[Newsday] — Tuesday, November 7, 2023 5:02:04 AM
Syosset’s Stephanie Mincone joins Knicks City Dancers Newsday
[ESPN Australia] — Tuesday, November 7, 2023 3:29:44 AM
Clippers 97-111 Knicks (7 Nov, 2023) Final Score ESPN Australia
[WYMT] — Tuesday, November 7, 2023 3:05:00 AM
Knicks vs. Spurs Injury Report Today – November 8 WYMT
[NBA.com] — Tuesday, November 7, 2023 1:51:33 AM
Clippers-Knicks: 5 takeaways from James Harden’s debut NBA.com
[New York Post ] — Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:59:00 AM
RJ Barrett admits to lingering knee issue after making Knicks history New York Post
[sny.tv] — Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:19:13 AM
Knicks Notes: RJ Barrett’s lingering knee soreness, preparing for … sny.tv
[NBA.com] — Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:03:04 AM
James Harden debuts with 17 points as Clippers fall to Knicks NBA.comJames Harden Clippers debut: Knicks spoil the fun, RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson steal the show CBS SportsJulius Randle breaks out to help Knicks spoil James Harden’s Clippers debut New York Post
[New York Post ] — Monday, November 6, 2023 10:45:00 PM
Joel Embiid is well aware of Knicks chatter: ex-teammate PJ Tucker New York Post
[New York Post ] — Monday, November 6, 2023 10:20:00 PM
Julius Randle breaks out to help Knicks spoil James Harden’s Clippers debut New York Post James Harden to make Clippers debut Monday vs. Knicks – ESPN ESPNJames Harden could create issues for Kawhi Leonard and Clippers Los Angeles Times
[Posting and Toasting] — Monday, November 6, 2023 10:19:48 PM
Knicks 111, Clippers 97: Scenes from second half splendor Posting and Toasting
[Sports Illustrated] — Monday, November 6, 2023 10:08:54 PM
LA Clippers Player Suffers Injury vs. Knicks Sports Illustrated
[The Edwardsville Intelligencer] — Monday, November 6, 2023 10:02:21 PM
N.Y. Knicks 111, L.A. Clippers 97 The Edwardsville Intelligencer
[Bleacher Report] — Monday, November 6, 2023 10:00:28 PM
James Harden scores 17 Points vs. New York Knicks | Highlights … Bleacher Report
[sny.tv] — Monday, November 6, 2023 9:52:53 PM
Knicks takeaways from Monday’s 111-97 win over Clippers, including a huge second-half surge sny.tv
[USA TODAY] — Monday, November 6, 2023 8:18:22 PM
James Harden makes Clippers debut, scores 17 points in loss … USA TODAY
[Sports Illustrated] — Monday, November 6, 2023 7:09:52 PM
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[Covers] — Monday, November 6, 2023 6:26:00 PM
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[FanSided] — Monday, November 6, 2023 5:16:07 PM
NBA rumors: Knicks in a ‘civil war,’ Durant likes Presti’s OKC plan, Kerr’s last run for gold FanSided
[Sports Illustrated] — Monday, November 6, 2023 4:19:21 PM
New York Knicks Make A Roster Move – Fastbreak on FanNation Sports Illustrated
[Wisconsin Sports Heroics] — Monday, November 6, 2023 4:11:30 PM
Milwaukee Bucks HC Adrian Griffin Plays Down Integral Adjustment … Wisconsin Sports Heroics
[Posting and Toasting] — Monday, November 6, 2023 4:00:00 PM
P&T Player of the Week for Oct. 29 – Nov 4: Jalen Brunson Posting and Toasting
[New York Post ] — Monday, November 6, 2023 3:49:00 PM
Possible reasons for Josh Hart’s frustrating Knicks slump: ‘Feeling different’ New York Post
[CBS Sports] — Monday, November 6, 2023 3:30:40 PM
Watch New York Knicks vs. Los Angeles Clippers: How to live stream, TV channel, start time for Monday’s NBA game CBS Sports
[Sports Illustrated] — Monday, November 6, 2023 1:45:09 PM
Could Signing Taj Gibson Help Solve Knicks, Randle Woes? Sports Illustrated
[Posting and Toasting] — Monday, November 6, 2023 1:28:11 PM
P&T Interview with Knicks Legend, Rory Sparrow, Part 3 Posting and Toasting
[SportsLine] — Monday, November 6, 2023 1:00:00 PM
Clippers vs. Knicks prediction, odds, line, spread, start time: 2023 NBA picks, November 6 best bets from proven … SportsLine
[NBC Sports] — Monday, November 6, 2023 11:10:48 AM
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[USA TODAY Sportsbook Wire] — Monday, November 6, 2023 10:05:00 AM
Los Angeles Clippers at New York Knicks odds, picks and predictions USA TODAY Sportsbook Wire
153 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.11.07)”
Nice to see shades of good Julius. It was from great but it was a hell of an uptick.
So after the vaunted 7 game start to the season, Knicks are 3-4. I think we’d all have been fine with that, especially with Randle and Brunson mostly playing like crap.
Anyway, Knicks currently have the 6th best SRS because of their 2nd ranked defense and the 4th most difficult SOS so far.
The offense is 28th but should improve when Brunson & Randle’s numbers start catching up with their talent level.
A truly great Pagliacci post got threaded by the game thread.
I say we start a Patreon for him, and once a month he gives us a feature on famous figure in Knicks history would play poker.
We all know about Mitch’s limitations as a scorer, and how that in turn can create huge spacing problems in a lineup also featuring Jalen, Julius, and RJ. But my god, he has become so dominant in every other facet of the game, offensive rebounding in particular, that he’s a joy to watch. This is the guy we’ve all been dreaming on since he got drafted with the 2nd rounder we got in the Melo trade.
Thanks, Scott Perry!
A few Pluses and Minuses so far
1. The defense has been better so far this season (a stated internal goal for the year).
2. The offense looked good in the 2nd half. Maybe it’s turning.
3. RJ
Plus: Seems to be playing a little more controlled and is making shots
Minus – We’ll see how we feel when he stops shooting 44% from 3 and if he has a 1-20 stretch with some real trash mixed in.
4. Randle
Plus: Showed some signs of life last night
Minus: Still prone to bad drive, pass, and shot decisions. still doesn’t fit with RJ and Mitch, and still on the team
DDV:
Plus: Exactly the kind of player that fits these Knicks; has impactful stretches on both sides
Minus: Taking minutes from Grimes and Quickley. One is younger and has more upside and the other is already better than him.
Brunson:
Plus: We need at least one almost real PG
Minus: Does not quite look the same to me so far around the basket. I hoping it’s random.
Mitch:
Plus: Huge impact on both sides
Minus: None
Quickley:
Plus: Looks to have taken another small step forward
Minus: Still too pigeon holed as a backup PG, losing minutes to DDV (neither is his fault and imo both are wrong)
Any time someone starts a sentence with “we all know” my brain automatically finishes it with Eli Cash saying “Custer died at Little Bighorn.”
Quickley’s BPM is 4.2 so far (and he’s not even shooting well from 3 yet), but they didn’t extend him, he’s fighting for minutes, and he could be a player on his way out if they find a trade at the deadline or in the off season. I still don’t get any of it.
Hubert, there is an homage to that scene in my OC book.
IQ is only shooting 50% within 3ft, which should also improve.
On the other hand, he’s shooting far over 60% from 3-10 and 11-16, which won’t hold. He also takes almost 3x as many shots from there as at the basket.
That 4th quarter tho!!
Also..I’m so proud we have Mitch. Gonna be tough to see him leave when Leon makes his move for Embiid
The first 4 minutes of the 4th quarter. Wow.
That 2nd unit was DOMINANT. What they did to the Clippers is praiseworthy. It was the defense. It was the crisp passing. It was crashing the boards.
After sitting through much of the Jets disaster, watching the Knicks sweetened my dreams.
IQ’s camp was never going to let him sign then. Do you think he’s a $25M per season player? Well that’s what he could demand on the open market and the Knicks don’t have that cap space now. This was always coming down to the offseason. Once Fournier is off the books they will have the money. The same scenario will play out with Grimes next year.
Also, IQ isn’t fighting for any minutes. He knows exactly when and how he’s going to be used. Thibs is absolutely consistent in how he’s using every player.
A few notes from the game:
Julius did good. Not great, but a huge improvement from previous games. He went from the aggravatingly tentative at the start, as per earlier, to going hard to the hole (largely missing earlier), to taking shots in rhythm, mostly (also missing earlier — both taking and making).
He was still making Bad Julius decisions, including getting stripped regularly (no real surprise against the Clips, notorious thieves — pay attention Jules!), but he went from a D- to a B- in a single game (apologies to Max; and going 27-10 for a B- means I have big expectations).
Meanwhile Barrett started super aggressive, which frightened me (that’s often been a recipe for disaster for the lad), but fell into a rhythm with the team where he hardly ever felt like he was taking the wrong shot. For coming back from two games off, it was a really strong game.
The Nova Dogs (JHart and Donte) seemed to get every loose ball, and Mitch seemed to have his fingers on every pass, shot, and rebound.
Everyone else did their jobs, except Brunson, who had an uncharacteristic stinker and it totally didn’t matter.
For a taste of non Knicks fans view the Knicks, this article is interesting. RJ even gets some respect.
https://elitesportsny.com/2023/11/06/new-york-knicks-vs-los-angeles-clippers-preview-analysis-prediction/
Time for another round of Fun With Small Sample Sizes!
Two of those guys are Hall of Famers, the other two were All-Stars at least once (and both arguably left some meat on the bone in their careers, relative to their talent).
Macri is stumping for Mitch to make the All-Star team this season. I’m trying to imagine how that would happen.
Knicks Fan, this made me snort my coffee:
“Barrett isn’t a complete analytics darling…”
(I have to admit I’m a bit miffed that my favorite game, “Make fun of RJ,” has been tabled [for the time being at least…])
The thing that stands out to me about RJ so far this season is his improved decision making. Not forcing the issue, taking pull ups when the lane is clogged. Plus he’s making his foul shots!
Very nice start for young Rowan.
lot of the numbers are still settling obviously….. especially anyone not getting starter minutes since they just have miniscule volume… so can’t really say anything one way or the other on any of them….
randle is gonna play better than he did… and this was one of those games… for a ‘good’ game tho it wasn’t all that great… and he’s going to need to play much better… any regression from him is going to be deeply felt so he’s got a long climb to turn things around….
brunson’s play is not worrying…. but we really need him to step forward.. so if he is also having a tough time… and it seems that he’s getting different kinds of attention…. then that also does not bode well for us….
we can replicate last year if our defense is good and survive randle’s regression (if it’s a small one)… but that means a couple players really need to step up… RJ seems like he’s doing it but likely not to this current level…. and brunson also needs to take another step forward… that’s still very possible but he’s also doing some adjusting to the different attention he’s getting…. and it’s unclear if he’ll perform better…
if he doesn’t then we’re likely a .500 team… and the offense will be the anchor that keeps us there…
We really needed this win for the vibes
IQ has been improving his game every year and imo has looked even better so far this year, but his minutes are down this year. I have a problem with that.
His minutes are down because we added DDV.
This is exactly why I’ve been saying I really like DDV and there are going to be games we are really happy we have him, but we have other players that can impact games also that are going to get fewer minutes.
IMO, IQ is the superior player and Grimes has more upside.
I’d rather have a team of Quickly, Grimes, JHart and a backup PF that can add value off the bench when we don’t have a good matchup than adding DDV to a mix that was already satisfactory
Guys will miss games, there will be plenty of times IQ will play 30+ mins.
Yeah RJ does seem to be benefitting from some shooting luck right now.
He’s probably not going to shoot 44% from 3 this year but maybe he’ll shoot 39%? His FT shooting is probably improving, and maybe he’s got some more effective shots in the paint
If anyone was wondering, Mitch’s TS% collapse is most likely because he’s 6-20 on tip shots.
Historically he’s been better on those, so hopefully it turns around or he needs to start actually coming down with them.
Team stats for NYK are all over the place compared to last year’s team. We’re generating tons of steals, but hardly any blocks. The guys getting most of the steaks are the two big men. We’re a dominant rebounding team, #1 in DRB% and #2 in ORB%.
So in general we’re doing the “have more possessions than the other team” thing even better than last year, and the only real problem is that we’re having lots of difficulty throwing the ball into the basket. There’s a flip side to the complaints from people like me that we have too many low usage players: just about everybody who isn’t one of the high usage guys is a good-to-excellent defender. Grimes, DDV, Mitch, iHart, JHart can all really defend and Quickley is a two-way player who also defends well, so I’m of the mind that the defensive improvements are somewhat sustainable. I’m not sure if we’re truly the #2 defensive team in the league but we are pretty stout on that side of the ball.
Macri has made the Revis Island comparison for Mitch: he’s barely getting any blocks because teams have become extremely reluctant to shoot anywhere near him. I have no idea if the Synergy stats back this up, but it fits the eye test.
(Also fitting the eye test? RJ’s decision making is much better. We’ll see if the shooting numbers hold up, but he has drastically reduced the number of plays per game that make me want to tear my hair out over what he’s doing. The current version of RJ is very much a useful player.)
I continue to find the “we have too many quality guards” gripe unrelatable. The absolute worst thing you can say about the situation is “when we are at 100% health, there will be nights when Quickley plays a little bit less than he would on a team with more positional balance.”
Seems fine? Quickley, Hart, DDV, and RJ all made major contributions to the win last night. If they all keep playing like this, we’ll be glad we have them all.
There will also obviously be some kind of trade at some point. The current roster structure doesn’t lend itself to contention, but it also wouldn’t if we didn’t use the MLE on Divo, and we would be worse.
I don’t really have an issue with the minutes distribution so far because to me, DiVincenzo has pretty much simply replaced Obi’s minutes, Obi used to play around 17-18, and DDV is playing around 19 a game so far. I think last night showed that DDV, Hart and Quickley can not only coexist on the court but be very impactful together, all 3 bring ball handling, very good hustle and defense and they can all shoot a little, that lineup with those 3 + Hartenstein was really impressive in the 2nd half. It might be tougher against a team with more size than the Clippers, who are also a team devoid of Power Forwards, but the way I see it Josh Hart is effectively the backup for Randle and I’m generally fine with that.
If anything, I would rather have Quickley playing more minutes than Grimes and have Randle go down a bit to around 30-31 with Hart taking those minutes and Quickley getting the rest.
Good to see everyone’s shooting rounding into form (I’m positive Brunson will get there.) Problem is, we are still at a shooting deficit even if we get to the same percentages as last year. Our weird, board-gobbling offense still seems to work when everyone contributes, but I can’t help but think we will still have problems in the playoffs if we get a star shooter in the door.
Quickley is maybe our best young player, and he needs more minutes. Donte also needs minutes. Grimes has struggled, but at least he still brings stellar defense.
Yet, if RJ is really making the leap, idk if SF is the place to look anymore. But who else can you replace in the starting lineup? Not Brunson obviously. Randle has flaws, but he will be hard to move, and he helps when he’s in a good headspace. And I’m not even sure how you replace Mitch at this point.
I guess that leaves our deepest position, SG, but really it will depend on who’s available. The most likely candidate is Spida, who also happens to be killing it this year. And if Cleveland starts sucking, they might consider a trade by next free agency.
Also, a few league notes:
– maybe Masai was correct to not include Scottie Barnes in any trades?
– Cam Thomas if 5th in points scored thus far!
– the Sixers still look like a serious ECF competitor along with Boston and Milwaukee, and still have the ability to add to their core before the playoffs.
– Utah looks worse after adding poor John Collins. They are in a weird spot and probably should tank but does that mean moving Markatin?
– R.I.P. our Detroit and Washington firsts lol.
Re: Trade
I don’t think the outgoing players are pre determined on who will be moved out in a consolidation of assets next step trade as those depend on the position/level of the player coming in and whom this specific GM finds most desirable. Market will dictate the terms of the transaction.
Trying to figure out the value of a trade where all the elements are unkown is a little silly but silly is what we do, I guess.
Knicks receive: player X
Knicks send: 3X players + X number of Draft Picks
Who would pull the trigger and just get it over with?
there is such a thing as having too much of a player type… this is no different than the 5 power forward problem we had under mills…. and what do you know.. all those 5 power forwards were actually useful and heavy contributors on other teams when they left us… marcus morris and bobby portis on actual contenders…. taj doing taj things…. but together? that was a disaster! and they don’t even have overlapping skills..
so i dunno where this whole idea that there’s no such thing as having too many good players…. we just saw this like 3 years ago…. and it did not work out well at all….
im sure after every win we will break out the confetti and declare that all is well.. but it’s going to be tough for anyone to really distinguish themselves over the course of the season with this minutes distribution…
grimes donte and iq are all under 25mpg…. that’s very tough for all of them who are in crucial times in their careers to try and blossom…. but the problem is that anyone getting more than 25 will result in someone else geting buried… donte is barely playing and he got a 5 year deal….
it’s one thing to anticipate a deal… it’s totally another to be forced into one and this minutes distribution is forcing us into a deal because we’re going to have incinerate more picks if they’re all going to be playing behind guys who have long term deals….
pretty sure what we’re seeing from Maxey is a leap but unclear he’s really this good… but if he’s anywhere close to a 4bpm player Embiid isn’t going anywhere….
and the fact that kelly oubre was got for pennies compared to donte is a good indication of how much of an overpay donte was….. and there will be another oubre and donte available next offseason too….
While I understand your argument djphan, the comparison to the season of Power Forwards is not one I agree with. The issue with having a glut at PF is that all those guys could play the 4 or the 5 and that’s it, there was no versatility outside of Morris being able to play 3 sometimes, so you could at max play 3 of them together, ideally 2.
This situation is different because these guys can all play together if you go small and there’s very few matchups were the lack of size will be decisively punished. You can play Barrett or Hart at the 4 with IQ Brunson Grimes and DDV getting the other minutes, specially with how well Mitch and Hartenstein have been playing at defense and at the boards.
I do agree this is unlikely to be the team who ends the season, but I don’t think it’s at all as bad as having a glut of big men.
I mean sure if you know Kelly Oubre is about to significantly outperform his career averages you can find a guy like that for cheap but I’m not so sure how easy that is to do
Brown, Porzingis, Brunson, Young, Murray, Turner, Banchero, Mobley, Garland, Siakam, Barnes, Bridges, DeRozan, LaVine, Holiday, Anonouby, Herro, Cunningham, Kkouzma, Poole.”, Allen, Wagner, Ball, and Cam Thomas all get injured the week before the game?
Bruno’s point about the added versatility of SGs compared to PFs is well-taken, and I would add another important distinction: that team sucked. It made no sense to sign a bunch of veteran PFs, or veterans of any other position really, because it was obviously not aligned with our place on the win curve.
The exception is if the plan was to flip them for assets, which it wasn’t, but when we pivoted to that in the case of Morris it worked out extremely well. We couldn’t execute that with Portis and Taj because, well, they just weren’t very good at the time. No one wanted them. It’s never really a good idea to give expensive pillow contracts to backend rotation fodder.
All this to say I don’t think it’s inherently bad to have something of a glut of good players at a particular position, provided a team is actually at a place on the win curve where it makes sense to pay to add wins, there’s some versatility, and the players are in fact good players.
This time around we meet those prerequisites. That was not the case with the PF spending spree of yesteryear.
If RJ keeps up anything close to this level of play, then the Knicks are legit contenders even without making any moves.
If we are legit contenders, then we should be okay sacrificing Grimes’s development time for wins. We’re trying to compete regardless of our actual chances.
You can have too many PFs, you can’t have too many 3&D wings. They fit in every lineup with every other type of player as long as you have enough usage coming from elsewhere. Also, there’s 2 wing positions and only 1 PF spot. Having 4 wings is completely reasonable.
And really Morris played the 3 while Taj played C anyway.
As I mentioned last night, I wouldn’t read too much into the fast starts of Philly (and Dallas)
Here’s who the Sixers have beaten so far this season – Raptors twice, Blazers, Wizards and the Suns (without Booker or Beal)
Let’s see how they do against real competition going forward, I still see them as a 42-44 win team.
The Sixers have not played a tough schedule but they have fucked those teams up. That’s what good teams should do. Some combination of maxey improving and better coaching and solid depth makes them better than a 500ish team. Embiid is still awesome and they don’t really play anyone bad.
we’re not the only ones to have deployed it…. the suns famously had 3 pg’s… isaiah thomas… dragic and bledsoe…. which was more organic than the issue that we have…. but nevertheless after a magical season… it was not sustainable and a deal had to be made….
i mean we’ll see how that holds up… but i’m not particularly concerned about the size issue… many teams go small on their bench unit… that’s generally fine… we won’t miss obi that much….. the size thing to worry about is probably on the wing… we really only have RJ to matchup against opposing wings with size… everyone else is under 6ft 5…
the issue is that we have a lot of guys who do the same things but also share a very crucial weakness… they’re not very consistent from 3…. and so going small can and do work but that’s generally with guys that are very dependable from deep… hart is not.. IQ is streaky… so is donte especially outside the confines of the golden state offense…. grimes is probably our best bet… but he’s prone to streakiness too as he’s mostly been invisible outside of one game so far…
when teams go small… they hurt you from deep and in transition… we don’t run and we’re not very good from deep…. so we’ll see how that shakes out.. but that’s the part you gotta worry about…. not the defense….
it happens every year…. how do you think golden state found donte and the nuggets with bruce brown?
if you have a good team and you have a good eye for role players (and if you have draft picks).. you can do this every year… which is why nobody else really gives their 9th man long term money like we’re so eager to do….
We definitely don’t have enough shooting, and when one of our high usage guys goes down we have to play some unworkable lineups. We could really use a high volume 3PT shooter with some length, that would be the ideal guy to create in NBA2K if we could.
Every team wants 3&D players because they fit on every team alongside every type of player.
Few teams want non-shooting ballhogs who average 1.0 ast per game.
There’s demand for Donte. There isn’t demand for Oubre.
Philly still got Oubre at a great price, but Oubre is worse than Donte and we really don’t need a wing who can’t shoot or pass.
Fell asleep during the game, so i’m trying to catch the vibes of the game reading your comments. 😉 Last play i remember is the lob from Randle to Mitch… i guess after seeing that my mind thought i could rest a little because the game would be ours. 😀
1) Oubre has had these stretches before, we’ll see if it holds up.
2) It’s true that most years, teams sign guys at the minimum/close to it that turn out to be more or less as good as DDV…but then they just lose those guys the next year in free agency if they don’t have an exception or cap space available to re-sign them. It’s no advantage to a team in our position (i.e. not contending this year) to save money on a DDV-like player in 2023-2024 if it means we risk losing him the very next season.
Our transition frequency is on the lower side (15.9%, 24/30), but our PPP in transition is on the higher side (55%, 6/30). Will be interesting to see if we run more if that keeps up. Anecdotally, it looks like more of a priority in the last few games.
Re: 3PT shooting, I have to think we’re going to improve. We’re generating the 8th most open 3PA in the league per nba.com/stats, but hitting 26.5% of them.
I agree that our roster configuration is something of a waste if we can’t weaponize transition and shooting, so hopefully both come around a bit.
Except it’s nothing like that situation. Those 5 PF’s could really only play PF and maybe Center.
IQ is the back up PG. But he can also play SG. DDV and Grimes can play the 2 and the 3. Hart plays the 2,3, or 4. RJ plays the 3, 2 and 4.
They are similar in size and they overlap in some skill areas but they are not exactly the same and they can each play multiple positions.
To me, DDV was a playoff move, not a regular season move. Our 3 point shooting was bad in the playoffs. IQ was bad/hurt, etc. Miami showed you can’t have too many SG/Wing types that can defend and shoot the 3. We’re in a series and Grimes or IQ isn’t shooting 3 well or is getting roasted on D by a specific player, we got DDV as another option.
I do think we need a traditional PF on the roster for size and break in emergency is Randle is playing poorly, but I don’t really see the issue with having all these dudes on the roster. They all can play.
donte is one year removed from getting the same contract oubre did….
they do different things and i prefer donte but oubre is very capable of putting in very useful 9th man minutes…. at a fraction of the cost and commitment… that there’s this giant canyon between these two players is not very compelling…. that’s what role players are.. they are mostly swimming in the +/-1bpm world…
we’re shopping top shelf for a spot in the rotation that’s currently playing under 20mpg…. there will be plenty of guys like donte in every offseason… guaranteed… if you have draft picks you probably wouldn’t even need to bother signing anyone!
Luka is currently shooting 41% from three on 14 attempts per 100.
It’s still pretty early basically and I am not going to get too worked about anything I have seen, even Julius.
I am pretty happy with our defense and 3-4 seems fine given the teams we have played.
IQ seems to me to be the best player on the team. I am not sure how far down the list Mitch is either. He has been spectacular. Brunson will come right but IQ does a lot of what he does on offense and is a great defender to boot.
Excited for Wemby’s arrival, should be a ton of fun.
We have time, Washington until 2026, this one looks shaky, yeah, and Detroit until 2027. I think it’s for the best if they tank this season, because there’s a chance they pick a good player, instead of doing what the Knicks used to do and get picks between 8 and 10 year after year.
or they use draft picks….
point being…. it’s the 9th spot in the rotation! is having to sign someone every year for that spot or using a draft pick the end of the world? no! it’s actually pretty much designed that way… almost every team’s rotation past the 8th man is constantly in flux.. even the 6-8 spots are dicey every year.. why? because there’s much better deployment of resources than spending half your cap space on your bench… almost nobody does it this way….
why is it such a premium to lock down a guy who hardly plays long term? donte’s not irreplaceable… he’s not some unicorn…. you can find donte for much cheaper every single offseason… including this one….
throughout all these discussions… nobody has answered that… and that’s pretty telling….
Really excited to see Mitch v Wemby. No bad outcome. If Mitch wins, changes the non-Knicks view of Mitch and thank god we have him. If Wemby wins, we have an additional bunch of non-Knicks NBA games as must-watch.
What do you mean? It’s MLE money. All teams waste MLE money on players like DDV, if you can’t find a better one obviously. Oubre had a bad season and had no MLE offers, so he had to take the minimum on a good team. This happens every year.
our PPP is going to be high if we hardly run because we only run when there’s great opportunities that arise… the point in pushing the pace is to create opportunities…
and here are the pace ranks for Thibs teams:
Knicks
25
29
23
Wolves
24
25
Bulls
23
29
27
28
23
whatever you hope might happen…. is not happening….
who spends MLE money on a player and then gives that guy under 20mpg?
Isn’t the mid level almost specifically for rotation role players?
LOL, I love how people always say shit like this with no evidence. Yes, players who are good are so easy to find every season! Any late round first pick always turns into that player! Every veteran is a good player and all of them should just be happy with the vet minimum!
Maybe they should?
One very good player plays 36mpg at most. Our bench is playing 86mpg.
A small generated by each of 4 different players for 2.5x as many minutes as 1 starter can generate more of an advantage over the course of a game than that 1 good starter.
And really all 4 of our bench pieces could start and/or have started for other teams. If it makes it easier to swallow, just look at Grimes as our 9th man with a $2M salary.
Love this from Katz….
Mentioned in this story: Mitchell Robinson’s offensive rebound rate is currently better than the offensive rebound rate of SEVEN TEAMS. He’s out rebounding entire five-man units. Outrageous start to his season.
who spends MLE money on a player and then gives that guy under 20mpg?
Like OJ’s glove, never ask a question if you do not know what the answer is.
This is a great point. I can easily imagine us on the board with the 15th pick, and there’s a solid prospect available, but he’s a 2 guard and we already have 6 of them so we punt again.
Perhaps the better question is what teams pay as little for their 2 stars as we do for Brunson & Randle?
Some guys get paid nearly as much as those 2 combined. We should take advantage of that by spending more elsewhere.
for guys who you don’t plan on playing that much? no… but please feel free to do your own research and enlighten me…
donte himself is evidence… so is bruce brown.. so are the lakers… the warriors… the nuggets…. just about every contender has an amazing year from a role player that comes out nowhere usually signed off the scrap heap….
this was all mentioned ad nauseam before… it’s accepted as fact…. all you need to do is look around….
the question is the question… and the answer is apparently too uncomfortable for anyone to even attempt to answer…..
not hard guys….
It was definitely part of Leon’s calculation re: DDV that Brunson and likely Randle will soon be much more expensive. Brunson is unambiguously woefully underpaid, but it’s easy to forget that Randle is also underpaid relative to comparable (regular season) performers. We should be spending money on good players while we still can.
The surplus at SG is fine. It’s not ideal but it’s not the core problem with the team.
The core problem, as it ever was, is that we lack a superstar, and there’s only so far you can go without one of those. Everything else is at the margins.
This is kind of fascinating, from The Athletic’s power rankings, on LeBron:
I don’t see how this work rate and usage rate are sustainable for a man in his late 30s whose NBA career is old enough to drink. But here we are. The Lakers simply can’t survive when he’s off the floor, so they need him to either maximize every minute he’s on the floor, play him more or both. Small sample size, but we’re looking at plus-9.6 net rating with him on the court and minus-36.6 net rating with him on the bench. That’s insane.
Wow, that Lebron stat is nuts.
Some are a little over minutes or a little under the money, but here’s a partial list:
Maxi Kleber
Georges Niang
Nicolas Batum
Gary Payton II
Robert Covington, most likely
Marcus Morris
Larry Nance, Jr
PJ Tucker
Jeff Green
Doug McDermott
Victor Oladipo
Rui Hachimura
Robert Williams
Matisse Thybulle
Malik Monk
Collin Sexton
Kelly Olynyk
Brandon Clarke
That’s a little over half the teams I looked at. Don’t really feel like doing more, but I think that proves the point.
Wow, that Lebron stat is nuts.
Perhaps makes more sense if you factor in whether Cam is on/off when Lebron is on/off…
Asking the right questions is more important then answering the wrong questions.
Unless you can prove paying more for your bench can’t work, why should we assume it can’t?
If no other team has tried it, which is what you’re claiming, then there probably isn’t much evidence it doesn’t work. If you have some evidence, show it instead of appealing to the authority of NBA GMs.
And how much we pay Randle and Brunson affects how much we have to spend elsewhere.
There’s no reason to dismiss the relevance of either question I’m asking because the relevance of your question depends on the answer to those questions.
+1
uh that’s kind of overstating things a bit…
maxi kleber has been a key rotation piece in dallas his entire career… he hasn’t been played less than 25mpg since 2018…. in 4 games this year he’s avg 18.8mpg…
georges niang makes 8mm per… and almost half as much as donte….
nicolas batum was a 2 year commitment… and averages 27, 25 and 22 mpg his last year 3 years…
gp2 makes 8mm per…
marcus morris played almost 30 mpg.. how did this guy make it on your list…
i’m not bothering with the rest… seriously this is just dishonest….
Fact checked the first guy on EB’s list and found out he makes less than the MLE and has averages
more than 20 minutes.
Of course this is the same guy who says he’s the only KB poster who wanted Jalen Johnson at 19.
Best fiction writer on the blog.
so you think it’s the wrong question because you think you have never seen any team give huge amounts of money and long commitments to soso players and never had it not work out?
really? that’s the logic we’re going with? i mean we went through the mini version of this with alec burks.. kemba walker… nerlens noel and evan fournier… this just so happens to be the super deluxe version of that strategy….
this is not some novel concept… as a knick fan you go through this with every regime overpaying for mediocre players… it never works out…
Yeah, no.
Unbearable turnovers aside, the team looks smarter this year. RJ and Randle in particular seem to get the game a bit better. For instance I loved Randle’s euro step yesterday, I don’t remember him doing it last year.
Now if they can find consistent 10-12 shots a game for Grimes, maybe their spacing becomes better as well.
Picked another at random…
Malik Monk signed for 2 years, $18MM and averaged 22.3 mpg in the first year of that deal
Picked another at random…
Collin Sexton signed a 4 year rookie extension worth $70mm and averaged 22.3 mpg in the first year of that deal.
on a flight right now and the asshole in front of me keeps trying to get comfortable and pushing the seat back in the expectation that it is going to go back further on the one millionth attempt…ready to throw some blows….
but these comments are keeping me laughing so i think i will make it to Orlando without embarrassing myself by getting in the ol’ seat altercation…
i haven’t watched all the games but what I saw of grimes so far is not promising…he can play defense but it doesn’t appear that he has much confidence on the offensive end…just not a threat when he is out there…some bad vibes between him and randle…after randle passed him the ball and he missed a jumper last night on one possession…the very next time down …he was in the same spot and wide open…randle saw him but never even considered giving him another shot…and then of course…committed one of his 6 turnovers by trying some fancy dribble shit…
I mean, you asked and I answered. It’s not my fault there’s a long list.
If you wanted tighter parameters, you could’ve specified them. But there’s no reason to setup an arbitrary 20mpg cutoff or whatever arbitrary cutoff you’re setting for money.
Marcus Morris has played 7 total minutes this year. His teams have played 7 games.
22mpg isn’t that far over your arbitrary 20mpg. This year he’s played under 18mpg. He’s been under 20mpg for both teams.
18.8mpg is under 20mpg, no?
$8.8M is not half as much as $10.9M, so umm…. what are you referring to? It’s $2M per year. But more importantly, they’re paying that much for Niang. Niang sucks.
He makes $8.7M. Again, are you actually asking for players that make exactly $10.9M? I can’t read your mind and guess what you consider MLE money.
Then there’s the rest of the list and the rest of the NBA that I didn’t check.
“If RJ keeps up anything close to this level of play, then the Knicks are legit contenders even without making any moves.”
AND Julius comes all the way back.
AND Brunson finds his mojo.
AND the signs of an IQ breakout are not illusory.
AND Mitch keeps up his defensive brilliance.
AND JHart and Donte keep playing like big dawgs and making shots.
THEN we’re a Tier 2 team. Which is where I would have put Miami last year. So we would have a puncher’s chance, which in the NBA ain’t much, but it’s also not nothing. Especially when you don’t have a top 5 player in his peak.
He’s playing 3 more mpg and getting paid $5M more per year. Yeah, I’m not looking for people who meet your exact arbitrary specifications. That seems like a lot more money for a marginal increase in minutes.
Marcus also got traded
i said this…
then you go all….
all of these have historically played more and are playing way more than donte…. with way less money and commitment…. you’re proving my point…
donte has got paid the MOST on that list…. and is playing near the BOTTOM….
the TOTAL VALUE of the contract is half as much as donte’s… seriously most of your list has that problem…. nobody got the full max mle…. niang got 24 million…. donte got 46…. do the math….
so let’s get this straight… you don’t like answering other people’s questions directly and instead make up your own questions… and when you don’t agree with others ‘specifications’ you make up your own…
why bother interacting with anyone when all you want is to evangelize … seriously just interact with someone else… you either ignore or straight up lie about what i say anyway…. super low character stuff…
As for Grimes, I think he’s still a year away from breaking out (and safe [and healthy!] travels, pepper!). He’s got some skills, but they feel jumbled. He needs to piece them together to create and become a coherent offensive threat. I expect him to improve over the year, but not a big jump (especially what with having a ceiling of four shots a game). Again, with another off-season to work at it, I think at least a recognizable jump is possible.
He’s still perfectly cromulent in his current role, especially with the D. Just not great.
Does this explain why the Clippers didn’t play him at all over 6 games or why Philly only played him 7min in a blowout?
This DDV argument is stupid because he was 100% signed due to being Jalen’s BOY from back in the day.
So, factoring in his production, he was clearly going to get financial security from us.
Still, he has to earn his minutes, as do the other guys (except for RJ and Julius for some reason). And as the one new guy, I think averaging 18 min per game is actually pretty generous.
Kelly Olynyk signed a $12M per year contract for DET in 2021 and played under 20mpg.
Matisse Thybulle is getting paid $10.5M and is playing 17.5mpg, or is $400k too much of a difference?
Happy?
Sexton got that deal on the CAVALIERS….. he’s now on the JAZZ….
thybulle played 27mpg when he got traded to portland… and got matched on a RFA deal…. yes they have every expectation to be playing him way more than he is now….
ok… you got me on kelly olynk! those pistons must be on to something….
srsly.. .most of this stuff would take 5 secs more than the work you’re already putting in.. if you would just go a little past the point that confirms whatever your preconceived notions are… or maybe you do see it and conveniently leave it out.. i dunno….
either way… you never had much credibility to begin with but this is truly terrible work….
If RJ keeps playing like this and Julius returns to his quasi-all star form and Brunson remembers he can make shots etc we’d be pretty interesting in the playoffs. But yes we still would lack a real superstar. So I don’t know what that is, really. A somewhat improved version of the 14/15 hawks?
Questioning assumptions is interacting. This is how discussions usually work.
I’ll stop arguing that the Knicks are good when they stop being good. They were 7th in SRS last year and are 6th so far this year.
So when people are saying the Knicks are bad or screwing up, then I’ll probably disagree because the evidence shows that those people are wrong.
Per Basketball Reference:
Yes he technically signed the deal with Cleveland, but Utah intended to pay him that much.
“either way… you never had much credibility to begin with but this is truly terrible work….”
djphan, you got hammered, and rightfully so, for getting personal and insulting a few threads back. There is no — zero — reason to turn this site into every other fucked up corner of the internet. So cut it the fuck out. If you want to argue that you’re right and someone else is wrong, go for it (although it is boring as all get out, and yeah my fault for even skimming it). But leave the insults out.
I did clarify that some of the minutes were a little over or some of the money is a little less. There’s no great difference between $2M per year or 2-3mpg, why should we disqualify those players.
yes you’re right .. i’m wrong i apologize… but he was also coming off a knee injury that kept him out of the year and he missed games during the season which is why he played so few minutes…
again the intention was that the vast majority of these guys would be playing a lot more than donte…. and for 99% of these guys it’s true….
again… donte has made the most out of all those guys…. and is playing the least.. BY DESIGN…. all except kelly olynk…. and no i do not hope the knicks replicate any of the pistons strategy nor do i want donte to turn out like kelly olynk….
If everything goes right and nothing goes wrong we should be pretty good
once I realized that the NBA is just one of many subsidiaries of DraftKings, it totally freed me from the oppressive notion that my ideas about basketball were worth promoting, defending, or even talking about
djphan:
join me
addendum: yes, even now, I feel a sense of benign uselessness in talking about my feelings about basketball; the meta too is corrupt all the way down
literally nothing about this matters
except the online gambling revenue
Not sure why his mpg last year is relevant to the contract he signed this offseason, before playing sub 20mpg. After all, Donte played 26mpg last season.
I’m not sure why his status as a RFA should matter either, they’re paying him what they’re paying him.
This team is pretty good right now
i’m sorry what you quoted is not even remotely personal… his work is verifiably terrible in this instance and in many others…. i’m not the only one to point it out…. it’s not the first time he’s done it… he’s blatantly misquoted me at other times… yes his credibility is called into question and there’s every right to call it out….
and i’m also not going to have someone tell me to go get an education and not say anything.. like that just came out of nowhere and pawned off as some random not referring to anybody comment…. ok there…
so if you want to play the good cop… dont just be looking at me…. i don’t have any issue with people who have a different opinion than me…. i never have… i do have a big huge problem with people with low integrity and flinging random insults…. i don’t tolerate that…
he was traded to portland .. he played almost 30mpg in portland.. portland matched the contract… he’s still on portland….
donte was on golden state last year…. now he’s on the knicks…
Mike, if we can have a MUTE button, i’d very much appreciate it.
That still fits the parameters of playing under 20mpg and making substantially the same money that Donte is.
It’s really not… at least not any worse than any other poster.
And unlike a lot of posters, I go through and post stats that support my arguments, most posters here don’t. You can take issue with the implication of those stats, but disagreeing with my inferences doesn’t make it verifiably terrible.
It’s you and Hubert and Hubert has been wrong every time he tries to call it out. I prefaced my list by saying that some of those players are a little over 20mpg or a little under the MLE. The goal should be to find similar situations not situations that are dollar for dollar and minute for minute the same.
You disagree with me on what parameters we should use, fine. I misspoke when you said you weren’t being clear with your parameters, however, I don’t think that those parameters fully capture the attitude of the league.
The reason I can’t get on board with DDV skepticism is because I see no theory of the case for opportunity cost, and plenty of plausible scenarios in which his contract benefits us.
What’s the alleged opportunity cost? An interesting wrinkle of Quickley not being extended is it looks like we should have access to the MLE again next offseason if we want it, and were there any better realistic targets this past offseason? Grant Williams was not signing up to play 12 MPG behind Julius Randle, mind you.
Does anyone really think DDV will be some kind of albatross? Dude makes eight percent of the salary cap this year, and that’s only going to decrease (albeit slightly).
I’ll believe a 26 year-old reasonably good shooter and unambiguously plus defender making eight percent of the salary cap will impede us in some way when I see it. You’ll know where to find me if I’m wrong–I don’t do disappearing acts–but if for whatever reason we need to get rid of this contract, it ain’t gonna be an issue.
Also, why exactly should we care if Donte plays slightly fewer minutes than similarly paid players? We are probably the single deepest team in the league in terms of clear-cut NBA rotation players (with our major flaw being a relative dearth of higher level talent).
It’s a bit bizarre to say we shouldn’t have signed DDV because we couldn’t give him minutes reciprocal with his talent if DDV himself had no such objection…
Might as well say the Knicks won 50 games last year as long as you preface it by saying they actually won less.
You’re ridiculous, dude. Your claim the other day that you were the only poster who wanted Jalen Johnson put you over the top.
It is becoming abundantly clear that you are probably 15 years old.
I said that I wanted him, I did not say I was the only one who wanted him (italics added for emphasis):
This is about par for the course for Hubert’s accusations. You’re about 0-6 on these accusations now.
With regard to the Quickley, DDV, Grimes issue.
It’s simple to me. The idea is to play the best players.
IMO, Quickley is a critical two way versatile piece on this team. His minutes have been reduced = BAD.
IMO Quickley is a better player than DDV. When he’s rolling, this is a different team because he can shoot, make plays, defend, and create better than most of our other players. His minutes are being reduced in part because of the glut at guard that was created by adding DDV.
I could make a case for why reducing Grimes’s minutes is also not such a great idea, but for me, it mostly about giving Quickley a real shot to show what he can do as a starter or 35 minute player. That’s what I am complaining about. I like DDV even though I would have preferred a backup PF.
pepper, do deep breathing excersises in their ear…every once in a while just hit them with a loud and totally random grunt…
fuck with them somehow – you’ll feel better 😌
cuss to yourself – loudly…
I’m actually with you and disagree with djphan. I was only pointing out the intellectual dishonesty.
It’s similar to the 19th pick logic, i.e. just bc the pick might not have played in his rookie year doesn’t mean you punt the pick.
We got DDV now bc eventually we won’t have this roster glut and we won’t have the MLE to use.
and so what happens when out of the whole list.. donte makes the most money with the most years… and playing near the bottom of that list in terms of playtime? shouldn’t that clue you in that you could probably fill that role with any one of those guys in the list for less years and less dollar commitment?
a few mil here and a year or two there… you think that’s splitting hairs but you’re making the case for me…. you can get guys at the end of the rotation for much cheaper than what we got donte… that’s not just this year too… these kinds of guys are available every year…. freely and openly available.. and sometimes you can get them EVEN CHEAPER….
so explain it.. but yea it helps immensely when you directly address the other person’s point first doesn’t it? you now have a much better understanding of what i mean… you discovered that donte is much more expensive than his equivalent in the rotation and that there are in fact a ton of cheaper options out there…. and you also .. hopefully… discovered that no… you cannot just simply dismiss the notion every single team maxes out the MLE in years and dollars for a 9th guy….
simply stating someone’s point is irrelevant and not even explaining why is super antisocial behavior…. seriously don’t even quote what i have… go soapbox on your own without using my comments as a platform or pretend that you’re in a discussion… if you need to just pretend i’m some super famous person and maybe you can treat me like a human….
Best line of the week so far. I was rolling.
I don’t want to have this conversation again, but that’s EXACTLY what happened.
I read ptmilo’s post first, saw the subject he was addressing, started quickly skimming the thread to see what the general conversation was about, saw some more references to the draft picks again, mumbled “not again” to myself, responded to the ptmilo post (addressed to him) with a joke that came off badly, and you assumed I was talking about you. I literally never even read your post or posts?, not even after our exchange. That’s why I kept saying to not take it personal.
So why not use it get a backup PF that we don’t have and could potentially need against some matchups or if Randle gets hurt other than DDV is friends with Brunson?
djphan, I’ve been engaging with you and your response devolved into personal attacks.
If DDV level players are freely and widely available, why are so many teams struggling to find them?
The Lakers were playing Lonny Walker and Troy Brown, Jr in the playoffs last year.
Cleveland would’ve loved to have a 3&D player like DDV as a starter against us in the playoffs last year, instead they cycled through LeVert, Osman, and Okoro because none of them worked. They signed Max Strus to be a starter for them, and he’s a worse player than Donte.
Philly played Georges Niang 1500 minutes last year, he had a -1.4BPM. He gets paid less than Donte because he’s worse than Donte.
They also played Shake Milton 1500 minutes. He put up a -2BPM.
There just can’t be that many Donte level players if teams trying to compete can’t find them. Maybe there’s a few that can be had for the minimum each year, but that doesn’t mean they’re widely available or easy to find.
The Celtics vs. the 76ers should be fun tomorrow night. KP is going to have his hands full. Maybe they should use Horford a little more against Embiid.
I should add one last thing about this DDV issue. It should be obvious by now I’m a huge Quickley fan. Maybe I’m wrong on this, but if the Knicks decide to consolidate our guards in a deal, I think DDV and J-Hart will have an advantage for staying simply because they are friends with Brunson. I think that makes it somewhat more likely Quickley and/or Grimes will be part of the deal. I like all four, but I’d rather roll with Quickley. That’s part of what’s annoying me over and above the minutes issue.
geo…i was on the aisle…i strategically waited for the lady sitting next to me to get up and as I got up…i hip checked the seat hard and startled the offender out of their sleep…when they looked back…they saw the lady next to me standing up and thought it was her…as I was heading back to the galley for some apple juice already….how sweet it is…
Who doesn’t love reading a 10,000 word heated discussion between people who don’t read each others posts? It’s a great spectator sport, up there with bass fishing, curling, and the biathlon.
Curling fucks, bro.
LOL
it got me through a 5 hour plane ride…so i was good with the banter..
Of course curling fucks. David St. Hubbins even wrote a theme song for it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gT5dgJNhrzg
epic share, Alan.
Who is this backup PF that is simultaneously deserving of the MLE but also okay playing 12 minutes per game? The reason we picked DDV over this person is because DDV exists.
I’ll stipulate to this without looking. You haven’t answered the important question–why should we care if DDV himself doesn’t? This could easily be framed as more of a testament to our depth than anything else, in fact I think that’s all it really is.
That’s not to say our roster is perfectly, or even well, constructed. It’s decidedly not. But what exactly is the case that it would be better constructed without DDV?
Apropos of nothing, a friend of mine went to Bob Dylan’s Rough and Rowdy Ways tour in Boston over the weekend and said that he didn’t suck like you might expect an 82 year old man to do. I am now encouraged and think I’m going to catch him when he comes to New York later in the month. I’m curious if anyone else has caught him on this tour, or has plans to, or has ever seen him live? Knowing this forum there is probably someone who saw him play at the Bitter End in 1961.
ha, that was pretty awesome…
viajar seguro 🌶…
I just got up this morning to this argument about was it unreasonable to give DDV so much money. The core of the argument seems to be talking about what other teams do. But other teams usually don’t have the money to pay their bench as much as we do because their stars make much more the Randle and Brunson do. Almost every team spends all the money they can before the season but lots have their hands tied because of their financial situation. For example, Golden State might have liked to keep DDV but couldn’t. Even though I’m not the biggest DDV fan out there, I’m not going to roast the Knicks for spending more on their bench than other teams, I’m happy they had money available to spend on their bench. I would have preferred they get a similarly capable forward instead of DDV at guard, but I don’t think that player was out there. The best at that position was probably Niang. Would any of you prefer him to DDV?
As a naturalized Angelino, just being in a room with ice for that long is painful. The brooms and dirt particles do fuck though, no doubt.
Not to take anything from the scintillating discussion about how signing a good player to a decent long-term deal kills the team’s prospects, anyone excited for the Philly-Boston game tomorrow night? I’m interested to see how Embiid and his latest set of mercs fare against KP’s Celts. I think it’s a great early season benchmark game for both teams. Not shocked that ESPN is deferring to Wemby, but it seems like that game is made for national TV.
hi hubie, i saw elvis costello, he was 68, and then also steve miller who was 78, both performed very well…
steve miller was really cool, he talked a bunch about music history, it was super interesting and entertaining…
my ear isn’t so great that i can tell if an older performer’s voice has “gone”…it would have to be very obvious for me to notice…
hopefully you have enough of your favorite songs memorized so you can sing along loudly throughout the show 😊
Edit: shoot, just remembered I recently saw george thorogood (?), man, he’s like a 100…the ticket was inexpensive, and I know the songs well…yeah, he’s got to be at least 82…
Yeah but when other teams have stars on good contracts they tend to use the surplus value to squeeze in a third star. That’s the smart way to play this.
I saw BB King when he was in his mid/late 70s-he couldn’t really stand up and played most of the show sitting down and it was still great.
I saw Axl Rose when he was 55 and it was awful. Saw Phil Collins and Eric Clapton at very advanced ages… thought Clapton was meh… Phil had to sit down but he was great.
Dylan at 82 is apparently doing pretty great. This is a tour of his latest album, though (Rough and Rowdy Ways, which is quite good). He’s not playing the hits or anything.
what if i were to say that every boomer who seems to revel in the fact that we incinerate picks because they either… had too much lead exposure in the 80s… or haven’t learned about basic concepts like expected value… and that I and i alone can teach you guys about these things….
i dunno you tell me if that seems a little… or very.. douchey….
i have many times ! money and years matter for future flexibility…. this is not simply just ‘dolan dollars’…. the false assumption here is that a guy like donte and hart are going to be just as good and maintain their whole value throughout the life of the contract…
guess what.. good players are good until they’re not…. since we’re in the business of answering each others questions… do you think every good player who signs these long term MLE deals make it to the end of it fulfilling their whole value 100% of the time? or is it just donte? what makes donte special?
that is a grave grave mistake to be making which is why giving out long term deals for basically bench players can be very debilitating to a teams progress…. these guys are very volatile year to year… we went through it ourselves with the first iteration… when they start sucking it’s very very hard to get ‘equal’ value back… just look at fournier…. look at the lotto pick we chose to forego….
you can justify one overpay… but… i mean with IQ that’s probably going to be THREE guys that we’re paying big money on our BENCH…
and yea we can handwave that away right now but these mistakes are piling up and look we are one bad randle year away from having this house of cards collapsing… you must see that at this point right?
which teams? the lakers? the lakers who went to the conf finals last year with the help of guys they found off the scrap heap like hachimura… and dennis schroder who they signed for 5mm and was starting for them in the playoffs? like the nuggets who found bruce brown and jeff green? the miami heat who literally have half a roster of these guys? or golden state who literally signed donte for nothing last year amongst other guys? didn’t jordan’s chicago bulls have a constantly rotating list of pgs and centers?
yea a lot of teams struggle to find guys like donte…. but donte isn’t donte every year… the teams that tend to find them are good teams that make their role players look good… lebron.. jokic and steph tend to do that… role players don’t drive anything which is why it’s stupid to be investing so many years and money into them based off mostly a hot shooting year…. you shave a percentage point or two on their 3s and they all of a sudden suck…
donte is not special… if he was he wouldn’t have been freely available as he was the year before…. that does not mean that he’s not good… it just means investing four years into him can be a very risky proposition and we’re going to have a few guys like that on top of it…
George Thorogood is “only” 73. It’s just that he’s looked 73 since he was in his 30s (much like Keith Richards looked—his actual age has finally caught up with his looks).
I stood behind Thorogood at the Corner Deli on Main Street across from my fraternity house on a Friday night circa 1985. He was from Newark, Delaware, where the University of Delaware (where I went) is. He used to do unannounced impromptu concerts in dorms on random Friday nights whenever he felt like it. Thorogood also looks like my college roommate, which was not good for my college roommate. Good thing George plays a really mean guitar.
dj… take five, buddy. You can’t go all four quarters like this, especially without a backup.
I prefer Donte. The metrics didn’t like Niang, he had a not so good -1.4 BPM alongside a pretty terrible -2.2 EPM last year.
Despite being taller and a PF, he only managed to grab 4.4 rebs/36 to Donte’s 6.2.
At 6’7″ Niang gives us some needed size but is a bad defender. So his size doesn’t translate to anything of much use on the court.
He did hit 40% of his 3s on high usage, but that’s about all he does. So I’d rather have Donte who can shoot and also defend, pass, and grabs more rebounds.
Dj’s like Jalen Brunson in game 5. He can play all 48. And if he sits EB/Deuce will come in and post a minus 11 in 90 seconds.
The Lakers and Warriors aren’t choosing to sign scrap heap guys because it’s the smartest play, they are doing it because they have mega max guys on their roster and they can’t do anything else. Look at all the trouble the Lakers have had in the Lebron era at finding 3 guys who don’t fucking suck who can play with Lebron & AD. You can easily sign some scrap heap guys, but they very often don’t work. You have to cycle through them. The Dubs have been running through dudes like Dante and GPII who have given them good minutes but they’re also trotting out bums like Pat Baldwin, totally washed Andre Iguodala etc in an effort to find a good complimentary piece. When they found Jordan Poole, a guy who they thought was a good young piece they gave him 27 million dollars a year. I’m sure they’d love to have DDV at 11 per instead but they fucked up.
Rui had a -2.4 BPM and -2.8 EPM last season, and they had to give up picks for him.
He’s now signed to $50M over 3yrs. He’s averaged 14.7mpg this year.
Jeff Green had a -3.6 EPM and a -3.4 BPM in the regular season last year.
Both those guys are a big step down from Donte.
So yes, teams can find some players like Brown and Schroeder. But if they could pull DDV level players out of their hat they wouldn’t give significant minutes to a bunch of guys who are significantly worse than him.
reference the whole DDV roster dialogue stuff…yeah – everybody has got an opinion, i know…here’s mine via john witherspoon (Boomerang): You Got to Coordinate…
same thing with roster construction —> synergy…locker room, plane rides, on the court and bench…
they’re not just pieces, they’re people…
Deuce is +8.3 per 100 possessions while on the court over his career and has a +7.0 on/off.
i saw dylan on the rowdy ways tour in Oakland at the Fox Theater…great venue…it was like a year ago or year and a half ago…he only plays the album and then a couple of other songs (you can probably get the set list off of someone’s website)…I was pretty wasted so not an unbiased opinion…but i enjoyed it (fuck …its Dylan)…it was only my second time seeing him..i think the other was when he toured with tom petty and played at the garden (actually the felt forum) in the 80’s or 90’s…
Finally, we’re moving on from someone calling someone else “douchey” while insisting they’re not being insulting, and instead we’re defending Deuce-y.
That’s what I want to hear…
I haven’t seen Bob play since waaaayyyyy back when he was a young man in his mid-70s. He played on a bill with Knopfler, but they didn’t share the stage, even for the Infidels stuff they recorded together. I’d seen Bob a bunch over the years, it was the first show that exhibited a noticeable decline, so I haven’t been back because, like with the Knicks, I prefer my entertainment to be competent, entertaining, and with a high-probability of surviving to the end of the show.
That said, Bob basically broke the aging code for performers. Most singers lose the shine off their voice due to age, miles, cigarettes, and whiskey. But Bob was born with the voice of a chronic smoking 82 year old, so his floor has always been set pretty high. Also, he used to fuck up the lyrics of his songs even in the studio, when they were taped to the mic stand in front of him, and he still used those takes, so his periodic bouts of dementia are also barely noticeable. Finally, he was a proud, card-carrying “fuck you audience” kind of performer for most of his life, but in his older age I’ve seen him gain some humility and appreciation, not only for the audience itself but for his own good fortune of still having one at all (while most of the people he influenced are either dead, retired, or have consigned themselves to obscurity in protest of Joe Rogan).
Genuine full-bodied laugh. Killing it today, EB.
great punchline.
Asked if he’s ever faced a big man with Wembanyama’s ball-handling skills, Robinson added, “I’m not really worried about the tallness, bro. Just go out there and play hard. I look forward to guarding anybody, that’s what this league is about. You’ve got to guard. Good players, bad players, it is what it is.”
If I thought you were serious I’d think it was douchey, but if I thought you were just frustrated with a never ending discussion on picks you strongly disagreed with and were making a joke about the upside of being a degenerate gambler, I’d probably continue the conversation without attacking you and making it personal.