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107 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.06.01)”
Happy Offseason! 🙁
The Katz/Edwards piece in The Athletic sums it up nicely, I think. Thibs having the support of Brunson and Leon; plus the idea that the rest of the EC teams will have to make sacrifices; and, I would imagine, optimism that this group can gel/communicate better will lead to Thibs being the HC at the beginning of next season. Not that I agree.
I hope Hart shoots thousands and thousands of practice threes this offseason.
This has been a year of dialectics.
Thibs did so much excellent coaching and Thibs did a lot of terrible coaching.
KAT was great and KAT was awful.
Leon deserves credit and Leon deserves blame.
We overachieved by making the ECF and we underachieved against a Pacers team we were favored to beat.
As such you can make a solid case for pretty much anything next year.
Almost anything.
Mikal Bridges was not what we needed. Extending him would be a mistake.
Extending KAT is a mistake waiting to happen, too. He is eligible, he will want more years, and he is as close to Leon as you can be. We need to hold off on that.
As much as I was rooting against it, there would have been a fun ironic narrative to the season if the Knicks had made the finals with a team that nobody here really seemed to even like rooting for that much. (Would have been like Scorsese winning his Oscar for the Departed… after all the years this is the one that wins prize??)
Oh, well. We dug ourselves too big a hole with the Game 1 meltdown. Nothing to be done. Let’s hope we can build on this year.
I do not expect Leon to just run it back, especially if — as I expect to be the case — Thibs returns as coach. There is some kind of significant problem in the locker room, and reading between the lines, it sure sounds like Mikal is the problem. So if nothing else, I would guess Mikal is flipped for a piece whom we hope will be a better fit. (Of course, we gave up all that draft capital because he seemed like the perfect fit.)
We definitely need more depth. Whether Mikal stays or goes, we need another starter who can return Hart full-time to his destiny as a supersub. We need to decide if KAT can stay at center most of the time — and, if not, whether Mitch can be trusted to start alongside him in a twin towers model. (The simpler fit is a Jaren Jackson type at PF, but those guys are rare and way more expensive than we can afford with our available assets and cap sheet.)
Also, I will now be rooting for SGA to annihilate the Pacers. Eff Hali.
Yeah, Pacers getting swept is what I am living for right now.
Still a muddle of emotions. Going to take a while to sort things out.
The problem is the Pacers have five very useful rotation guys who all make less than our 5th most expensive player (Hart at 19 mil). Those five guys (Nembhart, Toppin, Nesmith, McConnell, Mathurin) make 62 mil combined compared to just Mikal and OG who make 65 mil combined. In short, Indy is using a post-apron approach while Leon is still trying to build a 2000s Superteam.
Nice stat from Tommy B about OG
https://xcancel.com/tommybeer/status/1929189773488386223?s=46&t=0wqff4cNt-sCGcDs-uMExw
This team was failed by its head coach. Let’s take it back to the offseason.
When Towns was acquired his defensive issues were well documented, but the thought was this would be an elite offense. This offense fell off in January and it never got fixed. You can’t play Towns at the 5 if you’re going to play him next to Josh Hart. The Knicks never ran 5 out lineups to the benefit on having Towns at 5.
The Knicks bench was never fully utilized during the season, so now you get into the playoffs and the coach is scrambling for something that works. Plenty of time was available to work out some kinks in March
The man had a fully healthy roster in the playoffs and failed. In the Pacers series to many times did he allow the Pacers to just go on runs and bring the same lineup back out that wasn’t working. He reads the game at to slow of a pace to be a coach a team can rely on. Its the playoffs he needs to react much faster. If Kat is failing in drop coverage
take him out and go with more Mitch. Try and get some stops. What was he bring saved for? Way to much Josh Hart in the series who was awful. Give me Shamet over Hart with the other 4 starters if he thinks Deuce is to small. The season is over and after 100 games the Knicks don’t have an identity. Are they are an offensive team or a defensive team? I know the Pacers are an offensive team, the Thunder make a living on defense. The Knicks…
Pacers are 12-4 in the playoffs, they didn’t even have to even sweat much during their romp through the east. I get underestimating them last month, but if you think the Knicks “beat themselves”, you also probably think OJ was framed and that Bill Clinton didn’t have sexual relations with that woman, miss Lewinsky.
The Knicks were a collapse and lucky bounce from winning 3 games in this series so while Indy played great the Knicks shot themselves in foot multiple ways
It also doesn’t help that Thibs has lost to the same coach in back to back years. If Rick is his kryptonite it’s more reason to look elsewhere
These are some things Leon can consider to try to make us better next year (how is another matter):
1. Change coaches (very unlikely) or Thibs has to worry less about regular season wins/losses and instead use his bench more, develop the young players, and become more flexible with lineups. We want a fresher, more flexible and prepared team at the end of the season instead of experimenting with lineups in the playoffs and being worried about being run off the court and exhausted by fast teams like the Pacers because we have an unprepared bench.
2. Find a legit PF that can shoot 3s. OG is a terrific two-way player, but one thing he’s not is a good rebounder at the PF position. That’s one of the reasons Hart gets so many minutes. Hart is a plus rebounder and helps make up for the below average rebounding of OG and Bridges. For example, Siakam is a tough cover for anyone (even Draymond said he’s one of the toughest in the NBA), but we had an especially tough time with him.
3. Find a 3&D+ SG to replace Hart in the starting lineup. If it’s not going to be Deuce (he clearly should have been given a chance by Thibs), he should be similar to Deuce. We want someone to defend those fast POA PGs. We also need to play 5 out to maximize the offense and Towns. Hart is also too prone to costly mistakes, not as good a defender as I thought and hurts the spacing and specifically Towns. He’d be better utilized off the bench as an energy player.
4. I have mixed feelings about the Mitch/Towns combo. I think it helps defensively and Mitch adds so much to the offense with extra possessions, it probably doesn’t hurt that much overall on offense, but I think it hurts Towns on offense and is a problem against some matchups. I love Mitch and he clearly has a role here, but I’m not so sure he’s the solution to defensive problems we have with Towns/Brunson. He could be a valuable asset in a trade.
5. Possibly consider trading Towns because the defensive issues with him and Brunson will be too tough to mitigate and win a championship.
6. I know a lot of people are down on Bridges, but I’m not one of them. Leon dramatically overpaid and badly hurt our flexibility to address these other issues, but IMO Mikal was not used properly on defense (he’s not a POA defender against small guards) but he is good enough to be a starter on championship caliber team. He would also still be good trade asset.
7. Add some quality depth to the bench. I’d keep most of what we have. I like Shamet, Wright, Mitch, Deuce and even Payne, but I think a few of those guys are borderline 3rd string and not 2nd string players.
We obviously can’t do all those things, but I think that’s a fairly good summary of what the issues are and places where we should focus to take another step up.
Payne can go. I think Wright and Shamet are useful guys for spot minutes
Worst part about last night’s game is getting a call right around when things started to get ugly that some dude was fucking a mail slot at one of my employee’s home. Which meant having to drive across town thinking jab jab cross. Apparently he’s a mail slot fucker and in is famous in these parts for doing so. What a shame about this team. I think the chemistry issue is fully on Leon and to a smaller extent Thibs. Running this thing back without a significant change (trade KAT right meow) will be disastrous for the chemistry around here. KAT is not how you win championships.
Yea good luck
The Nielsen family certainly can’t count on my viewership over the next two weeks!
Good season but something feels off and it will be very interesting to see how the team decides to change itself.
Although disappointing to lose against a team that finished behind us in the standings, let’s appreciate for a moment what the team has achieved. We are likely to keep most of the team together, and compete again next year, but you never know. Dallas and Phoenix reached the finals recently only to remake their roster with bold moves that did not work out. Sometimes, it is an injury that derails your team’s hopes. Even if flawed, our players and coaching staff gave their all, and they should receive our applause for it.
Various thoughts:
I can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a mail slot.
What kind of mail slots do you have that would enable/encourage sex?
If someone were fucking my mail slot, I’m pretty sure my actual boss would be way down the list of people I might call.
Dealing with a mail slot fucker is probably a better way to deal with things going south last night, not a worst way.
Since you’re clearly still living in the 1980s what with mail slots, I’d recommend using a big phone book rather than a jab jab cross.
We all have our superstitions, right?
The Knicks have been a miserable franchise ever since… well, whenever I started posting here the Knicks got worse and worse. The less I posted, the better they seemed to get. IT WAS ALL MY FAULT!
So maybe, just maybe, if I stopped posting all together, the curse would get lifted?
So I stopped posting. I resisted every urge to come here and complain, express hope or despair. I resisted.
And then last night. Well, it didn’t help. So it wasn’t me.
—————————
There’s so much to say after months and months of staying away. But I’ll keep it short. I haven’t read any opinions yet. I will but I want my opinions pure today.
My Knick fandom started late. I was 14 years old. That was the 1972-1973 season. I got to experience the joy of a championship and I was spoiled. It was so easy. Now I’m almost 67 and I haven’t seen another championship yet.
But this team is close. It’s closer than it’s been for decades. I remember a lot of bad but this team is built the right way. It has the right coach. The Knicks ended exactly where they should have with their talent. There are many steps needed to get from pathetic to decent to good to excellent and finally to be the best. We’re almost there. I was hopeful, nothing more.
OKC is better and damn it, I hate saying it, but Indiana was also a better team. The Knicks had a chance. I never thought it was great, but it’s the first time I really felt that way in a very long time. Indiana won with tenacious defense and by blanketing our best player. They took Brunson out of the game and that was game over.
What does this team need now? They need a #1 player. We know that Brunson is the point guard we need. He can take over a game but he’s the only one that can. KAT can’t. OG, Bridges and Hart can’t. They’re all very good support.
Can they be? KAT has to learn how to play perimeter defense and how to stay out of foul trouble. Bridges needs to become lethal from 3pt range like he was once upon a time. Mitch has to become a 75% free throw shooter. Or, we trade some of them and get a complete player to play along side Brunson. While I would hope these players could improve, the trade route seems possible.
What about the coach? Is he good enough? I think so. He’s only led the team deeper and deeper into the playoffs. He knows what he’s doing. The Knicks were the best conditioned team in the NBA. They were 100% healthy. Was he outcoached? No. I don’t think so. I think that Carlisle had more to work with. I any coach perfect? No. But who is better that is available? This is the guy.
And what about that depth? Is it really there? Deuce, Precious, Payne, Shamet, Wright? Is that a good bench? It could be stronger. What about the kids? Dadiet, McCullers, Kolek and Hukporti? What about them? Well, we ain’t got a lot of picks coming up so they’re almost it. But I think there’s a gem or two in that bunch.
Most important, what about Leon Rose? Of him I have no doubts. He’s the man. He knows what he’s doing. So what do I think should happen? I think Leon gets to decide. I’ll trust whatever he does, with full faith that he knows better than me. The Knicks are one of 5 teams over the 1st apron. 3 of those teams are over the 2nd apron. The NBA is about talent but it’s also about managing a budget. It’ll be an interesting off-season for sure.
Oh, and for the record, I do believe the Knicks will win the championship again in my lifetime. But I’m officially old. So time is running short.
i think mikal thinks a little bit too much of himself for the ironman streak while it is a nice perk that we can count on him to not miss games because of injury i think that he would get a lot more accolades if he would miss 6-10 games per season and average 4-6 more points per game by going into the paint on occasion history will not treat him kindly but it still can
I will post my complete thoughts tomorrow. On the weekends I usually can only post/read from my phones
But short thought. I do believe Thibs deserves one more chance next season and will get the opportunity to work on the issues that hurt us in this series. I think even with the limited space and picks we have Leon will have a chance to shore up the bench and the core 7 guys – Brunson, KAT, Mikal, OG, Mitch, Hart and Deuce – will all be back to give this another shot.
Hubert is right: “Dialectics” is exactly the right word for it.
It was the best of seasons, it was the worst of season. The most successful season in 25 years but also the most frustrating for me because of our inconsistency.
Worst part about last night’s game is getting a call right around when things started to get ugly that some dude was fucking a mail slot at one of my employee’s home. Which meant having to drive across town thinking jab jab cross. Apparently he’s a mail slot fucker and in is famous in these parts for doing so.
totally nailed the chalamet internal monologue as hali started to pepper that damn alpaca floater into kat’s pnr infinity drop
The problem with this group is philosophical. We have assembled a group headed by two ultra talented offensive players with extreme defensive liabilities and a coach who wants to play iso ball and defense.
If they are going to keep KAT, they need to play to his and Brunson’s strengths. They need a Doug Moe offense with a lot of cutting and ball movement freeing up these two 40% high volume 3 point shooters who can both go to the basket efficiently.
They also can’t play the top 5 between 35 and 37.6 mpg 82 games and get great effort on defense. Thibs likes to play 8 and trust 6.5 while the two best teams play 10 and trust 11. We cannot compete with that freneticism.
If moving KAT is also in play and they should look at the dumbest owner in the game and call Sacramento.
Get this level of softness off the team
Our beloved Knicks accomplished more this year than they have in a quarter century. I do not believe we need to make any particular change, but the FO should be open to changes. There may be good trades for KAT, OG, Deuce, Bridges or Mitch. I cannot imagine the Knicks discussing a Brunson trade.
I think the Thibs will be given the off season opportunity to come up with a scheme that maximizes the roster.
“Mail slot fucker” is crazy lmao
Brunson looked completely blown up the last three games. I’ve never seen him so red in the face. I think he was overloaded from the mental and physical workload of attacking Indiana’s full court pressure on his own. And I think that overload contributed to all those turnovers in those games. Decision-making is affected at that level of exertion.
We need more secondary playmaking on the floor with Brunson to lighten the cognitive load when he’s out there. Giving him more time to sit with KAT + defenders out there isn’t enough if he’s immediately back into the frying pan when he checks in.
You guys remember all those neat Curry-esque off-ball sets we ran last year where Brunson would run through a gamut of screens and relocate for open catch & shoot threes? They kept him fresh and our offense varied. Turns out Hartenstein’s passing was the key.
Brunson is a deadly off-ball player and we need that dimension of our offense back again. Whether it’s a capable ballhandler or a high post playmaker, Brunson needs the help.
7th ward is lost in time Raven. A little heat wave wibble wobble and wrought iron starts looking sultry.
Sign CP3 , he is Leon’s buddy
Wouldn’t mind having Sabonis & DiVincenzo next season if i can’t have the Athenian Freak
I don’t know why you guys think Leon is so eager to keep Thibs when the coach keeps making him look bad.
Leon didn’t give up 5 1sts to have Mikal Bridges stand in the corner. And he didn’t trade for KAT to be used in drop coverage all year without ever playing 5 out. The front office had a vision and Thibs refused to execute it.
Mikal is the third player in three season to publicly complain about the coach and his role in the offense. Leon got rid of Obi and Grimes for Thibs and now both those players look pretty good elsewhere. You think Leon’s happy about having to consider doing that with Mikal now?
Also Leon used a roster spot on a coach to fix the locker room. That’s the biggest vote of no confidence you’ll ever see.
Leon might like a guy to come in here and make his acquisitions look good instead of rededi
Btw, if anyone hasn’t read the Katz/Edwards piece, it should be required reading: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/6395011/2025/05/31/knicks-loss-pacers-nba-playoffs-brunson-towns/
Given all the issues laid out here, it’s amazing we were two wins away from the Finals.
And now I’m starting to wonder if KAT might wind up the odd man out, rather than Mikal.
My bet on the Pacers to win the chip will pay $44,800 if it wins so I’m going to watch every second and you can call me Hubie Pacers Fan, Donnie’s distant cousin.
I think some of you are reading way too much in between the lines looking for some kind of locker room dissent.
Just read a hilarious fact, in the summer of 2022 the Pacers signed Deandre Ayton to a 4 yr 133m offer sheet but luckily for them Phoenix matched it.
I honestly don’t know whether I should feel relieved or be highly upset. Err..PTFO lol
That series was so stressful. So many things were way off kilter. This postseason was a huge challenge for us with the way officials were letting teams be overly physical with us and get away with clear fouls. Still though- respect to Indy. They pulled it off. I think this postseason was Hali’s real coming out party. I wish them luck against OKC. But it feels like they’re diving headlong into a woodchipper with the way OKC has been playing.
So..are we gonna change coaches? Or do we think the FO thinks Thibs did a great job? After all, he led the team to back to back 50 burgers and to the ECF. Does Leon have the stones to make him add a coach to get more out of the offense? Hell, does he have the stones to let him go? Also..what do we do with KAT? Keep him at C? PF? Trade? Also- do we bring one of Wright and Shamet back? I think we should, and it should be Wright as we can find cheap shooters easy.
Should be an interesting offseason
I’m pretty sure Leon/Thibs are not thinking about moving Brunson or KAT but rather want to add to that duo. Both of those guys had their best seasons under Thibs, and we just surpassed either of those Wolves/Knicks seasons! My guess is that the F.O. sees 2024/25 as a successful season albeit one we should build upon.
The easiest solution would be to trade Mikal for multiple players who could fit various needs, even though his value probably isn’t at a high point. Those needs are clearly a 3andD big and wing… something like Keon Ellis and Keegan Murray, to use Sacto as an example, but that might be tough to get for Bridges, and would Leon even pull the trigger on a trade for lesser names?
A trade for a “third” star is possible, but we don’t have the draft ammo or cap space for one unless it’s the aging kind (Harden for example), so this seems unlikely.
So my guess is that, barring a Giannis trade, they will just run it back with a few more minimum signings and/or more rookie/sophomore minutes.
Sheesh, already seeing some crazy trade ideas out there:
Suns Recieve:
Karl Anthony Towns
Knicks Receive:
Giannis Antempkompo
Donte Divenezo
Timberwolves Receive:
Kevin Durant
Milwaukee Recieves:
Naz Reid
Mitch Robinson
Julius Randle
McBride
4 first round picks (via Knicks)
2 first round picks (via suns)
1 first round pick ( via Timberwolves)
5 second round picks
Yea ess..that one is beyond crazy. Why do people treat the Knicks like they are a thirsty dude in an IG model’s DM?
Where are these four first round picks from the Knicks supposed to come from? The 22nd century?
So Minny is trading Naz Reid, Donte, Randle, AND a first round pick for Kevin Durant? How does that make ANY sense?
I’ll say one thing for certain: I have no interest in Mikal Bridges’ next contract. His defense is vastly overrated and his offensive numbers speak for themselves. “Average NBA starter” is not something you should be paying a premium for, and as he enters his decline phase he’ll be hard pressed to even meet that average starter standard.
He’s a sunk cost, the draft picks are gone. Need to move on from that guy.
And the Suns are trading KD, but they’re also supposed to throw in 2 firsts? I like KAT, but not that much.
You don’t have to convince me. You have to convince Leon, Brunson and Dolan. One just extended Thibs. One doesn’t take questions about a coaching change seriously and one signs the checks for coaches.
That’s an excellent idea if he’ll come here on the cheap.
We’ll know very early whether Leon is actually serious about this job and winning because he’ll let us know by whether or not he extends Mikal.
I personally don’t think he is serious. I think he got the job by promising to use his connections to get Dolan his “superstars,” and to his (Leon’s) credit, he kinda sorta delivered with JB and KAT. OG’s also a direct connection and Leon even got to put some money in his kid’s pocket with that one.
Looked at this way, his use of draft picks as currency rather than running the risk of working hard, knowing the league, exploring all the players without regards to his “connection” to them, making tough decisions, risking a mistake isn’t as much a basketball “philosophy” but as a way to further his self-interest and please the mercurial idiot he works for.
In addition to things like the Incineration, dude traded away a lottery pick to clear a few million in cap space. Jalen Williams was available. Hard to recover from that. Doesn’t want to do the work.
My guess is that he’ll essentially run it back and talk about this and get his friends in the press to talk about this as a “core” with a multi-year “window” that was never intended as a one-year only thing. Worked for Dolan’s other GM, Chris Drury, who just got a contract extension even after his team basically quit on him.
I still think the core and the coach are really good, despite my pining for Dan Hurley. My thing is- Thibs has to change something, or go. Too much talent offensively to run an uninspiring offensive system. He’s already figured out how to make the defense work around KAT and Brunson, now that Mitch is upright. Assuming we get some level of growth out of Dadiet, McCullar, and Kolek, all Thibs theoretically would have to do is help himself by adding an offensive guru. Or alt least someone better at crafting one than the current staff is. If he won’t do that, then get me a coach that has a real plan on both sides of the ball. A coach like Hurley..or Lue. Or maybe sabotage Spo’s relationship with Riles the way Arison spoiled our relationship with Riley lol
I’m suggesting Leon might not need to be convinced bc he’s given Thibs a lot of good players that Thibs has made look bad by trying to jam round pegs into square holes, which in turn has made Leon look bad.
Maybe instead of continuing to get grief for Mikal Bridges, for instance, Leon might want to bring someone in who can install an offense that takes advantage of his skills so that trade doesn’t continue looking so terrible.
Terry Stotts would be a good offensive assistant for Thibs if we go that route.
D’Antoni used to resist bringing in a defensive assistant but he eventually relented. I’m not sure Thibs’s ego would allow for that.
That’s a good idea. Especially if he can do the same thing he did for Dallas 15 years ago. There are a few similarities between the teams. Defensive minded coach with a star PG and Big who lean towards offense- though Kidd was better defensively than Brunson even at that stage of his career. Also we have 2 rangy wings that can match Marion defensively and a Tyson Chandler-like guy in Mitch. There’s alot to like about the idea of a Stotts on staff if he still has it in him. Where’s he now? Golden State?
I’m not so sure about that.
It’s better than it was, but we got killed again last night because the Pacers hit 17-33 of 3 pointers. If they hit a more normal 12 we would have still been in the game. We hit 9-32 instead if a more normal 11-12.
When I watch a game I’m trying to enjoy it. I don’t sit there with noteapad in hand scouting and drawing up Xs and Os. But I suspect one main reason we are so terrible guarding against 3s despite having some good perimeter defenders is that they are often so busy covering up for Brunson and Towns it leaves someone else open. And when the opponent is hitting open 3s at a good rate, we get killed. That has to change.
That’s partly why I think this Brunson/Towns combo will always be a problem. If we are going to stick with that combo, those two have to work togther a LOT better. We have to find synergies and not have them take turns. I think that means mostly playing 5 out, using Mitch as the backup and playing selectively with Towns, replacing Hart in the starting lineup and figuring out how to rebound with that new player.
Nope, Thibs isn’t letting anybody tell him how to run offense or do anything. If Leon demands it I could see Thibs resigning.
Btw one of the low key worst Leon Rose moves was giving Indiana a valuable 6th man and key reserve for nothing.
I love that we’re so player and agent friendly here, especially if the player is CAA. Supposedly we’re going to benefit from all this generosity at some point.
I can’t imagine Pat Riley or the Celtics ever strengthening a rival to do a solid for an agent. (And correct me if I’m wrong but I’m pretty sure Obi’s agent is Leon’s son.)
Strikes me as baseless speculation. Thibs’ first staff here was an assembly of all star assistants.
I’m listening to the ringer’s nba podcast and they also noticed that the Knicks — with the notable exception of OG, who was awesome — looked like they packed their bags at halftime. Really left a shitty taste in my mouth. I can’t remember a Knicks team ever going out like that.
Speaking with the wife, who has become over time a rabid Knicks fan, today about the team. She had an interesting insight — a championship team has top talent, grit, depth and brain. Our Knicks had the 1st two, but lacking on the last two and especially the brain. Ton of grit and strong talent, but little brain. For depth Leon is going to have to improve the quality of the bench, and they need playing time. For Brain, if we are not going to replace Thibs, we need better playmaking and a really smart player in the locker room. That does have Chris Paul’s name written all over it – he’d be the smartest Knick on the court by far – but not sure if/how we could get him. Either way – we need to figure out how we improve the basketball IQ of our team … ideally that would be with a new coach, but if not, we need higher BB IQ players … less Cam Paynes pls
It was a largely Knicks optimistic pod btw that really stressed patience and running it back with the caveat that Thibs needs to bring someone onto his staff that knows offense and who he respects. They mentioned Terry Stotts.
I would imagine somewhere in the CAA stable there has to be a guy who fits the bill.
I have learned so much on this blog
I normally have very strong opinions on what should be done in a given offseason, but I have to admit I’m at a bit of a loss. It’s a very confusing situation:
-The team had its most successful playoff run of my life and may have been an insane bounce away from the finals, which would seem to justify a minimalist approach wherein you mostly run it back and try to reinforce the bench. This group + CP3 is intriguing.
-The regular season was underwhelming, largely due to things that, IMO, have to do with coaching e.g. 3PAr and minute distributions that were arguably suboptimal for both the present and future.
-The regular season issues absolutely reared their head in the playoffs. We had a pedestrian 113.3 ORTG and our 3PAr ranked 14/16 (identical to our DRTG, weirdly enough, which was good for 8th).
-The team’s best player seems to strongly support the coach.
-There were, at a minimum, some tensions in the locker room this season.
-We have multiple players with high trade value, but it’s not at all clear we’d be better off with whatever we could get in return.
-OKC, if reasonably healthy, will almost certainly be better than any other team for the foreseeable future.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I probably lean in the direction of firing Thibs, hiring a coach who is made sick by the very idea of having the 27th ranked 3PAr, and trying to upgrade the bench. My inkling is that the roster made it as deep in the playoffs as they did with what I think was mediocre coaching earned them another shot.
But I don’t feel very strongly, for once. We have no idea what opportunities might present themselves and there are many that I’m sure would make me rethink all of this.
Wasn’t the guy who was picked to be Dan Toni’s defensive specialist Mike Woodson, who then took his job?
It’s a frustrating moment because many of us believe we could have gone further despite the limitations of our players. But that being said, we’re in a better position than most EC teams because of our handling of the aprons. The Celtics are screwed, the Cavs have some challenges, Detroit needs another player or two, Philly has to pray on Embiid’s knees. Indiana is in good shape, so maybe it’s us and them again next year if we make some improvements on the margins (including the coaching staff). The Cavs should also be back, but they’re gonna lose some key depth and have always been vulnerable to injury.
Ok how about this trade…
It’s the ultimate pivot and the surprise way of solving the Brunson/Towns problem…
And it’s cold AF…
Jalen Brunson & Josh Hart for Giannis (the salaries match)
Personal feelings and politics aside, would you make that trade? (I think Milwaukee would.)
1 McBride
2 Bridges
3 Anunoby
4 Giannis
5 Towns
6th man – Mitch
We’d fuck teams up.
They’d have to change that ad…
CP3 would be a very tough get his wife and kids still live in LA.
That’s generally how I feel. This was a top-4 team. How do you transform into #1? We beat the Pistons and Celtics and made the ECF and had a legit shot at winning it all. That doesn’t smell like a team that you tear down and rebuild from scratch. A single player can make the difference for this team. Would Antman over Bridges or Giannis over OG put this team over the top? Yeah. Probably.
I’m not expecting drastic change but I am expecting a big splash.
I’d want to acquire a real PG somehow, but I definitely think that makes us better
Shit Hubie, I think you cracked it. That is the right basketball move and makes us a real contender tomorrow.
Never happen but Im there for it
Josh Hart should be available for trade, but I have a feeling breaking up Brunson and Hart is not going to happen unless Hart wants out and Brunson is untouchable. That’s why when I speculate about huge moves I usually start with Towns, but Mitch, OG and Bridges all have to be possible assets. I love those guys, but if we somehow added Giannis next to Towns that would solve a LOT of problems.
A more realistic Giannis trade would be OG + Mitch + Kolek plus 2-3 firsts. We would have to trade Mikal for 2 firsts plus a future one of our own.
That would leave us a Brunson/Deuce/Hart/Giannis/KAT lineup although maybe we get a starter or bench part back in the Mikal trade (think Keldon Johnson-level).
JB for Giannis would be interesting from our end but Milwaukee would be crazy to do that, they can’t really tank and that trade makes them worse with no real upside. They could trade JB somewhere else for a haul but they could just do that with Giannis.
people say llms fail the turing test because they hallucinate and then you read knickerblogger trade porn
Just to re-visit some points I made yesterday:
Problem #1: I don’t ever see this team winning a championship with both Brunson and KAT in the starting lineup without a perfect storm of opponents’ injury luck. This is mainly because I don’t see a way to improve the roster with those two eating up two major salary spots, plus having a weak bench and very few assets with which to improve the roster either via the draft or trade, plus no cap room for free agents. It’s a dead end. This problem supersedes all other problems that we have right now. I would cash in on KAT’s perceived value while it is still near its theoretical max. We can entertain trading Brunson, but come on, Leon’s just not doing that. Nor would I want him to.
Problem #2: Thibs has probably run his course, but unless problem #1 is solved, I don’t see much utility in replacing Thibs beyond aesthetics. This is way more of a Leon problem than a Thibs problem. But moving on to a coach who will run the team like Carlisle runs the Pacers, meaning that he will keep bench players in the mix all season and limit starters’s minutes (not so much to preserve them as to keep bench players at maximum readiness) is advisable.
Problem #3: There is a stunning lack of offensive creativity beyond Brunson and KAT. Specifically, OG, Mikal, and Hart all have flawed offensive games for reasons that should be pretty obvious. When all three of them are on the floor, the burden on Brunson or KAT to carry the offense is just too much.
Problem #4: Mitch is a force in his lane, but it’s a narrow lane, and he doesn’t work as well on a roster with the above problems. If he’s crashing the offensive boards, which is his most valuable skill, that’s another leak-out opportunity for a team like Indy, negating his second most valuable skill. I’d see if we can replace him via a trade while he’s healthy and still under contract, i.e. while his value is at a max.
In any case, there’s a lot of work to do. If Leon winds up tinkering around the edges, i.e. all of KAT, Brunson, OG, Mikal, Hart, Mitch and Deuce are still in the rotation and Thibs is still on the sidelines, my guess is that, short of a miracle acquisition, we will be eliminated prior to the finals again next year. Seems like a pretty hard ceiling to me.
I think the Giannis ship sailed once we blew all those picks on Mikal. Now there’s no way to get him without gutting the team, and sure none that would leave us with a sure-fire contender, so why even bother entertaining the notion?
I’m in love.
I’m looking at a better player/deal the Bucks could get, and I’m not seeing a better player than Brunson that could be traded for. Picks are great but their own picks which might be valuable moving forward are owned by NO in 26 and 27 and Portland in 28 and 30. (via swaps)
I just can’t see Leon trading Brunson under any circumstances. Folks might bring up that last year at this time I was saying that about the ‘Nova connection in general, and then DDV was sent out, but this is a different thing altogether. Brunson is the most popular Knicks player in the last 30 years. He’s on a dynamite contract and in the midst of his prime. From a marketing perspective, it would go over about as well as the Luka trade…even though we all know it would be a hell of a lot less dumb, and possibly even smart, from a sheer valuation perspective. But you would need a heartless GM like Ainge to do something like that, and that’s not Leon’s MO.
But that said, I doubt that the Bucks would trade Giannis for Brunson and Hart. They should be able to get a lot more, and would probably value young players and picks way more than two vets that will win games to their detriment.
Let’s just get DDV back and call it a day.
Milwaukee still has two years of Dame at like $56M AAV. They wouldn’t contend next year because Dame is a $54M black hole and then the next year they’d have to figure out how to trade $58M Dame in his age 36, post-Achilles season to try to get guys to play next to Brunson.
Not happening. They’d be way better off doing a tank/asset haul rebuild if they are forced to move Giannis. That Dame contract is a real stink bomb for them.
You guys are fucking nuts contemplating trading Brunson even if it is for Giannis.
Not if it was to bring back Giannis who is 2 years older than Brunson and lightyears better. I’m with you that Leon would have to be a CEO on the level of Warren Buffet and Nicolo Machiavelli’s illegitimate son.
How is winning games to their detriment when they only own their 2029 pick through 2030?
At this point, I’m all for the Mail Slot Fucker taking over from Thibs. The only question is whether he likes to go 8 deep or 9 deep.
Out of curiosity, why?
“Not if it was to bring back Giannis who is 2 years older than Brunson and lightyears better.”
If you can tell me the last time a New York team traded the team’s captain in his prime after he just carried the team on his back to within 6 wins of a championship, I’d love to hear it.
No team does that unless the player is disgruntled or has off-court issues. And even then, it never really happens unless the player demands a trade or is an impending free agent. Brunson actually signed at a huge discount to play here, can you imagine a GM with a heart betraying him like that?
Barring Dolan firing Leon and bringing in a hit man like Ainge or Ujiri to run the team, Brunson is likely to spend all but his twilight years here, and to have his number hanging in the rafters when he retires. You’re a betting man, Bob. Would you wager even a penny that Brunson gets traded at any time in the next 3 years?
Because Brunson is the best Knick since Ewing and the most popular since probably Clyde not to mention he is on by far the best contract of any superstar in the NBA.
I mean honestly how can you watch Brunson for the last 3 years and actually be willing to trade him? I mean shit we all want to win a championship but rooting for players like Brunson to me is probably even more important as a fan than winning at all cost. I’m first and foremost a fan of the name on the front of the jersey than the names in the back but still I’m sorry at this point in his career no fucking way do I want to even contemplate trading Brunson.
“Let’s just get DDV back and call it a day.”
1000%
If the Knicks managed to trade for Towns without including DDV, started DDV & moved Hart to the bench, we wouldn’t be having any of these post season discussions yet. The Knicks would be in the finals. Hart is a terrific versatile player, but the Knicks needed DDV to play a true 5 out. The data with Towns and any lineup that was 5 out was very good (of course Thibs didn’t play those lineups much). I like Hart and called for him to start at the beginning of the season, but that’s the spot that has to be upgraded with a shooter either at SG or PF.
Not that PHX would do it unless he demands it, but would anyone want t trade KAT for Durant? (and if you think PHX would need to sweeten the deal, sure, throw that in). I’d probably be a no, even straight up, because a) I don’t like KD and b) at his age, KD is probably not that much different than KAT on defense, and maybe not on offense either.
I’m not trading him for the proverbial “warm bucket of spit”, I’m trading him for a vastly superior 2 way player because I want the franchise to succeed at a higher level.
This is what GMs get paid to do… make the team better.
Even if Leon was some kind of stone cold assassin who was willing to trade Brunson, that trade still doesn’t make sense for Milwaukee, because of the Dame problem. They have a $54M hole in the middle of their roster and a $58M hole the year after that.
Probably won’t happen. Sentiment and emotion have no place in the running of any organization, especially a multibillion and highly competitive business like NBA basketball.
Does anyone believe Giannis for Brunson/Hart doesn’t improve the Knicks in the short/intermediate term?
If I ran the Bucks and I got the feeling Giannis wanted to be traded, I would tell him, “My friend, we gave up picks to get Holiday and Dame at your insistence. Find us a way to get those picks back or get equal value for you and we’ll be happy to accommodate you.”
I actually do question how much that trade improves the Knicks. Giannis for as great as he is hasn’t won a playoff series since 2022, is injury prone and is a God awful 3pt and FT shooter.
That trade would also make the Knicks quite possibly the worst ball handling team in the NBA.
Yeah they’d have to add this scene with Giannis in front of the car saying “yeah you” to Mikal.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOiRMN5nRO8
I see the point but disagree. What they need is a stronger 3rd option. The real issue though is defense. Neither KAT nor Brunson are plus defenders.
Totally disagree. I’m a Thibs die-hard. The man is gold. He can do no wrong in my eyes.
Yes but it’s the same solution as for Problem #1. They need a better 3rd option.
Mitch is both great and awful. His defense can be stifling but until he learns how to hit FTs (never gonna happen, I’m afraid) the Mitch mauling (I hate the term hack-a-Mitch) is going to get worse. He’s aware (as per his IG post) but what’ll he do about it? But he’s also a zero threat more than 3-feet from the hoop. A baby hook or a baby jumper will make other teams come out to try to defend him.
The real problem with this team is that Hart, Bridges and OG are not great offensive players. The Knicks only have 2 real starters who are legit threats.
I think Milwaukee would definitely do it. They have that Lillard hole in their team no matter what, and they have to build a team that can compete around it without their picks.
There is no way in hell the Knicks would do it, though.
Milwaukee would do it only if they were dumb. Their situation is screaming “rebuild.” They could get a huge haul for Giannis, tank for two years and then be one of the better up and coming teams in the league a few years from now.
Jalen Brunson
Gary Trent
Josh Hart
Kyle Kuzma
Bobby Portis
That team sucks. Play-in team.
Have you looked at Giannis’ BPM, VORP, WS/48. rebounding, scoring, etc…etc… etc….
How many quantum levels does the defense improve subtracting Hart/Brunson and adding Giannis/Deuce?
This is mostly mental masturbation, but from a strictly a winning basketball perspective?
Giannis is five times all-defense, a former DPOY, has won a chip, and puts up a 9 BPM every year. Brunson is a fine player and we all love him dearly but it’s just not tenable to suggest that he is an impact player of Giannis’ quality.
The defensive side of the ball counts.
We’d have been in good position to make a play for Giannis to play ALONGSIDE Brunson if we hadn’t made the Mikal Bridges trade. Alas.
The entire point is tanking does nothing for them because NO has swap rights for their 26 and 27 pick and Portland has swap rights for 28 and 30.
Yeah but you would get draft picks and young talent back in exchange for Giannis. Better than fugazy contending with Jalen Brunson, Kyle Kuzma, Bobby Portis and a bunch of scrubs while you wait for 36 year old post-Achilles tear Dame to return from oblivion.
Don’t think “tank.” Think “collect assets.”
Obviously trading Brunson is not gonna happen, so no need to spend energy on the topic.
Mikal is another question.
By the way, I don’t think our picks were/are all that valuable. The killer is 2031. But the others were not likely perceived as much. So it’s far from realistic that having those picks would mean a lot in a potential Giannis trade…except for, again, 2031. Can’t rebuild with a bunch of low-20s picks.
Nobody thought Philly or Dallas was going to be in lottery contention a year ago, yet here we are. I’m not penciling the Knicks in as playoff locks four years from now, let alone six.
A load of picks plus a couple of players might have gotten it done for Giannis. Might not have, but might have. A couple of players and no picks… well that’s why we’re having this silly discussion about trading them Jalen Brunson in the first place.
It was considered unlikely that Paul George would be a free agent bust or that Embiid’s knees would be completely cooked.
But absolutely no one on the planet predicted that Dallas would commit franchise suicide by trading Luka for Anthony Davis.
Dallas’ downfall wasn’t on the same planet as Philly’s in terms of probability.
don’t envision a complete buck’s tear down…doesn’t fit the market, perennial playoff team with star, plus none of their own picks coming up…
they’ll want at least 2 good starting players and a couple of decent picks…
7 free agents this off-season…they may have a good shot at getting to the playin if they reconstruct their roster wisely…that’ll be good for the fan base…
we have the players and matching salary, we’d have to use another starter though to acquire picks…maybe deuce, Mikel and KAT together could get it done…
liliard and kuzma on the roster though are going to be really difficult for their team to overcome…maybe that was the best they could get for middleton, bad choice…
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/280607/NBAs-Second-Apron-Creating-Sandwich-Effect-With-Offseason-Trade-Surge-Anticipated
The article states that trade activity will be very active, which in my mind suggests that it will be somewhat of a buyer’s market. That definitely benefits Leon in the search for stars.
On the other hand, we will be competing with teams that have more assets than us and who might be a couple of good players away from making some noise.
The Rockets, Spurs, Magic, Pistons, Blazers, Cavs, Hawks, Raptors, Kings, Grizz, etc. might all be looking to make a leap and have better assets to trade than we do.
But there will definitely be opportunities. The three players with short term and/or undervalued contracts are Mikal, Mitch, and Deuce. Josh Hart might be viewed as salary filler with only 2 guaranteed years left on his deal. Maybe one of those young teams thinks KAT is the missing piece…I could see one of the western teams liking him if Giannis is unavailable to them.
So there will be opportunities, but we are sort of at a disadvantage in trying to acquire talent and depth at the same time. Leon is going to have to thread the needle a bit.
Let’s play a game. The quotes below could be from right now, but you have to guess when in the season they are from.
I’ll give you a clue. It was 33 pages from the home page ago.
Mets actually a game better than the Dodgers. Go figure.
Might change by midnight, of course…