[news.google.com] — Monday, February 27, 2023 7:01:22 AM
Celtics vs. Knicks prediction, odds, line, start time: 2023 NBA picks, Feb. 27 best bets from proven model CBS Sports
[news.google.com] — Monday, February 27, 2023 5:49:00 AM
2/27 Game Preview: Celtics at Knicks NBA.com
[news.google.com] — Monday, February 27, 2023 5:30:00 AM
NBA power rankings 2022-23: DraftKings Nation
[news.google.com] — Monday, February 27, 2023 12:19:00 AM
Celtics’ Jaylen Brown to miss Knicks clash for personal reasons New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 11:50:49 PM
The Knicks and May Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 11:04:00 PM
Tom Thibodeau’s decision to trim Knicks rotation turned season around New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 10:43:00 PM
Knicks get perfect chance to show where they stand as Celtics visit Garden New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 7:14:01 PM
Trae Young just helped the Knicks gain ground in the Eastern Conference standings, LOL Posting and Toasting
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 4:57:49 PM
Celtics’ Star Ruled Out for Monday’s Matchup vs. Knicks Sports Illustrated
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 4:49:00 PM
Celtics injury report: Jaylen Brown out against Knicks due to personal reasons MassLive.com
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 2:20:38 PM
Boston Celtics vs New York Knicks Prediction, 2/27/2023 Preview and Pick Doc’s SportsCeltics vs. Knicks prediction, odds, line, start time: 2023 NBA picks, Feb. 27 best bets from proven model CBS SportsKnicks blow out Pelicans on night 1972-73 title team honored New York Post
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 11:03:22 AM
Knicks will test championship mettle in showdown with Celtics AMNY
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 9:07:23 AM
Why Knicks have little interest in buying out Derrick Rose Yahoo SportsKnicks’ Derrick Rose response to Suns’ reported interest New York Post Derrick Rose says he has not discussed buyout with Knicks NBC Sports
[news.google.com] — Sunday, February 26, 2023 8:00:00 AM
Knicks fans will laugh at latest 76ers-James Harden free agency rumor Daily Knicks
83 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.02.27)”
Seems like the optimists becoming the realists day by day…
I know we’re not on the same level talentwise as the best teams of this season but i wouldn’t rule out anything…
Body Language says clearly “one for all and all for one” and i think it’s time to abandon our comfort habbit of draft picks frenzy in here and focus on the right trade move to start contending.
Adding Josh Hart was an incredible pickup. You have to give the FO credit when it’s due. And it is due.
Get well soon E!
I was worried before the B2B, things were going too well before the break, but they passed the test with flying colors, first a street brawl with a big comeback and then a dominant win against an opponent in a bad streak.
J-Hart gives Thibs a lot of flexibility and a selfless player he can count on in every situation.
Like two years ago this team has an identity and it’s very “new yorker”…
Oh, no worries at all Alan.
Hart has not only been awesome, but he has been a good reality check for RJ (no more bullshit, RJ!)
Feel better, E. PS Julius and Thibs send their regards…
E, get better soon!!!
I wonder…how many people are still in the Bones Hyland is a carbon copy of IQ camp?
This team is so fun to watch and has serious playoff potential. However, I have to sort of agree with E that our ceiling is Julius Randle’s ceiling. I cringe to think of what our record would have been without this version of him. Brunson, Mitch, and IQ are all massively important, and you can probably add Hart to that list although we were pretty damn good before he got here.
But Randle has been the rock, and imho the most essential player on the team. Brunson has been truly great and all, but the tone Randle has been setting in the first half of game after game can’t be overstated. And the amount of times he defends some of the best players in the NBA in crundh time also gets lost in the shuffle.
I’m itching to find out whether he can maintain that into the playoffs. I mean, to have overcome the boos and thumbs down shit and have the season that he’s having is certainly an encouraging development. And that’s where Brunson and Hart come in…they might help keep his worst instincts at bay. But without an efficient high-usage Randle this team is not winning a playoff series.
I have to give it Knicks fans credit compared to Dallas fans. When the Knicks are going bad, people blame various combinations of the owner, management, coach, and individual players.
Dallas fans are putting almost the entire blame on Kidd when their owner has done more dumb things in just the last few years than Dolan has done in any similar stretch. That’s quite an achievement.
They have no interior defense, struggle on the boards, don’t have enough depth, have a looney bird as the co-star, still have a few bad contracts, are missing a couple of 1st rounders, and have a superstar that still doesn’t know how to play without doing everything because the owner kept building the team that way. Many of these problems have existed for a couple of years and each move has dug them deeper into a hole.
When you have Doncic and Irving, you are going to win games, but watching Cuban doing everything he could to maximize Doncic’s stats and make him happy in the short term, imo, is ironically going to increase the chances he’s eventually going to leave.
I can’t disagree that this team without this Randle is another kind of team.
But we should not also forget that this team with this Randle BUT with a less intense D is also a different team.
Imagine the East Playoff Semis with Bucks losing Giannis, the Sixers losing Embiid, the Celtics losing Taytum and the Knicks losing Randle.
Who would win the east if all the stars were off?
I appreciate your loathing of Cuban, but it could be relatively easy to address their needs, Strat. As we have seen, you can pick up a Kessler/Robinson/Williams type low in the first or even second round. And limited though excellent players like Mikal Bridges don’t tend to go high in the lottery either. And acquiring non-high-lottery picks isn’t all that hard — just ask the Knicks. What IS hard is acquiring a generational talent.
Complementary players can be found in lots of places. I’m not terribly concerned that a good team can’t be built around Doncic.
Strat, the difference is that Cuban has built up a bunch of good will by assembling a championship winning team, and then trading for Luka which has got to be in the top handful of smart roster moves in the last 5 years. Dolan has no such good will. And Kidd is an easy target for very good reasons.
“Imagine the East Playoff Semis with Bucks losing Giannis, the Sixers losing Embiid, the Celtics losing Taytum and the Knicks losing Randle.
Who would win the east if all the stars were off?”
I don’t think the order would change much. Each team has a secondary star (Brown, Holiday, Harden, Brunson…we’d still be last in that lineup) and a solid rotation of complementary players.
I agree that finding a player like Doncic is the hardest part. But Cuban’s approach to team building has essentially been to add players that maximize Doncic’s boxscore stats and chances at an MVP instead of insisting he get in peak NBA shape, focus on both sides of the ball, and building a balanced team of two way players around him so he learns how to play without the ball also.
It’s not some strange coincidence that KP was miserable playing with Doncic (He loved playing with Melo and enjoys playing with Beal and Kuzma (lol). That’s how bad playing with Doncic in that offense was for him.) and Brunson chose to leave a contender like that and come to a team that didn’t even make the playoffs last year. Sure, there were other factors, but no one that’s really good player wants to be a glorified floor spacer for Doncic and take the blame if the team comes up short because he’s not a good enough Robin.
They need to do a slow tear down and sensible rebuild using all avenues possible, but focused on team instead of Doncic.
I don’t know. I’m not worried about the playoffs with Randle.
A lot of the sports psychology cliches that people used to describe Randle’s playoff performance against the hawks just don’t ring true to me.
He wasn’t tired. He didn’t wear down. The Hawks game planned for him perfectly and we didn’t really have another elite scorer on the team to relieve that pressure. Our 2nd best options were D Rose and Burks.
This year we got Brunson in the starting line up. The upgrade on offense from Elf to Brunson is so huge it’s not even worth trying to quantify. Brunson can get his in the playoffs even without another star to help him. We saw it last year in the playoffs when Doncic was out. Brunson can drop 30 or even 40 in the playoffs. We know this.
That is going to make life SO much easier for Randle.
And if everyone stays healthy we’re also going from Noel/Taj as our center tandem to Mitch/IHart. Another massive upgrade.
True we don’t have D Rose off the bench (although I guess technically we still do). But we now have HART and a VASTLY IMPROVED IQ.
RJ (despite all our grumblings) is also a better player than he was 2 years ago.
That playoff team was a better defensive team but this is a much more complete team. That team was good defense and Randle. That’s it.
I say all of this not to say we’re gonna win multiple series. Just that I think we stand a better chance this year to make noise and win a series and I don’t think Randle is going to get shut down quite like he did 2 years ago.
#I don’t think the order would change much. Each team has a secondary star (Brown, Holiday, Harden, Brunson…we’d still be last in that lineup) and a solid rotation of complementary players.#
Idk…all 4 teams have secondary stars and pretty good Defense but i feel that losing Randle won’t hurt us as much as the other three teams if losing their stars.
The difference is that Randle ain’t exactly an MVP candidate despite playing the best basketball of his career. The other three are.
Z–Man, completely in sync with your commentary about the importance of Randle to this team, it can’t be overstated. But I think what’s allowed Randle to be this incandescent version of himself is Brunson. Julius has the physical gifts but not the mental/emotional acuity to be a point forward, and taking that away from him has allowed him to focus on what he’s really good at. Brunson’s been fantastic in his own right, but what he’s provided by shouldering that responsibility also can’t be overstated.
All I know is Philly would come in last. Doc has no plan B without Embiid, while the other 3 teams have coaches who actually can coach.
I just want to say that Brunson may have single handedly changed the entire attitude, culture, and impression of this team around the league. And I usually scoff and people who mention this stuff! Having a solid, serious, competitive and competent PG really was as important as we’ve been saying for years!
“Feel better, E. PS Julius and Thibs send their regards…”
Hopefully their sigs are worth a lot!
Thanks, all — pretty much recovered.
“However, I have to sort of agree with E that our ceiling is Julius Randle’s ceiling. I cringe to think of what our record would have been without this version of him.”
Yeah, their playoff potential now to a large degree comes down to the kind of boring, “It depends on how well they play.” If they play well, beating CLE isn’t remotely out of the question. If they play like in the ATL series, they’re probably going to get waxed. I think they’ll play better than ATL, but I have no way of really prognosticating anything on that front and I won’t even try.
I do think at this point that barring injury, they’ll be the 5 seed. Regular season Knicks aren’t going away.
Brunson never losing his cool and leading by example i think has made a huge difference in team’s mentality.
Unselfishness is also very evident lately making the team extremely fun to watch and proud to root for.
I want the big dog in order to contend but i prefer the high character of this squad to not change in favour of a spoiled big dog. In other words:
Only Trained Big Dogs allowed
Oh, yeah — pretty sure I got it at that Nets/Sixers game shortly after the TDL so that’s pretty much all she wrote for the “crush” lol.
The one thing that worries me about the Knicks in the playoffs is Randle’s 3 point shooting. He’s still not what I would a good or smart 3 point shooter. He takes some really tough ones on high volume given his skill level. In the playoffs the defenses are going to be tougher on average and the pressure is also going be higher. Some of those marginal ones may start bricking a little more often. If he plays the same way, he’s going to have some 1-8, 2-10 , 3-14 nights. We don’t have enough margin for safety to win games where he shoots like that from 3. We can’t afford to have many of them.
This is an entirely different issue than the one with Hawks where they just doubled him, took him out of the game, and since we had no real PG or other scoring options we were totally screwed.
If the Mavs played exactly the same way, with Doncic dominating the ball but instead surrounded by competent players instead of late 2010’s Knicks rejects they’d probably be fine. Doncic is not the issue with that team, nor is it “Cuban wants Doncic to win MVP.” They just have lots and lots of shitty players and have given out tons of minutes to guys who stink.
They’ve given about 2000 minutes to replacement level players like Ntilikina, Hardy, McGee, Pinson, Wright, and Bertans, then another 3500 minutes to Hardaway and Bullock. That’s 5500 minutes going to players who are somewhere on the spectrum from “bad” to “probably should be playing in China.”
Talent evaluation is their real problem. You bring in a lot of players who stink, you’re going to have a relatively limited ceiling even if you have a 10 BPM player to paper over all the mistakes.
I think both Brunson and Randle are the reason we’re fighting for the 5th place (well, that and Kyrie bolting the Nets! LOL), and i don’t think one is more important than the other. Now if RJ could start playing like a 3rd banana, that would be huge. The role players are great – IQ, Hart, Grimes, Mitch, iHart. Obi has been a disappointment and if he keeps playing this way, we’ll have an 8-man rotation in the playoffs without Obi.
Now if RJ could start playing like a 3rd banana, that would be huge.
This is what it really will come down to. Hopefully the last 2 games are indicative of RJ going forward. He doesn’t need to score 25 a night. Some nights, depending on match ups and how he’s shooting, he absolutely will get 25. Other nights he might just get 10 to 15 if Randle and Brunson are really cooking. IF he is ok with that and focuses on playmaking, rebounding and defense at all times, he will be fine. This is where the HART competition/mentorship hopefully comes into play.
If RJ manage to get his shit together and Obi starts going back to the weight room we may do something special this season.
Obi playing like a reincarnated Steve Novak instead of a modern Shawn Kemp has destroyed my mind this season…Lift some weights maaan!
And get in the fkn paint! Giannis and Taytum ain’t stupid to do it…
“This is what it really will come down to.”
I think it comes down to a lot of things. We are *barely* meeting TNFH’s threshhold of 2 star (roughly 4.0 or above) minimum threshhold for being a *good* playoff team. That suggests that everyone has to play well within his role to have any success.
It could be argued that the biggest X-factor in the playoffs is Grimes. He’s still a very young and inexperienced player in a significant starting role. Yet he has been very inconsistent from 3 for over 2 months now. If Randle starts bricking, he MUST be a more consistent knockdown threat for us to have any success.
Tonight is a great test for us. This is the kind of game where we have to be operating on all cylinders to be competitive. While it’s sort of a scheduled loss, I’d love to see us pull the rug out from under those a-holes.
The problem with the Dallas Mavericks is absolutely talent evaluation, I’m 100% with JK on this one. Just take a look at their draft picks since, well, let’s pick 2010 as an arbitrary data point: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_Mavericks_draft_history
There is almost absolutely nothing. Since 2010, their 1st round picks have been: Jordan Hamilton, Tyler Zeller, Kelly Olynyk (never played a minute for them), Justin Anderson, DSJr, then the Luka trade for Trae Young, then Josh Green, who is a promising player and the one “hit” so far on this list outside of the Luka trade.
They also haven’t found anything in the 2nd round outside of Brunson, and they let him go because of a series of stupid decisions. It’s really, really hard to build a team when you either trade away all your picks, trade the players you get with them immediately or simply miss on all of them.
Part of this is om Cuban surely, because he’s the guy who hires the front office. But it’s astounding just how much they have absolutely ignored or failed in the draft since forever. Even before 2010, their only good draft pick was Josh Howard in 2003, and then you’d have to go back all the way to 1994 to find Jason Kidd on the list. It’s crazy.
So currently the Knicks are tied for 7th in net rating for the entire season.
I spent my train ride this morning looking at where the top 10 net rating teams are in terms of asset war chests, average age of starting lineup, etc… pretty interesting:
1. Boston – average starting lineup age 28.4, they are (-)1 first round pick, (-1) swap, -4 second round picks, and are in the tax
2. Cleveland – avg starting lineup 23.2 (!), -4 first round picks, -2 swaps, + 2 second round picks, NOT in tax
3. Denver -> 27yo, -3 first round picks, -3 second round picks, TAX
4. Memphis -> 25.2yo, +1 FRP, +2 SRP, no tax
5. Philly -> 30.4yo, -3 FRP, -2 SRP, + TAX
6. MIL -> 29.6yo, -3 FRP, -2 swap, -4 SRP, + TAX
7. SAC -> 25.4yo, -1 FRP, +4 SRP, no tax
8. NYK -> 24.4yo, +3 FRP, + 1 SRP (assuming Portland gets our first)
9. PHX -> 29.4yo (not sure if that’s including Durant), -4 FRP, -1 swap, -1 SRP, + TAX
10. Comically – OKC -> 21.8yo, +6 FRP, +2 swaps, +12 SRP, no tax
So we are one of 3 teams in the top 10 net rating teams who have more than our usual allotment of picks, 3rd youngest starting lineup, and the other two are Memphis and OKC, neither of which are likely to be FA destinations or destinations that “stars” will force their way to…
Anyway, just thought it was an interesting way to look at it.
(meanwhile, OKC is just loaded. Let’s not forget they have the #2 pick from this year (Chet Holmgen) who will join the party next year too).
Shockingly Strat is engaging in a bit of revisionist history to support a narrative. Brunson was not desperate to free himself from Luka, he was willing to extend for 4/$54M! Cuban passed on that, which strongly supports the “it’s the non-Luka talent evaluation, stupid*” theory of the case for the Mavs’ relative struggles.
*I’m not calling anyone stupid, and while I think most people get the James Carville reference, you never know, so clarifying here that I am in fact making a James Carville reference.
Frank, good stuff. I wanted to write a similar post but was in court all morning. Hate when real life gets in the way of making Good Knickerblogger Posts, but yours is better than mine would’ve been anyway.
I would just add that New Orleans is worth mentioning despite not being top-10 in net rating, as they were easily there with Zion healthy and have a pretty insane draft ledger–2023 LAL swap, 2024 LAL pick outright, 2024 MIL swap, 2026 MIL swap, and 2027 MIL pick outright.
Basically, we’re not the single best positioned team in the league by any stretch of the imagination. But there’s no award for being the single best positioned team, and there are a lot of determinants of contention that happen independent of asset chests and the like. Our relative position is solidly above average, IMO.
What has changed for me since the beginning of the season is I now think we’re in a very good position to capitalize on a reasonable degree of good fortune, whereas prior to the season I thought the amount of good fortune we’d need was pie-in-the-sky stuff.
Last 10 games
The east is streaky man
there’s just no winning against you is there E…
dang, i was ready to come out strong with a Purgatory pEtE (someone else came up with that little bit of brilliance) bit…
here you go and suck the joy right out of that with your sickly self…
oh geez louise E…get well soon i guess, so then i can tease you again with little remorse…
but was in court all morning.
Assuming you were not the defendant but as a lawyer. Good to know you prioritise legal justice over the Knicks—but just slightly which is a proper balance in my opinion given the injustices we have suffered during the Dolan era.
RJ is found money if he plays well…quik needs to be that third consistent scorer…
One afterthought regarding our picture going forward is our roster beyond the 9-man rotation of our starters plus IQ, iHart, JHart and Obi.
PG: Deuce seems pretty much plug-and-play as an emergency 10mpg backup PG. I know DRose looked cooked last game, but my guess is that he still has something in the tank that would be unlocked with some reps. So we’re good there.
SG: Fournier’s permabenching is still the most unanticipated development of this season for me. Acquiring JHart pushes him another slot down the rotation. Still, he’s a nice player to have as an emergency fill-in as he showed in his last appearance. So we’re good there too.
SF: RJ, Hart and Grimes can all play there and all seem durable so not really worried about it, but in theory it’s a smallish rotation. Fournier would be a bad fill-in. I wonder whether Jeffries could hold the fort in a pinch…but we’ll never find that out I guess.
PF: There’s Randle, then a huge dropoff to Obi, then Sims. I think this is our most vulnerable spot, but since Randle is maybe the most durable player in the league, there’s not much to worry about. But if he goes down, lord help up.
C: We just got a taste of life without Mitch. Obviously it’s huge problem if Mitch isn’t playing, and losing the recent version of iHart would be a big problem as well. Sims is fun but depending on him for anything more than 10 minutes against a good team is scary.
In summary, I like our non-rotation lineup. The only one I have any degree of confidence in as a legit replacement is Fournier, but we can definitely piece some things together as we learned when Obi, RJ, and Mitch were out for extended periods.
missy elliott tix went on sale at exactly 10am…was in the axs queue and all…had the chance to buy tix at 10:03 – all the shit was sold out already, couldn’t get 2 tickets – anywhere in the theater…
oh well, not meant to be…damn though…one tix high up towards the back, been there before…it’s okay but…dang…
ah, some stuff is showing up now…yikes, 2 tix for 4k, not happening…
but the only one I have any degree of confidence in is Fournier.
Mostly agree, but would include Sims as someone who would have confidence in, just not in the sense of slotting in as a 3rd string C because the other two are not available
Frank, great stuff. Tax and Pick wise, – we’re more than solid.
Add two All-Star Talents, three elite role players, the NYC media noise we’re destined to make in the next couple of months by going to playoffs against Donovan Mitchel (Steven A. already set this series up on first take this morning) and this squad is one stud two way away from contending next year.
Leon becomes the Godfather is he consolidates all the picks/swaps needed, + RJ, Obi & Fournier for Jalen Brown, Kawhi or PG13 this summer. Knicks would have an extended championship contending window.
Another solid Fred Katz cover of the Knicks in The Athletic.
Take-aways from those not able to access (or like Noble, in the wrong kind of court…):
Brunson is fucking fantastic (my paraphrase, and already noted in the thread!).
He will probably not win Most Improved this year (he was too good last year).
JHart will likely sign with the team going forward.
Conversations have occurred re LaVine, but conversations always occur about everyone, and there’s no sign this is for real. So relax.
We don’t have a shooting coach per se, but most teams don’t, and various assistants do that work with individual players.
And Leon Rose has not spoken to independent media on the record (not in a news conference or a one-on-one interview) since 2021. Which is a crime, but not prosecutable (so stand down, Noble).
If the shooting coach would be like our last one (Keith Smart), i prefer this way. 😛
Wait… do you actually believe this? You think Cuban is trying to win MVPs and max out Doncic’s box score stats? And not to win a ring? Mark Cuban? Mark Cuban wants a fucking MVP award above all else? He wants to open up the sports section and see Doncic atop the list of PPG leaders? Do you actually believe this, strat? This is one of the most insane thing you’ve said here. Do you actually believe this? Tell me: do you fucking actually believe this horseshit?
Wait a second. You want MORE effort from a guy who currently ranks:
2nd in points
6th in assists
9th in def. rebounds
12th in steals
3rd in FGA
3rd in FTA
7th in MPG
You want that guy to turn into a two-way player?
Holy shit do you know how to carry the torch for your flaming hot takes. Holy fucking shit, strat. KP is taking fewer shots per possession in Washington than he did in Dallas. His assisted-FGA rates are nearly identical, with a small dip in his 2PT assisted rates. Are your hot takes that important to defend that you make shit up like this?
Because Jalen Brunson is a short PG who creates off the dribble and Kristaps Porzingis is a stretch PF who has literally never initiated an offense from the logo in his life.
Here’s the only video I can find of Porzingis playing point:
What “really good player” has declined to play with Doncic? Porzingis got shipped out because he wasn’t good enough to be Robin. He’s not. He’s turned into a solid player and having a good year on a perfectly average team, but he’s not the kind of 2nd star that you need to really compete in this league.
I agree that they’ve made a bunch of bad decisions (like the Porzingis signing, and losing Brunson for nothing) but building around Doncic is not one of them. He has the play of a top-10 all-time player, if he stays healthy for another 10+ years. The goal is to do better than the ’03-’10 Cavs did for LeBron. Surrounding Doncic with the 2020s’ version of Daniel Gibson and Mo Williams ain’t gonna do it. And just like it wasn’t LeBron’s fault that the Cavs were so inept, it’s not Doncic’s fault that the Mavs haven’t been able to get the right people around him. He’s playing MVP-level ball.
God damn it, I’ve miss you, Jowles.
You know what is amazing?
How quickly the overall mood and tone of this board has changed in the last few weeks.
I’m not even saying this as the resident leader of Team Optimist as a “I told you so.” Just that it’s crazy how much its changed since the Hart trade.
Even right before that trade when we were playing well and winning some good games against teams without Mitch. There were still hold outs of people who were complaining about win now or mediocrity or incinerating picks, etc. And then the Hart trade happened and I feel like that was the last big debate on this board cause some felt like it wasn’t good to spend a first round pick like that to get him.
Then he came in here and we went from playing pretty well to amazing and the convo has just completely shifted. EVen optimists like me were more hoping we could be really good than actually believing it. But now? Its like everyone is in lock step agreement that we’re in fantastic shape and we’re one big move away from being contenders.
Can we just sit back for a moment and enjoy how AMAZING it is to feel this way? A lot could change. A quick first round exit would certainly damper things. But after 20 years of being a joke. THIS IS SO FUCKING NICE.
It sucks we managed to get pretty good in a year the top of the east is very formidable. We’d bein the mix for the 2 seed in the West.
i’ll never say i told you so – but, yeah – i told you so 😛
If someone has to tell us “i told you so”, i’d much prefer it is an optimist. 😉
Walker…Post of the day! – Love it.
Hear, hear swifty! Meanwhile, Leon Rose continues to keep his mouth shut and his cards close to his vest while the team keeps improving and the accolades keep coming. He lets the product on the floor do the talking for him, and right now it’s hard to argue with that approach.
Maybe things will go south before the season’s end and the usual wet blankets will predictably start ranting and raving when we trade out of the DAL pick at #19. But I’m enjoying the crickets for now!
“It sucks we managed to get pretty good in a year the top of the east is very formidable. We’d bein the mix for the 2 seed in the West.”
Yeah, I guess…and it probably won’t get any less formidable going forward.
9 (or more!) wins to go 😉
Happy Hour in the bar car starts in 90 minutes.
Let’s not go nuts quite yet, everyone. The move has been from “clearly purgatorial” to “maybe not purgatorial, but let’s get some more data points particularly from the playoffs.”
If — and I’m not saying it’s going to happen — but if they play like the ATL series and go out meekly in a 4/5 matchup, it’s essentially big picture back to square one. If they play way better, then we probably — but not certainly — have a different big picture conclusion.
Things are basically on autopilot awaiting the playoffs at this point. Trade deadline’s gone, everyone’s roster is set, the only thing now before the playoffs is whether there’s some big major injury somewhere. (I suppose ATL has made a coaching change, so maybe their path changes.)
I expect the Knicks to be the 5 seed, barring injury. I’ll be surprised if they aren’t. Then let me see the playoffs and get that data point(s) and there likely will be more clarity.
Has Ted Nelson come back as Jowles? If not glad to see Jowles back in game ready form; if not go away Ted
Swift, was pondering the same thing, but glad you posted it first. You deserve it!
I think it’s partly the leading coast-to-coast thing that’s been happening a lot lately. Feels so much more real and less fluky than scraping back from a big deficit and winning (or losing) by a nose thing.
Of course if we get shellacked by Boston tonight it’ll be interesting to read the takes tomorrow. Regardless, I’m on Team Upbeat for the remainder of the season.
Ted Nelson ain’t got shit on me
“Ted Nelson ain’t got shit on me”
The Ted Nelson character limit….always nice to have something named after you I guess…
Top rope kind of day for Jowles.
I do agree with E that any Leon Rose victory laps are quite premature, and I say this as someone who has openly revised many of my priors this season.
We should have higher standards than “making the playoffs” in a league where over half the teams do so, and things like passing on good prospects in the 2021 and 2022 drafts still hurt.
I think we’re decently well-positioned to make a move(s) that puts us into contention and that’s a far cry from where I was before this season, but we still have to actually, you know, do it before I’m ready to flog myself for ever doubting Leon.
Where I’ll disagree with E’s hedge-emony is that the team as currently constructed is a far cry from purgatorial, no matter what happens in the playoffs. The definition carries an pejorative undertone of being “trapped” with one’s fate being not in one’s control. In an NBA sense, that would be due to lack of assets and cap-killing deals. That doesn’t fit this team’s cap sheet and roster. There’s oodles of maneuverability, and significant potential for further internal improvement.
This is still a young team in the process of being formed. It is disingenuous (or downright trolling) to judge them based on some predetermined bar they have to leap over in the playoffs. The all-in Cavs (as well as some other teams) are getting slack because they are a young team…if they lose in the first round, are they going to be judged to be trapped in purgatory? Even though they have far less roster maneuverability than we do?
The Knicks are a work in progress. The work is progressing nicely. There really isn’t any disputing that, is there?
“We should have higher standards than “making the playoffs” in a league where over half the teams do so…”
This is misleading. Not half the teams make it to a 5 seed. Not half the teams do so with a 7th best net rating. And only 8 teams win a first round series. So getting into the top-10 with a young, stable roster and lots of maneuverability and assets still in the chamber should be acknowledged in and of itself.
“…things like passing on good prospects in the 2021 and 2022 drafts still hurt.”
Not nearly as much as dumping all-stars with assets attached would have. Nearly all of the players taken after those picks (other than the guys we actually tookl) would have had minimal impact on our current situation. Jalen Johnson, Keon Johnson, Bones Hyland, Ayo Dosomnu, etc, etc., would not have done anything to make much of a difference in our current position, either now or moving forward. No one would give up more than that CHA pick at this past deadline to acquire any one of them. If you want to harp on bad decisions, stick with Obi over Hali.
Not taking a victory lap. Just enjoying that we’re not warming our hands over a dumpster fire in February.
PS — and I still wouldn’t trade our roster for the Cavs (but I’m insane;-))
No one is taking victory laps, just reminding folks that some hot takes about Randle, Thibs, Leon, and individual transactions in the big scheme of things haven’t aged particularly well, and maybe that should give the most ardent naysayers some pause going forward.
*** maybe that should give the most ardent naysayers some pause going forward.***
I’m gonna try to ride out this period of good feelings by focusing on the Missy Elliot tickets being sold out.
wow some super passive aggression here….
here’s some food for thought… after all this amazing fortune we’ve gotten this season… we’re on pace for 46 wins… what was the consensus estimate prior to the season? about 40-44 wins if i remember?
now plenty of things have changed but how good we are hasn’t exactly… yes brunson and randle have been amazing but some others haven’t and that we’re only a couple games better than we thought we’d be is that we’re doing all this in SPITE of all those mistakes and criticisms that were absolutely warranted….
that outlook game to game… streak to streak… hasn’t really changed all that much… randle’s resurgence has made dealing for that one guy a lot more palatable…. but also we’re looking at his age 29 season and unsure which one we’ll get next season….
all this ‘vindication’ does seem rather silly… what exactly do you guys feel vindicated over? about the vibes?
um… all those guys would not be helping more either sims or mcbride…. or any of the other guys picked after? let alone jalen williams or tari eason…. why is this being talked about still… this shit is settled….
“If the Mavs played exactly the same way, with Doncic dominating the ball but instead surrounded by competent players instead of late 2010’s Knicks rejects they’d probably be fine. Doncic is not the issue with that team, nor is it “Cuban wants Doncic to win MVP.” They just have lots and lots of shitty players and have given out tons of minutes to guys who stink.”
You have it backwards (as have many Dallas fans until recently).
Cuban’s thinking has been that the way to win with a generational talent like Doncic is to play 5 out, create maximum space for him to get inside, allow him to dominate the offense, and when he gets doubled pass it out to perimeter 3 point shooters.
That’s actually a pretty darn good way to create an efficient offense, especially in the regular season.
But when you are targeting and prioritizing players (especially bigs) primarily based on their ability to space the floor, asking a player like KP to stand 5 feet past the 3 point line and not to post up mismatches or create, asking a player like Brunson that is better creating off the dribble (as we saw in the playoffs last year when Doncic was out and see again in NY this year) to do much less, you are underutilizing some quality players and leaving gaping holes in the offense and defense.
In other words, they don’t have a problem because the other players are shitty. They have shitty players because Cuban has been targeting and prioritizing spacing for Doncic over pother necessary attributes for team success and making all sorts of terrible deals.
“Shockingly Strat is engaging in a bit of revisionist history to support a narrative. Brunson was not desperate to free himself from Luka, he was willing to extend for 4/$54M! ”
Not shockingly you don’t know the entire story. The fact that he was willing to take a deal earlier says nothing about his thinking once the entire world knew he could play and he had choices.
As I said, freeing himself from Dallas and Doncic was not the only factor. Money and playing in NY with his dad was also factors. But it was reported multiple times by multiple sources that part of the decision was that he believed he was capable of doing more than he was ever going to be able to do playing next to Doncic. That was a big part of why he never really gave them much of a shot. He had an opportunity to get the money and have a much bigger role in NY.
We’ve been on a 52-win pace since we shortened the rotation.
A 46-win pace with every player under age 30 and an impressive Randle is very different than a 44-win pace featuring heavy contributions from Fournier & DRose, which is what most of us expected.
Josh Hart replacing Deuce means we’re better than our current win pace and net ratings.
With the 19th pick I’d be just fine with any of those players. Missing on all of them doesn’t yet appear catastrophic, it’s not like we missed Bane or Hali for nothing.
I’m not sure how many of the listed players gets you back a 1st right now. Bones only got back the “incinerated” value of the Charlotte pick.
Herb Jones & Jalen Johnson are at the top of my list right now (I think), but both need to figure out how to shoot.
Regardless it’s all moot as we wasted the CHA pick on Cam “Real Incineration” Reddish.
NBA 2022 Playoffs:
Won NBA Western Conference First Round (4-2) versus Utah Jazz (Series Stats)
Won NBA Western Conference Semifinals (4-3) versus Phoenix Suns (Series Stats)
Lost NBA Western Conference Finals (1-4) versus Golden State Warriors (Series Stats)
My brother in christ, Doncic led a team of Reggie Bullock, Dorian Finney-Smith, Jalen Brunson, Spencer Dinwiddie, Maxi Kleber and Dwight Powell to series wins over the Jazz (3rd in Net Rating) and Suns (1st in Net Rating) before getting bounced by the soon-to-be NBA Champion Warriors (5th in Net Rating with Curry missing 18 games).
You cannot be serious about the Doncic criticism. That team is a lottery team without Doncic.
weighing short term variance is a big part of what we do here…. but we’ve also played approximately a couple months worth of games against teams without their best players… we could go literally all day with this….
if we’re better than the sixers… which you seem to think so.. then we’ll have every chance to prove it… i’m a bit skeptical….
To understand the team construction issue in Dallas, think in terms of the way Thibs thinks and then do the opposite. lmao
Thibs would rather sacrifice a little spacing and have a player like Mitch to anchor the defense than to sacrifice defense and rebounding for extra shooting.
Cuban wanted a player like Christian Wood because he’s a big that can shoot 3s even though he doesn’t defend a lick and even though interior defense and rebounding was the issue last year.
You don’t get to complain that Doncic has no one behind him to defend the rim when he gets beat or that other bigs are killing you inside and on the boards when everyone on earth knew Dallas needed interior defense and rebounding and they for Wood. The idea that McGee was going to do that starting job was laughable and as soon as they saw the spacing they sent him to Siberia, Texas. lol
When they were trying to trade KP it was partially the injury history,
but it was also because he wasn’t hitting 3s consistently enough and they didn’t want him posting up mismatches or creating off the dribble (like he has been doing so effectively for the Wizards).
So who did bring back back as part of that?
That would Davis Bertans.
You know why?
He’s a big that can shoot 3s. That fact that he stinks at everything else and also had a terrible contract was secondary to the fact he could provide spacing for Doncic.
“So getting into the top-10 with a young, stable roster and lots of maneuverability and assets still in the chamber should be acknowledged in and of itself.”
And I’ve acknowledged it! But it can be true that Rose has made both shrewd moves and mistakes and that *as of now* it all adds up to a team that loses in the first round of the playoffs. That would mean he still has a lot of work to do.
I will repeat that I think we’re decently well-positioned for him to do that work, and that’s a major change from my POV prior to the season. But losing in the first-round of the playoffs is not an end unto itself, so I am not going to apologize for ever having doubted Leon Rose.
“Jalen Johnson, Keon Johnson, Bones Hyland, Ayo Dosomnu, etc, etc.”
Maybe not, but some of the guys you conspicuously didn’t name would make a big difference.
“You cannot be serious about the Doncic criticism. That team is a lottery team without Doncic.”
1. Have you read anything I’ve said today?
2. Do you follow Dallas basketball at all?
I’ve been criticizing the team building of Cuban and not Doncic, but as long as you brought it up imo Doncic is more flawed than popular perception. He’s not a good defender and he clearly hasn’t learned to play off the ball yet as his time short time with Irving is showing. The latter being because Cuban was essentially building teams and the offense to maximize him instead of the team result.
oh yeah – was happy that my eye caught this phrase on the page – and i smiled 🙂
just had a passioned conversation a moment ago with someone about these early mission sites out here in cali being plague sites to the indigenous population, whom were sadly not prepared for the level of pestilence that would be brought upon them…how could they ever have imagined what was to come…
not long ago visited the mission in carmel, just kept thinking – they should have never let you build here…god came as the second wave…scouts were the first wave…
ugh donnie…i bowed to sensibility…2 decent tix were at 1.2k…
not really that bad considering the absolute scarcity of a missy performance – not an awards show or festival event – her performing, hasn’t really ever happened…
the thing that turned me off – the venue, an exactly one hour and fifty minute performance, security everywhere, weird crowd…
instead i’m gonna go see george thorogood by myself, i’ll drink alone…
“Regardless it’s all moot as we wasted the CHA pick on Cam “Real Incineration” Reddish.”
This is 100% correct. Every player cited as someone we missed out on likely could have been had for a similarly protected first as the CHA pick, as Bones Hyland just demonstrated. As to the 2022 draft, I trust ptmilo’s analysis that we got back commensurate value for those picks.
Continuing to believe that this team or its prospects would have been improved in any significant way by making picks (without hindsight cherrypicking) especially when ignoring all the extremely dumb things that those same folks advocated for, will never cease to amuse me.
been trying to describe what it feels like to watch/root for barrett…since i root for anyone in a knick uniform…and finding it funny that swift above was extrapolating on his 2 good games in a row performance…
from game to game and quarter to quarter…he’s like taking psychadelics…you know you’re going on a trip…but never quite sure if its going to be a good one or a bad one…
>if we’re better than the sixers…<
I don't think the gap between us and anyone else is insurmountable, but I have no confidence in our 3 point shooting come playoff time. I think RJ is going to struggle and Randle could easily have a lot of rough nights due to his shot selection and the tougher defense.
this was never the argument…. late first rd’ers don’t carry a whole lot of value in a vaccuum… everyone here knows how much they’re worth… where we are on the win curve they are worth a lot just as someone like the pistons would value any of those highly…. they need players.. they need assets….
incinerating the pick is a wasted opportunity… just like you might miss a few hundred dollars now you could probably overcome that…. but if you’re poor you might have trouble keeping the lights on…. the pistons are poor… we are only slightly richer than them….
we lit a few hundred dollars on fire…. and you can see it on the roster… you can play whatever shell game you want but eventually giving up an early 2nd rd pick for free… trying to replace your eventual all star pf in favor of an all-nba level player and another very good starter….. giving up a first rd pick literally for nothing…. and then getting 50 cents on the dollar on another mini-incineration…. you will pay the piper eventually….
and you’re not going to give up all star level talent every time…. but we could have had haliburton… vassell .. .jalen williams… eason… and a whole lot of other names that would be helping us a lot more than obi.. mcbride or sims now….
and this is not some revisionist history where we pick the best players in hindsight either… we and i have covered all of these players at length…. and look we don’t really talk about it all that often cause there’s no need.. but if you’re going to be all like who cares it didn’t matter… no it does matter a whole lot…. any of those four players we might not even need to deal for another star….
“Maybe not, but some of the guys you conspicuously didn’t name would make a big difference.”
Like who? Santi Aldama? No one mentioned him on draft night or before this year that I can recall.
Herb Jones? I agree that taking Rokas over him was a bad move. But that had nothing to do with the 19th pick unless one is so committed to that narrative that anyone would even hypothesize that he’d be taken there. Of course, my guess is that some would have advocated even more vociferously for dumping Randle with significant sweetener, since Jones is even better than Obi, who some thought could replace Randle and improve the team.
And I post this with the usual caveat that the argument has never been about defending the moves as much as it has been about the actual long-term impact on team-building.
“Continuing to believe that this team or its prospects would have been improved in any significant way by making picks (without hindsight cherrypicking)”
I would add that Randle and Brunson are via free agency, I-Hart is free agency, J-Hart is trade, and we’ve done a very good job with non lottery draft picks (Mitch, Quick, & Grimes). So we’ve used a balanced approach to building a good young team with upside, while retaining excess draft capital. The big mistakes have been draft lottery picks or we’d be further along. Only Obi can be blamed on Rose. Even dopey ideas like Fournier and Kemba were not killers.
I think you have to build x% mistakes into any approach regardless of what it is and who the GM is. They all make big mistakes now and them. What you want to do is avoid the disasters and make a couple of big winning moves.