Knicks Morning News (2025.06.17)

56 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.17)”

all is right with the world this morning

Watching last night, it seems to me the area we are lacking in is collective athleticism and quickness.

I think selling high on Josh Hart should be a priority. He’ll be 31 in next year’s playoffs. He’s played 2700 minutes a year since coming over here. He currently has two years and a team option at a good price. Scour the league for the next Dyson Daniels on a desperate team.

Watching last night, it seems to me the area we are lacking in is collective athleticism and quickness.

I think selling high on Josh Hart should be a priority.

You aren’t wrong about our team but would like to point out that getting rid of Josh Hart makes our team less athletic and quick. He’s literally the only guy on the team who pushes the pace right now. He also skies high for rebounds, etc.

Put another way. You could swap him out for one of OKC’s players and he would fit right in.

I still go back to the idea that we should be looking to move Hart to the bench by upgrading the starting line up with a stretch 4 who can rebound/defend. Those dudes are not easy to find especially with our limited resources but if we could do that without getting rid of our core 7 guys, we would be in much better shape. Hart for 25 to 28 minutes off the bench can be a wrecking ball with the second unit.

Is Dadiet athletic and/or quick? I’m still not sure he’s ready to leap to real rotation minutes yet. I’m just thinking about the end of benchers. Kolek is crafty but not athletic. Hukporti? McCullar?

Put another way. You could swap him out for one of OKC’s players and he would fit right in.

I guess the argument there, though, is that yes, he would play on OKC, but he would be interchangeable with guys like Cason Wallace and Aaron Wiggins, while making more per year than both of those two guys combined.

Put another way. You could swap him out for one of OKC’s players and he would fit right in.

I disagree. Thought he was half a step behind the Pacers all series on defense and wasn’t a good option to guard anyone. He was too slow for the guards, too small for Siakim.

I agree he would be great on the bench but that would require us to have a viable starting F and I don’t see how we get one of those. I’d rather have the viable starter than the super sub.

Yes, but some of that was from playing too many minutes, no?

He was fantastic against Detroit and Boston.

I’m just worried we’re suffering from recency bias with Hart bc he had a one poor series. Didn’t he play pretty well against the Pacers last year (for the first 5 games at least?)

He was quite poor against Miami in 2023 as well.

Sure.

He’s a role player, though. Role players don’t play well in every single playoff series. Hell, stars don’t always play well in every single playoff series. Lebron has shat the bed multiple times throughout his career in certain playoff series. Butler was just a no-show against Minnesota. It happens. It seems unfair to hold Hart to some standard of playing well in every single playoff series when he’s supposed to be a role player, not a star.

I’m not makin excuses for the guy. He might be our best trade chip to reconfigure the team in a way that makes the most sense. Just think a lot of this comes from his current outsized role on our team.

I’m not really thinking about his play, E. I’m just thinking his athleticism is likely to decline soon and I want to get ahead of it the way the Celtics did when they sold high on Marcus Smart.

Josh hasn’t been deployed as anything resembling a “role player” since he became a Knick. Thibs kept him just under 30 mpg that Miami series because he didn’t play well; other than that he’s averaging something like 38 mpg in the playoffs. He played over 46 mpg in the Philly series.

In terms of the bigger picture, not many around these parts want to come to terms with it (*), but they’ve really barely moved the needle in the last two years. Team two years ago had 48 Pythag wins, 3rd in offense, 7th in SRS, top playoff defense in the association; this year’s team had 51 pythag wins, 5th in offense, 9th in SRS, meh playoff defense. One extra round this year, but Randle’s ankle was shredded during the 2023 spring.

For the amount of frontloading of assets that was done into 2025, that’s nowhere near a big enough delta.(**)

That’s the true big picture. It’s gonna be tough from here. Fingers crossed.

(*) Or it gets attributed to the wrong thing(s).

(**) If it’s really even a delta at all.

It would be fantastic if Huk, Kolek, Dadiet, and McCullar take a leap next season. Unfortunately, the only ones I’m sure that has the work ethic to do it are Kolek and McCullar. I have faith that Huk can because he got early experience and Thibs seemed to trust him a little. Dadiet is still the unknown after a season. Outside of that, I hope we bring Wright back and maybe sign 2 vet minimum rotation guys like Bogey and Horford if they want to ring chase. Or what about Looney? Is he a FA this year? If he is, could we get him for the minimum?

no on bogey looney sure horford even more sure

The only reason I’d be interested in Bogey is we need a bigger, more reliable shooter and scorer on the bench than Shamet. And honestly, Shamet probably played his way out of our price range anyway

Josh hasn’t been deployed as anything resembling a “role player” since he became a Knick. Thibs kept him just under 30 mpg that Miami series because he didn’t play well

1. A starter or 6th man who plays heavy minutes is still be a role player. A role player is anyone who isn’t a star.

2. I don’t know if you heard, but Thibs got fired.

he would be interchangeable with guys like Cason Wallace and Aaron Wiggins, while making more per year than both of those two guys combined

And that, Mr. Rose, is why you need multiple players on rookie contracts who the coach will actually work into games.

Scour the league for the next Dyson Daniels on a desperate team.

This actually works as a vote for correcting the Mikal Bridges trade.

As you know, ATL quickly pivoted after they saw that Dejounte Murray wasn’t working with his good buddy Trae, so they bit the bullet and flipped him for a Dyson package after the season, making the best of a bad situation. Sound familiar?

Although I also agree with all your points re: Hart.

I recognize my Hukporti love last season was partly a schtick. but I also think he’s the only real NBA-ready guy of the bunch. He clearly showed he could play with the big boys during that stint before the injury, and he was getting to the point where he wasn’t being embarrassed defensively. I think there’s a real role or him right off the bat, at least for spot minutes (10-15). If we role it back, it’s another way for more KAT at the four.

We all know Kolek is polished, we all know he’s exploitable. How much so is the question, it’ll be interesting to watch.

Dadiet and McCullar are like raw beef to me. Maybe one or the other has worked tirelessly on various parts of his game over the offseason and comes in ready to cook. I’d be very pleasantly surprised. Maybe amazed.

Wiggins isn’t on a rookie contract, but the point still stands.

I remember looking at the post-Isiah payroll and just scratching my head as to how to fix it back in the day. Looking at this OKC spreadsheet is like looking at Botticelli’s Birth of Venus.

ATL quickly pivoted after they saw that Dejounte Murray wasn’t working with his good buddy Trae, so they bit the bullet and flipped him for a Dyson package after the season, making the best of a bad situation. Sound familiar?

Yes, it does sound a little familiar to me.

Agree with Raven on the rooks. Not a terrible group, but hard to imagine too much coming from them beyond Huk and maybe spot minutes from Kolek.

Scour the league for the next Dyson Daniels on a desperate team.

Since I advocated for trading up to get Daniels but would have been happy with Eason, maybe Bridges for Eason + filler? Houston isn’t desperate, but Bridges would be good for them.

Edit: that’s acknowledging a pretty big mistake on our part trading for Mikal in the first place, but a trade would help our cap and give us a bigger, better defender who might with better with KAT/JB.

Man if we fire Thibs and then trade Hart and Mikal in the same off season? Plus potentially move Daddy away from the bench? Brunson might not be happy with all that!

I am curious how many folks on team run-it-back-with-a-new-coach are closely watching these finals. When I watch these games and imagine an egalitarian motion Knicks offense going against this Thunder defense there’s a turnover counter in my head and it never stops ticking up. I can’t escape the irony that low-risk Thibs ball is actually the best way to beat this team.

But that’s the whole thing with basketball these days: to win four rounds now you need to play different styles. That’s why Thibs was a problem, and why the smart teams are moving away from top heavy and moving towards versatility.

I remember looking at the post-Isiah payroll and just scratching my head as to how to fix it back in the day. Looking at this OKC spreadsheet is like looking at Botticelli’s Birth of Venus.

One of my first posts was about the Isiah payroll (mixed with their draft picks at the time), and how it just clearly meant that they literally couldn’t be fixed for years. Then it finally was fixed, and they promptly blew all of their flexibility on Melo.

…or, we can consider how to make our ‘top heavy’ (i.e., decent and highly skilled four starters) learn how to play in more diverse styles over the year so they can switch into different systems once the playoffs start.

Honestly Hubs, I don’t know if that would work. Maybe they’re all just calcified skill players with little flexibility. Not convinced, and why the ‘right’ coach is so important (and unlikely?).

Listened to a little bit of media and I have to say it sure seems like Halliburton did an effective job protecting his legacy by really selling that injury. Credit to Kendrick Perkins who pointed out he was playing terribly before he fell down, that he looked scared the whole night, and that he has major history of no showing in big games.

Neither he nor I am suggesting he faked the injury. Sure he got hurt and was a little gimpy but was it any different than the injuries Mitchell and Mobley and Garland played through, or KAT’s hand and knee? This was a Tyrese Halliburton No Show Game in which he got injured at some point, not a game where Poor Tyrese couldn’t play bc he was injured.

Yours truly,

Bitter & Disgruntled

brunson on thibs getting canned i do not like it but it is a business brunson on mikal getting traded i understand it is a business brunson on hart getting trade aw hell naw hart on his dad being removed from the bench aw hell naw i did not give you a 110 million dollar discount for this

I wonder if these anti-big market rule changes are going to bite the NBA in the ass eventually… I haven’t been watching the finals, but how has viewership been overall this year? I mean, LA and NY still have good teams at least.

MLB is sort of the opposite, which should be nice if you follow a big market team.

Dadiet and McCullar are like raw beef to me. Maybe one or the other has worked tirelessly on various parts of his game over the offseason and comes in ready to cook. I’d be very pleasantly surprised. Maybe amazed.

Why would anyone be amazed that a guy who doesn’t turn 20 til next month and was highly regarded by the guys who have made some pretty good picks in the 25-35 range (when give the chance) will improve? The only things I know about the guy are:

For a teenager he already has an NBA type body and better than average athleticism.

Excellent shooting form.

Not ready to play major minutes last season and lost 2 months mid season with a toe injury.

None of the “draft experts” thought him a reach at his spot, understanding he was a project.

I understand New Yorkers are a little impetuous, but how about giving the fellow a little chance to marinate?

But that’s the whole thing with basketball these days: to win four rounds now you need to play different styles. That’s why Thibs was a problem, and why the smart teams are moving away from top heavy and moving towards versatility.

I really don’t get how you can see that and can’t also see that we had lots of flexibility how to play that the coach didn’t access and that’s why we could actually be in the finals now instead of Indiana. Your posts yesterday make it seem like this group is hopeless, when in fact we could mix and match quite a bit.

IMO, they shouldn’t do too much until they make a decision on whether the Towns/Brunson combo can work defensively with Towns at C or in a consistent 2 big man lineup with him at PF?

I think the answer to that depends on the matchups – which probably translates to “no” because sooner of later we are going to come up against team that takes advantage of us because we either have two weak defensive links on the court together or some kind of other unbalanced lineup to protect them.

There are some guys in this league that overall have a lot of value, but they lack certain qualities that make it necessary to find very specific players to put with them.

We have TWO players like that.

With Brunson, the ideal is to have someone like Mitch behind him at C with other good defenders next to him.

With Towns, the ideal is to have a good perimeter defenders (especially POA) and possibly a good rim protecting PF next to him.

It’s really tough to find the unicorn type players we need to make that combination work on defense.

I’m getting the feeling they are going to run it back with a few tweaks on the bench and a new coach and see what they have. Hopefully, the new coach will give the young players enough minutes to both develop and enhance their trade value.

I look for the next big decision after coach to occur at the trade deadline unless something they can’t pass up happens now. At that point they should know what they want to do with Towns/Brunson and hopefully 1-2 of the young players will look like an asset instead of a throw in.

Hopeless is a bit strong, Rama, but I don’t think we have the horses for this kind of basketball.

What is this untapped flexibility you speak of? 5 out? With Deuce guarding the 6’6” SGA… With Mikal & OG needing to end possessions by outrebounding Jalen Williams & Chet Holmgren… I don’t need to see that, I trust Thibs on that. The man was stubborn but not stupid.

OKC has their entire roster under contract for next season, plus they will add Nikola Topic, who was one of the best prospects in last year’s draft and missed this season due to injury. They’ll have the #15 and #24 picks in this year’s draft. Next year they are owed the firsts of Philly and Utah in addition to their own pick. In 2027 they have their own pick, Denver’s pick, plus swap rights with the Clippers.

And of course they have tons of useful young players on their roster that they can use in trades as those players begin to get more expensive.

We have one player on a good salary, a bunch of guys on market value contracts, one player in the rotation under the age of 25, and have traded away every first round pick that wasn’t nailed down by the Stepien Rule.

Not trying to be a pessimist here, but I’m having a hard time seeing how we’re supposed to keep up with those guys.

Oh Bob, as always you delight in rushing to mis-judgement! There’s no impetuousness about my opinion on our baby wings. I’d be shocked if they’re ready for prime time this coming year. Doesn’t mean they’re not great ball players with all-star careers ahead of the both of them. Just, well, probably not next year. May they surprise me!

What is this untapped flexibility you speak of?

Do you think Thibs did a good job mixing and matching? The KAT+defenders lineup played really well and won us one game, and it was an accident due to foul trouble. And yes, going 5-out would have made sense situationally – especially with Turner off the floor, which happened a few times because of foul trouble. Thibs finally went to the 2-big lineup after we were down 2-0 and consistently being outrebounded. (We also lost the TO battle, so rebounds were even more important in a possession-based game, and yet it took Hart saying something to make it happen!)

This is starting to be a complaint about Thibs, but the point is that while many of our players are limited (bad defender, bad creator, too passive), they each also have great strengths, and rather than play to those strengths, Thibs kept throwing rock. I agree the Pacers are more balanced – so then don’t play their game and instead leverage our greater strengths and make them adjust to us. KAT is far better on offense than anyone they have; put out players who complement it. Mitch gets all the boards; use him when we have fewer shooters and need that. They put a small on KAT? Bring in Deuce for Josh and punish them. No, we aren’t well-balanced, and yes, JB and KAT together are a problem on defense – so work around that with your lineups and schemes, stagger their time, make sure Mitch is available if both are on, etc.

Our players were generally more limited but also more effective in their two dimensions. It takes great coaching to work around that – but we had just enough to make it possible, and we didn’t get to see an optimal version of it.

Not trying to be a pessimist here, but I’m having a hard time seeing how we’re supposed to keep up with those guys.

Probably can’t, but we can aim to make the Finals for a few years and hope for some luck. I’d take that.

Bridges for Eason + filler? Houston isn’t desperate, but Bridges would be good for them.

Bridges to Houston has a lot of potential, and that is why I am rooting hard for someone else to get Kevin Durant.

Houston was always high on Bridges. Reportedly they were the team driving up his price.

I think there’s enough “lol Knicks” going around that teams will think “they just didn’t know how to use him, Thibs was too rigid, we’ll fix him” enough to keep a lot of his value.

The problem is that Houston GM is a shark. He’d probably take Leon to the cleaners in a trade.

I assume other GMs around the league just watched Mikal Bridges play a soft brand of low-impact basketball for 3000 minutes and aren’t too keen to give up valuable pieces to import his particular brand of aggressive mediocrity to their own rosters.

He’ll probably end up extending here on a contract that will make us all howl in agony.

So who do we like in the 2nd round of the draft? Do we target Ryan Nembhard to continue the Knicks tradition of having the lesser brother?

So who do we like in the 2nd round of the draft? Do we target Ryan Nembhard to continue the Knicks tradition of having the lesser brother?

I like Micah Peavy, though his wingspan worries me at that height

I assume other GMs around the league just watched Mikal Bridges play a soft brand of low-impact basketball for 3000 minutes and aren’t too keen to give up valuable pieces to import his particular brand of aggressive mediocrity to their own rosters.

I don’t know, he played 2,854 minutes of low impact basketball the year before and there was a major bidding war for his services bc everyone made excuses for it. Happened with Murray, too. I don’t think value dissipates quickly.

Do you think Thibs did a good job mixing and matching?

No but that doesn’t mean mixing and matching is the right answer.

What makes more sense if your 5 best players get outscored all the time?

A. Hire a coach who will play his inferior players more.

B. Get a mix of 5 best players who outscore their opponents.

“Not trying to be a pessimist here, but I’m having a hard time seeing how we’re supposed to keep up with those guys.”
I thought this was very interesting. I would add: What team is equipped (draft capital, salary outlook, current very good roster)? San Antonio? Houston? Is anyone sitting as pretty as OKC?

The answer is not “find a coach who will play worse players.”

Players don’t all bring the same things to the table.

In some all in one metric world where we are discussing who is the better player, Josh Hart is better than Deuce. But if what Deuce brings to the table compliments the other 4 players better against this matchup, Deuce should be playing more minutes.

That’s what Thibs did wrong.

I get your point that we may need to improve the team also, but I think oor biggest problem is not lack of talent. It’s a mismatch of talent.

Is it possible that part of the reason the starters were being outscored is because the offense was a single Brunson/Hart P&R followed by Brunson isoing?

I assume other GMs around the league just watched Mikal Bridges play a soft brand of low-impact basketball for 3000 minutes and aren’t too keen to give up valuable pieces to import his particular brand of aggressive mediocrity to their own rosters.

Someone on Twitter made an excellent point about part of how players are valued these days. He said teams pay close attention to how hard it will be to incorporate a player into what you are already doing.

They pay a premium for players that are easy to fit in vs. players that are tougher to build with.

I think Bridges would still generate a lot of interest around the NBA.

We won’t recover what we paid because part of what we paid was related to his attractive contract at that time and part was related to the assumption that most of the picks we gave up will be in the 20s, but I think we could still get a nice haul for two-way easy to plug in wing that was overused and misued as a POA defender by the Knicks.

I think it’s 100% true that plug and play guys are extremely valued by the NBA in terms of assets, which is why Bane (probably THE top plug and play guy out there) got such a haul. I just wonder if Bridges hurt his “plug and play” rep a bit here with the Knicks. OG was a true “plug and play,” so he maintained all of his value, but I think Bridges might have hurt it some by appearing a bit out of sorts as the #3/4 guy on offense. Desmond Bane is going to adjust to whatever you ask from him on offense. Bridges didn’t seem to do that.

What makes more sense if your 5 best players get outscored all the time?

C. Hire a coach who will play his players more cleverly.

(creating the binary of ‘play the crappy players more’ vs ‘get better players’ misses a pretty broad range of other options, sir…)

It certainly is TC, I’ll grant you that.

Are you watching this series, though? I’m already looking at the next problem: we don’t have enough depth & athleticism to win these kinds of games. And our holes are too easy to exploit.

I’m watching the game highlights from last night and I’m looking at a Thunder unit with Wallace, Dort, Hartenstein, Caruso and Jalen Williams. Who do you even target, there? And that’s without Chet or SGA, each of whom could slide in for any of them and maintain an unattackable five-man defensive squad. Looks like a damn All-Defensive team.

The only thing that can stop a Thunder dynasty is the CBA. This team may have been pressed at times in these playoffs, but this is only the start of their reign. Crazy depth.

We “plug and played” him here, and… well the results speak for themselves. He didn’t fit into our system, which is kind of the opposite of “plug and play.”

Hire a coach who will play his players more cleverly.

creating the binary of ‘play the crappy players more’ vs ‘get better players’ misses a pretty broad range of other options, sir…

There simply is no clever coaching solution to Brunson’s defense, KAT’s defense, OG’s dribbling, Hart’s shooting, Deuce’s height, Mitch’s free throws, and Mikal’s general underwhelmingness, sir.

If you want to build around Brunson & KAT, I think you have to trade Mikal & Hart for as many young athletic wings as you can. Surround the sieves with an army of attacking defenders who can rebound and shoot. You’re still a long shot but you have a shot.

eschewing the draft, drafting poorly when we don’t poo poo it (and don’t point to our 2nd round success as indicative of nailing it) and trading development assets for whatever….usually doesn’t bode well (probably not coincidentally, the rangers are a few years ahead of us in the same issue manifesting itself) and having a coach who is not, um, very imaginative…leaves us here…

I think right now, and I agree, watching the athleticism on display in this final is eye opening vis a vis our roster, Leon really has to thread the slimmest needle holes…so does his couterpart with the rangers…we need some manna from heaven…

If you want to build around Brunson & KAT,

And of course the other solution is to just quit this while you’re ahead and go back to the formula you should have been patient with in the first place.

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56 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.17)”

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