2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks @ the Hornets

The Knicks head to Charlotte to take on the sub-.500 Charlotte Hornets to hopefully get things back on track.

Hopefully Kevin Knox gets some burn to see him match up against Miles Bridges, who was taken a few picks after Knox, just for the lulz. Maybe some three on three?

Nerlens Noels is out, so that’s a shame. The Knicks really need to get this one.

HOW’S 56 WINS LOOKING? Not awesome at the moment, but there’s still time!

As part of our all-poll content…

Should the Knicks try to target Miles Bridges as a sign and trade this offseason?

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Let’s go, Knicks!

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306 thoughts to “2021-22 Game Thread: Knicks @ the Hornets”

  1. Time for another hard-fought road win!

    I voted Yes. Why not? Would he be redundant with RJ?

  2. But this year I have an infant, so I’m trial-running League Pass while I lie on the floor with her for hours at a time in the evening

    awwwwww this made my day daddy donnie…wishing you and the family all health and happiness…

    have any of the older kids started having their own kids – can we call you granddaddy donnie yet?

  3. I love Clyde’s look tonight. Imagine being a great player, a terrific game announcer, that beloved in NY, and looking that fly. lmao

    I wish all you guys could have seen him and those Knicks play the game of basketball.

  4. Voted no. I think we have other holes to fill first. A PG not old, broken or bad, would be nice to have.

  5. Lots of echo effects in the Charlotte player intros La Melo BallBallBallBall…

    Their female host is a serious fox. Ashely something…

  6. The Knicks should give us all free tickets for providing Kemba with such good bulletin board material

  7. Their female host is a serious fox. Ashely something…

    michael jordan don’t play when it comes to that kind of stuff…they’ve had the most attractive cheer squad in the league for a while now…

  8. Surprise surprise, ball movement, no iso, a little bit of defense and we’re up…

    Basketball isn’t rocket science…

  9. Someone please warn Noel and Mitch that they already lead the league in injuries per minute, no need to extend the lead

  10. Taj and Burks blew two easy ones
    but Decoy and Pass Randle is way better for the team than Jumelo Rantony…

  11. With the constant injuries who will finish with most minutes played at C by season’s end (after the immortal Taj):
    Noel?
    Mitch?
    Jericho?
    Obi?

  12. This is going too well, which might mean Silky is in the stands, maybe behind the Knicks bench :)

  13. You can sorta see why Charlotte is last in the NBA in points allowed

    And I know there’s a lot of love on this site for LaMelo, but his defense is awful.

  14. I don’t want to jinx it but Obi’s play sure looks like the result of legitimate offseason improvement rather than small sample size fun.

    After the chatter of the last few days this is a great fuck you game from Kemba.

  15. What’s up with that Charlotte pick that we might own again?

    Got to be something better than in the middle
    But me and Cinderella
    We put it all together
    We can drive it home

  16. ptmilo:
    What’s up with that Charlotte pick that we might own again?

    Got to be something better than in the middle
    But me and Cinderella
    We put it all together
    We can drive it home

    Thanks!

  17. ptmilo:
    What’s up with that Charlotte pick that we might own again?

    Got to be something better than in the middle
    But me and Cinderella
    We put it all together
    We can drive it home

    Ooh Wallflowers reference, love it!

  18. Ooh Wallflowers reference, love it!

    for the babies that was a genx joke bc when that song came out at least half of the bar would sing “the incinerator” instead of me and cinderella

  19. we really need one of those rj games where he sleeps through the first half then come out like alex english in the 3rd

  20. Randle back to his ugly ISO self, shot 2-7 in 7 minutes with 0 assists.
    Thibs really needs to talk with the guy.

    Fournier went back to out of rhythm/invisible,
    Kemba came back to earth,
    Mitch can’t grip a ball
    and Barrett is a walking disaster.

    Bench Mob please!

  21. This game is far from over. The only reason we are up is that Kemba came out juiced for tonight’s game against his former team and Charlotte is throwing up a lot of bricks. I doubt both will be true in the second half. At least the defense was better.

  22. Charlotte with only 17 3PTAs. I’ll take that as a win considering where the Knicks were these last few games.

  23. Depressing start of the quarter…
    What the fuck they do in the locker room to come back so flat every time?

  24. I’ll say it again. Thibs needs to run the bench out there at the start of every 3rd quarter.

  25. Max:
    Depressing start of the quarter…
    What the fuck they do in the locker room to come back so flat every time?

    Taking hits on the bing bong?

  26. Fournier is invisible out there.

    I hope that Thibs sits the starters after this timeout but I doubt that he will.

  27. Hayward can still play, but RJ being burned repeatedly by him is unbelievable. All NBA D team for RJ, for sure…

  28. Is it too soon to stop pretending that we’re rooting for a good basketball team this season?

  29. When the momentum drops that fast you gotta shake it up. Get the fucking bench mob in there to bring some energy! WTF is Thibs waiting for?

  30. Max:
    And still he’s leaving them all in! This is INSANE

    9 minutes into the quarter and no changes. Unbelievable.

  31. It’s really tough to evaluate this team because the Knicks look both amazing and awful in the same game like I’ve never seen before.

  32. Stubborn coach and players. You know some nights bench mob won’t have it either … we’re not in a good way …

  33. Against the Bucks it was the same, the team getting into a huge hole and he didn’t even took a timeout. This time, only a timeout but no substitution?

  34. This quarter is one of the most passive coaching job I’ve ever seen.

    He watched for ten minutes while they were slaughtered and the game was nearly lost.

  35. Max:
    This quarter is one of the most passive coaching job I’ve ever seen.
    He watched for ten minutes while they were slaughtered and the game was nearly lost.

    He did exactly the same against the Bucks

  36. Thibs should start the bench in the second half to send the starters a message next game.

  37. Should we extend Quickly? :-)

    Stetting aside talent level and fit, the bench simply plays with way more energy. They play like the entire Knicks team played last year.

  38. He did exactly the same against the Bucks

    True, but with the Bucks we’re already down,
    tonight we were up 9 and he stood as a statue while we go down 11, the game’s shift was even more stark.

    The bench mob is a playoffs team…

  39. We should give the reserves a break for a minute. Put Jericho, Deuce, Grimes, Knox & new Luka in

  40. We should give the reserves a break for a minute. Put Jericho, Deuce, Grimes, Knox & new Luka in

    good thinking

  41. It’s very cool that there’s a lot of Knicks fans, and that the arena is fired up. Now, let’s get the win.

  42. The ball movement (and total absence of dribble penetration) that led to the Quickley rimmed 3 looked a lot like a bad D1 team.

  43. Bench mob played last 3 mins of 3rd, and first 9
    mins of the fourth without a break. They got us back in it, and they were gassed. They did _their_ job, At some point Thibs had to give them a break and bring in starters to do _their_ job. He just waited too long in the third to do _his_ job and Randle and RJ have clearly lost all confidence. What a mess.

  44. to me…yanking toppin for Randle was some egregious bullshit from thibs…maybe it doesn’t matter but obi has passion…Randle is a zombie right now…barrett and the French guy too

  45. pepper:
    to me…yanking toppin for Randle was some egregious bullshit from thibs…maybe it doesn’t matter but obi has passion…Randle is a zombie right now…barrett and the French guy too

    When can frenchie go on block … dec 15?

  46. BingBongHits:
    Bench mob played last 3 mins of 3rd, and first 9
    mins of the fourth without a break. They got us back in it, and they were gassed. They did _their_ job,At some point Thibs had to give them a break and bring in starters to do _their_ job. He just waited too long in the third to do _his_ job and Randle and RJ have clearly lost all confidence. What a mess.

    Sorry, Taj and Rose looked a bit gassed. Obi played 16 minutes. At his age I’d play 2 hours of pickup with out many breaks.

  47. DRed:
    this one is on Thibs, RJ and Julius

    Absolutely. This must be the worst game in Thibs’ career.

    Randle has clearly stated that we must not win without him being the star (ghosts of Carmelo’s behavior during Lin mania). We were up 16 but he was scoreless and he can’t accept that.

    Barrett was an unmitigated disaster on both sides of the ball.

  48. @statmuse
    ·
    1m
    The Knicks starting five (Kemba/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson) have played the most minutes this season.

    They are -78 in those minutes, the worst by any 5-man lineup.

    That lineup currently has the worst defensive rating in NBA history.

  49. DRed:
    @statmuse
    ·
    1m
    The Knicks starting five (Kemba/Fournier/Barrett/Randle/Robinson) have played the most minutes this season.

    They are -78 in those minutes, the worst by any 5-man lineup.

    That lineup currently has the worst defensive rating in NBA history.

    In NBA history? Now that’s something to be proud of.

  50. DRed: That lineup currently has the worst defensive rating in NBA history.

    Oh man, that changes all… i wasn’t aware we were witnessing history! :P

  51. Burks has a great advantage, he rarely plays with Randle,
    tonight in the 4th he had to do it and he ended up pissed.

    Fournier never get pissed, he simply disappear…

  52. I don’t know what to say about this team, we just look bad. It’s still really early and there’s another 70 games still to play but right now we look like we’re going nowhere. And why does Randle look so checked out?

  53. Unless Toppin was gassed, he should have remained in. He was playing with passion and being productive in multiple ways. Randle was practically unwatchable.

    I know Kemba had a good overall night on offense, but unless Rose was hurt he should have closed. He’s the steadier better player down the stretch under pressure.

    I’m not sure what the story is with RJ. I don’t mind him having a rough couple of nights shooting, but he doesn’t look good out there on either side. He’s not playing with energy.

    Fournier looks more like the loser from Orlando than the emerging pro from team France.

    Something has to change. think our offseason moves have backfired. I’m also not sure I can handle 4 years of Randle. I’m just now fully recovering from Melo.

  54. Randle needs a post up game. If he’s not hitting jump shots he’s useless. His lackadaisical and overconfident approach on both offense and defense is becoming a problem. RJB just awful defense tonight. The bench clearly tries harder and move the ball — it’s super obvious. Once Rose got injured I knew the continuity would be ruined.

  55. I had to turn off that over-browed neanderthal’s post-game bullshit as he was going on about how you can’t close out a game with your bench because, and they only look good because they play against other second units, both of which we now know are lies. Lies.

  56. Fournier has also been a waste of space … He’s acting like the fifth option not the 2nd or 3rd

  57. well..on the positive side…obi and iq continue to improve…we need a few sprained ankles in the starting backourt to get deuce and grimes in there and we can see a vision to the future (and rj pulls his head out of his ass would be good…he needs a pep talk from DJ Phan)…

  58. Fournier has developed a tendency where he is constantly passing up open threes, hesitating until the close and then driving and often losing the ball or throwing it away. I’m sure if he flung tons of missed threes up there I’d be just as annoyed, but what he’s doing now is just as bad.

  59. Randle on balance has been pretty good,-not worth the money-but whatever. RJ has sucked this year, and him, Kemba and Fournier are a disaster on defense right now.

  60. Raven:
    Fournier has developed a tendency where he is constantly passing up open threes, hesitating until the close and then driving and often losing the ball or throwing it away. I’m sure if he flung tons of missed threes up there I’d be just as annoyed, but what he’s doing now is just as bad.

    oui…c’est incroyable…

  61. Is there a chance we can trade Randle and something for Simmons?
    Simmons is a whiny loser but 4 years of Jumelo Ranthony would be too much to endure…

  62. Last year after 13 games Knicks were on a 5 game losing streak with a 5-8 record. They turned it around and I think with these 3 home games in a row this team will do the same and could very easily be 10-6 before going back to Chicago next Saturday.

    No need to panic yet but lose one of these next 3 games at home then it’s time to panic a bit.

  63. RJ needs to get his shit together. This is his 3rd NBA season, no more “well, he’s only 20”

  64. Raven:
    I had to turn off that over-browed neanderthal’s post-game bullshit as he was going on about how you can’t close out a game with your bench because, and they only look good because they play against other second units, both of which we now know are lies. Lies.

    LOL!! And all the while I was thinking “Exactly! That’s what I was saying. That’ll show Raven!”

  65. Poor Thibs is saying all the right things, alas in the last few games they’re always the same…

    I feel for him, someone isn’t listening.

  66. I think the evidence is accumulating we’ve gone backwards on a net basis with Fournier and Kemba. There was way more passion, energy, and chemistry with Bullock and Nerlens on the floor. Young Kemba would have been a great addition, but on this team at his age, and with his knee, it’s not.

    Mitch is hurt so often it’s hard to tell how much is injuries and how much is the extra weight, but he’s not the same guy. Also, no one on the team has any chemistry with Mitch on the alley oop. That’s his only weapon besides OREBs. Without that he’s not even a good decoy on offense .

    I’m not sure how to fix this. Leon Rose and Thibs are going to have to earn their money.

  67. Max,

    I would not be opposed to trading Randle, but IMO the chances of that happening are zero. He’s ours for at least another year or two, but probably for the entire contract. The good version of him is very good, but he’s got a low basketball IQ and a little “dog” and “loser” in him. I’m 100% sure you can’t win a championship with him as the #1 option, but I’m not even sure I want him being a critical piece. He makes too many dumb mistakes that seem more likely to occur under pressure.

  68. Let’s face it, our Deeefense sucks!: He makes too many dumb mistakes

    It’s the unforced errors across the board that drive me nuts. 19 turnovers. I highlighted Fournier, but it’s all the starters. At one point in the third they showed the team shot chart. Hornets were 4-5. Knicks were 0-1.

  69. Randle hasn’t been good, but he’s not the problem.

    Fournier, Kemba, & RJ are the problem. They have one amazing game (quarter) and follow it up with 4 godawful games.

    Also, all 5 starters suck at defense right now.

  70. BigBlueAL:
    Last year after 13 games Knicks were on a 5 game losing streak with a 5-8 record.They turned it around and I think with these 3 home games in a row this team will do the same and could very easily be 10-6 before going back to Chicago next Saturday.

    No need to panic yet but lose one of these next 3 games at home then it’s time to panic a bit.

    since your a yankee fan…i’ll quote yogi…”the future ain’t what it used to be”…

  71. Well when life sucks, it’s good to turn to the Mavs boxscore for some comic relief. Frank is finally being outplayed by Luka, but there’s a strong argument he’s outplaying Timmy junior.

  72. Leon Rose’s off-season was predicated on the idea that just about everybody would be able to repeat their 2020-2021 seasons or improve on them. That is not looking like a great bet.

    Hiring agents to be GMs is sketchy. There was some real “in the box” thinking that went into putting this year’s Knicks together.

    Give me a quant any day.

  73. Max,

    I would not be opposed to trading Randle, but IMO the chances of that happening are zero. He’s ours for at least another year or two, but probably for the entire contract. The good version of him is very good, but he’s got a low basketball IQ and a little “dog” and “loser” in him.I’m 100% sure you can’t win a championship with him as the #1 option, but I’m not even sure I want him being a critical piece.He makes too many dumb mistakes that seem more likely to occur under pressure.

    I mostly agree Strat,
    I don’t know if we will ever trade him or the FO will ever think about it.
    But Thibs and the coaches need to talk to him and try to make him buy on team-based philosophy.

  74. Randle hasn’t been good, but he’s not the problem.

    Fournier, Kemba, & RJ are the problem. They have one amazing game (quarter) and follow it up with 4 godawful games.

    Also, all 5 starters suck at defense right now.

    I’m not sold on this, not tonight where the defense more or less worked and the starters’ offense went MIA.
    The contrast between the “2-Randles” was so stark it was like if we did trade him for a different player after the first quarter.
    Numbers tomorrow ;-)

  75. The Bench unit works great but its far more important to get the starters going. Maybe trying out Fournier for Burks to see if that can get something going.

  76. Maybe we should’ve signed Oubre at an AAV of 12 mil at age 26 instead of Fournier for 19 mil at age 29? Just a thought. Or hell, maybe someone even better?

  77. We could’ve signed Schröder or traded for Rubio — both are playing much better than our current point guards. Rose and the FO have a lot to prove this year.

  78. Fournier was a good signing at the time I would say. We needed someone to take some offensive pressure off Randle after the playoffs and didnt know Kemba would be available

  79. Looking back at our offseason, we probably should have resigned Bullock instead of signing Fournier, overpaid for Lonzo instead of Kemba, and traded Julius at peak value. The first two moves look kind of obvious now but moving Julius would have taken real balls.

  80. Randle has been both our best offensive player and an offense killer. Things just stagnate when he’s in there. It’s very Melo-like.

    The pace was great through most of the 4th Q. Fast breaks, dribble penetration, etc. Then Randle comes back in and the ball just stops. Either he’s walking it up court or we’re waiting 10 seconds for him to post up 20 feet from the basket. Nobody cuts. At best they swirl around the perimeter waiting for a kickout.

    Individually he’s still putting up decent numbers. He just sucks out the energy.

  81. Raven: Alright, TeaseMan. I’ll bite. How.

    I cound not possibly have much patience with “the worst defensive starting 5 in NBA history.” Kemba simply cannot be in the starting lineup, if on the court at all. Don’t let yesterday’s hot start fool you. He had what I’d call a Jimmer Fredette game. In the 2nd half, we gave up that lead in a blink of an eye.

    The easiest fix would be to replace both Kemba and Fournier in the starting lineup. Personaly, I’d try running McBride out there. Deuce could not possibly be a worse player overall than Elfrid was, and that seemed to work last year. I’d probably flip-flop Burks and Fournier next. This would take some defensive pressure off of RJ and Fournier could be the Burks of the 2nd unit.

    Alternatively, I’d at least flip Kemba and Fournier with Rose and IQ. And when Mitch comes back, I’d flip-flop Noel and Mitch in the starting lineup to see what worked best.

    I would relegate Kemba to “situational” right next to Taj. Clearly Thibs can’t/won’t do that until he can convince management that Kemba is costing the team game after game. But right now, Kemba is an overpaid vet’s minimum flyer kind of player. Maybe he builds on what he did in the first half last night, but I doubt it.

    Another solution would be to play Kemba 40 minutes a night until the inevitable chronic soreness builds up to the point that you can gracefully bench him (or he miraculously rejuvinates himself!)

    So it’s an easy fix, alas, one that has zero chance of being implemented.

  82. swiftandabundant:
    We were 5-1 now we’re 7-6. Ya need to cool it with the hot takes. If were 8-12 then we can start to panic.

    That 7-6 is a house of cards. We won 2 games by surviving opposing last possessions, and played the Sixers and Bucks without their best players. I’m not panicking about Randle or RJ, but even if they start heating up, the starting lineup is not going to win us games. Kemba is shot, and we have a C that does nothing outside the restricted area. That’s a problem you would have to be blind not to see.

  83. BTW, I had asked how many teams have worse starting C’s than Mitch (statistically, not potential-wise) and no one responded. Let me give you a hint, you won’t need all five fingers on one hand to count them.

  84. Both RJ Barrett and Evan Fournier would be better players if they weren’t saddled with Randle. RJ’s never going to reach his potential with Randle around. The team’s going nowhere with Randle as the #1 and self-proclaimed “leader of this team.”

    Outside of trading him, which they should do, I don’t see any way to significantly reduce his role.

  85. BTW, I had asked how many teams have worse starting C’s than Mitch (statistically, not potential-wise) and no one responded. Let me give you a hint, you won’t need all five fingers on one hand to count them.

    Sorry Z-Man I missed the question…

    I’m reasonably sure on Toronto (even if Birch killed us), Charlotte, Detroit and OKC,
    plus MEM (even if Adams is in steep decline) and SA are really close,
    then it depends if you consider Green and Davis the starting centers for Warriors and Lakers instead of Looney and DAJ.

    In some cases it depends on personal taste, for instance I like Claxton (not a starter), both Gafford and a healthy Thomas Bryant (both criminally underrated) or old-style guys like Valanciunas and Nurkic more.

    But yesterday he wasn’t the problem, he had a decent if inconstant game.

  86. If the problem is Mitch can’t score anywhere but the rim replacing him with Nerlens Noel- who doesn’t score anywhere but at the rim-does not solve that problem. You have to replace Mitch with Obi or play Randle at the 5 to solve that problem.

    Our starting forwards scored 12 points on 24 shots while their counterparts scored 46 on 34.

  87. It’s funny looking at the box score the bench didn’t even play very well last night. Taj had 3 points, 4 turnovers and 5 fouls, Obi (who I though looked great) was 3-9, etc, they just played less poorly than RJ and Randle.

  88. Fournier looks like a 2nd unit player. I’d also start Burks over him. His weak defense wouldn’t be as exposed there.

  89. Fournier IS a bench player (and a very good one); signing him with the idea he would be the starting 2 guard was a strategic fail.

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