our way. Similar to Jimmy Butler’s 2023 Miami run.

Most of our rotation played significantly above their career levels at the same time while the easiest possible path broke into reality.

Not sure this team is an all-time great dynasty or even better than most of the previous 8 champions.

We have proven that we have the guts and the character to do it which, I never questioned, and now they know what it actually takes. Hope that makes up for the talent and lack of depth.

Good Ferrall piece…re: KAT…first 6 minutes of it.

https://x.com/ScottFerrall/status/2107477369392861481?s=20

Most of our rotation played significantly above their career levels at the same time while the easiest possible path broke into reality.

And we dominated.

If we’d just squeaked by like the Pacers did when most of their rotation played significantly above their career levels at the same time while their easiest path broke into reality, then I’d be concerned.

But we have a huge margin of error.

Last year it was easy to win the east. This year I think it will be hard. But I still think we’ll do it.

Knicks have the most talent of any team in the East.

I don’t think I ever have ever watched Kawhi and thought he was checked out. Far from it. He’s just always hurt.

Good Ferrall piece…re: KAT…first 6 minutes of it.

That was the worst take I’ve ever heard.

I’m shocked there is this much hate for KAT and support for it.

Guy wins us a chip and now he’s got to give up $50M or “he can fuck off”? I don’t get it.

sometimes the truth hurts….not personal just business

“ I don’t think I ever have ever watched Kawhi and thought he was checked out. Far from it. He’s just always hurt.”

I’m somewhere in the middle on this. Never seen him checking out in a game (though my sample size is probably less than 30 games). But the term load management was likely invented for him and he never seemed to mind. And the only time you saw an emotion that he really cared about something was him wanting to leave SA. That said, the least person I want to see fully healthy in a best of 7 playoff match up in the East.

KAT won us a championship. He owes us nothing.

If he wants to get paid, he should go get paid.

sometimes the truth hurts

His argument was the Knicks’ championship “was a miracle” and “they’re never gonna win another one so why give him the money?”

How the hell did we go straight from a parade to tear down country?

Similar to Jimmy Butler’s 2023 Miami run.

Except for one major difference. 🙂

while the easiest possible path broke into reality.

This seems kind of revisionist based on the fact that we won so easily.

Before the Atlanta series we were favored to win by most pundits but a lot of them thought Atlanta would give us problems and could win the series.

I also never really get the logic that if one team beats another team in a previous round, somehow you ended up getting the easier team.

Philly beat Boston. Regular season wins don’t matter in the playoffs. There is no reason to suspect Boston would have beaten us if they couldn’t beat Philly.

Detroit was the lucky break but they also showed they were a regular season paper tiger and did not have another gear in them. And Cleveland the year before was the 1 seed that won over 60 games.

Then there’s OKC vs. San Antonio. OK, that was an “upset” to some degree but San Antonio won 60 games! It’s not like it was the Baron Davis Warriors upsetting a 60 plus win Dallas team. If San Antonio was “easier” than OKC, the difference was marginal. And again, how many pundits said we would lose that series?

We dismantled Atlanta in the last 3 games. Swept Philly, swept Cleveland, and then beat SA in 5 games.

Our dominance should not count against us.

I’m not saying we’re a dynasty, just that we didn’t get lucky. And no one we faced had any serious injuries to deal with (Embiid does not count, he’s always at least partially hurt).

How the hell did we go straight from a parade to tear down country?

Sports pundits can only get attention by saying the most dire shit possible. Someone the other day said “sure they won a title, but it’s still The Knicks, so they’ll screw this up and lose KAT.”

There is a middle ground between the current offer and the max KAT can get that will make everyone happy (or happish). They just gotta find it.

How the hell did we go straight from a parade to tear down country?

I’m very confident KAT will get extended, and the starters will get at least two to three more years together.

I am not at all confident that Deuce will be retained, and I’m guessing they’re weighing an extra year of Deuce versus a trade for a cheap center as we speak. Fortunately we have Landry and Alvarado locked in.

The only part of that take I agreed with was “let him play out the season.”

I am firmly in the camp that unless we’re getting a discount we should run all of these contracts down and deal with them when they hit free agency, not 1-2 years before.

You just have to accept that if another team gives him the money, it’s going to cost you more.

This seems kind of revisionist based on the fact that we won so easily.

Just go back to last season and look at our own posts, see how most of us felt about this team and how we feel now. The answer of how good the team is lies somewhere in the middle. My two cents.

there is a reason our run was “historic” ….by definition…that shit doesn’t happen very often..it’s not tear down…it’s just realism on the odds of it happening again like that are nil (almost)…

Most of the teams that have had historic playoff runs win the championship the next year. I think it was every team except 1 repeated.

The only thing that won’t happen again is the 16-3 with the greatest point differential ever.

Our bench is a huge question mark.

We don’t have a legitimate back up center and our back up PF is 21 yrs old with less than 400 total meaningful career minutes. Odds are at least one of Clarkson, Alvarado or Shamet will revert back to sucking.

Hope I’m wrong and all five have 2BPM+ seasons.

how many have repeated in the last decade?

since 2000…kobe/shaq….lebron/wade and curry/durant…we are not the warriors and the other two repeats were 7 games and one relied on a brain fart by popovich…come’on dude….

Here’s the graphic I was referring to…

All the teams that went on “historic” runs in the 4-round playoff era & how they fared the next year.

| **1** | **2026 Knicks** | 16-3 | **+283** | **+14.89** |
| **2** | **2017 Warriors** | 16-1 | +230 | **+13.53** | Won NBA title
| **3** | **2001 Lakers** | 15-1 | +204 | **+12.75** | Won NBA title
| **4** | **1991 Bulls** | 15-2 | +199 | **+11.71** | Won NBA title
| **5** | **1987 Lakers** | 15-3 | +205 | **+11.39** | Won NBA title
| **6** | **1996 Bulls** | 15-3 | +190 | **+10.56** | Won NBA title
| **7** | **1986 Celtics** | 15-3 | +186 | **+10.33** | Lost NBA Finals
| **8** | **2024 Celtics** | 16-3 | +153 | **+8.05** | Lost in EC SF
| **9** | **1989 Pistons** | 15-2 | +131 | **+7.71** | Won NBA title

I’d say the historic nature of our victory makes it more likely we’ll win again, not less.

Dominant goes hand in hand with Most Favourite to Win.
We were and still are Underdog Contenders.

We made the ECF the year before. With Hali injured, we probably should have been the favorite.

we are not the warriors

In 2015 after the Warriors won their first chip did anyone think “oh this team is going to win the most regular season wins next year, go to the next 4 finals, win three more titles and add Durant to their team.”

We don’t have a legitimate back up center and our back up PF is 21 yrs old with less than 400 total meaningful career minutes. Odds are at least one of Clarkson, Alvarado or Shamet will revert back to sucking.

Only one of these things is true. The other two either don’t matter or is just pure doom conjecture.

We didn’t have a back up power forward this year in the playoffs. Diawara played zero minutes in the playoffs and it DID NOT MATTER.

Alvarado and Shamet have never “sucked” so saying they’re going to go back to that is a fucking ridiculous thing to say. Clarkson played limited minutes in the playoffs.

The only part of your statement that matters is the back up center part. Even then…Mitch didn’t actually play all that much in the playoffs!

Like WTF is going on here today with people dimissing our chip?

Come on guys. Do better.

Alvarado and Shamet have never “sucked” so saying they’re going to go back to that is a fucking ridiculous thing to say.

Ok. You’re right. These two had long marvelous careers impacting wining. My apologies.

Alvarado has legitimately been great throughout his career. It was an absolute steal of a trade.

Ok. You’re right. These two had long marvelous careers impacting wining. My apologies.

What a moronic thing to say.

Let’s take a quick look.

Teams Shamet has played on.

18-19 Philly – won 51 games (traded halfway through)
18-19 Clippers – 48-34 (8th seed took the warriors to 7 games)
19-20 Clippers – 49-23 – 2nd seed
20-21 Nets – 48-23 – 2nd seed
21-22 Suns – 64-18 – went to the finals
22-23 suns – 45-37 – 4th in western conference
23-24 Wizards – sucked
24-25 Knicks – won 50 games, conference finals
25-26 Knicks – NBA Champs

Seems like just about every where Landry has played, they’ve been pretty good, no? He’s averaged between 20 to 27 minutes on all of these teams. Perfectly good role player. What are you expecting from the bench? A bunch of all-stars? They’re role players. Shamet has proven stop after stop that he’s a great bench piece for competitive, winning teams.

Alvarado has been on bad teams but pretty much every advanced stat out there has him as a good role player.

Like WTF are you even talking about? They suck? Go fuck yourself.

So good to be NBA Champions. I’m not predicting anything, i’m not worried about the team. There’s no pressure at all. They achieved what i wanted (and waited) for so long, i have no demands. I’m just going to relax and enjoy the season. 🧡💙

Like WTF is going on here today with people dimissing our chip?

I’ll tell you what gets me, Swift.

When the Spurs played the Wolves…

– Ant had a bum knee
– Donte was out for the year
– Ayo missed games with a calf injury

When the Spurs played the Thunder…

– Jalen Williams was out with a hamstring injury
– Ajay Mitchell was out with a calf injury

And those were two really tough series that could have gone either way.

And everyone says we got lucky, and they’re going back to the finals.

no way the yanks lose 3 in a row to tampa, no way…

“ Odds are at least one of Clarkson, Alvarado or Shamet will revert back to sucking.”

Director, not sure where you are coming from. All 3 played to the best versions (and more in the case of Shamet) of themselves in the playoffs, and we resigned all 3 on team friendly contracts. Even if one of them reverts back or sucks (whatever that means) that is a good outcome since the other 2 would not have. Not a bad outcome for 2 end of rotation and 1 fringe rotation players.

I get thinking “odds are it won’t happen again.”

What I don’t get is thinking “break up the team because odds are it won’t happen again.” That’s what the old man with the cigarette voice in pepper’s video was suggesting.

vincent goodwill is the most annoying addition to the nba today table since…not sure there is a decent comparison…they are like a million other writers besides for him – pick any…

said some sideways stuff about the knicks last season…some how his facial expressions are even more annoying than his words…not an easy thing to do…

espn has the east as:
knicks
celts
pistons
sixers
cavs
raptors
heat
magic
hawks
pacers

who gives a shit about the bucks, bulls, nets, hornets and wiz…it’s a hard knock life

my guess:
cavs
pistons
knicks
sixers
celts
hawks
raptors
heat
pacers
magic

believe the cavs and pistons will continue to be strong regular season teams…

don’t think mb will push for each and every win, the players might…

we seem to no longer be in need of pj tucker’s strong locker room presence…that’s a good thing…

I love thinking and believing the celtics are being way over rated coming in to the season, same as the raptors…

the pistons have cade/duren, the cavs harden/mitchell/maybe mobley…and we have a solid team…

think the hawks are going to be tough to play…ha, hope they learned some things from being in the playoffs…not really…

almost begrudgingly, it seems brown can carry a team, maxey can’t…lebron can’t…embiid can’t…

guys like cade and brown are a handful, by themselves…johnson with the hawks may soon be the same…

How the hell did we go straight from a parade to tear down country?

I don’t think we are in tear down country at all. If KAT and the FO can come to terms, then this will blow over and we can talk hoops again. And once again fondly remember the parade.

I think two things happened, and nothing I’m typing here is news to anyone.

– The first is that the 2026 Knicks Victory resulted in a tidal wave of talent moving east. LeBron and Kawhi and Giannis (does anyone really think Wisconsin is “east”?) and others came to take us on. That doesn’t make us a tear down, it just underscores that 2026 was a great opportunity, and we met the challenge. 2027 will be a greater challenge.

– The second is the wonderful/horrible thing about NYC as the world’s largest media market.

The wonderful – all of the goodwill and cheer we all felt, for the entire summer, down to Brunson hosting SNL and on and on. It means Mike Brown and Josh and Jalen and OG and KAT and Mikal will never pay for another meal again in their lives, if they don’t want to. Alvarado can grand marshal the Puerto Rican Day parade until Lin Manuel says he can’t.

The horrible – as long as there is nothing else to talk about, the media will keep harping on the KAT contract. And if Dolan or KAT take the bait, the negative may begin to overwhelm all else until the sports press find something new to discuss.

If KAT and the FO can come to terms, then this will blow over and we can talk hoops again.

I’ll go one further…

if they don’t come to terms, this will all blow over, too.

those of you who are so convinced no one on the market is going to offer him anywhere near what he’s looking for, that means he would opt in and we have him for two more years.

very curious to see what AD ends up extending on…who would ever be crazy enough to offer him more than 2 years, maybe 3 at the very most…

gonna go look at the schedule…thinking though our record may be closer to .500 than liked the first 20 games in…

We made the ECF the year before. With Hali injured, we probably should have been the favorite.

When bookies consider you as the 4th team to win the chip, 2nd in your conference and 3 times less possible than the first 2 teams then Dominant is a joke.
Especially right after you won it all in “dominant” fashion!

Futures don’t need to be accurate. If people are willing to dump money on a worse line, the bookies will happily lower it there

EB, I disagree…just watched a commercial that told me prediction markets are different and of the people, for the people, and by the people…

picked us 4th…they got it right…right?

A few months before last season’s nba playoffs i started gambling low just to spice things up and see what i can do.
Only nba.
To give you an example i bet 3,45euros 1 month before the playoffs when the knicks were given 14,5 to win the chip and got 50 back.
I NEVER felt confident enough to go ALL IN despite being a knicks die hard, an optimist and a kb reader.

Dominant in my book means i just got the title got also KD and watch the other contenders as nobodies.
We were never that kind of a team.

In case no one posted it, Alan’s guest essay for the NYT regarding the enduring elements of Rod Serling’s approach to writing The Twilight Zone is truly excellent. Great job, sir!

We were never that kind of a team.

Tell that to the Hawks, Sixers, and Cavs.

Thanks, Z-man!

“very curious to see what AD ends up extending on…who would ever be crazy enough to offer him more than 2 years, maybe 3 at the very most…”

Maybe GQ magazine? Street Clothes can rock a DNP-injured get-up with the best of ’em.

Who the heck is Aday Mara

Why do these guys always end up in OKC?

When we win our second title next year E will say “yeah but we’re not as dominant as these historic teams that threepeated.”

Don’t reach out and grab fly balls, dumb mook fans

‘Who the heck is Aday Mara?’

Starting C on the NCAA champs and 12th pick in the draft.

Do people who actually watch the Yankees feel as hopeless as I do when they see Trent Grisham batting leadoff?

Grisham leading off is all you need to know of the hal/cashman/boonie era…

well, that’s all folks…see ya next season…

lol I would have bet anything that bum would have come up for the final AB.

I just don’t even know how it’s possible for the Rays to do what they do. Their highest salaried player (other than Wander Franco who will probably never play another game in MLB) is Nick Martinez at $9M. It’s just incredible what they do with player development and scouting. Their entire payroll is $87M.

They do Moneyball in a way that is just high art.

Dear Lord,

We were only half-kidding when we said we’d sacrifice the Yankees for the Knicks winning the chip.

Edit: fuck it, it’s still a fair tradeoff.

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