[news.google.com] — Friday, May 12, 2023 6:50:31 AM
Jimmy Butler’s Current Injury Status For Knicks-Heat Game Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Friday, May 12, 2023 6:40:00 AM
NBA playoff preview and tips: Heat, Knicks, Lakers and Warriors face a crucial game six Yahoo Lifestyle UK
[news.google.com] — Friday, May 12, 2023 5:31:52 AM
Knicks-Heat series: Mitchell Robinson’s free throws, Quentin Grimes’ energy and more The Athletic
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Caesars New York Promo: Bet BIG on Knicks to Advance Past Heat with $1,250 Bonus Daily Knicks
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Philadelphia 76ers make NBA Eastern Conference finals. What’s next? The News Journal
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Miami Heat vs New York Knicks Game 6 Prediction and Odds: 2023 … Pundit Feed
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Playoffs Film Study: Pair of picks set Heat aflame, but Knicks quash the blaze NBA.com
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New York Knicks vs. Miami Heat Prediction, Preview, and Odds – 5 … Winners and Whiners
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 11:24:30 PM
NBA Playoffs: Warriors, Knicks win Game 5 to stay alive in their series The Associated Press
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 10:53:00 PM
New York Knicks at Miami Heat Game 6 odds, picks and predictions USA TODAY Sportsbook Wire
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 9:51:24 PM
Fantasy Basketball Picks: Top DraftKings NBA DFS Targets for May 12 DraftKings Nation
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 7:38:32 PM
Knicks made a franchise-changing free-agent acquisition Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 6:47:31 PM
Is the Knicks young core wearing down Jimmy Butler and the Heat? | No Cap Room Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 6:46:00 PM
Tim Hardaway left his Knicks job so he could root for the Heat New York Post
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 6:42:54 PM
Miami Heat release injury report for Friday’s critical Game 6 vs. New York Knicks Heat Nation
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 5:07:39 PM
Knicks vs. Heat: TV channel, Game 6 prediction, watch NBA playoffs … CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 4:22:29 PM
ESPN’s Stephen A. Smith Expresses Confidence In New York Knicks Ahead Of Game 6 Against Miami Heat Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 3:48:40 PM
NBA Rumors: Knicks Land Wizards’ Kristaps Porzingis This Trade NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 2:55:53 PM
Pod Strickland: Episode 296 The Strickland
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 2:47:04 PM
Mitchell Robinson takes aim at Miami Heat’s strategy late in Game 5 vs. New York Knicks Heat Nation
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 2:11:34 PM
Legendary Voice Harlan Talks Aaron Rodgers, New York Knicks … WTMM 104.5 The Team – ESPN Radio
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:45:02 PM
Emily Ratajkowski Wears a Megan Fox T-Shirt to a Knicks Game Harper’s BAZAAR
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 12:17:33 PM
Knicks: Stephen A. Smith responds to team complaining about him ClutchPoints
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 11:30:22 AM
Tom Thibodeau’s old tricks might have saved the Knicks’ season in Game 5 SB Nation
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 10:23:03 AM
An All-NBA snub investigation as Knicks and Warriors stay alive The Athletic
[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 9:21:49 AM
Ranking Knicks’ Priorities for 2023 NBA Free Agency Bleacher Report
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[news.google.com] — Thursday, May 11, 2023 7:53:00 AM
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NBA playoff daily results: Knicks and Warriors avoid elimination, Anthony Davis head injury cause for concern The Athletic
118 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.05.12)”
Two things can be true:
1. This season has been a wild success, surpassing the expectations of even our most cockeyed optimists like Swifty. Brunson has been incredible, Thibs has been much more flexible, Hart was the perfect addition, and Julius and RJ have both offered evidence that they can be extremely valuable contributors to either this team or to another team that might want to trade for them in the offseason. The vibes are outstanding.
2. I am going to be monumentally bummed if we lose tonight, and especially if we lose because the refs keep letting the Heat play like they’re the Hanson brothers from Slap Shot.
Yeah Alan, I feel the same way, a soul split into two halves, one more rational satisfied with this outstanding season and the other ready to have his liver explode watching the refs rob our guys…
But while we’re hopelessly DOOMED it’s not over until it’s over…
And anyway I’d rather go away guns blazing and behaving like the Hanson Brothers (who cares for flagrants when you don’t play?).
#surpassing the expectations of even our most cockeyed optimists#
Personally i expected a bingbong year if all went right and expressed it here a few times when team started clicking but I won’t call it a sure or easily expected thing.
Brunson’s mild leadership alongside Thibs DefenseDictatorship seemed that matched in bball heaven and made the team a *miracle* to be proud to root for!
Unfortunately for my unrestricted fandom my working schedule is so fucked that i ain’t enjoying it Fully as I’d love to but I’m Still Excited and Pumped as Fuck for my Knicks!
Grimes’ steal while injured almost made me cry. That’s the Real Shit.
Iconic
Despite working for 12hrs 5th day in a row while having 2 more 12hrs shifts coming I’m trying to find an energy way to watch it live tonight at 2:30 in the morning while going to work at 07:00.
Watch or Sleep my psyche is already in Florida banging Drums of Ultimate Attack.
Just win, baby.
It just sucks that we’re doomed, you know?
I just wish I had some idea about how good Grimes really was… I wish someone here would make a case for or against him.
😉
As Ian Eagle put it perfectly on the broadcast, “Oh, cookies.”
(I’ve watched that clip like 20 times since Wednesday).
Nothing really matters.
Just Play Harder.
ESS-DOG NO
Meanwhile, what the hell do the Suns do now? They went all-in on Durant, gave up all their depth and all their picks. Do you just run it back, and hope Durant and an 80-year-old CP3 stays healthy through the playoffs? Do you see if you can rebuild some of your wing depth by trading Ayton? Just very rough to go out in the second round after making that trade.
Just watched it again now. Not sure why I’m ever doing anything but watching that clip. The best Knicks-related call since Breen’s double-Bang on Julius’ game-winner in Miami.
(Another reason why this season has been a success even though we’re doomed: we’ve had so many big moments that have brought out the best in the very best announcers in the business.)
Trade Booker and Durant to us for Randle and whatever salary filler obvi
Who is this “Grimes” fellow?
Would be kind of hilarious if Booker looked at the current asset situation and decided he wanted out. When Leon came here, everyone assumed that Booker was the guy he wanted to trade for more than anyone else, but then the Suns got so good that it seemed unfathomable that Booker would request a trade. Now? I still can’t imagine it happening, but it no longer seems utterly impossible.
If I were the Suns, I’d propose something like Ayton for Mitch and Grimes (Knicks shouldn’t accept) where they get multiple useful bodies for one.
Idk what to do about Paul though. I think you just have to ride out his contract and give him less minutes.
Maybe I’m wrong, but so far this season’s big trades haven’t gone so well: Murray, Gobert, Spida, Kyrie, Durant…
Maybe after this kind of trades, which usually let the buyers struggling for depth, you need at least one summer to refill the roster with mid-level, bi-annual and ring-chasing veterans at minimum contracts…
the suns should probably start by trading ayton…. he’s not really a playoff viable defensive big and that’s pretty much what they need…
other than that they could just run it back… they had some bad luck with how the bracket played out running into denver relatively early… i imagine next year with good health they can win 60….
Going into this season, I felt that 2022-23 was mostly about assessing our personnel so that the FO could establish next steps. It was clear that we were not a true contending team, and that making the second round was a 90+%ile outcome.
So now that we are in the gravy zone, Leon has the knowledge that he didn’t have last year. Here is my take on that info.
-We know that we are set at the PG position. Brunson is Him. IQ is a viable backup and spot starter. Deuce is a situational X-factor.
-The jury is still out on Grimes but he is at the very least a solid 3-and-D shooting guard who might be a valuable trade piece for upgrading this position. Hart is a fantastic bench piece but not really a starter.
-While I have been somewhat skeptical for obvious reasons, I truly believe that Playoff RJ is the real RJ, and not just some small sample theater. This is because there is nothing he is doing that is streaky or unsustainable. The best aspect of this longish playoff run has been finding our who he really is. Should we keep him? I still think he might be better suited for being a trade chip for a superstar, but barring that, yes, we should keep this 22yo budding star on what will be a marketable contract for its duration.
-PF is a quandary. Julius is maddening as hell, and often hard to root for. He is still on a fine contract for an all-NBA regular season player, so I don’t feel any urgency to move him. Obi is continuing to confirm what I have thought of him since day 1…he’s best suited for the role of energy PF off the bench, not a starter on a good team.
-Mitch, Mitch, Mitch. Unless we can land a stud like Embiid or Jokic or Bam, might as well keep him on his value descending contract. But if he is the key to a blockbuster for a superstar at any position, we shouldn’t hesitate. I’d be fine with rolling with iHart if it meant acquiring a top-20 player at another position.
So in short, only Brunson is untouchable. I doubt that Randle or Hart, are going anywhere.
My preference for trading the remaining players depends somewhat on what kind of player we get back. Aside from that, if the remaining rotation guys, my preference order for trade bait would be: Obi, then Mitch, then iHart, then Grimes, then RJ, then IQ.
Meanwhile, I have a good friend who’s a Sixers fan, and he is despondent today. That is among the silver linings of our situation: we weren’t supposed to do anything notable this year, so the fact that we’re doomed to lose to the Heat is less painful than if a team with the MVP and a future first-ballot Hall of Famer once again can’t get out of the second round.
Doc is once again letting his fanbase down.
Suns: They lost to the 1 seed in six games down two of their starters, it’s not really a disaster. I guess you fire Monty Williams and shuffle the pieces, hope that Durant & Booker et al will be better with actual practice time together. Maybe see if a new coach can get something out of Ayton but certainly trade him if you get a good offer.
I also think that there is no substitute for playoff experience. Even though IQ and Grimes have been underwhelming, they will take something away from this into the offseason. Same is true for the rest of the team, and for the team as a whole, but those two especially.
Max, I’m so freakin’ elated that we aren’t sitting around doing a post-mortem on how we could fix the roster without any picks or young trade assets after Spida failed to get us to the second round.
Wouldn’t mind Watching one more season of the same knicks core with slight additions and bench grooming.
Chemistry looks Great!
#big trades haven’t gone so well: Murray, Gobert, Spida, Kyrie, Durant…#
Wouldn’t mind also seeing the market for the bigdogs becoming more realityfriendly after going Insane, while the trades haven’t been successful for the bdogbuyer
This game tonight is MASSIVE! I don’t want this season to end!!!!!
I still think it’s a disaster. The Heat were down 2 starters including their superstar and came into MSG and almost took game 2. The Suns were at home and basically rolled over in a season ending game 6.
When you’ve got 2 of the top players in the NBA in Durant and Booker, that just cannot happen.
I guess the second half of the Nuggets-Suns game was like the first. What a no show. Suns certainly didn’t look better for having Ayton off the court.
As for Sixers fans, I loved this clip. Harden passing twice to PJ Tucker in a peak clutch moment was baffling.
https://twitter.com/ACE_ZULLO/status/1657025536483262477
Despite being mocked in here i think Pj Tucker was a big reason the Bucks won the chip since i watched the games closely back then.
He gave them toughness that they lacked before him and after letting him go. Sorry BobbyP…
I don’t want the season to end!! But (like Swift) I knew we would be here 😉
For me, the purpose of this season was simply to get more data on our young players. Thibs frustrated that goal the previous season but did the right thing this year. We know way more about IQ, Mitch, Grimes, even Obi, and Deuce. Coach even shortened RJ’s leash a bit as the season progressed, certainly after we got JHart, and I think that has improved the Canadian’s play.
Just as we all predicted, our team succeeded and was way more fun to watch once Thibs played the kids. Who knows if he was right to wait last year. But — win or lose — even these playoffs are *useful* to the extent that Thibs plays our youth as much as possible. And that is true whether we trade them for some superstar or have the patience to groom them into a dynasty after getting this necessary playoff experience.
The only sad thing, thus far, has been IQ’s dismal playoff play and now his injury, but maybe he grows bc of it. Or maybe we take this series (despite certain doom) and IQ ends up MVP of the NBA finals. Who knows. Either way, yes, get Deuce in there as a stopper. Find out if that is a sustainable look. Get Obi in there to let Randle meditate on the bench and rest. It always works better, Thibs. Play the kids.
Devin Booker and Donovan Mitchell are pretty similar. In fact, statistically, they are almost indistinguishable. (They also both have the power to score 70 points and have the power to turn invisible on the court.) And they are the same age and play the same position. Would KBers be happy paying the Mitchell price for Booker?
Call me a conspiracy theorist and a Thibs cheerleader if you like but i believe that Thibs hated all the acquisitions of No-D players the Knicks got: Fournier, Kemba and Reddish, possibly someone else’s choices, and if the team had avoided them we may had been one level up faster.
I think half of this isn’t true, but the vibes can still be outstanding.
This season has mildly surpassed the expectations of reasonable optimists. Again, Alan, I made the case for reasonable optimism to you before the season started, and this is almost precisely what I predicted.
Brunson has been incredible. Rose made the best free agent signing in the history of Knicks basketball.
Thibs has largely been the same coach he’s always been, which is fine.
As Josh Hart has become unplayable in this series, the pendulum has forever swung to the “wonderful player for whom we massively overpaid” side. (Caleb Martin cost $6mm, Max Strus is on the league minimum; the two of them are playing circles around Hart, who we gave up a first round pick for and are about to pay a stupid sum of money to.)
Julius and RJ have indeed proven their detractors were too hasty to dismiss them.
We’re not contenders but there is a visible path forward. But Leon’s malpractice with draft picks is catching up to us. There were three significant contributors in these playoffs who we could have easily had on our roster: Xavier Tillman, Jalen Johnson, and Jalen Williams. And we have no picks this June, which is quite bad.
Donnie, Booker is four inches taller than Spida, which makes him a better fit in a backcourt next to Brunson. Beyond that, I have no opinion. I know I contributed to this subject a few comments back, but in hindsight, I just want to focus on tonight’s doomed game, and worry about the offseason after we’re eliminated, because we have no shot of winning this contest, let alone the series, let alone somehow making it to the NBA Finals, let alone winning the whole damn thing.
In conclusion? Doomed.
There’s no reason for the vibes not to be good despite all that being said, though. We’re an imperfect team but we’re solid and entertaining . Leon, Thibs, Randle, and RJ all make boneheaded mistakes, but all of them do enough positive things to make us this good.
We’re also the best sports team in New York, pending Aaron Rodgers.
Typically, the team that gets the star player wins the trade because good role players are much easier to get via trade, FA, or draft picks than stars. But some of the deals this year seemed to cross the line of reasonable into “WTF” territory. The Suns in particular made a move that depleted a young quality team for what could turn out to be a very short window with a chronically hurt CP3 and aging and often hurt Durant. Maybe all the star trade failures this year will make the marker a little more rational.
I keep seeing hints that Towns wants out of Minny and I have to think even Minny management has to be second guessing the idiotic deal for Gobert and may want to do a small reset.
I’m not interested in a Towns/Randle frontcourt defensively, especially with Brunson and RJ on the perimeter, but maybe Randle can be moved as part of that deal and we can find a replacement defensive PF elsewhere.
Does anyone here really fear the Celtics, Sixers, Nuggets, or Lakers/Warriors?
Real big game tonight. Real big.
I’d like to see what the strategy is with these protected 1RPs that we’re sitting on. We have what, like four of those? DET, DAL, WAS, MIL, correct? The win curve here seems to have accelerated, so maybe it’s time to cash some of those in. We have traded out of three straight drafts and the avenues for improving the team are becoming more limited, so it seems like now might be the time to think about cashing those in for something.
I fear all those teams, for the regular season next year, because we are doomed.
Having said that, the Nuggets have taken over the title of “Playing the Beautiful Game” from the Warriors. Watching them is like eating French chocolate.
I also think we wait until after the game and our utter doomitude before diving into the offseason GM thing.
This is utter nonsense.
He’s not unplayable.
He’s more suited to the 2nd unit where he can play at a faster pace with Quick and Obi and where his playmaking and rebounding are more complimentary. The 2nd unit needs some extra rebounding and playmaking and he is way better in the open court playing faster.
The 1st unit has all the rebounding it needs between Mitch and Randle, plays slower, and the playmaking is in Brunson’s and Randle’s hands. What we need in the 1st unit is spacing. Setting aside Hart’s hot streak from 3, he’s not a floor spacer. Grimes is the better 3 point shooter and you have to stay close because his release is like lightening.
The Grimes injury required shuffling the deck a bit and impacted both of them, but Grimes is the starter, Hart is with the second unit, and closing depends on matchups and how RJ is shooting/thinking.
A handful of games, especially when people are not in their appropriate roles are meaningless. Josh Hart was a steal.
Hart seems like he has the yips a little bit in this Miami series, he’s just not playing his game. Looks hesitant on offense, and is too aggressive on defense. His magic power is his is steady, confident, assertive play, and that has gone missing a bit against Miami. I think he’s a better player than he has shown in the last couple of games.
For years I would get Josh Hart confused with mediocre Syracuse PG Jason Hart. I’d see “J. Hart” in a boxscore and think “wow, Jason Hart is still in the league, that’s crazy” and then it would turn out to be Josh Hart, then I’d forget about it again for a while until I saw “J. Hart” in a boxscore again.
IMO, patience is what is driving their draft day actions. They mostly were and still are looking for a star level player that makes sense and where the price is right. But you need currency to complete a deal like that. That’s why they keep rolling picks out instead of just drafting some likely role player.
They can try to move up in the draft or make a trade. In fact, they have tried both. But you have to find the right player, a willing trade partner, and the right price. That requires patience. What they do with all their picks will be dependent on what’s available. It’s not defined yet. There is no plan other than to get better in logical short and long and short term ways.
He’s not a kid, but this is his first playoff experience and there has been a lot pressure on him also with the injuries to Grimes and now Quick (over and above he’s not as good a fit with the way he’s being used in this series because of the injuries).
Patience is great and all, but at some point you’d have been better off just making the picks you already had. You can’t keep punting these picks forever.
We’re no longer planning for some distant future in which we could contend, which is a great thing! The future is now. I’m not suggesting doing something hasty with those picks and burning them for no reason, but it seems like now is the time to start using them to upgrade the team.
Health and Character should be very important factors of the star player chasing imo
We already have a good thing going here
No need to throw in a toxic dick with game
Josh Hart had two good games this series idk about unplayable
Guys are what they are and they don’t change dramatically game to game, series to series. The narrative definitely does though.
I can’t wait until draft day when the hot takes about who we could have drafted with the pick we gave up for Josh Hart begin….
what’s up with “French” chocolate?
I love chocolate, I can’t think though of any notable French chocolate manufacturers…
I’m curious now – as you can see, I take this chocolate stuff very seriously 😛
Geo, a family that I tutor for went to Paris over Spring break and brought me back a box from Maison du Chocolate. It was damn sublime both without an edible and especially with one.
Z-man – 30th pick won’t be worth much.
I kid, I kid. DOOMED
The hardest of no’s on KAT, I’d rather Thibs coach here for the next decade than ever see his soft ass in a Knicks uniform.
geo…i am right there with you on chocolate ….after spending a solid decade travelling in europe for work in the 90’s…i would say if I had to rank it on nationality
1. Dutch
2. Belgian
3. Swiss
I can’t recall French being one that i was high on but its all hazy anyway…
re:knicks…regardless of the outcome tonight…this board should be off the charts with wild hot takes for about 72 hours after the final seconds tick off…the heat are approaching or have arrived at the same hate level as the celtics/lakers for me…i respect butler but something about him really makes me dislike him…
That’s hysterical, I actually thought of putting Belgian or Swiss down, but I remember these little chocolates I got in Paris that were so creamy they made me audibly sigh. So I’m sticking to my armes…
Josh Hart was “unplayable” in games 4 and 5 on account of foul trouble. In games 1-3, he averaged 38 minutes and put up 13/10/5 with an 11.4 game score. He certainly hasn’t shot well, but he’s also spent the most time on Jimmy Butler out of anyone on the roster: https://www.nba.com/stats/team/1610612752/matchups?PORound=2&dir=A&sort=OFF_PLAYER_NAME
On the draft night thread, I implore the Hart trade dead enders identify a player available at #23 or later who will make us rue the day we traded for the guy who put up a 3.4 BPM with us post-deadline, held Donovan Mitchell to a .518 TS% in the first round, and presumably re-signed with us (which, again, would not have happened in the absence of the trade) to say nothing of possible continued 2023 contributions.
Re Butler, very hard not to appreciate him, but he’s got an in-game attitude that reminds me of Jordan, he lives on Butler Island and you’re not invited, and if you show up he’ll push you into the water and drown you without a second thought, while admiring the sunset. I’m sure he’s a super-nice guy in real life (maybe), but if he’s not on your team, it makes it very hard to root for him.
“Running it back” is basically never a good idea for anyone but the most clear-cut contenders, and even for them it can be a bad idea, so suffice to say we should look to upgrade.
That said, the success of this year definitely gives us some leverage in trade talks because we can credibly say we’re not too angsty to do anything.
Our needs aren’t a mystery–we need to improve our shotmaking. My preferred route to do so would be to finally land a superstar, apex predator type who moves everyone down on the totem pole.
In the absence of that, I’d be a bit hesitant to spend on smaller upgrades because those are never certain and might just take away from the asset pool we’ll need if we’re to land that guy. I’m not sure I see the point in giving up a ton for OG Anunoby, for example.
I’m not firmly opposed to smaller upgrades though if the value proposition is good…as it clearly was with regards to Josh Hart 😉
Can’t believe I’m thinking this, but a month ago a friend set up a dinner tonight with an Academy Award winning writer-director and I’ve spent the morning considering the consequences of bailing.
I’m going to focus on the game, but I guess we can warm up a bit — so I’ll preview it, without follow up.
1. A bunch of us pay little to no attention to BPM and there’s no reason to if you watch the games. I wrote a decent-size post on the book “How Data Happened” a few weeks ago that touched on the inability of experts and eye testers to explain themselves to AI-seeking supercomputers and, by implication, laymen. It’s directly on point here.
2. No single player “holds” another single player to a particular field goal percentage in today’s (or any other day’s) NBA. We touched on this yesterday.
And with that, there’s a really big game tonight and I really want the Knicks to win it. So I really hope Quentin Grimes and Josh Hart and all the rest play a fantastic game. The offseason will come when the offseason comes.
Rama – You don’t want to skip that meeting to watch the Knicks lose do you?
I went from having hating the Heat programmed into my DNA to being the resident Heat fan on Knickerblogger because of him. That’s how easy it is for me to root for him.
Good news that doesn’t feel like good news: Scott “The Extender” Foster is crew chief tonight and the Heat are 0-10 and 1-9 ATS when he officiates 🙂
Searching for anything to give me hope right now. The fix is in!
Okay. I’ve probably missed a low-single-digit number of games Josh Hart has played as a Knick. I can confirm via the eye-test that he has been very good in those games. I don’t know what more to say on the matter other than that’s the overwhelming consensus from fans and pundits alike, since you’ve already said you care not for the pesky empirics that all point to the same conclusion.
Maybe, but Hart spent 41 minutes guarding Mitchell. Grimes was the next closest, with 16 minutes.
Maybe it’s the world’s craziest coincidence that Mitchell played poorly and it had nothing to do with the players tasked with defending him. Back to the eye test though, that was not my impression!
Hart was fantastic in the regular season for the Knicks. Anyone who says anything else didn’t watch the games or look at the numbers.
I was stationed in Germany (heilbronn) in the late 80’s…I fell in love with those Ritter chocolate bars…
waaaaay better than any shit Hershey’s ever made…
one of the cooler things in the cannabis world has been the improvement of the taste/quality of edibles…
what I like about watching Jimmy is after the game the diverse set of folks he physically embraces and seems to have a close relationship with…
not sure which game it was now, but after one of them it was really cool to see him pick up a friend’s kid to give the child a hug…
like the game meant little to him once it was over, what mattered was his friend and their child…
Rama, you have to go to the dinner. It’s a win-win. If the Knicks lose – which we know they will, because they’re doomed — you didn’t have to watch it, and you got to spend the evening with an Oscar winner. If they win, you still got to spend the evening with an Oscar winner, and you’ll get to see Game 7. Which, to be fair, we’d be doomed in. But still.
Doesnt help Hart’s case that Butler gets pretty much any foul call he wants. I still cant believe that flagrant call from last game.
Yeah, someone mentioned the flagrant foul yesterday. One of the most bullshit calls I can remember in a playoff game.
#“Running it back” is basically never a good idea for anyone but the most clear-cut contenders, and even for them it can be a bad idea, so suffice to say we should look to upgrade.#
Upgrade internally via your young players growth is the goal here
Unless there’s a nice player to get without selling your farm
Oscar winners aren’t all they’re cracked up to be. I say, choose the Knicks!
#And with that, there’s a really big game tonight and I really want the Knicks to win it. So I really hope Quentin Grimes and Josh Hart and all the rest play a fantastic game. The offseason will come when the offseason comes.#
ReverseDoom at every cost i see here!
Idk what these signs mean but tonight is our 18th relationship anniversary with LadyKyn while also my cat peed on the bed after refusing to start taking prezolon for her today started therapy
I guess they’re both Good Signs!
It’s been fascinating to watch the Knicks grow from game to game this series, and I think they’ll put up a fight again, but it’s not going to be enough. So this is my prediction.
this is the wrong time to get into this but this is absolutely the wrong way to think about it…. nobody is clairvoyant… the results just like with the incinerated pick may or may not actually result in a material player… the problem is the overall strategy….
and if you look at the overall multitude of incinerated picks… starting from the original incinerated 2nd rd pick…. down to the actual incinerated pick … and up to the lotto pick punt for hartenstein…. in totality it was a net negative….
along with this front office’s obsession with right now contributors that go all the way into the draft… the list of guys we missed out on is quite long… to the point that even if you rewind all the actual good moves from the front office you could field a superior team just through a competent draft…. which would include the likes of paul reed… jalen johnson… haliburton and jalen williams….
which is why all these people doing victory laps because you think got it right one time is quite stupid…. that’s like what fortune tellers do.. and that’s basically how newsletter scams work as it feeds on people’s ego and need to be right regardless of how you got there…. the problem wasn’t the move in isolation…. the problem is the move in context to everything… and it worked out in isolation.. but the overall problem still exists… we need more bullets… and we need players better than josh hart… and the easiest and best way to get them for a capped out team is through the draft….
look at the sixers… they’ve been perennial contenders… but a big contributor now is tyrese maxey… who was a late first rd pick…. he’s arguably their 2nd best player in this postseason…. you can’t sustain teams with ok low usage players because they are vastly inconsistent year to year and game to game in the playoffs…. you need as many high caliber players as you can get…. and yea it might be a long shot with a late first rd pick.. but it also represents your best shot out of all the options you do have and you should be using those bullets for that purpose….
@Djphan
#Truth or dare#
Do you prefer tonight’s game or Draft night to be your Groundhog day eternal fate?
I can’t make it to the game tonight but looking at the prices I’m pissed. Tickets for Game 6 are going for almost half of what tickets for Game 3 went which is the game I unfortunately attended.
Even Heat beat writers are tweeting about plenty of tickets still be available. What a pathetic fan base the Heat have which I’ve always been well aware of.
The absolute worst.
RJ having fun! 😀
Djphan, I immediately went on the record about all of our terrible draft moves. They were varied, but the problem with all of them essentially boiled down to the same thing: we did not get reasonable value, present or future, for the draft equity we traded away.
But not all transactions involving draft picks are equal! It is in fact possible to trade a draft pick for a player and come out on top in the transaction.
Just like I immediately went on record saying we lost the incineration trade, I immediately went on the record saying we got good value, both present and future, in the Hart trade based on the expected value of lottery-protected first round picks.
It’s quite frankly a copout to say that the Hart trade can still be bad even if no player picked in that range emerges as a better alternative to Hart. That was an eminently predictable outcome based on the past production of such picks. All the empirics on the matter were clear as day on this front–Hart is rather substantially better than the expected ROI.
So it’s totally cool to disagree with the consensus on the Hart trade, but it rings hollow if you don’t pick a player or players in the draft and build your case around them.
What makes the flagrant foul hard to accept is that they went to review the play. A mistake in the flow of the game we can understand, to go review it and come up with that decision was baffling.
For tonight, i only ask the team to give maximum effort and keep fighting until the end. And well, it looks like i could be an NBA coach… PLAY HARDER!!! 😀
Maybe the director likes basketball?
@Rama — every Oscar winning writer/director worth their salt is a Knicks fan, so fire up the League Pass at dinner.
i can’t decide how i’m going to self medicate prior to the game to help me get through it….but whatever julius was on in that twitter snippet…that would probably do the trick…
E, you’re not an expert and you can’t make a better determination than the stats. But experts also say Hart is a really good player.
You’re also assuming basketball is a sport better understood by experts than by numbers, which isn’t always the case. And I’m sure the book you refer to doesn’t dismiss numbers, being less accurate doesn’t mean inaccurate.
But this is already too much effort responding to a claim that fails to make anything other than a generalized statement.
Any expert will tell you Hart is more than worth the pick, and your “pick is better than player” algorithm is more likely to result in the type of error you’re describing.
Good points, all. Going to the dinner. If it were Ben Stiller (he’s never won, tho?), I’d be set, but I am pretty sure I am not. Either way, I’m missing a loss, or I’ll be able to watch game 7. It’ll work either way.
If it’s Joel Coen, choose the dinner. If it’s Woody Allen, choose the game. For everybody else, choose neither and read a good book.
Really confused why we’re debating the Hart trade again. I thought we all agreed that if the Knicks won a playoff series and hart was a reason why then the trade was worth it. We did and he was. Debate over.
If it was Stiller or Allen, they’d probably have cancelled on you to watch the game
Because some people won’t let other people simply post purely factual things about how various players are playing in various playoff games.
Walter Hill’s getting up there, but you have Dead For a Dollar, 48 Hours, and The Warriors over a 44-year span. I’d still probably go Game 6, but just saying.
and i was on record as saying that Hart was a pretty good player…. i never said he was a bad player or that he wouldn’t make an impact…. i probably had a higher opinion of him than most here short of any hysterics that he’d be a 20usg player….
the problem is what it means long term…. you cannot continually give up future value for present value and not pay for it…. and we have already…. it may not occur with one move in isolation but in aggregate you will…. and there’s a possibility that we pay very dearly….. this move is not in isolation to everything else…. it’s part of the overall strategy.. it’s part of the whole thinking that we need to win right now… it’s the same kind of thinking that brought the band back for really bad value… it’s why we burn picks for literally nothing… it’s why we got josh hart… because for whatever reason right now is more important than anything else…
i have never ever played the victory lap game… that just because i was right this one time doesn’t validate any analysis that i have.. which is why i post my big board every year… i get things wrong but in aggregate there’s more signal than noise in whatever that i do and that’s because getting through the muck of random noise is important to me.. it’s just like poker… surfing the variance of a literal deck of cards has to be ingrained in you if you want to make it there and it’s helped me immensely in all parts of my life…
if you play the victory lap game you will vacilate between stupid and smart in a random fashion… that’s probably good enough for you…. but getting to the truth is important to me and getting through random variation is pretty key to that…
People remember that Hart put up a near triple-double in one of our only two wins this series, right?
And if anything, it’s looking like we should have actually gone all-in this year.
and i’d be happy to admit that was i wrong about the hart trade this year… i didn’t think we could make it to the second rd…. but i’m not so concerned about this year and i never was…. we probably care about different things and i know i’m pretty different in the way that i think which about basketball which is why i dont’ bemoan anyone’s hot takes that gyrate game to game or if they’re right or wrong about any one thing….
so if it’s important to you then i am wrong… but i dont think you really understand the position given how binary you think this all is….
and i never got an answer to this… but the hart trade has some close analog to the sabonis deal….. and i imagine most probably feel conflicted to that deal which is why folks were dodging it… but it’s food for thought in this case….
it’s ok to be happy you got someone and that it worked out in the short term and bemoan the long term results…
It takes five seconds on BB-ref to be able to adjudge Josh Hart’s performance in this series as significantly sub-par.
In eye test terms, even at his best, he’s not a guy that other teams have to really account for on the offensive end in standard-issue half court sets as any kind of ex ante threat — because … well … he isn’t — although he is pretty good at getting random points in scramble-type situations.
Hopefully, he’ll play much better tonight. They need him to.
(Now the game threads will be turned into victory laps if he has even a single good possession, but let’s hope that doesn’t happen. Maybe Max’s warning can be a sticky at the beginning of all such threads from here on out, which hopefully will be many more even though they’re completely DOOMED.)
The only question I have is whether Josh Hart and Gary Payton II were separated at birth.
In terms of analytical templates and what Swifty said, no — channeling Hubert — this isn’t a “house money” situation. You don’t get to play like dogshit in this series and have it ignored as house money games.
Doesn’t work that way.
Hopefully this principle will become inapplicable or moot.
Remind me what you said on the Sabonis-Hart comp?
For all KB’s Starks fans! 😉
@Cyber
I’m thinking about that game since the end of Game-5…
Alas we’re DOOMED 😉
“In terms of analytical templates and what Swifty said, no — channeling Hubert — this isn’t a “house money” situation. You don’t get to play like dogshit in this series and have it ignored as house money games.
Doesn’t work that way.”
Ahh, got it. Thanks as always for mansplaining to all of us how it works.
we’ll need a full report on what you had for dinner rama…
and – was the conversation better than the dinner?
wait, isn’t simply stating that you’ve never played that game – in fact – playing that game 😮
Cyber!!! Yes!!!
Quickley is OUT again. So, of course, we are doomed.
E trying to take a victory lap for being right on Grimes & Hart based on a handful of games instead of the last several months while accusing everyone else for using small samples is peak E.
BTW Hart has been great this playoffs up till the last 2 games while Grimes has played minimal minutes and taken minimal shots because of injury. But definitely fair to judge Grimes on that basis.
“wait, isn’t simply stating that you’ve never played that game – in fact – playing that game 😮”
Game, set, and match to Geo…
calm before the storm…..
i mean…at least we can throw out some guesses as to which Dylan song BC is going to quote tonight on the game thread or make our own suggestions…
🎶She said, “Where ya been?” I said, “No place special”
She said, “You look different.” I said, “Well, I guess”
She said, “You been gone.” I said, “That’s only natural”
She said, “You gonna stay?” I said, “If you want me to, yes”🎶
Serve Somebody.
to the nba old guard
The line it is drawn
The curse it is cast
The slow one now
Will later be fast
As the present now
Will later be past
The order is rapidly fadin’
And the first one now
Will later be last
For the times they are a-changin’
Knicks are 0-14 all time, after trailing 3-1 in the series. And only on 2 of those 14 we managed to take the series to game 7.
This looks like a pessimistic take but it isn’t, because the more i think about it, the more i have the feeling we must have better odds of breaking the curse. It’s very hard to do this 14 times in a row, so 15 would be even harder. It’s a win, i can feel it, although i can feel we’re doomed too.
i just want it to be close at halftime..my wife’s cooking a tagine tonight…gonna take awhile so i need to be entertained until its done…
🎶 Yes, and how many times can a man (refs) turn his head
And pretend that he just doesn’t see?
The answer, my friend
Is blowin’ in the wind
The answer is blowin’ in the wind 🎶
‘Over his past eight playoff games, Barrett has averaging 22.5 points on 50 percent accuracy from the field and 38 percent accuracy from deep. His true shooting over this stretch: a hair above 60 percent. That’s top-notch scoring from a No. 2 option, which is what Barrett has become during this run.’
Life is full of mysteries…