2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bulls

The Bulls have been taking advantage of just how bad the bottom of the Eastern Conference’s playoff teams look by winning four in a row to get to 7th in the Conference despite still being under .500.

So this will hopefully be a loss.

Let’s? Go Knicks!

88 replies on “2016-17 Game Thread: Knicks vs. Bulls”

Welp, Philly is not beating Brooklyn. Best we can hope for is losing to them on the last day of the season and winning the coin flip.

Off topic, I’ve been warming up to the possibility of drafting Dennis Smith Jr. He reminds me of Kyle Lowry, but is a bit taller and a better perimeter shooter than Lowry and not as tenacious of a defender. Both tore ACLs at around the same age.

Here’s some articles about Lowry when he was a draft prospect:


I suppose I’d be ok with taking Fox over Smith, but would have serious reservations about Frank or Monk. Frank really scares me. I think he has the highest bust potential in the top-10 picks. Smith looks like, at worst, a very explosive sixth man.

No KP tonight but Baker, WillyBilly and Baker are playing hard.

If Courtney Lee doesn’t demand a trade he’s gonna average a career high in points per game next season. He’s a great fit for what we do offensively.

Zman when I read “explosive sixth man” I immediately thought of Eric Gordon or OJ Mayo. IIRC both were scoring point guards in college.

And Dennis Smith Jr plays a very similar game to Isiah Thomas except he will give you more explosiveness and better defense since he’s 6 inches taller. I’m hoping Philly and Orlando let him fall to us because he is exactly what we need.

Dennis Smith Jr. is another knee injury waiting to happen.

Ntilikina is the way….unless Ball is available.

KP is our least productive big. No KP means more O’Quinn, more Hernangomez, and more Melo at the 4. When KP doesn’t play we’re a lot more likely to win. I hope this isn’t always the case but it is right now.

KP is our best interior defender…by far. We are not more likely to win.

If we can’t catch Orlando or Philly then it should be okay to root for a few wins. Correct?

The most important part of defense is grabbing the rebound to end the opponent’s possession. KP also leads the league in fouls. He is not a productive basketball player right now and that’s obvious. Once he gains some consistency and stops fouling you’re talking about a franchise player. Until then we have a better chance in every game if O’Quinn and Hernangomez split his 34 minutes a night.

The most important part of defense is grabbing the rebound to end the opponent’s possession. KP also leads the league in fouls.

KP is 18th in DPM out of 93 PFs. That’s by far the best among our big men. This isn’t an issue of debate, its a fact.

Two seasons of Jose Calderon made us think Derrick Rose did something special. Randle is out there getting into the teeth of the defense with no problem.

And Mo NDour looks great. I see why Gaines wanted him over Randle (who I also love as a player).

Where is the article on how DBPM correlates to wins? KP rates as replacement level in WS/48 and he’s a net negative player by WP48. Excuse me, but I don’t trust ESPN’s stats too much.

This Bulls team is playing like total ass. Another fucking W to ruin our tank.

Where is the article on how DBPM correlates to wins?

He’s also 11th in real plus-minus wins. But since the issue was his defense, I mentioned his defensive effect.

I think Kristaps is probably our best defensive big, but O’Quinn isn’t bad (and honestly, Noah wasn’t that terrible either)

Reub my sources on the Bulls tell me Jerian is in the locker room watching videos of Tony Wroten to learn how to be a great point guard.

It’s weird, the Knicks suck but they don’t really suck which would be preferable obviously for the tank. The Knicks even suck at sucking.

Kyle rates as our best big by DBPM tied with Noah. KP is our best by DRPM with OQ behind him by a fair bit. RPM is a black box but it’s built on RAPM which is likely the gold standard for publicly available advanced stats/superior to the box score metrics. KP rates as league average according to WS, not replacement level. WP has a fit to the data worse than even PER. Don’t use WP or PER.

I’d say Willy and KP are about equal and I’d say KP is probably our best big defender, though not by much. Also: Willy has a positive DRPM!

DRed, please tell young Jerian that those Wroten highlight videos don’t take much more than a minute to watch.

The Bulls suck. Amazingly, the best player in last summer’s trade was Justin Holiday!

If guys like Randle and Baker can deliver in this offense then imagine what Ntilikina could do.


Second thought looking at box score: I guess leading by 20 with three rookies in your starting lineup, and only two vets total is not a bad bad thing?

This is destined to be remembered as the “That One Game Where Ron Baker and Maurice Ndour Looked Like Competent Players” game.

Ma, please tell me that Frank Ntilikeeena will grow up to be better than Justin Holiday?

Well, Knicks shooting 55% and Bulls 33%. That gotta even up by the end, right?

just throw all advanced defensive stats out the window. they just arent there yet, and it is the same with other sports as well.

I mean, what can anyone possibly do? Play Plumlee, Melo and Sasha 42 minutes?

play ndour at the 5, kuz at the 4, sasha at the 3, baker at the 2, and randle at the 1.

@30 The blame obviously goes to Phil Jackson for not inserting himself as our starting PG for the remainder of the season. Or at least ole Sasha.

I guess leading by 20 with three rookies in your starting lineup, and only two vets total is not a bad bad thing?

Yeah I can’t be too mad at the Knicks for this. It’s why I was arguing that this team couldn’t really tank without just ordering the guys to miss-with Rose and Melo on the bench there are a bunch of decentish players on the team and they’re going to win some games.

Exactly. The Knicks are a good team 4-15. It’s that Big 3 that really pollutes things out there for one reason or another.

Knicks are not a deep team. I can’t believe that anyone would believe guys like Ndour, Baker, Kuzminskas, etc. are the guys holding it together. Bulls have played one of the most lethargic first halfs I’ve seen. They are shooting 33 percent and allow us to shoot better than 50 percent.

The Knicks have a lot of mediocre players-going from Melo to Kuz and Rose to Baker/Sasha/Randle isn’t going to make a big difference.

If we beat the Bulls it helps our second round pick so not so bad.

Melo is proving he’s a must get in the offseason.

It’s clear that’s De’Aaron at 5 is about as high as we can hope for barring some great lottery luck

I’ll be very happy with Fox, quite happy with Isaac, and happy enough with either Frank or DSJr

Turned to the Knicks from the Yankee game. Butler stops, pops for 3. Nobody near him. Morrow takes a corner 3. Lee fouls him. I’ve seen enough.

Hornacek should have told these dudes to literally throw the game, like point-shaving style

Horny can help with a few technicals too. What a loser. I mean winner.

Holiday is soaring through the air. Young Jerian not in sight.

Adam Silver is watching tanking closely. He’s watching tonight’s game and will appreciate the Knicks actually trying to win. There will be a magic ping pong ball. He will reward the Knicks with the #2 pick.

Melo is just chucking the ball now trying to reach his 20 points. Shameless.

well at the very least… we can’t get any worse than #7 which could be a really bad spot for us if we want to come out of this with a pg… but we at least come out of it with a decent player….

well at the very least… we can’t get any worse than #7 which could be a really bad spot for us if we want to come out of this with a pg… but we at least come out of it with a decent player….

why cant we get any worse than 7?

We should just keep this exact team together for next year and just add Frank and, of course, PJ Tucker.

I’m an N’dour truther, so it’s good to see him have an all around good night.

I’m an N’dour truther, so it’s good to see him have an all around good night.

I’m a big Ndour fan. So I like to see him play well. But yeah, bad win. They’re keeping the Kings and Wolves in this thing while keeping their chance of #4 and #5 slim.

Well, no surprises here, the Knicks fight hard to disappoint us one more time, the Bulls suck and I can’t fucking wait for this dreadful season to end.

This has been one of the worst seasons to endure in recent memory and I don’t think that’s an overstatement.

We’re going to end up with one of Dennis Smith Jr or Frank Ntilikina and I’d be pretty happy with both guys.

We’re always going to be shitty aren’t we?

Yes, thenoblefacehumper. Yes we are.

If the Knicks were bad enough to finish 5th in the tankathon, that would have given them about a 30% shot at a top 3 pick. If they fall to 7th that cuts their odds to 15%.

I’m not too worried about the difference in draft position itself between 5th and 7th, because I think the guards that are likely to be on the board on that time are all fairly comparable prospects. But having the odds of winning the lotto cut in half hurts. I just fucking KNOW the team that gets into that #5 spot is gonna win the lotto with what should have been our ping pong balls.

April 4, 2017 at 10:44 pm
We’re always going to be shitty aren’t we?

Yes, we’re always going to be shitty if Dolan owns the team.

the lakers, magic, sixers and kings all have a good case to take a pg…. and if our goal is to come out of this with a good pg prospect(ball/smith/fox) we are going to need to pick ahead of at least one of them to have a shot or have the sixers grab the lakers pick….

we were looking ok but this win is really bad…. at #7 it would look like isaac is the pick but with all the blue chip guys gone it’s possible phil goes into left field which scares me…

I think Courtney Lee is going to be a decent veteran influence on our youth movement. He just gave a pretty good interview post game about being frustrated that they didn’t play as a team earlier this year but are now and they are building for the future.

Payton has been balling as of late. I doubt the Magic take another PG but you can’t count on them to do anything right.

With any luck we’ll move up a couple picks. Hopefully it gets rigged for us somehow.

Sixers gave up 141 points on 64% shooting today to the Nets. No Net had more than 16 points.

If the Bulls can get the No. 1 pick in the 08 draft and the Cavs get it in ’11, then I hold some hope we can move up a few spots. It’s a faint hope though.

The Sixers are an abomination. Adam Silver will not reward them. They’ll drop on Lottery Night.

Adam Silver already gifted the Sixers last draft with the #1 overall pick.

Imagine we miss out on all the PG’s in the draft, get a nice J. Isaac and as last resort we have to resign DRose lol.

I wont mind Frank Nikitilna if we get a later pick but im skeptical of his athleticism and ability to be the primary ball handler

Ron Baker got 6 assists in this system. You don’t need great athleticism to be a “primary ballhandler” in a well coordinated motion offense.

Yeah, if we actually run a motion offense where everyone buys in you can make the sum greater than the players. But more talented players make the sum greater as well. We didn’t have any of our “superstars” buy into any of that this year. Hopefully next year is different.

The bulls aren’t exactly a great team to judge our system against though.

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