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71 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.05.20)”
Playoff. Jimmy.
Looks like the Heat are not that bad, after all. š
I hate Miami, but I also respect them in a way I donāt most of our arch enemies. I would root for Denver in a hypothetical finals, but I wouldnāt be mad if Jimmy got a ring. That dude is incredible.
I have only one problem with Playoff Jimmy… well, outside what they did to us, i mean. And the problem is, why in hell did they lose against the Hawks? Now, they’re going to match our record of being the only franchise to reach the finals as an 8th seed. And i hope the Joker stops them from breaking the record.
Yeah, he’s amazing. I was rooting for the Heat to lose in the play-in, in hope that Jimmy could be set free. But yeah, now we know he’ll end his career in Miami.
I wonder what Lance Stevenson thought of Grant Williams performance
Speaking about records, there’s 6 teams that never reached the NBA Finals – Grizzlies, Hornets, Clippers, Wolves, Pelicans and Nuggets. So if the Nuggets get there, they can get out of this (bad) record.
Mazzula soon to join the firing squad with Williams, Budz and Doc.
I guess the Celtics could still win the series, but assuming they donāt, itās gonna be quite the interesting off season for them. I think the āmultiple bannersā ship has sailed, so sad (-:
The Nuggets are the second oldest of these teams behind the Clippers. What is a bit strange is that they were in the last of the ABA Finals before joining the NBA. They have also been in the playoffs a ton of times.
You think they’d can Mazzulla so soon after Stevens gave him the show of faith new contract?
So fair to say RJ vastly outplayed what Jaylen Brown’s been up to vs the Heat. He played like crap last night. If he doesn’t wake up the series is over. So many low IQ shots, def not playing like 2nd team all NBA. Heat have high iQ, two way players across the full team, maybe herro made them worse
The Knicks sure could have used a player like Quentin Grimes in the Heat series!
Herro is a OK, but heās defensive liability. I donāt think his loss hurt the Heat as much Quickley being out hurt us.
I have a bet on Denver to win the whole thing from the start of the season. So Iām in pretty good shape right now, but Iām actually considering putting a bet on the Lakers from here. The Nuggets are way better at home. It took incredible shooting in game one and a superhero performance from Murray in the 4th quarter of game two for the Nuggets to win at home. I havenāt looked at the odds yet, but I think LA has a pretty good chance to win the next two and then take one in Denver. Iām not as comfortable with that 2-0 lead as most Denver fans might be.
I’ve always thought Jaylen Brown was overrated and have long been uncomfortable with the idea of him being our next target. He’s basically a reasonably efficient chucker and not much else.
Still, Miami’s run is absolutely incredible. It’s still frustrating that we lost to them because it felt doable, but no shame in it at all.
I don’t think there are any grand takeaways for the Knicks specifically, EXCEPT I do think the Heat validate the folks here who’ve been wanting the Knicks to use their fringe roster spots a little more wisely.
UDFAs, second rounders, intriguing waiver wire guys, etc. should all get priority over e.g. Ryan Arcidiacono (who I am aware is no longer with the team, but was for a while).
If you find one Caleb Martin or Max Strus or Gabe Vincent, it’s worth it. Maybe we’re trying our hand at this with DaQuan Jeffries, but with this front office it’s hard to tell if it’s that or if this is just some favor to an agent or something.
ā The Knicks sure could have used a player like Quentin Grimes in the Heat series!ā
Trolling 101
This Jimmy thing is making the rounds on insta:
https://www.instagram.com/reel/Crgk5YnITq2/?igshid=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Not gonna lie, I think Iām joining Donnie on the Heat bandwagon. Any residual hate from the 90s is gone. There is nothing I donāt like about this team.
TNFH I agree with you about Jaylen Brown, but I think he really canāt stand playing with Tatum and would probably thrive if you put him on a different team.
But yes Iād still be uncomfortable blowing our entire treasure trove on him.
I donāt agree with the Jaylen Brown is overrated stuff. Heās widely considered to be a solid all-star, not a top-10 player or anything like that. He has been a #2 on a team that has gone to the finals once and conference finals a bunch of times and is a big reason why.
Maybe heās not a Supermax level player but you could do a lot worse than a 2-way star like Jaylen Brown. Heās way ahead of where Jimmy was at that stage of his career.
Re Jimmy vs. Jaylen I meant in terms of playoff success
Jaylen and Jimmy are apparently very close. They trained together in his first preseason and he got mentored.
Both Tatum and Brown fall a little short of what an elite star and premium sidekick should be in the playoffs and I feel like that has some sort of cascading effect on the role players.
I donāt know, vibes seem bad but maybe the Heat are just better than everyone realized and/or the Celts have had some bad luck.
In case that first gif wasn’t clear enough.
1000% no.
Guys, it took Spoelstra literally 24 minutes to figure us out. The Heat took our best punch in the first half of game 1, adjusted, and then killed us. We had no response.
If Butler hadn’t been hurt we probably would have been swept. And if hadn’t been Spo it would have been someone else.
The sad part of watching this Heat series is it really looks like Butler used us to conserve his energy. Like, we’re the part of the marathon where he didn’t break a sweat, he just coasted.
Also no.
Guys, the success of the Heat is not a feather in our cap.
It didn’t say anything about us when the Hawks went to the conference finals.
It won’t say anything about us if the Heat make the finals.
herro being out isn’t some indication that the heat are somehow better without them…it’s a signal that they’ve enjoyed a series of fortunate events… but to their credit they’ve had various players every game contribute what herro was able to do consistently during the season….. so if you do have guys like caleb martin score 25 pts for you then yes you don’t need herro… the problem is that caleb martin will score like 3 pts most nights (altho not in these playoff it seems)…
herro was their most consistent 3pt shooter all year but if it seems like they don’t need him it’s because everyone else is shooting 40+% anyway….
I mean, what do we do? Make an unfavorable star trade?
Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown are certainly a good enough pairing to win a championship. They might have won last year if Tatumās shoulder didnāt fall off.
If anything, I think it was a grave mistake to promote Mazzulla to permanent head coach. Thereās a weird vibe in their FO, and while Udoka deserved the ban, this team required a seasoned coach, maybe Brad should have taken over.
The Heat have gone from scoring 112 points a game in the regular season to scoring 116 points a game in the post season. Our defense was pretty mediocre in the regular season, but Boston & Milwaukee were top 5 so that is a massive improvement
I feel you, Mike K.
I still root against the Bears every single year because I want everyone who loved Michael Jordan’s Bulls to suffer.
The hard part about maintaining a hatred of the Heat, though, is they don’t actually have fans. Everyone who supported the 90s Heat probably doesn’t even remember that phase of their life.
Who am I supposed to hate? Erik Spoelstra brings his kids to the same playground as my son and he casually chats with the other dads about swings and balance bikes. I kinda love the dude.
Pat Riley? I mean, he was obviously right to want to be in charge. Ironically, if Dolan had bought the Knicks sooner, he would have star fucked Riley and we’d be the Heat.
Most open year since the late 70s. Key going forward is to evaluate how much of a fluke that is, and how much staying power the reasons have.
Has the nature of superstardom changed? Has the leverage and impact a superstar can impart reduced? Etc, etc
The starting point of the project would be the triumph of the catch and shoot 3. Probably brings more volatility to the proceedings.
Between the recent Jordan vs. LeBron conversation and watching Butler, I’ve spent some time mulling over four things: transcendent skills, playing to one’s strengths, ‘rising to the occasion,’ and team roster construction.
There’s obviously transcendent skills. You have them or you don’t. But you also need the ability to rise to the occasion, and carry your team. The difference between Jordan and Dominique, both of whom were transcendent. But of course roster construction played a role in Wilkins never getting over the hump…
Butler, on the other hand, perhaps does not quite have a transcendent skill set, but he’s extremely talented and absolutely rises to the occasion better than most. He also plays to his strengths, almost never doing something he ‘shouldn’t.’ Compare that to our lovely RJ, who has an unreal image of himself that leads to consistently poor play as he constantly tries to do the ‘wrong’ thing.
Also to JHart, who is not hugely talented (that’s from an NBA perspective; he’s clearly somewhat better than you or I…) but who consistently rises to the occasion, and plays to his strengths, which is why I love him. Brunson too.
As for Randle, he’s too damn emotionally fragile, it seems, to be able to consistently rise to the occasion. He’s done a much better job of it this year, and of playing to his strengths, but he still melts down now and again for inexplicable reasons.
Which gets back to roster construction. I love this team, hugely rootable even with all their weird warts. But if RJ doesn’t play to his strengths instead of weaknesses (and doesn’t improve his weaknesses), and if Randle doesn’t get over the hump mentally about consistently rising to the occasion, we’ll always be a second-round flame-out. Which, you know, is better than a lot of teams. But still.
Just wanted to write this down and see if it made any sense. Probably not.
We can upgrade the secondary ballhandler (Randle) if possible.
If not, there were 6 guys in our playoff rotation who compromised the spacing for Brunson: RJ, Mitch, Hart, Obi, iHart, Deuce. We need to upgrade some of these positions.
Leave Josh Hart alone but Mitch needs to be looked at. At the very least, if you don’t replace him with Lopez, you need to explore bringing in a Bobby Portis type to complement him so we can provide an alternate look.
Hubertās hit almost every proper note for six weeksā¦ but I aināt building and designing this team around Julius Randleās lane forays.
Maybe try to imagine Julius Randle’s lane forays without three defenders camped in the lane.
There was this conversation about how it’s always the stars, never the role players. Bullshit. The role players are the ones who either open or close things for the stars.
You saw how Brunson was guarded on that last possession. Kill the opponent’s ability to do that, and it’s a whole different ball game.
The challenge for Leon is that the non-shooting role players on this team bring so much else to the table. You can’t just replace Mitch and Hart with shooters and not lose a ton of what makes us great.
I’d feel for him if this weren’t the extremely-high-degree-of-difficulty path he chose to walk.
Having grown up in South Florida I have come to loathe the front running, low information sports fans there. Iām still āfriendsā with a lot of these chuds on social media, and I canāt tell you how many times Iāve seen the Dolphins start the year 2-0, then everybody breaks out all their Dolphins gear and itās Dolphins Dolphins Dolphins all the time for another couple of weeks until they inevitably lose three straight on their way to another 7-9 campaign, and after week 5 itās like the Dolphins never existed. I cringe at the thought of this upcoming NFL season, because for the first time in 35 years they look like plausible contenders.
Most of the Heat āfansā probably couldnāt name a single player on the roster but would be very quick to share their opinions about how disappointed they are in Dwyane Wade for publicly supporting his trans child.
Theyāre a distinctly annoying brand of sports fan.
Right we’re trying to win not increase the spacing for Jalen Brunson.
Our shooting non-role players weren’t that great at shooting (we were 19th in 3pt %). That’s some brutal shooting from RJ, Deuce & Fournier and some high volume mediocre shooting from Obi & Julius. We can hope RJ and Obi & Deuce can improve, but idk about Julius and there’s also a chance the younger guys don’t get better.
“UDFAs, second rounders, intriguing waiver wire guys, etc. should all get priority over e.g. Ryan Arcidiacono (who I am aware is no longer with the team, but was for a while).
If you find one Caleb Martin or Max Strus or Gabe Vincent, itās worth it. Maybe weāre trying our hand at this with DaQuan Jeffries, but with this front office itās hard to tell if itās that or if this is just some favor to an agent or something.”
This is a special talent that Riley has going all the way back guys like Mason and Starks.
Not to oversimplify or say that it’s easy, but one would think that if our front office were to learn where Riley found the Masons, Starks, Martins, Struses, Vincents, and Robinsons of the world, they might be able to find some hidden gems themselves. It’s not that hard to get a hold of the history of where these guys were playing—that information is readily available to NBA front offices and scouts—hell, we on Knickerblogger are an intelligent enough group that we could probably get that information pretty easily* ourselves* just by scouring the ‘net a li’l bit. The “secret sauce” is in being able to pick the *right* hidden gems out of those leagues/gyms/countries once our front office sends the scouts out to watch those games.
At least the Knicks’ front office has shown that they’re good at late first rounders and second rounders in terms of finding talent.
Just like Miami has enough shooters so that one or two of them are always hot, the Knicks have enough young guys so that one or two of them are bound to get better. Itās what being young means.
I don’t think it’s talent. I think Riley has the ability to see something in a person’s personality or character or whatever. From coach down, they all work their asses off for him. He even plucked Spo out nowhere.
Hartenstein isn’t terrible at spacing the floor for a center. He’s got his floater and can play the high post. Mitch’s range ends under the basket.
Hart definitely hurt us with his inability to shoot. He didn’t step up to the moment when the Heat started ignoring him and that was a huge problem. Good teams will exploit his inability to shoot every time.
Grimes isn’t that great a player, but he won’t get played off the floor. You can’t ignore him at the 3pt line and you can’t abuse him on the defensive end.
Schroder, DLo, Vanderbilt, and even Aaron Gordon are pretty darn good regular season guys. Some, if not all, are better regular season guys than Grimes but are actively harming their team in the playoffs. Grimes might not win you the series but his skillset is one that shouldn’t lose you a series either. That’s why I like Grimes, not because he’s going to be an all-star.
I would think that swapping Vincent, Strus and Martin with IQ, Grimes, and Hart would be a great test of some things being postulated here. My guess is that it wouldnāt have made nearly as much difference as swapping Butler and Bam for Randle and Mitch.
In other words, the notion that the role players open things up for the stars and not the other way around seems pretty dubious to me, to say the least.
I’ve been thinking about my previous comments, and I think Riley is a master motivator and that permeates the entire organization. I think that is what “Heat culture” is really all about. I think the Knicks had it until Van Gundy left. I hope Thibs can bring it back to the Knicks and they never lose it.
I like Jaylen Brown. A couple of bad games doesnāt mean much. Heās had some huge playoff games also. I havenāt paid close enough attention to how Miami is defending him, but Iād be thrilled with a two way player like him in NY. It wouldnāt shock me if he had a big game in Miami.
I just looked at Brown’s numbers, both this year and career, neither are nearly as impressive as I had thought would be. TNFH appears to be right.
Right about what?
The front running sports fan has it all figured out. Itās supposed to be work for the players, fun for the fans. Not the other way around.
@Z-man
“Iāve always thought Jaylen Brown was overrated and have long been uncomfortable with the idea of him being our next target. Heās basically a reasonably efficient chucker and not much else.”
The front running sports fan has it all figured out. Itās supposed to be work for the players, fun for the fans. Not the other way around.
and there it is…it’s so simple – optimize joy…
preach…
Who were the last undrafted guys the Knicks found that gave them some valuable minutes, Langston Galloway and Chris Copeland?
I totally disagree with the characterization of Brown as an inefficient chucker. I wouldnāt trade the farm for him or supermax him, but heās a very, very good two-way player. Weād be a much better team with him in the fold.
BBA, donāt forget Ron!
This is indeed our key challenge. An example was the recent Mitch versus Ayton debate. Ayton is the higher paid player because his strength is offense rather than defense. Would he be better for the Knicks than Mitch? Thatās not at all clear. You just have to watch players change their minds about attacking the paint when Mitch is there to know that there are some good things Mitch does that donāt show up in the box score.
I agree itās difficult to improve from here, but that is the case for any playoff team looking to make the final step. I donāt think it is especially hard for the Knicks because of their roster construction.
*reasonably efficient chuckerā¦
Brown is obviously a good player. The question is whether he is a true #2 guy on a title team.
I think he falls a little short of that standard and I donāt know if I would want him on a max, but heād be a large upgrade on RJ.
Nuggets really know how to get clean threes on the fast break.
@KFNINJ:
You posted (in part): “I agree itās difficult to improve from here, but that is the case for any playoff team looking to make the final step. I donāt think it is especially hard for the Knicks because of their roster construction.”
Do you mean that because of the Knicks’ roster construction, making the final step will not be difficult? Or do you mean that it *will* be difficult, but the reason it will be difficult is not because of their roster construction? It can conceivably be read either way.
As a #2 Brown has had enormous success. Heās perfectly fine in that role. The Celts problem is more about their #1 and #3.
He was 66th in the league in BPM this year tied with the great Cole Anthony. If he’s a lockdown defender, they need to put him on Butler in clutch time. I just don’t see a 2nd team all-nba player there.
Austin Reaves is better than Jaylen Brown. Feels that way at the moment.
I definitely donāt think Brown is remotely a top ten player. 60+ seems too high.
I would just let Jokic foul out. No shame in it.
Also, Russell just always seems like garbage when I watch him.
Refs pushing for a laker win
Nuggets have been ripping the net from three. Quite scrappy. I approve.
Russell had a higher BPM than Brown this year also.
Heat-Nuggets final might be the worst TV ratings since Nets-Spurs
This is beautiful….a cherry on top after the celts loss yesterday
See, I think it is especially harder for the Knicks bc of the path Leon chose.
Most NBA teams are fighting over the same types of players. The common path if you donāt have the right type of players is to bide your time til you get them.
Leon chose impatience. Heās shopping in the category of players who can make a difference, but ultimately not enough.
Remember my criticism of him all along has been constant. Iāve used two analogies to express the same thing:
– heās gonna get rim rocked
– he can get us to the mezzanine doing things this way, but thatās as far as it goes.
He needs manna from heaven. He actually got some with Brunson, but he still needs more.
The latter. Itās always difficult no matter what your roster construction. Other teams that want to upgrade have roster problems too. Consider Cleveland as an example.
Neither Miami, nor LA did it that way.
Absolute crickets from the Laker trolls. You love to see it š¤£š¤£š¤£
The “patient” Celtics are currently getting their asses kicked by the rebuilt on the fly Heat.