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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 5:07:19 PM
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New York Knicks vs Atlanta Hawks Prediction, 2/15/2023 Preview and Pick Doc’s Sports
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:46:24 PM
Josh Hart’s hot start with Knicks hit differently: ‘This is the Mecca, the air is different’ Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 2:14:21 PM
Josh Hart brings a winning mentality to the Knicks Posting and ToastingKnicks’ Josh Hart reminding Tom Thibodeau of All-Star Jimmy Butler New York Post Josh Hart’s success leads to RJ Barrett questions for Knicks AMNY
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Latest Mitchell Robinson Injury Update a Major Blow for Knicks Heavy.com
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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 12:45:00 PM
The Knicks Wall’s Danny B, ClutchPoints’ Erik Slater debate Knicks-Nets New York Post
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:59:28 AM
Knicks: RJ Barrett’s struggles have hit rock bottom Empire Sports Media
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:49:21 AM
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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:38:45 AM
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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:32:30 AM
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[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 10:00:00 AM
NBA Mock Draft: Will Victor Wembanyama be drafted by Knicks rival? Daily Knicks
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 9:33:00 AM
Nets’ Ben Simmons faces ridicule after passing up open lay up: ‘Borderline unplayable’ Fox News
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 9:24:14 AM
Knicks Land Blazers’ Damian Lillard In Bold Trade Scenario NBA Analysis Network
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 8:26:34 AM
Knicks takeaways from Monday’s 124-106 win over Nets, including Jalen Brunson’s 40-point performance Yahoo Sports
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 8:01:00 AM
30-year Orlandoversary: Magic outlast Knicks in first-ever triple-overtime game Orlando Pinstriped Post
[news.google.com] — Tuesday, February 14, 2023 7:54:00 AM
Emily Ratajkowski and Eric Andr? cuddle up at the Knicks game Page Six
76 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2023.02.15)”
Should we win tonight in Atlanta, it might just mean we’re closer to hitting our stride than many of us thought. Also, I can’t wait to see this team with Mitch back. It’s probably gonna suck for Sims, but hopefully he can still get a few minutes here and there.
“I wish there were a way to take this bet. On contract alone that’s nuts – Poetl is an expiring. Getting a first for an expiring is pretty good; you get a lot more for a player signed for four years to a team-friendly contract, like Mitch. Beyond that, Mitch is much younger and somewhat better. Easy two firsts, possibly with minimal protection.”
I agree that Mitch’s contract situation makes him more valuable, particularly the declining AAV aspect of it.
But personally, I think that Poeltl is the better player, or at least the one I’d rather have in the playoffs. He’s expanded his offensive game a bit, and now takes roughly 15% of his shots outside of 10 feet. We should consider that it wasn’t just any ol’ GM that paid that price for him. But it’s certainly fair to say that Mitch *might* bring back a better return.
“Z-man, you’re cherry picking draft picks, which is exactly what you keep accusing others of doing with the 19th pick…Sometimes you draft Walker Kessler, sometimes you draft James Wiseman.”
I agree that it’s cherrypicking to assume that they would have drafted Kessler if Mitch decided to walk. I only presented it as a possible scenario: “It seems pretty clear that we’d be no worse off if we let him go for nothing and simply drafted Walker Kessler.” However, I did tout Kessler at draft time as a great trade-down target. The larger point is that you can find Mitch analogs outside the lottery in virtually every draft. Nic Claxton is another guy I’d be perfectly happy with as our starting C and he was a 31st pick in 2019. Capela was 25th. Looney was 30th. RWIII was 27th. Zubac was 32nd. Allen was 22nd.
Which is more to say that the ability to find a reliable player for a given role late in the draft has a bearing on trade value.
“And yes, we could’ve gone 10-3….3 of our worst 4 defensive games have come during this Mitch-less period. They were all losses despite putting up ORTGs of 124, 127 & 131. (The 4th was also without Mitch but earlier in the season)…We probably don’t go 7-6 without acquiring Hart either, which changes the calculus.”
I think it’s incredibly optimistic to think we could have gone 10-3 in these last 13 games if only we had Mitch, but one thing we know for sure…we won’t go 4-10 without him, which is what was feared. And your point about Hart kind of makes my argument…that we found a reasonably effective backup plan for Mitch at half the price.
So if we actually *could* get more than two very lightly protected firsts for Mitch, I think it’s fair to wonder what we could do with that draft capital.
We have very much seen Sims’ limitations as a rim protector these last few weeks. Having Mitch back, and now being able to trust iHart if Mitch is in foul trouble, or if the lineup just needs a bit more spacing and ballhandling, is going to be so nice.
I listened this morning to Zach Lowe’s podcast with Chris Herring. Both of them were suitably skeptical about RJ’s prospects and/or fit with this team. Chris has clearly watched more of this team than Zach, because Zach still referred to RJ as a good defender, which he really hasn’t been this year. But Zach looks at JHart not only as a solid rotation player in his own right, but as someone who will hopefully light a fire under the rears of RJ, Grimes, and other young players. Basically, “play up to your potential, or this guy will eat into your minutes more and more.” Which, to me, feels very different from, “I will play Alec Burks at PG because I just don’t trust Quickley,” or various other kid-stifling moves of seasons past.
BTW I’m hoping that the Mitchophiles are correct, and that we might have gone 10-4 in these last 14 games with a healthy Mitch. We have a similar 14-game stretch after the break, including two games each vs. the Celts and the Heat, plus the Nuggets, Wolves, Blazers, Kings, Clippers and Lakers. Can we pencil in 10-4 with Mitch and JHart leading the way?
“We have very much seen Sims’ limitations as a rim protector these last few weeks.”
The dropoff from Mitch to Sims is pretty huge. Credit to Sims for plugging away out there, but yes, he will revert to break glass in case of emergency status.
“Basically, “play up to your potential, or this guy will eat into your minutes more and more.” Which, to me, feels very different from, “I will play Alec Burks at PG because I just don’t trust Quickley,” or various other kid-stifling moves of seasons past.”
Exactly. What makes it interesting is that Hart is not some insurmountable obstacle, like say a Kawhi Leonard or someone like that. He has holes in his game, and when Grimes and RJ are at their best, they are certainly competitive with Hart. Well maybe not the otherworldly 14.3 BPM Hart we’ve seen thus far, but the human version.
From where we’re sitting in the standings, tonight’s game is huge. Can we stop the upgraded Hawks? Bey adds depth to their lineup. Dejounte Murray, Clint Capella and Trey Young are difficult covers. Tonight we see how good the Knicks really are.
Mitch is perhaps the most underrated player on the Knicks. Most fans that just look at scoring numbers have no clue how dominant he is. Having that dominant rim protector and offensive board crasher is so vital to the team.
I agree. Sims is a big drop-off from Mitch, however I see a higher ceiling for him than I did previously. I see improvement in Sims since he’s started. The in-game experience he’s getting is valuable to the team.
I think we got a little lucky with Mitch being out because iHart’s nursing injury finally healed up and he started to play much better right when Mitch went down. Also, can’t discount having HART these last 2 games. Do we win both of them if he’s not here?
I love Mitch but that being said, I do see Z-Man’s larger point that if we could trade him for something good (or if he’s included in a superstar trade), then we can probably make up most of his value by finding a similar Mitch prototype. Heck, this experience Sims has gotten will be invaluable for him and maybe with continued practice and experience he can do most of what Mitch does for us (eventually).
“I love Mitch but that being said, I do see Z-Man’s larger point that if we could trade him for something good (or if he’s included in a superstar trade), then we can probably make up most of his value by finding a similar Mitch prototype.”
That’s really all I’m saying…and that we could have weathered losing Mitch for nothing with some creative GMing…although we ultimately didn’t need to worry about that because of some creative GMing.
I don’t really understand the anti-Mitch discourse. He is a 3.5 EPM player. He is our highest rated player by that stat. He is a very good player by any measure. We are not better off when he is injured. We would not be better off if we hadn’t re-signed him. We happen to have a backup who is more than serviceable at the moment so the impact of his loss has been muted somewhat. I don’t think there is much more to it than that.
It’s true you can sometimes find good big men on the cheap, although somehow a lot of teams don’t seem to have one Of course, that’s also true for every other position on the court. We drafted RJ at 3 and we have at least four players playing better than him, none of whom were drafted above 25. Our star wasn’t drafted in the first round.
In sum, I have been successfully triggered….
And i’ll add that they might respect the Knicks a lot more this time around, with the level Brunson is playing and the addition of Hart making us even better. So they might show tonight to prove a point. Let’s hope we can prove them wrong.
Steph & Lebron league dominance is finished. New era has downed out west. Just look at the top three seeds. On the eastern side, Embiid’s costar is declining quickly. Chris Middleton is a shell of his former self. Same with Jimmy Butler. The proper chess move is to be patient, develop this team and steal Jaylen Brown from Boston next summer by handing him the keys to the franchise. Just feels to me that he’s not mentally built to be a lifelong Pippen.
I’m team Mitch since day 1, and although i expected a more expanded offensive game, i think he has turned into a valuable player. Top30? Top15? Top10? Easily replaceable or not? It’s all debatable, of course. But what i’m really happy is that he’s still with us, and that he’s very productive in his role.
Top 15 players are irreplacable and I can see why we would begrudgengly include Mitch in such package. Same as Suns did with Mikal Bridges.
But lets please not act like 7 footers with elite athleticism and dawg mentality are a dime a dozen. Mitch types are super rare and his persona is awesome and easy to root for. Hence, why we all love him.
The anti-Mitch case has become comically easy to rebut. He is the team leader in net rating differential. He is the team leader in EPM. He is 3rd on the team in BPM.
I could go on, but how about this: since he went down on 1/18, our defensive rating is 120.3, good for 28th in the NBA. Before then, it was 111.9, good for 9th in the NBA. If you start counting from 11/20 when Mitch returned from his first injury, it was 111.5, good for 7th in the NBA. Turns out tales of Mitch’s replaceability are greatly exaggerated.
Now, it’s true the Knicks have hovered around .500 without him, and it’s true this has happened to my surprise. If you told me we had among the worst defenses in the NBA in his absence, I definitely wouldn’t have thought we could pull off 8-6 or 7-7.
So what happened? Well, since 1/18 we have a 120.3 offensive rating. Why? Well, since 1/18 Jalen Brunson is averaging 28.7 points and 5.9 assists with a .637 TS%.
So the plan if we let Mitch walk for nothing was “hover around .500 with one of the worst defenses in the NBA, as long as Jalen Brunson can outplay Michael Jordan for the entirety of the season.”
Man, I am so owned for suggesting that was perhaps not well thought out!
I like Mitch and am fine with what he is. My only issue going forward is that he gets banged up a lot.
You pretty much have to pencil him in to miss 15-20 games a season, and cross your fingers that he doesn’t miss much more than that. Hopefully he can be fully healthy for the playoffs.
over the course of 13 games the difference between a mitch and a 0 win share player is roughly about 1.5 wins… that’s nothing and variance in any number of areas could mask any sort of record which is why the ewing theory exists…
Just as a simple test, I think there’s about a 75% chance we win those 3 games if Mitch is healthy.
I’m taking the % of games Mitch played where the Knicks had a higher DRTG than their ORTG for that game.
For instance in the ATL game we had an ORTG of 131.4. Mitch only played 1 game where the Knicks had a DRTG over 131.4. Mitch has played 37 games not counting the Washington game (if we count that game it’s more favorable to my argument). So there’s a 1/37 chance we lose that game, or a 2.7% chance we lose.
The other games are about 10% chance to lose and 15% chance to lose.
Taking our likelihood to win, we have .97*.9*.85 that gives us about a 74% chance to win all 3 games. We have an 87% chance to win both the 97% & 90% games.
This doesn’t account for our improved chances of winning the Lakers, Clippers, or Philly game (although Philly gave us our worst DRTG game with Mitch).
Someone should check my math, and if you’re ambitious you can calculate the % chance to win any 2/3 of those games… or all 6 games.
Obviously the real world isnt quite this clean, but our ORTG/DRTG predicts about a .500 record in our Mitch-less games—basically where we’re at. Our Mitch games would predict a much better record.
Having good Ihart is a nice backup in cases Mitch gets injured which I’m sure is why the FO signed him in the first place.
But yes this teams full potential is with Mitch and he is needed to be competitive in a playoff series vs Giannis or Embiid or Bam.
I’d love to sign Noel back to the team in the offseason if he’s up to be a 3rd string C (probably not?) he’s garbage on offense but an elite defender we could use if Mitch went down for a prolonged stretch.
Between Wiseman, Duren, and Isaiah Stewart there’s no chance DET keeps him.
Sims will be useful for 6 fouls when we play Embiid though.
Yeah, i agree. And iHart, if i’m reading B-Ref’s game logs right, is not an ironman himself. But i think we’re good, between the two, one will be available and Sims can get the backup job done. Next season, maybe we’ll have a player more capable of playing C as Randle’s backup (i’m assuming Obi is going to be traded in the summer), and we’ll be even more insured against injuries.
I’m pretty sure that is the FO’s plan. We’re trying to be good, so no more “free pass” to playing time. On good teams players have to earn their playing time. And i am secretly (or not! :P) rooting for RJ to take the challenge to heart (no pun intended! LOL) and improve a lot in the remaining of the season.
We should trade mitch if we can a good offer we can just draft/sign a replacement works for like every guy on the roster.
Nerlens Noel has appeared in 39 games in the last two years.
I honestly think the anti-big man trend has gone too far. There are a lot of teams that would be better off upgrading their big men rather than pumping money into the CJ McCollumesque shot takers of the world. They’d be better served to have a good defense and find a Cam Thomas to burn through the marginal five shots.
The Cavs got good because they got Mitchell but also because they got Mobley and Allen. They have the #1 defense in the NBA. Most of the best players in the NBA are tall people and having a bunch of super athletic tall people to defend them remains a fantastic idea.
People seem to think guys like Jarret Allen or Walker Kessler or Mitch or whoever it may be grow on trees. But they don’t. Having one or two of them remains a great way to win basketball games.
Is Noel not playing much because of injury or because they have a bunch of young centers? I honestly don’t know.
And yeah, he’s just there in case Mitch goes down. Ideally hes not playing more than 30 games under any circumstance, and fewer minutes than iHart. He’s better than Sims who I’d love to keep, but if we try and go all-in then he might not be able to play well enough soon enough.
Agreed Owen the Raptors are a perfect example of underestimating size at the C position last few years.
I think Sims is fine as a 3rd string center. Not sure we need Noel.
Sims is essentially a rookie and has done fine as a starter. This has been an invaluable experience for him. He will be better next season because of it.
I’m very pro-Mitch, but having Hartenstein and Sims makes possibly including Mitch in a larger trade this offseason easier to swallow. Mitch is incredibly valuable to this team- stats be damned. But he’s not irreplaceable.
Must watch Trevor Keels highlight:
Cam Reddish report: 18 pts in 33 minutes on a fairly efficient 7-12 (4-7 from 3). One rebound, one assist, one steal.
His backup, Dr. Knox III, goes 0-1 with two fouls in 7 minutes.
Amusingly, Thybulle gets the start, 30 minutes, 1-4, but with 4 steals. Very Matisse.
Jury’s still out of course, but if this isn’t the darkness before the dawn for Barrett, can folks come up with a worse three consecutive high draft picks in recent years than Frank, Kevin, and RJ (say, single digit)? I lazily looked at a few promising suspect teams, but no, we’re winning…
If you are going to stick Thomas Bryant or Daniel Gafford or, I don’t know, Montrezl in there than fine, you probably won’t miss Mitch that much.
But I don’t think you can just take for granted finding a guy to do that.
I also think there is a pretty short list of guys in this league who are irreplaceable.
If Jayson Tatum were to go down for the rest of the year, how much would that move the Celtics’ odds? I totally think if they lost Jaylen Brown for the rest of the year they would still be the favorites in the East.
I missed a lot of the Mitch conversation, but I think there’s at least some chance a lot of our question may get answered this off season.
The T-Wolves are starting to play better and Gobert looks good in his role there. Towns has been out, but he should be returning soon. IMO, that’s still and unproven and awkward fit. If it doesn’t look good, I would not be shocked to see the T-Wolves decide to keep Gobert (the defender) and make Towns available in a trade in the off season as a way of recovering all the picks they gave up for Gobert.
That opens some questions for the Knicks who have supposedly had their eye on Towns for awhile.
1. Do you trade for Towns, get an offensive star, but give up your defensive backbone in Mitch? At that point we’d basically be all in on offense and the hell with defense because Towns does not defend.
2. What would you give up considering they probably won’t want Mitch because they have Gobert?
3. If you make that deal, what can you get for Mitch in another deal?
Cleveland picked Dion Waiters, Anthony Bennett, and Andrew Wiggins 4th, 1st, & 1st in 3 consecutive years. Dont know if you count Wiggins, but they didnt trade him until 2 months after the draft.
montrezl? z-man could quiet place aaron rodgers for a month and he wouldn’t come up with something so full of mitch hate.
“Agreed Owen the Raptors are a perfect example of underestimating size at the C position last few years.”
That makes three of us.
I was worried about the Raptors making a late run and catching us before that trade. Now I’m really worried.
If we go back to last season, when Fox was having a disappointing season, you could slot the Kings for this.
2015 #6 Willie Cauley-Stein, 2016 #13 Georgios Papagiannis (who??), 2017 #5 De’Aaron Fox, 2018 #2 Marvin Bagley (passing on Luka!?!?).
So, i’m hoping that we can say this about the Knicks next season, and RJ will be having a great year.
We’re a bad team without Mitch:
8 games w/ Mitch: +0.3 Net Rating
8 games w/o Mitch: -3.8 Net Rating
30 games w/ Mitch: +5.7 Net Rating
13 games w/o Mitch: -0.5 Net Rating
We should try to trade RJ, who stinks, instead of Mitchell Robinson, who is good.
The Wizards haven’t drafted a good player since 2013.
Don’t look back, Strat, our eyes are on the 5th seed. 😉
I’m not trolling or trying to stir anything up. I’m just pointing out how players with injury histories that delayed or capped their development can sometimes keep developing later when/if they finally get healthy for a sustained period.
KP at age 27 hitting a new peak
3p% – 37.1%
2p% – 55.5%
FT% – 84.5%
TS% – 62.3%
BPM – +3.8
On/Off – +3.9
He’s been on an efficiency peak lately.
***…is a shell of his former self. Same with Jimmy Butler.***
Jimmy Butler, the 33 year old with the career high BPM and career high WS/48 and career high offensive rating is a shell of his former self, huh?
Yeah, i’ve noticed recently that he was playing well, at least by the numbers. How is he on defense nowadays?
Either way, this has nothing to do with the Knicks having to trade him back then. We had several reasons and peaking at age 27 would be only one more. If you said to me RJ will peak at age 27 and won’t be very productive until then, i’d say “trade him as soon as you can”. We drafted him at age 19, and you can’t be patient for 8 years, that’s not what tanking means. You have to draft guys that will mature faster than that or else why tanking? They’ll be on the market before they’ll be good players.
I love you Mitch and if you read this don’t get it twisted, you are twice the player Montrezl is.
***The anti-Mitch case has become comically easy to rebut…***
I think the anti-Mitch case is perhaps comically misunderstood.
The anti-Mitch case (aka the “80% of the value for 20% of the cost” case) is ignoring the 20% of the cost element, which assumes that the 80% savings ($12,000,000 in cap space in Robinson’s case) is reallocated into a 2nd, different, player that has the modern era skills that Robinson lacks; therefore, simply subbing out Robinson with his already- rostered replacement player and running regressions to see how much worse the team is doesn’t really rebut the anti-Mitch case at all.
But, even if it the anti-Mitch case WAS just that any cheap tall dude can do what Robinson does, I still think your methodology would be poor, as you seem to be giving Robinson credit for holding the Jokic-less Nuggets and the Allen-less Cavs and the Embiid-less (and Harden-less) Sixers and the Lillard-less Blazers and the Booker-less Suns etc to low point totals while punishing his replacement players for playing against full-strength teams.
Mitch reminds me alot of Tyson Chandler, very good players who are super valuable. But as a Knicks fan who grew up watching Patrick Ewing its kinda tough to go crazy with Mitch praise when you consider his offensive game or basically lack there of.
We added Tyson, fixed our defense, and had our best season in memory. I think Tyson is a great comp and a great guy to be comped too.
Mitch cost ~$3M in cap space this offseason. You literally can’t sign an NBA player for 20% of that price.
you could make the argument that every position is like that…. Mitch isn’t Embiid or Jokic or Giannis or Davis and so there’s a large group of centers that are in the good but low usage and limited group… you could say that about a lot of other positions also…. and at 15mm he’s really no different than any other above average guy at his position….
and i bet you a lot of these people who are anti-mitch will somehow talk themselves into josh hart at 18-20mm aav and he’s relatively worse at his position than mitch is….
if you’ve ever played auction style fantasy… drafting for biggest value can often be a trap because you’ll start passing up all the best players and be left having to overpay mediocre players at the end…
so yes value on contracts is important but you need talent and center is one of those positions you can pay about market rate and have a big impact on your defense so it winds up being a relatively good deal…. especially when you other investments being relatively poor on that end as well … not even accounting for difficulty in replacing a 2.5 bpm player for 15mm in a vacuum is not some easy feat….
As a quick note, Mitch didn’t play in the Denver game.
And without Mitch they played:
– a Jokic-less Denver
– a KD-less Nets
– a KD & Kyrie-less Nets
– a Gobert-less MIN
– a Horford & Timelord-less BOS
Players get hurt, even if there was a clumped up short stretch that’s more memorable.
Even if you think Mitch isn’t worth it, the defense has been near league bottom without him. Sims & Hartenstein aren’t getting it done regardless of your opinion on Mitch.
>Yeah, i’ve noticed recently that he was playing well, at least by the numbers. How is he on defense nowadays?<
I don't see many Wizards games, but from what I did see I'd say he doesn't move as well as he did in NY, but he's moving better than he did with Dallas when he was recovering from surgery. Some of the slow down may be the extra weight and some may be a small loss in athleticism from multiple serious surgeries.
I know the coach was quoted saying he's been pleasantly surprised at how well he's been moving and playing on defense. So I guess they were expecting the Dallas version and got a healthier version.
“so yes value on contracts is important but you need talent and center is one of those positions you can pay about market rate and have a big impact on your defense so it winds up being a relatively good deal…. especially when you other investments being relatively poor on that end as well ”
IMO, you more or less HAVE to HAVE either very good perimeter defenders or a very good defensive C and rim protector. Naturally, it’s best to have both, but typically you are going to have some holes somewhere. We don’t have much perimeter defense. So I think a player like Mitch is pretty critical for us or the defense falls apart. But let’s take the Nets for example. They just added a few very good perimeter defenders. They could probably get away with just an average defender at C if he brought better offense to the table and still have a decent defense.
***As a quick note, Mitch didn’t play in the Denver game.***
Yes, but TNFH still gave Mitch the credit for that, as his defensive comparison was simply pre-1/18 vs post 1/18.
“Yes, but TNFH still gave Mitch the credit for that, as his defensive comparison was simply pre-1/18 vs post 1/18.”
I also posted the numbers from when Mitch got back on 11/20 through 1/16, and they were better than the numbers from the beginning of the season through 1/16.
Also, there was no repurposing Mitch’s salary. We signed him using Bird Rights when we were already over the cap, and that was before we extended RJ. We’re over the cap for the foreseeable future. The question was do you want Mitch on his current contract, or do you think we are straight up better off without him on that contract with one extra roster spot?
It has been definitively settled, I think!
AMC Networks has found its new CEO: Kristin Dolan, the wife of James Dolan.“
Great family business.
Next stop for Kristin: start a blues band! 😀
“The question was do you want Mitch on his current contract, or do you think we are straight up better off without him on that contract with one extra roster spot?”
There was a lot of cap and roster maneuvering that was possible in the event that Mitch wasn’t signed. There is also the fact that he could be traded now for incoming salary and picks. There is also the fact that if you were over the cap without Mitch, you could have used draft picks to both replace him and unload salary. Boiling it down to a simple choice is disingenuous.
That said, I agree (and have consistently agreed) that none of these things were as good in a vacuum as retaining Mitch for the contract he signed for. But I have also consistently felt that the Mitch hive has inflated his value well beyond the value he actually provides. These last 13 games have done nothing to support the myth that Mitch is some cheat code, or that he’s our best player, most valuable player, etc. Nor am I convinced that trading him for the multiple firsts EB suggests he’d bring back wouldn’t be better for the team in the long run (although I don’t think he’d bring back that much.)
That doesn’t make me anti-Mitch. I’m just not head-over-heels about him like some others here.
“These last 13 games have done nothing to support the myth that Mitch is some cheat code”
They have provided some limited support for the myth that he helps our defense. Possibly.
We should be more hyped and excited.
Tonight we put our foot down on neck of the team right behind us and go level with the two teams ahead of us on the standings.
Go NY, Go NY, Go…
“They have provided some limited support for the myth that he helps our defense. Possibly.”
If you can refer me to the post where someone said that Mitch doesn’t help our defense, I’d love to read it.
I know it’s not the end of the world if we lose tonight, but it would be really freakin annoying. I LOATHE the Trae Young Hawks.
I might be totatlly off but isnt most of the Trae Young hate because he looks weird. Like he was hated before our playoffs series against him and I’m pretty sure it was just his looks.
I dislike Murray much more because of his antics on the court
Trae has had his way with us and has relished in being the villain at MSG. It’s all theatrics, he’s not a bad guy or anything, but he plays the role well and so I hate him in that sense.
I’d love to see Josh Hart shake Dejounte up a bit and rattle his cage.
“I’m pretty sure it was just his looks.”
speaking of that…i was watching their game the other night and it looks like he joined hair club for men or whatever the company is that helps follicly challenged folks…
***there was no repurposing Mitch’s salary***
I don’t think there were any “Anti-Mitch” people arguing that the Knicks should let him walk last summer because he wasn’t worth the roster spot. But the legitimacy of trading his $17,000,000 contract for a similarly priced wing and then replacing his production with a cheap vet or a 2nd round pick hasn’t been legitimately settled, I don’t think.
Robinson can be traded straight for OG Anunoby, their salaries are a perfect match. Would you turn down that trade if Masai offered it to you? What about Dejounte Murray? Lauri Markkanen? Norm Powell? Personally, I’d prefer having these modern players on my team and would try to approximate what Mitch does with the cap hold on the roster spot. But I’m not saying it’s comically obvious to do that or anything. Just that the issue’s not definitively settled yet.
That’s a great post Donnie.
I would rather have Mitch than OG or Powell or Murray. I would rather have Markannen.
I guess the real issue I am having is with the “comically easy” part of your rebuttal, as I don’t think it’s as easy as you do, and I don’t think it’s as comical as you do either. Comical implies funny, and there’s simply nothing very funny about listing a bunch of numbers. Unless, of course, somebody asks why 6 is afraid of 7. Then listing numbers can be kind of funny. But that’s a rare situation.
I like Mitch plenty… but the main problem still is that he can’t stay on the floor. Suiting up is still kind of a pre-requisite if you’re going to cite BPM or whatever.
And I suppose he’s gotten better at avoiding foul trouble but I still feel like he has too many games where he either throws in a stinker or can’t stay out there.
He’s 24 and on a good contract. He probably has good value in a trade, so at the end of the day, it’s just a function of what we might get back. In the abstract, I’d prefer not to trade him but you’ve got to give to get and all…
FWIW I’m very excited to see this team at full strength. And looking forward to tonight’s game – would be a terrific road win if they can pull it off.
I actually enjoy Trae Young – I appreciate a good villain – but can’t stand Dejounte Murray. Saw the Knicks play the Spurs in SA last year and he was constantly berating one of his teammates in a visibly nasty manner. Seemed like a miserable fucker and I think he’s overrated, and yes, I’m basing that on a sample size of almost nothing so YMMV. But hey, the Hawks didn’t get better after the acquisition, did they?
I didn’t say it was comically easy. That was TNFH. I was more or less agreeing with you upthread.
I think for 17 million you could try to fill that gap and probably recoup a decent part of his value (if we had that money to spend – there seems to be disagreement on that point.)
And if you got OG or Markannen for him you might not notice a huge difference or you might be better (although I am not a huge OG guy)
But I do think the argument that our record in his absence is indicative of something significant about his value isn’t a very strong one.
Fuck the Hawks
You eat one little number and people bring it up the rest of your life. Must suck to be 7. Move on, already!
P.S. fuck the Hawks
Recently I listened to a Windhorst’s podcast about Dejounte and discovered things I didn’t know.
I’m not a big fan but he’s an interesting dude.
I hate (in a sport sense) Trae Young.
It’s funny in the same way that I find it funny when Kyrie Irving asks “But how do we know the Earth isn’t flat?”
As in, not funny?
Mitch is funny, does that count?