[news.google.com] — Wednesday, September 13, 2023 3:15:19 AM
Spike Lee: “Full Belief” in Knicks Playoff Run in 2024 Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Wednesday, September 13, 2023 3:01:00 AM
Fresh off his maiden ACC win, Steph Curry tees off with ‘Niiice Shot’ golf series recreating legendary moments from golf icons Sportskeeda
[news.google.com] — Wednesday, September 13, 2023 2:50:21 AM
Bill Simmons thinks Knicks will land Giannis Antetokounmpo, Joel Embiid or Donovan Mitchell within a year Hoops Hype
[news.google.com] — Wednesday, September 13, 2023 12:38:55 AM
Herko: NFL Week 1 (over)reactions // The Observer Observer Online
[news.google.com] — Wednesday, September 13, 2023 12:00:00 AM
Lakers News: Why Former All-Star Accuses LeBron James Of … Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:33:00 PM
Knicks: Bill Simmons makes epic superstar prediction for New York’s … ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 8:54:00 PM
Heat: Wild Knicks take from Tyson Chandler will have Miami fans cracking up ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 6:57:32 PM
Knicks Trade For Magic’s Jalen Suggs In Bold Proposal NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 6:31:10 PM
New York Knicks Legend Carmelo Anthony Defends Team USA’s … Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 6:12:36 PM
Kings Release Two Players After Signing Former Warriors Champion Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 5:32:55 PM
Where Do New York Knicks Players Fall In New Top 100 NBA List? Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 5:16:09 PM
Mystics 90, Liberty 88: It’s time The Strickland
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 3:51:00 PM
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Tristan Thompson returns to Cavs on reported 1-year deal NBA.com
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 12:29:58 PM
It’s too early to panic about Knicks-Immanuel Quickley extension talks Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 12:12:03 PM
Cameron Payne released by Spurs, could be on Knicks radar Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 12:11:41 PM
PR News | Rees Jumps From Knicks to Timberwolves – Tue., Sep … O’Dwyer’s PR News
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 10:54:10 AM
Analyst Guarantees Knicks Land One of Three Big Names, Including Giannis Antetokounmpo Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 10:20:08 AM
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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 10:12:54 AM
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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:21:52 AM
Knicks all-time draft bust starting 5 FanSided
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 9:21:52 AM
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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, September 12, 2023 8:00:50 AM
NBA Rumors: Knicks trade target could add star power to Olympics … Daily Knicks
72 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.09.13)”
I know we’re not supposed to talk basketball here, but a small nugget from The Athletic’s discussion of the Atlantic conference, that mostly focused on the Celtics and Sixers (like us, just not a lot of Knicks stuff to chatter about), regarding possible breakouts this coming season:
‘Weiss: This year is gonna be Grime time at MSG. Immanuel Quickley made the national leap last year, but Quentin Grimes has the potential to make that same ascension as he gets better attacking the rim and making decisions off the catch. He’s a good spot-up shooter who can drive open space to throw it down and finish solidly in transition; plus, he gets buckets on a nightly basis from cutting backdoor and crashing the offensive glass. He knows how to work the floor and find a role in the offense, but there’s more creativity to unlock in his game and he should take another step forward this year.’
I saw that, too, Raven. Grimes has shown hints of greater playmaking/ballhandling creativity in the past, but mostly in summer league. In regular games, it’s primarily manifested as him taking advantage of guys guarding against corner threes by driving along the baseline to the hoop. If there’s more there, that’s wonderful. Mostly, though, I’d like to see a bit more consistency with the three-point shot. Eye test-wise, it seemed like he shot better on nights when he got the ball more. Which is a hard thing to make happen in a lineup that also features Brunson, Randle, and RJ.
I am usually on the optimistic side about young Knicks taking the next step in developing, but have almost the opposite view to Jared Weiss. Grimes is a player who already knows how to get the best out of his skill set; don’t see a lot of untapped potential. His improvement will be a more normal curve of getting better each year with maturity and entering his athletic prime.
I expect Grimes to be able to do more, but I’m not sure how much more he’s actually going to do. Brunson, Randle, and RJ are going to be options #1, #2 and #3 and get their 20 PPG (give or take).
How many shots does that leave for Grimes as 4th option?
If he does take a step forward, it can be argued he should take more shots and RJ fewer, but I don’t see that happening. Teams are going to leave RJ open from outside and RJ is going to take those shots. RJ is also going to attack the basket (which is fine).
I think Grimes may have a few more big “nights” if the matchups are right and that’s what the defense is giving us, but I don’t see how he’s going take a lot of shots away from guys that often create for themselves when they get the ball.
I like Grimes a lot. He’s got a hard ceiling because of some limitations…a very weak left hand is one of them…but he should be a solid 2-way NBA starter for years to come. That ceiling is probably somewhere just below All-Star. If he can maintain his shooting percentaged at a usage closer to 20%, that’s a really valuable player.
It is highly likely that if Leon trades for a disgruntled star, one of him or DDV will have to be included. They are probably the most duplicative players on the team. Personally I prefer to keep Grimes, but there is that pesky ‘nova connection. However, other teams might value DDV more on his reasonable contract. But who knows how much Grimes will command on an extension if he breaks out? Or if he doesn’t? I guess we’ll know more once the rotation settles in.
More generally, it’s starting to feel like this next stretch of Knicks basketball….from now until the trade deadline…is a showcase for that scenario. How can the value of our players…including everyone but Brunson, and probably JHart…be pumped up so that less has to be given up in a trade?
JHart can’t be traded this season, Z-Man. It’s the nature of his contract and when he signed it, which makes him ineligible to be dealt until a few weeks after the trade deadline. Katz has written about this a few times.
Maybe Grimes should play more with the second unit, so he can get more shots? I like him a lot as a starter, I wouldn’t mind seeing him play 32 to 36 minutes a night.
I looked at those numbers a couple months ago and a lot of his most efficient games came when he had higher usage. The Knicks were missing high usage players for a lot of those games so it’s likely he was shooting more out of necessity rather than shooting more because he had the hot hand.
“JHart can’t be traded this season, Z-Man. It’s the nature of his contract and when he signed it, which makes him ineligible to be dealt until a few weeks after the trade deadline. Katz has written about this a few times.”
Thanks Alan. My point is that even after the season when such a trade is more likely, I doubt that JHart would be included. I think the Knicks see him as an indispensable long-term piece, second only to Brunson. And in a way, I think his contract, being a slight overpay, might help in that regard. In other words, I doubt that Leon wouldn’t cave if Philly insisted that JHart be included in the trade, but Philly might not value him at that salary as much as, say, Grimes or DDV, or even Randle or RJ. But beyond that, my point about this being a showcase year for both disgruntled stars and the FOs of their current teams still stands.
If I went with a snapshot picture I’d agree with BernieErnie that he is what he is and incremental growth. But when I look at the totality of his work to date, going back to his messed-up college start, I’m less sure. He seems to have the ability to repeatedly morph himself into something better that makes him hard to bet against.
TBH, that first summer league I felt Grimes could stick around as a sharp-shooting bench player with energy who might be good for 10-15 minutes a game. I had my money on Deuce turning into Marcus Smart 2.0. So I’ll play wait and see on this one.
Grimes has a lot of things to resolve… and there’s a lot more risk to his profile than normal and it’s mostly because of the playtime… there’s a very good chance.. probably 60/40 that he loses his starting role to donte.. and probably a non-zero chance that he gets fournier’ed if he and the team starts off cold…
as a baseline… he’s going to lose minutes in a significant way as demonstrated by basically everyone on this board…. usually that can result in big efficiency gains but he’s already low usage and already highly dependent on others setting up shots for him… if he breaks out it’s going to come from hot shooting from 3….
much like RJ… sustainable improvement is going to come from his ft% and a key indicator…. to his credit he did improve from his rookie and college years but he goes there so little we’re still in the dark on what his true shooting abilities are… if he’s able to improve there he has a shot to breakout … at least on a minute by minute basis… but given his history he’s more likely range bound as a sub 80% ft shooter with a 34-38% 3pter… that will likely have him waffling between useable and unplayable like many in his category….
huge year for him.. but i would bet the under and temper expectations…
I find myself thinking about Deuce a lot. If he continues to develop and that 3-pt shot starts falling with consistency, I wonder if that makes Leon that much more willing to include IQ in a trade…especially with his impending extension and the risk that it will be an overpay…
It just seems like Deuce is more suited to being a backup PG than IQ, and that we have a glut at SG so IQ isn’t going to realize his full potential there especially now that DDV is in the mix, so why not trade him at peak value?
Now if IQ starts off on a massive tear and becomes a clear 6MoY winner, then maybe it’s best to keep him in the fold. It would be a nice problem to have.
he didn’t really morph himself tho… he shot terribly at kansas with what probably was a shooting slump and he managed to shoot better elsewhere.. he transferred because he was going to get buried….
he is what he is…. which is a spot up shooter that needs a lot of room to operate….. which is a lot like a lot of other players in this league…
I may be wrong about Quickley, but I’m going to repeat this.
I think Quickley has the potential to be the best two-way player on the team. He may already be. He impacts the game on both sides. No one else on the team does. When he’s playing well, this team is much different than when he’s having a rough period from 3. IMO, it would be insanity to trade him.
In year 2 they took away his ability to draw contact and get to the FT line which he used effectively in year 1. It took him awhile to adjust to the new rules, but he did.
Last year he got off to a slow start (I can’t remember if there was a reason), but was really good after that.
Admittedly he had a disappointing playoffs, but it was mostly disappointing 3 point shooting. That has been his weakness. He has been a bit streaky from 3. That’s the next step for him. We know he can shoot. He just has to improve his decision making (he takes a handful of bad ones) and get more consistent.
If this was my team, I’d start Brunson, Quickley, Grimes, Randle and Robinson. It’s a bit undersized in spots, but I think that’s the best team and lineup we have. There’s plenty of scoring, better defense, and better spacing than with RJ.
I think RJ would do better off the bench. He’d often be the #1 option to get his shots but would sometimes be facing easier matchups. He may even have more space with IHart at C.
That’s a tough decision for Thibs to make, but IMO it’s the right one.
The reason nobody responds to these posts is because nobody really disagrees that IQ is a very good player. You’re not being the contrarian you think you’re being. IQ is good and water is wet.
Quickley might be the least controversial player in the history of Knickerblogger.
I’ve said a few times I think there’s some room for Grimes to grow. The problem is it’ll be a little hard to “feature” him from a usage perspective on this roster.
Relatedly, we’re going to have to decide whether we want to continue to let RJ shoot more than the merits dictate in the name of “development.” We do need another usage soaker on this team outside of Randle and Brunson, so RJ’s role is certainly more complicated than a quick look at his mostly dreadful numbers would seem. Thing is, if he can’t even approach league average efficiency we’re almost certainly better off redistributing a lot of his shots.
Also on Sam Vecenie’s pod today he continues to heap praise on us, likes our over (44.5) more than any other in the league, and thinks we could win 50+.
I think strat’s point is about whether to include him in a trade or keep him, and there is also controversy over what he is worth re: next contract, whether he should be extended now vs. letting him go RFA. There is additional controversy over how much he should play and what his ideal role is, given the overlap with DDV, Grimes, and even JHart and that he played like shit in the playoffs. Not to mention that IQ was possibly the most controversial pick ever, except maybe for a certain dearly departed Frenchman.
“possibly the most controversial pick ever”
Um, 3-on-3?
“dearly departed Frenchman”
You mean Frederic Weis?
As with front offices, the Knicks offer so many putrid choices over the years…
To add, IQ was either 2nd or 3rd best player in most advanced metrics. Weirdly, EPM had Mitch & Randle beating him instead of Brunson.
Raven, lol Kevin Knox may be the least controversial player ever discussed on KB…it was unanimous that he was a godawful blunder of a pick and nobody left that camp except for the first 5 minutes of his first summer league game.
I would not have used “dearly departed” to describe Frederic Weis, as he never actually arrived!
I thought you meant Killian Hayes
sign me up for quik in the starting lineup…
I think Quick is going to have to sign a team-friendly contract because, even though he has nice advanced metrics, he hasn’t proven himself as a starter at either the 1 or the 2.
4/80 might be a little cheap, but I’m not sure another team will offer much more than that for a sixth man. In many ways, he’s worth more to us than another team. That’s probably why he hasn’t gone out in a trade yet. The more likely scenario has him going to a 3rd team that wants to solidify its bench. Then, the Knicks would use that draft capital in a star trade.
I am irrationally attached to Quickley and would have no problem with Leon drawing a hardline at including him in any trade. I am aware that might not be the most prudent decision from a cold-hearted rationalist perspective. It would just be really hard for me to be excited about a move in which he was sent out.
It does seem pretty arbitrary, maybe even downright stupid, that RJ is guaranteed a starting spot and 30+ minutes a night while Quickley, who has been the unambiguously better player as long as they’ve overlapped in the NBA, is consigned to the bench by virtue of their respective draft positions.
A Brunson-Quickley-Grimes-Randle-Mitch starting lineup seems versatile on both ends, and coming off the bench would at least be a change of scenery of sorts for RJ.
The counterargument is that our bench units could get pretty ugly in this scenario. Deuce-DDV-RJ-Hart-Big Hart is…iffy. Some staggering could alleviate this though and at the end of the day I think there’s plenty to be said for simply giving the best players the most minutes and adjusting after the fact if that’s not working.
it was unanimous that he was a godawful blunder of a pick and nobody left that camp except for the first 5 minutes of his first summer league game.
still remember the glorious window of knickerblogger knoxanity after his third summer league game:
Serious question: who in this draft would you trade Knox for right now?
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I sure as heck would not be trading Knox for Trae Young at this point.
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I like what I’ve seen from Knox a lot more than the consensus. I think he has long term all star potential and will be a good compliment to Porzinigis as the 2nd option fairly quickly. He has a lot of areas that need improvement, but when you are drafting 18 years olds, that’s expected. When you get a player with this much talent and all star potential at #9, I think you’ve done quite well.
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God Forbid anyone who hated the Knox pick give an inch and actually compliment him or show any inkling of optimism. This is America and in America you never have to be wrong about anything!
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I’m pretty excited about Knox now after being lukewarm with his selection. I see all the things that are suboptimal but it’s hard to quibble about an 18 year old who clearly looks like he can start in the NBA. He deserves a few years to learn how to score efficiently, become a good team defender, etc. I think **** nailed it when he said this looks like the player Porter was projected to be.
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I do know one thing; I’m glad we have Kevin Knox and not Mikal Bridges.
https://sports.yahoo.com/six-takeaways-from-the-2023-fiba-world-cup-133754218.html
As a critic of many Leon Rose draft night trades, getting 34 + 36 for 32 in 2021 was an underrated move.
The moral of the story is we should wait till the 4th SL game to make a conclusion
I guess you don’t remember the multiple threads after he was drafted lol.
I think it’s more about “position” than “draft position.”
IQ is a combo guard who has had to compete with multiple good players as well as the Elfrids and Kembas of the world.
RJ is a SF/wing who has had to compete with…pretty much no one…at least until JHart was acquired.
This regime didn’t draft him. They did extend him, which I think had less to do with draft position than (perhaps misguided) belief in his potential upside.
i don’t think that’s quite true…. and that’s probably overstating the case a bit… and maybe the perception of that is true since someone like grimes have had so much ink spilled about him because one guy uses derogatory terms like hustle bunny…. but the hustle bunny moniker also applies to IQ… but maybe less so since he does impersonate a pg…
he might not be in the same category as grimes but he’s much closer to him as a player then whatever people think he might be or might become…. it would be talked about more but i think grimes has acted as a proxy for that kind of player….
Those aren’t actual quotes are they?
I can see the shape of a great player with Grimes but like others have said he mostly seems just like a good player. Which is fine.
I don’t know, the same lens I apply to guys I don’t like tells me this is what Grimes is.
Grime time would be great. But i don’t know if that’ll be easy to achieve until we make the probable star trade. Until then, i think we might have a minute distribution problem, given that we have a lot of players that may feel entitled to get minutes.
LOL! The blog should work like stories on social networks, that way we could opine whatever craziness we wanted (ok, we already do that) and then the post would be deleted after some time. 😛 😀
Hey Geo, it’s me, Lady Cyber, a stepdaughter, a son and our 2 beloved cats. She’s 24 and the youngster is 17, i’m getting near to having my parenting “job” done. 😉 😀
I honestly don’t think draft position has anything to do with it. Thibs likes RJ bc he’s taller.
I guess Mike K would make more money on Patreon if we could “bribe” him to delete our most embarrassing posts! 😀
Those are definitely real quotes and it’s not that hard to figure some of them out.
^ Belligerent optimism. Would bet my house this is Swifty.
^ Calls attention to the fact that he differs from the consensus… has Porzingis penciled in as a #1 option… say hi to Strat
^ Cautious excitement. This would be me.
Yes, but Presti wanted to move up and he had picks to burn. Leon just answered the phone. And then he bungled the two picks in what was a surprisingly good upper 2nd round. This does not go down as a highlight.
article on espn+ that has the optimal USA roster for the olympics:
starters
Curry
Booker
James
Embiid
Durant
bench
haliburton
edwards
bridges
tatum
davis
adebayo
mobley
last guys cut
butler
green
holiday
leonard
mitchell
that seems like a solid squad to me….
Embiid is Cameroonian. I’m guessing he got US citizenship to be included on the list but I’m wondering if he’d actually care about repping the US.
I might drop Mobley until he starts shooting better or fills out more
Yeah…drop mobley…add lillard…or whomever is the best shooter not on that list
I’m saying more than he’s very good.
I’m saying he is ether the best all around player on the team now or will be very soon. Every time anyone even contemplates moving him a theoretical discussion I freak out. I would trade Brunson before I traded Quickley and that’s not hyperbole. IMO, trading him should be so far off the table it’s in another time zone.
Knox had those early flashes that gave a lot of us some hope Calipari knew what he was talking about.
He has improved on offense and will probably continue to get better. His problem is that he’s bad on defense and sometimes looks lost even now. That makes him unplayable. Maybe it’s a basketball IQ thing, but he has talent. I don’t think Calipari was totally wrong about that.
IMO he’s similar to Reddish. He’s not as talented, but he’s probably not as big a knucklehead.
I agree with strat that Knox and Reddish are similarly flawed.
I vehemently disagree with strat on preferring to keep IQ over Brunson if it ever came to that.
Lol the Rockets are actually trying to trade Porter Jr now and will include draft capital. Still, who’s going to bite that bad apple?
EDIT: Sorry, Alan, that’s via The Athletic
Those Knox quotes remind me of the 2016 election –
“I like the idea of a Washington outsider and savvy businessman as our next president”
“Those Knox quotes remind me of the 2016 election –
“I like the idea of a Washington outsider and savvy businessman as our next president””
But unlike with Kevin Knox, there are millions of voters who still like that idea despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
He’s much younger and Thibs reportedly likes him, plus the front office is not letting one of their assets rot on the bench, there’s no real chance he gets Fournier’d
trying to trade a guy who just got arrested for felony assault & strangulation is fucked up
You are not alone.
Brunson is the better player on offense and he’s also more critical because of our lack of quality PGs and surplus of combo guards.
However, Brunson is a negative defender that will actually get targeted and Quickley is plus defender.
There’s a huge gap on the other side.
If you think Quickley can improve his offense over the next few years (I do), I’d say he’s going to be the better all around player eventually because I can’t see Brunson getting much better on defense.
But we’d still potentially need a replacement PG to do some of the things Brunson can do on offense to even consider that move. I’m mostly stressing how much I like Quickley.
Grimes played all 48 minutes in a win or go home playoff game, his starting spot is not in jeopardy let alone his spot in the rotation.
I was listening to Bill Simmons talk about the Jets and Aaron Rodgers on the way to work today. It’s clear a lot of Jets fans are devastated. Maybe it’s cold if me, but I just don’t see it. Of course it’s hard to lose a good player, but an injury was considered such a possibility the Jets built injury protection into the trade package. And if a team is really good they are usually still good after one injury even if it’s to a key player. Simmons and whoever he was talking with kept going on about all the young talent the Jets have. They still have that. Their biggest weak point is their offensive line, not quarterback. It would be better to improve that than get another quarterback. Then they can roll over opponents in a cloud of running plays and Wilson can certainly handle that. Otherwise their next quarterback won’t do well either since he is not getting protection.
I mean the usual narrative when the big free agent you sign that season plays the same position as that starter… it’s usually not a ringing endorsement… is that not usually the case?
another factor is that I’m fairly doubtful that thibs will thread the needle giving only two guys 30+ mpg and everyone else 20 something… given his penchant to ride the hot hand or whoever he’s vibing with in any given moment.. someone will inevitably lose out on minutes in a major way…. it could be anybody…
doesn’t have to be Grimes… maybe it’s not even likely Grimes… but given the fact that they are doubling up on skillets from their biggest acquisition…. are you really going to say that there’s no way that’s happening? that there’s no way Grimes starts off cold and donte starts off hot and we have a slow start to the season and donte starts getting 30mpg and Grimes starts seeing 18 or less and probably some dnp-cds?
I don’t buy it… there’s really no universe where’s that’s zero or even less than 5%… and hence why folks are probably overrating Grimes…
Interesting… Porter’s 4-year contract is only guaranteed for the first year. Maybe Leon can trade Frenchie for him + some picks and then just send him home (or to jail).
The Porter contract is unusual in that it is only guaranteed a year at a time. If the Rockets pick up the second year then the third year is their option and so on for the fourth year. This was done because Porter has such a history of incidents. The Rockets wanted an out if he did something again and they wanted a contract that gave him an incentive to be a good citizen every year. But he didn’t even make it to the regular season. He’s not a good risk for another team either and I expect it to be hard to trade him. I also don’t know if he can be traded with all the options in place. Sometimes a team has to guarantee an option to trade him, but I don’t know if that applies in this case.
Trading for him with only a one year salary commitment and immediately sending him home seems ok to me.
trade for porter junior…are you smoking licorice and huffing twinkies…
Yeah, alright!
Snortin’ whiskey, drinkin’ cocaine
Been snortin’ whiskey, drinkin’ cocaine
Got this feelin’, gonna drive that girl insane….
Patty Travers
Max Scherzer has broken down again and will likely not pitch again this season. Shocker!
yeah pepper that’s right…got dem cocaine blues 🙂
1st test run with the psilocybin, .8 grams made me a little nauseous, yawned a bunch, and unfortunately did feel my heart rate quicken, wasn’t too crazy about that, but to be expected…that was kind of it though…
back at it tomorrow, see what 2 grams will do…
slow and steady – and better living through chemistry…
Yuh huh.
Psilocybin. Yup. Indeed.
Immanuel Quickley
Donny Most = Ralph Malph
Jordan Addison is a rookie WR on the Minnesota Vikings. D’Andre Swift is playing well (Jalen Hurts vultured a TD), but T.J. Hockenson already scored a TD for the Vikes.
Addison just scored on a long TD.
Yep, he did.
Good morning, gents.
DDB, you’re stuck on Sep 13, please come to the newest thread! 😉 😛
https://knickerblogger.net/2023/09/15/knicks-morning-news-2023-09-15/