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Knicks Morning News (2024.12.03)

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  • Jericho Sims is becoming Knicks? under-the-radar defensive juggernaut – New York Post
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  • 96 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.12.03)”

    I’m not optimistic about tonight. Orlando is the old Knicks, trying to make every game a rock fight, and that can be a problem for this team. It may come down to Jalen needing to have a big game to win.

    It’s a worthy test, though.

    I’m looking forward to it. If OG can contain Wagner, we should have more than enough fire power to handle them. It doesn’t hurt to have home court either.

    I’m going the other way.

    Orlando scared the shit out of me last year when we relied on Brunson, physicality, and rebounding. Suggs is a tough matchup for Jalen, they were bigger than us, and they controlled the boards.

    Now that we can score like this, I think they’d have trouble keeping up with us in an empty gym.

    I expect this one to flip our way. (Whereas the Cleveland matchup is one I think flipped the other way.)

    I’m not looking forward to tonight. If we should lose, that means I can look forward to a 200 post thread on Wednesday about how we lost the OG trade and overpaid him, Mikal is done and we overpaid for him, Thibs can’t coach a team without a rim protecting C and Leon screwed it all by incinerating all our assets. 🙁

    Orlando scared the shit out of me last year when we relied on Brunson, physicality, and rebounding. Suggs is a tough matchup for Jalen, they were bigger than us, and they controlled the boards.

    I don’t know about “scare the shit out of,” but athletic defensive teams with length certainly are problematic for the Knicks (and everyone else.)

    Is it weird that I like this Orlando team when fully healthy? Not to the point of Fandom, of course. But that squad is Hella intriguing to me. They need a true PG..but there’s alot to like there between Franz Wagner, Banchero, Suggs, and Isaac. If Carter improves his rim protection and embraces a role as the dirty work guy who can score when needed, that team is gonna be trouble. They’re already hell to deal with. Should be a tough, fun game tonight

    Nice thread summary, Strat.

    To start off the thread (almost) with some joy, this from Macri:

    “Congrats to Jalen Brunson, who won the Eastern Conference Player of the Week award after leading the Knicks to a 3-1 record while averaging 26.8 points, 9.8 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 2.3 turnovers while shooting 54.7 percent overall, 52.4 percent from deep and 86.7 percent from the line. This is Brunson’s fifth Player of the Week award with the Knicks, which trails only Patrick Ewing and Carmelo Anthony in franchise history.”

    So go Cap!

    Looking forward to tonight. Hoping Mikal has back to back strong games to get some confidence.

    Only saw the highlights of last game, but a bunch of buckets were Bridges cutting for easy assists from Jalen. More of that, please. Baby steps.

    Our schedule gets really easy after tonight so it’s time to get a real winning streak going. Beat the teams you’re supposed to beat at home (like the Celtics did last night stomping the Heat)

    No more excuses, other teams are more banged up than we are

    “Congrats to Jalen Brunson, who won the Eastern Conference Player of the Week award after leading the Knicks to a 3-1 record while averaging 26.8 points, 9.8 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 2.3 turnovers while shooting 54.7 percent overall, 52.4 percent from deep and 86.7 percent from the line. This is Brunson’s fifth Player of the Week award with the Knicks, which trails only Patrick Ewing and Carmelo Anthony in franchise history.”

    That assists number… Brunson is really something.

    “He (LeBron) was a -28 last night. I don’t believe it either but the Bron era has to end sometime….”

    He’s averaging 16.6 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 9.0 assists over his last five games, and 22.0 points, 8.0 rebounds, and 9.1 assists on the season. He’ll be 40 years old in a few weeks. What do you want from the man?

    Is it weird that I like this Orlando team when fully healthy? Not to the point of Fandom, of course. But that squad is Hella intriguing to me.

    Same. The trajectory they are on is compelling. And they have everything they need to make multiple impactful trades when the time is right.

    Their approach vs ours looks like a race between the tortoise and the hare. I think we’re still ahead of them now, though.

    A bit more joy for you joy-seekers. The Macri piece grades all the players, and there are too many interesting and fun tidbits to share here, so this is the link, assuming you can access it (if you don’t get the newsletter).

    My favorite Macri bit is he basically hops over Sims with a B+, giving the sense that he’s really saying “I don’t get it, either.”

    Raven, FYI- I clicked on the link and because I’m not a subscriber, it revealed your name.

    He’s averaging 16.6 points, 7.8 rebounds, and 9.0 assists over his last five games, and 22.0 points, 8.0 rebounds, and 9.1 assists on the season. He’ll be 40 years old in a few weeks. What do you want from the man?

    His TS% over the last 5 games is 43.3%.

    I can fully see that LeBron is currently in a slump. But he’s earned a little bit of a pass on that kind of thing, at this point. That’s all I’m saying. YMMV 🙂

    To be Top 15 in the league at his age…….and that’s about where I think he is right now, right around #15…….is still quite an accomplishment.

    “Congrats to Jalen Brunson, who won the Eastern Conference Player of the Week award after leading the Knicks to a 3-1 record while averaging 26.8 points, 9.8 assists, 3.5 rebounds and 2.3 turnovers while shooting 54.7 percent overall, 52.4 percent from deep and 86.7 percent from the line. This is Brunson’s fifth Player of the Week award with the Knicks, which trails only Patrick Ewing and Carmelo Anthony in franchise history.”

    That assists number… Brunson is really something.

    I think we can stop with the “maybe the league has figured out Brunson” bullshit

    Yeah, Brunson feels like he isn’t having a great year, then you look at the numbers and realize how spoiled you are. I actually do believe he can and will be better, which is saying something.

    As for LeBron being top 15, I dunno about that….

    “As for LeBron being top 15, I dunno about that….”

    1. Joker
    2. Giannis
    3. AD
    4. SGA
    5. Luka
    6. Tatum
    7. KAT
    8. LaMelo
    9. Sabonis
    10. Wemby
    11. Lillard
    12. Cade
    13. LeBron

    And Brunson Burner would come just a few spots after that—definitely Top 20. Something like that…….

    Don’t know what to say about that, Doogie, except hard disagree. Feels like a pointzz list without accounting for efficiency, defense, or a host of other important factors. (Not disagreeing with your top 4, though)

    25% through the season I don’t see any real surprises in terms of team success. I figured the 76ers would be bad, but not this bad – but that’s only because they’ve had fewer games from their Big 3 than even I anticipated. I thought the Pacers would be a little better, but not much. Hawks and Pistons are both a little better than expected. We’ll see at the end of the year.

    For all the talk about the West dominating, the only real contenders to me are the Thunder and Mavs. Lots of good teams, few of championship quality.

    I’ll add that I still think the Knicks are legit contenders. Assuming health at the end of the year, we’ll be better than the Cavs or Orlando. (Or the Bucks, who are too old and coached by Doc) Doubt we’ll beat Boston, but only OKC really stands a chance.

    I’d add these names to the mix:
    Embiid
    Donovan
    Ja
    Curry
    Durant
    Booker
    Ant
    Harden

    Perennially injured:
    Kawhi
    George
    KP

    I’d probably drop KAT, Sabonis, Cade, and Lillard

    Raven, FYI- I clicked on the link and because I’m not a subscriber, it revealed your name.

    Same here. If a mod is present they might want to delete that link.

    LaMelo? Cade? Ja? Ant?

    These people are famous for being high draft picks who make highlight reels. In reality, Derrick White is better than all of them.

    Raven – Deleted the offending link so that Reginald Maximus Elgrumpus doesn’t dox himself.

    Not really making any comment on Lebron other than that he has been super bad by his own Olympian standards….

    Orlando has the kind of 90’s Knicks squad we had last year and I do enjoy that. Going to be a tough game I suspect.

    You’d keep LaMelo?

    Missed him. He’d probably be a drop. I’m not looking super close at anything either, so I could be way off on what some players are doing this year.

    As for LeBron, it wouldn’t surprise me if he’s playing through an injury and he’s good to go once it heals.

    For all the talk about the West dominating, the only real contenders to me are the Thunder and Mavs. Lots of good teams, few of championship quality.

    Seems unfairly dismissive of Houston and Memphis, two teams with both high-end talent and the depth to attack in waves.

    I would guess LeBron won’t miss his next 20 3-pointers and maybe will decide to play defense if he needs to. If they make the playoffs, he’ll be 80% of what he always has been, and that’s pretty damn good.

    Seems unfairly dismissive of Houston and Memphis, two teams with both high-end talent and the depth to attack in waves.

    Would you give either more than a 10% chance to beat OKC? I wouldn’t. Great coaches, limited rosters. I have a little more belief in Memphis, but Houston is still a year or two away (depending on roster moves, and they do have the flexibility there to make some moves).

    In other words, they’re the Cavs and Magic of the western conference (though the Cavs have a better shot than either of them).

    This game should be a solid barometer. If you told me after 20 games we’d have a 57.4 win pythagorean winning percentage and the 4th best offense of all time relative to league average (major shoutout to Jared Dubin for putting together ORtg+–long overdue now that even the crappiest offenses would’ve led the league as recently as 10 years ago), I’d have gladly signed up for it even if you told me we were underperforming the pythagorean record and the defense was 20th.

    That said, I ain’t gonna deny that something has felt a bit underwhelming and I’d like to see the team go on the type of run befitting of those numbers.

    I maintain that “it’s Mikal Bridges, stupid” explains a lot of that though, with the remainder attributable to something Macri mentioned on the pod–there’s something in the DNA of the Knicks that makes fans think the good Knicks teams should be elite defensively.

    It’s even rubbed off on me, despite being born in 1995, based on my conversations with older Knicks fans and reading both When the Garden Was Eden and Blood in the Garden. We want playing the opposing team to leave with some bruises. Hopefully Precious and Mitch bring back that bruiser vibe.

    Houston is ridiculously good given the significant internal upside still to be realized. Amen Thompson might be the best defender in the league while Sengun compares favorably to Jokic at the same age offensively, and is already better than he ever was defensively. Tari Eason is doing 5 stocks per 36. Udoka is like the non-dinosaur version of Thibs.

    They’re probably closer to OKC than we are to them. This was always the risk of the hybrid method. We are likely to be lapped by teams like them and ORL well before BOS declines.

    I find the dismissal of the many Western teams that are visibly better than us to be arrogant and blithe. We’ve played a cupcake schedule in the easy conference, and even our better opponents have generally been depleted. We might not even be .500 if we played out there.

    Would you give either more than a 10% chance to beat OKC?

    I would. OKC is treated like the optimal version of themselves but they haven’t gotten there yet. I’d give them more than 10% against Boston, though maybe not much more.

    If I were to tier league right now I’d probably go:

    1: Boston
    2: Cleveland, OKC
    3: Memphis, Houston
    4: NY, Orlando, Dallas

    Our ORtg is 10pts higher than Orlando’s ORtg and our DRtg is 10pts higher than their DRtg. There might not be 2 teams more diametrically opposite.

    LBJ has also missed his last 20 threes.

    Really? Wow!

    OG only missed 15 in a row.

    James makes just under 49 million.

    OG makes just under 37 million.

    If OG is overpaid, damn, a scrub like James is really killing LA’s flexibility. 😉

    I find this obsession with all these other teams supposedly better than the Knicks arrogant, blithe and annoying.

    The Knicks are really fucking good! It’s OK to believe they can beat anybody including Boston but they’re the defending champs and truly deserve respect. Every other team the Knicks shouldn’t be scared of, I mean against alot of them the Knicks will have the 2 best players on the court.

    This game should be a solid barometer. If you told me after 20 games we’d have a 57.4 win pythagorean winning percentage and the 4th best offense of all time relative to league average (major shoutout to Jared Dubin for putting together ORtg+–long overdue now that even the crappiest offenses would’ve led the league as recently as 10 years ago), I’d have gladly signed up for it even if you told me we were underperforming the pythagorean record and the defense was 20th.

    Steve Nash was so damn good.

    I find this obsession with all these other teams supposedly better than the Knicks arrogant, blithe and annoying.

    The Knicks are really fucking good! It’s OK to believe they can beat anybody including Boston but they’re the defending champs and truly deserve respect. Every other team the Knicks shouldn’t be scared of, I mean against alot of them the Knicks will have the 2 best players on the court.

    It’s not an obsession, I’m simply reacting to the empirical evidence that shows we are not “really fucking good.” We are mid, ranked 8th in SRS. There generally aren’t 8 contending teams in the league. Our SRS is also inflated by us playing in the far weaker conference and the fact that the few good teams we’ve played have mostly been missing their best players.

    It simply isn’t true that we’d have the two best players against most of the teams ahead of us. The only teams where this is even arguably true are MEM and CLE. The rest have at least one player who would be the best in the history of our franchise going by BPM. Keep in mind that no Knick has ever had a 6 BPM season.

    BOS/OKC have Tatum/SGA
    DAL has Luka
    HOU has Sengun (7.6 BPM)
    GS has Curry (8.3 BPM)
    ORL has Wagner (6.3 BPM) and Banchero (6.5). They have a better case for having the two best players on the court than we do, and if they aren’t better they very likely will be very soon.

    You are overrating our top end talent significantly. Brunson and Towns are fringe top 10 guys, not a Shaq & Kobe caliber duo.

    Houston is ridiculously good given the significant internal upside still to be realized. Amen Thompson might be the best defender in the league while Sengun compares favorably to Jokic at the same age offensively, and is already better than he ever was defensively. Tari Eason is doing 5 stocks per 36. Udoka is like the non-dinosaur version of Thibs.

    Dude, if you were a Rocket’s fan you’d be pointing out that Sengun has a worse TS+ this year than RJ Barrett, Amen Thompson can’t even crack the starting 5 on a team that plays Dillin Brooks 31 minutes, and that Udoka is probably cheating on the Celtics staffer with a Clutch City Dancer.

    This game should be a solid barometer. If you told me after 20 games we’d have a 57.4 win pythagorean winning percentage and the 4th best offense of all time relative to league average (major shoutout to Jared Dubin for putting together ORtg+–long overdue now that even the crappiest offenses would’ve led the league as recently as 10 years ago), I’d have gladly signed up for it even if you told me we were underperforming the pythagorean record and the defense was 20th.

    To put some more perspective onto how good the offense is, the Grizzlies are 5th in Ortg, yet they’re closer to Toronto in 21st than to us in 1st.

    The thing about ranking teams right now is that there is so much variance and lack of adequate game data to really make solid judgments, other than the Celts are still favorites to win it all and the Thunder are stacked and have a theoretical leg up West. But there are lots of “what if” kinds of teams.

    Dallas has to be in the championship mix, they went to the finals last year and then got better. Are they being overlooked again?

    Cleveland is putting the league on notice.

    Memphis was a juggernaut a couple of years ago and then became a complete disaster last year. Now they are back but have still had to deal with injuries and lineup issues. So how good can they really be? Who knows? They surely have the most dynamic package of skill and athleticism in the NBA in Ja Morant, and a very Grindhouse kind of team if fully healthy (mentally and physically.) I haven’t watched them play yet but they seem fun.

    Houston is so young that several players might make an additional leap…or maybe a weakness is discovered and exploited as they go around the league a couple of times.

    The Dubs don’t looked washed just yet…neither do the Nuggets.

    Orlando is a long, athletic team with a budding superstar recovering from injury. Who knows how good they will be if they really gel, or if they make a personnel move?

    Folks have written the Lakers, Milwaukee and Philly off, but there’s a long way to go and if they can ever get healthy and right, they might be tough outs in the playoffs, even as play-in.

    Indy is scuffling but if Hali snaps out of it they can go on a run.

    Atlanta is looking better of late. Clearing out DJM might be good for their chemistry.

    Beyond the obvious bottom, the teams that don’t seem to be going anywhere good are Miami, Clips, Chicago, and Sacramento. Probably the Suns and Wolves too.

    At the end of the day, Alan Silver wanted parity more than anything else, and I think he is accomplishing his goal. There are still tiers but things are definitely bunching up.

    For Houston, a “non-hybrid team”, it’s worth noting that 2 of their top-3 in minutes are 29 & 30 years old. They have on/offs of +14 & +9.

    They have internal upside, but a lot of that will go to replacing FVV and Dillon Brooks.

    I know the Knicks lost to them earlier this season but against the Rockets the 2 best players on the court will be wearing Knick uniforms.

    At full strength the Celtics are the only team I’d rate as clearly better than the Knicks. They are very close to us in terms of offense, but without the defensive weakneses we have at 2-3 positions. Their defense is an actual strength where ours so far has been a weakness.

    The Thunder are marginally better than us because they are deeper and on balance so much better defensively it makes up for a small gap on offense.

    The Mavs have the two super elite finishers and a nice overall roster. That would be a great series. I think whatever gap exists it’s close between us and them, but I might give them a small edge based on Doncic/Irving and the better defense.

    I definitely would not want to play the 76ers at full strength and in top form. I don’t care what their record is. It’s just hard to measure where we stack up against them at full strength because 2-3 of their big 3 are practically always out and that may continue all season long and effectively keep them out of the playoffs.

    I think teams like the Cavs, Bucks, Nuggets, Magic, Suns and a few others are close enough to us to beat us in a 7 game series without it being a major upset. The league is pretty balanced except for a few terrible teams when you consider everyone at full strength.

    If I were to tier league right now I’d probably go:

    The key words are “right now.” I qualified my posts by saying “end of the year,” and assuming full health. I was not arguing that the Knicks are in a championship tier at the moment. I have more confidence as well in the Mavs than the Warriors…just as I do the Knicks than the Cavs or Orlando. But yes, RIGHT NOW the Warriors, Cavs, and probably Orlando are better.

    For Houston, a “non-hybrid team”, it’s worth noting that 2 of their top-3 in minutes are 29 & 30 years old. They have on/offs of +14 & +9.

    They have internal upside, but a lot of that will go to replacing FVV and Dillon Brooks.

    The Houston players themselves are saying that bringing in the veterans that still had some gas left in the tank is what has turned them around so quickly.

    An odd thing not mentioned yet, and one I don’t believe in, is that the Clippers are doing really well without Kawhi. Athletic ranks them 10th, above Denver and Milwaukee.

    Again, I don’t believe this, but some people seem to think it’s real.

    Dude, if you were a Rocket’s fan you’d be pointing out that Sengun has a worse TS+ this year than RJ Barrett, Amen Thompson can’t even crack the starting 5 on a team that plays Dillin Brooks 31 minutes, and that Udoka is probably cheating on the Celtics staffer with a Clutch City Dancer.

    I would! But I’d also be celebrating having the 5th best defense in NBA history, nestled right between the ’93 and ’94 Knicks. And because it’s based on 6 of the top 8 players being 23 or younger, I’d have reason to project substantial improvement on both ends.

    I’d also note that Sengun’s career TS% is .577, and at age 23 he is a mortal lock to progress towards his mean and likely well past it. I wouldn’t be in much of a hurry to replace Brooks, who is well above OG in DEPM, and I certainly wouldn’t be stressing that Thompson is bad on offense given that he’s 21 years old.

    As for Udoka, I’d be thrilled for him. Thibs probably wouldn’t have so many annoying foibles if he got laid every now and then!

    The Thunder are marginally better than us because they are deeper and on balance so much better defensively it makes up for a small gap on offense.

    Our offense is 7.8 pts better by ORtg. OKC is closer to the Jared McCain led 28th place Philly than they are to us.

    I don’t necessarily think they’ll end up where they are now, they were at 119.5 last year and have fallen to 114.1 this year.

    Not sure what’s going on except maybe they’re playing more defensive personnel/Chet missed a few games. In short, they may be better than we’ve seen so far. What’s the Net Rtg record?

    I’m not buying the recent success of the Clippers and didn’t fully buy the Warriors huge start either. The Warriors are better than the Clippers now, but I’m buying either one as contenders. Maybe if Kawhi comes back and is close to 100% I’ll take the Clippers more seriously (like the 76ers if they ever get healthy), but it seems a bit suspect.

    Our offense is 7.8 pts better by ORtg. OKC is closer to the Jared McCain led 28th place Philly than they are to us.

    I don’t necessarily think they’ll end up where they are now, they were at 119.5 last year and have fallen to 114.1 this year.

    I’m not sure why their offense is underperforming last year so far, but I think they are better than they look on that side – which is scary.

    1. Celts
    2. Thunder
    3. Cavs
    4. Grizz
    5. Rockets
    6. Mavs
    7. Warriors
    8. Knicks
    9. Magic
    10. Clippers

    OKC is significantly better than they’ve been so far.

    The Nrtg+ record is 12.5 for the ’96 Bulls. OKC is currently at 8.8, 14th all time on the strength of their 2nd all time defense.

    If they had last year’s offense they’d be at 11.8 Nrtg+, 2nd all time. Their personnel only got better, so the reasonable expectation is their offense will end up better than last year’s if fully healthy. If not, their huge internal upside will likely get them there next year.

    We are very likely looking at the early stages of the greatest dynasty in NBA history. They have a 70+ win core and are asset billionaires on top. By the time we’re done paying the Nets for Bridges they will likely have 4-5 championships and still a massively better future asset position than us.

    The key words are “right now.” I qualified my posts by saying “end of the year,” and assuming full health. I was not arguing that the Knicks are in a championship tier at the moment. I have more confidence as well in the Mavs than the Warriors…just as I do the Knicks than the Cavs or Orlando. But yes, RIGHT NOW the Warriors, Cavs, and probably Orlando are better.

    I think it’s difficult to project to the end of the year, and we need to put a fair bit of weight into the current rankings.

    The Knicks are still figuring out their defensive scheme and personnel. There’s definitely upside there.

    The Cavs have been consistently great when healthy the past few years. They’re the new Bucks. They underachieve in the postseason until they suddenly don’t.

    Orlando has been missing Banchero for all but 5 games. Extremely small sample, but he put up a 5+ OBPM in those games. Either way, he should help fix the offense.

    I like the Mavs team construction, they may be better built for the playoffs than the regular season. So I agree to an extent.

    I think Houston still has a shooting problem. Teams will crunch the paint against them in the playoffs.

    I wouldn’t write off Memphis. They’re currently top-5 in offense and defense. They’re the only team that can say that right now. They were contenders before all the injuries last season. Bane & Ja haven’t even played that many games yet.

    We are very likely looking at the early stages of the greatest dynasty in NBA history. They have a 70+ win core

    That was pretty much the conventional wisdom about a very young Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka.

    Sh$t happens, including injuries that lose seasons and derail development, budgets/taxes and upsets.

    That was pretty much the conventional wisdom about a very young Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka.

    Sh$t happens, including injuries that lose seasons and derail development, budgets/taxes and upsets.

    And it would have been absolutely right if they had ponied up to keep those guys, which is exactly what Dolan would have had the wherewithal to do if we ever had such a core. That’s why our failure to ever accumulate assets was so maddening — we had the highest possible upside from doing so.

    Presti has greatly improved as a GM since then. If they don’t have enough money to keep Jalen Williams or whatever, they’ll flip him for a boatload of assets and the gravy train rolls on.

    That was pretty much the conventional wisdom about a very young Durant, Harden, Westbrook and Ibaka. Sh$t happens, including injuries that lose seasons and derail development, budgets/taxes and upsets.

    That team didn’t have 5 1st round picks in this year’s draft. (Thunder somehow own the Sixers pick this year from “the Danny Green trade”, even though I don’t remember Danny playing on either team.)

    In one of the NBA2k games (maybe 2k15) I found a flaw in the franchise mode trade AI where teams put too little value on moving up in the draft. You could trade for the next pick up by signing the best available FA (usually a replacement level bench player) and packaging it with the lower pick. Occasionally there’d be a sticking point where you’d have to include, say, a low 1RP or minor player asset to get the next pick up.

    By repeating this trick, it was possible to own, say, the top 5 picks in a given draft. Needless to say, my first move was to firesale every player on the Knicks so that I had almost every lottery pick for a couple of years. When the players matured, the resulting team eventually had multiple 82-0 seasons punctuated by 16-0 playoff runs until I got bored around 2030. Interestingly, we never had an MVP because every player just put up around 18 ppg on like 70% TS.

    OKC has managed to do this, to the extent that it is possible, in the real league.

    Dallas has to be in the championship mix, they went to the finals last year and then got better. Are they being overlooked again?

    I’m not sure they are better. Derrick Jones Jr was a pretty big loss.

    The key words are “right now.” I qualified my posts by saying “end of the year,” and assuming full health

    I meant right now, that is where I think the tiers will be at the end of the season.

    Houston’s a good young team with a bright future but I don’t see them going very far in the playoffs as currently constructed. They’re the #18 offense and lack the elite scoring you need these days in order to make a deep run. Who you giving the ball to in close games on that team?

    They need to consolidate and get a superstar, then they’ll be a contender.

    “That team didn’t have 5 1st round picks in this year’s draft. (Thunder somehow own the Sixers pick this year from “the Danny Green trade”, even though I don’t remember Danny playing on either team.)”

    I would worry (a lot) if you *did* remember him playing for the Thunder, since he never did! However, he played 133 games for the Sixers, starting in 97 of those (24.8 minutes per game), so it’s a little odd that you don’t remember any of that. Then again, he isn’t very memorable.

    “I’m not sure they are better. Derrick Jones Jr was a pretty big loss.”

    Why do you think that? Isn’t he kind a garden variety smallish wing with limited skills? I get he’s a slam dunk champion and all, but I would hardly describe him as a “pretty big loss” when you have essentially replaced him with Naji Marshall, who is probably better. They also added Klay to replace TH2, Grimes to replace Josh Green, will have a full season of Gafford, and Lively is no longer a rookie. Dinwiddie is a solid bench piece (as we saw first hand last week.)

    I think that they are most definitely improved. There was a lot of good fortune involved in them advancing to the finals last year. This year they are more legit.

    Danny Green has always made me furious because I have for years believed there were multiple ‘Danny Greens’ in the league because he’s been around forever (I think 15 years) and played for eight teams (some of them multiple different times) and I suspect changed his look now and again. I just never could believe it was always the same Danny Green.

    Also he’s not very memorable.

    he played 133 games for the Sixers, starting in 97 of those (24.8 minutes per game), so it’s a little odd that you don’t remember any of that

    I didn’t become a lifelong Sixers fan until April, 2024.

    I’ll always remember Danny Green for winning championships in consecutive years—the 1st year for Toronto and the 2nd year for LA.

    He had a reasonable shot at making it 3 years and 3 teams before the 76ers lost to the Hawks in the 2nd round.

    Jones guarded the other team’s best player all the time and made enough of his threes to keep defenses honest. I did forget about Naji, though. You’re probably right. You’re definitely right about Lively. He looks awesome.

    Curious to see if this group can scrape and out compete Magic in the trenches with physicallity, grit and effort like year’s team did.

    Who you giving the ball to in close games on that team?

    I think Sengun and FVV are an excellent pair to close games out with. That’s why I like them so much. They have an army of long athletic defenders and excellent offensive options for the ends of games.

    Memphis is even better. That team’s a nightmare. I’d be worried about their emotional immaturity and potential unreadiness. But they are so talented and hard to match up with. And they were a top 4 NBA team just two years ago, so it’s not like they have no pedigree.

    “It’s even rubbed off on me, despite being born in 1995, based on my conversations with older Knicks fans and reading both When the Garden Was Eden and Blood in the Garden. We want playing the opposing team to leave with some bruises. Hopefully Precious and Mitch bring back that bruiser vibe.”

    Get that, but in conversations with “even older”fans like me, unselfishness was the keyword, defense a somewhat distant second. We seem to have very good early signs of the first.

    Shams:

    The New Orleans Pelicans are waiving guard Elfrid Payton, sources tell ESPN. Payton averaged 6.7 points, 6.9 assists and 3.4 rebounds in seven games for the Pelicans — including a 14-point, 21-assist performance on Nov. 25.

    OAKAAK

    “unselfishness was the keyword, defense a somewhat distant second”

    Much more true for the Willis-Clyde Knicks than the Ewing Knicks.

    I love Sengun as much as the next guy, but comparing him to Jokic—even age 23 Jokic—is absurd. You cannot just project that because Sengun is putting up x BPM now that he will become Jokic 2.0 or better. Jokic has realized his 110%th percentile outcome. Very few players actually do that.

    Sengun is a great passer, definitely one of the better passers from the center position that we’ve seen in recent memory. Jokic is one of the greatest passers at any position ever. He makes passes that 99% of NBA players simply could not make. Sengun also has a nonexistent three ball and wayyyyy less touch than Jokic despite being quite good at that aspect. BPM is also overrating his pretty mediocre defense (which is not a problem for Houston, but would be in a playoff environment.) The +/- AIOs like him way less though they’re still noisy at this point for him. He’s probably a top 30 player currently. Which is great! Houston made a great pick. But he will never, ever be in the same do conversation as Jokic, who is making a case at this very moment as one of the five best players ever. It is literally a privilege to be alive at the same time as him.

    At the risk of validating E too much: Houston as currently constructed is a genuine example of a low upside, built for the regular season, hustlebunny team. Neither FVV or Sengun are going to strike fear into your heart in crunch time scenarios and everyone else is just a guy who will be mercilessly sagged off of come playoff time. They’re very good but a step away (and I think Memphis is too.) I would place them in the same tier as us and Orlando, currently. I think we have better upside this year than pretty much any other team in our tier though.

    I love Sengun as much as the next guy, but comparing him to Jokic—even age 23 Jokic—is absurd. You cannot just project that because Sengun is putting up x BPM now that he will become Jokic 2.0 or better. Jokic has realized his 110%th percentile outcome. Very few players actually do that.

    I didn’t say Sengun will definitely be 100% as good as Jokic in his prime. I said that he is comparable to Jokic at the same age. In their third seasons, they each did this:

    Jokic
    per36: 20.4/11.8/6.7 and 2.2 stocks
    .603 TS, 6.9 BPM

    Sengun
    per36: 23.4/10.4/5.5 and 2.1 stocks
    .585 TS, 4.9 BPM

    Obviously Jokic’s improvement from that high starting point was improbable, and pretty much unprecedented as it relates to passing and shooting efficiency, but just the fact that Sengun isn’t far off is very impressive.

    If KP was putting up numbers like that in year 3 this board would have looked like a P Diddy sex party.

    I might be too enthused about the Rockets but not Memphis. They’re closer to OKC than us and Orlando.

    Obviously Jokic’s improvement from that high starting point was improbable, and pretty much unprecedented as it relates to passing and shooting efficiency, but just the fact that Sengun isn’t far off is very impressive.

    He’s worth 70% of Jokic by the metric you included. It’s 58% if we go by OBPM under the pretty reasonable assumption that the defensive value is misattributed from Eason, Thompson, FVV, and Brooks’s defense.

    He’s a discount Jokic during a Black Friday sale when they need to clear the shelves for a new model.

    Hey CDiggy, always appreciate it when you get a chance to mock your ‘pals’ over the Lakers. Been enjoying it of late?

    He’s a discount Jokic during a Black Friday sale when they need to clear the shelves for a new model.

    Ok but even that is better than any player in the history of our team except Brunson, King, prime Ewing, and the very tip top peak of Carmelo Anthony.

    With this year’s 7.4 BPM he’d be our franchise GOAT. Jokic being much better is more a commentary on how amazing Jokic is.

    Ok but even that is better than any player in the history of our team except Brunson, King, prime Ewing, and the very tip top peak of Carmelo Anthony.

    With this year’s 7.4 BPM he’d be our franchise GOAT. Jokic being much better is more a commentary on how amazing Jokic is.

    Which is why we don’t use BPM.

    Sengun is not worth 3.3 DBPM. He’s surrounded by a bunch of elite defenders and BPM shrugs its shoulders and says, “If he’s on the floor he gets the same amount of credit.” Is it Sengun or is it Eason, Brooks, FVV, and Thompson? It’s a mystery to BPM.

    Which is why we don’t use BPM.

    Ok but Sengun is actually pretty good defensively, EPM has him as an 89th percentile defender

    Amusing comparisons that only increase the doubt around AIO numbers…

    Why? Hart has played out of his mind and Brown has played poorly by his standards. It shouldn’t be surprising that AIOs like Hart.

    Similarly, Pritchard has played out of his mind while Brunson hasn’t been quite as great as he was last season.

    Ok but Sengun is actually pretty good defensively, EPM has him as an 89th percentile defender

    Which is a big step down from saying he’s the 2nd best defender in the league, having the 60th best defensive season of any NBA player ever, a better defensive season than Ewing or Gobert ever had and just a smidge behind Ben Wallace’s best season.

    Coincidentally, this season Tari Eason is 1st, Thompson is 5th, and FVV is 15th.

    https://x.com/hyattwatcher/status/1864012009575985219?t=PwnzuDmjGSSfpGpZCNKaqA&s=19

    Amusing comparisons that only increase the doubt around AIO numbers…

    Which is why we don’t think much of BPM. The problem is that DARKO and EPM (as of this season) don’t isolate seasons. They use data from previous seasons to inform their player evaluations. So if I want to see how someone is doing this season, and only this season, OBPM is readily available.

    DARKO is much higher on Brunson and Brown than Pritchard and Hart.

    EPM is much higher on Brown than Hart and much higher on Brunson than Pritchard. Weirdly, EPM is higher on Pritchard than Brown. I remain a little skeptical of EPM following this offseason’s rework.

    Of course, Pritchard is playing insanely well, and Brown does have a 96 TS+ right now.

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