(Tuesday, January 15, 2019 7:00:40 PM)
The Knicks may have caught only a couple hours of sleep on their flight to London Tuesday, but they weren’t thinking about the hotel beds when they landed at 10:30 a.m. They were ready to hit the London streets.
[NYTimes] Keeping Score: James Harden, the N.B.A.’s One-Man Band, Hits a High Note (Tuesday, January 15, 2019 3:52:22 PM)
Harden’s 57 points against Memphis accounted for more than half of his team’s total helping make up for his lack of a supporting cast.
(Tuesday, January 15, 2019 6:35:18 PM)
Post columnist Steve Serby caught up with Knicks point guard Emmanuel Mudiay for some Q&A touching on his admiration for Muhammad Ali and growing up with a single mother in Kinshasa, Zaire (now Democratic Republic of the Congo). Q: What is your fascination with Muhammad Ali? A: That’s my favorite athlete of all time. I’m…
(Tuesday, January 15, 2019 6:19:54 PM)
LONDON — That Kristaps Porzingis did not travel across the pond to be a Knicks ambassador on their London sojourn is a good sign for those wanting to see him hit the hardwood this season. Porzingis loves Europe and spent all five months of his offseason rehabbing his knee in Spain and Latvia, instead of…
(Tuesday, January 15, 2019 10:20:45 AM)
LONDON — It was only appropriate, on their first day in London, the Knicks visited Big Ben on Tuesday. Both institutions are under a massive reconstruction project and nearly unrecognizable. “Where are you, Big Ben?” one tourist chirped as she took a photo of the steel gratings covering up London’s most famous landmark. The Knicks…
99 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.01.16)”
It remains insane to me that there are people who wouldn’t trade Frank for DSJ in an instant, though I can assure them they have nothing to worry about because Mark Cuban might be a sexual harassment enabling jackass but he’s not an idiot.
He’s not my kind of player and I’m not all that bullish on his future, but Smith Jr. has made serious leaps. His TS% went from .473 to .534. His 2PT% went from .435 to .479. Similar increases in 3PT% and STL%. Keep in mind he was pretty damn productive in college so it’s not like this is coming out of nowhere.
Sure, some of it might be anomalous and the sample size isn’t big. He’s still undoubtedly more promising than Frank Ntilikina, who has managed to regress from an already terrible rookie year.
DSJ is within sight of being at least a rotation level player. Can you honestly say the same about Frank?
Smith also saw his assists decrease while his turnovers increased. I’d want to try to dig into his shooting to see if the improvement is a result of him playing off the ball more. If you’re trading for him to use him more as a point guard that shooting improvement might not carry over.
He’s definitely better than Frank, but he still sucks.
I wouldn’t do a Frank for DSJ swap, but if there’s something else attached (I can’t bring myself to embrace the Matthews/DSJ for THJ/Frank rumor though, because I fear that my heart could break if it then didn’t happen) I’d be for it. I like Frank, but DSJ has more perceived value in the league.
Sure, some of it might be anomalous and the sample size isn’t big. He’s still undoubtedly more promising than Frank Ntilikina, who has managed to regress from an already terrible rookie year. DSJ is within sight of being at least a rotation level player.
I hear you but I can’t smell you. DSJ is really only doing two things better this year. He’s shooting more at the rim and he’s hitting more 3s. The 3s are in 100 attempts, which as you acknowledge is a bob in the ocean. So far in the NBA he’s 32.7% on 443 3PA and 69.1% at the line. Way too early for me to believe 37.5%. They’ve worked hard to get him to stop taking pull-up 2s, and he really is getting to rim a ton. But he’s not very efficient there, not getting more FTA, and he loses the ball so much on the way in it’s not all that encouraging.
You can’t blame him for Doncic taking his assists down, but given that the turnovers are insane. Someone who scores 16/36 with 5 ast is usually around 2 TOV/36. Those 2 extra TOVs take a 54% TS down to ~45%. As a result, even at 38% from 3 he’s still a really, really bad offensive player…and that’s supposedly to be the good part of his game. Despite much better numbers than Frank I think his path to being a useful NBA player is at least as hard for me to see. I don’t think it would be a miracle, but I don’t think it would be a miracle if Frank become useful, either. I wouldn’t make that trade straight up, but I can see why people would disagree.
I’d trade Frank for a cheeseburger. He sucks – why even bother with these ridiculous trade scenarios?
Blah blah stats blah.
Pterodactyl wings > T-Rex arms
I’d keep Frank over DSJ without hesitation.
I see DSJ’s upside as a good volume scorer with an average to slightly above average TS%, terrible defender, and not a particularly good team oriented player even though he’ll get his share of assists. In other words, I think he’ll be a net negative player that will generate pointz, stats, and some great highlights, but not many wins. (not to mention current injury and TO issues)
I still see Frank as eventually becoming a solid versatile plus defender, a good secondary play maker, and a player that can hit open 3s and score here or there off the dribble at an efficient enough level to be a net plus player. I also see him as the perfect PERFECT compliment next to guys like KP and Knox (scorers) and whoever we draft and sign (probably scorers knowing current management).
Of course, I also see him as a better fit next to Doncic. And even though I don’t hold Cuban in high regard, I hold Carlisle in high regard. I’d be willing to bet Carlisle would WAY rather have Frank next to Doncic now also.
Not for nothing, though, but there’s absolutely no way that Ewing wouldn’t be a three-point shooter in the modern game, right?
DSJr seems like the kinda guy we’re gonna bemoan for maxing because he puts up a lot of points while having bad knees.
Ewing was a 40% shooter from beyond 16 feet in his awful Seattle season (I don’t believe we have shooting stats before that year)! Those long twos would definitely become threes.
I hate DSJ’s game but not as much as I hate Frank’s
I’ve had enough pain as a Knicks fan for over 3 decades. PLEASE, do not threaten me with a catastrophic future centered around Knox, a maxed-out Porzingis and Frank. We can’t be rebuilding forever!!!!!
If you think Frank really sucks and will suck eternally, imagine what Dallas really thinks of DSJ that they would even contemplate hanging THJr’s albatross of a contract around their neck to dump DSJ……. chew on that a little bit….
The only conclusions are in order of likelyhood:
1… it’s complete BS
2… DSJ = AIDS
3… they think Frank will be pretty good.
I’m going with #1 until proven differently 🙂
lol! I feel your pain.
I didn’t want Knox, but I’m less upset now than I was on draft night.
On the rebuilding forever scenario, that could easily be the case given the progress we’ve made with cap space and the mid level over the last 2 years. I’m praying Robinson turns into a defensive stud that develops more of an offensive game than just dunks. A big man rotation of KP, Vonleh, and a stud Robinson will change things quickly on the defensive end.
lowering turnovers is a very easy improvement for any player to make over their career… even mudiay has seen his tov rate drop significantly… its really a non concern and you should actually be targeting players like that…
dsjr also attacks the rim and converts… ive mentioned this countless times before but that trait is a huge filter for nba guards and frank is failing… at this point he hasnt improved and thats very concerning…. the more time goes on and he doesnt figure that out… the lower the ceiling becomes…
frank will be lucky to stick in the nba past his rookie year deal at this point… that is reality… so whatever fairy tale you might be conjuring up on what a big sexy pg he is with all these measurables… he still cant put the ball in the hoop from anywhere… he was 18 before… but now hes 20… hes not special… and every 20 yo whos had any success in this league has shown a lot more at this stage…
and yes that includes dennis….
ptmilo you make a great case for the idea that DSJ is a deeply flawed player, and likely always will be.
Having said that, has Frank shot 37% over literally any 100 3PA sample? My guess is no seeing as how he’s only had three individual months in which he reached 37% (and all on very low volume). So his supposed advantage over DSJ is that he can be effective off the ball…and yet he has shown no ability to do the most important thing off-ball players are supposed to do.
I agree that DSJ is almost certainly not a true talent 37.5% shooter, but 33% over 443 attempts at age 21 is at least a league average shooter starter kit. That’s not to mention how badly he blows Frank away when it comes to all kinds of shots inside the arc.
The turnovers are bad, but as you mention I think his AST/TO ratio this year is somewhat artificial. I don’t think he’ll ever be the primary ball handler for a good team, and I think the problem is that’s role he’ll always want (and the role he’ll hijack if it’s not given to him). The only way I could see him becoming an effective player is if he works extremely hard on his off-ball cutting/screening and spot up shooting. I think the talent might be there but the will is definitely not.
I find it highly unlikely DSJ ever overcomes his basketball IQ deficiencies and becomes a good player, but Frank has no such deficiencies and is still worse than him. As long as DSJ is still on his rookie deal I’d at least see what we could do from a development perspective because there’s definitely more to work with than there is with Frank.
What Dallas thinks of DSJ is totally irrelevant to Frank’s immense ‘suckitude’…chew on that a little bit yourself…
😮
Not only that, even if the rumor is not true, there’s a very good reason they are bailing on DSJ.
It’s because he sucks on a net basis, has been injury prone, and doesn’t fit next to Doncic.
He’s the exact kind of player this front office salivates over. Good athleticism, questionable basketball IQ, can score pointz, highly regarded coming out of the draft, sucks on defense, and sucks overall.
Just give him to Fizdale and he’ll straighten him out.
The main point of the trade would be to get rid of Hardaway’s contract. I do think Smith Jr. right now is a marginally better prospect than Frank, but neither seem to be players who should merit being re-signed after their rookie contracts, so the focus of the trade would be the amazing opportunity to dump THJ without attaching a sweetener to it. If Dallas simply wants to swap THJ for Matthews I’d be calling the league’s office to confirm the trade as soon as they offer it.
Yeah, I’d do the trade but only because of the THJ aspect of it all. Dumping him is a huge win for the Knicks.
That’s why Bob is almost certainly correct and the trade rumor is BS.
Are you questioning the Fizz Magic? Don’t you know he made Mudiay into the Chris Paul he is today? 🙂
I want to get rid of THJ as much as anyone here, but I’m not so sure I’d give up any kind of asset until I knew for sure I could put something into the cap space that swamps other considerations.
I guess it comes down to who you think will be easier to fix, Frank or DSJ.
To me, you give Frank a decent 3 point shot and he’s a player I want on my team. I’m not sure there’s any scenario that makes me want DSJ. We’d be getting a PG version of Hardaway.
I’m mixed on Fizdale.
Too many great players like him as a coach and personally for him to be an incompetent, but he has a little too much snake oil salesman in him for my taste. Optimism is fine, but so is truth.
Maybe we can trade Mudiay to Houston. They need a good backup for Paul. 🙂
If you arbitrarily give DSJ a reliable 3 point shot, he probably hits 57-58 TS% with 20 PTS/36 at his peak. Why are we just giving people things they don’t have?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/the_americas/report-turkey-seeks-warrant-for-nba-player-enes-kanter/2019/01/16/02476438-1993-11e9-b8e6-567190c2fd08_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_source=reddit.com&utm_source=reddit.com&utm_term=.67c45f466271
Tbh I haven’t watched many games this year, so I don’t understand why Frank can’t play around the rim more, especially when shooting roughly .250 from three.
He gets no rebounds and can’t draw fouls or convert near the rim.
What gives??
Is he afraid of contact? Can he actually not jump very high despite his length? Is he a “ball watcher”?
I understand that he’s still slight of build, but the total absence of secondary stats is beyond discouraging… it’s weird.
I am genuinely worried that Trump is going to try to trade Enes Kanter for some concession of sorts from Turkey that likely amounts to nothing (and it would be abhorrent even if the concession was significant).
Kinda sucks to have a President that makes you worry about this sort of thing!
Having said that, has Frank shot 37% over literally any 100 3PA sample?
i used to be able to do this in a few taps but alas…
Yeah, I’d do the trade but only because of the THJ aspect of it all. Dumping him is a huge win for the Knicks.
yeah, i would do it to dump timmy too and i also don’t believe it
Is Frank better than Toney Douglas?
Don’t drink the Fizz!
Frank for DSJ is like trading a .210 hitting outfielder for a reliever with a 5.00 ERA. It’s like trading nothing for nothing.
I like Frank a lot more than DS Jr. They’re both bad but Frank has the outline of the kind of player I like and Smith has the outline the kind of player I hate. But if I get to dump Hardaway in the process that’s too good to pass up.
One thing I do like about DS Jr is he’s a lot easier to pump and dump than Frank. If you bring him in and give him the Mudiay treatment, he will average 20+ ppg for the rest of the season (albeit with terrible peripherals). Teams like Phoenix and Orlando will likely line up to give you a good asset for him while he has 2 years remaining on his rookie deal.
I’d trade Frank for Ray Felton – wouldn’t mind our well-rounded (see that?) former pg beaching himself on our team’s desolate talent coast…
50% deer in the headlight eyes, 50% sub-par quickness/athleticism
Remember all the times Bill Walton mocked him for being the best jump-shooting Center? [Insert whiny Bill Walton voice]: “Who caaaaaares? He’s not supposed to shoot jumpers.”
Guy missed his time. He’d be Anthony Davis on steroids in the modern NBA.
What JK47 said. I’d take Frank, or unload Hardaway, but what are we talking about, they both stink. (although I am still holding out a little hope for Frank.)
Ewing took a LOT of mid-range jumpers. It frustrated me back then although he had decent touch.
You haven’t even lived 3 decades, and you’re not a Knick fan. And that’s factorial.
lol nah — he might be good, but how the hell do you get better than this?
2017-18, Davis percentile
PIPM 99th
RPM 99th
RAPM 94th
BPM 99th
VORP 98th
Possession share 99th
Opp. Rim FG% 89th
Deflections 95th
I am amazed at how hypocritical most of this board is. Not because Frank has the potential to be great – probably not, and I agree there’s a good chance he’ll be out of the league at the end of his contract. But it’s WHERE his potential lies – obviously on the defensive end. No, he hasn’t been that good there this year. But his numbers with KP are extremely encouraging, and most people agree that if he could put together any kind of reasonable offensive game (better 3P%, more penetration), he’d be a plus.
And yet most are putting out Smith’s TS, talking about his shot selection (at the rim and 3P%), and saying he has at least as much potential on that end as Frank on the defensive end. Yeah, but aside from the fact that you cannot build a good team without defense, and good defense leads to good offense (as in fast break opportunities and lower shooting percentages that lead to more high percentage offensive possessions), good offense is overrated by THIS FRONT OFFICE. We are seeing it with Mudiay – who isn’t worried they are going to offer him a multiyear deal? So you want to trade Frank for ANOTHER potential low efficiency volume scorer, who also might get a new contract from our FO that overvalues offense? Real smart. You are literally advocating for creating the same situation you are bemoaning with Mudiay.
Or even more to the point, if you’re advocating for the deal because you want to trade Timmy, you are talking about unloading an overpaid offensive player whose contract is unhelpful to building a winning team..in favor of bringing on a player who, at best, projects similarly!!
The BEST version of Smith still sucks. Having him develop would actually be BAD for us, as we’d want to pay him, and then would forever be limited by his limitations. If Frank doesn’t develop, NO ONE will pay him, and he’ll simply be gone – not a mistake we’re saddled with for years to come. Jesus.
Patrick Ewing peaked when I was around 12 and my feelings towards him today remain as irrational as everything else I felt at that age.
Getting out from under THJr.’s contract while exchanging one likely draft bust for another would be a huge win for the Knicks.
Which means it absolutely, positively will never happen.
“George Michael’s #1 smash hit ‘Faith’ is the most beautiful, moving song ever recorded. It just… really expresses the complexities of the human condition.”
Hardaway, Trier, Knox, Burke, Kanter and Mudiay are all among the worst defensive players in the NBA. We should probably try to develop some players who can play defense, or we should just trade both of them
That’s my problem with this supposed deal. I could easily see DSJr put up 20 pts a game on mediocre efficiency and see this FO give him a much higher contract than he deserves in a few years. Then he gets multiple knee surgeries during said contract so he’ll miss half the season anyways.
@44
But that’s really beside the point because Smith Jr. is a free agent in two years, so if they like him so much they will offer the huge contract anyway.
It’s not about trading an inefficient chucker for another, it’s trading one that gets paid 18 million a year and is 26 for one that’s 20 and gets paid 6 million.
Desperately trying to clear up space by trading possible future assets is the dumbest thing the Knicks can do. Package Vonleh with Timmy or Lee, not a young player under contract.
Here’s the problem:
I can see why Dallas wants Frank — the best version of Frank fits perfectly next to Luka – Frank can play low-usage secondary ballhandler and can concentrate on defense.
The best version of DSJ = what? Trey Burke? Don’t we have one of those already?
The problem with DSJ is exactly what stratomatic wrote above – flashy plays, does not affect winning. Even the best version of him = flashy plays, does not affect winning. He’s too small to be anything but a target for opposing offenses when the games get real in the spring/summer. He has a low basketball IQ and is probably not a great locker room guy.
Why does Dallas want to get rid of him? It’s either because they know he is a declining asset or because he isn’t fitting into the team structure (ie. malcontent) or both. If they thought he was good, why would they trade him at the low point of his value? Why would we want that? Just to dump Timmy’s contract?
Don’t get me wrong, I want to dump that contract as much as the next guy, but this would fall under “same old Knicks” if we jettison very recent 1st round picks to make up for a FA contract mistake.
@46 +10000
And if we can’t get rid of Timmy and Lee then so be it.
Actually – Vonleh + Courtney Lee to Dallas for Wes Matthews could be a mutually beneficial deal assuming Dallas a) wants to make the playoffs this year – Vonleh would be a huge upgrade over Max Kleber who is playing about 20 min/game; and b) they could stomach Courtney Lee’s $ for next year. As it looks they will have gigantic amounts of cap space this summer and so perhaps Courtney’s number isn’t that bad to them.
Vonleh would not be a huge upgrade over Maxi Kleber. Kleber outperforms Vonleh on every metric but RPM (and performs extremely well on PIPM):
https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Maxi+Kleber&player_id1_select=Maxi+Kleber&player_id1=klebima01&y1=2019&player_id2_select=Noah+Vonleh&y2=2019&player_id2=vonleno01&idx=players
Also, since he’s an older Euro import, he’s going to command much less money than Vonleh will in the offseason (both are UFAs). Kleber is very likely a better asset to have than Vonleh in terms of pure productivity and value per dollar over the course of their next contracts. I’m pretty sure Dallas understands this. What I don’t think they understand is that high volume chucking at subpar efficiency is bad (see: Harrison Barnes) so there might be a chance to dump Hardaway if Frank is attached (which I wouldn’t do unless we received DSJr or Jalen Brunson in return). They don’t need Vonleh. Either way, I think these rumors are unfounded.
Trading for more cap space this offseason seems like a bit of a Phil Jackson thing to do. At first glance on the rumored trade, I’d do it just to get rid of THJ. But thinking about it, a huge red flag goes up about DSJ. What kind of malcontent must he be to be unable to play alongside Doncic?
And, yeah, what would the Mills led management do with that extra cap space? Hey, look, now we can extend Mudiay 4/$48m AND have room to try to sign KD. Win-win!
The rumor is probably bs. If not, counter with Mudiay and THJ. Or Burke and THJ. Or Trier and THJ.
🙂
Subjective personal opinion based on my interpretation of the data.
1. I think there’s negative noise in Frank’s 3p% this year.
2. I think there’s positive noise in DSJs 3p% this year.
I think Frank becoming a versatile plus defender with a 3 point shot is more likely than DSJ becoming a versatile plus offensive player and decent defender (which I consider close to 0%).
We’ll have to see.
I don’t really know what PIPM is, but according to that stat we have 3 positive players. A rookie second round draft pick, an undrafted free agent, and a former lottery bust we signed for the vet minimum at the last minute.
@39
100% agree.
We all sort of know that individual defense tends to get underrated because it’s hard to get reliable data to balance against the data we do have. But even worse, imo it’s wildly underrated by our front office who prefers to give out contracts (sometimes long term) to offensive player that aren’t even very good on offense (all without any real consideration of defense other than lip service). At least a guy like D’Antoni identifies players that can shoot and then puts them in a position to succeed.
Amazing that people still think Frank can become a good player after two straight years of sucking. His numbers have declined on this second year in spite of all the heavy work he supposedly did in the offseason.
It’s not like he is an erratic player who had stretches of great play followed by stretches of bad play. He has been consistently bad. As in NBA’s worst.
The man sucks, suckers!
Timmy & Vonleh to the Rockets for Knight and filler for a future first?
I’m dropping by for a quick post…
Rumors of the Knicks trading Hardaway and Ntilikina for D Smith and Wes Matthews. This would be a no-brainer for me. Matthew’s contract is expiring. Hardaway’s isn’t. Make the trade!
A pal of mine is in the Dominican Republic on the beach (Cabarete) – says KP walked right by him. It’s hard to imagine a mistaken identity, but hey, my pal is old. His eyes might be going.
It would be a fun trade if only because Dallas seemed to love Frank before the draft, then pretended that was a fakeout because they really loved Smith, and now would probably claim it was a double fake out all along to set up a future swap so they could get the guy they wanted down the road.
@52
Agree.
Free cap space is a better asset than a bad contract, but it has to be in the right hands. I’m not in a trusting mood after Hardaway, Baker, and Hezonja. I’d like to know it’s going to be used to sign a really great player like Durant and not just to extend or sign some other player I dislike.
@46 – Agree.
New rule – Any GM that trades away picks without getting more or higher picks back will be forced to take the Cersei walk of shame down 5th Avenue. I’ll personally line up at the NY Public Library to throw rotten tomatoes at him!
If he didn’t make the trip to London he’s got 6 days off.
I agree but it’s Frank for Smith and cap space, not Frank for cap space.
Unless you think Frank is a possible future asset and Smith isn’t ( I kinda do but it’s hard to justify).
There it is, folks, the Endowment Effect
Mike D’Antoni had a pretty good defense here, even in those two garbage years before The Decision. He took one good defensive player (Jared Jefferies) and build a whole D around him. It’s why I don’t understand why, in a developmental year, Fiz didn’t focus on the one thing Frank was really good at coming into the year.
Remember it all started in game 2 with that hair-brained decision to let Hardaway guard LeVert, which was justified by the worst thought process ever: “I put the team in a bad position to win bc I would never do Tim Hardaway Jr dirty like that.”
That was the first time I realized something was amiss with this guy.
Personally I’ve watched a lot of Mavs games this year — maybe like parts of five or six of them — and I can tell you that Dennis Smith, Jr. is definitely an NBA player. Not, like, that he belongs in the NBA, but that he has been on an NBA roster for at least five or six games.
You know DSJ ranks solidly ahead of Frank in just about every defensive metric- DBPM, PiPM, and RPM, better DFG%, more deflections etc… I still think Frank is probably the better defender but I don’t think there’s a world of difference. On most nights any point guard with a decent crossover seems to have no trouble breezing right by Frank, no pick needed. He gets lost off of the ball too often and fouls way too much. There’s the idea that he’s better than his advanced stats- that his unselfishness on offense and great defense don’t show up in the box score- but he’s tied with Knox for the worst net rating on the team so it’s not showing up on the scoreboard either. I’d agree with posters who want no part of DSJ because even if he improves he’s likely to make more than he’s actually worth because pointz but at the moment I’d say he’s a solidly better prospect than Frank.
but his wingspan
Why isn’t Ntilikina digesting all the film he can of this guy?
I just love the way he talks about defense
I’m aware of biases that can occur because of original conviction or attachment. I’ll concede it’s possible that my assertion about “noise” could contain some bias, but it’s not off the cuff. I think there’s data to support.
Frank was a decent 3p shooter in France, he’s had oddly poor results shooting from the corner this year after being good last year, his FT shooting is improving, and his general mental state is suspect because of the way he’s been handled (even less confidence).
Dennis Smith’s 2nd year jump in 3p% looks greater than average. When combined with record in college I think it might not be sustainable.
So let’s put it this way.
If you made the under/over each of their own current 3p% and gave me even money, I’d take the Over on Frank and the Under on DSJ for the rest of the season. I think I’d have the best of that bet even if I wind up being wrong.
@69 – It sounds like all the stuff Clyde talks about. Maybe the team should just watch and listen to the broadcasts?
Funny Ewing story I just came across on a Jerry Garcia blog.
11/07/81 McDonough Arena, Georgetown University JGB
Here are a few notes from those three shows, all which seemed normal and not fitting any distinct pattern that I could see at the time.
11/7/81 – Garcia changed his shoes after the first number to what looked like cowboy boots. Weird. Patrick Ewing and teammates entered the gym through a side entrance dressed like they were going to practice. Our seats were right above the door so we had a good view. they looked at the swirling mass and smoke and Ewing literally scratched his head and they left.
No metric can explain the Grateful Dead….
i didn’t really understand what timmy’s 15% kicker meant…i thought it basically was that whichever team he got traded to would owe him 15% additional to his salary – not so…
came across this article which helps explain the situation:
https://knicksfilmschool.com/2019/01/16/explain-how-tim-hardaway-jrs-trade-kicker-works/
The team who trades the player is responsible for paying the bonus, while the receiving team is responsible for the cap hit that includes the trade kicker.
The trade kicker amount is split evenly between the remaining seasons on his contract, excluding option years. This means if the Knicks find a trade partner this February, only $1.8 million would be added to Tim Hardaway Jr’s 2018-19 salary as part of the trade kicker, with the remaining $1.8 million applied to his 2019-20 salary.
In short, trading Tim Hardaway Jr. at the deadline would only add about $1.8 million in salary considerations to make a trade work. Not a big deal.
basically, from what i understand – we 🙂 – write him a check for 3.6 mil and the accepting team owes him his base plus whatever percentage increase (based on his salary deprecation)…
not that we’re ever gonna really trade him…when was the last trade we executed? the mudiay thing?
Meanwhile, in the real world, this morning a group of pranksters printed and distributed fake copies of the Washington Post, with a front page detailing Trump’s resignation.
The Mexican government immediately dispatched a caravan of diplomats to the border to negotiate a new immigration agreement, including the construction of several strategically placed poncho distribution centers near El Paso, Texas.
Life is beautiful.
Conservative humor, always so rib-tickling
I’m as far from conservative as you can get.
Not into stupid political analysis where all the fury is directed at Trump, when it’s congress where corruption lives and where a real difference can be made. Trump is the lump on people’s necks. Congress is the cancer killing the entire country.
I don’t know why some people are viewing that potential Dallas trade as a salary dump with sweetener. I obviously would be very against any trade like that.
It would be a salary dump and we’d be getting back the better asset. I mean, there’s just no conceivable way to argue that Frank Ntilikina is a more valuable asset than Dennis Smith Jr. When you try to do so, you end up sounding like this:
stop lying, you just want to see Scott Perry naked
I think it’s easy to lump Frank and DSJ into a “disappointing second year PG” basket and then the tiebreaker becomes that even the theoretical good version of DSJ is the kind of player that most people on this board (myself included) really don’t like, i.e. all scoring while the theoretically good version of Frank is the kind of player we mostly do like, i.e. a hard-nosed defensive-minded efficient role player.
However what that obscures is that DSJ is much, much better than Frank right now by any measure you care to use. The big red flag to me is that I don’t think Frank is actually good on defense this year. The stats don’t think so and he certainly hasn’t passed my eye test. The entire theory of Frank at this point is completely dependent on the idea that he’s going to be excellent defensively because I don’t think anyone holds out much hope that he he has offensive upside beyond “not unplayably bad”. So the fact that he’s going backwards on that end is hugely concerning to me. I think turning Frank into DSJ would be a great move just from an asset management perspective.
Point of attack defensive PGs aren’t really as important as they used to be. Nowadays you want good switchable defenders on the wings and rim protecting bigs with enough mobility to guard stretch 4’s and 5’s. Frank does seem like he’d be a good switchable defender, but he’s so putrid on offense that it really doesn’t matter.
We like our little Frankie because we drafted him and he’s lived in our hopes and dreams for a while but he’s a fringe prospect at this point. I’d say he’s a Grade D prospect, like a 30/80 prospect if you were using the MLB scale.
Frank bums me out. I don’t believe he has forgotten how to play defense. I still believe I saw him play good D last year. But yeah, he has been horrible. It’s honestly a bummer. I enjoyed watching him last year.
LOL. I don’t, really.
@78 – Whether or not Dennis Smith Jr is better than Frank Ntilikina is totally irrelevant – as I said, I want the cap space.
However, since you went down this road, it’s interesting that the stats will tell you that Smith is better but why would Dallas want to get rid of him? The answer is that he’s ball-dominant and can’t play with Doncic. Will he play better with KP and Knox? Which player makes THEM better? Frank or Dennis?
The Daily News is reporting Philly wants Vonleh.
I think we’re going to have to trade him if we want to move Courtney Lee or Tim Hardaway Jr
If Frank were on another team and it came out that we were considering trading anything of even remote value for him (including a second round pick), everyone here would be losing their god damn minds. That would be the correct reaction.
I’m against all trades in which we attach sweetener to move money, but it would be hard to get excited about using Vonleh as sweetener. His contract status makes him barely an asset for us, if at he is at all.
Vonleh would be perfect with KP next year, but since all we got out of the contract we gave him is the opportunity to showcase him, may as well trade him and get some value out of it.
Bubble teams could use him or Kanter. Maybe enough that we can deal at least one of our bad contracts.
You know who the perfect pairing for Porzingis is?
Zion.
And if we trade Vonleh we can just sign him in the off season.
Watching Frank this year and last year, it seems to me that he played as the two or the three a lot more this year than last year, and when he was a two or three he contributed almost nothing on offense. On the other hand, when he played the one this year he looks better than last year, at least on offense. Since he played off ball a lot so far this year, that could account for worse stats, especially since playing off ball means he gets guarded by a two or three instead of a one. This is good news and bad news if true (and I would love to see statistics sorted by what position he played this year). It means he is improving, but it also means you have to play him at point guard, which many people do not want to do.
The thing about Vonleh is that his value is coming from two aspects of his game mostly: rebounding, which has always been there, and 3p% which is a very recent development. If his 3 pt shooting goes down, he’ll be just an undersized rebounder who can defend decently, which is the profile of a player no team is looking for. Montrezl Harrell, which is probably the best guy currently in the NBA that fits this archetype didn’t get pretty much any offers and came back for a bargain to the Clippers. So I’m not against re-signing Vonleh at a similar deal that Harrell got, but I also won’t lose much sleep if we trade him for a 2nd rounder or use him to dump a worse contract.
My guess is Philly saw tape of him guarding Giannis and though he might pay dividends against the Bucks. I’d be okay with using Vonleh as a sweetener to move Lee or Hardaway. If it’s just Vonleh being moved I’d want two good second rounders (like our 2020 pick!) or a first. If its a single second I’d just as soon keep him as I think that increases the likelihood he resigns here.
Despite Harden scoring 50 points every two games, I have to say that Houston is one of the most boring teams I have ever watch.
It’s just a bunch of guys making side passes and shooting 3pters…
If Frank is “sweetener” he’s like Stevia or something. I’m ready for him to go. I know we’re not supposed to blame individual players for a teams shitty play but wouldn’t he have won us like one game ever? You know 10 assists, 20 points, big plays down the stretch? He’s just not shown anything. I’d be way more disappointed to see Vonleh go, but the main point is this. With a little luck, and you know you need luck, you get rid of THJ, who I fucking hate, and get KD, Kyrie, Zion and KP in our uniform next year.
No one has earned a job on a team that’s 10-32
If we get rid of THJ can we fit KD and Kyrie in?
Certainly both of them would be more likely than just one. If we draft 1st and get Zion, them dominoes could start to fall. Getting rid of Hardaway’s deal would be so huge, not having Frank would be a minimal price to pay. He’s not a draft pick…
this rockets Nets game is insane
I love Dinwiddie, he was a monster tonight. If the Nets are as smart as they seem to be they’ll hand him the PG position and send Russell packing. Allen was also amazing, 20/24 with 3 blocks, what a player he’s becoming.
Harden was a monster too. 58 points on 34 shots along with 10 rebounds and 6 assists.
Kind of enjoyable seeing all of Boston’s assets being devalued this year. Tatum is coming back to earth, Brown and Rozier are having pretty awful seasons and the Sacramento pick will probably be in the mid teens. Also, lots of turmoil with Kyrie, my Celtics fan friend up in Boston says a lot of fans don’t want him back. And even the second coming of Red Auerbach, Boy Brad, is being second guessed.
Love it!
Or maybe that just makes it worse when those are still the assets they send out to get Anthony Davis 🙁