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[news.google.com] — Sunday, May 14, 2023 7:48:04 AM
“You know I’m not gonna be back” – Evan Fournier talks about his future with the New York Knicks Basketball Network
111 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.05.15)”
Presumably, whoever acquires Fournier is cutting him, right? I wonder what team will sign him then.
I’m against trading for the sake of trading and the same apply to changing the coach (I think Thibs is untouchable).
You trade or change coach to progress and only if you have a multi-step plan with a clear target, be it incremental progress or full-scale revolution.
Would I like to trade Julius away? You bet, but I can’t find a reasonable (and available) trade target that doesn’t imply the necessity of changing our playing style too (on both sides of the court). Every move has a domino effect.
Luckily this is the first Knicks FO in a long time that I trust, so I’m sure they have plans (A and B for sure, maybe even a C), let’s see if they’re able to execute.
That said, staying put and relying only on internal progress can be very risky. Progression is never linear, you can’t project injuries, other teams will not stay idle and the playoffs exposed some of our weaknesses that, if not addressed, could be exploited next year.
Anyway, putting emotions aside (I love our youngsters) to me Jalen Brunson is the only untouchable piece of the roster, everyone else could go at the right price.
Side note: Fournier’s interview saddened me, I hope they can find a taker for him asap (ehi Evian! Euroleague awaits you with open arms).
Okay, so if one potential component of Leon’s master plan is to wait for a disgruntled superstar to ask out, and/or for a playoff team to blow things up, I think we are closer to knowing all. Regardless of how much further Denver gets, they’re going to run back some version of this team, so they’re not in consideration. The Lakers aren’t trading LBJ or AD, and there’s nobody else who moves the needle for us. Heat sure aren’t trading Playoff Jimmy now. And Jaylen Brown making All-NBA, and thus qualifying for a supermax, means he’s likely to stay in Boston, unless he just hates playing in Boston. (Which he strongly implied in some interviews this spring, but that may have been gamesmanship to ensure Boston gives him the biggest possible offer.)
So in terms of teams beyond this final four, here are some people who could be moved:
* Devin Booker is almost certainly Leon’s top target, but that would assume he is unhappy with the new coach, and/or is worried of being stuck playing next to two old and injury-prone guys, plus Ayton. I doubt he’s available this summer, but maybe next? And I don’t want Ayton.
* KAT, Lavine, Beal, and Dame are all hard passes from me, for various reasons, if they become available.
* Kawhi and Paul George are tough calls. If healthy, either would fit this roster like a glove. It’s just an enormous gamble, given what the Clips would demand.
* If Harden goes back to Houston, the Sixers are kind of screwed and might have to think about trading Embiid. To me, his talent is worth an all-in move, but I know others are also worried about his health.
* Giannis, like Booker, would at earliest want out next summer, and we know he holds a grudge against this team for the Thannasis stuff.
* Cleveland won’t try to move anybody but Allen, who’s of no use here
* If Atlanta tries blowing it up, I can’t think of a less Thibs-y player than Trae Young. Randle is better than John Collins, but would Collins be a better fit if we got other stuff from them in a trade?
* Brooklyn’s not trading with us, even though Mikal is the perfect guy for us.
* Kings not trading anyone of significance after that season
* I suppose the Ja thing could get so bad that Memphis puts him on the market, but he’s also a hard pass now. Has too much shit to get together off the court.
Thoughts?
Alan, you summed it up perfectly.
In a fantasy world I’d try to get SGA or Booker and/or be in the running for Jaylen Brown if he becomes a free agent.
Doncic? Shai?
I’ve said it here before, and I’ll say it again now. I don’t want Doncic here. I *want* to want him, but something about him makes me uncomfortable. Plus, what the hell would we have left over after trading for him?
I could get on board with SGA in a heartbeat, but again, what pieces would we even have left? I don’t want to gut our team for anyone, so if we’re going to get someone with star power, I want it to be with our multitude of draft picks. We have plenty of them, and this might be the perfect time to find a way to use them. We can’t stockpile them forever, and this feels like the right moment.
I think the guys that we ought to prioritize keeping are Brunson, Quickley, Hart, Hartenstein, and Grimes. So we’ll need to add some interior defense for sure, if we are shipping Mitch out.
OKC is not trading Shai. They have so many other assets now in terms of young players and picks. They now have the ability to contend while still being able to add more talent.
If Dallas has to blow it up, I cannot fathom the circumstance where Cuban would deign to send Luka here. Even if Luka said, “I only want to be traded to the Knicks, and I will go home to Slovenia until this happens,” I think Cuban would refuse out of spite.
The only untouchable on the team is Brunson. Everyone else is eminently tradable and not close to untouchable.
Under the “everything has a price” principle, even Brunson could go. I mean, if Dallas offered Luka for him straight up, the answer is obvious.
This is still an “essentially purgatorial” situation, the modifier being only that they won a round in a very wide open year and JB looks a bit better than advertised, particularly playoff JB.
Let’s not mischaracterize it. It was fun, but the big picture hasn’t really changed. If the premise is that they got beat in the second round by a “clearly better” 7 seed, which seems to be the prevailing KB assessment — well, that’s purgatory.
“The Leap” from RJ probably takes them out of purgatory. That’s the key. Is it that, or something else?
And, as explained at length, the coach’s philosophies on strategies and player types puts an inherent ceiling on playoff achievement, which is itself a purgatorial feature. Just because this franchise has sucked for 20+ years doesn’t mean he should have a lifetime appointment.
most of those names aren’t going to shake loose unless something dramatically different from the status quo happens…. and it’s unclear if any one of them would even want to be directed here let alone be able to…
the bigger question is going to be what version of randle we get…because if he does regress in any way … and a big without a reliable jumper is exactly the type that doesn’t really age all that well… then this talk of a megatrade for a star will be moot….
that’s why i imagine people are willing to trade him.. and if he had this season last year we probably could’ve gotten haliburton for him…. if something like that comes up again we have to take it but i imagine that’s never going to happen even if it did come up….
anyway… he is also turning 29 next season and by far the oldest of this group and the track record of late blossoming bigs is rather spotty…. i think folks should hope for the best but also prepare for the worst… and assuming we get all-nba randle or even a close approximation of him going forward is not a safe assumption…. it’s all moot anyway since he’s likely not going anywhere…. but you might not get equivalent value trading him out… but you probably won’t get equivalent value running it back either….
There’s no way you should reasonably plan for Randle to be anything but seriously disappointing in the playoffs, and you don’t build and transact around hopes and prayers.
The problem is that most/all of the other teams see this, too, which means you’re reliant on one or two suckers/incompetents to take a leap at his pointzzz and his “all-NBA” status. Probably isn’t going to happen, but the summer should be spent canvassing for said sucker/incompetent. Only takes one.
Give it up, man. You lost that battle.
We’re contenders. Straight up. We could easily win a title next season with this exact same team.
I’m not as down on Randle as most. Watching Spo get interviewed during the playoff series it was clear they took Randle seriously and planned how to limit his effectiveness. Their plan worked to a certain extent and it made Randle look bad. But part of the problem was the other Knicks on the court couldn’t make them pay enough for doubling Randle. Of course it would be great if Randle could make them pay despite all the defensive attention, but he’s still one of the best power forwards in the league and we need someone besides Brunson who forces defensive attention. So I say let’s keep him unless some sort of grandfather offer comes along.
oh so that’s why there was so much energy towards miami being this great team… we had to go there…
what else is happening for us next year in this crystal ball?
What is funny to me is that this is a blog that prides itself on being reasonable and looking at facts, stats, when making assessments.
Yet people love to say Randle is a playoff choker.
Like we all saw his ankle injury, right? We saw him in a boot, right? We all wondered if he would even be available to start the playoffs, right? We all saw that he missed some playoff games too, right?
Yet when someone says Randle wasn’t 100 percent because of his ankle it’s “nah, he’s a playoff choker. No excuses this is the playoffs dawg.”
GTFOOH with that shit.
Randle was hobbled in the playoffs. Full stop.
Healthy Randle and we beat the Heat.
Healthy IQ playing with a bit more poise, we beat the Heat.
The Heat 2 years ago lost in the first round. Did they trade Bam Abedayo after that because “that core can’t win”?
Yet people want to do the same with Randle and RJ and whoever else? When we’ve just had our most successful season in a decade and have a roster full of young players?
People really want to try and convince me that Grimes, IQ, RJ, McBride, Obi, Mitch…even Brunson and Randle…can’t come back and be even better than they were this year? That they can’t work on their specific weaknesses over the summer and be even better.
Run it back and win 55 games next year.
Purgatory my ass. So sick of the goal post moving and shitting on our players mentality.
Does DeJounte Murray like it in Atlanta? If he refuses an extension he becomes a UFA after this year…
Cam Johnson is an RFA, is there a reasonable offer we can make that the Nets won’t match?
Same with PJ Washington and the Hornets….
One team Alan left out is the Warriors.
Let’s not mischaracterize it. It was fun, but the big picture hasn’t really changed.
Could not disagree more. One year ago the off season debate was about doing a complete reset to go into tank mode. This year it is about how to reconstruct the roster to fix the weaknesses exposed by getting beaten in the second round. I can’t think of a better example of a change in the big picture.
There’s pretty significant regression potential next year for this team. Brunson and Randle didn’t just get better. They were worlds better than their career averages.
Hart’s production as a regular season Knick was also insane. The team was 17-7 with him, 30-30 without him. He put up all star analytics as a Knick but was more of a league average type player before.
This was a cool season, but I still wouldn’t bet on the Knicks winning a playoff round next year. It feels a lot like 12/13. The cause of the likely regression is somewhat different, but while the decline in production from players like Kidd, Prigioni and Kenyon Martin was more likely, they were role players. This current team’s regression candidates are their top 2 players + a player who played like their 3rd best player while here.
In terms of hope, I would bet on Grimes before RJ to make a big leap. Grimes makes a lot more sense with the current roster. He’s had way less NBA experience even though he’s the same age as RJ. If you move RJ and/or Randle to open up space and shots for Grimes, he already has the quick release and first step. He just struggles in traffic. I feel like he could just work on abusing closeouts better with a midrange pull up and drawing fouls on late rotating players to add a few more FTAs/game, and he becomes a passable 3rd option scorer.
I think your question answers itself, Z-Man. If it’s reasonable, they’ll match it. 😛
And we can’t make offers above the MLE without the help of the player’s team. We’re above the cap.
We’re going to re-sign him for basketball reasons, but he should get some extra points for being funny! 😀
Technical question for CBA expert:
Can “over the cap” teams make an offer sheet for a RFA?
Edit: thanks Cyber! 🙂
i’ve already had my thoughts on Randle.. but i actually think there’s more to come on Brunson…. as good as Brunson is iso’ing…. he still wasn’t shooting all that many 3s…. and he was actually pretty ok on pullups so there’s room for him to shoot a lot more 3s if that continues…. i’m expecting some pull back on Randle…. which will likely result in more usg going Brunson’s way so he could be in for a rather huge year next year and he’s more than capable of handling the load… i only worry about his health but he should be capable if that permits…
i’m optimistic on RJ altho i’m not going crazy on any projections… more progress on his 2p% will get him most of the way to competency.. his midrange game actually looked pretty good out of everything i saw this playoffs and that will also serve him well.. he needs to get back to his 2nd year where he only had catch and shoot 3s .. his pullups were a drag on his 3pt% and without that he’d be at least respectable…
Grimes is going to be a bit tougher… for more usage he needs to do more than catch and shoot and that’s catch and shoot off of curls where we actaully call plays for him… that last play where he airballed… i can’t remember a play that was ran for him that was anything like that which explains the airball.. but he needs more plays like that if he’s going to diversify his offensive game…. he’s never been good off the dribble so he really needs to turn into klay thompson…. is that gonna happen in a thibs offense? *shrug*…
Seems like we’re asking the wrong questions about Julius.
Is he a good enough player to be the star, or second banana, on a championship team? No. If we had a REAL superstar, like a 7 BPM, top-10-in-NBA player, plus Brunson, would Julius be a good enough third banana on a championship team? Sure, why not? He’s getting paid like a third banana. He’d be fine in that role.
If you could go into commissioner mode on NBA2K and trade RJ Barrett for Luka Doncic, and left everything else the same, that team would be a no brainer title contender.
Getting that superstar, without gutting your team, is the whole ballgame. This is where the hybrid method starts running into a brick wall: we don’t have enough assets to make the superstar trade without gutting the team, and we don’t have quite enough top line talent to win a chip. Making that leap isn’t impossible, but it’s not going to be easy either.
No need to relitigate the status of the team. Most agree that we need significant improvement to be a chp contender. Hard to disagree about moving anyone in exchange for asset(s) that make us significantly better The devil is in the details and Alan did a great job of summarizing what is likely to be out there ( FWIW, I agree with Alan except for Kawhi/PG-just seems so likely that they can stay on the court enough to justify the king’s ransom they would cost). We can hope for unforeseen trades that have a domino effect ( eg. Dubs moving Poole and maybe Kuminga) that Leon can exploit to help us improve. In the absence of that and based on Leon’s track record, I see him improving us at the margins ( a playable 3 & D player ala a Kentavious Caldwell Pope, who was a very nice get for the Nuggets). I’m more confident that IQ and QC make a jump and would not be unhappy about not making an ostensibly big move with the high risk it comes with before knowing what we have.
Edit-JK made a point about risk/unlikelyhood of landing a top dawg better than I.
https://youtu.be/CgIeQnkBdhk
Good point. It sounds like they want to make one last push with Steph, Klay, and Draymond, and probably Wiggins. So the guys they’d be willing to trade are Poole and Kuminga, and it would be for guys who can help them immediately, rather than be part of a post-Steph future. I don’t know that we’re a match with them, either in terms of what they’d want or what they have to offer.
Sometimes I wonder whether E has some kind of intellectual property rights to all variations of the word Purgatory and gets royalties for ever time someone (including himself) uses it in a blog…
I don’t know JK, Bo. While I want no part of him, and would not consider him a superstar, but someone at KAT’s level is what we need. And I assume the asking price would be draft picks/swaps galore with let’s say 2 of RJ, IQ, Mitch, or Grimes. That still leaves a non-gutted roster (although obviously a gutted draft future).
“Brunson and Randle didn’t just get better. They were worlds better than their career averages.”
Brunson was pretty much the player he was in Dallas last year when he played without Doncic.
Randle’s numbers from 2, 3, and the FT line as well as his rebounding and usage were consistent with his career averages. He modified his shot selection, taking more shots at the rim and from 3 and fewer long 2’s. I’m pretty confident that the Julius we saw this past year is the real Julius.
I agree with JK in that the further off the ball he is, the better. But he should be very good again and I doubt he;s going anywhere anyway.
This is exactly why you plan to make your move next year, not this year. You hope one of the young core improves enough to either make Randle a third banana, OR to be enough together with RJ and picks for a superstar trade.
For example RJ and an improved Grimes and 3 picks for a disgruntled top 10 player is an amazing package. Then you have Brunson, IQ, Disgruntled All Star X, Randle and Mitch and you’re a legit contender. Just one example.
Baked in the cake, just as the inherent playoff ceiling is baked in the Thibs cake.
Time for a new cake.
“Getting that superstar, without gutting your team, is the whole ballgame. This is where the hybrid method starts running into a brick wall: we don’t have enough assets to make the superstar trade without gutting the team, and we don’t have quite enough top line talent to win a chip. Making that leap isn’t impossible, but it’s not going to be easy either.”
The full rebuild method also runs into a brick wall more often than not. Las summer, folks here were lauding CLE for rebuilding “the right way” and being light years ahead of us in the rebuilding process. But what is their path to their next trip to the NBA finals? Is it any easier than ours?
Atlanta?
Toronto?
Sacramento?
There’s a whole mosh pit of teams that are one or two players away, regardless of their chosen rebuilding method. Dallas has a tentpole star…but what’s their path to the finals?
I wish that the board could stipulate that it fully understands E’s position on Thibs and Randle, and on where he thinks this team’s ceiling is so long as Thibs is coach, etc.
You’re a pretty accomplished lawyer, E. How about stating an opinion we don’t already know 1000X over?
Mitch in a KAT package means we’re going to have one of the worst defenses in the NBA and that never works.
I think the 2 players we don’t have to spend too much time thinking about are Kawhi and PG 13. The Clips are opening a new arena next year and there’s no way Ballmer will go into rebuild mode before that.
And honestly that might save us from ourselves, because with the injury history of those 2 guys and Kahwhi’s weirdness, we’re probably better off avoiding that potential minefield.
You have no idea WTF you’re talking about. You cannot say what our team’s ceiling is when this is literally the first year this team has gotten to the playoffs.
Did Boston trade Tatum or Brown years ago when they lost in the second round multiple years in a row? Did Miami trade Butler in 2021 when they lost in the first round?
Did Denver trade Jokic after they lost earlier in the playoffs last year, moving backwards from making the conference finals in 2020?
Should Dallas trade Doncic?
The idea that you know what our ceiling is when you were so wrong about this team ALL FUCKING SEASON. Show some humility. You don’t know WTF you are talking about.
Broadly JK is right our problem is we don’t have a superstar.
idk what you can take away from the playoffs other than we need more health and maybe some depth.
Interesting that everyone focused in on JK47’s end paragraph, which I was going to write about until I saw everyone else doing so.
I think it’s important to remember that only one team wins a chip each year, which means 29 teams fail to do so. Which means there’s ‘something wrong’ with every one of those other 29 teams, that needs fixing.
That’s the swimming pool we’re in, but we’re actually in the shallow end with a bunch of contending teams. Which is a pretty good place to be, instead of paddling like mad to keep from drowning out in the deep end.
So I’m with darules that we run it back with some fine-tuning and see what we have, with the expectation of going hunting for bear once we’ve done that.
(Does one hunt for bears in a swimming pool?)
I don’t think Minny wants Mitch at all, they have Gobert and Mitch is quite expensive for a backup. Also people advocating for KAT probably aren’t aware of his contract, because 2023-24 is the last year of his current contract at 36M. After this an extension kicks in at 50M, 54M, 58M and 62M. Any takers on this contract?
why wouldn’t you want someone who’s average 4.7 bpm for his entire career?
there’s injury concerns but if he’s healthy he’s one of the best bigs in the league…. if you’re ready to take the plunge on kawhi… you’d be too into the vibes to not take a serious look at KAT….
minny’s almost certainly not trading him anyway since they’re not going to get fair value after an injury plagued year…. with as many young guys that they have they can absolutely run it back and expect improvement….
It’s annoying that somE pEoplE insist on blaming the coach for literally every single shortcoming, because I think it blunts what could be an interesting discussion of his legitimate flaws. Namely:
1. Lack of experimentation in the regular season that hurts us in the playoffs.
-I’ve said my piece about how we use Obi already, but the point is not that he’d inevitably succeed with an expanded role. It’s that we should find out if he could in, say, January against the Hornets. I’d say the same goes for Fournier–we had opportunities to see if he had anything left and we should’ve taken them. This is the kind of thing Spo and other good coaches do all the time. If you find a single thing that might work in the playoffs, it’s well-worth any tradeoff. That we don’t do it leaves us with fewer adjustments when our backs are against the wall in the playoffs.
2. The minutes.
-The totals aren’t as bad as they used to be, but we still see our top players in games that have been fully decided. No reason for it, and to tie it in with point 1 you could use these opportunities to actually gain real knowledge.
3. The defensive scheme.
-I should caveat this one because while my eye-test was furious with the number of seemingly open 3s we gave up against the Heat…they shot 31%, so hard to say this is what killed us in the playoffs. Still, our defense on the season overall wasn’t good. From my vantage point, there’s some low-hanging fruit to be had by adjusting our priorities and defending the perimeter more stoutly.
All that said, denying that there are counterbalancing strengths is just head-in-the-sand level stuff. I don’t think Replacement Level Coach X figures out a way to get this group to a top 5 offensive rating, and I can’t tell you how unconvincing I find the “moneyball” explanation–since when is it a bad thing to find ways to maximize scarce resources?
I wouldn’t move on from Thibs this offseason, but I would watch next season very closely for examples of his various rigidities working to our detriment.
KAT is bad at defense playing C and average playing PF. He’d certainly be replacing Randle and i don’t think the (low) added value justifies the massive money difference. But hey, opinions vary.
I’m with JK in thinking that there’s no inherent reason Randle can’t be part of a contender. He just can’t be a clear-cut top 2 option, his offensive game isn’t diverse enough. If he wants to be on a contender he’s gotta find his inner Chris Bosh.
I do think the Warriors could be an interesting trade partner. He’d probably have to come off the bench which he’d be none too thrilled with (to be fair, few if any all-NBA players would take that well), but you could see him thriving in a super sixth man role with them.
I wouldn’t trade him straight up for Poole in a million years, but if they included Kuminga I would start listening. I think I’d hold out for Poole + Kuminga + Moody before getting very tempted.
I mean there’s no plan without risks, and here the risk is that none of the young guys improves to become an impact player. I’ll take my chances with Grimes, RJ, and IQ, with an outside chance that Obi if he stays, or Mitch or iHart becomes that player.
Meanwhile you also have to believe that Brunson isn’t regressing, and Randle isn’t declining with age yet. Seems like a good plan to me.
there’s going to be contextual reasons for not wanting KAT… and that reason is mainly thibs… and not what you want might think… thibs basically turned KAT into obi by sticking him in the corner when he was there and so if thibs does that then i can see questioning it and probably not worth it…
but KAT is the best shooting big in the association…. you probably haven’t watched him all that much but he’s absolutely really gifted in lots of ways on that end and light years ahead of Randle… KAT is also a year younger with a vastly longer track record of success.. this isnt a tomato vs tomahto deal here.. KAT is the whole tomato in comparison to Randle…
I think we’d be underselling Randle if we traded for Kuminga, Moody, and Poole. A third-team All-NBA guy–even with his documented playoff issues–is worth more to a capped out team like the Warriors than two meh lotto guys and a guy who has only one above replacement NBA season in Poole. Also, I think you’d just slot Randle at PF and move Wiggins to SF in that scenario.
We’d also run into a roster crunch if we didn’t make other moves.
GP2, Poole, and their 2025 first for Randle and Roby/Jeffries works in the trade machine though…
SGA isn’t happening. We should ban talking about it. Just no reason whatsoever to think it’s a possibility.
Of everyone mentioned so far, Embiid, LaVine, Beal, and KAT strike me as the only guys really worth discussing this offseason. I could see Booker and Doncic shaking loose in the near-ish future, but they’re both at 0% to change teams in 2023.
This of course raises the question of whether we should pass on a suboptimal opportunity this offseason in hopes of keeping our powder dry. There’s no clear answer besides it’s a possibility we have to weigh in any trade for a non-elite player.
Beal is the only guy I’m pretty much all the way out on, the contract is just too insane for too little production. For the other guys (especially Embiid obviously), I think you have to be willing to talk.
I share many of the KAT concerns but he’s an offensive force such that we could really have a stew if we traded Randle and not much else for him. That’s probably not feasible and I have a fairly low walkaway point for him, but we shouldn’t be closed off entirely to the idea. I’d say the same thing re: RJ and LaVine.
if golden state would be so crazy to give up Kuminga we should do everything we can to help them make that mistake…. probably wont happen but i’d include Randle….
Randle and Fournier for Paul George seems like the most likely Randle deal I can see happening. I can see L.A. wanting an all-star who might actually be healthy enough to play 60+ games and for the Knicks a healthy George (gigantic if) would be a great fit with Brunson. I’d probably pass- I think you only deal Randle if you think it’ll put you in immediate contention and given Paul’s propensity for injury and the fact that he hasn’t exactly covered himself in glory in the post-season make that seem unlikely to me. Still, it seems like a deal that could actually get done with maybe a protected pick added by the Knicks- no one else is giving either team a king’s ransom for either guy.
Now that I look at Kuminga’s stats, he is putting up pretty good numbers…
I think the Zach Lavine worries are real but overstated. He’d fix pretty much all of our offensive issues single-handedly, and would fit well offensively next to Brunson as an off-ball combo guard. Defensively it would be a disaster, so other moves would have to be made to offset that (say, OG for RJ plus picks and a defensively minded PF signing like Yuta.)
He’s posted 60 TS% on high usage for three years running and has played 58, 67, and 77 games in those seasons. He wouldn’t be a panacea, but he would go a long way towards fixing our offense, especially in the playoffs when the defense tightens. The only question is cost.
E.G. RJ + Toppin + 1.8m filler + whatever picks are needed works for Zach in the trade machine…
We should pass. All of our main dudes on bigger contracts – Randle, Brunson, RJ, and Mitch – all have 3 years left. After this upcoming season, they will only have 2 years left and Mitch’s contract is descending. So all should be even more attractive trade pieces if we want to do that next summer.
Mitch and definitely RJ have a chance to be much more attractive trade pieces next summer as they could be even better next season and have less time left on their contracts.
Randle COULD regress but I just don’t see it happening now that Brunson is our PG. His regression last season was largely because Kemba was awful and Rose got hurt so we literally had no PG. IQ got better eventually but was awful as PG to start and we had freakin’ Alex Burkes as our PG.
RJ – has a really good shot at being much better next season. If he’s like playoff RJ all season with better 3 point shooting, he will be very attractive with only 2 years left and we may not want to even move him.
Mitch probably stays the same player but his contract decreases.
Staying put allows us to keep the powder dry and see if we can go further next season with continuity and continued growth from the youngsters. If not and we plateau or regress, that is the time to make a shake up.
Swift it just ain’t that simple. Of course we shouldn’t do anything rash and there are times no move is better than any available move.
That’s very different than saying making no moves would be an affirmatively good thing, though. Time is not inherently on your side in the NBA. Guys get older and lose years on their contracts. Opposing teams get more accustomed to you. Regression is always a possibility.
I mean, just as one obvious example right now we have IQ and Grimes on rookie-scale deals. I think everyone would agree they’re attractive trade pieces accordingly. Will the same thing be true when they’re making $18-$20M+ AAV? Impossible to say.
Last season the Celtics were up 2-1 in the finals and even they made fairly significant moves in the offseason. “Running it back” is more of an admission of failure than anything else.
I think we should definitely keep Brunson, Randle and Mitch. Brunson is obvious. Randle is as good as you can get with the contract he has (aside from rookies), trading him would not move the needle that much or would come at an opportunity cost. Mitch is a great defender and a great offensive rebounder, both qualities match well with Brunson and Randle.
RJ is the guy we should be trading. He is very good driving to the basket, even if he is not a great finisher; but whenever he tries to create without some space to drive, he is terrible, absolutely terrible. And worse, he is oblivious about it. I do believe that he will get better at 3pt shooting and finishing and in free throws, but he is still going to be making terrible decisions with the ball in his hands and throwing wild shots, and that will make him a negative player for his career. He has shot well this playoffs, and some team might think he is for a breakout. We should take advantage if that happens, and trade him for all the value we can get. If that happens when trading for another wing, great, but if we just get assets that would still be a win.
Yeah, I get that. I’m all about tweaks. I just think with a team this young and it being our first season with real post season success, we shouldn’t be so quick to make some huge trade. And I’m also defending Randle a bit because I think people are really latching on to this “playoff choker” narrative when he was clearly not 100 percent. He probably wasn’t even 80 percent. He had a REALLY bad ankle injury 2 weeks before the playoffs began. Many people thought he wouldn’t be ready in time. Ideally, if the playoffs weren’t right around the corner, I think he probably would have rested for 3 to 4 weeks.
I just think with our depth and young players, we could “run it back” but playing 10 or 11 deep all season instead of 9 and that would mean less minutes for Brunson and Randle but also for Mitch and we could try to replicate this season but instead go into the post season rested and ready.
It took us 20 games to even find our 9 man rotation and then we only had Hart for the last third of the season. A full season with Hart going 10 or 11 deep and I think not only do we win 3 or 4 more games but also we probably have more blow out wins where we can rest our key guys. If I was Leon I’d have a big talk with Thibs about this. I think he did better this year but we were trying to avoid the play in until the last week of the season and so he leaned on that 9 man rotation kind of hard. Randle obviously was hurt but Brunson, Mitch, IQ and Grimes were all various degrees of hobbled in the playoffs.
I know that all teams deal with injuries and we were actually kind of lucky in that regard. But I think we can use our depth better next season and be better rested and prepared for the playoffs next year.
I’m not against trades per say but I think we got a good squad and I think our weaknesses can be streghtened internally.
I don’t think its farfetched to say that this is RJs peak value.
Perfect fit would be for Bridges. He fits us like a glove and RJ fits in Brooklyn too. Gives them scoring, youth and a superstar high ceiling. MSG shareholders should absorb some salary dump to make that trade too.
And one star he left out is…
[puts on a medieval suit of armor]
Kyrie Irving
Dallas might be desperate (and dumb) enough to max him, and if they are that will take him off the market because no one else will. But if they don’t, it’s either LA or here.
HUBERT NO
(I’m at the hospital for my latest procedure today also.)
While the 4 candidates you mention aren’t without little quirks or idiosyncrasies, in principle I can agree with this, and maybe even hope for it, but I think the reality is different.
Despite the lenght of my issue list with him, to me Thibs is untouchable because he’s a close friend (and former client) of Leon*, he’s fresh from a 47-win season and the Knicks just won a playoffs series after 10 years.
He had a good year, I think it’s undeniable (especially after a 10-13 start). Heck, he did even show some flashes of flexibility!
It would take a disastrous season to get rid of him before his contract expires, and as a Knick fan I’d rather keep him than hope for a calamity.
Me and my liver made peace with this months ago… 🙂
* The same Leon who had carte blanche from Dolan to fire him at the ASG break last year, when the team was in shambles, and kept him.
I’m sorry Alan! Best wishes for a quick recovery…
What Max said. There’s NO reality where Leon looks to replace Thibs this summer. Agree or disagree, it’s not happening. Like an SGA trade, it’s a waste of bandwidth to debate it.
Best wishes, Alan!
I won’t make a case for Kyrie but I am very curious what’s going to happen with him.
I think he is in the perfect place to get a max deal. No sensible NBA owner would ever give him one. But like Eowyn said to the Witch-King of Angmar… “Mark Cuban is no sensible NBA owner.”
If you can trade Randle for KAT and keep enough in the holster for a 3rd star, you should probably do it.
I don’t believe playoff RJ is real. We played 2 teams with small guards who play bad defense. He’s not going to look that good most nights. Even then he couldn’t run the 2nd unit.
Hoping for the best alsep🙏
I really think Giannis is the guy, but this isn’t the time. If you look at that team’s asset sheet and salary cap, you can see the cliff coming up soon.
Yeah, no.
I hope all goes well with the procedure and wish you a speedy recovery, Alan.
There is a better chance that Soelstra is the Knicks next coach than Kyrie Irving being on our roster next year.
Damn, Alan, hope this fixes the issue once and for all. Good luck!
Hang in there Alan! Small consolation I’m sure, but these days I look forward to your Succession recaps almost as much as the episodes themselves. You’ve managed to keep pace with the season’s brilliance, no small feat.
There’s no chance Kyrie is on the team next year and I would only raise that by 0.5% if he was known to be an upstanding citizen and teammate with everything else being the same. He’s an older, worse version of our best player and the Mavs have no choice but to at least mostly give him what he wants.
You and probably all of us too! LOL But unless KYN somehow hypnotizes the man to forget his life values, he’ll be in Milwaukee for a long time.
We were contenders this year, but that says more about the current state of the league than the talent on our roster.
Post-Cam Reddish we were borderline contenders by net rating for any year.
I’d still say we’re not actual contenders without more shot creators on offense and better perimeter defense.
There’s a #7 seed and a #8 seed in the conference finals. And a few “tanking” yes landing just outside that playoffs. I’d say pretty much everybody was a contender this year. I don’t think it will be that way next year, so standing pat I don’t think is really on the table.
An interesting thing to keep an eye on is that Portland is all but certain to want one of the players on Alan’s list above, but they are handcuffed by a protected pick that goes out for a bunch of years that they owe the Bulls. They kind of need to get Chicago to take the Knicks #23 pick in exchange for the protected pick so that they can offer future 1st rounders for a star. That said, there’s a scenario where one can engage in a 3 or 4 team trade, maybe ending up with LaVine in NY, but with deferring some of the premium onto Porland? Not sure how exactly it would work, but Cronin would probably put Randle favorably on their HOT or NOT list at this point, so…
The Grizzlies should go after PG
I believe!
I’m sure when he said whatever you’re referring to he was imagining good times forever, not playing for Mark Jackson on a capped-out team with no picks and a chronically injured Khris Middleton.
I’ll make a fun (i.e. non-monetary) wager that he starts the 2024-25 NBA season on a team other than the Bucks.
…
I’d put those odds at 40% … but it won’t be to the Knicks.
The likely destinations for Giannis are probably Boston, Miami, New York.
Out of surgery and very punchy. I still believe in Frank!
I think the lesson in the Giannis talk is that you should hold onto your assets and build a drop bench of young talent UNTIL somebody like Giannis is on the market.
You don’t sell the farm for KAT or Gobert or Dejounte or Trae or Kyrie or Beal. Better to perpetually be a top 10 team and keep the powder dry. I think continuity of roster is tragically underrated. Keep the team together, look for ways to upgrade at wing, and stay patient.
Who’s the upgrade at wing that won’t empty the piggy bank, though?
Your surgery turned you into stratomatic?
Lol
Unironically, Alec Burks.
Are we talking Frank Ntilikina or Frank the KB poster?
Frank the KB MD who found Al someone to help him…or diiiiiiddd he?
al off on them good good drugs 😮
seriously, good job following through and following up on your healthcare…
job well done sir…keep focusing on your health…
The alternate history where we dump Rose and/or Reddish’s salary instead of Burks’ is annoyingly intriguing. We definitely could’ve used that dude.
hopefully you’re enjoying some yanks – couple of sweet homers in the 1st…
Wishing you well Alan!!!
Best wishes, Alan.
I agree with most of what’s already been said. This team is clearly on the right track, and the only untouchable is Brunson. I think the Knicks have enough ammo to get maybe two of LaVine, OG, and Turner. That’s enough to make them real contenders. Dallas dropping in the lottery and the Knicks using the MLE well could also take them to the next level. As someone used to say, it’s a good time to be a Knicks fan.
I would really hate to see OG end up in Memphis replacing Brooks. He’d be perfect for them.
Derrick Rose to Memphis? They might need a PG pretty soon.
95 percent kidding on the Rose part; 50 percent kidding on the “needing a PG” part.
Feel better, Alan!
Bit of both, maybe? But Frank the KB poster was rudely working at the hospital’s other location today, so I did not get to see him.
https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/271571/NBA-Could-Be-Entering-Unbelievable-Period-Of-Star-Player-Movement-Through-2024-Trade-Deadline
This seems like good news for the Knicks…
“But Frank the KB poster was rudely working at the hospital’s other location today, so I did not get to see him.”
BANNED!!!
Alex Burks would be a great low cost, low risk short term signing for us next season.
While I’d like to see McBride get more run as back up PG, I could see the thinking in brining back Burks and making IQ the full time back up PG to Brunson. You could then have Burks and his 40 percent 3 point shooting slot in as back up SG to Grimes and Hart back up RJ at the three. You then have a lot of wing combos at the 2 and 3 with IQ, Grimes, Hart and RJ.
Burks plays decent defense and has playmaking ability too. He’d address our biggest need and he knows the coach and the coach trusts him.
Brunson/IQ/McBride
Grimes/Burks
RJ/Hart
Randle/Obi
Mitch/Hart/Sims
Legit 10 deep with McBride and Sims able to jump into the rotation as needed when injuries happen.
I’d love that. Get him back for a one year deal with a team option for year two.
Yup. And it’s why we shouldn’t blow our load trading Randle and picks for fucking KAT or Zach Lavine.
If anything we should be looking to dump Fournier and Rose and their expiring contracts plus a surplus of picks for someone legit to add to our rotation. Maybe that doesn’t net you a “star” but it could probably net you someone really fucking good for a team that’s facing a salary cap tax situation or looking to rebuild with picks.
Burks is a nice player but IQ is better than him or Grimes
As it happens, I listened to some of the Zach Lowe podcast mentioned in the link Z-man posted. Besides the suggestion of an active summer for trading, there was also discussion of how Embiid was disappointing in the playoffs compared to the regular season and had much worse stats. It reminded me very much of the comments here and elsewhere about Randle. But no one is suggesting the Sixers should trade Embiid unless they decide to totally rebuild. I really don’t understand why Randle is a different case and lots of people want to trade him.
Rose is already essentially expired, swift. It’s only Fournier.
As for KAT and Levine, I’m thinking about it. Probably no, as they are oft-injured light-defense albatross contracts… But on the other hand, most other options are pie-in-the-sky. Not gonna happen. Giannis will not come here. Brooklyn won’t trade with us. Don’t know why Toronto would either, at least not at a reasonable price. We’d have to be looking west conference, and then we have Dallas (no chance). Our options are limited.
Which is why the marginal improvement from KAT over Randle and Levine over RJ can’t be completely discounted. Tough to figure out how to reach the last level to being a true contender.
Because Embiid is an MVP and a true star, a decent-shooting big man and defensive anchor. He can’t carry a team like Lebron, but pretty dang close. Randle…cannot.
Also Randle has had abomination games and stretches and in fact entire seasons, much of it about effort, making him an unpredictable head case and giving us all PTSD. He can also be a warrior, but it’s a coin flip which one’ll show up.
As for KAT, it feels like subtraction by addition. It’s a definite step up offensively, but when Randle’s on he’s a much better defender and almost KAT’s equal offensively. When Randle entirely stops giving a fuck on D, he’s about KAT’s level.
I sort of feel in this case we should live with the devil we know. If and until there’s a way to get someone who’s not a devil we don’t know, then maybe, sure.
In a TNFH asset-maximization kind of way, the smart move would be to sell high on Randle this off-season and sell medium-low on Barrett as well. Every reading of Randle’s career arc screams that he is going to have a down year next year, and Barrett is best upgraded from now rather than later. The question just becomes what can you get for them, and how much closer to the top does it get Rose & Co to make it worth risking all the good vibrations they’ve established with the players and the fans.
#You and probably all of us too! LOL But unless KYN somehow hypnotizes the man to forget his life values, he’ll be in Milwaukee for a long time.#
(Deep Wizard Voice with parallel cobra stare)
“Forgeeeet Wiscooooonsin…..Go to the Kniiiiiicks….Legacy is theeere…..take Thanasis wiiiith you…..and even Kostas toooooo….”
So all of our players should be MVP quality? It’s not enough that they are just good?
KAT is actually pretty durable. He had health and family issues during COVID and had a strained calf this year. OTOH LaVine has had serious knee problems for years and his contract is inflated due to his slam dunk athleticism.