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Knicks Morning News (2025.06.03)
06/03/2025 11:00:02
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121 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.03)”
from James Edwards in the Atlantic:
Seems like a pretty clear if you want to get paid you need to play better situation
That would be the exact same contract Brunson signed last year. No way Mikal should make what Brunson makes.
I agree with DRed. There’s no reason to make a max extension offer to Bridges this summer. There is some risk in waiting, but I don’t think enough to make us pay that. Overall, I’m hoping the Knicks are relatively quiet. We have a very good team. True, we lost to the Pacers, but they are a good team too and one that beat Cleveland. I agree with Donnie about them. I’m expecting them not to get swept by OKC.
I’m hoping for not too much Knicks noise in the off season because we are still coming together as a team. We could be better next year. By the end of the playoffs, our bench was showing it was pretty good. It certainly wasn’t the zero lots of people had feared. And some of Dadiet, Hukporti, Kolek and McCullar should be better next season and be usable pieces. We should see what they are like in training camp before we do something drastic.
There is a lot of trade porn being circulated, and there is the Ringer article saying it will be a hot trade market, but I never believe the trade porn and Ringer article only talks about how many teams are motivated to get under the aprons, but doesn’t give a good accounting of where all the buyers will come from for players teams over the apron are offering.
Yeah I don’t think it’s possible for me to express how hard the “no” would be for a 44M AAV contract for Mikal Bridges.
Seems like a pretty clear if you want to get paid you need to play better situation
maybe. but mikal has a ton of leverage because he has relatively low salary floor risk. an always available 30 year old two-way wing who can shoot is just not going to fall far below 20% of the cap in the market even with another middling year, and that’s ~$34 million in 26-27, which is pretty close to his max extension year 1 number. it’s not going to get much worse for him than andrew wiggins, de’andre hunter, jerami grant territory, and he’ll probably do even better.
but from leon’s perspective he just dealt 2 bad firsts 3 risky firsts and a risky swap for him, so losing him for free would feel unpalatable. even being hyperrational about sunk costs, losing him for nothing would be pretty disastrous given our already limited degrees of freedom. but trading him at the deadline could get thorny given how much leverage mikal will have to refuse to extend with his new team with only a few months left before free agency, and how hard it can be for good teams to make mutually improving trades midseason. you have to hope you can find a suitor who mikal will wink at, a la siakam or og, or you’re going to get jack shit for him. for that reason, i would expect they either extend him or trade him this summer.
Should work in a bonus for every playoff FT he makes
not sure i am seeing how mikal is now a 2 way wing since his defense is below average to bad
But wasn’t free agency declared to be dead?
A googolplex Hope Diamonds.
I’d be willing to give Mikal the money but not the years. I’d offer him a two year max extension or let him take the risk.
that deal (4 at approx 160) is for sure the one where you hold your nose when you’re handing over the check.
I don’t think the Knicks want to move Mikal, but it’s quite possible he’s unhappy here and wants to leave. He does have some things to be unhappy about.
He clearly doesn’t like playing iron man minutes. He called out Thibs for that (probably should have kept that private).
He’s being asked to defend smaller quicker guards a lot the time instead of wing players because Brunson can’t guard them at all.
He’s the 3a option.
All of those would probably be tolerable, but he gets judged by fans and media like he’s an all star scoring option whose speciality is defending smaller much faster guards. So he’s constantly taking heat for underperforming expectations that were based on what Leon was willing to pay for him (which of course he had nothing to do with).
I also don’t think he’s as close to Brunson and Hart as they are to each other. That’s not exactly an enticing situation.
This really seems like one of those situations where you don’t need to default to the max. A two year exension would seem to serve all parties well. It gives Bridges extra security and lets him enter free agency at a very good age. I might even be willing to make the second year a player option if it’s necessary.
Drop defense relies heavily on two things: a rim protecting big and strong point of attack defense. We have neither. Mikal is often tasked with playing POA defense, and he is not very good at it. In other words, he is a poor fit for the coach’s scheme.
Why you’d want to double down on that, I don’t really understand.
is mitch not a rim protecting big
The irony is that Deuce is the POA defender Mikal gets maligned for not being, but Thibs won’t play Deuce with Brunson because Two Small Guard Bad
Mitch IS a rim protecting big, for like 20 minutes per game. We’re pretty good defensively when he’s out there.
It’s the vast majority of the time when he’s not playing that’s the problem.
man i love how we look when mitch is out there especially with deuce or delon we are downright fun to watch for those minutes most of the time
And I maintain that it’s pretty important we keep Mitch in that 20 mpg role off the bench. He’s not the answer to our starting lineup, and as long as we have Deuce and Mitch on the bench it’s pretty easy to surround them with vet min guys and have a decent second unit.
Jonathan Kuminga is a bad idea, right?
we can probably do better
Hubs, I keep thinking if we’re keeping the band together with Thibs and we’re only able to add one new player with the mid-level (assuming we can retain Shamet and Delon with vet minimums), then the move might be to use that mid-level on another big so we can start Mitch, have a back up center who is better/more experienced than Huk and recreated the Mitch/iHart full rim protection all game Thibs special with KAT now permanently at the 4 (with the option to play him at the 5 for short stints in games).
It’s either that or a stretch 4 off the bench who is very good at defense that you can play with KAT at the 5 when Mitch sits.
On the brightside, the Mets are still killing it.
Now that Jalen has a subpar series by his standard, Francisco Lindor is the new king of New York.
The King is Dead, Long Live the King!
Judge is and always will be the king of NY until he retires.
How do you feel about low BBIQ chuckers?
Not with that postseason performance history. Him and Dave Winfield can be Mr. May. Lindor is like Reggie, a Mr. October.
Since the Mets have won zero World Series since 1986, I’m gonna hold off on the Mr. October talk.
It was nice beating the Dodgers in a game started by our #8 starter though. Even nicer that he threw five scoreless and struck out Ohtani twice.
Ryan Yarbrough beat Yamamoto Sunday night, I was pleasantly surprised to say the least. I read a stat that said since I believe May 3rd Dodgers have the 3rd worst ERA in baseball, their pitching staff right now is depleted.
Aaron Judge probably has 85%+ name recognition in New York. Lindor might generously be at 25%, behind Juan Soto, whose is higher because he used to play for the Yankees.
He’s being asked to do this because it has been his primary defensive role for the entirety of his NBA career. I mean, what do you think his best role is? Guarding big wings? Mikal is too skinny for that and we have OG anyway, who is much, much better at it.
The Mikal contract situation just kind of sucks, at least as of now. Giving the player we saw this season that extension makes me cringe, but we also positively cannot afford to lose him for nothing and it’s very hard for me to imagine a trade involving him that makes us better. This is because the hypothetical Mikal Bridges is still exactly the kind of player we need.
I guess I’m rooting for us not extending him, him playing much, much better, and then us re-signing him after that happens. Either that or a trade I truly can’t envision right now.
FWIW, I do agree with pt that his contract will probably never be a problem because his archetype is movable at the drop of a hat. We just thought we were getting the 100th percentile of the archetype and instead got something both worse and weirder.
I’m going to provide a bit of a hot take. While I was mostly being cheeky earlier with my Hukaholic commentary, I actually do think he can be at least a partial solution to some of our concerns.
Before he got hurt he was actually making it into the Thibs Circle of Trust because he was a hard-working rim protector who could set teeth-rattling screens and had some decent-looking offensive prowess, at least within five feet of the rim.
If you started Mitch and gave him say 24 minutes, you could back him up with Huk with 15 or so minutes, play either when KAT sits, and (ha!) play five-out for a bit with KAT at center now and again and both big guys getting a rest.
Dependent on Huk actually being the guy I thought I saw there for a bit. But I don’t remember seeing much in the way of the biggest danger, which is constant early career defensive errors.
I have a strange sense of calm about the Mets. I feel very secure in the knowledge that a Pete Crow-Armstrong for two months of Javy Baez trade is not going to be happening for the foreseeable future.
Much has been said about the Mets’ pitching lab, and they have done an amazing job, but many other major league teams have similar pitching labs. It’s just a case of the Mets modernizing, getting with the times and using analytics the same way the other smart teams use them.
It’s very strange to be able to say that we are one of the “smart” teams, but it’s getting pretty undeniable at this point.
I think more New Yorkers are familiar with Lindor Chocolates than the Lindor the Met. I’m pretty sure if you gave the names Judge, Ruth, Ewing, Namath, and Lindor, and asked for first names, you’d get Aaron, Babe, Patrick, Joe, and uhhh. (Just confirmed this with my wife, for anecdotal sake.)
I’m glad the Mets are doing well. I’m also glad they signed Soto, who is great, but way too expensive for what he provides. The Yanks needed more good players, not two great players and dreck, and that’s worked out.
I think that people who don’t follow the Yanks don’t realize just how amazing Aaron Judge to is, though. If he continues this for a year it will be the greatest single season since, well, last year, but before that, Babe Ruth. (I don’t count the PED cheaters.) If he keeps it up for another few years, he really will show that he’s the best player since Ruth. That’s wild.
Of course, huge asterisk due to his post-season play. With luck he’ll be able to change that narrative soon.
Now back to your regularly scheduled Mikal work…
Edit: guess I should say “that’s worked out SO FAR” lol
We might not have to bring the whole band back.
This particular imbalance has always driven me nuts:
1 Brunson
2 Hart, Bridges, McBride
3 Anunoby
4
5 Towns, Robinson
And it just so happens the three 2s are the easiest guys to trade.
if you are going to put it that way hubert then please please please please please let it be mikal out the door that is so easy for me
Judge and Otani are giant people with incredible posture. Also, perhaps unrelated, two of the best baseball players ever.
Final comment (for now) on the center conversation. I want to acknowledge how great it was seeing Mitch get so totally revved up during the playoffs when he did something good. Nice to see real outbursts of positive emotion as compared to deadpan OG (who did, on occasion, act out, to his credit) or the weird emoji faces from Mikal.
Hubie, hasn’t Bridges played SF for most of his career? I’d certainly trust him more to guard Jaylen Brown than, say, Donovan Mitchell.
E isn’t wrong when he says Wingstop is duplicative.
Not me. An everyday player is not responsible for his pitching staff getting shelled by the Dodgers lineup.
Part of the recognition includes this.
adding in the salaries for those 3 shooting guards and deuce and josh may provide more value than mikal at his number…
Tim Bontemps mentioned that Al Horford could be a nice addition to the Knicks bench if he was willing to sign here, said that he has a great relationship with KAT since they’ve apparently played together representing DR.
mikal has played for phoenix 10 sg 75 sf 15 pf for nets 1 pg 41 sg 42 sf 15 pf 1c for us 2 sg 83 sf 16 pf for career 15 sg 70 sf 15 pf
There’s also the inidication that PCA’s swing rates and overall approach aren’t sustainable and that he won’t continue to be a 146 OPS+ level hitter and more like a 100-100+ OPS level hitter–which is still very valuable but not as catastrophic as it seems right now.
We’re top 3 right now IMHO, when you combine the owner’s wealth, Stearns’ status as a proven genius, and the organization’s modernized structure. Dodgers and Yankees are the only other competition on that front.
Its hilarious to me seeing a Mets fan trying to downgrade and insult the best player on the Yankees…
68
I’d be pretty excited to get Horford next season for 15-20mpg
There’s plenty of ways to dress it up
1 Brunson
2 Hart, McBride
3 Anunoby, Bridges
4
5 Towns, Robinson
1 Brunson
2 McBride
3 Anunoby, Bridges, Hart
4
5 Towns, Robinson
The imbalance is still the same.
Mikal sign and trade to Minny for Randle and DDV?
Lol fair enough, Ohtani would be the real Babe comp if he could stay healthy. I worry his insistence on pitching will mean more lost years due to injury, but we shall see.
Horford is OLD but I guess off the bench for 15 to 20 a game he’d be pretty good. He would definitely help with the ball movement and bball IQ of the team.
Yeah rama I never considered him an option but he would probably be a great addition for the Knicks especially in a reduced role. Hell he could probably even start alongside KAT.
I’m not trying to do anything. I am just presenting the well-known fact that Judge’s status has taken a serious hit (even among his team’s own fans) for his abysmal playoff performances. Imagine if a Mets player had that level of postseason ineptitude, it would be LOLMets. Somehow, Judge is exempt because he’s a Yankee MVP?
Judge is by far the best baseball player on the planet and perhaps even the best baseball player this century so yeah to me he’s exempt. His postseason failure last year hasn’t exactly carried over to this year.
Casual baseball fan friend of mine asked me if Ohtani is the best baseball player ever. I replied that he’s not even the best baseball player right now. The best baseball player on the planet is Aaron Judge.
This is not actually a fact, it’s just you trolling.
Yes, Aaron Judge can do just about everything…except perform in the playoffs. And that’s why he isn’t king in NYC no matter how much Yankees fans worship his regular season accomplishments. NYC fans forgive mediocrity in the regular season if you produce in the postseason (look no further than Eli Manning) but they do not forgive playoff ineptitude so easily (look at Dave Winfield).
The imbalance is there because, contrary to the sell, OG can’t in fact cover 1-5. That’s not his fault; it’s the fault instead of Leon, Leon fils, and the fanboys. There are certainly players and sets OG can guard very well and he’s a worthy and representative player, though one whose acquisition and maintenance cost was too high.
Mikal, OTOH, can’t guard really anybody.
Yeah, Mikal isn’t worth anything close to that.
judge postseason failure could not have carried over into this year yet because it is not the postseason yet
hubie no matter how you slice it mikal is almost assuredly the weakest link
mikal for ddv straight up who says no
Imagine if a Mets player had that level of postseason ineptitude, it would be LOLMets
Actually no one outside of a Met fan would care.
Um….
Still not a fact. Not in NY, not in America, not in the world. Aaron Judge’s status is as high as ever, with good reason.
Then take it up with Judge because he disagrees.
correct it is so clearly an opinion whether one agrees with it or not
You have it backwards. No one around MLB cares when the Mets succeed. They downplay it. But when the Mets fail its a LOLMets moment like in 2007.
They’re a lot like the Knicks in this regard.
You’re right — it’s clearly an opinion, whether one agrees with it or not.
We can debate whether Judge’s postseason performance should diminish his status — and many here are doing exactly that. But what’s not up for debate is the fact that his standing has taken a hit in the eyes of much of the baseball fandom. That’s just observable reality which Judge himself observed during the last playoffs.
Yes Judge immediately after Game 5 was pretty down after losing the World Series. BTW in that game he went 2 for 3 with a HR and double plus also walked twice.
The Mets have done more than enough dumb shit over the last 40 years to have fully earned the label LOLMets. I’m still stunned every day when I look at the boxscore and the minor league results and I see across the board competence.
Signed,
Mets fan
I cannot think of anything more forced than trying to bestow the Mr. October moniker onto a player who has not so much as played in a World Series in New York. Ya can’t just say things!
Judge had an .836 OPS in the World Series, by the way. That alone makes him more deserving of the moniker than Lindor (neither are deserving of it).
Judge has absolutely struggled in the playoffs. It’s undoubtedly something he’ll have to hear about until he wins the whole damn thing, and deservedly so. He also has an extensive playoff history, including a .421/.500/.947 run in 2018, because he’s one of the very few MLB players, ever, who puts his team in a good position to make the playoffs on his own.
Just compared Ohtani to Judge. Admittedly Judge has played about 150 games more, but he rules on pretty much everything but stolen bases. Oh, also not championships…
Baseball story. Little Raven complained yesterday about why ceremonial first pitch VIPs can’t make it to home plate, much less throw a strike. So I dragged him out to a nearby field, marked out about 60 feet, and had us throw at each other without warmups, and then with warmups. Yup, as I suspected, harder than you think.
Mets are gonna have a tough time with Skubal, Mize, and the rest of the Tigers’ (*) starters in the World Series.
(*) Your MLB team with the best record in MLB since last August 10.
Saw some article somewhere which made the case that Aaron Judge is the best righthanded hitter of all time.
And he might be the second best player in the league. Which is totally insane.
You have to appreciate his greatness.
Get used to it.
For the record, I have zero animus towards the Mets. They’re well-run and I like a lot of the players on the team.
Trying to pretend Francisco Lindor is a higher status New York athlete than Aaron Judge is too obviously forced and stupid to even constitute good trolling, though.
This is a pedantic point. Judge had a World Series OPS because he played in the AL and faced the Dodgers later than the Mets.
And we all know how bad Judge was in that series.
Well, you guys did take the bait so…
What’s Francisco “Mr. October” Lindor’s career World Series OPS with the Mets?
Don’t know. But I do know he has less errors that led to soulcrushing losses than Judge has. LOL
Good point, the 2007 Mets were pretty hilarious. It was like watching the Knicks blow the Game 1 lead over three weeks instead of three minutes.
Dude, it was devastating. Even worse than what happened to the Knicks. We didn’t just choke a game, we choked away a 162 game season up 7 games with just 13 left to play. It wasn’t one bad night, it was an entire two weeks of slowly running into an iceberg like the Titanic while the captain and his crew did nothing to avert course.
Mets even took Clay Holmes and turned him into a starter that the Yankees wished they had. Its a brand new day thanks to Uncle Stevie’s pocketbooks, Stearns’ genius, and the work of our pitching lab.
I’ve seen Judge play exactly 5 games in my whole life, he was 1-20 and dropped a routine fly ball that allowed a dozen or so runs to score. The eye test suggests he may be the worst player ever. Stats shmats.
I’ll take Fried and Rodon over Holmes thank you very much. I’ll even take Schmidt over him too.
And now the Mets have Mauricio, who was hitting a pedestrian .515 in AAA before being called up.
Needling Ras aside I actually enjoy watching Mets games. If the Yankees aren’t playing I check to see if the Mets are. Love listening to Gary, Keith and Ron broadcasting games.
I grew up in Astoria during the mid to late 80s so as a little kid I only knew the Mets as winners. Thankfully though my parents were huge Yankee fans so I followed their lead and didn’t let the 1986 World Series change my allegiances.
There are reasons people are questiion Thibs’s coaching
how about deuce mitch kat og jb net rating that is the lineup we want
Mikal Bridges played over 3,700 minutes.
Josh Hart played over 3,500 minutes.
Doesn’t leave a lot of room for experimentation when you treat those guys like MJ and Scottie.
100%
1. Make a decision.
Can we win a title with Towns/Brunson sharing the court together a lot of the time?
If NO, try to trade one of them for a star player that fits better (most likely Towns)
If YES, how?
Since the defense will always be suspect with those two, we have to maximize the offense. That means replacing Hart in the starting lineup with a player that provides most of what Hart provides but that can hit 3s often enough to make putting a C on him a punishable idea.
You can do that with at SG or PF.
I have been making the case for a long time that a PF is better because OG and Mikal are not rebounders – which is partly why Hart plays so much to begin with. If we could find a stretch 3&D PF, that would be perfect, but if not a SG would have to do.
The key idea here is NOT to trade OG or Mikal.
The idea is to get Hart to the bench and add an upgrade to the starting lineup that maximizes space and offense.
The Mets broadcast is amazing. Top notch. It’s jarring when I’m forced to watch the broadcast feed of an opposing team.
For me, a baseball geek who has been poring over lines of statistics since getting my first baseball encyclopedia when I was 10, this season and this iteration of the team is like heaven. It’s not a perfect team, it has some holes, and the postseason isn’t even a guarantee considering how top heavy the NL is this year, but just about every move Stearns makes is hard to disagree with. The Mets have eight viable major league starters, plus good SP prospects in the high minors in McLean, Tong, Tidwell and Sproat (who has been bad this year unfortunately) plus Christian Scott returning from TJS next year. It’s an incredible amount of starting pitching depth.
They didn’t bail on Brett Baty when he was struggling, instead they did a lot of work to fix him and now he looks like a major league 3B. They have built a good major league team while holding onto all of their prospects. After years of bad drafting and gutting their minor league system with foolish trades, they have a respectable minor league system. Every decision Stearns makes is sound.
Process doesn’t always equal results, but their process has been stellar. No notes from me. Insanely fun team to root for right now. No need to be a troll about it.
It’s very easy to believe, because Thibs uses Josh as a forward and Deuce as a guard.
Deuce replaces Jalen or Mikal, Josh is in there to rebound.
Something to toss around.
I’m not advocating anything because I love Mitch. I’m just pointing out that we have a shortage of tradeable assets. However, Mitch’s trade value is probably as high as it’s going get right now and we may have to extend him soon.
A team like the Lakers is desperate for a player just like Mitch. They have surplus scoring and I can’t think of a more perfect fit for them. Luka would be lobbing to him regularly and he’d solve the defensive issues.
Maybe we can squeeze them for a deal where we get two very useful players or a very good player or a bench player and a medicore 1st rounder for Mitch.
You’re just stating the rigidity, DRed, not making it make sense.
Agreed. Success is the best troll. We got Clay Holmes for 3 years 38 million and Canning for 1 year at $4,250,000 . You look at the overpayment for starting pitchers for teams that have higher staff ERAs and its amazing how good Sterns was in free agency last offseason.
they do different stuff, Josh is essentially a big because OG and Mikal are relatively shit rebounders. Playing the starters with Deuce instead of Josh gives you a lineup with 2 guys who can’t play defense and a team that can’t get defensive rebounds.
Minny does. DDV is a better player at a lower salary
This is dumb.
Know who else couldn’t get defensive rebounds? The 2017 and 2018 Golden State Warriors, who ranked 29th and 25th in DRB%.
We’d be thermonuclear on offense and better at everything else defensively than the starters we played for a billion minutes this year. To have never even tried this as a head coach is disqualifying.
Thibs out
Holy shit.
Hmm. Well then.
I thought there would be no way they’d fire the guy. Things just got real spicy.
Wow. I didn’t expect it but this is the first promising sign since the Bridges catastrophe. Leon gets it — we were never going to win a chip with Old Man Coffee.
I still think there’s a nonzero chance that a non-dinosaur coach could be the Kerr to Thibs’ Jackson.
Thibs out per Begley!
Right move. But I’m a little sad. But excited. But sad.
Thibs values rebounding the most. He finally change the starters in game 3 vs Indiana . Deuce needed more time with the starters, but he doesn’t bring what the coach values most.
I’m gonna miss that Thibs dancing video…
https://cancelx.com/shamscharania/status/1929971273049772279?s=42
I mean, it’s the most logical thing. It’s hard to make wholesale changes to the roster, and Thibs just wasn’t the guy who was going to get the most out of KAT, Mikal, or the offense in general. I’m still stunned Leon did it.
And I have no idea who the obvious choice is. Malone is basically a Thibs clone, albeit maybe less rigid? (It would hard to be more rigid.) Is Leon gonna try to lure Jay Wright, and would that be a catastrophe? Or would this be the time for him to take a huge gamble and hire whoever the hot young assistant is?
I wonder if they did it quickly to keep Johnny Bryant in the mix. None of the recently fired guys are too attractive.
Holy cow. Agree with Noble – I’m not happy about it, even though I believe it was necessary.
I expect this means lots of other options are on the table, too…Leon isn’t screwing around.
OG is elite covering 2-4, been very effective against PGs and can cover Cs as a change of pace in short stints.
Siakam has been the only real exception to players he can cover and a lot of his shots were turnaround midrange jumpers.
Wow, respect to Leon for this move.
Wild. I thought he needed to go, but after an ECF appearance I wasn’t convinced he would. He’s been fairly aggressive in trying to improve the team overall.
It’s good to know Leon isn’t just sticking with his guy.
Tempted to see Mikal under another coach.
Malone please.
Leon would not have made this bold of a move so quickly after elimination if he didn’t already have a replacement in mind.
Wow. Can’t believe they actually pulled the trigger.
Edit: ras, you are probably right.
DAMN!
So I’ve been a lot more pro Thibs than others and it scares me bc Thibs baseline is good team. He also just coached us to the ECF.
BUT, it does show that Leon knows there are issues on offense that Thibs is not capable of fixing. It also says “no one is untouchable” which is a good sign in many ways.
Excited/nervous for what is next. Just as long as it’s not Rick Brunson getting promoted.
“Why Michael Jordan’s playoff results hurts his legacy.” by ras on July 3rd, 1990
“It’s a fact that Jordan’s legacy has taken a hit due to his inability to win a conference finals…”
Based on common sense and Rose’s usual approach, my guess is that he’s been quietly preparing a contingency plan to replace Thibs for some time.
What surprises me is that the Knicks front office seems to have shared our critical view of Thibs’ coaching — and wasn’t afraid to make a move despite the goodwill from reaching the Eastern Conference Finals.
This move takes guts. It suggests Leon either has real job security or is ready to take full accountability with the target now squarely on his back.
Aaron Judge’s most memorable postseason moment was dropping a catch that a little league outfielder makes 9/10.
Ras, read the room and read the date. Or better yet, go to your mets blog.
Not sure why you chose a Knicks blog to troll the Yankees.
Oh I don’t know, the cognitive dissonance of Thibs Got Fired alongside Judge Sucks kind of cancel each other out…
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