[ESPN] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:04:19 GMT
- Knicks vs. Hawks (Jul 20, 2024) Live Score
- Win totals, 2024-25 MVP odds show strong support for Timberwolves, Anthony Edwards
- Sixers Season Win Total Set at 52.5
- Gamblers and sports books show confidence in Nuggets as 2024-25 win totals are set
- NBA futures odds: Sportsbooks set New Orleans Pelicans 2024/25 win total
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 21:31:45 GMT
- New York Knicks Announce Signing of Nine-Year NBA Veteran
- Knicks roster analysis: Cameron Payne signs, Precious Achiuwa lingers and more – The Athletic
- Police report details what led to arrest of former Phoenix Suns player in Scottsdale
- Knicks Backup Point Guard Depth Shines
- Knicks signing veteran guard Cameron Payne to one-year deal
[Posting and Toasting] – Sun, 21 Jul 2024 00:05:53 GMT
- Knicks 90, Hawks 82: Despite slow start, the Summerbockers end Summer League with a third straight win
- New York Knicks vs Atlanta Hawks Jul 20, 2024 Box Scores
- SL Game Preview: Summer Knicks vs. Atlanta Hawks, July 20, 2024
- Summer League: New York Knicks vs. Atlanta Hawks odds, picks and predictions
- New York Knicks vs Atlanta Hawks Prediction NBA Picks 7/20/24
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 17:00:00 GMT
- Why New York Knicks Aren’t Signing Precious Achiuwa Yet
- Thunder have opportunity to hurt the Knicks in NBA free agency yet again
- 3 Mock Trades for the New York Knicks to Improve Their Frontcourt
- Knicks Urged to Sign Former Starter as Isaiah Hartenstein Replacement
- Why Knicks Aren’t Signing Precious Achiuwa Yet
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 12:03:02 GMT
New York Knicks Urged to Sign Former All-Star
[ESPN] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 22:04:18 GMT
Knicks 90-82 Hawks (Jul 20, 2024) Box Score
[Sports Illustrated] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 14:00:04 GMT
- Knicks Win Over Reggie Miller With Offseason Moves
- Reggie Miller praises Knicks’ offseason, asks fans to ‘pause’ Bronny James hate
- Knicks Media Roundup: Remaining offseason questions, praise from Reggie Miller, and Hart quotable again
- Trey Songz Defends Bronny James Against The Haters After First NBA Summer League Games
- Reggie Miller Defends Bronny James amid Criticism of His Summer League Stats: ‘Pause on the Bronny Hate’
[Daily Knicks] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 21:00:02 GMT
Former Knicks forward who was supposed to fill void last season signs overseas
[Empire Sports Media] – Sat, 20 Jul 2024 15:13:16 GMT
Knicks may have their solution at center stashed in the G-League
51 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2024.07.21)”
After a mediocre Olympic Qualyfiers* and a couple of bad-to-indifferent SL games Rokas raised his play in the last three games, one of the best stretches from a “continuity of play” POV of his career.
His confidence grew and he start “letting it fly” on offense, while defense was steady (and better than Kolek’s) and the biggest con were stretches of “turnover proneness”.
This is probably the best he’s been in the last season (and maybe since 2021-2022) and he showed not only skills, but boldness instead of his “flatness” of late.
I think he raised his value (hooray!) and now Leon and Co. have three potential avenues to go:
– Keep him as a safety blanket in case other backcourt players are traded or injuries struck. It’d be a better use of the 13th-15th roster spot than everything we had last year but he could disagree and choose to go play more in Europe.
– Consider him a trade chip in a preseason package for the elusive backup-C**. From his career perspective he could find more playing time on a tanking/rebuilding team or someone with holes in the backcourt bench.
– Let him go back to Europe and delay the final decision while still retaining his rights, who can be traded during the season even if he’s playing overseas.
* Albeit against national teams more organized than SL teams
** In an ideal world I still think we need at least a borderline low-end starter more than a pure backup, due to Mitch’s injury history, but I’ll not be surprised if they let the chips fall with this roster (plus Achiuwa?) and then reassess.
Max, The one thing that works in Rokas’ favor is his age. As Bob pointed out, Rokas is only a few months older than Kolek. He’s also bigger and a better athlete. But the lack of development in Europe is still a thing. The turnovers in summer league are also a thing.
If Rokas was fine with an end-of-bench developmental role, I’d be interested to find out if he had any more room for improvement. I just don’t see that happening, but if it does, good for us! But I think he’s closer to his ceiling than Kolek, and as has been pointed out, Kolek is already under long-term contract.
I also wonder if it would be awkward for Rokas to be on a team with no other euros and shuttled back and forth between the end of the bench and the G-League. Seems like playing in Lithuania would be much more of a fit. If that’s the way he goes, at some point, he needs to be a prominent starter at that level. Nothing in his Euro stats has suggested that he is NBA-ready, and summer league is summer league.
Given the Knicks’ recent history of developing players I think Rokas needs to stay and learn in the NBA, even if he doesn’t get to play much.
These “who will be on the end of the bench” conversations are fun, but the pall hanging over the team is the “who will be our C tandem” issue. I want to believe in Precious and Sims but we really need another big body. I’m pretty out on Huk and Dmytro, but if Thibs et. al. feel otherwise, that’s good enough for me. I would just hate to go into the season with what we have right now, especially with Mitch’s ankle feeling like a time bomb.
Been away the last couple of days, but i’d like to thank everyone for all the great pickup basketball stories. 🙂
I think our 3rd stringers can be: Kolek, Rokas, Dadiet, Bates-Diop and Sims. And i also think Rokas wants to come to the Knicks, even if he only plays garbage time. Max can correct me if i’m wrong but i always had the sense that Rokas’ game is more tailored to the NBA than to european basketball, that is a lot more physical.
But of course, Z-Man is right, what’s important right now is who will our C tandem be. I’m starting to think it’ll be Mitch and Achiuwa to start the season and then we’ll address it until the trade deadline. The price to do it before the season starts probably doesn’t justify making the move now.
Timofey Mozgov only just turned 38, maybe he’s our guy?
cyber, hope you were having fun! The good news is, Queta dominated summer league in the two games he played. The bad news is that it demonstrates how little stock we should put in anything Huk and Skap did there.
Yes, thanks. Yesterday was a sunset party for the 50th bday of one of my closest friends, and i got to see some of our friends from college, some i hadn’t seen in more than a decade. It was great! 🙂
Too bad we didn’t get him last offseason when the Kings released him, but he still has a way to go, or else he wouldn’t be playing in SL.
About your pickup game at the Knicks facility, it’d be even better if it was a 3×3 and Mills was watching, it could have changed your career! 😉 😀
Also virtually meaningless but still nice!
What NBA player is close to his peak by his 23rd birthday? For years on this board people have railed against the notion of mid priced mercenaries and no development of young players.
Here we have a chance to sign him to a small contract (maybe multiple years) take Rokas (who has shot 41% from 3 in his Euro career) and let him develop under no pressure to play big minutes on what we believe to be a contender. If he develops… great. If he doesn’t they loose a few bucks and very minor flexibility.
I don’t see the downside in signing him. Or , why it has to be a choice between him and Kolek. Or why we should root for one versus the other.
I agree Z-Man,
after his 6th professional season, all with EL teams (4th as a true rotation player) and playing around 70-80 games a year, Rokas is already a “young veteran” much more than a player to develop, and after his first season at Barcelona, where he won EL Player Of The Year, he stalled.
To me Kolek, while close in age, has more room to improve.
I think you’re right Cyber,
Rokas somewhat showed that the pick&roll heavy, more free NBA style fits him better, at least in term of numbers.
If he can bring his newfound eagerness to shoot back to Europe he’s going to have a good season…
“What NBA player is close to his peak by his 23rd birthday?”
Does Frank Ntilikina ring a bell? Kevin Knox?
I’m not contesting your position, which I can agree to, it’s a little investment for the Knicks, but just for the sake of information those are Euroleague-only numbers.
His total numbers (including ACB) are a little lower, in the last 3 season with Barca he shot a tick short of 40% (39.8% still good!) on small volume, 311 3FG in 228 games (116 ACB, 112 EL).
I didn’t bother searching for his FIBA numbers (Eurobasket, World Cup, Olympics…). 🙂
As a note, in the same 3-years span Kolek played 99 NCAA games (does BB-Ref include NCAA tournament games in its totals?).
It takes two to tango. The FO has to want Rokas to come over, and Rokas has to want to come over. Among the factors:
1. We have two big league roster spots left, but one of them is almost certainly going to Precious or another big man, and Leon often prefers to keep the 15th spot empty to make it easier to make multi-player trades.
2. We technically have two of the two-way spots available, but Jacob Toppin is probably getting one of those, based on them making him the qualifying offer, and you have to assume the other one is earmarked for Kevin McCullar, unless he’s just not going to be healthy this season.
3. I’d give one of those deals to Rokas ahead of either Toppin or McCullar, but does Rokas want to come over here to be on a fringe contract, on a team where his realistic path to minutes with the big club would require an even bigger chain of injuries than what happened to us in these playoffs, and where even if he was willing to spend most of the year playing in Westchester, he’s not even guaranteed to be the starting point guard because the team has made a bigger investment in Kolek?
Rokas might want to just go back to Europe for another year, and hope that the Knicks trade his rights elsewhere.
They certainly do as players who are wild exceptions that confirm the rule. I wouldn’t venture to know how to do the data analysis, but I don’t think I’m going way out on a limb saying the vast majority of NBA players are much better at 27 than 23.
Even with his insane degree of suckitude, Knox TS% and win shares/48 @ 24 were way above his career averages.
Can you envision at trade we would make with more players coming in than going out where it would be necessary to keep a slot open? That train has left the station, I think.
I believe his contract for Barcelona was 250,000Euros/yr, so the minimum NBA contract must look pretty sweet….
Actually, the vast majority of players who have played professional ball for years and yet still suck at age 23 go on to suck for the rest of their careers. They might suck less at age 27, but probably marginally at best.
If your premise is that we should develop Rokas in the hope that he’ll be good at age 27, that is not a timeline that Leon probably has in mind. Now if they think that he is on track to be one of the rare exceptions to the “sucks at 23.5, likely to suck at 27” rule, sure, but then you have to get Rokas to agree to play mostly in dingy, boring Westchester rather than to develop further in Europe, possibly in his home country.
As to college-level players, Kolek was dominant in college, so it remains to be see how he adapts to the pros. Most 23yo second rounders don’t pan out, but he already set an assist/turnover mark in summer league, so there’s hope. But he’s got a long way to go on D before Thibs will play him in anything but garbage time minutes.
I watched most of our summer league games and have mixed feelings about our team.
— we ended up over .500 despite having no second round players and our only first round pick was number twenty five. So, big picture wise, that should make us worse than average but we actually weren’t worse than average. That says something good about our recruiting and scouting . On the other hand, we seemed to win some games because of our summer league team’s depth For example, even though Atlanta was really trying to finally win a game, our summer league bench players held them off. But even if our scouting and recruiting found a bunch of near NBA players, it’s hard to believe they are good enough to be useful to an NBA roster if they don’t even start for. A summer league team.
—On the subject of Huk and Skapintsev, I thought both were good and both could possible be third or fourth string centers on an NBA team. I didn’t see many other summer league teams than the Knicks, but all the good summer league performances I’ve read of were from players who are signed (Edey, Kessler and Queta come to mind). I don’t know which of our two I would pick, but I think it’s possible the choice might be made for us. Some tram that needs a third string center might pick up Skapintsev, who I think is a free agent, on a two way or a minimum contract. Maybe the Bucks, for example.
— when it comes to Rokas and Kolek, They were both good. I’d like to keep both of them, but I agree it doesn’t seem likely. I’m not worried about Rojas slow start in the first two games. He arrived late because of playing Olympic qualifiers and I suspect it took him a bit to adjust.
Interesting note from Begley:
Eh, Begley’s been wrong about this stuff before, but good for Kolek if true. Makes his contract make more sense.
If I was Rokas, I’d probably stay in Europe because of Kolek and his contract. Ty clearly has been earmarked for some role, so Rokas would be better off getting traded at this point. Fortunately he had a nice SL, so maybe Ainge or some other GM will want him now… Maybe Charlotte in a Nick Richards trade?
Fortunately he had a nice SL, so maybe Ainge or some other GM will want him now…
Can’t off the top of my head remember anyone traded right after a good SL performance. Seems akin to drafting someone because of a good 3-on-3 workout. But could see it in Rokas’ case because of the somewhat unique positions both he and the Knicks are in.
https://sny.tv/articles/knicks-mailbag-tyler-kolek-miles-mcbride-cam-payne
As always, I would suggest clicking on the whole thing, even if you don’t intend to read the rest of it. A few other things of note from Ian here:
1. Even with Kolek as the backup point guard, Ian doesn’t expect him to play much with a healthy rotation, since Thibs prefers to play nine guys.
2. “On the backup center spot, the Knicks have remained in regular contact with free agent Precious Achiuwa. Achiuwa has drawn interest from opposing teams, including some contenders.” (He also thinks the team would prefer to resolve the backup center issue before the season starts, but also acknowledges that Leon tends to be prudent. So if the only options now are wild overpays, my guess is it’s just Precious.)
I find that weird and surprising. Starting the season with an established and relatively decent back-up point guard with lots of experience and a raw rookie with talent but lots of question marks and putting the latter ahead of the former to start out?
I could see a spirited competition, with Kolek given every opportunity to take the back-up position, but it seems odd as the starting point. But what do I know.
Shams is reporting that Biden is dropping out of the race lol. Did he really steal this breaking news?
Are we just assuming Rokas sucks? Despite the TOs and an underwhelming first 2 games, he had a very good SL.
He averaged 18.5 pts/36 on 57% from the field. For reference, Kolek was at 12 pts/36 on a woeful 35.6% from the field. DuDu Washington was at 23 & 41%.
Rokas has 7.2 ast/36 to Kolek’s 9.3 per 36.
Rokas also averaged over 2 stls/36.
The TO numbers were really bad but SL tends to be sloppy, and TOs is a number that improves with age. Yes, even after 23.
Rokas had a good showing.
The Biden news is out in a couple of places. Apparently from a note from Biden on X. Tiny headline on the online NYT at the moment. I presume everyone is scrambling to verify.
You can frame the discussion any way you like but I just don’t understand why you can’t concede the vast majority of pro hoopsters are no where near their peak at 23. You say players that suck still suck (maybe suck slightly less). That assumed the player sucked to begin with.
Barca signed him to a 1+1+1+1 4 year contract where he could opt out any season. What was their interest in honing him into a better player where he immediately jumps to the NBA? They are better served if he remains a AAAA player and plays the majority of his career for them at a reasonable price.
That is your bastardization of my position, not my position. My position is they have an asset in Rokas. How much of an asset is subject of conjecture, but they should be doing everything in their power to maximize it. Having him play three seasons in Europe hasn’t increased his value. Maybe you are correct and he is a AAAA player. Maybe if he gets coached up here and plays 30 games in the G league, finds his mojo and becomes Miles Mc Bride.
The definition of insanity is repeating the same action and excepting a different result. I think he has enough tools where he is a better developmental risk than the flotsam and jetsam they usually have at the end of the bench for the 14th and 15th slots for short money.
https://x.com/JoeBiden/status/1815080881981190320
If in his own mind he isn’t competent to run for re election when he already has the nomination sewn up, how can he not resign?
KB, my source for breaking news
For some reason Blumpkin news always has it first
goodness bob, have heart…i thought you were a bit more of a complex thinker than that…
Heart? Where does heart come into this? The President is the most powerful man in the world. Biden’s highly diminished capacity has been on display clearly the past 3 weeks to where even Ray Charles can see he isn’t mentally capable of discharging his duties.
This is precisely what the 25th Amendment is for. And I am arguing to give VP Harris the seat as is Constitutionally proper.
Gross
any one know why summer league is only 5 or so games long…it seems like a really short period of time…
not much in the way of men’s basketball programing this time of year (minus international competitions)…
was i the only fan desperate enough to watch summer league games…maybe, except for a few others here 🙂
i’m not that fond of summer 3 on 3 competitions…
and so the/our past repeats?
edit: shush please…
That’s actually an interesting question….
i love you bob 🙂
it’s been a while since i’ve watched one, but i remember a few MLB all-star games that were competitive and fun…
nfl, nba not so much…i don’t really watch a bunch of hockey or soccer/futbol so i don’t know…
last night’s team usa/wnba all-stars was a fantastic game…competitively played throughout, pretty high level basketball…
arike ogunbowale’s performance in the second half was electrifying, team usa double teamed her (in an all-star game), and it didn’t matter…honestly, i first noticed her in a commercial with mark cuban, it was funny, she was great…
since then when i catch the dallas wings play, she always stands out, she has a great handle and a bunch of different shots…
Easy there, big fella….
https://marcstein.substack.com/p/the-latest-nba-free-agency-extensions?triedRedirect=true
Stein: “There was a strong expectation in the desert that a contract extension for Knicks coach Tom Thibodeau will be announced in the near future… has been regarded for weeks as a lock to receive a new deal that pays at least $10M annually”
A bit weird that it hasn’t happened yet, though.
From what I’ve read, Rokas feels like he’s ready to play in the NBA and wants to play in the NBA. What kind of role he’s willing accept is specualtion. He may want a steady backup job. But if he’s willing to be 3rd man off the bench, IMO it would be criminal if he isn’t on the team or used as a trade asset. IMO he belongs on the bench for some NBA team.
If the news that Kolek will be the backup is true (and I see no reason for that to not be the case), I’m even less sure why they signed Payne unless they want to use him in a trade eventually at his bargin price. He’s not really a PG to begin with and I’d rather have Rokas on the team than Payne. Rokas has more upside than Payne.
Either way, if there’s a bit of bench glut forming (not in a bad way because depth is good). I don’t think they should waste Rokas. There has to be a team out there that wants him after this summer league. Maybe he can be part of the deal for a C.
Y’all see Kevin Knox’s line today?:
30 min, 12-17 fg, 5-10 3pt, 11 boards, 2 blocks, 31 points.
Summer League Knox is the new Olympic Melo.
I think Thibs getting a contract extension is like you RSVPing for your brother’s wedding. Everyone involved knows it’s going to happen so you actually don’t bother doing it and can just show up.
Footlocker really fucked up their branding. They really needed a logosmith. Every time I see one it looks fake.
The she crab soup at gage and Tollner is fucking awesome
Ol’ buddy Trevor Keels in 3 quarters:
18 minutes, 6-8 fg, 4-5 from three, 2 assists, 16 points.
Edit: make that 22 points now.
Ended up with the chocolate caramel tort with malted milk and the baked Alaska. I’m just more and more a chocolate guy the older I get.
you got me with the she crab soup clarence – I had to look that one up it sounded so good…
you have me convinced you are a serious foodie, and I love it…
that’s right, talk food to me baby 😊
Geo, I love craft. Food at the top of the list of crafts that wiggle my wag. The she crab soup at G&T is pretty fucking epic I have not ever had it anywhere else but really can’t imagine it being much better. Theirs’ is the orgiastic dance of the ineluctable dulcet promise of sweet cream, the alive as fuck deep salt sweetness of crab and the mustachioed panty dropping sherry voice that narrates a Guillermo del torro movie. Quite good actually.