Knicks Morning News (2016.07.05)

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: Kevin Durant’s Move to Warriors Reflects Trend in Team-Building (Tue, 05 Jul 2016 00:46:55 GMT)

    For Durant the jump is as much about the talent-laden roster he is joining, and the chance it gives him to win his first N.B.A. title, as it is anything else.

  • [New York Times] Brandon Jennings Agrees to Join Knicks (Tue, 05 Jul 2016 01:29:07 GMT)

    Jennings, formerly of the Orlando Magic, will sign a one-year deal to back up the newly acquired Derrick Rose at point guard.

  • 297 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2016.07.05)”

    Thanks to whoever linked to the P&T article explaining how we can still keep Galloway.

    Not sure we will or should use EB rights on him because it would impede our ability to potentially sign CP3 or Westbrook next year. But it’s cool that we possibly could.

    I have to be honest. I am not really a fan of the 4 year contracts given to Noah and Lee, but since the next 2+ NBA seasons will probably be a race for 2nd place to GS, I think this will be a really fun team to root for. And I don’t think we’ve really given up that much flexibility.

    – Noah’s contract isn’t that bad considering that cap jump (only about 16.8% of next year’s cap). It’s conceivable that he could be tradeable if we want without having to give up assets.

    – Lee’s contract is good – he should be tradeable without an issue.

    – Rose obviously expires next summer.

    – Lance’s contract, assuming he doesn’t turn into a pumpkin this year, is REALLY tradeable. Seriously, he probably took a big discount to stay in NY.

    – And Jennings – I doubt we will do this because we will presumably be in the playoff hunt, but he probably is tradeable at the deadline if we want.

    It seems clear one of the mandates this summer was to get more athletic, and wow have we done that. I think this team will be really fun to watch. Maybe they won’t be great, but it should still be fun.

    Early off-season prediction — 46-36, 5 or 6 seed in the east.
    2017 summer – we let Rose go, sign CP3.

    1. The Westbrook and KD experiment was a failure, if the measure is winning the championship.
    2. Westbrook is a beast, but the team struggled throughout the year. Not sure if Westbrook style of play will ever get him a championship.
    3. Jennings or Gallo? Please. Is this really a serious question. Gallo is a bench player, too small the ply the two, and not a great shooter and too slow to be at point, while also lacking he handle of a point. Under pressure he is forced to mid court.
    4. Jennings was once touted as a possible starter and coveted. His Achilles injury is not two years removed, and it’s a one year deal.
    5. I have no fear of Noah’s injuries. The man is a beast. He’s going to have a great year.
    6. Rose is two full years from his injuries. This is typically the year players snap back. A one year contract. Low risk, potential high reward.
    7. This now looks like a solid playoff team, with genuine upside with KP.
    8. The Courtney Lee deal is a strong upgrade. A better defender than Afflalo and doesn’t need the ball to be effective.
    9. This is not a Melo-centric team anymore. This is good for Melo. Expect him to have a good year.

    The more I look at this team, the more pleased I am. The Knicks gave money and years to good players, and mitigated risk with some players with injuries by giving only one year deals.
    Gallo and O’Quinn did not give us much justification to keep.

    Yeah, good work by the folks of P&T on the Galloway issue. Still have to figure out if Willy wants to come here, and then if we’d want Langston eating into next year’s cap (where Westbrook should be the obvious target, assuming he hasn’t already been traded and signed a new deal with his new team). The one obvious thing the roster lacks is a go-to scorer for the second unit, which was the one thing Afflalo was useful for towards the end of his stay here. Langston doesn’t solve that issue, but I’m not sure who would who we could fit under the cap at this point.

    I hated the Rose trade and got depressed over this attempt to rebuild the 2011 All-Star team, but I’ve inevitably talked myself into this offseason. Mainly because it’s what we do while rooting for this accursed team. But even the worst-case scenario for this roster — Noah is constantly hurt, whichever one of Rose or Jennings is healthy at a given time plays terribly — won’t be dull, and we have our pick just in case it’s an utter disaster.

    The one obvious thing the roster lacks is a go-to scorer for the second unit, which was the one thing Afflalo was useful for towards the end of his stay here. Langston doesn’t solve that issue, but I’m not sure who would who we could fit under the cap at this point.

    Figure 1 or 2 of Rose, Melo, and KP will be on the court at any given time. I don’t think it’s nearly as much an issue as last year. Even a Jennings/KP pick-and-pop is the beginning of a reasonable offensive possession.

    Well, we pretty much know our team. I think if
    -Noah mostly stays healthy and reverts to something like 14-15 form, and
    -Rose plays closer to average and not what he’s done in his last 4000 minutes (or if Rose gets hurt and Jennings/other bakcups play close to average) and
    -KP improves to one notch below 2nd year Dirk/Pau, i.e. above average but sub all-star and
    -Melo mostly stays healthy

    We can win around 45 games. The upside to that would come from a truly breakout KP year (or, if you like, Rose invents a cryogenic time machine).

    The more likely base case seems lower because of much higher than much average health and decline risks with Noah and to a far lesser extent Melo. I don’t think Rose’s health risk is important because I don’t think the delta between Rose and Jennings is significant.

    I hope we keep Gallo, even though I acknowledge he played like shit the second half of last year. I think he’s a better player than Lance Thomas. Lance shot 40% from 3 on 109 attempts and Gallo shot 34.4% on 224 attempts including one of the worst airballs I’ve ever seen. But if you ask me who is likely to be the better distance shooter going forward I’d call it a coin flip. Gallo gets shit for running into screens while Lance gets accolades for being a smart defender who can switch out from wings to guards. Those are reasonable observations. Lance is a smart, versatile, stay at home defender, but dude is literally among the 1% (hi Arron) least disruptive defenders in the league and one of the slower players in the league. He is a good defender to pair with overly aggressive, steal happy defensive athletes like RWB or Monta or Ariza, but when you pair him with other really low steal % guys like Melo and Rose you get an incredibly saggy, passive defense.

    Galloway on the other hand is the only guy on the Knicks roster who has shown the ability to guard the opposing point guard with toughness and alacrity. He’s also a ball mover in a forest…

    Figure 1 or 2 of Rose, Melo, and KP will be on the court at any given time. I don’t think it’s nearly as much an issue as last year. Even a Jennings/KP pick-and-pop is the beginning of a reasonable offensive possession.

    Good point. Hornacek has said he wants to stagger the rotations to do exactly that. Fish’s insistence early on of the five-men-on, five-men-off approach exacerbated our roster design problems last year.

    Dear Unknown Knicks fan,
    Our team is young, tough, well balanced with tradeable players without overpaid ones and without “burden” contracts.We also have our future draft picks and looks like we’re “CLEAN” and we have positive vibes all over us that could tempt future FAs.

    If you still don’t like it better check your thyroid gland for malfunction.

    Hope we should spend risk to fill out the remaining roster spots for young potential players. Or maybe we can convince ray Allen for another season. I’m excited for this Knicks team.mconf finals please

    If it weren’t for the Rose trade, I could probably talk myself into this offseason. Not in a “this was the smartest course of action” kind of way, because that would still be a full rebuild. But if we have to try and “win now” for some godforsaken reason, these weren’t the worst signings we could’ve made.

    The Rose trade just puts a damper on everything for me. Plenty of risk, and no one has actually been able to explain what the potential reward is given his contract situation, our position as a team, and his terrible play over his last 3000 minutes or so.

    If it weren’t for the Rose trade, I could probably talk myself into this offseason. Not in a “this was the smartest course of action” kind of way, because that would still be a full rebuild. But if we have to try and “win now” for some godforsaken reason, these weren’t the worst signings we could’ve made.

    The Rose trade just puts a damper on everything for me. Plenty of risk, and no one has actually been able to explain what the potential reward is given his contract situation, our position as a team, and his terrible play over his last 3000 minutes or so.

    i heard on some podcast pretty much what you’re saying — “it’s a dumb way to build a team, but they did that dumb thing in as smart a way as possible”

    I actually think this sets up very well for us next summer, at least in terms of Chris Paul. Significant FAs will be fleeing the western conference next summer — who wants to deal with Juggernaut #1 in Golden State and sub-Juggernaut #2 in San Antonio? The Clippers’ window has slammed shut.

    I don’t think there’s any chance Westbrook gets traded to the Lakers — any trade for him would start with Ingram +Russell + picks. Why would he want to re-sign to go play with Mozgov and old Deng and nothing else?

    the Celtics though… that’s another story. But they have so many B-level pieces without A-level potential it’s hard to imagine OKC getting sufficient return. (although I guess some return is better than zero return)

    Hopefully Melo can get into Westbrook’s ear and tell him not to make the same mistakes at he did during the MeloDrama.

    If it weren’t for the Rose trade, I could probably talk myself into this offseason. Not in a “this was the smartest course of action” kind of way, because that would still be a full rebuild. But if we have to try and “win now” for some godforsaken reason, these weren’t the worst signings we could’ve made.

    For a NY team with an aging star like Melo and a rising star like KP it was the smart approach. It put a smile on our star’s face. It surrounds out rising star with players that play with heart. It gives the casual fan names they know well.

    A total rebuild was impossible without draft picks. We have Willy Hernangomez (I hope) who will be like our rookie. Now when we draft next year we can surround the new kids with solid citizens. We now have EXTRA picks in 2017 – a first and two seconds.

    By the way, nobody’s mentioning how Rose brought in Noah and Noah brought in Lee. That should not be lost when you analyze the Rose trade. It seems totally “by design”.

    You can see the method to the madness: put together a team that will be more competitive and aesthetically pleasing, and even if Rose and/or Jennings don’t work out, this is now an easier core to sell to Westbrook, Paul, or Lowry next summer, especially if they’re unhappy with their current teams a year from now.

    I still wish we’d gone for the full rebuild (even with Melo staying), and wish we hadn’t given up Grant in the Rose trade, but overall I hate this much less than I did even a few days ago.

    I was thinking it was tankapalooza for a while, but now I truly believe Phil wants to win. I’m starting to see the sense in the whole thing. I’m not sure it will work but I do wanna say that anyone can get hurt at any time. Also, a lot of players deal with injuries, including the fancy KD.

    Derrick Rose may actually suck or whatever but I’ll look for a few forays into the paint and hopefully a final score with us ahead and hope that his advanced stats don’t torpedo us. Meanwhile, you gotta say that Phil has managed risk pretty well with only one year commitment on the part of the franchise.

    Rolo, I liked but we lost almost every night the last few months. Galloway, Calderon, Grant, ditto.

    So, OK by me, fun team to root for with a pick if it all goes to shit.

    But BOS still holds the winning hand. We’ll see if they play it well.

    Melo-32
    Lee-30
    Noah-31

    These guys are all going to get worse. We’re assembling a team to win now when the realistic ceiling is what, 45 or so wins? Then what happens?

    I see all these moves as dooming this team to mediocrity. Will they be better next year? Likely if there are no injuries to the key acquisitions, but that is one big IF based on the injury history of who is coming in. You simply cannot ignore the injury history and decline of players like Rose, Noah and Jennings. In summary:
    – acquired mostly players with recent injuries and declining stats
    – long term contracts for Lee and Noah, which has hurt cap flexibility in later years
    – will likely be a middling team so no chance of drafting near the top of the first round
    – other than KP, no young players with upside, instead a team dominated with players on the decline.
    – an organization that shows no willingness to hold on to younger players and develop such prospects.

    I have been a Knick’s fan a long time and seen the grab for players that are past there glory. This off season is just another example of the same old, same old. My preference would have been to go for the complete rebuild, which we have never truly tried in NY, which would have given me at least hope, rather than simply more mediocrity.

    @17 Exactly! All these moves might have made sense if we were on the cusp of being a champion. In the context of last year they make no sense.

    DRed,
    Great question. We slowly build and get ready to replace with draftees and others around KP’s age. We should get 2-3 solid seasons from them at or near their peak.

    Slowly build what? We’re giving away all the players that we could reasonably hope would improve going forward.

    DRed are you talking about Grant,Rolo and Gallo? If so, that’s sad. Grant and Gallo are loooooooong shots

    Seth Curry signed for 2 years for only 6 million? Damn. I should really be GM.

    Bruhhhh we’ve all been Knicks fans for a long time. None of our long-suffering is particularly unique. I think the median age on this website is 34.

    Last year, who were the young players with reasonable hope of improvement? KP, Grant, Galloway, KOQ… Thanasis? KP and KOQ are still on the roster. Galloway can be re-signed with Early Bird rights, up to $6.1 million AAV. If you’re upset about Thanasis… why? So that leaves Grant. People are very upset about losing Grant. Which is their right, I don’t think he got much of a fair shot. However, let’s dispense with the hyperbole.

    Priority #1 is still KP’s development. Noah is the perfect mentor for him.

    A “middling team” with players with injury histories quickly becomes a lottery team if those players get hurt again. If (or when huehuehue) If both Rose and Noah get hurt, STEALTH TANK. Having our first rounder gives a silver lining to many worst case scenarios for this team. As GoNyGoNYGo pointed out, the Knicks have EXTRA DRAFT PICKS for the first time in forever. It’s astonishing.

    Time to accept reality. There will be no blow-up rebuild, at least not the one you want with Melo getting traded. We’ve been over this many times over the years. He made a clear choice to live in NY and put his marriage and family life over winning a championship.

    Dolan also will not trade away his franchise’s marquee player, at least not this one. I think the conventional wisdom that “NY won’t accept a rebuilding team” is bullshit, but all it takes is for one man to believe it — the gravelly-voiced frontman of JD and the Straight Shot.

    Dallas is building a Golden State shadow cabinet team

    The Loyal Opposition Lineup of Death

    Grant and Gallo are loooooooong shots

    To do what? Turn into useful NBA players? Courntey Lee put up a WS/48 of .066 his second season in the NBA when he was 24. Langston Galloway put up a WS of .077 his second season in the NBA when he was 24. Galloway is a useful professional basketball player as long as he’s not making a ton of money, and he’s got a chance to have a nice career. If you are slowly building a better team you do not give away useful young players. I’d much rather have Langston Galloway for 4 years than Courtney Lee (who is a fine player)

    It’s also not just about the young guys we gave up, but about the potential opportunities to pursue more of those guys that we gave up when we did what we did instead. There are ways to use cap space other than on signing 30+ guys with long injury histories.

    Langston Galloway can still be re-signed via Early Bird Rights for $6.1 million AAV. He has not been “given away.”

    @28 “Potential opportunities to pursue more of those guys that we gave up when we did what we did instead.”

    Could you… rephrase this, please? I’m having trouble parsing exactly what opportunity cost you’re describing here.

    I hope that Galloway still comes back, but I don’t even think he’s worth the $6.1m. If he can get that or more from another team, more power to him! He really tailed off the 2nd half of last year, but he is a good guy and still might get better (but also might now be what he is).

    He really is being overrated by some of you guys, and he’s certainly not been “given away” at this point.

    If they end up giving up Galloway because they wanted to take a total flier on Brandon Jennings, that is absolutely absurd and indefensible. The Rose trade was as well.

    My point is if we’ve totally punted on actually contending within the next five years, which seems to be the case, Noah, Lee, and Jennings at their respective salaries aren’t outrageous. The goal seems to be to put together a coherent, watchable team until Melo is off the books. Those signings can at least be construed as consistent with that goal. The Rose trade cannot at all, and that’s why it totally ruins the offseason for me.

    The combined eFG% of the nine players on the Knicks’ roster– Melo, KP, O’Quinn, Lance, D-Rose, Noah, Lee, Jennings and Holiday– was .471. That is badsauce.

    That would have been good for 29th in the NBA last year, and would have been worse than the Knicks’ already cruddy .483 eFG% from last season. This offense is not gonna be a real good offense, unless a whole lot of people stop being bad at throwing the ball into the basket.

    Guys Langston Galloway outperformed last season:

    Derrick Rose
    Joakim Noah
    Brandon Jennings

    I just think all the negativity is misplaced.
    Noah will be very good.
    Rose is a one year flyer.
    Lee is good.
    Jennings is better than Grant.

    Lopez was not a difference maker.
    Gallo scared no one.
    Grant was often over-matched.
    Afflalo could not compete with big 2s and did not play sound D.
    Calderon scared no one.

    We are better today than we were at the end of the season. We still have strong cap space preserved for next season and draft
    Picks.

    Last, we have seen our new players effectively recruiting.
    With KP and Melo, this is a more dangerous team than we hoped for.

    I just don’t see the glass half empty.
    Are there risks? Of course.
    Are there potentially rewards? Yes.
    I give this offseason a B to B-.
    But given the state of the Knicks after the season end, that’s pretty damn good.

    I can’t recall when there has every been a greater reshuffling of teams than this current off season. So many teams will bear little resemblance to their last year’s iteration.. As basketball is a team game, one can confidently predict that the ability to integrate the new pieces into a cohesive unit by theplayoffs will have a significant impact on the outcomes ( eg Heat, first year of Big 3). This seems to be a new variable that advanced analytics have not addressed.
    As much as the pundits claim that Durant will seamlessly blend in with the Dubs, we won’t know until the season plays out. The impact will be even greater on other teams (Knicks, ATL) whose composition was more dramatically altered and the ability to integrate new significant players and systems to maximize their skill sets will probably play a greater role in regular season results, and to a lesser extent the playoffs than in the past.

    If they end up giving up Galloway because they wanted to take a total flier on Brandon Jennings, that is absolutely absurd and indefensible.

    Didn’t someone post the stats yesterday and Jennings came out on top at everything eventhough he was coming off an Achilles tear?

    @34
    Define “outperformed.” Noah’s a C, any comparison between him and Galloway is totally silly, anyway, but go ahead and crap on Rose and Jennings, two guys coming back from major injuries last year. BTW, I don’t like Rose and I’m not even a Jennings fan, but he’s a good signing for one year at his $.

    You do realize that the Knicks might just still resign Galloway?

    This team looks to me like a bottom-third offense and a league average-ish defense. There are simply not enough efficient scorers on the team for the offense to be much better than it was last year, and the defense really relies on Noah to be healthy and productive for major minutes. If Noah misses part of the season, the frontcourt defense which is a team strength will collapse.

    They look like a 35-37 win team to me.

    WIN NOW DOE!

    DRed,

    Are you seriously suggesting Gallo’s potential comes even close to Rose, Jennings or Noah?
    I mean that’s an incredible statement. The second half of the season we saw Gallo’s ceiling. I like guys with heart. I like guys who defy expectations. But he is a classic role player on what was a terrible team. It’s like people who gushed about Tony Douglass, or Fields, or any number of other useful role players who would simply be unable to carry a team ever.
    Rose, Jennings and Noah, have been elite players, all of whom are a season or two removed from severe injuries.
    But I’ll take the returning great to very good player over a respectable role player any day.
    This is an absurd argument.
    And Jennings and Rose are one year contracts.
    Gallo will never be a starter in the NBA for a good team. Period

    i’m pretty hopeful that hornacek can fix some efg% problems… bledsoe and dragic had career high TS% in that first year at coach… so i’m hoping his offense can generate better shots than what rose/jennings has generated….

    we’re still not going to be anywhere near league average offensively… our defense should be pretty decent tho so it doesn’t necessarily have to be… i don’t think we’re making playoffs either way…

    Guys, Derrick Rose is NOT a “flyer”. That involves not giving up assets. We gave up two of our three (maybe four) total positive assets for him. If he sucks, and we have every reason to believe he will, we lost out on Lopez (I don’t want to hear any bullshit about his contract being unmovable after this offseason) and Grant (most rookie point guards are bad, guys) for the privilege of watching him suck.

    I see This team with 45 wins minimum.

    The only teams surely better on paper are. Cleveland, Toronto and maybe Boston

    Regarding Z-man’s post about the overhyped Celtics from an earlier thread, I tend to agree. The Bucks are the perfect example as to how team improvement is not always linear, they won 41 games a few years back and were everyone’s darlings, then they picked up Greg Monroe in free agency and proceeded to suck.

    Boston won 48 games last year and got bounced in the 1st round with Isaiah Thomas and Evan Turner having career years, and now Turner’s gone and they added Horford. They may win another round this year, but I don’t see them bothering Cleveland at all.

    @42 Lopez= avg player. So you give up an avg player for a shot that a player can get close to his >.200 w/s. Days

    Are you seriously suggesting Gallo’s potential comes even close to Rose, Jennings or Noah?
    I mean that’s an incredible statement. The second half of the season we saw Gallo’s ceiling. I like guys with heart. I like guys who defy expectations. But he is a classic role player on what was a terrible team. It’s like people who gushed about Tony Douglass, or Fields, or any number of other useful role players who would simply be unable to carry a team ever.
    Rose, Jennings and Noah, have been elite players, all of whom are a season or two removed from severe injuries.
    But I’ll take the returning great to very good player over a respectable role player any day.
    This is an absurd argument.
    And Jennings and Rose are one year contracts.
    Gallo will never be a starter in the NBA for a good team. Period

    I am saying that last season Langston Galloway helped his team win more NBA games than Brandon Jennings, Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah. Also, if Langston Galloway replaced Klay Thompson he would be a starter on a team that would probably win the NBA title.

    What metrics are you using to determine that Lopez is an “average player”? How do you figure Rose has any chance play like he did five years and a million knee surgeries ago?

    Galloway is a guy who will always be underrated by the eye test crowd because he doesn’t do cool looking dumb stuff

    Let me remind everyone we were 32-50 last year.
    But more important, after being 22-22, we went 10 and 28.
    10-28.
    We were 10-28, with Lopez at center. With Gallo, Calderon and Grant and Afflalo in our back court.
    We went 10-28 with Melo and KP in front.
    This team was unwatchable with all the guys we gave up.
    As if status quo was going to improve on that.
    We picked up a recovered top 5 center.
    We picked up for one year a recovering MVP.
    We picked up a recovering dynamic guard as a back up.
    We picked up a very solid 2 guard.

    Will be better than last year.

    Galloway is a guy who will always be underrated by the eye test crowd because he doesn’t do cool looking dumb stuff

    No, this post was dumb.

    Gallo couldn’t routinely start on a team that finished 10-28!
    Reality, please.

    Yes, Langston Galloway is a very likeable basketball player with a great story.

    Has he shown any signs of being able to handle backup point? No. What are his positive attributes? Youth, upside, defense, length, work ethic… streaky three-point shot? Not a proven secondary ball-handler. Someone called him a “ball-mover” which is damning with faint praise if I ever heard it. Good, he’s not a black hole on offense. WHALE DONE.

    If you want to make the case that the Knicks should have signed someone other than Brandon Jennings to back up/handcuff Rose, like Seth Curry, Tim Frazier, Ramon Sessions, or your personal hidden gem, OK. But Gallo was not going to be that guy. Hornacek’s system, however adaptable, has always used dynamic guard play. Knicks were going to bring in someone from FA to do that.

    @33 JK47

    Is “combined eFG” a thing I’m not aware of, or did you calculate the mean of all those players’ respective eFG percentages? Any reason why you chose eFG in particular, and not TS% or WS48 or WP48?

    @34 DRed

    Very impressive that Gallo outperformed Brandon Jennings in Jennings’ first year back from an Achilles injury, and outperformed Noah’s 29 game campaign. Is there a metric you had in mind, or did your heart tell you he’s an ANALYTICS ROUGH RIDER?

    I hate that you’re motivating me to bury Gallo. I didn’t want to do it, but y’all are infected with one of the more acute cases of prospect hugging I’ve ever seen.

    Also, if Langston Galloway replaced Klay Thompson he would be a starter on a team that would probably win the NBA title.

    Wow.

    Very impressive that Gallo outperformed Brandon Jennings in Jennings’ first year back from an Achilles injury, outperformed Noah’s 29 game campaign. Is there a metric you had in mind, or did your heart tell you was an ANALYTICS ROUGH RIDER

    I don’t know how impressive it is, all I know is that it’s what actually happened.

    So, Galloway > Klay Thompson? Did I just read that?

    Frank O, thanks for reminding me that the Knicks were 32-50 last year. I was beginning to think I may have imagined it all. And imagined the horrible guard play from last year!

    Phil has blown up the worst part of the team (G) and brought in 4 new guys. Three of them are on one year deals, so he can blow it up again next offseason. Hey, I will miss Grant and Galloway (if he actually leaves) a bit, but not THAT much.

    There are valid criticisms. The team still lacks shooters; the players will likely not score very efficiently. Hopefully D and rebounding can improve a bit, though?

    @48

    Well, his career TS% is 48.9, so he’s not exactly doing the smart stuff either.

    Is “combined eFG” a thing I’m not aware of, or did you calculate the mean of all those players’ respective eFG percentages? Any reason why you chose eFG in particular, and not TS% or WS48 or WP48?

    Combined eFG% means the actual eFG% last year of all those players. As in, you figure out how many field goals they made, figure out how many threes they all made and then figure out how many field goal attempts they took, then punch it all into the handy eFG% calculator. I chose eFG% because that is one of the Four Factors and is a pretty fucking important one. Good luck having a decent offense with an eFG% that is in the toilet.

    I’m sure their composite TS% sucks too but I don’t feel like doing the math to figure it out.

    DRed
    “Also, if Langston Galloway replaced Klay Thompson he would be a starter on a team that would probably win the NBA title.”

    This statement alone disqualifies you from coaching a PAL rec basketball team, let alone as a GM.
    Wow

    @58 JK47

    Right but I don’t think that makes sense to do. For one these ppl didn’t play together. So we don’t know what synergy they will have. So as of now I think that the numbers should be looked at in a vacuum

    Also, if Langston Galloway replaced Klay Thompson he would be a starter on a team that would probably win the NBA title.

    Also, if Langston Galloway replaced Klay Thompson he would be a starter on a team that would probably win the NBA title.

    ISHYGDDT

    When Klay Thompson in Game 6 of the WCF received the ball at the top of the key, and without hesitation rose from a cross-footed standstill and sank a three pointer right in Westbrook’s eye, I immediately whispered to myself, “That was 100% Gallo.”

    I should have seen it coming. When Klay scored 37 points in one quarter against the Kings, I thought for the first time Golden State was going to be alright with him instead of Gallo at the 2. But I was just too cynical for my own good.

    Well, his career TS% is 48.9, so he’s not exactly doing the smart stuff either.

    Brandon Jennings had a career TS% of 49.5 when he was 24.

    C: Draymond Green
    PF: Kevin Durant
    SF: Andre Iguodala
    SG: Langston Galloway
    PG: Steph Curry

    Yeah, that team could never win a title

    People really didn’t understand DRed’s comment about Galloway on the Warriors, huh?

    Can we wait until we lose Galloway before complaining about losing Galloway? Like remember how calm we all were when we waited until Rambis was hired before complaining about Rambis becoming the coach?

    Clyde is a top 50 player and a HOFer, he still looks in shape. Otherwise this keeps bringing to mind the halcyon days of Omar Minaya and guys like Moises Alou, Damion Easley, Jose Valentin, even friggin’ Billy Wagner who would get injured every August, and a host of other players who had seen better days. Why we feel the need to ignore history and act as if we have re-invented the wheel is beyond me. There is not one player acquired this offseason absent the potential second round pick or Justin Holliday, I guess, that we can reasonably expect to be a solid contributor a mere three seasons from now and that is sad.

    I think DRed is taking a page out of reub’s book of having a laugh!
    🙂

    So you give up an avg player for a shot that a player can get close to his >.200 w/s. Days

    ppl still think this?

    We’re saying Gallo would never be a starter on that squad.
    it’s utterly meaningless to say it. It’s literally gibberish.

    @63 sure that team could win a title, but that says a whole lot more about Steph and KD than it does about Galloway. You could insert a myriad of competent/average combo guards into that lineup and it could win a title.

    But yes, I do like Galloway and hope we don’t lose him though I don’t see any indications thus far that we will. In fact, Phil did say he wanted to retain lance and Gallo. He’s already done lance, so it’s not unreasonable to think he’ll be able to bring back Gallo too.

    We’re saying Gallo would never be a starter on that squad.

    But, like, what if he was?

    @63

    Oh, so you meant this season. No, still a ridiculous suggestion.

    Also, the Knicks can still sign Langston Galloway up to $6.1M per year

    “C: Draymond Green
    PF: Kevin Durant
    SF: Andre Iguodala
    SG: Langston Galloway
    PG: Steph Curry

    Yeah, that team could never win a title”
    I agree. So, what the Knicks should have done this offseason was make signing Galloway priority number 1, and then acquire Durant, Iguodala, Curry and Green. Brilliant. I now see why so many people on this site want you to be the GM.

    What NBA team that isn’t the current Warriors has a better starting 5 than my hypothetical Warriors team?

    The cavs and Spurs arguably. But regardless, that line up is really good despite, and not because, of Gallo. What point are you trying to make? That having 2 of the 3 best players in the league and another top 10 guy makes your team really good? That your lineup minus Gallo and plus Klay will be unbeatable?

    Your not wrong, but your example does nothing to prove that Gallo is a valuable starter.

    OK, follow my logic here, if you like!!

    Many say we got screwed on the Rose deal. We traded 2 affordable “assets” for a washed up player who has had ample time to overcome injury, and has not. SO:
    -That means Chicago won. They are smarter than us. They screwed us on the deal.
    -They must have asked for Grant……or why else include him. So they screwed us out of Grant
    -They have assets to be competitive, with $$ to spend. They have Butler, Taj Gibson. Lopez is so good that Noah was expendable. OR: They are rebuilding. Pau walked too, Grant is a young, improving player, part of the future.
    -BUT…..their confidence in Grant was so high that they paid friggen Rondo to be their PG.

    So, either the team that outsmarted us is also stupid. OR they value Grant less than our board does. OR….Rajon Rondo is a guy you want on your team

    Also, if Langston Galloway replaced Klay Thompson he would be a starter on a team that would probably win the NBA title.

    This comment snapped the needle on the dumb meter.

    C’mon DRed. You’re better than that.

    Evaluating a player by saying something like this is useless, because it’s meaningless.

    Gallo will never be a starter in the NBA for a good team. Period

    Being a starter on a good NBA team just means that you are in the starting lineup for a good NBA team. It doesn’t mean you’re a good player. If you swap out the least productive starter on a good NBA team with a pretty mediocre NBA player most of those teams are still going to be good teams.

    Some of the arguments here are mind-numbingly ass-backwards in usage of stats and not based in any reality I’m aware of.

    I get the idea that an injured Rose/Noah/Jennings and likely Melo would end up making us a mediocre at best team. But PLEASE, consider the following assumptions:

    1. This is the big one. Please listen carefully: We were never going to trade Melo. For all we know it was a prerequisite when Phil met with Dolan. It ain’t happening.

    2. Top free agents were never going to consider coming to the New York freakin’ Knicks we’ve been accustomed to. So a ‘full’ rebuild, whatever that means, would not end up with us getting your wet dreams of Durant, Westbrook, or even Batum weren’t happening unless we were substantially better.

    3. Given the above, a REBUILD (TM) hasn’t been possible for 3 off-seasons, since we have no assets to convert to picks. We did the best we could do by getting KP et al.

    4. Given all this, the best next step, PER PHIL, especially because of #1, is to not start the rebuild now that we have future picks, but to keep our future picks while attaining low-risk and mostly tradeable contracts.

    5. Klay > Galloway. Can’t believe anyone would say otherwise. And I do get what DRed was saying.

    If Willie doesn’t sign, we need a backup Big. Who is still out there that we can afford? Meyers Leonard? Speights? Sullinger (who is under-sized) or Tyler Zeller? David Lee?

    What about at Guard, if we don’t give Gallo $6M /year, which we should NOT do? Jack? Sasha? Me?

    Ok everyone in this thread acting like young players who have shown average ish production and improvement and are relatively cost controlled at 6M a year aren’t valuable to a basketball team should probably go to the ESPN comments board instead of a board based on analytics and reasonable argument

    NO ONE IS SAYING THAT GALLOWAY IS THE SECOND COMING OR THAT HES GUARANTEED TO HAVE A LONG TERM NBA CAREER. WHAT PEOPLE ARE SAYING IS THAT THERE IS ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY NO REASON TO GIVE UP A YOUNG CHEAP PRODUCTIVE PLAYER UNLESS ONE IS ON THE CUSP OF A CHAMPIONSHIP AND NEEDS TO CLEAR SPACE.

    It’s like Phil Jackson can do no wrong or something, my god. And the straw manning of DReds comment about Klay just proves how desperate some of you people are to defend the team’s raft of mediocre to horrible offseason decisions. If Phil lets Galloway go, that’s indicative of his inability to properly value young players, which is an enormous black mark on any GM’s record–and especially *every single Knicks GM for the past 15 years.* if you can’t see that, you’re fucking blind

    @83 Willy is 100% confirmed to play in NY this season. Relax mayne.

    wily is signing… it will get done once the ink dries on all of our current deals….

    What I’m getting from Wetbandits comment is that even Phil Jackson, the man with possibly the most cachet in the NBA to leverage, can’t or won’t operate outside of the Dolan imposed box that has screwed this franchise over for 15-odd years. Which means that this franchise is destined to mediocrity or worse until Dolan is in the ground or Porzingis becomes a top 15-20 all time player.

    Also FWIW Galloway outperformed Jennings decently on BPM, VORP, and WP/48

    There’s literally no reason not to keep him unless you’re making a play for Westbrook next year. In which case you renounce LT or don’t sign aging injured vets to multi year contracts before you get rid of Gallo.

    I don’t believe that Phil was forced to re-sign Melo. I believe that Phil had a win-now mindset from the day he took the job, and most of his moves align with that. He thought the Calderon-Dalembert-Jah Smith team was gonna triangulate its way to glory.

    He could have tried to get assets in return for Chandler, instead he got his win-now point guard in Calderon. He could have tried to sign-and-trade Melo for assets, instead he gave out the MMM contract. He could have tried to get assets for RoLo, instead he GAVE UP an asset for a sack of magic beans with pudding knees.

    If you took Isiah Thomas and forbade him to trade away first round picks, you’d get Phil.

    The most annoying part of these discussions over the last few days is that you know that even if the Knicks win 30 games in each of the next 3 seasons, people will still defend their boneheaded moves to sign inefficient/injured/past their prime/plain-old-bad players in the 2019 offseason.

    That doesn’t mean all of the signings are bad. But their plan really sucks.

    @84 u need to chill. First off Jennings is 26. Second Galloway may be still resigned. 3rd, you and your ilk love to lump Phil in with every other GM when he’s yet to trade away a pick.

    To my knowledge there have been zero reports of other teams’ interest in Galloway, so it stands to reason that we’ll resign him eventually. (Along with the fact that Phil said he wanted to keep him)

    Nothing has come remotely close to happening that suggests we will lose him, so why complain about losing him until it actually happens?

    Ugh. Man. People are just dug in to hate every move. It is what it is

    @84

    What some other people are saying is that Galloway can still be re-signed to said $6M AAV, so please stop jumping out of plate glass windows and burning Phil Jackson in effigy as if he already signed somewhere else.

    Also, it’s a little ironic to cry “strawman”, yet everyone who isn’t a shambling PTSD case regarding this three-ring circus of a franchise is somehow “fucking blind” or somehow delusional. This isn’t a Lincoln-Douglas debate, put that laminated Sparknotes binder insert on logical fallacies away, dude. FOH

    i would say way more ppl are going gaga over mediocre moves… it is like ppl haven’t actually paid any attention the last two years to think that rose and noah are rescuing this team from anything….

    To everyone talking about how we have no picks so rebuilding was impossible. You realize that that’s been the rationalization every year since the Ewing trade, right?

    Look at how many former basically trash heap players just got sizeable contracts. Whiteside, Allen Crabbe, Tyler Johnson, Kent Bazemore, Lance Thomas, Cole Aldrich, Biyombo, E’Twaun Moore, Evan Turner, Jordan Clarkson

    All dudes who could have been acquired for next to nothing and signed to a near minimum long term deal at some point in the recent past.

    Wouldn’t it be awesome if we had a player with talent like that signed for like $1.5m year? Wouldn’t having any one of those players on a multi-year near minimum contract immediately make that player the third best trade chip on the Knicks after KP and Melo?

    The Rockets basically managed to trade Rafer Alston for James Harden. What we’re doing is essentially trading James Harden for Rafer Alston. We’re acquiring assets that will become worse over time. Other teams are doing the reverse.

    Yeah, and Vlade Divac and the one or two GM’s before him did a good job of not trading their draft picks and guess what *the Kings are a terrible team and have been for the last decade or so*

    A GM not fire saleing their first round picks is not worthy of paise-it should be expected of any GM.

    Yes, not giving away first rounders like candy is basic expectations. Yet NY has failed that standard for 15 years. So I’m going to get a little bit excited that the Knicks aren’t doing that anymore. YOU CAN’T TELL ME HOW TO LIVE. I’ll celebrate what I want to.

    Doug,

    I used the word “if” when talking about whether or not Phil would trade Gallo. I’m calling people blind when they act as if any young unheralded player can be cast off to the scrap heap in favor of a equally mediocre or slightly better veteran. When they act like that, they’re betraying how little they know about player evaluation, and blind fan optimism and general basketball ignorance are part of the problem when it comes to the Knicks. These are the people who are going to be buying tickets to see a 21M PG have a sub .54TS.

    It’s fine to have measured optimism regarding this team–just don’t pretend that it’s gonna be anything more than a flash in the pan, just like the 54 win season was. Sure, it could, by some miracle, lead to sustainable success, but it’s far more reasonable to assume it won’t, given the contracts tendered and our recent franchise history. Why is not fine is apologizing for every Phil Jackson move, no matter how boneheaded because RINGzzz and POINTSSS and POST INJURY UPSIDE

    Phil can make good moves–he’s made a few (Jennings, RoLo). But they’re only good in the context of his short sighted shitty plans to make this team the late 2000s/early 2010sAtlanta Hawks–an emblem of mediocrity where a star player (Horford, Porzingis) wastes away his best years

    most bad basketball teams consist of generally non-starting talent players assembled around one or two decent players.
    The fan base then must find something to cheer for.
    But in the end the assembly of mediocrity has a terrible record, again 10-28 down the stretch, and we find people making arguments about certain favorites among the mediocre and whether they add value.
    Value for what?
    On this new team, Gallo would be three deep at the 1 and likely three deep at the deuce.
    He’s inexpensive, but he should be. Frankly, if we can assemble a better team than last year, and we have, then his minutes should be greatly diminished.
    And if his minutes, and therefore his production, are down, he’s no longer a good value, is he?
    What I’m saying is, if he does okay, but the team over all sucks, his value should be diminished anyway.
    Ascertaining value should include the teams’ overall performance if that player played a lot of minutes for a shit team.

    For the record: I think it’s fine to feel however you want to feel when you’re not posting on this board. But the premise of this board is something more significant than florid displays of fandom, I think. So seeing reub and reub-lites come onto this board is tedious and useless, since if I wanted that, I could just go to ESPN.

    You know that the second word on the masthead is “humor,” right? Sometimes y’all can be a bunch of joyless fucks, I’ll say that right now.

    I’m going to keep finding ways to entertain myself on Knickerblogger dot net. I’m sorry if you don’t like it. This is the source of some of the most legendary shitposting in Knicks blogging history. This used to be Jim Cavan’s stomping grounds, Robert Silverman’s stomping grounds. If you were expecting all serious, all the time, I don’t know what to tell you.

    Which one is not like the others :

    C: Draymond Green
    PF: Kevin Durant
    SF: Andre Iguodala
    SG: Langston Galloway
    PG: Steph Curry

    I think there’s a salient difference between the optimism trolling of reub and his ilk and the hilarity of Jim Cavan

    Fwiw I think you’re funny, and you should continue posting humorously as should people like DRed and Milo. I just don’t want the serious stuff to be dumbed down by mind numbingly Panglossian optimism. No one here is arguing against the usage of dank memes or Bargnani GIFs.

    How is optimism trolling but pessimism is not ? Neither are based in fact. Anything can happen

    Difference of opinion is what makes this blog good, it’s the reason I read the blog. If I wanted to see only read fanboys posting about how awesome DRose and Melo are, I could go to ESPN. At the same time, I have a computer and internet and am perfectly capable of looking up players’ advanced stats on basketball-reference, so I don’t need to beaten over the head again and again and again about how unproductive Rose has been since his injury.

    People watch and analyze the game in different ways. You tell me that Rose is a declining player who is hopelessly inefficient and turns the ball over too much, while Grant is a young player with lots of potential who could have developed into a nice piece. I tell you that while I’m sad about losing Grant and think he’ll develop into a nice player, I also see how Rose brings a completely new skill set into our offense and will allow us to play a completely different (and in my view more entertaining) style. Neither take can be shown to be more valuable or right than the other until the games are played, and we win or we lose.

    But just because I understand what Phil is trying to do with these moves and just because I have some optimism about the team and its outlook does not make me a blind idiot who will do anything I can to construe the Knicks’ moves in a positive light (I realize that is a bit of an exaggeration of what people have been saying).

    tl;dr — diversity of opinion is important

    Reub is the only one here I’ve seen that qualifies btw. I’ve never seen anyone just be that optimistic. But I sure have seen the inverse ad nauseum

    Wouldn’t it be awesome if we had a player with talent like that signed for like $1.5m year? Wouldn’t having any one of those players on a multi-year near minimum contract immediately make that player the third best trade chip on the Knicks after KP and Melo?

    We HAVE had those players. You even listed Lance Thomas there yourself. And we DID have him for basically the minimum for 2 years. And Langston Galloway was on this team for 2 years at the minimum. Could we have signed them both for longer? Sure – that was one of the things I wrote in that ridiculous letter to Dolan. Thomas probably would’ve signed for just about anything, whereas if I remember correctly, Galloway did not want to sign a multi-year minimum deal or a deal with a nonguaranteed second year. Takes 2 to tango.

    I really like Langston Galloway but like Doug, I find it amazing that there is this much angst about him. He is NOT going to be a bargain on this next contract. It’s most likely he’ll be fairly compensated, will probably make 5-6MM/year, which is great for him – he’ll deserve every hard-won penny. But he will no longer be a bargain for what he offers. Thanks to the P&T article, I understand now that all we did with the rescinding of a QO is lose the right of first refusal in case someone poison pills the contract. If someone did a Tyler Johnson-like offer sheet for him, it would be ridiculous to match that for a guy who is probably at best a 4th guard on a good team. I’d much rather troll the D-league or Europe to find a guy who can give me 85-90% of his production at the vet’s minimum.

    Honestly – even if you valued continuity, would you rather have Sasha Vujacic at the minimum on year-to-year deals or Langston galloway at $6MM x 4 years as your 4th guard? I’d probably choose Sasha all things considered. (btw this is almost certainly what is going to happen)

    Man, lively board today.

    Brandon Jennings, Brandon Jennings. Yeah. Well.

    It certainly fits this offseason’s aesthetic. But I don’t have a medical degree so I guess I won’t bother commenting.

    Nobody should try to shut anyone else up. Is a difference of opinion and free speech not welcome here?

    While I just don’t post as much as Reub, I am leaning towards his optimistic perspective at this moment in time. I’ve been on this board for a while and I’ve read lots of criticism of Knick management for a long time. Almost all of it merited. The only solution I ever believed in to rebuild is as follows:

    1) Stop trading away draft picks.
    2) Start collecting draft picks.
    3) Try and find lightning in a bottle with free agency.
    4) Remain patient
    5) Use the picks well
    6) Have them develop surrounded by a winning culture.

    That’s the path Phil is on. I don’t know how it will turn out, but he tried. As long as those picks stay with us, Phil has not strayed from the path.

    Meanwhile Twitter is telling me that the Knicks just signed something named Mindaugas Kuzminskas to a 2 year deal.

    his DX profile starts off thusly:

    Mindaugas Kuzminskas, while an unwilling rebounder and defender

    wonderful.

    quick troll of his stats = scorer, not much else. TS high 50s. Looks like average Euro 3 point shooter.

    Did the Warriors really pick up Zaza for $3M?

    Curry
    Thompson
    Green
    Durant
    Zaza
    Iguodala
    Livingston

    How the hell do you beat this team? 6 of their best 7 can be a primary ball handler. Ffffffffffffff

    Zaza is underrated. Strong post defender, will do the Bogut job for them for pennies on the dollar.

    I really like Langston Galloway but like Doug, I find it amazing that there is this much angst about him. He is NOT going to be a bargain on this next contract. It’s most likely he’ll be fairly compensated, will probably make 5-6MM/year, which is great for him – he’ll deserve every hard-won penny. But he will no longer be a bargain for what he offers. Thanks to the P&T article, I understand now that all we did with the rescinding of a QO is lose the right of first refusal in case someone poison pills the contract. If someone did a Tyler Johnson-like offer sheet for him, it would be ridiculous to match that for a guy who is probably at best a 4th guard on a good team

    Here are some of the guards in the last 20 years who had a lower or equal WS/48 to Langston’s in their corresponding age 24 season:

    1. Ray Felton
    2. Jamal Crawford
    3. Brandon Jennings
    4. Evan Turner
    5. Derek Fisher
    6. Brandon Knight
    7. Iman Shumpert
    8. Eric Snow
    9. Delonte West
    10. Goran Dragic
    11. Steve Nash
    12. Norris Cole
    13. Jose Calderon
    14. Ricky Rubio
    15. Damon Stoudemire
    16. Jarret Jack
    17. Moe Williams
    18. J.R. Smith
    etc etc etc

    At least one of these gentlemen actually was a starter for a team that actually won an NBA title, many started for very good teams, and at least one of them is going to go into the Hall of Fame.

    Zaza is underrated. Strong post defender, will do the Bogut job for them for pennies on the dollar.

    There really won’t be many GSW possessions that don’t end in a Curry, Thompson or Durant three-attempt, or a dunk/layup by a frontcourt player. Zaza’s offensive rebounding plus ultra-high-efficiency shooters means a lot of blowouts this year.

    Here are some of the guards in the last 20 years who had a lower or equal WS/48 to Langston’s in their corresponding age 24 season….
    At least one of these gentlemen actually was a starter for a team that actually won an NBA title, many started for very good teams, and at least one of them is going to go into the Hall of Fame.

    So what you’re saying is that if someone DID offer Galloway at 4 year 50MM contract like Tyler Johnson, you would want to match it?

    Because that’s really the only thing that has changed from yesterday — that we can’t do that anymore. But we can still give him up to a 4 year ~25MM contract. Would that be considered a good signing?

    So I guess this Lithuanian guy is getting the room exception?

    Still would’ve liked to snatch Gentile from the Rockets but oh well

    From Synergy Sports:

    Mindaugas Kuzminskas was tremendous last season shooting an eFG% of 74% in transition, 58% on spot up Js, and 53% going 1-on-1 in the post.

    I’m not an orthopedic surgeon either but these seem like very good numbers. Just by himself he’ll drag our “team eFG” up, amirite?!?

    I trust Phil on this signing, by all accounts our/his international scouts have been excellent

    So seeing reub and reub-lites come onto this board is tedious and useless, since if I wanted that, I could just go to ESPN.

    Pretentious much?

    No, what I’m saying is that some of you don’t understand that Langston is a player with a chance of being a good NBA player who is also decently productive at the moment. And that is absurd to state that he will never start for a good team. Langston at 12 mill a year seems like an overpay based on his current production, but over the length of the deal it’s probably not much of one. Gerald Henderson just got signed for 2 years, 18 million. And that’s assuming he doesn’t improve, just that he doesn’t decline. Would I match that now if I were Phil? I don’t think so, given the current roster (I think it would ruin a good chunk of our cap next year, although cap shit is not my area)

    4 for 25? Sure. I think that would be a good deal.

    From RealGM:

    Kuzminskas had recently signed a multi-year deal with Darussafaka Dogus of Turkey.

    Lemme get this straight.
    A dude named Mindaugus was playing for a team called Da-russa-fucka Dogus?
    I love Europe.

    Wonder if he could be a Lithuanian Derrick Williams I.e score in transition, throw down big dunks. That’d be useful for us

    “Team eFG” in scare quotes like it’s not actually a thing

    lol sort of like how random dudes at Knickerblogger already know for sure the health status of previously injured players without knowing anything about sports medicine. Orthopedists are useless. Sad!

    Looks like Mindaugus is getting the room exception.

    Per Fran Fraschilla: “Tremendous kid, athletic high energy wing, tough, improved shooter, great bench/locker room guy”

    Per Berman: “European scout here at summer league says Kuzminsaks is “NBA player”. Compared him to Gallinari skills.

    You know that the second word on the masthead is “humor,” right? Sometimes y’all can be a bunch of joyless fucks, I’ll say that right now.

    Humor is inportant. It’s been gallow’s humor, perfected by Cavan, that got us through a lot of these dark years.

    I actually enjoy having reub here because he is legitimately funny. (At first I thought he was just insane, but I’ve warmed to his character and actually find myself laughing out loud at some of his posts).

    That was always my problem with ruru. He just never makes his posts, or his persona here, any fun to read.

    I’ve liked the threads here lately. I like having the NYK conservatives and liberals face off. It makes for interesting banter. (Until the season starts, that is, and the optimists go into their caves to hibernate for yet another winter:)

    @127 that was my thought too. The highlight video I just watched had him catching alley-oops and cutting hard on the baseline. If he’s DWill with a reliable jumper that works for me.

    So likely roster now looking like:

    PG: Rose, Jennings
    SG: Lee, Holiday
    SF: Melo, Mindaugus, Lance Thomas
    PF: KP
    C: Noah, KOQ, Hernangomez

    +/- guys –> Galloway, Ron Baker, some other summer league dude?
    Looks like a much more balanced roster than last year.

    Video on Mindaugus looks like he could be a reasonable stretch 4 with a handle.

    on 2nd thought – if Gallo is willing to come at some sort of discount, say 2-3 years at $4MM or less, we should sign him. Good for trades if nothing else. He might not want that though.

    We still need another big guy in addition to Hernangomez. I think OQ and Thomas will do fine as 4’s, but I’d like to have another guy who can play the 4/5 as a break in case of emergency guy. I actually wouldn’t mind Seraphim in that role, but I’d prefer D Lee to relegate OQ to that role

    lol sort of like how random dudes at Knickerblogger already know for sure the health status of previously injured players without knowing anything about sports medicine. Orthopedists are useless. Sad!

    Would you at least admit that Rose’s suck quotient has been remarkably high for the last two years? Do you need a medical degree to say that his TS% is the very definition of “should be in the NBDL?”

    Would you at least admit that Rose’s suck quotient has been remarkably high for the last two years? Do you need a medical degree to say that his TS% is the very definition of “should be in the NBDL?”

    lol –
    agree with the first part

    re: his TS, not great but about the same as HoFer Langston Galloway.

    This dude reminds me a little bit of Dunleavy. Gotta love those euroscouts!

    Gallo really is a must to return giving the injury history of the two PGs on the roster and the unproven skills of Holiday. Gallo should be the back up 2 guard and backup Pg on nights one of Jennings/Rose are out.

    Also, if Dion Waiters could start some games and play over 2000 minutes for OKC why couldn’t Gallo. Even if he gets $6m, which I doubt, he’ll be a good value pick. E’Twaun Moore just signed a 4 yr/$34m contract and I’d take Gallo over him.

    I just watched five minutes of Mindaugas Kuzminskas on Youtube (limited sample size, to the extreme). He reminded me of a poor man’s Tom Chambers. That would be a great get.

    Frank O. —

    I think the Knicks will win more games this year than they won last year. I don’t think that is really what the debate here is about. The question is, will the Knicks win more games 3 years from now than they would have won had they made different decisions this off season? It’s the long term planning that remains the issue with the Knicks. Not their ability to throw money at other team’s players during a week in July. That was never in question.

    Kuzminskas is a sneaky signing. He had a breakout session with Malaga last year in Euroleague and in Spain. He may be able to do some work on the SF /PF. Or he bombs like Vesely did at Washington.

    lol –
    agree with the first part

    re: his TS, not great but about the same as HoFer Langston Galloway.

    not great = terrible

    Langston Galloway: rookie-scale contract so far
    Derrick Rose: cost a bargain-basement center, another cost-controlled rookie (who was bad but worth developing), and $21.9M; if he scores over 20 ppg this season (at any TS%) he will get another max deal, likely from the Knicks

    I think the Knicks will win more games this year than they won last year. I don’t think that is really what the debate here is about. The question is, will the Knicks win more games 3 years from now than they would have won had they made different decisions this off season? It’s the long term planning that remains the issue with the Knicks. Not their ability to throw money at other team’s players during a week in July. That was never in question.

    True – but it’s also of value to have a team that is winning – for culture, for fans, etc. We all knew 2012-13 was a 1 year deal but it was still a really fun experience.

    This team probably has at least 2 years of good to very good basketball. Depending on what happens with Rose or another FA PG next summer (CP3?), it could be great basketball. We have all our draft picks going forward so the ability to add young cost-controlled talent is there. Let’s just ride with it and hold off worrying about 3 years from now at least until next year…

    if he scores over 20 ppg this season (at any TS%) he will get another max deal, likely from the Knicks

    Since there’s really no benefit in retaining Rose’s bird rights, I think it’s REALLY likely the Knicks renounce his bird rights and talk to CP3 and Westbrook first. If they say no to max $ with NY, and Rose plays pretty well and stay healthy, then it’s not outrageous to give Rose a deal. Not megamax, but some sort of deal.

    btw I don’t think Phil really is a pointzzzz guy. Look at the players he has signed this offseason other than Rose. Neither Noah nor Lee are pointzzzz guys — they’re both low-usage guys who do defense and the little things well. And if Phil understands anything, it’s how parts of a team work together. He may not be a great negotiator, but I think he very much understands how much the other non-pointzzzz skills are important.

    I claim first anagram for Mindaugas Kuzminskas:

    Amazing dunk, kiss us ma!

    If this doesn’t work out next year David West is gonna sign with the Uconn women’s team

    The point isn’t that Galloway doesn’t have potential. The point is that whatever potential he has is similar to dozens of players available for the same or less. He’s not a guy to get worked up about. And yes, we can go over the cap to sign him if no one else wants him(funny how he isn’t getting snapped up…you’d think some rival GM would see what we don’t.) And if someone does, that opens up a roster spot for another D-League standout to fill the 5th guard spot, probably just as well or better at a lower cost.

    Oh wait, I forgot, he’s better than Derrick Rose.

    I MEAN IT’S DERRICK ROSE, EVER HEARD OF HIM?

    Excuse my positivity but i have to say that our SL team tonight actually plays…

    [i really don’t dare to write this heretic word!!!!!]

    ….GOOD !

    So now we have Porzingis, Kuzminskas, Holiday, Hernangomez, O’Quinn and Baker in the “young guys with upside” category.

    We have Melo, Lee and Lance in the “solid, healthy veteran category.”

    We have Noah, Rose and Jennings in the “injury risk but if healthy can fill glaring need at a high level” category.

    We have 3 open roster spots.

    Not bad!

    We HAVE had those players. You even listed Lance Thomas there yourself. And we DID have him for basically the minimum for 2 years. And Langston Galloway was on this team for 2 years at the minimum. Could we have signed them both for longer? Sure – that was one of the things I wrote in that ridiculous letter to Dolan. Thomas probably would’ve signed for just about anything, whereas if I remember correctly, Galloway did not want to sign a multi-year minimum deal or a deal with a nonguaranteed second year. Takes 2 to tango.

    Lance and Galloway aren’t the only two guys worth gambling on. If you sign these gamble type players to one year deals, what you are doing essentially is making yourself a farm system for the rest of the league. It’s like buying a stock where if it goes up, you have to pay its new value. How can you ever make a profit with those terms?

    The point is that whatever potential he has is similar to dozens of players available for the same or less.

    There were 17 guards in the league his age or younger who put up a .077 WS or higher and played 500 minutes+. Most of them were first round draft picks. There aren’t guys his age or younger with his record of productivity growing on trees.

    Would you at least admit that Rose’s suck quotient has been remarkably high for the last two years? Do you need a medical degree to say that his TS% is the very definition of “should be in the NBDL?”

    He has sucked big time. But it is reasonable to say that Phil did not trade for him based on the production of his last two years. I consider unlikely that he improves from there, but well, I dont know the future, and i am no doctor. I hope that the Zen master took this decision with the advice of the medical staff and not based on reading the future in the tea leaves (or any other kind of leaf).

    Knicks going to OT. Summer Knicks, of course. Clyde wants to escape.

    Man, if we had just not signed Noah and not traded for Rose, I would have really liked this offseason.

    kusminkas and holidary are 27… oquinn’s 26… there’s not any upside with those guys…

    Unfortunately I think listing Baker as a young guy with upside is wishful thinking. He’s young(ish), sure, but he’s an undrafted, undersized 2guard who’s put up pretty miserable numbers in the summer league so far. He’s no lock to make the roster, let alone contribute in any meaningful way.

    One guy I like on our SL team is Chasson Randle. I watched him play at Stanford many times throughout his four years there and he has some upside as a quick score-first point guard. I could see him developing into a nice option as a 3rd guard. His absolute maximum ceiling is probably some approximation of Leandro Barbosa’s role on the Warriors last year. In fact, today is I think the first summer league game this year in which he’s gotten meaningful minutes and he’s put up 24 points on 8-15 with 6 steals.

    I mean he might not even make it to training camp, but of all our SL guys he’s the one I’m watching the closest.

    There should be tolerance and understanding on this board. Never censorship. Unless someone suggests we resign Kevin Seraphin.

    Phil looks to be done scouring North America for talent and now is acquiring the very best players that Europe has to offer. Latvia, then Spain and now Lithuania. This kid has game. Our Galinari, Nowitzski and Chambers all rolled into one long, lean bundle of excitement! Let’s all look towards Montana and say “Thank you Phil for giving us the best New York Knickerbocker team since, well, you played here.”

    “kusminkas and holidary are 27… oquinn’s 26… there’s not any upside with those guys…”

    Have you seen Kusminskas jump through the roof? That’s what I call real upside!

    So now we have Porzingis, Kuzminskas, Holiday, Hernangomez, O’Quinn and Baker in the “young guys with upside” category.

    We have Melo, Lee and Lance in the “solid, healthy veteran category.”

    We have Noah, Rose and Jennings in the “injury risk but if healthy can fill glaring need at a high level” category.

    We have 3 open roster spots.

    Not bad!

    30-35 wins is gonna be real hard on you this year. I will be here for support.

    My advanced analytics :
    I feel 200%PU* for the upcoming season
    and 2,5 YYY* for our two last signings.
    Eating 4 different kinds of ice cream may played a serious part on my 1000% OOTM*

    *PU-Pumped Up
    *YYY-Yupi YaYa
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOyFktGqSjM
    *OOTM-Optimism Over The Mountain

    When will the o/u for the NBA come out? I’m ready to pound the Knicks under

    What are we going to argue about if the Knicks sign Galloway to a reasonably priced four year deal?

    According to a certain gambling website, we’ve got the Knicks with 75-1 odds to win the Finals. The Raptors, who made the Conference Finals, have 60-1 odds.

    The over is going to be quite high. I am very, very excited about this.

    Once we all agree that my take on Galloway is 100% right then there will be no more fighting

    @171
    If we find 2-3 more euro-studs and convince David West to join us for vet minimum by giving him Phil’s used ring from the 1973chip we may upgrade our chances !

    Sign or not sign galloway for a reasonable price won’t stop the War in here.
    It’s inevitable…

    Two more nice signings. Still waiting on the big one, though. Once Phil signs and trades Galloway for Klay Thompson!
    🙂

    Back of the napkin win projections stamping in about 1800 minutes apiece for rose and noah… we are at 40-42 wins….

    There were 17 guards in the league his age or younger who put up a .077 WS or higher and played 500 minutes+. Most of them were first round draft picks. There aren’t guys his age or younger with his record of productivity growing on trees.

    And what about guys who would have put up those shitty numbers but were glued to the bench on good teams (as Galloway surely would have been) or toiling in the D-League or playing overseas?

    Dime a dozen, dude.

    I cannot wait to hear Clyde try to pronounce Mindaugas Kuzminskas

    I like them trying European guys. Nice return from a risk/reward standpoint (if they suck, they don’t make a ton of money, but if they’re good, they’re good). They’re akin to top of the market D-League players (like Jamychal Green).

    Speaking of Green, what’s Memphis’ plan, by the way? The majority of that team is still pretty old. Re-building around Conley and Parsons seems a bit optimistic of them.

    All of you gamblers will be running and hiding from your bookies by the. End of the season

    grizz don’t have much choice with gasol and now conley…. in that context it’s not bad to grab parsons although i feel like they were a few years too late on finally getting a dependable shooter….

    And what about guys who would have put up those shitty numbers but were glued to the bench on good teams (as Galloway surely would have been) or toiling in the D-League or playing overseas?

    Dime a dozen, dude.

    There were 44 guards in the NBA who played minutes and had a WS/48 higher than Langston. That’s nothing special, but if you think it’s a d-league rando number you’re flat wrong

    “Speaking of Green, what’s Memphis’ plan, by the way? The majority of that team is still pretty old. Re-building around Conley and Parsons seems a bit optimistic of them.”

    Well it certainly looks worse/devastating when GSW just took a big dump on everyone with KD.

    The vast majority of FGA on this team are going to come from Derrick Rose and Carmelo Anthony. That is a pretty large eFG% hole to dig out of so I don’t know if Mandingus Funkmaninal and a rookie Willy H are going to be able to counteract that on their own.

    Dang, if it wasn’t enough signing KD, Warriors are now looting cheap vets.Pachulia for 3 mil and West for vet minimum. That team will wither be a record breaking juggernaut or fall flat on its face… No middle way…

    Golden State won’t fall on their face. This team will be as good as advertised. They blow the Heat’s big 3 out of the water.

    the shooting will be absolutely insane. curry/klay/iggy/durant/dray is the GOAT death lineup

    The vast majority of FGA on this team are going to come from Derrick Rose and Carmelo Anthony.

    No it will be KP and Melo. Remember him, or nah? Derrick Rose and Jennings job is to make sure that these two have a sky high efficiency. In Roses case that will involve him finishing at the rim of course. Hopefully in our small lineup with KP and Melo at the 4/5 there will be no one in the lane to help on Rose

    There is never a guarantee in sports. Miami was supposed to become a dynasty. Didnt happen. OKC was supposed to be the team of the future in 2012.Didn’t happen.Lakers were supposed to be in the finals with their Nash/Kobe /Artest /Pau /Howard HOF lineup. Didnt happen also. Even last year after the 73 wins season GSW was considered a steamroller to repeat. Not happened.Wait and see…

    Steph Curry is 2 times MVP in a row but i feel that in the playoffs he’s half the player he is in the reg.season.
    He didn’t even won the Finals MVP award last season despite playing w/o KIrving.
    And on this year’s playoffs he choked hard vs OKC and the only reason that he played in the finals is named ‘Klay’.
    So…personally i don’t consider them as the ULTIMATE FAVORITE as everyone says.
    Not to say that SKerr sucks as a coach.
    Coach of the year ?
    Because the 3s were goin in ?
    com’on…
    Terry Stotts is “the man”.

    The Warriors full heel turn is complete now. I can’t wait for them to start whining about lack of respect

    Billy Donovan stole SKerr’s wallet&underwear until Klay got them back for his coach…[of the year] by scoring 3s from all over the universe !!!

    Derrick Rose took 16 shots/game last year. Do you actually think that he’s going to significantly decrease that amount? To the point that he’ll be 3rd on the team in FGA? Especially for a guy whose entire value is wrapped up in him having and shooting the ball?

    D Rose, Noah, KP, Lee, and Melo will prove you all wrong this year. I’m drinking the kool aid, fellas. Sign me up for 48 wins. KP is gonna tear the league up post ASB and that is going to push our team to a new level.

    In all honesty I expect 34 wins.

    Our opponents won’t even be able to figure out what we’re saying when we run rings around them. We’ll be speaking languages they never heard of. And that’s just Derrick Rose I’m talking about.

    At this point, the David West signing was pretty meaningless. He still plays well when he plays, but he barely plays. And he is especially out of place on a fast-paced team like the Warriors. This sounds more like Mitch Richmond on the Lakers than anything.

    Just read something. Willy H. His first name is pronounced “Billy”

    I mean he’s much better than Anderson Varejao who got minutes in the finals (and was the worst player on the court game 7). So I wouldn’t call it meaningless

    Okay, not meaningless, but pretty close to it. Zaza, though, was a huge get for just $3 million.

    @202 “We’ll be speaking languages they never heard of”

    EPIC !

    Idk bro. Neither do you

    Well then I guess none of us should be talking about anything then.

    Zaza at $3M is the best contract given out this summer. He could have easily gotten $14M AAV and he needs to fire his agent.

    We know their best 5 will be with Draymond at C, but it’s important that they not put excessive miles on him in the regular season I think, particularly if this is a 5-year vision they have for this team. Just from that perspective having a bit of veteran competence at the big spots will be huge for them. Draymond is probably the guy whose skillset they have the least protection for now. I think they could win the title without Curry next year (might even be favorites to be honest), but I’m not sure without Dray.

    Players are going to the Dubs to ride their coattails to glory. These are not real men. Knick players don’t do this stuff.

    There’s only one ball to play with so we’ll see how Golden state learns to share and which stars will live with taking less and less shots. It may not be the cakewalk to the title that it seems right now.
    They’re “likeability” just took another hit

    Our opponents won’t even be able to figure out what we’re saying when we run rings around them. We’ll be speaking languages they never heard of. And that’s just Derrick Rose I’m talking about.

    Do you mean Rose had a stroke and is speaking in tongues now?

    Does OKC have their own pick next summer? Let’s trade them Rose + filler (I dunno. O’Quinn? Our recently acquired 2nd round pick? Salaries don’t need to match, they’ve got space.) for Westbrook. They can tank for the lotto, and we’ll have Westbrook! He might even resign if it works out well!

    KD going to the Warriors is great. Who doesn’t love a heart warming sports tale of a fucking juggernaut team winning multiple titles?

    As for the Gallo talk, I hate to be a fence sitter on this one, but both sides make pretty decent points. Would love to keep him on board, if not for the sake of continuity, but where he is at the moment he’s really a dime a dozen. He definitely plateaued, but when it’s all said and done, last year really was a rookie year for him so to speak; so not unreasonable to believe he could improve. Based on that, I wouldn’t have an issue with keeping him around. I can definitely see why people would want to retain guys like Gallo and Grant despite their numbers given our history of letting good prospects go.

    Players are going to the Dubs to ride their coattails to glory. These are not real men. Knick players don’t do this stuff.

    This kind of shitposting is neither entertaining nor productive. Please stop.

    Cock Jowles, Betting the Under in 2017

    This kind of shitposting is neither entertaining nor productive. Please stop.

    lol

    Players are going to the Dubs to ride their coattails to glory. These are not real men. Knick players don’t do this stuff.

    Alternative hypothesis: Knicks are unwanted.

    Real ruff rydahz like Noah and Melo like to play on horseshit, losing-ass teams with no hope of winning a title, because the ryding is just that much more ruff

    where he is at the moment he’s really a dime a dozen

    So last season there were 129 guards who played 500+ minutes in the NBA. Galloway was better than, I dunno, about 80 or 90 of them last year. Galloway is also likely to at least get a bit better. How is that a dime a dozen?

    Plain and simple the Knicks need to bring Galloway back. This guy is a guard who can shoot and play a transition game and a 4 year deal gets us his age 25 – 28 seasons which is very likely to be the best basketball he plays and at $6M a year in this new salary cap, that is a bargain. It’s a no brainier to retain Galloway.

    Plain and simple the Knicks need to bring Galloway back. This guy is a guard who can shoot

    TS% of .489 and .490 his first 2 seasons in the NBA says otherwise.

    A guy name Cock Jowles is telling others to stop posting now.

    “You can’t handle the truth.”

    Here’s a letter to the New York Post
    The worst piece of paper on the east coast
    Matter of fact the whole state’s forty cents
    In New York City fifty cents elsewhere
    It makes no goddamn sense at all
    America’s oldest continuously published daily piece of bullshit

    Langston Galloway also shoots about 34% from 3 point range and averages 5 rebounds and 3.5 assists per 36 minutes with a low turnover rate (about one turnover every 36 minutes). If you let that guy get most of his minutes next to Brandon Jennings or Derrick Rose so he can play off the ball, you have yourself a player. He’s young and inexperienced enough to change his shot selection.

    I’m wondering how this team compared side by side to the 2013 Knicks. We can’t be that much worse than Felton, Kidd, Shump, Melo, Tyson Chandler, JR Smith, Prigioni, and K Mart from a shooting efficiency standpoint, can we?

    The 2013 Knicks had six rotation players who posted a TS% north of 58. The 2016 Knicks might not have one.

    So last season there were 129 guards who played 500+ minutes in the NBA. Galloway was better than, I dunno, about 80 or 90 of them last year. Galloway is also likely to at least get a bit better. How is that a dime a dozen?

    Don’t get me wrong, would love to see Galloway back. He definitely has the potential to get better, but all I am saying is that if you loose Galloway then it probably isn’t hard to replace what he produced last year or find guys with a similar skill set. Where he probably stands out from those other guys that makes him more valuable is probably on the known commodity front. We know what he is capable of, so it’s probably not unreasonable to invest in what are going to be his prime years of development.

    @208 vincoug

    Don’t say dramatic things. No one’s trying to censor you. We can always talk about it. But we can do without claiming anyone knows exactly how this season will play out.

    @216
    >2016
    >complaining that shitposting is shitty
    >productive shitposting
    >mfw

    Galloway sucked, and I mean SUCKED at shooting the long-range two. He was just dismal from 16 feet to the 3-point line, and he took lots of those bad shots too: 23% of his shots were from 16 feet to the 3-point line, and he shot a sucktastic .276 on those. He excelled at shooting the corner 3, though– .475 from the corner.

    Get Galloway to stop shooting those long twos and he’d be a lot more efficient. The rest of his game is solid– he’s a very low-turnover guy who has more steals than turnovers in his career, he rebounds quite well for a guard and he is an adequate defender. I think there’s still a place for him in the rotation even with Rose and Jennings on the team.

    there isn’t a massive difference between what galloway was and thomas… only thomas is older and did it for half a season while galloway did it for two….

    From the Knicks top eight guys in MP, only 3 had an eFG% above .520 and the team’s overall eFG% that season was .515 (which was good for 8th in the league). By the four factors, the Knicks were 8th in eFG%, #1 in TOV%, 19th in offensive rebounding, and 21st in free throw rate. There is no reason to believe the Knicks can be top 10 in eFG%, but with Porzingis and Noah I think we can be top 15 in ORB% since Porzingis was quoted noting that he will have to crash the glass more often (and it fits with Phil’s 2 crash 3 flash philosophy), and we should be better at drawing fouls than that team. With Rose running the show, I doubt we can expect to lead the league in TOV% like they did.

    All things considered, I think the Knicks will be bottom 10 in eFG, top half in TOV% with Melo’s high usage/low turnover rate, top half in ORB% with Porzingis and Noah, and maybe top 15 at drawing fouls with the Rose, Porzingis, Melo triumvirate. That could give us an offense ranked around maybe 18th or so. We’ll have to bloody our opponents to death on the offensive boards and play top 5 defense if we want to win 50. I don’t think we’re a top 5 defense, though.

    I think the Knicks are likely to be a bottom 5 team in eFG%. They don’t have a center that can convert easy buckets and they don’t have a lot of real snipers who can be counted on for a .400-ish percentage from 3PT. The whole roster is populated with guys who had eFG%’s below .485, and many players with career marks in very large sample sizes near that poor .485 number. Melo’s career eFG% is .482, Rose’s is .474, Jennings’ is .453, Holiday’s is .455, Noah’s is .490 and has been much lower in recent years…

    Big Willy H has some nice eFGs across the pond. Mindzingis was around 56. You assume Porzingis has the same type leap that Dirk did in his second year that’s another high eFG.

    eFG
    u
    r
    o
    suck it haters

    What are some vet mins we can sign for these last few spots? I listed a few but I forgot two:

    Stoudemire, David Lee. Thoughts on those/other vets?

    I think the Knicks are likely to be a bottom 5 team in eFG%. They don’t have a center that can convert easy buckets and they don’t have a lot of real snipers who can be counted on for a .400-ish percentage from 3PT. The whole roster is populated with guys who had eFG%’s below .485, and many players with career marks in very large sample sizes near that poor .485 number. Melo’s career eFG% is .482, Rose’s is .474, Jennings’ is .453, Holiday’s is .455, Noah’s is .490 and has been much lower in recent years…

    How many times do I gotta define “synergy” before you all understand!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    KP’s 3 point shooting cratered last season because he wasn’t used to the workload; that was before he hit the rookie wall iirc.

    It’s not sure thing he takes a Dirk-level leap, but I do expect an adjustment. The form on his jumper is great.

    W E W L A D
    E
    W
    L
    A
    D

    How many times do I gotta define “synergy” before you all understand!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

    A bunch of guys with low eFG% + Synergy = high eFG%

    Factorial

    The Knicks are for sure likely to have a bad eFG even if Rose plays at MVP level (lol). It’s the other 3 of the four factors on offense where the Knicks look a little better. Like if we’re one of the better offensive rebounding teams in the league we’ll just extend possessions and beat teams that way if we get fouled and don’t turn it over.

    There’s only one ball to play with so we’ll see how Golden state learns to share

    Learns to share? The Warriors average 30 assists per game. They are the greatest ball moving team of their generation. I think that’s why Durant wants to play with them.

    Learns to share? The Warriors average 30 assists per game. They are the greatest ball moving team of their generation. I think that’s why Durant wants to play with them.

    Stop. You’re ruining the “too many cooks” narrative, without which there cannot be so many hot takes about whether the Warriors can “gel.”

    @235

    De Colo would be an interesting get. He didn’t exactly light the world on fire his first NBA go-round. ~36% 3PT, .52-something TS%. Pretty impressive assist and rebounding numbers, though.

    @246 Imma be runnin from him come May !!!!! just u watch and see!!!!!

    @246 clearly the only way that would happen is because you made so much money with betting the under on the new york knickerbockers that he would rather have you killed than pay out

    i’d rather take a chance on some young guys even if they are of the meh variety like ron baker or whoever else is on the SL squad… we need to fill roster spots as cheaply as possible and we can’t continually look to the older dregs of the nba…

    we eventually need to fill the ‘useful but cheap’ portion of the roster…. and constantly going to the FA well is going to weigh down the roster…. galloway fits that mold but it could be anybody….

    I don’t think we’re a top 5 defense, though.

    That’s just the thing: I think we may have a top 5 defense. Certainly top 10. Noah was the anchor of some phenomenal defenses, and Lee and Zinger are plus defenders. Melo has shown that, when committed (like last year), he is a plus defender as well. Only Rose is weak, and he has the tools to be at least adequate – not sure how likely that is, but with Noah and Zinger around the hoop, Lee protecting the 3 point line, and Melo being a heady defender who is excellent at help, it seems possible to me that by the second half of the season we will be top 5. Our bench is good, too.

    The real questions are:

    1) how quickly will we gel on D?
    2) how much can Horny get out of us on O?
    3) how healthy we will be?

    My guess is that we’ll gel on D relatively quickly, because the two key players (Noah and Zinger) are smart and will learn quickly. Probably #8-10 defense. My guess is that we’ll be middling on offense because, no, we do not have many players excellent at putting the orange ball in the circle efficiently…but still, we won’t be at the bottom, maybe #18-20 or so. And in terms of health, the resilient-as-a-cockroach Knicks fan in me is saying that Horny will manage minutes well enough to keep the team solid through the year, with Rose missing 20 games, but everyone else basically OK.

    So my early prediction (based on keeping Gallo, a solid backup guard) is:

    43-39

    Memphis Grizzlies by year:

    2010-11
    W/L: 46-36
    Efg %: 49.3
    Efg % rank: 20th

    2011-12
    W/L: 41-25
    Efg %: 47.3
    Efg % rank: 25th

    2012-13
    W/L: 56-26
    Efg%: 47.2
    Efg% rank: 28th

    2013-14
    W/L: 50-32
    Efg%: 49.5
    Efg % rank: 18th

    2014=15
    W/L: 55-27
    Efg%: 48.9
    Efg % rank: 20th.

    Efg % becomes the most important thing in basketball when the Knicks become really bad at it /knickerblogger

    The thing with the Knicks’ defense is we are likely to have a bad defender at the point of attack all season. Neither Jennings or Rose is good defensively, and at least in 2013 Pablo would steal the ball from everybody. Porzingis and Lopez on court together last year was a top ten defense, and I’d say Noah is a clear upgrade defensively over Lopez. Porzingis’ upside as a defender is ridiculous, and I think he’ll take a step forward on that end. This season we should have an amazing defensive front court, but I’ll always be concerned when Rose and Jennings are our point guards.

    It probably won’t stop us from being an excellent defense, and you never know what we’ll do on offense. Pessimistically (and realistically), our offensive eFG% will suck, but we can do better if Lee, Melo, and Porzingis can put up eFG%’s around .515 a piece and Rose/Noah regress to the mean from the two worst years of their careers offensively. I think we’ll be good at not turning the ball over and offensive boards while being average at getting foul calls. So our offense could be passable with a good to great defense. We’ll see what happens. Hornacek is the newest point guard whisperer so maybe he’ll rejuvenate Derrick Rose’s career and we can win a bunch. I think the likely outcome is we’ll have one of the best defenses in the league a la Vogel’s Pacers/Thibs’ Bulls, but the eFG% will be an issue and ultimately our fatal flaw unless Porzingis becomes an offensive superstar next season.

    Interestingly enough, the Kirk Hinrich-led 2014 Bulls were 30th in efg % and somehow managed to win 48 games starting Hinrich, Boozer and Dunleavy 70+ games.

    By the way, that was with Jimmy Butler posting a 446 efg % as a primary option, a number Melo hasn’t come anywhere near since he turned 20.

    Yeah, Noah and Butler were great defenders led by a great coach, but they started two really shitty defenders with basically 1-2 guys who could shoot.

    The Knicks may not be as good as that Bulls team defensively, though the 14 Bulls didn’t have a mobile, 7-2 shot blocker starting at power forward, but I don’t think they’ll be anywhere near as bad offensively.

    515 is an elite number, bro.

    If they’re at 500 efg % with a mean career ft rate, the Knicks will have a great offense with its low to and high orb

    Maybe we’ll be an elite defensive team like those Grizz teams, and so the bad eFG% won’t matter!

    /Pangloss

    But the Knicks won’t have a great offense. I think they can have a good one, all things considered, to go along with a good defense.

    Yes, a lot has to happen, but Melo and KP will both be getting more open 3-pt shots with Jennings and Rose.

    Vogel’s Pacers were 23rd in ORtg, 19th in eFG%, 26th in TOV%, 21st in ORB%, and 9th in FT/FTA but the defense carried them to a 56-26 actual record and a 54-28 pythagorean record.

    A bad offense isn’t the end of the world.

    “Maybe we’ll be an elite defensive team like those Grizz teams, and so the bad eFG% won’t matter!”

    Yes, because it’s absurd to think that a team led by one of the greatest defensive centers of the last decade to go alongside with an extremely mobile and long shotblocking power-forward couldn;t be pretty good at defense.

    Certainly not nearly as good as a team that started Zach Randolph inside every night.

    Memphis’ team defensive ranking over the aforementioned stretch: 8th, 7th, 2nd, 8th.

    And the Knicks might not be BAD offensively, so long as Melo is healthy.

    Those Grizz teams had some hellacious wing defenders. This Knick team, uh, notsomuch

    Courtney Lee’s career eFG% is .513, so that’s a start. We should have six plus defenders next season in Galloway, Holiday, Lee, Thomas, Noah, and Porzingis. Our defense is pretty much our only hope to make the playoffs. Without the defense, we’re screwed.

    It’s not a bad year to be screwed, though. The 2017 draft looks awesome.

    This team has about $47M of salary tied up in two one-way, offensive-oriented players, yet the consensus is “yeah, the offense is prolly not gonna be so good but no biggie”

    Some of you guys like to put up stats in a vacuum. You all point out these “career lows”, but don’t take into account that who you play with affects your stats. Kevin Durant’s shooting percentage looked a lot like Melo’s when Westbrook was hurt. All of these guys on the team will get better looks than they had last, simply because we upgraded the talent around them, KP included.

    “Those Grizz teams had some hellacious wing defenders. This Knick team, uh, notsomuch”

    Obvious point, yes. Allen, Lee, and Conley are studs.

    We have Lee. Melo is no Allen, of course, and Rose is no Conley. Not close, but neither is the frontcourt comparison.

    Noah/Kp >>>>>> Gasol/Randolph all day long.

    DeColo would have been a pretty smart signing, but unfortunately he-reupped at whatever Russian team he plays for last month and isn’t on the market.

    That’s an unfair account of what I am saying. Saying “having a bad offense is not the end of the world” is not the same as saying “oh well it’s no big deal that our offense is going to suck.” Offense is half of the game so when you suck at it, your team’s chances of success are limited. Those chances are even more limited when the lynchpin of your defense has an extensive number of injuries. All I’m saying is that our defense may be good enough to compensate for our offense. And honestly, eFG% is one of four factors. We added one of the league’s best offensive rebounders this off season and Melo and Rose have career TOV% of 11.1 and 13.3. That means we should have more possessions to attempt shots at the basket than other teams.

    “This team has about $47M of salary tied up in two one-way, offensive-oriented players, yet the consensus is “yeah, the offense is prolly not gonna be so good but no biggie”

    yes, let’s change the argument now.

    One guy might suck, or he might regain a semblance of his previous greatness.

    The other guy has consistently been the centerpiece of elite offensive play (when he’s on the floor) regardless of teammates.

    People laughing about synergies but the Warriors are like the most synergistic teams I’ve ever seen lol.

    And KP is the perfect guy to take advantage of those Kobe assists so we’re totally set!

    The Warriors also play some mind-blowingly bad basketball at times. I honestly feel like they don’t listen to Steve Kerr sometimes when they’re making behind the back passes and shooting it faster than JR Smith while down double digits.

    But now with a starting five of Curry, Thompson, Durant, Green, and Pachulia, the Warriors may never be down double digits in any basketball game they play this year.

    @265 – yes things can change depending on teammates but it’s not like rose is playing with wildly different pieces around him… butler was good.. so was pau… dunleavy for a time was also…..

    it’s not just the knicks that change… melo’s teammates and coaches have changed dramatically over his career… so has rose’s… and so has lee’s… they usually find an equilibrium based on what their preferences even with all those changes around them and year to year it’s usually follows closely to the year before….

    so looking at it in a vacuum is not always going to be accurate… but it’s going to be more accurate than assuming an arbitrary number of improvement across the board because.. synergy…. given the high number of changes… you’ll have some who’ll improve… but alot who stay roughly the same and the folks who could do worse….

    I brought up synergy because somebody calculated the team efg for a team that’s never played together.

    The other guy has consistently been the centerpiece of elite offensive play (when he’s on the floor) regardless of teammates.

    The Knicks offense was not elite with Melo on the floor any team recently. That’s not Melos fault, but let’s be real.

    Gasol was not on those teams and Rose was injured. In his stead was Hinrich, who posted a .494 TS with a 15 % to rate (with little penetration and 4.6 assits per 36).

    of course looking in a vacuum is rarely accurate. The vacuum most posters use here is the previous season, regardless of mitigating circumstances.

    Jowles and co. always use the previous season and a nebulous application of the age curve.

    The Knicks had a 107.8 offensive rating with Melo on the floor last year, which would have been good for the 9th best team ranking in the league last year.

    No, it’s not in the same hemisphere as Lebron, Paul, Durant, or Curry in terms of impact. Don’t get me wrong.

    But year-to-year, offense performs at a top 10 level (often top 5) with Melo on the floor, regardless of teammates.

    Melo is consistently in the top 10-20 in OBPM, which reinforces my point.

    His impact on offense goes beyond his merely good efficiency numbers.

    Ruru, come on. Those elite offenses put up a lot more than 108 pts per 100 possessions when their best players are on the floor. The last good Knicks team scored 114 per hundred when Melo was on the court. That’s an elite offense.

    Maybe top 10 out of 30 is not elite. But very good, however you want to define it.

    Melo’s personal OBPM is often elite, however.

    “Ruru, come on. Those elite offenses put up a lot more than 108 pts per 100 possessions when their best players are on the floor. The last good Knicks team scored 114 per hundred when Melo was on the court. That’s an elite offense.”

    Fair enough, and their OBPM is often in the +6 and above range.

    @270

    That homophobic shit doesn’t belong on this website. Do better.

    well pau was on the team last year also… with rose i hear alot of excuses but the major areas of concern are health and time.. namely 4 major injuries in 4 years and a real massive decline in play that wasn’t a one year blip… that almost always signals skill erosion…. and that trumps any other possible factor of teammates or rifts with the coaching staff or whatever other excuse you can think of….

    now coupled with that information and he is now playing with better name-brand teammates so hopefully he pumps the brakes on shooting 18fga/36… in that regard there’s some hope he can be more efficient…. but rose was never a guy who benefited from more open looks….. and he’s not exactly the type of pg that elevates the entire offense… his mvp level skill was getting to the basket and getting baskets for himself… it’s the same with westbrook…. and every other pg with high usage but low assist/to….

    so it’s really far from given that these synergies equates to better fg% across the board….

    Basketball isn’t baseball. Stats in a vacuum can help understanding, but team effects are real and not as easily quantifiable. In baseball, every event on the field is a discrete event. Chemistry on the diamond is a laughable factor. Not the case with basketball.

    Melo is a good player, but we’re not going to have a good offense without some guys who can put it through the hoop

    This team has about $47M of salary tied up in two one-way, offensive-oriented players, yet the consensus is “yeah, the offense is prolly not gonna be so good but no biggie”

    Melo is not a one-way player, and I say that as someone who is not a fan. Hated the initial trade, haven’t enjoyed his ball-stopping ways. But it’s just as real to acknowledge that he was a complete player last year, on offense and defense, before he got hurt, as “he didn’t lead an elite offense last year.” No, but it was good while he was on the floor, and meanwhile his D was solid. For a stat focused site, the knee-jerk criticism is just tiresome.

    Thanks, Chu, for fighting the good fight!

    I mean, Rose was fucking awful the last two years. Maybe it was due to injuries he’ll never recover from, as you alluded to, and he’l continue to suck at the same level he has the last two seasons.

    I don’t see ANYONE denying that that is a real, perhaps likely, possibility.

    I see Rose as a similar player to Iverson, who battled injuries (though not as serious as Rose, and who was far tougher than Rose) and had a rather large range of outcomes in terms of efficiency.

    When he came to Denver and set a career high in TS and offensive win shares (8.9) alongside Melo at the age of 32 (and much declined athletically), he was just three seasons removed from a season in which he posted a .412 efg%

    courtney lee efg >age 25 across 4 teams
    .501
    .508
    .519
    .531 (split mem/bos)
    .518
    .518

    dwayne wade – find the year lebron went to miami
    .524
    .509
    .534
    .513

    chris bosh – find the year he went to miami
    .497
    .521
    .502
    .496

    Yep, Wade had really good years with Lebron, but not career years (regardless of their relation to age).

    Bosh changed his game from mid-post slasher and extremely high ftr to excellent spread 5 3-point shooter when he joined Lebron.

    Bosh simply adapted his game and remained highly efficient despite a brand new role, which, c’mon, you have to credit Lebron.

    yea i mean iverson is a good example of where it did happen if only for a season…. efficiency improvements do occur when volume shooters take less volume and as players tend to age… jamal crawford is another example….

    Jowles and co. always use the previous season and a nebulous application of the age curve.

    I wish you wouldn’t say “Jowles and Co”, as if he has a following of sycophants and toadies backing up his posts here. He is an entity unto himself and speaks for no other posters as far as I have been able to discern. People rarely even echo anything he says here.

    It seems you want respect here, but have none for the people you try to engage.

    (Sometimes I wish Carmelo Anthony hadn’t given the Knicks that big discount, and you had to follow through with that whole self-imposed exile thing….)

    When’s the last time any of the pessimist crowd ever disagreed with Jowles? Like, even in a gentlemanly fashion?

    Some of you do the same thing when using reub as a representative figure for the non-“sky is falling” crew.

    “The need to be right is the sign of a vulgar mind”
    Albert Camus

    I started posting in this blog right after the Rose trade and really liked it/got addicted to it.
    Some of the posts i read in here bore me hard, other posts seem dumb to me and others seem funny, clever and mind opening ones.
    I disagree with many posts, i agree with others but i think the main reason for me to write in here is “communication” .
    And in order to have a better time by communicate between us “respect” is required imo.

    “For everything to be consummated, for me to feel less alone, I had only to wish that there be a large crowd of spectators the day of the Knicks’ 50th loss and that they greet me with cries of hate.”
    Albert Camus

    You are welcome here.

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