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44 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2025.02.13)”
Macri talks about this game as a Rorschach test, allowing you to use it to see whatever you want to see both in it and in the state of the Knicks at the 2/3 mark of the season. I have chosen to see the following things:
1. Everyone is gassed. Everyone needs a break. And I really hope that Jalen and KAT spend most of the various All-Star games cheering from the bench.
2. I don’t know how much of the defensive breakdowns can be ascribed to the aforementioned fatigue, versus injuries, versus KAT being a poor defender and Brunson being an only slightly less poor one. I don’t know how much the returns of OG and/or Mitch will fix things. And I don’t know how many more schematic changes Thibs is capable of making if a return to full health doesn’t solve that stuff.
3. This is a team capable of incredible highs and exasperating lows. But on the whole I think it’s better — or, at least, more sustainable over a season and some kind of playoff run — than last year’s, and the best squad we’ve had since the ’90s. Can we get over the hump and beat any of Boston, Cleveland, or OKC? So far, the evidence seems to suggest not. But after 20 years largely filled with hopeless, joyless, incompetent Knicks rosters and management teams, I am not going to rend any garments over being somewhere between the fourth and sixth best team in the league, and one capable of incredible offensive fireworks against any team but Boston. For now, I’ll take that.
Get some naps in, guys.
Nice!
And I totally agree with you on your hope for the least participation possible for Jalen and KAT in All-Star stuff. Again, I prefer that they’d be both be relaxing on beaches on tropical islands rather than doing *any* basketball activities, but neither one of them is going to bow out, especially not at this point.
Without questioning the quality or good faith of the general post — there’s nothing there to question — I have to confess to finding it a bit odd that we’re still hearing about the 20 years and the PTSD when this will be the fourth year in five the team will be in the playoffs and they’ve won two playoff rounds. JK also alluded to this the other day.
It was less than two basketball and calendar years ago that in the playoffs they demolished the team they’ve now, by all accounts, fallen behind. It’s hard not to see at least some level of stagnation and treading water in that.
This team hasn’t been bad since they closed the doors for Covid. It’s now five years later. They need to move the needle.
The minutes distribution last night in a meaningless February game when they’re multiple games ahead for the third seed and they don’t necessarily even want the third seed, was patently absurd.
They just don’t get it.
I’m mostly aligned with Alan. And I don’t necessarily agree that Cleveland has passed us in playoff capability. Seems like the best bet is that they will suffer the same fate as us except a round later. When you look at their makeup and add Mitch to our depth I think we would again match up very well with Cleveland. They are even smaller in the backcourt than we are. And that seems to be an advantage that Boston exploits very well. Mikal can lock down one of Mitchell or Garland. And the Cleveland bigs do not present the outside shooting threat that Boston’s bigs do.
As for treading water, that’s really not true. The Knicks are a bit of an unfinished product. The true test will be against Boston in the 2nd round. If it’s a tough close series then I think we can agree we are pretty close. If it’s not then bigger changes (including a possible coaching change) will need to be contemplated.
I’m no x’s and o’s guy but I do wonder sometimes about Thibs’s ability to make in-game adjustments — even if an adjustment doesn’t work, don’t you have to try SOMETHING if the other team is literally scoring at will? The Hawks have Trae Young and basically no one else when it comes to creating offense (now that Jaylen Johnson is out for the year). They did it maybe a couple times last night – and by “it” I mean putting 2 on the ball and making Trae pass it out – and it feels like those possessions turned out well.
And I generally don’t agree with E on anything, but I do sort of agree that we might just want the 4 seed rather than the 3 seed in order to avoid Boston. There is something about that Boston team and whatever it is Mazzulla is doing that is like kryptonite.
(I am sort of nervous about any matchup with Cleveland too – Deandre Hunter is a great pickup for them)
This is a feel-good cliche. Given their lack of draft picks and assets, and financial flexibility, the Knicks are probably the most “finished” product in the NBA.
As Owen said yesterday, this is their team. If people want to keep pretending they haven’t “gelled” yet or “need more time together,” that’s certainly their prerogative … but this is their finished team.
This is their team for this year yes. With one exception. Mitch has shown to be impact player when healthy. How that will manifest this season is a tough guess. But it’s not a finished product for next year. There are always creative ways to make deals. Might that mean trading a member of the core? Yes. But it also might not.
I’m not saying they haven’t gelled. They have gelled with the schemes that Thibs has implemented. Thibs seat will seemingly be pretty warm this summer if they don’t have a competitive series with Boston.
Winning on a back to back with 7 playable guys is not easy. Going into the break with Trae blowing kisses to the crowd after a late game collapse would have been disgusting
Game ball to Precious for a near career night. Honorable mention to Payne for rallying us at a crucial point.
Obviously Towna played great but the seven turnovers were brutal and unnecessary and he is an all star starter. Tonight was the first time in a while he looked like the long range bomber we saw in November.
The Hawks were gritty. Okongwo is a nightmare to deal with on the boards and had a monster game everywhere but the stripe. 9-10 with 5 assists and no turnovers.
Speaking of no turnovers, the Hawks had 8 from Trae and four from the rest of the team.
Don’t know who Gueye is but he and Mann did us a solid. 0-10 combined and -31 in as many minutes.
They were terrific at stripping us all night long. It’s one of the four factors you don’t think about that much but it swing the game. Obviously it shouldn’t have been close but they earned the comeback.
We made fun of Dad Bod but when the dust settled the Minibus actually ended up with an amazing line.
I always knock him but Lavert was terrific too
Each game is a tree. The forest has always been the same:
– At full strength this is a really good team capable of making an exciting run this year (but probably not capable of winning the 2025 title).
– With any injury, this team is fucked and could lose in the first round.
– Only the unlikely return of Platonic Ideal Mitch can change our path this year.
– With a good offseason, next year we could be the team people thought we’d be this year.
So my Rorschach assessment is that last night was fun AF. We learned nothing new bc we already know how fucked we are when anyone gets hurt. It’s all entertainment, that was a brilliant performance.
Btw Jimmy Butler shot 28 free throws in his first two games as a Warrior. Must be nice to have that whistle.
I would not want to face Golden State in the playoffs (their loss to Dallas last night notwithstanding). If they are the 7 seed, Memphis is dead. If they are the 8 seed, I’m sure the Thunder will win but it should be fun.
It probably won’t happen but the Nets are in the East playoff picture at the asb, which is something I wouldn’t have imagined at the start of the season
If I had to guess from reading the comments above (and some of the recent ones in general), I’d say we all like Thibs and are grateful for what he’s done, but there is a consensus growing that upgrading the coach is probably the most impactful change we can make this summer.
At the same time, there is probably a collective acceptance that it will never happen. Which is weird because I think Thibs tracks extremely close to JB Bickerstaff on the Cavs.
After molding a young team for two seasons, JB won 99 games over the last two years.
Over the same exact period, Thibs molded a winning culture for two seasons, then won 97 games over the last two years.
In the playoffs, JB won one series, got his pants pulled down in one his team was favored to win (against us), and lost a respectable round to the Celtics last year.
In the playoffs, Thibs has won two series and got his pants pulled down in three his team was favored to win (Atlanta, Miami, Indiana).
Both guys are good at culture building and preparation but terrible at adjustments and X’s & O’s. Neither is particularly good in the playoffs. It’s a little perplexing why one guy was on the hot seat all along while the other seemingly has total security.
We cannot ignore the possibility that race is a factor because the history of black coaches in sports is undeniable. That’s not where I want to take this, but it has to be mentioned that maybe JB would still be there if he were, I don’t know, Nick Nurse.
But I’m inclined to think, given the spectacular result of switching to Atkinson, that the Cavs were motivated by the right reasons here. They saw the limitations of their culture coach and upgraded to a total coach because they wanted to get to the next level. Whereas we seem to see the limitations of ours and are just cool with it.
Pretty much the only two teams who have no real chance at the playoffs are the Hornets and the Wizards. (I don’t mean officially/mathematically. Both of those teams *could* still make it.)
Utah averages 112 points a game but scored 131 against the lakers. They shot 52% from the field and 37% from three, much better than their normal 46% and 35%. Somehow, I don’t think this was totally shooting luck
“It was less than two basketball and calendar years ago that in the playoffs they demolished the team they’ve now, by all accounts, fallen behind. It’s hard not to see at least some level of stagnation and treading water in that”
Why the infatuation with the Cavaliers as the yardstick? Two basketball years ago after 54 games they were 32-22 and we were 28-26, an improvement of 12 games versus ours of 8. But if you widen the yardstick to include the top 8 teams in the East as of today, after a similar amount of games, Detroit leads by a +15 improvement, followed by the Cavs, then us, Pacers at +6, Magic at +4, Celtics flat, with the Heat and Bucks regressing. I am as frustrated as anyone with some of our performances but the last two years has zero whiff of stagnation.
Sacramento brings in Markelle Fultz, former #1 overall pick?
A third consecutive second-round loss, after blowing through the asset chest and turning over a bunch of the roster, would be the virtual textbook definition of “stagnation.”
JB’s an excellent coach, has done a terrific job with the Pistons.
Everybody loves KAT and is rooting hard for him … but …
Regular season: 24.4/11.7/3.4/1.9 stocks per 36, on .524/.401/.842
Playoffs (*): 18.8/10.2/2.4/1.48 stocks per 36, on .468/.350/.824 (32 games).
That can’t happen this spring.
Hate to be looking for storm clouds, but game time’s coming up soon — as is decision time. If we’re Rorschach testing, as per Macri, let’s do it. This is a gargantuan playoff season for this team, roster, and coach.
(*) Virtually all in his prime.
Before you stagnate you sort of have to, you know, stagnate.
Let’s not get Doogie involved, but there’s “some level of stagnation now,” not full-on stagnation.
I’ll continue to dissent from the idea that we need to wait for the projected thing to actually happen before commenting on it.
They’re projected, pretty soundly, to have their third straight second-round loss this spring. Priors only change if they beat the Cavs or Celts with those teams at full strength.
In a sense the 2023 second round loss understates it, since Randle was banged up. (So was Grimes and he laid brick the entire Miami series.)
During the actual games it’s super frustrating at times to watch but when the games are over and I look back at the highlights this really is a super fun team to root for. The lack of defense definitely makes the games more entertaining although at times I’d gladly settle for boring blowouts.
Because RJ supposedly had a good series against them (he really didn’t) so E can pretend that trading RJ for OG was actually bad and is the reason we’ll supposedly never make it out of the 2nd round.
So the Cavs get judged in regular season improvement and the Knicks only get judged in playoff performance. So if the Knicks lose to Boston in 6 in the Semis and Cavs lose in 5 in the ECF who had the better year or more importantly who has the better team?
I don’t see it that way at all. Everything points to next season for us. This playoff season is just a prelude.
KAT does stuff offensively that feels like it should be impossible for any player in a Knick uniform to do, based on watching this team going back to the Riley years. (Though again, if Ewing had been raised in a 5-out world, he likely would have been great from downtown.) JB is magic out there. The sheer smarts of Hart, and to an extent Mikal, are a pleasure to see. OJ’s game is very aesthetically pleasing except when he is putting the ball on the floor. And other guys like Deuce, Precious, and Payne will all go on entertaining heaters every few games. “Super fun team to watch” is exactly right for me. It’s just a very different kind of super fun from what we’ve grown used to, even in the good times for this franchise.
Totally agree. We made two huge trades this past summer, hopefully we can use this summer to add a couple of bench pieces around them.
Some people say this Boston team is among the all-time greats. If we lose, we tip our cap and hope they age out or Dadiet becomes a superstar during the off-season.
We assembled a good team, though I’m not sure it’s truly a great one, and that’s about all you can do. The Knicks can’t stop Brooklyn from paying triple market price for expired Boston goods nor can they stop the Clippers from doing the same for Paul George (who went 1-7 for 2pts last night!?!). Hopefully we find a buyer as dumb as those for KAT, Brunson, et al., when the run is over.
I’m a ranking member of the minutes police and I have no issue with the minutes last night. It was a close game we wanted win and everyone is on the all-star break now. So everyone can freshen up.
The Pacers game was worse. We were in control but he played a couple of guys that were already beat up extra minutes and then put Brunson back in the game when it was already bascially over even though he knew we were on a B2B.
He doesn’t understand risk reward.
Injuring or breaking down a player can be catastrophic to the season.
Blowing a big lead sucks, but it’s rarely very significant.
So even if blowing a game happens more frequently (and I’m not even sure it does in many cases when Thibs is playing important players), the downsides are very different and have to considered. Thibs doesn’t seem to understand that part of the equation.
The place where I’m hanging my hat, Rorschach test-wise (didn’t he play for the Hawks last night?) is the almost daily “Hasn’t been done in 30 years” factoid that turns up. Whether it’s our won-lost record (quite literally the opposite of stagnation), 40-10s, 40/30s, 40/40s, and on and on.
I know it’s only two thirds of the season, but we’re better than we have been in decades in so many ways. Still hated the game last night, though, especially the defense.
I loved Baugh in SL. His defense was something else against that competition. His big problem is his shooting. It’ll be interesting to see how his defense and passing translates.
I don’t think Lakers fans (or the media) fully comprehend that the Lakers had a bad defense before the trade, they traded away their best defender and a young player that also defends, added a negative defender and have no legitimate starting C. I’m not sure how you contend with that team,
They have the potential for a powerhouse offense, but Luka, Lebron and Reaves all do their best work with the ball in their hands (especially Luka). Someone is going to get fewer touches and have to sacrifice boxscore stats.
I’m upset that Davis got hurt. I was dying to see Dallas as currently constructed. I think they are VERY good.
Long term, the Lakers got the best if it because of the age difference, but for this year imo Dallas would have been the better team if Davis was still healthy.
If there is any “stagnation” from last year to this year (I think we are a bit better this year) it’s because we lost I-Hart for nothing. Losing him for nothing meant we had to improve quite a bit in other ways just to break even. That we did is quite an accomplsiment for Leon. Now we have to see what Mitch adds to the mix.
Elfrid Payton starting at point guard, Taj playing 21 solid minutes and going 10-12, and Obi going off for 31-10 feels like Palm Springs or something.
Also Grimes got 30.
Meanwhile, Paul George plays 36 minutes and is 1-7 for 2 points. Which I guess is better than DaQuan Jeffries playing 26 minutes and scoring zero, but not by much.
George looks completely uninterested. I wonder how long until Sixer fans boo him.
I don’t think the Lakers made that deal to win this year, or if they did they at least understood when they nixed that deal for a center they weren’t going to win this year.
DRedsays:
June 30, 2024 at 16:24
Paul George and Philly fans seem like a terrible mix but I guess that’s really none of my business
Well that’s certainly true last night about the Lakers, as Jimmy et al. lost to a Dallas team starting Kessler Edwards (1.9 pts/g this season) and someone named Olivier-Maxence Prosper, who sounds like an 18th century barrister.
You made me think that Taj shot 10-for-12 last night for over 20 points. That would have been amazing, of course, but although what he did last night wasn’t quite to that level…….it was indeed quite good.
I was going to post about Kessler Edwards but that’s a bit I have been going to a bit often lately
to me…to keep reiterating that we “lost ihart for nothing”…is cherry picking…we got Brunson (one of the best players in the league) for something like “nothing” given he took way below market/team friendly deal…it is debatable if Leon leveraged that (similar to overcoming ihart) sufficiently/efficiently..time will tell…but i think solely focusing on the ihart defection is a narrow view.
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