Knicks Morning News (2015.06.16)

  • [New York Post] Cauley-Stein busting knock on him before Knicks workout (Tue, 16 Jun 2015 00:36:50 -0400)

    Kentucky associate coach Kenny Payne got a text from an NBA organization Sunday raving about how well Wildcats defensive center Willie Cauley-Stein shot during his workout there. "They were floored,''…

  • [New York Times] Kerr Knows What the Warriors Face in Game 6 of NBA Finals (Tue, 16 Jun 2015 06:24:04 GMT)

    Steve Kerr’s players had never been to the NBA Finals, so only he knows what the Golden State Warriors face in Game 6.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Al Jefferson Stays Put With Hornets (Tue, 16 Jun 2015 03:39:55 GMT)

    Jefferson exercised the third-year option on his contract and will remain with the Hornets next season.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | College Basketball: Setback for Incoming Freshman at Minnesota (Tue, 16 Jun 2015 03:38:29 GMT)

    Point guard Jarvis Johnson, one of the Minnesota basketball team’s top incoming freshmen, was denied medical clearance to play.

  • [New York Times] Sports Briefing | Pro Basketball: Michael Malone Is Nuggets’ New Coach (Tue, 16 Jun 2015 03:35:27 GMT)

    Malone, who was let go by Sacramento in December, beat out the in-house candidate Melvin Hunt.

  • [New York Times] Hornets Trade Stephenson to Clippers for Hawes, Barnes (Tue, 16 Jun 2015 02:54:00 GMT)

    The Lance Stephenson experiment is over in Charlotte.

  • 84 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2015.06.16)”

    I’m totally cool with looking for hope with the future of this team. I personally am right there with everyone else coming up with scenarios in my head where they might become good somewhat soon (most involve the unlikely scenario that Russell somehow falls to the Knicks at #4). But no scenario should include THJ in them. He’s an awful, awful player. He can’t do anything but score. Anything. And then he can’t even score well! Think about that – he’s good at one thing and he’s not even actually good at that one thing! That he has an NBA career is actually kind of maddening to me right now, in part because the one thing he is supposed to be good at is something that the NBA overvalues so much that a guy like THJ can stick around because teams believe they can teach him to do other stuff all due to the fact that he has the theoretical ability to be good at scoring

    Heck, and I say this as someone who has always admired him and felt that he was the largest part of what made the Chandler trade a solid C at the time (which is how all trades should be judged, how they looked at the time of the deal), but I don’t think anyone should reasonably expect Jose Calderon to be any good next season, either. He might turn out to be good, but the amount of players his age who are terrible one year, get hurt and then come back and are suddenly good again? It is not a very large list of players. Most players in similar scenarios were just washed up.

    Brian(continuing from yesterday’s thread)…agreed. I’m just reaching for anything here. Trying to be as optimistic as possible. TH2 is not a viable NBA starter. If he finds his shot again, he’s great instant offense off the bench. But then again so is Shved. But Shved can play both guard spots. I had hoped that, since Phil said TH2 is actually 6’8″, that he would become a versatile piece. He’s becoming a wasted pick. Better trade him while a few GM’s think he still has something to offer…

    …and as far as Calderon goes, he most likely is washed up. Which sucks major because he has such a great skillset for the triangle. Part of the reason I’ve been pining for a Jordan-Melo-Carroll-Mudiay-Calderon lineup is because I know the team is screwed in the backcourt…pause. All jokes aside, besides Galloway- who do we have to look forward to seeing at guard? I like Shved and Ledo a lot, but Ledo hasn’t been able to show any consistency, and Shved’s not a starter. I really wish Melo hadn’t gotten injured because Phil would still have an opportunity to move him for another all star to build around. Now he’s REALLY an overpaid volume scorer. In the past, you could make an argument that he was worth the max. But since he sat the second half with an injury, you can’t make that argument anymore- unless he turns back the clock a few years and has a season like he did under Woodson.

    I have some hope that Calderon will get back to himself. If you look at the tracking stats he actually shot 58% in the restricted area, but shot much worse from mid-range and 3 point range than he did the year before. In Dallas he was basically a 50% 3 point shooter when open or wide open (>4 feet from defender) and with us it was more like 42ish%. Similar stuff re: the midrange stuff. It’d be one thing if he couldn’t lay the ball in anymore or wasn’t getting good shots, but he was just missing open shots, which seems like it should be the last thing to go. But if you consider missing much of the year with calf and achilles injuries, you could imagine that with proper rest/rehab over the offseason he could come back and at least be some semblance of the guy we thought we traded for– which is at this point in his career probably a 15-20 min/night guy off the bench.

    Frank, I share your hopes for Calderon, but he’s aging, of course, too. Perhaps if PJ trades down, he can dump Calderon in the process? If not, yeah, the best that can be reasonably hoped for is that he can be solid off the bench.
    If the rumors that PJ covets Monroe turn out true, I wonder if WCS is the guy who they are targeting, to get a defender between him and Carmello? I still feel that #4 is too early for him, though, if Mudiay is still on the board.

    I still have hope that all this talk about trading the pick is merely to basically hold an open auction on that pick. seems like there might be a fair amount of teams trying to trade up for Porzingis or Mudiay. As was mentioned on yesterday’s thread, unless Phil and co. think much more highly of one of the WCS/Mudiay/Porzingis/Winslow group than the others, it makes a lot of sense to trade down to Denver, either pick up an asset (or dump Calderon) and still draft one of those 4 at #7.

    One can only hope that that’s the kind of trade-down we’re talking about, and not trading it for some expensive old vet. There was some talk on Alan Hahn’s timeline yesterday about trading it for Joakim Noah. No thank you on the oft-injured, Thibs-smashed 30 year old center no matter how good a passer out of the post he is, unless it’s coming with multiple other assets and we get to dump Calderon.

    I think a healthy Calderon is a great backcourt mate for Mudiay. He can help him fine tune his PG skills and Mudiay could develop some off ball skills at the same time. Mudiay collapsing the D and kicking it out for Calderon or Melo for 3 could be a great thing

    At four, it’s either Mudiay or Justise Winslow. Nobody else has the talent and work ethic to justify that selection, IMO. I’d rather see the Knicks stay at four and pick Mudiay because the asset people think we’ll pick up in a trade will probably be a guy like Wilson Chandler who does nothing for the long term success of your team. Stay at four, take Mudiay, and give him all the support he needs to be your point guard for the next 10-12 years.

    Cauley Stein, to me, is a huge reach in the high lottery because what he does can be found for cheap or late in the draft. Rebounding and defense is still undervalued in the NBA so paying a premium for it is foolish. You use your high picks and best resources to find your franchise scorer/point guard. You’re more likely to find a Mozgov or a DeAndre Jordan late than a Jimmy Butler, and you most certainly will not find Harden/Durant/Curry type scorers past the early lottery. Mudiay types are more rare than WCS types, so if you rate them about evenly, you go with the one you don’t come by as often, and you could make the same argument with Winslow and WCS. Getting a Kawhi Leonard type is harder to do than a DeAndre Jordan/Rudy Gobert type.

    I don’t expect Calderon to get back to his peak, but he got hurt right out of the box last year and then played at less than 100% for much of the time he did play. He was way behind everyone else from day one. I don’t think there was a single point in the season where he was 100% healthy and had his skills sharp from playing. I know nothing about his injury. But if it’s the kind of thing that can be corrected with rest, I’d expect a better year next year.

    Getting a Kawhi Leonard type is harder to do than a DeAndre Jordan/Rudy Gobert type.

    I don’t know about that. I agree that not many Leonard type players slip down in the draft. I would be ecstatic if the Knicks found one. But an awful lot of teams also wish they could find the next Jordan or Gilbert. That’s not easy either.

    In workouts WCS has supposedly been showing that he’s not a total zero on offense. He has an outside shot. That makes him less of a project. He’s also an elite athlete. Not many 7 foot players are also elite athletes. He could wind up being an elite defender with more offense than Jordan or Gilbert.

    Yeah I’m on record here as saying I’d like WCS. Already elite on one end of the floor- the end of the floor we need the help on most. If the jump shot is for real he could be an Ibaka-like player. Just because Ibaka was picked near the end of the first round doesnt mean you wouldn’t pick him early in the round if he were available.

    The other thing about WCS is that he’s a little older- a disadvantage in one sense but also we have a bigger sample size on him so he’s less of a mystery, plus he is physically more mature. You may as well get as many high performance years on a rookie contract as you can get rather than basically red shirting a guy like porzingis

    Looking back on past drafts and mock drafts, it’s amazing how full of shit most evaluators are, including us. Come on, Marvin Williams over Chris Paul?

    2005: Bogut – Marvin Williams – Deron Williams – Chris Paul – Felton – Webster – Villanueva – Frye – Diogu – Bynum (David Lee #35)

    2006: Bargs – Aldridge (Ronnie Brewer #14 had a GREAT draft report)

    2007: Oden – Durant – Horford – Conley – Jeff Green – Yi Jianlian – Corey Brewer – Brandan Wright – Joakim Noah.

    2008: Rose – Beasley – Mayo – Westbrook – Love – Gallo – Eric Gordon (Robin Lopez at 15, Hibbert at 17, Ibaka at 24, Deandre Jordan 35)

    2009: Griffin – Thabeet – Harden – Evans – Rubio – Flynn – CURRY! – Jordan Hill (sigh)

    I really think this is all just horseshit, bigs are usually ranked above smaller players, and “obvious” top prospects fall ALL THE TIME. Obviously, top-drafted players have a MUCH higher chance of production than lower-drafted, so don’t go trading down unless you’re getting multiple picks (like, multiple top-10).

    And anyone who wants to use the #4 in any way to shed Calderon’s contract is not thinking far enough ahead. Picks are precious, this we learned in New York.

    If the jump shot is for real he could be an Ibaka-like player.

    I could live with that.

    You wouldn’t take WCS as a younger, possibly more athletic, Ibaka with the 4th pick? I’d be pretty happy with that if he was doing ibaka things out the box. Plus the chance that he’d get better. Not likely. But still. Better than gambling on the next Bargs or Tyreke.
    For the record, I’m still pro Zinger.
    Zinger ’15!

    Getting someone equivalent to Ibaka with the fourth pick seems a good return to me.

    yes a sample size in which he has not improved.

    If he had improved his stats significantly, he’d probably be the #1 pick.

    His WS40 seems to have improved. On some level I think you have to look at his role on these teams because he played with some very good players (Towns and Randle) and may have been used defensively away from the basket more than the typical 7 footer.

    Maybe the 4th pick is a bit of a stretch, especially compared to 1 through 3, but unless you like Mudiay, there’s a drop off to guys like Winslow and WCS etc….

    WCS’s role was limited to playing d and rebounding at KY. This was partially due to them constantly bringing in freshmen and WCS’s willingness to sacrifice stats for wins. Don’t look at his stats, look at what he was asked to do during his time there. Anybody watch him guarding Jerian Grant on ND’s last play? Well, that is WCS in a nutshell. I’ve never seen him play any o and wouldn’t draft him expecting him to start dropping 20. If you’re taking him, you’re taking an athletic Tyson Chandler.

    @17 Maybe im size biased, but i would rather Mudiay or Winslow there. I see all nba potential in those two with the all around game. WCS will not shoot threes like Ibaka but sure he can probably do most of the other things and hell maybe even develop a mid range game like Serge. The problem is that you can get a good big man elsewhere. You dont pass up on a possible great talent just for a good big man.

    Interesting stuff from Woj on WFAN:

    @TommyBeer: Woj, on WFAN radio w/ @JoeandEvan, says: “So many teams want to trade up for Porzingis, that it could change the complexion of this draft…”

    @TommyBeer: Woj also stated that the Knicks, including Phil, had “7 or 8 guys” in Vegas to watch the Porzingis workout…

    All I keep thinking with Zinger is Darko Milicic. Physical differences, yes. Darko was bigger. But the same things they said about Darko they’re saying about Zinger. For a team with a disappointing draft record like us, drafting Darko 2.0 seems about right. I have never seen anything outta Mudiay that blew my mind, but I would rather see him on the squad if only because that cantankerous bastard Larry Brown. Winslow is pretty much Jimmy Butler and I can live with that.

    If what Woj says is true (lol that I’m even suggesting it might not be), that really puts us in a great spot ie. the draft has turned from a 3 player draft to a 4 player draft. My guess is if Towns/Okafor/Russell are gone in the 1st 3 picks we will put the #4 pick up for auction and hopefully get a very nice return which includes a young cost controlled asset + pick + getting rid of Jose.

    Wait – nobody thinks we’ll take Porzingis, right?

    Or… Philly takes Porzingis to try and sell him off to the highest bidder, and Russell falls to us. I could REALLY live with that.

    The draft might really hinge on the Knicks. With guys #1-3 seemingly pretty much set (unless Philadelphia does decide to grab Porzingis), the #4 spot seems the first spot that could be had in a trade.

    Any rumors as to which teams want to trade up for Porzingis? I still hope that the Knicks don’t trade any further back than #7, if they do trade.

    Fuck it I’m just gonna go watch women’s soccer until the draft is over. That Alex Morgan is a fox.

    Frank, I just don’t think PJ will take Porzingis unless to trade him soon thereafter. He does have talent, but he’s raw, skinny, and has shown no passing skills that PJ likely covets.

    Tbh I’d rather stick with 4 and live/die by that. Sick of this team making lopsided deals. Don’t even want to give a second’s thought to trading down for this and that and dumping so and so’s salary to pick up some grass-is-greener dude. What’s that saying about dances and the girl you brought? Yeah. That.

    WINSLOW IS 6’4″!!!! I know he can play D and has a long wingspan…but where exactly is he gonna play? He has no discernable guard skills and his shoes give him an extra 2 inches in height. I don’t care about his wingspan..a 6’4″ guy can’t play SF full time in this NBA. If he had guard skills, I’d be singin a different tune. Don’t get me wrong, I think he’s a fine player. But when debating taking need vs best available talent- he fits neither criteria for this roster. Phil shouldn’t take that kinda gamble with the #4 pick. Now if, at that size he shot closer to 40% from 3, I’d definitely consider Winslow. Seems to me the decision is down to WCS or Mudiay, with Porzingis as a dark horse. Honestly- at this

    @28 If we had a 1st rounder next year I would be with you 100% But if we can trade down and pick up a 1 next year, wouldn’t you do that? I’ve already said I’d be willing to deal with the Celtics for their mid round 1st and the BK/DAL 1st next year. Buy a 2nd rounder or two this year, hope for gold or productivity. Be able to supplement this years pick with another pick next year. Real talk though, you wouldn’t do that?

    Winslow was tall enough to play PF well in college. Suggests he should be tall enough to play SF in the NBA

    Totes…he’s also a 19 year old child. I think it was …The Honorable Cock Jowles ( not sure how I feel about typing that ) that mentioned that people who are 22+ generally don’t improve dramatically in their shooting. But somebody like Winslow would probably benefit from hoops being his primary concern. That would allow him to transition to the 2. Plus he benefits by having the focus of the d on Melo, so he should be able to get space to create.

    here we go with this height thing again. It means nothing. Draymond Green is a 6’7 Center in todays nba

    @31 A mid round pick this year plus next years 1? That would depend on how the other team is playing but if it’s the nets… Well.. As bad as they are, they’re in the east. And mavs? Perennial playoff team despite being in the west. We’re looking at ’15 and ’16 mid round picks plus whoever we pick up’s salary (there’s no one I really want outside of all-star that aren’t being traded) in exchange for #4. plus oh yeah like you said we have no ’16 pick of our own so we’re kinda win-now by default because we can’t afford to lose. I feel better about picking 4 (future all-star I hope) and paying some FA role players reasonable contracts to sneak us into playoffs next season. And by win now, I don’t need a championship, just can’t be in the lottery again next year. 8th seeds good enough for me, at least for next season.

    True er, but the only reason why GS’ “small ball” lineups work is because they have quite a few guys 6’6″ to 6’9″ that can move and shoot plus handle the ball. Plus they’ve got Speights who can stretch opposing 5’s out in small ball. When you’ve got that kinda versatility and you can still play D, then your team can do some serious damage.

    Winslow dominated at the 4 despite being undersized because college players are not the 1% athletes. I worry about him playing the 4 in pros because they match up his strength and speed plus have size on him. I worry he’s not quick enough to play the 3 or 2. Especially cuz that seems to be where the premier players are atm. And green can play the 5 despite being undersized because the team plays small and he has speed to match that system. I don’t feel nearly as good about him playing on a team like the Knicks and having the opponent go big. This team cannot out run or outgun a bigger team like GS can.

    You think there’s any chance the Clips pick up JR in the offseason? I would give anything to see Lance and JR on the same team, JR could untie LeBron’s shoelaces while Lance blows in his ear.

    I wouldn’t want to trade down below pick #7. There are basically three tiers of players in the lottery:

    Top tier: Towns, Okafor, Russell
    Second tier: Mudiay, Winslow, WCS, Zinger
    Third tier: Stanley Johnson, Hezonja, Lyles, Kaminsky

    I’m not all that psyched about the third tier, even though I do like Stanley Johnson.

    @ dmar
    Ha! That would be a sight to see. Honestly..I would have much rather had Born Ready than JR on this past season’s squad.

    Winslow has more than enough speed to play the 2 or 3 in the NBA. Speed is actually one of his best assets– he has plus to elite foot speed for an NBA wing. The real question about Winslow is his shot– will he be consistent enough with his shot to be a good two-way player?

    winslow is 6′ 4.5″ without shoes… over 6’6″ in shoes.. his size shouldn’t be a concern… a guy who produced as much as he has as a 19yo should make that irrelevant..

    I agree that finding a special perimeter player should be our focus, so clearly Russell would be option 1.
    But I would be ok with Mudiay as well, and it does seem like WCS is a unique and special player. I don’t think Winslow’s game translates very well. He seems like a Wilson Chandler type to me.
    It would be interesting if we could somehow end up with both Frank and WCS when all is said and done. Shiny new front court!

    Jae Crowder is about the same size (about 10 lbs heavier but same height) as Winslow and has played credibly at the 4 — B-R says he’s actually played 26% of his NBA minutes at the 4.

    With the way the league is going, I think it’s likely that Winslow will play mostly SF and some PF in his career. He’ll be fine.

    Maybe Phil should bring him in for a 2nd workout focusing solely on catch and shoots from distance and lateral quickness. He aces that and we’re looking at our new starting SG

    Jimmy Butler vs K Leonard vs J Winslow via Draft Express
    6′ 7.5″ vs 7′ 3″ vs 6′ 10.25″
    Standing Reach
    8′ 5.5″ vs 8′ 10″ vs 8′ 8.5″

    Just cause this is fun, is there in immediate impact player in this draft? I think Okafor is. Same as Russell. Everybody else will probably take the normal time to develop and adjust to the NBA. My point is, since there’s no real difference outside of the top 3 and we have no real talent, for the life of me I can’t understand why nobody would want to trade the pick.

    Look, if we draft a good player this year, and can draft a good player next year, provided we’re smart during free agency both this and next offseason, we can have a team with a foundation of good young players that can be supplemented by the fa’s. Being beholden to this pick means that it needs to be a home run because there is no do over next year. No pick. Let’s get assets. Bullets for the gun. We’ve got nada. We can mold young players into our system. Plus, they’re cheap and can become trade bait if need be. I realize that my opinion ain’t the popular one, but ain’t y’all tired not having anything in the cupboard?

    Size does matter. See Michael Beasley or Derrick Williams- guys who everyone thought would have no problem moving from 4/5 to 3/4 (and both of whom had more polished offensive games than Winslow.) NBA benches are littered with tweeners. While I could see Winslow turn out to be Ron Artest without the crazy (I think he’s closer to Artest than Stephenson in body type) which would be great, I could also see him turning out to be a more athletic Jae Crowder which wouldn’t. How is Winslow going to get into the lane once he’s going against guys his own size? He’s less of a risk than Zinger but to me he’s more of a risk than Mudiay or WCS. If you can get him in a trade down along with another asset, fine, but I think he’s a reach at four.

    From reading notes and news from this blog, it serms like Phil is seeing every top prospect in person. I have reasonable faith in his ability to judge talent, but I am not sure of his ability to judge market value. So I kind of hope he just picks someone good. But it is tempting to trade down with Denver if we can upgrade at point guard and still get someone good.

    Size does matter. See Michael Beasley or Derrick Williams- guys who everyone thought would have no problem moving from 4/5 to 3/4 (and both of whom had more polished offensive games than Winslow.)

    Yes but we are talking about a 2/3 tweener here, which is rampant in the nba. If you look at the measurables i posted before, he is “longer” than Jimmy Butler and only slightly less long in the standing reach than the DRED described freak Kawhi.

    he has enough ballhandling skills to play the 2… he has second highest assist rate among sf’s in this year’s draft class… a/to over 1… very high steals/block rates.. he shot 41% from 3… he’s 19… he boards well enough to play the 3 if he’s put there also…

    beasley and derrick williams had low defensive numbers(stls/blks) and horrible ast/to… this is not even a comparison…

    Huge difference between Winslow and Williams/Beasley. Winslow’s calling card has always been elite defense, per draftexpress, Williams/Beasley were score first options. He doesn’t need to hit the 3 or drive to have value. Perhaps to justify the pick he’ll need to have some offense, but that’s all icing on the cake.

    Would you trade Calderon and the 4 to Sac for Collison and the 6?

    I can’t get the trade machine to work, but would you swap picks w/ denver for a deal involving Lawson? I don’t think they give up Farried unless you take Hickson back

    To me it’s any of the top 3, Mudiay, or a trade down to #7 or slightly lower (if the terms are enticing, ofc). Enough teams are gonna buy into the Porzingis hype that if he’s available I imagine we’ll have gms calling phil up. If we only go down a few spots I’m not too worried as one of winslow wcs turner (who I think is very underrated) , maybe even mudiay will be available at 7 or even lower. If Porzingis is gone that means we get one of Okafor/Russell/Towns which is far and away the best case scenario.

    I’d do the Collison and 6th trade. I think that gets us close to 2 max contracts this offseason. Plus Collison is a solid pg and scorer. Someone else probably knows better though. I’d reconsider if Okafor, Russel, or Towns drops.

    Daily Humor Piece

    Marc Berman: Willie Cauley-Stein pitch for Knicks: Like a 7-foot John Wall


    The size thing is way overblown with J Winslow especially from a defense standpoint, he is very similar in size to Iggy, who i think might be the mvp of the finals for his game 4 performance.

    Talking size is stupid, talking athleticism is stupid, it’s all stupid. Effort, passing, shooting, and defense (lat quickness especially) > athleticism, height, jump

    While I’m not abandoning Zinger, I’m hoping that we’ll be able to acquire WCS, preferably in some type of trade down where we dump Calderon. Note Phil should know by draft day whether anybody would take a package of Calderon/THJ/Early. If not, dumping Calderon should be the priority unless a team like Boston is part of the deal where we receive a #16 pick. There are just too many quality free agents available this summer to have that money tied up in Calderon.

    I’m reading that WCS is showing a really solid mid-range shot in workouts. I also read he’s got a jump hook but never uses it. IF he’s got the drive to really work on those areas, he could be a much better player than Chandler who I always believed was lazy. The reason I prefer WCS over Kaminsky is that he will be able to stay on the floor against both small ball and big lineups. That kind of flexibility is critical in today’s NBA. If opponents go small ball, that jump hook becomes very important!

    I strongly prefer WCS over Russell and Mudiay so I’m hoping Russell will not be available. Or if Okafor or Russell drops to 4, I could envision the incredible scenario where we obtain WCS, #16 pick, and dump Calderon. Zinger rocketing up could really help us.

    Disagree about using #4 pick to dump Calderon. He’s gone in 2 years, and a drafted all-star caliber player could potentially be >10 years.

    Pick the best player, or trade to draft more great players (assuming we wouldn’t drop more than #7). Dumping TH2, Calderon, etc., isn’t enough long-term value to make up for giving up on a potential all-star. Planning beyond the next 2-3 years has always been a Knicksian weakness.

    Disagree about using #4 pick to dump Calderon. He’s gone in 2 years, and a drafted all-star caliber player could potentially be >10 years.

    prob agree with this. we could stretch waive him and pick up a net 4-5MM salary cap putting us into near-2-max territory without giving up any assets.

    Disagree about using #4 pick to dump Calderon. He’s gone in 2 years, and a drafted all-star caliber player could potentially be >10 years.

    Who the eff suggested this?

    1) I’d say Collison is definitely an asset worthy of a trade. I’m also not convinced that we won’t have an all-star caliber player drop to 6 anyway.

    2)Giving up 4-5MM in salary cap space for an extra year or 2 on the Calderon contract is an asset we’d be giving up.

    3) We’d have a lineup of Collison – Melo – Monroe – 6th pick – Max player. We’d also have the opportunity to sign another max player the following year when the cap starts jumping.

    The “best player” is in the eye of the beholder. I rate WCS higher than Russell. I like Okafor but I like Monroe better. Therefore, knowing other teams might covet Russell or Okafor, all kinds of opportunities open up. Regarding potential Calderon waive-and-stretch, it appears that extra 3m could be very important. Given Matthews injury, I’m guessing Danny Green will command 11-13m. I’m also guessing Joseph or Beverley would be about 8m. So Monroe (16m) plus Green (12m) and Joseph (8m) = 36m which would be about our available cap (might have to dump Timmy). Wait for Conley?

    I’m totally OK with WCS at #4. He’s clearly a defensive stud, and we don’t always value that ability appropriately.

    I’d also be OK at #4 with any of the “big 3” (but not totally sold on D’Angelo) and I suppose with, Zinger Mudiay or Stanley Johnson, in that order. I’m not excited at all about Winslow or Hezonja.

    @TommyBeer: Woj also stated that the Knicks, including Phil, had “7 or 8 guys” in Vegas to watch the Porzingis workout…

    Yes and Phil’s top scout, Clarence Gaines, has personally been to Europe to scout Zinger. Phil fired a 30year? Knick veteran and hired Gaines so he must place a lot of stock in his opinion and my understanding is Gaines really likes Zinger. And Zinger’s workout apparently was comparable to the legendary Darko workout which led the Pistons to select him at #2. Still, I don’t think Phil will draft him because he’s a bit of a project who doesn’t fit his timeline. Of course, some might argue that he doesn’t need to bulk up to be reasonably effective in the short-term so who knows.

    So Monroe (16m) plus Green (12m) and Joseph (8m) = 36m

    That’s more than their available cap room. I just re-posted the state of the Knicks’ cap, as it likely plays a role in how they look at the draft this year and trading down.

    I’m kinda getting the feeling that Russell or Okafor is going to fall to us because there is just too much Porzingis sizzle right now. Philly is going to take him. Even the 76er blogs are expecting it:

    It’d also be nice if Zinger turned out to be the real deal that it wasn’t a case of the Knicks passing him over or trading down so that another team could pick him.

    That said, I don’t buy the hype just yet. I’d love to buy the hype, though. I really, really would. Russell or Okafor would be very, very nice.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I’m almost getting obsessed by this draft. I can’t wait until it gets here so I can be obsessed by summer league instead.

    Maybe it’s just me, but I’m almost getting obsessed by this draft. I can’t wait until it gets here so I can be obsessed by summer league instead.

    Yeah the last time I felt like this was the Steph Curry draft. When Minny took Jonny Flynn I was SO SURE that we were going to get Curry. Damn Don Nelson.

    Yeah, had Curry just gone where he was supposed to go (The T-Wolves at #6), the Knicks would at least likely not have gotten stuck with Hill (the Warriors would have taken him) and the draft would not have been quite so painful. I loved out live chat that night. We were all on point then – everyone wanted to trade down for Lawson.

    @ Brian Cronin

    I think you put Anthony in the 6 players the Knicks have next year when you meant Cleanthony. Already has Melo listed there.

    So Monroe (16m) plus Green (12m) and Joseph (8m) = 36m

    That’s more than their available cap room.

    Brian – here are my calculations:

    Melo (22.875m) + #4 Draft Pick (3.44m) + Early (845K) + Galloway (845K) + 8 cap holds@525k each(4.2m) = 32.205m

    66.5m minus 32.2m = 34.3m. Monroe’s max is 15.8m not 16m. And once Knicks sign Monroe, that frees up 500K cap hold… and once we sign Green that frees up another 500K so it would be close. Of course, if all offers are made at the same time, then we’re off about 1.5m.

    Melo (22.875m) + #4 Draft Pick (3.44m) + Early (845K) + Galloway (845K) + 8 cap holds@525k each(4.2m) = 32.205m

    THJR? And even with stretch provision we’d have to count some of Calderon’s money against the cap.

    THJR? And even with stretch provision we’d have to count some of Calderon’s money against the cap.

    Yeah I’m presuming we dump THJ. The gist is that if we’re able to trade Calderon we have some play for those guys (Joseph or Beverley and Green or Carroll). If we waive-and-stretch his contract, we probably won’t have enough.

    Man Zinger is working out in LA now. There’s a real chance that we could have Okafor fall in our laps. I’m not sure I like that.

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