[NYTimes] Mark Cuban’s Terrible 24 Hours Now Includes a $600,000 Fine (Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:59:57 PM)
The Mavericks had already announced an investigation into accusations of misconduct by a former team president when the team’s owner was fined for admitting losing on purpose.
[NYTimes] Mavericks Begin Investigation After Misconduct Allegations (Wednesday, February 21, 2018 8:39:44 AM)
A report by Sports Illustrated detailed accusations against Terdema Ussery, the team’s former president and chief executive, as well as a toxic work environment for women.
[SNY Knicks] Mudiay hints he may be in Knicks’ starting lineup after All-Star break (Wednesday, February 21, 2018 6:29:43 PM)
Newly-acquired point guard Emmanuel Mudiay hinted he may be in the Knicks’ starting lineup when New York returns from the All-Star break on Thursday against the Orlando Magic.
[SNY Knicks] Hornacek tired of hearing questions on Joakim Noah (Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:44:51 AM)
Don’t ask Jeff Hornacek anymore questions about Joakim Noah. That is in the past.
[SNY Knicks] Knicks agree with former Rockets F Troy Williams on 10-day contract (Wednesday, February 21, 2018 9:45:24 AM)
The deal was agreed upon on Monday night.
(Wednesday, February 21, 2018 3:16:25 PM)
Jeff Hornacek sat down with Emmanuel Mudiay at the end of the point guard’s second practice as a Knick. Mudiay wasn’t done with his workout though. He still had some sprints to run.
[NYDN] Sounds like Mudiay will be Knicks starting point guard vs. Magic (Wednesday, February 21, 2018 9:43:15 PM)
It’s not official yet and Jeff Hornacek wouldn’t confirm, but it sounds like Emmanuel Mudiay will be the starting point guard Thursday.
(Wednesday, February 21, 2018 10:38:50 PM)
Hey, you want an athlete, go sign a dunk contest winner. So the Knicks did. Troy Williams, a listed 6-foot-7 small forward recently released by the Rockets, officially signed his 10-day contract with the Knicks on Wednesday and practiced with the team in Tarrytown. Among the items on Williams’ résumé is the 2017 D-League Dunk…
(Wednesday, February 21, 2018 3:33:28 PM)
The plan all along was develop and grow. Then the Knicks did the darndest thing. They won. But that didn’t last. Reality, injuries and a schedule that made them leave the Garden occasionally kicked in — and kicked them in the butt. So 23 games remain while phrases like “likely won’t be back” or “coaching…
(Wednesday, February 21, 2018 11:56:29 AM)
The formal part of Knicks practice was over Wednesday. Some players hoisted shots, some did interviews on camera. Off to the side, coach Jeff Hornacek huddled with Emmanuel Mudiay, who at the end of the talk put in additional running. On Tuesday night, Mudiay worked often with the first unit, a task he repeated the…
77 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.02.22)”
Hey, the young’uns have to earn their minutes!
FUCK OFF FIRE HORNY LIKE NOW
If we win tonite in Orlando I’m officially on board with firing horny
Without KP anchoring the defense and with Mudiay as the starting PG, I don’t think this team is going to win too many games even if they are trying. It’s hard to imagine, but removing Jack from the starting lineup is actually a tank move on this team. I’m hoping Mudiay plays well and we still lose, but I think we are going to have some serious problems on defense.
Kanter Lee thjr and Beas all need to get 40 mins… combined.
@1 So you’d rather start Jack? 🙂
I’d rather have Frankie start, but Hornacek made references on his knee bothering him.
I’m curious to see playing time distribution tonight.
And I’m a little bit worried that playing the youngsters could be a risk for the tanking, at least for energy and hustle.
Orlando, Sacramento and Dallas are the games that we could win just by accident.
Orlando with vucevic and Gordon back should be a tough battle to lose.
Max, if Frank is hurt then ok. I might be a little biased against Hornacek now (after that Washington shitfest), but I fear Hornacek will start Mudiay even when Frank is healthy.
I agree, he will start Mudiay even if Frank is fully healty and I think the FO (that acquired this “lottery ticket”) has something to do with it.
BTW, I don’t think it make sense to fire Hornacek now, especially if Rambis will become interim coach.
Let’s wait two months and clear house.
Meanwhile, do they buyout Noah before March 1st?
Minnesota’s waiting 🙂
I don’t know, it really sends the wrong message to play the old guys. I agree that Rambis is a worse coach than Horny, but it’s all about accountability in my eyes.
@6
Will they actually play? The tank season is definitely on, the Bulls even brought Cameron Payne back. This is gonna be a shitshow.
We always tend to ascribe great team success to the coaches, such as Pop, and I accepted that hypothesis uncritically until I read a book called “The Captain Class”. Now I think it may have been Duncan who held the team together and made it great.
By the way, the book is recent, worth reading and thought provoking.
Even with the Bulls benching Rolo and Holiday they should still pass us with their schedule.
RHJ/Levert will be back for the Nets soon and as mentioned Vuc/Gordon will be back tonight.
On another matter, I can see Hornacek rotating Mudiay and Frank as starters to give them both a chance to see what they can do
There are some subtle (or not so) messages in Hornacek’s last comments that had me thinking that the FO is using him as a scapegoat for everything, knowing that they’ll fire him at season’s end.
@11
This Kawhi story is very strange. Well, people change…
@5
We have lose those three games.
It could determine a few draft spots.
Kawhi being portrayed as robotic made it seem like he was gonna be a Spur for life.
Maybe he just wants to break out of that and be a Superstar in a bigger market.
@16 I’m not saying we must win them,
only that the other teams are so bad
(and as intent on tanking as we are)
that we “risk” to win those games just by playing.
@17 I agree, something has changed in Kawhi, not in the Spurs. I was listening to a podcast and if I remember correctly they said he had a new marketing team supporting him, but I can be wrong.
Hornacek is absolutely a lame duck, and I see no problem with that. I just think he’s going to try to win games with veterans (also ok with that because our vets suck) but this will send a troubling message for the development of young players.
Come on guys, the Spurs can’t change like that. They have the same Coach-GM combo since 1997, Tony and Manu are still there, the structure is still in place. I agree with Max, Kawhi is changing. That’s why we should welcome him here lulz
Can someone please post a link to the Kawhi story?
That’s exactly what I’m referring to.
In the comments he said “we (him, FO and Dolan) talked about it a lot, we wanted to win as many games as possible.”
He seems to be pointing at the fact that he was “ordered” to win.
But clearly I’m speculating, I hope he’ll play the youngsters more from now on (but don’t expect less THJ, he’s “part of the future” and Mills’ crown jewel).
http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/22534114/kawhi-leonard-san-antonio-spurs-elects-returning-active-roster
Well, there’s just so much we don’t know in this Kawhi story. We all just assumed he was this guy fully committed to the Spurs way, but for all we know he might be angling for an exit or the injury could still simply be bothering him psychologically.
It was always going to be hard to keep going after Duncan retired, as somehow his impact is still underrated around the league, but I expected them to keep going strong for at least a couple more seasons. It’s a shame because the combination of Gasol, Danny Green and Patty Mills contracts really stop them from having any flexibility to make moves for next year, and right after that Leonard can opt out.
has a team ever attempted to stop paying a player who refused to play for injury reasons despite medical clearance?
Thanks Max
I don’t think the kawhi story is very big… It goes without saying that the player has final say on their health and whether they are healthy enough to play…. he just has a weird injury that probably got misdiagnosed…. if he doesn’t feel fine and everyone’s telling him he is then that’s going to naturally going to cause some worry on kawhi’s part… I wouldn’t believe anything unless it’s actually coming out of kawhi’s mouth….
This is probably woj stirring the pot for some apparent reason… probably lack of access to leaks from the FO…. Whenever there’s an overly negative… or positive… commentary coming from him… I would be highly suspicious of his motivations…. he’s proven throughout his career that he has no qualms with going on the offensive to gain power(see Lebron articles)….
Yes but anyway Pop came out saying Kawhi might not play another game for the year. It’s not just Woj loudmouthing, there has to be more.
@26 My pleasure 🙂
@28 Yes, and it’s only my impression or Pop seems a bit “tired” of this back and forth?
Not to mention that Aldridge is a good player, but imo is getting paid more than he’s worth for quite a few more years too. I’d want out if I was Kawhi. Their main players are old, getting older, and it’s going to be really tough to rebuild out of the position they have maneuvered into. Kawhi is 26. This is his peak window. I’d want to go to a younger team and not sit through that slow decline and rebuild.
That might be the most telling hint. I mean, Pop was able to change his mind in a positive way about a lot of the guys who at first didn’t fit his basketball views or his work ethic if they proved him wrong, so he’s not an old curmudgeon who hates hard situations. I thìnk that he’s seeing this thing through and he went public so to shift the blame on Kawhi, and if Pop did this I feel like there’s some bad influence behind Leonard.
You know how boys who stay quiet and avoid trouble during their teenage years sometimes wind up with a rebel nature during their PhD? It might be the same thing here.
I mean fultz has a similar issue…. he had an issue… he’s medically cleared to play…. but he’s not playing…
kawhi’s situation is different in that he doesn’t have confidence in the leg .. and probably a misdiagnosis… that’s a far leap to say that he doesn’t trust the organization as a whole….
if you play close attention to how woj phrases the negative parts… it’s coming from ‘league sources’…. which is another way of saying people outside the spurs’ organization…. another gm who he has a closer relationship for example… is feeding him some rumor which may be manufactured or not… but it’s at best second hand info….
The Spurs are the gold standard organization in professional sports. They’ll figure this one out. We need to figure out how to land Michael Porter Jr and RJ Barrett.
Kawhi in a Knicks uniform playing alongside KP and Frank would be an elite defense with 2 primary scoring options (not to mention who we might add the next 2 years). That team would be killer for years!
Most of us instantly dismissed when Jalen Rose came out last month and said Kawhi wanted out of San Antonio… now it seems much more interesting.
I remember him mentioning that Kawhi is distant and disconnected from the team, and doesn’t feel good about the Spurs chances of landing big free agents. It does make a lot of sense. They keep finding these useful players like Dejounte Murray, Kyle Anderson and David Bertans to play roles, but unless at least one of those finds actually turns into a star (like Parker and Ginobili did) it’s going to be super hard to keep up with the top level of competition when the Rockets can attract Chris Paul or the Warriors with KD or wherever Lebron goes next.
@34
I would pretty much trade every player on the Knicks roster for him and some picks, but I guess that’s also true for more than half of the teams in this league, so yeah…
Strat, you keep talking as though KP is coming back OK. For all we know, he never again plays at an elite level. That’s unlikely, but at least as likely as him coming back just as strong or better. Most likely is that he comes back slightly diminished physically. I think he’s smart enough that he can make that work, potentially even to his benefit as a less-mobile 5, but it is far from certain.
As it is less than certain Frank ever becomes more than a 3 and D wing. Again, I think the odds are in his favor – I am a believer (partially because I love D) – but we don’t know.
So it’s entirely possible the Knicks future right now is…Timmy Hardaway Jr. Would that be enough to draw Kawhi?
KP and a first for Kawhi sounds good (it’ll never come to this, other teams will be able to offer more if push comes to shove).
I’m not excited about paying a King’s Ransom for Kawhi Leonard unless I knew he was healthy. After that, I’d be willing to trade damn near everything just so that Danny Ainge couldn’t have him.
KP is liked around the league by many players young and old. He’s a draw assuming we have the cap space to capitalize on it.
That wouldn’t be enough to draw Chris Duhon. 🙂
I understand the risks with KP and Frank. Maybe it’s denial or wishful thinking on my part, but I think the probabilities are fairly high that KP comes back as good as new (or at least without noticeable difference).
If I had to bet, I’d say Frank is going to be one of those 3 and D guys that also contributes on the boards and as a play maker. He’s not going to make many highlight reels and won’t be a major scorer, but the advanced stats community is going to like him. It may just take a few years. That’s my bet.
Kwai wold ever ever play here for a rebuild…
Kawaii aint coming here for Frank,KP….. We might have had a chance if it was donovan mitchell, thjr, mikal bridges and KP. Add Kawaii to that and you got a contender in the east. Now i don’t know who we draft this year but he better be special for us to have a chance at Kawaii
It’s amazing how many people look so much smarter when one of the greatest athletes of all time is around.
@44, Garnett’s Timberwolves and Anthony Davis’ Pelicans would like a word with you.
I’m not trying to open the debate up again about tanking vs. not tanking. I just had this random thought last night about The Clippers (cause I’m gonna go see them play the Knicks next Friday).
They’ve really done quite well for themselves all things considered. Lob City gave them 4 years of good 50 win basketball. Never got past the second round BUT considering CP3 leaving could have meant being horrible again, here they are right outside the playoff picture in the west. They got a good haul for both CP3 and Blake and now have picks, some decent young players, DeAndre Jordan and their cap situation is far more manageable going forward. Are they poised to become contenders? Probably not. But they are poised to remain a good team that wins more games than they lose and makes the playoffs most years. Considering what a joke they were before CP3, I would say that’s pretty darn good.
It got me thinking. Yes, I want us to be contenders. But really man I would just be so happy if we could become a team that wins anywhere from 40 to 55 games a year and makes the playoffs every year. Some people say that is purgatory in the NBA but after 17 years of losing, I would take that purgatory in a heartbeat. Yes, tanking to get a higher draft pick is probably the way to go when you’re at the bottom of the barrel but once you claw your way up to respectability, I think its far easier to stay in that respectable area and possibly jump up to contender status than it is to become a contender when you suck. Trades and free agent signings are not made in a vaccum. When you suck and consistently suck, there is so much pressure to not suck anymore, which leads to dumber decisions. Once you’re respectable or even just average, I think the decisions you make regarding free agents and trades are less driven by panic and therefore more likely to work out.
Why would Kawhi ever leave SA in search of a better basketball situation? Yes they lack cap flexibility, but they’re the best coached and most stable organization in the league. Pretty much anywhere he goes will be a step down in the long run.
@44
With Kawhi playing 9 games (on a minutes restriction), a lot of smaller injuries and Pop’s trademark resting policy the Spurs are tied for third in the east and seventh in the League.
It would be nice for the Knicks to be so un-smart.
@48 It’s West obviously,
damn Ipad T9… 🙂
From all indications, Kawhi Leonard is now being managed by his uncle and that’s when the headaches started. While Greg Poppovich has LaMarcus Aldridge playing his best basketball ever, Kawhi’s uncle has been sowing whatever seeds of division between the game’s best two way player and the country’s best sports organization.
I think Kawhi wants to win championships and wants to be on an odds-on favorite and not the league’s perennial darkhorse candidate. The injury situation is weird, but I wouldn’t be able to blame the guy for wanting to get in on a superteam. The only thing is Kawhi Leonard, LaMarcus Aldridge, and Gregg Poppovich is without doubt a super team and they’d be on pace for 60 wins if Kawhi was healthy. Maybe we’re reading too much into this, but one thing for sure is he won’t be joining the Knicks. Leaving the Spurs to join the Knicks would be a textbook example of culture shock and they’d be teaching about it in schools.
I really hope the Banana Boat mentality has not crept into KL’s thinking. If so, get set for rumors that he’d like to play for Golden State or Houston…and before you get excited about the Knicks being able to acquire him, there are much more creative front offices out there, esp. in Boston and Cleveland.
I’m fine with Mudiay starting. I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Frank is having nagging knee issues, etc. I just hope that he can get 20+ minutes per game the rest of this year, and that he still gets plenty of time at the 1 so that he can continue to work on his handle and passing.
Burke needs 20+ minutes as well.
@46 If Jerry West is making the decisions for the Clippers and he hangs around for awhile, they are going to become contenders again fairly quickly. They lost an all time great PG and had all sorts of injuries this year, but like you said, they aren’t even that bad this year. If they are healthier next year they are going to be very good and West will continue making smart moves to make them better. If I was a Clipper fan I would not be upset.
Hard to see our young guards and wings getting the minutes i’d like to see tonight. With Hardaway and Lee, it’s hard to find real rotation minutes for all of Williams, Dotson and all three PGs assuming some 2pg lineups. 144 minutes at guard/wing available – how do people think they’ll get divided?
I think it’s inevitable Hardaway plays starter mins – and I guess I can accept that if we’re serious about developing the longer term team as he is clearly part of it. Lee is tougher – I feel really bad for him as he’s a good player and pro and deserves minutes on a good team. But in truth, we should probably sit him down completely at this point. Tough situation to manage in the locker-room though unless Lee actively calls for it (and he may be smart/grown up enough to do that).
@ 52 – it gives me hope although they did get rid of Sterling and we still have Dolan. 🙁
We just need some stability and respectability. You gotta crawl before you can walk and if we could become a team that gets 40 plus wins a year and make the playoffs most years, I think it would take A LOT of the pressure off the organization and they could make wiser decisions that are more long term. The problem is that even when people have come in with plans to think more long term (Donnie and Phil…and I’m not defending them), after a few seasons the panic sets in and rash moves are made to rush along a rebuild.
Kawhi apparently has the same degenerative tendonitis as Danny Granger did.
On to Giannis 2021 it is.
@55 Wow, if true it’s really a bad news 🙁
I wrote off the entire Isiah era as incompetence, but I wish I was a fly on the wall in some of the meetings that took place after that so I could at least understand the decisions that were made by otherwise smart basketball people.
But the Clippers are an incredibly peculiarly case.
From 2000 to 2011 they had one single winning season, they sucked and botched picks and shot themselves on the foot a million times and ended up getting Griffin as a reward, plus Eric Gordon and Aminu, the two top ten pick guys they eventually traded for Paul in the weirdest deal that might or might not have been engineered by the league.
So their core became a 1st overall guy, Paul (acquired with two top 10 pick guys + another unprotected pick as an asset) + DeAndre, which was a great 2nd round find.
Yes, they have a good team with young promising players, but all of those came in the Paul and Griffin trades, guys who wouldn’t even be on their roster if it wasn’t for the 1st overall pick + the other players they got from the top 10 in Gordon and Aminu.
Even then, it took one of the most respected and bright front office guys ever to gather the assets they have right now.
Yes, I would rather be in the Clippers situation now, but as it happens pretty much every time, it came from sucking badly and taking advantage of the draft, and then when they had the assets, using them properly.
I’m guessing Kawahi got a second opinion that told him it’s riskier than the Spurs did for him long term to not come back this season, because he’s under contract for one more year and then hits free agency. If he comes back next year and plays well he’ll get a max contract where ever he wants. If he gets injured again this year and has to miss most of next year maybe he won’t get max money at whatever team he wants to go to. That’s really the only scenario that makes sense tome
@58
Many teams that are good now sucked at some point and wound up with a fortunate pick in the draft or used their pick in a great trade.
The question is whether you should deliberately try to get worse to get yourself into that position or try to go forward from wherever it is you are now. That’s where it get trickier and depends on the details.
Some of the teams that are bad now will stay bad for a very long time despite all their lottery picks and some of the teams that are in the middle right now will make 1 great deal or 1 lucky draft pick in the late teens or 2nd round and turn around quickly.
I think it was 2 weeks ago I was arguing that the Cavs might be better off blowing up their team, taking what they can get for their better players, and starting over. They had 1 good trade deadline and now it appears they will be tough this year in the east and are in decent shape for a relatively quick turnaround even if James leaves.
Setting aside how the Clippers got good originally, when Paul left people were laughing that they signed Griffin to his huge deal and also signed Gallo. People thought they were doomed to mediocrity now and then would get worse long term. But the deals they have done have kept them relevant now and positioned them better long term. And you can just sort of sense that West will make another deal that will come out of the woodwork and make them better short and long term in the off season.
The trick is competent management. Bad teams with bad management tend to stay bad.
DeAndre Jordan is third in the league in wins produced after finishing in the top two for four straight years. That’s why they’re not completely awful. The logo isn’t going to look nearly as smart when Jordan leaves. It was gross malpractice even to have been in the position to make the Paul and Griffin deals in the first place.
Strato, that’s precisely the point. The Clippers, like our own Knicks, wasted a decade of sucking by having terrible management. The Clippers, unlike the Knicks so far, came upon real assets from the last years of these sucking years and then, now with good management, are turning it around. It doesn’t change the fact that not one move of good management they’ve done would have been possible without the assets to actually do them.
Good management without assets and talent is pretty damn hard to do. Bad management sometimes lucks out with talent (see Cavaliers, Cleveland).
The Knicks have bad management and they probably will as long as Dolan is the head clown of the circus.
We definitely agree on the bad management part. 🙂
We have no choice at all but to hope Perry is good.
“it gives me hope although they did get rid of Sterling and we still have Dolan. :(”
Yeah, about that…….
There are soooooooo many reasons for the knicks not to tank this season.
And one reason to tank – a slightly better pick. Maybe.
The knicks are picking 9 -11 in the draft.
Here’s the irony. The same people who want to tank all have different opinions about who the knicks should pick in that slot, or don’t even have an opinion.
That’s not even vaguely ironic. Like, not even slightly.
It’s more Alanis Morissette ironic.
I am not sure I subscribe to the fire Hornacek crowd at this stage. I think the MO and goal at the start of the year was playoffs, which was probably an incorrect evaluation of where the team was actually at. It became pretty clear that because of this, coaching decisions were made on the basis of trying to win as much as possible; which meant playing the vets rather than letting the kids take their lumps. I would really like to see how he goes in a situation like his first year or so in Phoenix where there was minimal expectation and he was free to coach without restraint. I don’t think he has been given that opportunity here yet (triangle debacle year one, misconceived playoff push this year). I say let him coach out the last year of his deal. If we suck, then whatever, we give ourselves a good shot at a top pick.
Future Knick Michael Porter Jr has been cleared by his doctor for basketball activity. We need to be tanking at an all time velocity.
@Al_Iannazzone
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Mudiay will start tonight
I generally agree that Horny has been hamstrung by executive incompetence in both of his first two seasons as the coach of the Knicks (talk about bad luck – they were different executives each time – then again, he is coaching for the Knicks, so executive incompetence is sort of the default state of affairs here). However, at this point, I’m actually more interested in the Knicks not cutting Noah than I am in seeing Horny get a “no expectations” third season, so I’d just as soon get rid of Horny in the hopes of maybe getting Noah to come back.
I just really, really don’t want to see the Knicks punt two seasons of Noah’s contract. Not when he can probably still play a little. It’s just so, so stupid.
There are just soooooo many. Like, too many to even begin naming them.
This…is a great reason to tank. There are many different directions we could go in this draft and we shouldn’t deprive ourselves of any of them for no benefit.
That’s an interesting point you raise I hadn’t thought of. I guess from a financial perspective for ownership and cap implications, it would probably be easier to let Horny go and payout the final $15 million on his contract than to stretch Noah. Seems like based on recent comments Noah isn’t likely to come back, but watch this space I guess.
Well, if Hornacek can’t be a good coach in a dysfunctional mess of a franchise, we better fire him anyway since he’s clearly not a fit for the Knicks then.
It would just be eating $5 million, right? By the way, how in the world is Jeff Hornacek getting paid $5 million a year? They wouldn’t go to $6 million for Steve Kerr, but they’re paying Horny $5 million? This organization is so crazily incompetent.
I think Noah might just be done as a Knick period, but he’s definitely done for as long as Horny is still here. So I’d just as soon move on and see if Noah might be able to be convinced to return for a new coach. The idea of punting on, what, $40 million worth of Noah’s contract? It’s so aggravating. He’s vastly overpaid, but Noah can still actually play a little! They might actually get a team to take him as an expiring if he proves he can play the next couple of years and if he is not that good, who cares, they’re trying to lose!
Yep. My apologies. $15 mill was the whole contract for the 3 years.
I think there’s potentially some other factors involved. On a purely business front, the idea of bringing Noah back for financial reasons (i.e. at least getting something of value back for what he is being paid) makes sense, but I think you also need to take into account what impact that will have on the rest of the team. It probably doesn’t mean a lot, but if the current group of guys (more importantly the young guys) like playing for Hornacek, then what impact will his firing have just to potentially appease Noah have? Not saying that would be the be all and end all reason he gets moved of course, but maybe something worth considering.
I still think the Knicks won the Melo deal primarily because the alternative was probably a buyout via Phil Jackson. At least this way we got a nice 2nd round pick. But in some ways that deal was a disaster.
It hurt Willy’s playing time and trade value and ultimately lead to him being traded for less than most of us thought he was worth.
It caused this blowout with Noah that has probably eliminated any chance we had of moving him as part of a deal either now or as an expiring contract. To which I’ll add, I’m not even entirely convinced he’s not our best C when he’s healthy.
Management seems to like Kanter and may wind up overpaying him again.
I like that Chicago 2nd round pick and McBuckets helped give us a cheap free roll on Mudiay, but boy did that deal create a mess. Let’s hope the same thing doesn’t happen at PG.
I suspect we value Jordan a little differently. I think he’s a very good player, but nowhere near the 3rd best in the league on Wins. In any event, the mess with Paul was a Doc Rivers issue. It had nothing to do with West. The deal they got for Paul was pretty good under the circumstances.