[FOXsports] Analysis: It’s Knicks-Nets in Big Apple free agency battle (Thursday, June 27, 2019 4:47:23 PM)
Analysis: It’s Knicks vs. Nets in Big Apple free agency battle
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 5:02:14 PM)
Following up on recent reports that have linked the team to Julius Randle and Bobby Portis, Ian Begley of SNY.tv confirms that the Knicks will have “strong interest” in those young bigs if they can’t land their top free agent targets. However, as we’ve heard repeatedly in recent days, New York prefers not to offer […]
(Friday, June 28, 2019 12:50:32 AM)
The Knicks and Nets cut, slashed, saved like Scrooge. Both amassed an alarming array of defeats. But all was done to chase other-worldly free-agent stars. That was in 2010 when free-agency excitement mesmerized New York. LeBron James, after all, was on the market. “He dominated the whole thing,” said Donnie Walsh, a Pacers adviser now…
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 5:42:35 PM)
While the Nets and Knicks have tantalized Kevin Durant, neither franchise can offer him that golden year — a fifth season paying $50 million. It’s the one carrot that keeps the Warriors in play as Durant weighs his options with free agency beginning Sunday night. With Durant coming off Achilles tendon surgery, one NBA executive…
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 11:42:26 AM)
Rehabbing Damyean Dotson, who finished the season as the Knicks’ starting shooting guard, believes the club will be fine even without a big free-agent splash. If the Knicks sign Kevin Durant, he won’t be playing next season anyway because of his torn Achilles. Dotson, who underwent shoulder surgery in mid-May, made big strides in his…
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 8:02:03 AM)
Point guard Kemba Walker, a native New Yorker, could give the Knicks his first assist. If Walker flees Charlotte for Boston, there are reports the Celtics could renounce the rights to backup point guard Terry Rozier, who has long been an apple of Knicks GM Scott Perry’s eye. In that scenario, Rozier would be an…
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 8:11:58 PM)
News broke on Wednesday that the Knicks were contemplating “extending a considerable one-year offer” to free agent DeMarcus Cousins this summer. But would even a one-year offer at a high price for the six-time All-Star be worth it for New York?
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 2:55:24 PM)
Not only did the Knicks miss out on landing Anthony Davis, but his trade with the Lakers could potentially make New York miss out on a top free agent.
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 1:36:01 PM)
With four days to go before free agency, members of the Knicks organization still believe they have a chance to sign their top targets: Kevin Durant, Kawhi Leonard and Kyrie Irving.
(Thursday, June 27, 2019 8:49:13 AM)
The 28-year-old Cousins signed a one-year deal with the Warriors last offseason that paid him $5.337 million.
163 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.06.28)”
I had a dream/nightmare last night that we came out of free agency with Cousins, Portis, and Mudiay.
The worst thing about it when I woke up is that this is actually not an impossible outcome.
Yeah, between the two of them, the lack of QO for Mudiay seemed a lot less likely to matter than the lack of QO for Kornet.
This is weird, but it suddenly occurred to me the Lakers could make Kornet an offer. They just need bodies and he wouldn’t be an awful pick up for them.
The good thing there is that they can’t offer him anything more than the minimum once they’ve spent their max slot on someone big. The Knicks still maintain Kornet’s Early Bird Rights, so they can afford to go over the cap to give him up to the MLE, which gives them some real leverage with re-signing him (even after rejecting the QO).
I think there’s some logic in simply adding the asset and then standing pat/hopefully taking on salary dumps. We definitely shouldn’t sign any sub-optimal contracts just because we feel like the signing of Russell/Brogdon has officially ushered in “win now” mode. The team would still be very bad in all likelihood, and with the new lottery odds we wouldn’t be out of the running for a good pick. The question is do you think Russell or Brogdon is worth more as an asset than they lose you in ping pong balls? It’s not clear, but I lean yes due to the new odds.
I betcha we see at least a few more. I don’t think Michael Jordan wants to pay big money for a god awful team, so it wouldn’t surprise me if Biyombo and/or Batum are in play (the latter would be interesting if the front office is insistent on only getting guys who could contribute). OKC can get below the apron, and save nearly $30M (!) just by shedding Roberson. If the Wolves and Suns have D’Lo ambitions, as reported, they’ve got a lot of salary cap work to do. If Pat Riley wants to do anything at all, he’s got a lot of work to do too.
That is definitely a good thing. Kornet was better than I expected last season, and he has value. Your comment shows what trouble the Lakers are in filling out their roster. If guys like Kornet are priced over what the Lakers can offer for any given player and they have nothing left to trade, it’s going to be hard for them to find talent
I imagine that that is why the Lakers are going so hard after Russell, themselves. Since he’ll cost “only” $27 million (or is it even less?), then they will still have $5 million plus the room exception to fill out the rest of their roster before even getting into vet minimum guys.
Russell
Room exception/$5 million free agent (possibly JR Smith on the vet minimum)
Lebron
Kuzma
Davis
Room exception/$5 million free agent
Vet minimum guy
Vet minimum guy
Vet minimum guy
Vet minimum guy
Vet minimum guy
It’s definitely tough to construct a roster that way, but they’d also have a whole lot of talent in that starting five. That’s why Carmelo suddenly makes a little bit of sense, since they’re so devoid of talent on the back end of the bench. You gotta figure that one of McGee or Chandler returns to back up Davis, right? Maybe even both, allowing Davis to play a little 4, maybe?
like brogdon a lot as a player, love him as a person. can’t see paying 4/$100 for his limited upside given the injury risk. his foot injury at Virginia was a long time ago, but it was the kind of thing you worry about long term, and he’s torn a quad and the fascia on his other foot since he’s been in the league. like him, but no on 4/$100 for his 27-30 on a currently shit team.
does anyone outside of us really place any value in Luke Kornett? he’s barely played 1000 NBA minutes. I know most of his shots are from 3, but he shot under 40% last year. he doesn’t really rebound.
I know he’s a nice role player
Maybe not, But he’s the sort of player the Lakers could go after with their minimum salary slots unless they want retreads like Melo. Honestly, I think they actually will go after the older guys, but they’d do better picking up some young players like Kornet.
Thinking about it I feel like the Lakers minimum slots should be pretty much the most appealing minimum slots in the history of the league – they’re offering huge amounts of available playing time; on a team that expects to compete for a title; to play for the Lakers in LA. I don’t really know how you could do better than that. If they’re smart and think creatively they should be able to wash up some pretty good players – Kornet would be a nice flier for them. Instead, if the rumors are true they seem to be aspiring for “guys Lebron enjoys sharing a bottle of Cab with”.
The Celtics are going to miss Al Horford’s defense a LOT if he bolts, but Kemba Walker will be an excellent addition to replace Kyrie Irving.
I’m starting to imagine Kawhi will want to join the Lakers. Joining forces with LeBron and A.D. would just be too good. Apparently he rooted for Iverson’s Sixers growing up but there must still be some allure of playing for the Lakers when you’re from L.A. I know the persistent rumor is that he’s going to the Clippers or staying with the Raptors and that he is supposedly sort of weird and understated compared to most stars… he and AD can be a solid foundation for another decade or so if they can stay healthy.
I don’t think there’s a lot of interest in Kornet outside of NY. Some team looking to fill out the end of their bench might be interested, but I think NY appreciates him more because we get to see how hard he plays. He’s still relatively young, a hard worker, and very smart. That’s a pretty good profile for improving. I don’t mind keeping him at all, but as of last year, he was an end of the bench player.
I agree. They can probably get a Vonleh level players too.
Me too. We are also getting a little guard heavy after drafting RJ.
We need SFs, PFs, and another C.
I kind of like Bobby Portis as a good fit next to Robinson on the offensive end. He fits the profile of a young improving player at a position of need. Unfortunately he’s restricted and will probably cost too much. I also haven’t seen enough to know if he defends, but the data is not encouraging. That’s kind of what we need though. We need a young stretch PF unless we think Knox is strong enough to move there now (which I doubt).
FWIW Begley is saying the KD and Kyrie to Nets buzz is not accurate according to “sources.”
bobby portis is the kind of mediocrity you don’t spend money on. One year deal? Sure, whatever. Anything else-absolutely not, and he’s a restricted FA, so let’s just move on.
I like brogdon the most of the sub-elite FAs we’ve been discussing lately, but he’s probably too expensive for us.
We just drafted 3rd in the NBA draft, have a few other young players with some potential, and have 70 million of cap space, but instead of being excited, I feel terrorized by this free agency period.
I am so certain that our management is incompetent at evaluating players on both sides of the ball and understanding how to fit them together, I feel like I’m waiting for the final nail in the coffin of my 50 year fandom.
Let’s just get it over with and see if it’s a nightmare or whether they at least don’t do anything dumb enough to make me throw in the towel. I’m already pretty sure nothing good is likely to come of it.
My last sabbatical came when they traded for Melo. I shifted some of my energy to Denver. This time I think it will be Dallas.
This board would never inflate the value of a young player far beyond his ability or production. Never.
All-time KB team 😉
G – Toney Douglas
G – Landry Fields
F – Shump Shump
F – Anthony Randolph
C – Willy Hernangomez
I just hope someone (PHX) drops a max on d’AR right out of the box and puts the NYETS on the clock asap. Dolan should give them an envelope to do it….. Red shirt Durant and if another alpha dog isn’t interested stash capela and gordon, trade capela for picks (Boston sans Horford?) Rinse and repeat with KD/MR two lottery picks next season plus whatever improvement with the other 4 first round picks we currently have on the roster…..and a max slot still open…..
Of the FAs out there which ones have the greatest leverage ( KL, KI, KD[ is his leverage increased by the chance of re-signing?], KW, JB, TH, MB)? How long will they wait? Which teams will wait on these so-called top tiers and which teams will jump the shark and target FAs who aren’t ostensible top tier in exchange for some form of discount? A boatload of cap space chasing questionable value will seemingly enrich some dubious players.
It seems DAR has great leverage due to his mini-max status. Curious to hear your takes on how this plays out. A week of high anxiety indeed.
I fell for that one. But there’s a bright side to mistakes. You learn from them.
@18 Damn. I want KD/Kyrie to the Nets so bad. I just don’t have enough faith that KD is worth the max 3 yrs from now. So that’s a 1 yr window? Kyrie is just too frustrating. There was a video I saw on Twitter I think right after they got bounced where Kyrie is calling to defend Giannis on multiple plays and getting torched. He thinks he’s a top 5 player and that’s a huge fucking problem. He doesn’t fight thru screens ever. His offense is off the charts. I get it. But his defense nullifies a lot of that and his attitude is just bad enough to not want him for max $. Big mistake.
It feels almost as dangerous as a few years ago when the cap spiked and was projected to keep rising.
You want to move forward and improve your team, but in some ways you can only be as smart as your dumbest competitors. If some teams are willing to pay up for all the good players, you either match their foolishness or surrender the year. I think Perry may be smart enough to not make any terrible long term deals, but I don’t think Mills/Perry are good enough at talent evaluation and team building to come away with anything really smart.
I have nightmares of Boogie and Durant engaging in one legged races next year during Achilles rehab while wearing Knicks uniforms.
I have nightmares of Boogie and Robinson on the court together because Mills/Perry were impressed by how well Boogie and Davis worked together in New Orleans (this was reported as an actual conversation among Knicks management).
ESPN had an article today about how Boston’s problems last season weren’t just Kyrie’s fault. It made a good enough case that I wanted Kyrie more than before after I read the article.
Best friend of every NBA player Stephen A saying we might not even get a meeting with KD? Also, if Leonard goes to the Lakers, I’m done with the NBA.
Noah was a whole complicated situation and what, were they not gonna take Dallas for everything they could? We grabbed their available rookie, every first rounder they could send, and still cleared out some bad contracts. You’ve got to squint real hard to see that as only about FAs this off season.
Dream Knickerblogger might be my favorite Knickerblogger mode.
If KD decides to stay with the Warriors, he might not give anyone an interview. That wouldn’t be Dissing the Knicks.
i think KAwhi to lakers is a legitimate possibility
The only team that should probably offer KD a max is the Warriors. As an organization they should understand that what makes sense on a spreadsheet in the short term is not always what’s in the best interests of the organization over the long term. There are free agents and players refusing to talk to Boston because of how they treated Thomas after he gave up his body for them in the playoffs and ruined his only chance for a major payday. Durant is a marginal enough situation for the Warriors to make the move. For NY, imo, that’s not true.
For the Warriors
Year 1 – out
Year 2 – load management, slowly recovering, but not back to best form, can still compete for a title
Year 3 – assuming he’s still healthy, he’s 33 years old and declining, still can compete for a title
year 4 – assuming he’s still healthy, he’s 34 years old and declining, still can compete for a title
year 5 – same
The Knicks get years 1-4, except we’ll be competing for a playoff spot because all our young players will not be even close to their peaks yet or have the playoff experience necessary to go all the way.
Unless Durant has strong personal reasons for wanting to leave, post injury, with new perceptions about his contribution to their titles, GS is a no brainer.
Next season will be the age 27 season for Brogdon. Remember, he was a very old rookie. So for anyone who wants to throw a bunch of money at him, remember that he is in his prime now, not his growth stage. He is unlikely to get much better. He may regress, given that he won’t have Giannis and a bunch of dead-eye shooters around him anymore.
Based on recent rumors and likelihood’s, I think the starting Knicks might look like this one to five after all the trading and signing is done.
Kyrie Irving
RJ Barrett
Kevin Knox
Vonleh or Randle
Mitch Robinson
That’s not a lot of defense, but it is still better than last
year.
Brogdon is already a good player, and more importantly, he’s a good two-way player. He’s not a lockdown defender, but he does the switching thing very well, and at 6’5” with a 6’11” wingspan he has the dimensions you want from a switch defender.
He doesn’t scream “star” but he’s one of those guys that’s so well-rounded he ends up being sort of underrated. Still a questionable player in terms of win curve for this terrible NYK team but he is a nice player.
The argument that he will be worth that contract is 100% faith. The tail end of the age curve is often steep as hell, and that’s not even including the injury.
Wade hadn’t had a positive net rating since 2014. Still paid $75M in the years since. Dirk couldn’t crack >1 BPM in his final five years (and had one of the worst seasons imaginable this year). Paid $69M. (Nice.) Carmelo, -0.7, -3.8 and -5.9 BPM in his final three years. His contract ran $76M and he was exiled accordingly. It can happen here.
Signing Durant is basically a joyride with the lights off and no seatbelt on. Maybe you make it to your destination intact, but the crash will be catastrophic if it comes.
Assuming we strike out on KD/Kyrie, the best long-term plan is to go into asset acquisition mode for 2 years. Take on any bad contracts with 2 remaining years on them as long as they’re attached to serious assets. That includes most of the bad contracts in the league. Just announce that we’re open for business as a dumping ground. Teams like OKC, Miami, Houston, and Portland are desperate to unload contracts so they can either get under the tax or sign more free agents to make a playoff run.
There is no point in restricting ourselves to 1-year deals. The 2020 free agent class is garbage. Might as well just skip it. If we have a 2-year plan, then by the summer of 2021 we’ll have a clean cap with only rookie contracts, a whole bunch of assets, and we’ll know whether young guys like DSJ, Knox, Barrett, and Mitch are building blocks or not.
I agree that Noah was complicated. He mostly made his own bed (with a little help from coaching and management), but it wouldn’t have been appropriate to keep him buried when he believed he could still play. Last year he proved he could still play. The right way to handle his contract his debatable.
The only reason to clear out Lee was for free agents THIS year because he comes off the books at the end of this year.
The Hardaway contract was more problematical, but “time” means something when it comes to bad contracts also. If the team is many years away from contention, it makes no sense to push bad contracts out the door by giving up assets. That the reverse of what everyone here wants to do, which is, take on bad contracts for assets.
So getting rid of Hardaway and Lee can only be seen as an effort to get cap space THIS year.
If they thought KP wasn’t just bluffing and was going to leave money on the table and leave NY or if they didn’t want his injury risk, they should have traded him for JUST assets and left Lee and Hardaway out of the trade. That would have netted them a LOT more in quality back, Lee would expire this year, and Hardaway would play out his contract in NY while they continued to develop the better players and picks they got for KP.
So I was thinking what would I do in this offseason, if the meeting with Kawhi results in him predictably going somewhere else. I somewhat believe in “veteran presence” to develop correctly a young team, specially in areas where your team is more lacking. However, that is something you should do in a sensible way.
In that sense, I feel we have enough playmakers (even though very bad ones), but we are lacking in centers. I know that Robinson is the center of the future, but I dont like that he gets the pressure of being the only player responsible to hold down the defense of this train wreck of a team (fans, media, coach,…) . Nor do we need him to play 36 minutes a night in a season we don’t care about winning. So having a guy like DeAndre Jordan to split the time at center seems good to me.
So… hearing that OKC is trying to dump Steven Adams (and perhaps attach a pick!), I think we should jump in. For many reasons:
1) Veteran presence (duh!). But specially interesting since he is player that always cared more about his team than his numbers (take that, DeAndre).
2) His contract ends when Robinson is due for a new one.
3) His contract ends when Antetokounmpo is a FA
4) He is only 25. He is not going to be dead salary at any point. Even, perhaps in some other circumstances, he might be tradable for value.
I also would make a play for Rubio like a 3 year contract (so it ends in the same 2021 offseason) 16 million AAV, because I am a sucker for Rubio and actually would like to see a team with a respectable PG and C for once. But I understand the treadmill and all that, and why it might not be worthwhile.
If we don’t achieve our our A plan (Kawhi, Kyrie,…), the most important thing is not to sign contracts longer than 3 years, and aim for the 2021 offseason.
Brogdon is underrated in some sense-hes probably better than Kris Middleton. But he’s also available player to a franchise desperate to keep Giannis so you’ll probably have to go big if you want to get him, and at that point he doesn’t really work for the Knicks.
If GS is really offering a 5 year full max to KD he’s bonkers if he goes anywhere
It’s true that the cap space was cleared with the hope of getting 2 max guys (maybe 3 via trade) on board. But KD was always the centerpiece of the discussion and that was always a questionable outcome given what he would be giving up to come to a 17-win team. Then once KD blew out his achilles, it pretty much made it at best a toss-up as to whether it was a good idea anyway. We can rationalize about it, but the most prudent strategy from the beginning was to wait until we had a 35+ win team to consider anything but a big-3 (i.e. KD-Davis-whoever) outcome.
I think it’s fair to criticize the FO for not shopping around for a better deal for KP that didn’t include a premium for dumping Lee and TH2. Maybe Boston would have given more, or the Lakers, or whoever. But the 2 first rounders are very real assets, especially if KP performs at the low end of expectations here, and the swinging and missing in this great FA bonanza is not necessarily a bad thing. You cab bet the house that in a couple of years, several teams are going to be ruing the decisions they will make in the next week or 2, and the best hope is that we are not one of them. Remember all those contracts that were signed when the cap jumped?
You think the Celts are gonna be happy in year 3 of Kemba’s max?
You think the Nets are going to be happy in year 3 of KD and Kyrie’s max?
How’s Houston feeling these days about CP3’s max?
Once Davis committed to LA and KD went down, the best possible outcome for this team was to not sign anyone to a max deal. Let’s see what we have in the young guys, acquire more cheap young guys, and see if we can swindle another pick or 2 as teams get more and more desperate to win now. I would take on Capela in a heartbeat if a pick came with him…or PJ or Gordon for that matter. I’m down with watching another 17-win year, so long as there is intelligent planning by the FO rather than a keep up with the Jones’s flailing. And who knows? Maybe RJ is the real deal and we do this year what the Hawks did last year. I think that they (and the Nets, great job by them!) are the models for us to follow. Even the Kings look smarter these days. Let the capped out teams fight it out and feed on their carcasses
^yes.
Going for KD at age 31 was always a marginal idea at best for NY unless you were also considering blowing up the rebuild to pair him with players that were ready to win via trade. The rest of the team is way too far away (and unproven) to get to the promised land in KD’s narrow window even paired with Kyrie. We would have gotten some good basketball, but we weren’t going to win the chip before KD declined.
KD became a bad idea when he got hurt.
Honestly, I’m not sure what we should do from here. We don’t have access to information on who would consider coming, what trades are available etc..
They screwed things up so badly from where we should be and set us back so far, it’s hard to know what to do from here other than staying the course with young players and hoping they don’t screw up too badly.
This is great….the Knickerblogger all time roster
G – Toney Douglas
G – Landry Fields
F – Shump Shump
F – Anthony Randolph
C – Willy Hernangomez
I believe that Prigs, Kyle O’Quinn and Ron Baker come off the bench. Is Sheed a player / coach?
Yes
No
Like Idiots
@43 – summer 2021 is only two years from now so these would all have to be 2-year deals.
Beyond that – I’m fine with punting summer 2020 (unless Kawhi signs a one year in Toronto and we think we might be in play for him next year). So I’d take giving promising young players 2-year deals or taking in up to two-year contract dumps. But keeping the space for a trade down the road when the next disgruntled star emerges is also fine. I have very little expectation we will follow either path.
I do expect salary dumps to be available, though – either now or in the run-up to the deadline and again before next year’s draft. If we really are going to be ‘patient’ we have to stay in play for some of those opportunities. The picks given up this year for dumps yielded good players (or at least draft slots where good players were still available). Those extra picks are gold dust for a team in a real long-term rebuild AND for teams star-hugging via trades.
Also – interesting Woj piece on ESPN says dubs will offer KD in a sign and trade WITH a pick if he doesn’t want to stay to give them a trade exception and some salary cap flex. I’m not sold signing KD is the right play but that’s kind of an interesting idea… does commit us to year 5 though.
I admittedly know nothing about Brogdon’s injury history, so yeah, if that’s a major factor we probably shouldn’t touch him. I wouldn’t do 4/$100M, but I maintain that he’d be movable anytime at 4/$80M barring serious injury.
George Hill began a 3/$57M deal at age 31 and has since been traded twice for assets. When you can shoot, move the ball without needing it all the time, and defend reasonably well, there will be a team that wants you.
The Celtics are going to regret signing Kemba. He’s a good, not great player and they will have a lot of their cap tied up in good, not great players. They’re really paying a premium for Kemba’s supposed “leadership” and that seems like a real overreaction to Kyrie’s tenure there.
Ainge managed to spin the gold from the Garnett/Pierce trade into straw.
I think you can make a case for Cole Aldrich on the Knickerblogger all time roster.
Seems more and more like returning to GS is the best option for KD. He can do plenty of marketing out there, and it’s the best team he can pick from. They would’ve won it all again if they were fully healthy. Plus he gets more money/years and GS gets another couple shots at another ring.
Idk what’s best for NYKs, I guess just to stockpile good, young players/picks, but very good ones aren’t often made available in free agency. That leaves loading up on draft picks, which they say they won’t do. D’oh.
I think Mills/Perry is the definition of a mediocre front office, but can you say with a straight face that you prefer:
Kristaps Porzingis
Frank Ntilikina
Damyean Dotson
Courtney Lee
Carmelo Anthony
Kyle O’Quinn
Lance Thomas
Willy Hernangomez
Joakim Noah
$20M left in cap space, no surplus picks (and a crucial 2019 2nd traded away for the Wear Bear)
to
Mitchell Robinson
RJ Barrett
Damyean Dotson
Dennis Smith Jr.
Kevin Knox
Allonzo Trier
$70M in cap space, two extra first round picks from a team that just won 33 games
You…you really prefer the first situation to the second? Because if these guys “screwed things up so badly,” we definitionally should be in a worse place than where we were when they took over. From my point of view, mediocre GMing was such a huge upgrade over the hows it goink approach that we were able to make huge strides in two years despite only doing a few genuinely smart things.
Hill’s deal was 2 yrs w a de facto team option (this yr was non guaranteed).
and note that courtney fit your definition but was not tradeable
oh man kings are giving barnes 4/88. vlade!
Trust the Process! Rent the Space!
Like Strato, I’m beginning to feel some dread about what may be coming.
Please, no Boogie.
Harry Barnes for 90 million one of the dumbest contracts in sports history
Huck the Feck?
Barnes just one of those guys who was always destined to be overpaid.
You’re right about the contract, but don’t you think Hill being a full 4 years older at the time it was signed negates the added value of the shorter deal?
Re: Courtney Lee…come on, dude. This is a fairly ridiculous comparison. Lee was 31 when the deal was signed, never had any play making abilities to speak of, had a defensive reputation that nobody could seem to find any empirical support for, wasn’t as good of a shooter, and wasn’t nearly as good of an overall scorer.
i didn’t compare lee to brogdon i said this wasn’t necessarily true:
When you can shoot, move the ball without needing it all the time, and defend reasonably well, there will be a team that wants you.
I should also add that David Lee has to be on any list of all time Knickerblogger favorites. He kept us enthused for two years while we ignored his defense….
Barnes is living a charmed life. Rides the coattails of a championship team, parlays that into a max deal, then after underperforming that contract, he gets traded to a dumb Kings team that inexplicably has the hots for him, and signs another massive deal.
If you’re a free agent that has ever played for the Warriors, get Vivek on the phone immediately.
I don’t think Lee fits the description particularly well, but I should’ve been clearer that by “move the ball” I was referring to actual play making.
Of course there will always be exceptions to any general trend, I just don’t see why Brogdon would be one unless he suffers a bad injury (which seems more likely than I was previously aware).
let me put a finer point on it. i think the offseason preferences of some the posters i normally tend toward agreeing with is somewhere between unwise and terrible. so much so that i actually pref plan c suite. this idea the you can max d lo or pay randle 80/4 or brogdon 100/4 (i admit 80/4 is closer but i would not go higher than 72/4 without a 4th yr player option and that won’t get it done so it’s moot) are all bad risk rewards.
and i view the value of the put option of sending those contracts out if they’re not looking great as much lower than apparent consensus. i would literally rather pay rubio $30/2 with a 3rd yr tram option for no apparent reason (if i wasn’t allowed to rent the cap space) just to avoid a bigger, riskier commitment i see as EV negative.
I honestly don’t know what a good plan is beyond spending a few years taking on bad contracts and accumulating assets. And I can’t seriously expect the FO to do that.
Russell, Randle, Barrett, and Mitch is a better plan than we have had around here for a while. And I don’t like that at all.
The Celtics are going to regret signing Kemba.
As opposed to what?
Blowing it up and trading everyone not on a rookie deal?
Resigning Kyrie and Horford after one of the most frustrating seasons in team history?
Taking Capela and company from Houston in a Jimmy Buckets threeway deal?
Sign Vucevic from Orlando? Or some lesser combo of players like Julius Randle + Patrick Beverly?
Bringing back Rozier and Morris?
Mike
I was thinking of Randle at maybe four years for $60 million. Bigs just aren’t worth huge contracts nowadays. I mean he’s kind of like a younger slightly better Kanter. I’m not thrilled about him, but at that price I wouldn’t be horrified by the deal. He’s basically a quality starter, but at a position not currently in high demand, so that seems fair. But the Barnes contract May have changed the market, which wouldnt be good for us.
Yeah, Russell/Randle at their ages is a better money dump than say, Jimmy Butler or Kemba. I’m not giddy about it or anything, but it won’t doom the team to hell, although getting picks for the Hornets’ trash would clearly be the smarter play.
I won’t count anything out with Perry until the end of free agency. He seems like a really smart dude. Idk if his hands are somewhat tied, but he could ultimately surprise us.
i wouldn’t whine about randle at 4/60, i just suspect he’ll cost more.
Here’s a better idea than signing Randle if you’re looking to add useless marginal wins. Sign KOQ to a three year deal at 4m per with a team option on the fourth. He’s still a better player, and likely will continue to be. Then sign Kornet + Vonleh to something near the minimum and voila, you have your PF/C rotation along when you add spot minutes for Iggy/Knox/random UDFA.
Randle isn’t going to move the needle, especially when you can get 50-75% of his value near the vet min. I don’t want to max D-Lo, but wouldn’t scream bloody murder if he was maxed by us. Doesn’t look like we’re interested in paying for him, though. Brogdon at 4/80 is still too rich for my blood (especially because we’re not where we need to be on the win curve) but I wouldn’t tear my hair out or anything. I just don’t want to see all of our cap tied up in Randle/Brogdon/D-Lo. At best, you should sign one and hoard the rest of the space.
We’re going to end up with a starting five of Rozier, RJ, Knox, Randle/Portis and Mitch, having fished out $40m per over two years for Rozier and whichever PF we get. Book it.
I think Langston Galloway should be a candidate for the All-Knickerblogger team.
all 3 of you guys are right….galloway, cole, lee are enshrined. What about Gallo? What about Mosgov? Crazy Eyes Thomas?
Gallinari has had a great career all things considered, injuries, trades, etc. He might be too good for the KB HOF.
The discussions about him in the leadup to the Melo trade were definitely some of the spiciest we have ever had on this board….
wasn’t there a time when jared jeffries was like the most productive guy on the team…
There was a time when Jared Jeffries trying to make a layup was the most exciting thing this board had going on…
Had a thought:
If Knicks are dead set on hitching their wagon to a 32 year old Durant, does it make a little more sense to engage Houston about taking on Paul’s albatross?
Houston offered four 1sts for butler. They could be open to giving up 3 to dump Paul, keep their core, and add Butler. I don’t have any delusions about an old Paul and post injury Durant being great, but it’s something. And if all the kids are still here, and we have 3 Houston picks to add to two Dallas picks and all of ours, it lessens the sting of paying $80mm to two guys past their prime.
This is actually the perfect marriage of our desire to use cap space to acquire assets attached to bad contracts and the Knicks desire to sign Durant.
@75
That’s a totally plausible, and bummer scenario. And that team probably wins enough games to put the Knicks’ lottery pick next year back to 8+ range.
It looks like maybe all of us expect the Knicks will spend a big chunk (if not all) of the cap space. So, we keep arguing who would be best if they spend $30-40m of it.
My nightmare is anything involving Boogie Cousins. Please no.
I heard Kelenna Azubuike is getting cleared to practice this week.
@49
Balkman
Jorts
Flight White
Extra E
Mozgov Obey
If this blog was around in 2004 I would imagine Frank Williams and Mike Sweetney would be all-time Knickerblogger HOFers.
Jorts was the Cole Aldrich of his time
Go back to the 1990’s, Anthony Bonner and John Wallace!!
I still can’t believe Toney Douglas didn’t become a bargain basement CP3… Such is life.
And don’t forget Lin! I’ll never forgive friggin’ Morey for that. It totally ruined his career, too.
I can’t believe the Lakers talked Anthony Davis out of $4 million. I know he’s going to be mega rich anyway, but $4 million is a lot of money to sacrifice to a bum front office.
There was a brief moment where Chasson Randle got our hopes up, but yeah, I think Toney Douglas or Galloway deserve to start at PG on the all time KB team more. Trey Burke is a more recent one too, and that lasted the whole past offseason, so he deserves a spot at the bench for sure.
I think this blog was around in 2004. You’d have to ask Mike but it definitely was around early 2005 and I think he spent a lot of time back then talking about how Sweetney should get more run….
@49 – Add Thanasis Antetokounmpo and Fredrick Weis. And for us old-timers, Harthorne Wingo.
Anthony Bonner wasn’t a bad player
Bo Kimble would have been popular on the Knickerblogger America Online forums if they existed in 1994
Bo Kimble’s tourney run was pretty unbelievable. It had me pretty jacked up as a teenager….
As others noted, this was all right around the same time that Davis was cast in Lebron’s Space Jam sequel. What odds would you put on him making, say, $4 million on that film?
Wasn’t there noise out of Boston that the Knicks wanted too much for KP? We got a big haul. It’s disingenuous to suggest it was all about a salary dump and striking out in free agency means the FO failed and Mills is lying about the Knicks not having failed. Folks were talking about Durant as a sure thing in January and it was always a long shot, even before the injury when it made sense. If they don’t want to sign him now that’s an indication that they aren’t morons.
It was not all about signing KD, but a good chunk of it was about signing KD (and a second max free agent to pair with KD. With that point, I do agree that they never had anyone specific in mind, but rather felt that KD’s presence would naturally draw in someone else really good). Again, you wouldn’t use KP to dump Lee and Hardaway’s contract to clear space for two max contracts if you were not about to sign two max contracts. It’s res ipsa loquitur.
James Dolan in March, the height of restraint, “I can tell you from what we’ve heard I think we’re going to have a very successful offseason when it comes to free agents. The thing about the team now is that it’s very young. It’s the youngest team in the NBA. You take a look at some of the players that we have and they won’t be the centerpiece of the team, but as complements to the centerpiece of the team, we’re developing them right now.”
But no, they weren’t planning around this specific offseason when they dumped Lee and Hardaway’s contract.
It’d be like Donnie Walsh being interviewed on July 9, 2010 saying, “We didn’t trade Jared Jeffries’ contract just to make room for Lebron. We wanted to keep ourselves open for different opportunities!”
oh, we are forgetting jimmr!!
and what about mindingus cunnilingus or whatever his name was?
Campy Russell
Mindaugas Kuzminskas.
I feel like I see some of him in Iggy Braz’s game.
LeBron even gave his number to AD, I’m 100% sure that money will come for AD in Space Jam 2.
I’m getting pretty scared about the Lakers getting Kawhi. It would be so annoying going from the Warriors straight to the damn Lakers with this big 3 dominating the league.
I always thought Tony Campbell should’ve gotten more playing time.
The Barnes signing is worse than any signing the Knicks haveever made. The Knicks keep knocking on the cellar door of all NBA franchises but the Kings just won’t let ‘em in.
Owen, we must be around the same age. That Loyola run and gun offense was something else.
Nick Fazekas didn’t play for the Knicks but he deserves to be on this knickerblogger list with a * by his name
Kawhi needs to come to the Knicks with Kemba!
The Knicks Lakers was a rivalry back in the day! Imagine a great Lakers team meeting a great Knicks team in the Finals! It would be fucking epic and why would Kawhi want to join Lebron when he can SON him to death in game 7 of the Finals at The Garden?
Um, the idea is players who KB loved who didn’t get what we thought was enough run (or respect). None of those players qualify.
Forgot about Jorts. Absolutely.
The Barnes deal is a perfect encapsulation of what we should all expect to see in this offseason. There will be some bargains, no doubt, but they will be few and far between and almost everyone you look at and say, “Oh, that guy is pretty good” will be making $20 million a year. Barnes is signed for 4 years/$22 million a year based on promise! The dude has been in the NBA for years and teams are still willing to throw $88 million at him in the hopes that he grows as a player! This is madness!
Dolan just hears what he wants to hear. We’re damn lucky he’s not all that interested anymore.
For sure, it’s gonna be ridiculous. I hope we stay safely out of this. The Specials are better than Madness, always have been.
Nothing sates me like Brian Cronin incredulity. Always deserved, but it feels extra special coming from the board’s most pleasant cynic.
Definitely agreed.
Yeah, if you want to see exhibit A of why franchises sometimes stay garbage, just look at this Barnes contract. The worst part is Sacramento fans and general reddit people trying to rationalize like oh well, the Kings can’t attract free agents anyway, or he’s a versatile wing and those are expensive, he shot 40% from 3 in 28 games with the Kings, etc… even some people saying it’s a pretty good contract because Middleton is the same player but will get paid a max (which just goes to show how overrated Middleton has been lately). It really is silly.
I really like the young pieces the Kings have, but soon they’ll have to pay Hield, Bogdanovic and Fox and they’ll be capped out with this core for at least two years hoping Harrison Barnes improves at 27, just because he was once a top rated high school player
Barnes is not that bad a player, career 37% 3pt shooter and while he isnt a high efficiency guy he is not an inefficient chucker either. Would be nice if he was a better rebounder and passer but lets face it with the salary numbers guys are getting paid now a player like Barnes his going rate probably is at 20m or so. We have to adjust our thoughts of what is considered overpaid nowadays.
I’m more of an English Beat guy.
With Jimmy Butler running the offense during the playoffs…. is there any way to shake Ben Simmons loose from Philly? He may be very pissed right now.
Is there any way to shake Sabonis loose from indy as they have Turner and took Goga
Bitadze in the first round???
Inquiring minds want to know…..
I’m more irked at the clear sense that they’re planning on him improving, which is madness. But yes, I agree that all the Barnes signing does is show what the market looks like – everyone decent is going to get paid.
If Vucevic is going to get $90M for four years, my thoughts of Randle at $60M are probably a pipe dream.
Hey JK47, hit me up here
And count me in on giving up on the NBA if the Lakers pull Kawhi out of their asses. My supervisor claims he “knows people” that’s telling him it’s a done deal.
*sigh*
Very likely, yep. It’s pretty crazy, but it is what it is.
Why is everyone worried about the Lakers? I’m pretty sure that between Kawhi’s defective drivetrain, LeBron’s traipsing hairline and Davis’s thumb, quad, hip, ankle, knee, toe, shoulder, other hip, groin, chest and fingers, they won’t play more than 160 games between them.
The Bucks waived George Hill, but would like to re-sign him. The problem is that they only have $13 million under the cap to try to get Brook Lopez to come back (one of the good things about being a good team is that it is one of the few times where players actually occasionally give teams discounts). So add the Bucks to the list of teams who could be looking to dump salary.
Minnesota, too, would like to add a guard despite being capped out. The salary dump opportunities are out there!
Comparing Wade to Durant is silly. Wade relied purely on his ability to get to the rim – we all knew when he lost a step he would be terrible. Durant’s shooting and play making and ridiculous length will still play when he loses his step.
Signing KD and Kemba (who this board underates) and waiting til next year is my favorite plan. 2nd is the JK47 plan B
I fully agree with this. Lady Jowles and I got high as hell the other night and watched the NBA’s best poster dunks (all 20 minutes, very impressed with her) and there were some young Wade plays that made my jaw drop. Wade was a slasher if there ever was one, and incredibly athletic.
You’re right that Durant is a tall guy, and tall guys age later than shorter guys do. But he, unlike Wade, is coming off a damn achilles injury, and Durant plays much more like a SG or a wing than other tall guys do. Watch his highlights. He uses that explosiveness to great effect on the downhill, and he roasts guys on the perimeter with quick dribble moves and jab steps. He is fearless at the rim, and he gets there an awful lot (19% of his shots).
Do you think he’ll ever have 114 dunks in a season again, as he did last year? I sure as hell don’t. And what happens if you replace 60 of those dunks with midrange shots? What happens if you see his USG% rate drop to 24 from 29? Despite his outstanding RAPM this year, he had been slipping in the years prior. It’s an achilles injury, for pete’s sake. This is not a minor thing. This is a career-changer.
@124
The Bucks already dumped Snell to Detroit, which is a deal I would have loved to take, but they might still be looking to trade Ilyasova who would probably be even better, as he’s a proven veteran that should be tradeable to a contender at the deadline.
@123 Well for myself, personally, I live here in LA around a bunch of Laker fans, some of whom like to take their #LOLKnicks shots @ me (I should show you the text my supervisor just sent me… lol.)
This includes my fiancee, though at least she does it lovingly.
The Lakers are not currently a well-run team. But they pull LeBron, trade for AD, and now get to sign Kawhi – not because they’re the best organization, but because they’re simply the Lakers???
Yeah, I’m salty today.
“I fully agree with this”
I almost fell off my stool….
Durant will still be a top 10 or 15 player or whatever. He’s worth the risk imo.
I just turned 50. I’d like to see a competitive team before I drop. I’m done with the wait for the perfect player thing. Don’t give up picks. Sign good players. Get to the point where we’re a move or 2 from being a legit ECF contender and then make another big move.
@126 I think Durant has 3 very productive i.e. top-20 player years left. Think about how much less Jordan dunked as he grew older. He is probably a top-5 shooter in NBA history and one of the great iso wings of all time. Sure, his efficiency may drop off a tad, but I doubt that will be the issue for him.
As with most older players, the place you really have to be worried about is his D. He was a vastly underrated defender for most of his career. Getting down in a crouch, shuffling laterally, going over/under screens, beating bigger players to spots in the post, jumping out to contest 3’s, getting back in transition…that’s where his value as the two-way player he was pre-injury will come into question. If he becomes, say Kemba or Kyrie level, he’s not worth $40+ million.
https://www.truehoop.com/p/how-to-ruin-an-elite-rookie
Anyone subscribe to this? I am curious about how, specifically, we ruin rookies. And how Mitch escaped that fate.
I think the Snell trade was bad. You don’t take two years of Snell for the #30 pick when the #34 was sold for nothing but cash. As for Ilyasova, I would take him for a future 1st. He is cheap enough, productive enough and only has one guaranteed year left on his deal. I don’t know if they are in that much of a rush to move him. If they want cap space they could stretch him they would shave all but 2 million off their cap this year.
We once traded two unprotected 1RP for the right to pay Eddy Curry a near max contract.
And, speaking of Joakim Noah, we gave him a 4-year/$72M contract even though he was completely and obviously washed.
Linky no worky, CDiggy
I am on the fence about Durant. It is a huge gamble but one maybe worth taking. He would be the best Knick in my lifetime and I have faith he will still be productive for the whole contract. Maybe not transcendent but certainly not Amare or Melo near the ends of their contracts.
If we could get him and still add at least two other pieces then it could be okay. I think if we could position ourselves to be a low playoff team without him then I feel a lot better about getting him. If it’s just him then I worry much more.
Maybe Durant + Brogdon + Beverley or Durant + Russell + Ross
Then add a good big man with the room exemption I’m thinking Noel or Bell both of whom will probably be signed for right around that kind of money.
copy and paste the link to your browser and there’s some content inside it
Bro, I’m not sitting here telling you that healthy Durant ain’t worth a max. He’s going to be 32 with a bum Achilles the next time he touches a basketball in an NBA game.
You think he’s going to be a top-20 player at age 34? That’s quite generous. That would be LeBron-like, only if LeBron tore his achilles and came back 100%.
He is probably a top-3 shooter in NBA history and perhaps THE great ISO wing of all-time. And at $40M a year or whatever crazy number he’ll get, he needs to shoot .600 TS% on 25 USG% or you are going to see some real weak value out of him. This is a catastrophic injury and everyone keeps saying, “Yeah, but it’s 2019 — surgery is real good now!” Maybe it’s better, but this isn’t Tommy John surgery we’re talking about.
How about now, JK47?
@138
That worked!
I guess I’m kind of considered the “author” of the Russell/Brogdon/Randle plan but honestly I’m not even really into it that much. It’s just one bad option that seems less bad than some of the other bad options.
That being said, I think I’d rather watch a young team like that fall short and disappoint me than watch a faded Kevin Durant play like a shell of himself over a bunch of years, each year less productive and more sad than the one before it.
Woj with a non-bomb:
“Story filed to ESPN: Golden State’s Kevin Durant is planning to engage four teams in discussions upon the opening of NBA free agency on Sunday – the Brooklyn Nets, Los Angeles Clippers, New York Knicks and Warriors, league sources tell ESPN.”
I’m worried about signing Durant too. Most full Max contracts seem to end up being millstones rather than bargains.
And more expensive. Don’t forget more expensive!
@141
I hope KD drags out his decision, making the Knicks wait as many other free agents come off the market. Most notably one Boogie Cousins.
🙂
Only 7 players scored over 1500 points this year with a TS% of >600 or above and a USG% above 25 (Julius Randle minimally qualified). If you drop that number to .580, the list grows to 17 players. Nearly all of them are sure hall of fame players. If Durant attempts more 3’s and fewer dunks, I think it’s plausible that he keeps his TS% above .580 at a reasonably high usage, including being invaluable in crunch time. He’ll still be 6’11” with an enormous reach and ridiculous skill level and is a highly intelligent player…I’m confident he will figure our a way to adapt to his new reality. Maybe not $40 mill AAV wort, but top-20 in today’s NBA is not a stretch.
We just can’t possibly know how Durant is going to come back. That alone makes me not want to sign him to a max. We can’t know if he’ll still be a top 10 or top 20 even player because his situation is so unique. The only somewhat recent guys to have the same injury are Rudy Gay, who was about as mediocre before as he is now, so we can say he recovered well; Wes Matthews, who saw a huge drop off in performance; Cousins, who hasn’t looked good in a small sample size and then guys like Kobe and Billups who were already done anyway when they got injured. I won’t count Dominique and other guys since it was so long ago. There’s no indication at all that it’s possible to come back to a great level after such an injury, and while I concede that Durant relies less then most superstars on his athleticism, he still relied on it a lot when it came to creating space for himself and draw fouls.
I’m 100% with THCJ here that it is way too risky for it to be worthy. If we already had a better team, and then signed Kyrie + Durant, then maybe I’d be on board with it. As of now, I wouldn’t take the risk.
There is also a possibility that he comes back at a top-10 player level on offense (with some adjustments) and stays there for 4 more years. Not likely, but possible.
He also started out as a better player than everyone on that list by far (Kobe is arguable, but efficiency-wise it’s not even close, and Kobe was as dependent on athleticism as anyone).
A more serious worry, imho, is whether he will be susceptible to other injuries. There’s a lot of miles on those knees.
@130 – I think Durant will be very productive in 2 years but will be Amare Stoudemire on the Knicks good. Not top-20. More like top-40. But if he’s in the 15-20 rank, is he what we want? Pre-injury Durant was top-5. His contract will be the same albatross that Stat’s was. In 3 years we’ll be dying to get rid of his oppressive contract. And top-40 isn’t guaranteed either. I’m desperately worried about this. They say “Never go food shopping when you’re hungry” and that’s exactly what the Knicks are doing.
Oh, I don’t want him either. He’s a much better fit with other teams. I just think he will be better than some here are suggesting.
When I talk about needing to get lucky, this is the kind of thing I mean.
I think the Amare comparison is not very fair because Amare was 100% reliant on his athleticism for everything he did well on the court. Durant won’t forget how to shot incredibly well as long as he still has lift on his legs, which should not be super affected by an Achilles injury.
I would safely say Durant will return as a top 30 player, maybe even at the top 20 if he makes the right adjustments, but I’m not even really worried about his first year back from injury, is the later stages of the contract that scare me. I’m sure he’ll still be a pretty good player when he recovers and adjusts, but then there’s 2 to 3 more years of wear and tear on his body plus the likely natural decline due to age until his contract is finished.
It’s a damn shame because I seriously wanted him to sign with the Knicks so much, I was extremely hyped about it, but it’s a bad risk-reward proposition specially if we can’t guarantee we’ll have a team ready to make a serious title run in 2020-21.
The (completely unrealistic) smart play would be to give Durant a 2+1 with a team option on the 3rd year. It’s a terrifying amount of money to offer a guy who is missing what should be the most productive year of the contract and who might not be all that great anymore.
I don’t want the Knicks to sign KD or really any big $ contracts, but I’d be okay with it if they just signed him, rent the rest of the cap (surely gonna be chances to take on bad contracts in deals in return for 1st round picks), and tank like hell this season (play all the kids). Hopefully high lottery piece added next year. Final clarity on Frank and DSJ (probably both gone).
However, why in the world would he come here for that? Surely, there’s got to be a second guy for him to come, and I really dislike Irving despite his scoring talent. And who is going to be willing to play on a terrible team for a whole year waiting for KD to heal?
My biggest bummer would be Cousins. But if KD and KI both get maxed here next week, I think that will end up a huge mistake.
Knicks might end up with Rozier and Tobias Harris.
The rookies in question are Knox, Mudiay and Ntilikina. I can’t defend the Knicks player development, but those are 3 guys I thought shouldn’t have been drafted where they were.
It’s like giving KP the mini max, except we know Durant was amazing before the injury, and he’s a bit more money.
And obviously Mudiay wasn’t even drafted by the Knicks so I don’t know what that article is all about.
Darren Collison to retire to concentrate on his Jehovah’s Witness ministry.
Ooooookay.
Cam Reynolds cut by Minnesota. He’d be an interesting guy to bring to Summer League.
@158
He could maybe help the community a lot if he just stopped beating on his wife.
I’m taking KD if he wants to come. Fuck it. I’ve been through a shitshow of half assed superstars. Give me a real one. Sign him, tank and pray to the injury gods he comes back good and we have another top pick to join him after next year.
@152 – Basketball is all about athleticism. Amare was a good, and smart player that’s why he continued to be valuable after his issues. If Durant is 80% of his former self physically, he won’t be top-50. It’s really simple.
I poked around PUBMED for studies on this stuff and while I could only find studies NFL, NBA and NHL players combined. While many didn’t return (biased for age correlation to injury?) the conclusion bodes well for Durant’s out years:
In English…. The Knicks if they sign him for 4 or 5 years should get 2.5-3.5 years of the pre-injury Durant we would expect to get without the injury. (his statistical decline phase).
Those are the best stats available.
Quite frankly , if this guy decides he wants to come here, it won’t be an A’mare deal where he did it for the money, it will be because he wants to give himself a challenge to show he is among the GOATs.
I can see Durant aging like a Reggie Miller on steroids.