(Friday, February 02, 2018 10:47:27 PM)
MILWAUKEE — Enes Kanter seems to play better with a stitched-up mouth. He had another monstrous double-double outing Friday night, with 17 points and 18 rebounds, keeping the Knicks in the game throughout before Giannis Antetokounmpo’s game-winner in the Bucks’ 92-90 victory. Kanter has had 18 stitches sewn into his mouth since Monday, making it…
(Friday, February 02, 2018 5:55:38 PM)
MILWAUKEE — Giannis Antetokounmpo lived up to his “Greek Freak’’ moniker. Tim Hardaway Jr. was just freakishly bad. Ever since the Knicks released his brother Thanasis, Antetokounmpo has tortured them — and he did so again Friday night with a last-second, spinning driving lefty layup over Enes Kanter to give the Bucks a 92-90 victory…
(Friday, February 02, 2018 12:06:17 PM)
MILWAUKEE — Kristaps Porzingis is saving his boasts for All-Star Saturday. After deciding to return to the All-Star Skills challenge, Porzingis believes he’s got a great shot at defending his 2017 crown in Los Angeles. Of course, Joel Embiid may have something to say about that. “I have to protect my title, I have to…
(Friday, February 02, 2018 7:51:55 AM)
MILWAUKEE — The Knicks made it official with exiled Joakim Noah — he’ll be away for a long while. A team official said Noah and the team have “mutually agreed’’ he “won’t be back with the team until further notice.” This isn’t hard to figure. Along with his feud with Jeff Hornacek over lack of…
(Friday, February 02, 2018 6:15:31 AM)
From Brooklyn to Beijing, it’s been quite a ride for Stephon Marbury. The Coney Island native is finally retiring from basketball at the end of the season just a few days before his 41st birthday, Marbury told The Undefeated. He has spent the past eight seasons playing in the Chinese Basketball Association. “One hundred percent,”…
[SNY Knicks] Antetokounmpo nails last-second shot to defeat Knicks, 92-90 (Friday, February 02, 2018 10:45:00 PM)
Giannis Antetokounmpo not only dropped 29 points, but he hit the game-winning layup to defeat the Knicks, 92-90, in Milwaukee.
[SNY Knicks] Tonight’s game: Knicks at Bucks, 8 p.m. (Friday, February 02, 2018 7:00:00 PM)
MILWAUKEE — Facing a short-handed Bucks squad would be good news for the Knicks, who would like to get back on track after snapping a two-game winning streak with a 30-point loss Wednesday at Boston — their fourth in the last six games.
[SNY Knicks] Porzingis confident for All-Star Skills challenge repeat (Friday, February 02, 2018 5:53:26 PM)
Kristaps Porzingis isn’t letting the All-Star Skills challenge trophy leave his grasp.
[SNY Knicks] Noah will not return to Knicks ‘until further notice’ (Friday, February 02, 2018 11:45:00 AM)
The Knicks announced Friday in a mutual decision that C Joakim Noah will not return to the team until further notice.
[SNY Knicks] Oakley’s MSG assault case reportedly dismissed (Friday, February 02, 2018 11:18:17 AM)
Knicks legend Charles Oakley had his assault charge stemming from an incident involving his ejection from a February 2017 Knicks game at Madison Square Garden dismissed.
[NYDN] Knicks fall to Bucks on Giannis Antetokounmpo’s game-winner (Friday, February 02, 2018 8:47:49 PM)
It ended, fittingly, with Tim Hardaway Jr. missing a desperation 3-pointer at the buzzer that never had a chance.
[NYDN] Noah and Knicks can agree on this: He’ll be gone indefinitely (Friday, February 02, 2018 8:46:58 PM)
Joakim Noah’s exile from the Knicks will continue indefinitely.
[NYDN] Oakley cleared in MSG assault case — but still barred from arena (Friday, February 02, 2018 8:14:58 PM)
Ex-Knick Charles Oakley has been cleared in his courtside technical foul at Madison Square Garden a year ago.
(Friday, February 02, 2018 2:16:51 PM)
The criminal case stemming from Charles Oakley’s run-in with Madison Square Garden security last February has been dismissed and sealed.
(Friday, February 02, 2018 12:18:42 PM)
The Knicks and Joakim Noah, who has been exiled from the team since Jan. 25 after a dispute with head coach Jeff Hornacek, have agreed that the veteran center will not return to the club until further notice.
(Saturday, February 03, 2018 4:36:31 AM)
Antetokounmpo made a driving layup with 1.9 seconds remaining, and Jabari Parker scored 12 points in his first game in nearly a year.
(Saturday, February 03, 2018 12:38:39 AM)
(Friday, February 02, 2018 10:26:54 PM)
MILWAUKEE — Joakim Noah will not be back with the Knicks until further notice, according to a team official, who said it was “a mutual decision.”
(Friday, February 02, 2018 4:37:42 PM)
The five misdemeanor charges that Charles Oakley was facing as a result of his scuffle with Madison Square Garden security guards a year ago were officially dismissed in a Manhattan court on Friday as part of an agreement the former Knick reached in August.
55 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2018.02.03)”
Kanter shouldn’t been there, blame Hornacek.
But Antetokounmpo would have scored against every Knicks defender (just as he did last year over Thomas) because he is a STAR, that’s what stars do.
Our 7’3 Small Forward is not. He could go the the All-Star Game, but whoever watched Knicks games in the last two months knows that he doesn’t deserve it.
Next year will be huge for him, he must take the next step or we better save that max contract.
Hardaway shot 2-24 (0-12 from 3PT) in the last two games, his missed free throws yesterday were deadly, but I like that he’s becoming a better all around player.
I hate to end the year in a worse position than the Lakers, who did wrong on every decision in the last 5 years, that’s very depressing.
He might have scored on another Knick, true, but he wouldn’t have scored that easily. I think Thomas’ defense is vastly overrated, but he wouldn’t allow a game-winning shot like that. He’d have at least forced Giannis to shoot a contested fadeaway jumper (like Giannis had to shoot the last time he beat the Knicks at the end of the game).
Right now he’s projected to be below our pick, but if he moves up or we snag a late first what do people think about Keita Bates-Diop? He checks a lot of boxes for me and that’s before even taking into account that he fills a clear need. He rebounds well, defends well (2.2 BLK/40), and now looks like a perfectly respectable shooter/scorer.
Ideally we’d take him with a lower pick than our own, but either way I’d be happy to have him.
@2 Agreed, could have been more difficult.
My main point is that is not Kanter’s fault that he was defending 1-on-1 on Giannis…
And that KP is not a star… as of now 😉
Kanter shouldn’t have been on the floor to defend the Freak.
Hardaway (1-14/0-9) should not have been on the floor at all for the last play much less take it.
Where was Burke? Why is Jack in the game at the end?
And Brian, you’re right. That kind of play just can’t happen. I want KP defending the rim and a glue defender keeping him out of the paint. The entire universe knew that he was getting the ball.
Every smart coach in the NBA knows that Kanter is poor against the P&R. They target him and make him part of the game plan. The Bucks were hoping he would switch on that last play. His issues on defense are why he couldn’t get off the bench for OKC at times last year.
He’s a beast on the boards and efficient around the rim, but when you net it all out his on/off court data (adjusted also) has been negative for years. One or two years of that kind of data can be volatile, but pretty much his whole career is like that. That can’t be an accident.
The sadder part is that had Hornacek taken him out, Giannis probably would have missed the shot, KP wouldn’t have gotten the rebound, and they would have beaten us on a put back. smh
We are close to being a legitimate playoff team (1 player away), but in some ways when you watch Timmy chuck away bricks without conscience, Kanter prove he’s not the “solution” at C, and watch KP look absolutely lost, off balance, and with bad footwork, it feels like we are a long way away.
1. We have a 22 year with superstar potential that looks as lost and frail as a rookie at times.
2. We have a very promising rookie without a true position yet that’s 4-5 away.
3. We have a backup C that never gets to play because we have a better backup C making a ton of money ahead of him.
4. We have a 6th man making star money as our 2nd option.
5. We have some good role players that we have to move on from.
We are fine as long as we don’t do anything stupid, but even if we are smart enough to draft another solid 19 year old lottery player this year, it’s going to be a VERY long time before these kids are ready. It would be really nice if we could add a solid 25 year old starter to jump start it a little. It’s hard to imagine how we cab do that unless we give up a future pick at some point.
It’s almost as if there’s no point in rostering a player like, say, Courtney Lee…
since it’s looking more likely by the day that hornacek might not be around next year, let me throw a name out there I haven’t seen mentioned: Nick Nurse. He earned his stripes the hard way with a ton of HC experience in the british league of all places and then the D league, generally to rave reviews. In the offseason there was a lot of claptrap about him being the “offensive coordinator” charged with modernizing the raptors offense, which is just the sort of bullshit you hear in the offseason that never amounts to anything. But with largely the same personnel and the same head coach, the raptors have in fact made as big a positive change to their offensive scheme as you’ll see. he generally talks the talk if the talk means analytical yet pragmatic and not spewing a bunch of conventional, empty basketball aphorisms. we can’t get masai but maybe we can at least poach one of his goldfish.
I don’t know if we are “fine”.
I have a hard time coming down on Kanter today. He was our best player last night. Honestly, I think he was fouled on his last rebound/putback attempt. And he was in front of Giannis in that last play. They are just a good team and we’re getting the whistles.
It’s true that Kanter is a negative against faster teams, but he’s a beast on offense. Kanter’s Not the problem. THJ and Jack/Frank are, and the glaring hole at sf.
Beasley is proving to be a decent 6th man, but he can’t start and McD blew his shot. And I’m not even going to discuss Lance.
How is the roster this fugly halfway through the season?? And how does a guy like Burke not get more minutes?
Right now, my complaints are with the coach and the front office.
Everyone should know my view on this.
Occasionally you have cap space that you have to put players into. The idea is to fill it with the best available players on fair contracts (preferably attractive ones) so they can be moved or eventually rolled up into better players. If no one worth a dime wants to play on your team because you suck (like the Knicks), you find mediocre players willing to take 1 or 2 year contracts so the cap space becomes like a rollover asset where every year 1-2 players come off the cap and you get another opportunity to test the FA market and make progress. You can also rent cap space for a pick if you have a huge surplus of space and not much else to work with (like the Nets), but imo that’s only a good idea at the very beginning of the rebuild. Even they added a legit player like Lin.
I would rather Lee’s contract be a little shorter. I would also rather he was Jimmy Butler. lol
I’m all for moving Lee if they want to. Until now they haven’t wanted to. I’m just not for giving him away. I don’t think you get better by losing trades.
I can understand the predicament the front office was in; they had a few weeks to trade a completely cooked Melo (his numbers this year…yikes) for whatever they could get. This, along with having to live with all of Phil’s blunders (Noah/Lee/Thomas/no point guard), lead to a pretty unbalanced roster. I hate some of the playing time decisions Hornacek has made, but the reality is no matter what he did some decisions were going to look highly questionable.
I consider this deadline the first real test for this group. There is absolutely no reason KOQ should be on the team past Thursday, and the same goes for Lee if we get so much as a straight salary dump offer (ideally we’d get more than that). Test the waters on Kanter, see if someone wants to give up a second rounder for Jack, etc. This being anything but a very active deadline for us would be extremely disappointing.
@10
We would’t have even been in the game if it wasn’t for Kanter. IMO, he’s not the long term solution as our starting C and is overpaid. So I’d like to move on for him. Last night’s game winner was an illustration of one reason that despite his lofty boxscore stats he doesn’t add a lot of value. That kind of stuff happens during the game all the time but it doesn’t go into the box score. It’s partly why Hornacek has tended not to play him in 4th quarters.
Let’s say we take an expiring contract for Lee because he doesn’t fit our timeline.
Who do you think we are going to sign with that cap space that’s going to position us much better for the future?
It will probably be someone like Derrick Williams, Aaron Affalo or some other mercenary player that wants a 2 year deal. No one any good will come to NY yet. That’s one of the problems we’ve had with FAs. We aren’t good enough yet. We’ll be in a same position but with a worse player.
The thing that hurt us far and away the most was that we didn’t have 2 first round picks in the last 4 years. If we had added 2 more lottery players in the last 4 years, we would be the next T-Wolves. It cost us 2 years.
The reason Kanter was on the floor was because the Knicks had called timeout the possession before when they had the ball. Obviously they were gonna have Kanter on the floor to try to take the lead and he wound up taking the shot. The problem was when he missed and the Bucks got the rebound they smartly didn’t call timeout so the Knicks couldn’t make a defensive substitution for Kanter. Although not sure Hornacek would’ve done so anyway since his lineups late in games are truly bizarre at times since he seems to refuse to make offense/defense substitutions.
Ripping on Kanter for that last play last night is silly. He actually defended that pretty well. You know, sometimes great players make great shots. Giannis did. He actually was forced to go to his left, which Clyde had been pleading with the Knicks to do, on that last play. The only reason why the game was even close at the end was Kanter, despite all his warts.
Now, having said that, yeah, he’s not a good defender in general. As for not having him in at the end, maybe, but IIRC Milwaukee did not call a timeout after the Knicks miss. If they did, I’m sorry, but I don’t recall that they did, so there was no chance to sub in defense. Did we really want LT in there with the score tied and the Knicks with the ball near the end? No.
If we want to obsess on that last play rather than Timmy’s horrendous shooting night (there’s the ballgame folks), maybe KP should have defended better, fought to stay with him or trail the play better. Maybe he was gassed again. Or, blame the scheme if the plan was to switch out there.
At the end, sorry, but these last two losses have been “good” losses. This is the state of this team. The talent is just not there, and they are more than just 1 more good player away from contending… Losses like this will become palatable if a couple of vets can be dealt (Lee and OQ) and guys like Jack, LT, and even Beasley get their minutes reduced. Play the kids.
My gripe about last night is Burke’s DNP. What the heck? Can we move on from Jack, now?
@15
That confirms what I thought r.e. the endgame situation. Sometimes it is okay to credit the opponent for good strategy (not taking a timeout there) and a great player making a shot.
Hornacek’s biggest error in endgame situations is leaving Jack in vs. Frank. Frank is light years better as a defender.
LOL. This from the Sporting News:
In what alternate universe is JR Smith a “valuable asset”? If this report is true, looks like they are wanting to dump JR and attaching the pick to him. Still, if they are willing to move the Nets pick, I’d guess lots of teams will be interested.
@9 – this is the first i’m hearing of nurse and he does sound amazing…. i don’t think hornacek is all that bad but would def want to move towards a better coach that can help reshape the organization…. you usually find them in unexpected places…
that being said…. i don’t think mills or perry are analytically inclined and might even be violently against it…
One strategic fail last night was ice cold THj taking two important shots in the last stretch and whiffing on both. Why is the guy who was 1-12 at that point taking important shots? Literally anyone else please.
In our universe, where being a “proven scorer” entitles you to a 4-year, $50M deal from the Knicks.
This is the house that Starks built, y’all.
@21
In other words, Steve Mills’s universe. Also where Ron Baker (who I do like up to a point, but as a spot guy/glue guy at about 1/3 what they paid him) gets paid more than most lottery picks from the year when he was undrafted.
Let’s hope the new GM is wiser.
RE 22
I was wondering why, when Kanter came back in at about 4:00 to go, they didn’t start dumping the ball to him in the post. In the first half (and even the third quarter), they did that a lot and he kept bullying Henson and others. He didn’t seem to get many touches after that. It was all perimeter stuff.
Ron Baker has a no-trade clause. Never forget.
The Knicks should offer Courtney Lee and Kyle O’Quinn for JR Smith and the Cavs’ 1st round pick this year. JR Smith and Mike Beasley would be must see TV and JR’s final year is a team option that we get to decline instead of paying Courtney Lee in his age 35 season.
Pretty sure it’s a player option. Knicks management would never be that stupid!
JR Smith and Mike Beasley together would solidify the tank considering how much clubbing they’d be doing with their crew in NYC or whatever road city they happen to be in.
That being said, with JR once was enough for me, No Thank You
We can do better than that. JR had been goddawful and still has 1+ years left on his deal ($15m next year and $4m guaranteed in 2019-20). Lee would represent a significant upgrade for Cleveland, and KOQ would be in their rotation as well. Making that swap is worth more than the #25 pick, which is what Cleveland has currently.
We could consider the Cavs pick + swap rights on the Brooklyn pick.
I think you guys overestimate the market value of Lee and O’Quinn. They’re very valuable players and they’d fix Cleveland’s defense while giving them high efficiency scoring, but there really isn’t a market for either player. Taking on Swish and Cleveland’s first round pick for both guys gets us out of Courtney Lee’s contract a year early, it lands us some extra draft capital, and it makes us one of the three or four worst teams in the league for the remainder of the season. I think that’s worth it, but then again there is the issue of having two locker room cancers in Smith and Noah.
For whatever reason the NBA hasn’t figured out that O’Quinn is a good basketball player, and Lee is good, but he’s also got 2 more years at decent money left on his deal. If you’re the Cavs and you’re worried about Lebron walking you might not want to have Courtney on the team.
It has also been reported that Cleveland isn’t moving the Nets pick unless they get a young player under team control. We don’t have that guy on our roster, so I don’t see how Cleveland gives us the rights to the Nets pick. A swap would be smart (and I could have sworn I mentioned a pick swap on this board a few weeks ago), but we likely don’t have the mid-high usage different maker Cleveland would want in order to facilitate that pick swap. How about this trade?
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y7zvgkm5
We get swap rights on the Nets pick and two young small forwards without lengthening salary. Also, we might be able to coax Charlotte into agreeing to give a lottery protected 1st round pick if they want Hernangomez back in a trade.
To be fair, Noah is more of a Noah’s living room cancer at this point.
JR’s contract has $4m guaranteed in 2019-20, so switching him for Lee would only save us $9m that year. That’s decent, for sure, but it’s not the same as saving the full value of Lee’s last year.
JR might be close to dead money at this point. He’s been really brutal the last 2 years. That makes him a big negative asset. Not to mention the personality “quirks” and work ethic issues that he brings.
Or what about this trade involving the same three teams:
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ycp87awp
Now the Knicks get the highest two picks of Charlotte, New York, Brooklyn, and Cleveland with Charlotte getting the lowest and Cleveland drafting the 3rd highest. So if the lottery falls with New York picking 8th, Brooklyn picking 6th, Charlotte picking 12th, and Cleveland picking 27th, we get #6 and #8, Cleveland gets the #12 overall and Charlotte picks 27th. Charlotte gets expiring contracts and Willy Hernangomez for MKG, a contract they’ve been trying to dump so they only move out of the lottery instead of losing a 1st round pick altogether. Cleveland gives up their pick but keeps a lottery pick AND Cedi Osman, and then they get to fix their defense, rebounding, and 3 point shooting. New York gets an athletic small forward without taking on future salary, we kickstart the tank job this season, and instead of picking late in the 1st round, we pick twice in the top 10. Also, we get a chance to rehabilitate Noah’s contract value by making him the most expensive back up center instead of the most expensive couch potato.
Who says no?
As an aside, I know it’s not at all cool what that Denver fan did to Westbrook, but it does seem like a natural result of Westbrook’s during- and post-game mugging/staredown-ing.
He has really upped the ante like very few players have, so a fan telling him to “go home” after a loss was bound to happen. In short, the refs have to be careful of that stuff. It escalates.
The recent Mirotic trade is a good barometer for a JR-Lee trade. The Pelicans had to give up a mid-round draft pick (currently #19) for Mirotic and the chance to unload $15m in dead Asik salary ($12m next year and $3m in 2019-20). Mirotic is a pretty good role player with one year, $12.5m left on his contract.
Lee and Mirotic are making nearly the same money, but Lee has one more year on his deal. I’d rate them as similar players in terms of on-court value as well. JR is slightly better than Asik, but also makes $4m more, so those assets have pretty similar negative value. So if we traded Lee for JR + the Cavs #25 pick, we’d be getting a slightly worse deal than Chicago got. Now if we throw in KOQ as well, Cleveland is really doing well for themselves.
That’s why I would need to get back something else. Swap rights on the Brooklyn pick seems appropriate. We’re currently #11 in the lottery and Brooklyn is #8.
what’s holding lee back is the presence of tyreke evans on the market….. i assume everyone else prefers evans….
i’m beginning to think that nothing is going to be done…. it’s still better than a bad move but there has to be a decent trade out there….. there’s really no excuse to be keeping this roster into the offseason….
Yeah, Evans going somewhere might open things up. The Celtics are apparently looking to make another move, and surely Cleveland will do something.
Noah is on the list, but he’s not number one and they are all pretty bad. It almost makes Phil look like an ordinary GM
Knick fan not in NJ that link doesn’t go where you want it to
Nobody is giving up a 1st round pick for 3 months of Tyreke Evans, but he’s definitely keeping us from moving Lee.
My apologies, something went wrong with my copy and paste. Here’s the correct li k.
https://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/248750/The-10-Least-Tradable-NBA-Contracts-Of-2018
What would we have to stick in a Noah-Deng swap to get Larry Nance?
It’s interesting-Noah is (probably) a far superior player to Deng, but they probably have the same negative trade value.
Part of that may be because Noah plays center, and there is almost no market for centers
Yeah, I was kind of figuring there would be some kind of discount on what we would have to kick in because Noah’s numbers are still good when he can actually play. And Nance isn’t properly valued in the first place if he’s on the block as per Woj. Something like this (i.e., this, since I’d settle for Hart but they like him better) strikes me as better than paying to get less useless for the money seems like a losing prop given the market. Looking at Mirotic here. Honestly I am just so used to wins produced that I really don’t have any kind of feel for perceived value.
Anyone interested in Shabazz Mohammed. Apparently he wants out of Minny.
So the Spurs are interested in Willy Hernangomez and the Warriors are interested in Kyle O’Quinn. That’s usually a sign that you shouldn’t trade those two, but O’Quinn is ready to leave town this off season and Willy Hernangomez probably isn’t the long term answer at center for us. Kyle Anderson would be a nice piece to have, but I doubt the Spurs trade a starter for our 3rd string center.
Noah-Deng is a perfect match. No other players need be included.
In a lot of ways, he was a very typically shitty GM, as opposed to, say, Isiah, who was atypically shitty.
The Pelicans gave up a pick in that deal more because the Bulls were forced to swallow Asik’s contract than because the Bulls were giving up Mirotic. Mirotic has also been a much higher impact player this year and is six years younger.
The equivalent trade for the Knicks is probably Lee + O’Quinn + Beasley for JR + Cleveland pick. JR’s deal is a little worse but I think Mirotic given his age and this season’s excellent play is worth more than the 3 Knicks I list.
If we could get the small forward equivalent of Mirotic for Noah and a pick, that would be an interesting deal.
Noah makes like 50% more than Asik/year and has an extra guaranteed year. Trading Noah is a step away from greatness. We should be trading for players like Noah and taking the bribe that comes with it.
Three of the top 6 most untradable contracts played for the 2012 Chicago Bulls…. (throw Derek Rose’s most untradable contract in the league c. 2017 and you’ve got to have the all time greatest collection of future terrible contracts on one roster. (I guess the moral of that story is: know when to hold ‘em; know when to fold ‘em; know when to walk away; know when to run; never count your money, when you’re sittin’ at the table; there’s time enough for counting when you’ve successfully pawned your aging players off on the Knicks and Lakers.)
@48 Anderson is great but it would be pretty surprising if San Antonio shipped him because I can’t see them winning any trade.
@49 I know Noah-Deng works by itself but that’s the definition of deck chairs and if we can get in a conversation about trash for trash and they’re shopping Nance anyway for some reason there has to be some kind of opportunity there.
The path to good is really right there. We’re giving major minutes to Porzingis and Ntilikina and Thomas and they’ve all been really unproductive. KP is a novelty act. He’s the embodiment of this idiot team’s organizational philosophy of keep chucking and re-brand. We have to realize our gains here before the perception gap disappears. And it will disappear. I’ve heard Ntilikina could be attached to unload Noah and while that seems super optimistic there are a lot of dumb teams out there and we don’t have to do nearly that well to win a trade. Alleged interest in Thomas comes up every off-season and deadline which again is hard to believe since out from under the money and minutes would be a relative coup.