2015-16 Game Thread: Knicks @ Rockets

To paraphrase Stephen Sondheim and Jule Styne, everything’s coming Knicks right now. A day after playing the Thunder sans Kevin Durant, the Knicks get to take on the Rockets without Dwight Howard (the Rockets are resting him on the second night of back-to-backs, which is not a terrible idea, I guess, but seems awfully conservative). I remember looking at this stretch of games before the season and being like, “Damn, that is a tough stretch of games.” Now it actually looks like it will be the Knicks’ favor, as the Rockets have been playing very poorly this season, led primarily by the dramatically diminished overall play of their star player, James Harden, who seems to have just stopped giving a shit. It’s quite astonishing to see such poor character from a star player.

Anyhow, back to Dwight Howard – the Rockets have lost three of the four games they’ve played without him, so that’s obviously good news. The Rockets seem to be in a similar situation to the Thunder. If their star guard has an unreal game, they can win. If not, they’re probably going to lose. Who knew that Josh Smith, of all people, would be missed this much?

On the Knicks’ side of things, they’ve been buoyed by the improved play of late of Jose Calderon, but mostly they are being helped by Melo doing his Melo thing and different players stepping up in different games. I’ve said all season, but it still seems to hold true – if Lance Thomas has a good game, the Knicks are probably going to win. Because that extra production comes out of essentially nowhere and it buoys the overall team dramatically.

Hopefully we get to see more Zinger tonight. Not that they need him to be awesome to win, but come on, it’s just always fun to see him have great games. He’s so fun to watch.

Three in a row – let’s hope they make it four!

Let’s go Knicks!!

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316 thoughts to “2015-16 Game Thread: Knicks @ Rockets”

  1. Remember, our opponent is very clever:

    All I want tonight is to see Capela stuff Porzingers on a dunk.
    That’s it.

    rabble, rabble.

    by IThinkItsIndecision on Nov 21, 2015 | 3:28 PM reply

    i can’t believe we have a worse record than the knicsk
    the knics!!!

    by Daniel C on Nov 21, 2015 | 4:07 PM reply

  2. All I really want is to see the Knicks be competitive in a venue where they have been pretty shitty the last few years.

  3. The Rockets have the highest 3PT attempt rate in the league, and the lowest 3PT percentage. The Knicks are #1 in the league in defensive 3PT shooting percentage. This should be interesting.

  4. really bad defensive run for melo, leaving his guy wide open undereath, not getting back in transition, missing two sloppy passes thrown his way…

  5. Last time Knicks won in Houston Jamal Crawford hit a game-winning 3pter at the buzzer.

    Streaks like that are just kind of crapshooty, though. The Knicks have lost some weird games here. Like the infamous JR three-pointer game.

  6. OKC made a poor choice in not keeping Harden, but there have always been warning signs about effort on d and conditioning.

  7. Sadly, I don’t think the chemistry problems Ty Lawson has are with his teammates.

    And again with the Seraphin shit

  8. I guess a lineup with Derrick Williams, Lance Thomas, and Seraphin got pulled out of Fish’s hat today

  9. i get that KOQ is a somewhat stranger player than i realized going in. he takes some bad risks on offense and stat hogs a bit on easy team rebounds; but it is really awful to be playing kevin seraphin over him like this.

  10. The Seraphin experiment won’t end until the state of emergency in France does.

    Enjoy the next three months

  11. Clint Capela reminds me so much of a young Shawn Kemp. I am old enough to have seen a young Shawn Kemp win over MSG with some ridiculous dunks.

  12. i do get the kemp comparison, but kemp was a much smoother and more acrobatic athlete at a very young age. capela has the quick up and the power, though. kemp finished with the same FT% as ewing. Capela is not that guy.

  13. Watch Capela fill the lane on the break before you say he does not have the athleticism. He is a 7′ with speed and a 32″ vertical.

  14. i agree on the “raw” athleticism in terms of speed and power. but kemp was also an acrobat. it was a combination of coordination and athleticism that capela doesn’t quite have. he would catch a bounce pass on the run behind him and at at his ankles and then obliterate the rim.

  15. That was a pretty athletic catch and dunk by Capela. Good hands high. Stone hands below his waist. Like Tyson Chandler, but with a decade to develop.

  16. Capela is no Kemp. But pretty insane value for a 25th pick. He’ll probably make a couple of All Star squads….

  17. Basketball reference
    Clint Capela
    Clint Capela ? Twitter: @CapelaClint

    Position: Center ? Shoots: Right
    Height: 6-10 ? Weight: 240 lbs.

    Born: May 18, 1994 (Age 21.187) in Geneva, Switzerland
    Draft: Houston Rockets, 1st round (25th pick, 25th overall), 2014 NBA Draft
    NBA Debut: November 6, 2014
    Experience: 1 year
    D-League: 38 G, 16.0 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 0.8 APG (Full Record)
    Other Pages: Europe Stats

  18. We’re almost starting to take Zinger for granted. He’s killing it in the 1st half and barely a comment

  19. Great second quarter. 58 points for the half with Melo scoring 4 is very promising. Agree with the Capela call. He looks to be legit. Great endorsement for the D-League with Capela and Gallo.

  20. C’mon, guys, I love Langston, but stop worrying about his minutes. Our guards’ minutes in the first half:

    Calderon 14
    Afflalo 17
    Galloway 10
    Grant 8

    It’s not like he barely played, and Calderon and Afflalo played pretty well while they were in. He’ll get plenty of burn in the 4th quarter.

  21. Zinger is looking really good, especially for a rookie. Promising first half in a place the Knicks usually suck in. Leading with Melo only scoring 4 is surprising and encouraging.

  22. Overall first half thoughts:

    Good effort on defense, but offensive rebounds are a killer. I suspect that this is because our bigs are so committed to helping on drives and contesting, which has been good. But no one is “helping the helper” by boxing out the opposing bigs.

    KP feeling it offensively. Second unit actually has an offense with ball movement. The starting unit offense seems stagnant, waiting for someone to initiate the action, or holding the ball until Melo establishes post position. Need to figure out a more sustainable strategy. Offensive rebounding been good. Lopez very active

  23. Some pretty mediocre defense that first half from both sides, but luckily the Knicks are doing better on offense than the Rockets. What a half for Zinger!

  24. Another way to look at it is the Knicks played six guys more minutes than they gave their best player

  25. What is amazing about KP is how he scores. All over, all kinds of shots.
    But I’d like to see more interest in the boards. 3 in a half, and I think he had six last night.

  26. Every scouting report on Lopez should say “wait for him to make his spin move and strip him of the ball”

  27. Really loving Calderon’s confidence on offence in this stretch. Even if Gallo and Grant eventually overtake him, he is a handy vet.

  28. They’re giving KP the ball to high. Needs to be lower on the block

    I’ve been saying this for over a week.

  29. right KP has had a ton of trouble getting deep position, which is not surprising at this juncture.

  30. Also, love KP’s handle, but he shouldn’t put it on the ground when he’s got Ariza on his hip, or Harden.

  31. he keeps getting pushed out. His base is weak as shit lol

    They don’t find him even when he’s anchored down low.

  32. Yeah, KP gets pushed a lot, but they also aren’t letting him set down low.
    This used to be a problem with Melo. They’d feed him and Stat too high.

  33. Love Fisher there telling the young pgs that they needed to run the shot clock down for the last shot of the quarter

  34. amundson is at least a better fit than seraphin. the backups were getting pushed around like crazy in the first half.

  35. I guess fisher watched Lopez in the last seven minutes last night and decided to nail his ass to the bench in the 4th

  36. The dude was surrounded and still got the offensive rebound like a middleschooler playing with first graders. Can you tell I like Porzingis.

  37. Smart coaching by fisher with Lance in there. He’s a better defender and Melo has five.
    Regardless of outcome, I love this team. An off night from Melo and they are right there

  38. Thank goodness for Houston’s willingness to take stupid shots. But boy, Zinger has had one hell of a game. Houston had no answer for him. Amazing performance.

  39. Once KP6 got the Rocket big guy fouled out, Fisher could go small with KP6 at C and Melo at the 4. Nice coaching.

  40. Afflalo is a more competent defender than we had been led to believe. He has done well on Harden these last few possessions. Then again Calderon just drew a charge on Harden, so perhaps I know nothing.

  41. The missed foul shots have to stop. For everyone. I’m a scrub! And I shoot 90% from the line. I have not one shred of evidence of that … But I know I can… It’s scientifically as easy as hitting a layup. Again I have not one shred of evidence for that either

  42. Trying to stay level headed, but I can’t help but think if this motherfucker stays healthy he’s going to have an MVP

  43. I thought that Porzingis skyhook was the most beautiful thing I’d seen in a Knicks game in forever, but it may have been trumped by Calderon drawing an offensive foul call off of James effing Harden.

    (Amazing how much better Calderon looks now that he’s not playing alongside the animated corpse of Sasha.)

    As others have said, what a team. This is fun!

  44. Great win. KP huge. Seriously there is not enough karma in the world for Houston after making the dumb call to fire McHale.

  45. The missed foul shots have to stop. For everyone. I’m a scrub! And I shoot 90% from the line. I have not one shred of evidence of that … But I know I can… It’s scientifically as easy as hitting a layup. Again I have not one shred of evidence for that either

    Hell, Jones made lay-ups look hard tonight!

  46. Great fucking win!! Have to give Fisher a ton of credit for his lineups and substitutions in the final few minutes of the game. KP only the 2nd Knick in history with 24/14/7 in a game (Ewing of course the other).

  47. Does O’Quinn have a bad personality or something? Is he slacking at practice? I’d love to know why Fisher is so down on him. There must be something, right?

  48. The rockets were without Howard and the Knicks were without Melo (for most of the game).

    Actually this is a great win because they showed that on a terrible foul night for Melo they could still muster enough O to win.

  49. What a nice win!

    KP is so even-keeled, and tough. It’s been 30 years since I’ve been so excited to watch a Knick player.

    And is Afflalo really this good? Solid in every phase of the game.

  50. I asked about OQ in the earlier thread. Really, Seraphin looked like garbage again tonight, so maybe OQ starts getting some time again with the 2nd unit.

    Still, can’t complain too much when the team is winning.

  51. If Kristopper really has already learned to rebound this well and play shut down D while not fouling, I don’t know what to say. I don’t want to give voice to the crazy things going through my head. It’s too good to be true.

  52. Really odd about O’Quin. I guess he had a few down games, but Lou and Seraphin haven’t played well enough to totally displace him. I don’t think he would cause chemistry issues, but still seems odd.

  53. This is good for the Knicks on many levels. The faster KP can become more consistent. The faster the defense will have to make a choice of who to double. KP6 or Me70 pick your poison

  54. So, what’s better, Porzingsanity or Linsanity?

    I love this, but I don’t know if anything will match the height of Linsanity, which for me was his game winning three in Toronto (I think it was) over Calderon. My head nearly hit the ceiling.

  55. Watching heat sixers. Okafor disgusted … Just zero leadership. Sixer fans should pack their arena next game and simply not leave. Make a statement.

  56. So, what’s better, Porzingsanity or Linsanity?

    Porzingis has the potential to make every stretch feel like Linsanity

  57. Scorezingis with 24 points, boardzingis with 14 rebs, and Kristops with 7 blocks leading the knicks to victory. Total team effort got the job done

  58. i just can’t believe we are sitting here with a fun team and a mouth watering rookie. it was just yesterday that this was the most dismally positioned franchise in the universe whose fate largely revolved around the VO2Max of cole aldrich.

  59. The L insanity streak felt thin.
    I loved it like cold water in a desert.
    But this is far less a mirage. KP is playing within himself.

  60. i just can’t believe we are sitting here with a fun team and a mouth watering rookie. it was just yesterday that this was the most dismally positioned franchise in the universe whose fate largely revolved around the VO2Max of cole aldrich.

    It really goes to show how crazy their plans were post-Ewing. Short term losing gets you good young rookies. But “New York won’t accept a rebuilding team.” Ugh, Zeke, you were the worst.

  61. I’m younger than most here, have never been this optimistic about a Knicks team before. 2012-2013 was awesome but we all knew it wasn’t exactly a long term plan. I’m sure I’ll have my heartbroken because Knicks still gonna Knick, but I’m all in on Porzingis.

  62. Calderon is playing so much better, though it still doesn’t make sense why he’s in there late when the team is ahead. Despite the charge he drew on Harden, he just can’t keep up with these guards defensively over the long haul.

  63. Capela is likely to be a great player, if he keeps his head on straight. I would rather have Capela than Dwight Howard (taking contracts into consideration) over the next four years.

    I would much rather have Porzingis than Capela.

    This is a good time to be a Knicks fan.

  64. Someone wanted negatives?

    Melo and KP6 combined for 6 turnovers. Lopez missed a foul shot. That’s all I got.
    :-)

  65. Linsanity was more fun, imho. But this is obviously much more exciting if you’re thinking long term.

  66. All of the role players are what makes this team. Everyone just goes out and does their job.

    Aflalo has been a great pro who hits shots and plays D

    Jose is a pg who can hit 3s and make plays

    Gallo is the goat.

    Right on down the line. Love this team.

  67. Phil is in LA not caring about the Knicks because he’s old and washed up and the game passed him by.

  68. @209. I agree. But I remember how exciting Linsanity was, esp. with the timing of it, and how it flamed out with injury. Hopefully Porzingsanity does not flame out. I’m just crossing my fingers that he doesn’t get seriously hurt.

  69. Linsanity was so unique, it can’t really be compared to Porzingis or anything else. That season had high expectations and quickly turned into a huge disappointment, followed by Melo getting hurt. Then this guy comes in off the end of the bench and starts killing it with these crazy drives to the hoop. The whole package — the moves, Harvard, the fact that he came off the scrap heap, the season savior aspect, his ethnicity grabbing the attention of the entire Asian world — it was all so crazy. The Garden was just ballistic every night.

    As an experience, I can’t see it ever being replicated.

  70. Re: O’Quinn, I’ve heard the Orlando front office thought he was lazy. Which doesn’t match what we’ve seen of him in games, but could manifest itself in practice. With so many bodies to play at the 4/5, loafing in practice could be what’s helps my Fish decide? Beats me.

  71. Re: O’Quinn, I’ve heard the Orlando front office thought he was lazy. Which doesn’t match what we’ve seen of him in games, but could manifest itself in practice. With so many bodies to play at the 4/5, loafing in practice could be what’s helps my Fish decide? Beats me.

    Yeah, it’s got to be something like that. Lou obviously always gives it his all. It’s surprising that O’Quinn isn’t more energetic than Seraphim, though.

  72. What a strange season, the 3 teams with the best road records after GS are the Knicks, Dallas and Minnesota, each at 5-2.

  73. What a strange season, the 3 teams with the best road records after GS are the Knicks, Dallas and Minnesota, each at 5-2.

    Such a strange season. I’d honestly rather see the Knicks play the Rockets, who went to the Western Conference Finals last year, right now than the freakin’ Pistons, ya know?

  74. Brian, it could also be that O’Quinn sometimes ours too much mustard on things, especially his passes. Seraphin is a flawed player but has been a bit less sloppy.

    But back to KP, if he can make that skyhook consistently, game over, man.

  75. I am still thinking about that Dream ShakeTM against Charlotte. I was at MSG, and could not wait to get home to see that move over and over.

  76. Kristaps Porzingis finished with 24 points,, 14 rebounds & 7 blocks. The last 20 year old to do that was Shaq, who did it twice in 1992-93.

  77. Karl Towns has been the best rookie in the league so far. Tonight Kristaps was fucking incredible. There are 70 odd games to go this season. And a lot of games after that before we can say Kris Diesel was the best in his class or not.

  78. Its clear The PorzinGod has studied and broke down the games of great big men past. He’s already used the Olajuwon Dream Shake and Jabbar Skyhook. I’ve also seen him attempt the Duncan corner bankshot. Word is that he also has used the Dirk fadeaway. What else can he learn? The McHale pumpfake? Sky’s the limit.

  79. Huge win. This team is pretty good right now. Melo doing a lot of the little things like sharing the ball, trying to play defense, and rebounding to help the team win.

  80. Did anyone see Lebron just walk off the court without being subbed out. He just left the floor and set down on the bench after Cunningham threw a bad entry pass? It cost his team a tecxh but they were blowiing ATL out anyway.

    I just never ever saw that before. His excuse after the game was funny though, “I blew a casket”

  81. If the Knicks continue to get the current contributions from everybody (with the possible O’Quinn rebirth), I think we can win the Atlantic Division. Calderon, Galloway, and Afflalo are all playing great basketball for us to go along with Porzingis and Melo. We still have a lot of basketball to play, but you can see what PJax did. Everyone on this team plays with intensity, intelligence, and cohesiveness. Lopez is rounding out into what he’s been for his career which is a good player in 25-30 minutes of basketball. Lance Thomas went from bum to baller over an off season, and his minutes have been valuable for us. We’re in it until we’re out of it, and a smart team that plays hard and together will always be a greater sum than its parts. I’m really proud of my Knicks as of today, and I’m gonna go all out and predict that we win 47 over my original 43 games. I didn’t think Porzingis or Galloway would be this good this early in their careers.

  82. I love kp, we all love latviathan, but I wanna take a second to acknowledge, I was wrong. Jose calderon still has game left. If he can merely drill open 3s, and get 7 assisis a night, hell be purchased best pg in a very very long time.

  83. Anyone see Noel’s behind the back move on the fast break? Him and latviathan could be a great rivalry

  84. Watched the game on DVR. It was one of the few times I was able to do it without accidentally hearing the result first. It was a really fun game to watch.

    The first thing to say is that the Knicks are catching breaks, but I’ll take them. This game it was Howard and Beverley not playing. Those are two big contributors. Add to that the turmoil of McHale getting fired and I came in optimistic. I know that teams sometimes are sparked by coach firings but Harden had his explosion against the Blazers on Wednesday and then Memphis took it to them Friday night. Any of that magic dust blew away.

    The team is playing really good defense and there is no doubt now that having Porzingis and Lopez guarding the paint and competing under the boards is a key to that. The pair has work to do on the defensive rebounding end because there are a lot of missed threes by Knock opponents these days so that means there’ll be more opportunities.

    I’m sure people are falling all over themselves about KP but I’ll give him a B+ for the game and what that tells you all is that I have reset expectations from him after watching him for a few weeks and seeing what he’s capable of. He can work on his handle. He can work on some of those inside moves. He can work on his rebounding. It’s nice to see those jumpers falling.

    Once again, Anthony wasn’t dominant when he was being covered by a great defender. Ariza, the Greek Freak and LeBron are really the only people to slow him down. He did not look great.

    Shhhhhh! Don’t let anyone know about Jerian Grant! Buried on the second team, this guy has got me giddy. Point guard is such a tough position to transition to. He’s just what I want at that position. He has to work on that outside shot but that draft day trade was the steal of the day. He has a chance to develop into something special.

    I had these past two games as “firm” losses when I predicted outcomes before the season began. It’s been a long time since the Knicks…

  85. Could Sabonis be the closest comp to Porzingis? They say that he was one of the best ever in his younger days.

  86. Once again, Anthony wasn’t dominant when he was being covered by a great defender. Ariza, the Greek Freak and LeBron are really the only people to slow him down. He did not look great.

    That’s the point is to be balanced. The rockets overloaded like hell against Melo. Others took advantage that’s the sign of a good team

  87. Ariza, the Greek Freak and LeBron are really the only people to slow him down.

    And Kawhi. But, yes, it’s a good thing that the team is starting to demonstrate the ability to win even when Melo doesn’t have a big scoring night. Saw a stat on Twitter saying we were 0-10 in our last 10 games before this season where Melo scored less than 15 points, and we are 2-0 so far this season when that’s happened.

  88. @245 & 246 – Your points are valid. The Knicks have won these games because the rest of the team can play ball. He no longer has to carry the team.

  89. Remember, our opponent is very clever:

    All I want tonight is to see Capela stuff Porzingers on a dunk.
    That’s it.

    rabble, rabble.

    by IThinkItsIndecision on Nov 21, 2015 | 3:28 PM reply

    i can’t believe we have a worse record than the knicsk
    the knics!!!

    by Daniel C on Nov 21, 2015 | 4:07 PM reply

    I bet Rockets fans blew a casket last night.

  90. My brother said this team is like when Kareem joined Oscar in Milwaukee. That would be nice but a super gaudy comparison lol

  91. @244 this isn’t hyperbole, latviathan is a totally unique blend of size, aggression,agility and basketball i.q. I knew he’d be at least league average when I saw the Philly summer league game. Okafor was bullying him in the first half, so without any coaching, he starts fronting him to use his length and deny him the ball. How many 19 year olds make adjustments in game on their own?

    IF you must compare him, I’d say he’s kg with better range

  92. Kobe: umm ms buss can we talk?

    Jeanne buss: sure mamba what’s on your mind?

    Kobe: well we had the number 2 pick, and kp was on the board right?

    Buss: our scouts said he was 3 years away and we wanted to give you immefiately help in your last season, so we took dangelo, espn said he has the highest chance of being a superstar of anyone in the draft.

    Kobe: but, porzingis! (Sobs into his hands)

  93. If Porzingis becomes a savvy passer (which he’s shown flashes of but nothing much), my god, he’ll be great. Sabonis would be the comp if that were the case, but it’s unlikely given that Sabonis is among the best passing big men of all time, and maybe even the best.

    Definitely wouldn’t mind Porzingis approaching the heights of a young Sabonis (the guy came into the league at like 31 with destroyed knees and posted several .200+ WS/48 seasons! the man was ABSURD)

  94. Saw a stat on Twitter saying we were 0-10 in our last 10 games before this season where Melo scored less than 15 points, and we are 2-0 so far this season when that’s happened.

    We were probably 0-10 in a lot of situations last year.

    People keep throwing around KP comparisons to some of the all time greats. Yeah Porzingis has shown a lot of good, but he still has a lot of work to do to prove that he’s in that class. Even if he has an amazing year as a rookie it would probably still be a smart bet against KP to reach that level since so very few make it there.

  95. @253 what about kristaps game says fluke to you? How many rookies come into the league and the ares that were supposedly their weaknesses, (rebounfing,inside csoring) are strengths?

  96. What’s great about Porzingis is that he’s doing all of this while still showing some very clear room for improvement. There were several plays last night where he put the ball on the floor and either turned it over or wasted the shot clock while nearly turning it over. Despite his height, he’s still prone to having his shot blocked, or simply having the ball stripped, because he needs to bulk up more. He’s become less hesitant about taking open shots, but still passes out of that situation more than he should. Most of those things are pretty easy to clean up, or at least learn to stop doing, which means he still has a very reasonable chance of enormous improvement.

  97. Like anyone, KP6’s potential greatness might be limited by whatever his desire/work ethic are. By all accounts, he’s loaded with that. The big unknowns are injury, of course, and how much more strength he can add without possibly losing agility and shooting touch. He’ll definitely fill out in the next 2-3 years. Imagine him at 260 (I’ve read that he’s at 236 now) with range out to 25 feet?!

    I was in awe of his game last night. So smooth and poised for his age. He rarely smiles, just seems intense every moment he’s out there.

    We probably need to stop comparing him to other players. He’s the first Kristaps Porzingis.
    :-)

  98. We probably need to stop comparing him to other players. He’s the first Kristaps Porzingis.

    Amen

  99. By definition there’s only a few all-time greats or even once a generation players, these are the players we are already comparing KP to.

    Certainly KP has done a lot to warrant speculation, but even if he does have a great year for a rookie that doesn’t necessitate that next leap. Certainly he seems to have a good work ethic, but that doesn’t always translate to the court. Certainly KP shows lots of further potential and room for improvement, but that’s just another way of saying that he may not capitalize on that talent. Perhaps some of those issues are deeper than we want to accept.

    Even if I like KP’s chances more than any other rookie, we’re talking about preferring his 10 or 20% chance of reaching that level versus other players’ 5% or 1% chance of becoming an all-time great. Sure we can like his chances more than other players, and I do, but that doesn’t mean it’s a great chance. Mind the prior people.

  100. OH MY GOD

    8-6

    I realized, as I’m watching with my son, who’s, at 9, only now really getting to be sentient about the sport, thankfully, that we watched the whole 2nd Q without even mentioning Melo.

    This is a deep team with lots of good players. Yes no KD and no D12 but a good team is supposed to take care of business in those situations.

    I agree with Kareem comparisons. Not necessarily that Staps will be that but he has similar movement and curve breaking attributes. Plus MORE range. Not that KAJ needed it but still.

    Back to back wins against OKC and HOU? Holy fucking shit dudes.

  101. @eb so you’re like the self loathing, the knicks can’t catch a break kinda guy here huh? The number 4icky in the nba draft yields a 60 percent chance of turning into a star and if you redrafted, you could argue kp would go 1, no knock on towns he’s amazing but his skills are less versatile.http://www.82games.com/nbadraftpicks.htm

  102. The real question is whether Porzingis and Galloway are any good, or if they’re merely capitalizing on the Kobe Assists that Carmelo racks up when he’s on — and off — the court. I wouldn’t be comfortable giving either of them extensions until I know that they’re as for-real as Carmelo is.

  103. @ KP6 that’s not at all the intent of my post, I have no idea where you got that notion. I say in the post that I like Kristaps a lot. However, the players that he’s being compared to aren’t the everyday notion of star, but Dirk, KG, Kareem?!?! and Sabonis. That’s a little more than your average 4th pick. Even the article you link to says that Dirk has a rating of 34, twelve points higher than the average 4th pick. I won’t even go into depth about the issues with a rating that adds pts/g, assts/g and reb/g, but efficiency needs to be accounted for.

    The point of my post is that very few players reach the level of the names that have been thrown out there. That’s not a knock on Kristaps. It’s trying to reign in the delusions of grandeur just a bit. It wasn’t too long ago that people were calling Landry Fields the next Shane Battier and that Shumpert’s floor was Tony Allen.

  104. The real question is whether Porzingis and Galloway are any good, or if they’re merely capitalizing on the Kobe Assists that Carmelo racks up when he’s on — and off — the court. I wouldn’t be comfortable giving either of them extensions until I know that they’re as for-real as Carmelo is.

    By that measure, KP is pretty for real. Lots of Kobe assists being created right now.

  105. I’m with EB for now. It’s a bit early to be comparing Porzingis to all-time greats.
    However, are not ruling that level yet. Maybe, in a decade, we’ll be comparing some other kid to him.

  106. @264

    it’s a free country we can compare Porzingis to Austin Rivers if we want to you can’t tell me what to do

  107. @265 and that’s why your credibility ranks somewhere between trump talking about minorities drunk and Michael olowakandi, just Michael olowakandi

  108. porzingis is making a run at karl towns as the best player in this draft….. right now avg’ 18/12/2 blocks per 36… and the list of players age 20 and younger achieving that for a full season is fairly short… it’s shaq, dawkins, bynum, drummond, lasalle thompson and kendrick perkins..

  109. porzingis is making a run at karl towns as the best player in this draft….. right now avg’ 18/12/2 blocks per 36… and the list of players age 20 and younger achieving that for a full season is fairly short… it’s shaq, dawkins, bynum, drummond, lasalle thompson and kendrick perkins.

    Most of those names are wrong. The only player to do that for a full season at 20 or younger is Shaq. Perkins did it for 35 minutes at age 19 which is about the same as me doing it on NBA Jam. Towns is also on pace, though.

  110. Have the clippers officially quit on doc Rivers?

    I know I have. When does he sign Gilbert Arenas to sure up that veterancest bench?

  111. The reason kps being compared to all time greats is because about 25 a week lately he’s been doing or exceeding things on the court that all time greats did. I’ll end on this question. Injuries aside, I latviathan develops the ambidextrous hook thing (sooo many 7 footers can do it with one hand right?) Who stops him from scoring in the nba and how?

  112. Staps is already really good at the Roy Hibbert “go vertical” style of defense. The Knicks’ defensive rating is drastically better with him on the floor. He seems to already be a serious impact defender.

  113. This KP debate going on here just confirms that it’s been a long time since we’ve seen a genuinely excellent, potentially dominant player develop as a Knick. Who knows if he stays healthy, develops right, keep his head in it — he has a chance to be special. Clyde was marveling at his patience last night, called him an “old soul.” Historically great players are calling out what they see in KP, and us fan ought to respect it. Now we just have to wait and see.

  114. I’m not sure there is a debate. Unless you count the proposition that he should confidently be declared a future hall of famer after 14 games a basis for debate. Not a very interesting proposition IMO. More of a measure of how wonderfully crazy we’re all going trying to guess how good he’ll be. To me he seems likely to land somewhere in the huge ill-defined space between “special” and “future cornerstone of the franchise”, with too little data yet to confidently guess where.

  115. President Barack Obama, a big basketball fan, told GQ that he “absolutely” would want to own an NBA team. The president said, “I have fantasized about being able to put together a team and how much fun that would be. I think it’d be terrific.”

    Man how awesome would this be regardless of how people feel about him politically? A former president playing GM/owner.

  116. Would it be possible for Obama to seize the Knicks using eminent domain laws and declare himself owner?

    If he could also have Dolan deported on treason charges I’d really appreciate it.

  117. The problem is Obama still believes that Rose is a star player. So I think I’ll pass on him as an owner/GM.

  118. Based on 34 years of watching the nba I realistically expect kristaps at his peak, to average 22 ppg 11 reb 0.6 assists 1.2 steals 1.5 blks and ts 54prrcent

  119. @265 THCJ – Absolutely. You can compare him to Winny the Pooh too.

    @272 Kp6forr.o.y. – Nothing will stop him. The sky’s the limit but he has to achieve it consistently and stay healthy.

    I’m rooting for the Nyets tonight vs. Boston. First, I always root against Boston but also, that vaults the Knicks into the 8-seed.

    By the way, new season objective: Winning the Atlantic. It’s not KP that drives this statement. I think there’s a lot of depth on the team and I see a lot of improvement in the pieces that were carried over from last season. Galloway, Thomas, Amundson and Calderon are performing better than last season. I still think Galloway is a defensive liability but he’s playing better than in the-season-to-forget.

  120. Ooops. Galloway’s not a liability – Calderon is!

    I actually thought Calderon did a pretty decent job guarding Westbrook Friday night. Jose has stepped up his game big time ever since Affalo came back and Sasha returned to his rightful spot on the bench, where I hope he remains glued.

  121. Worst possible opening for a post on this blog:
    “Based on 34 years of watching the nba…”

    EYE TEST ALERT!!

  122. Not trying to say “I told you so,” but I wanted the Knicks to draft/sign Will Barton.

    I mean, yeah: I told you so.

  123. Not trying to say “I told you so,” but I wanted the Knicks to draft/sign Will Barton.

    I mean, yeah: I told you so.

    ???CAREER WS48=.051???
    ???CAREER 3PT%=.265???
    ??????????????

  124. He’s kidding.

    He also admitted he would have picked Cauley-Stein and said he would have been wrong.

    You can’t beat Jowles. His defense is impregnable. The secret is the brevity and..

    There is something that him, Kurylo, and all the stats guys have known that the rest of us have been slow to discover (as have many gms and owners) and that is that fame and sweet offensive moves are good for the ladies but not necessarily for the bottom line of wins in the NBA. I mean, I was pretty surprised to see JET in the starting lineup for HOU, even with Beverly out. That’s very 2011. There was probably someone on the bench that someone like me never heard of that could have had a better +/-.

    The best NBA players are the ones who fought themselves up draft boards and onto rosters. PHI had to pick Okafor or they would have been destroyed by negative publicity in the press. That means a lot to people who don’t write contrarian posts on blogs. Their life is marketing and money. These people don’t necessarily give a shit about extra rounds of playoffs as long as their franchise remains highly valued. Fans of these teams, who think with their hearts want to think that the signings have upside. It’s easy to be cynical when you’re basically a Spurs fan.

    That all being said, I think Carmelo may still prove to be worth all the baggage. I like the way he’s playing right now and don’t think we’d have a chance at the playoffs this year without him. I also think he’s better than Tiago Splitter, but what do I know? I’ve only been watching.

  125. No. I’m not kidding. Will Barton is an emerging star. He has played out of his mind this year. Twice as many steals as turnovers, and scoring at a good volume. The guy played well last year and is improving as young players do.

    I wish we had Will Barton to play next to Langston.

    (And yes. It was right to pick WCS at the time, and wrong in retrospect. For the first time in years, I am glad that I was not the one making that decision. I mean, think about how bad Cauley-Stein would look next to Faried, Kawhi, Will Barton, Hassan Whiteside, and all the other guys I desperately wanted the Knicks to draft…)

  126. If I recall correctly, when I asked Jowles his opinion on the LMA signing (he would have called us throwing a max deal at Aldridge the Knicksiest move ever) his response was essentially to defer to the greatness of Pop and Buford…who was he to question their decision-making?

    I wonder if he feels the same way, now that the Spurs are 10-3 with LaMarcus and his .495 TS% (career .531) leading the way.

    PS I noticed that Mr. Splitter is posting career lows in TS%, PER, rebs/36 and WS48. What gives?

  127. “For the first time in years, I am glad that I was not the one making that decision.”

    I dunno, you vs. Phil, that’s a close call…

  128. We’re in Miami tomorrow night against the DPOY Hassan Whiteside. The Heat overall have the #3 defense (vs our #10 offense), so it should be a good test to see who’s real and who’s not. Tomorrow should be interesting, and hopefully Porzingis does enough to make Whiteside consider signing his max contract with the Knicks this summer.

  129. @286, do you know why good scouting g is essential to winning organizations and rosters aren’t assembled based on algorythms? Because 48 minutes of watching a game can tell you more about a player than a stat sheet. Advanced stats and really Stats in general are great to supplement empirical evidence, but will never be a replacement.

  130. 5 wiz bucks to the poster who can correctly identify the line that made me audibly laugh for a good 10 seconds

  131. @298

    Gotta be either

    Because 48 minutes of watching a game can tell you more about a player than a stat sheet.

    or

    Will Barton is an emerging star.

  132. Advanced stats and really Stats in general are great to supplement empirical evidence, but will never be a replacement.

    I’m gonna guess Dred was thinking of this.

    I gotta think he’s trolling, but it’s just so hard to tell with all the spelling errors and poor grammar.

  133. Missed it by that much. oh well, at least they’re only wiz bucks. Even Kevin Durant won’t want those…

  134. Jowles is not a stat guy, he does not form his own opinions on whom the Knicks should draft or whom is good at basketball, and he’s wrong as often as the models he recites.

    Jowles is a charlatan hack who has never demonstrated any interesting basketball knowledge but has somehow successfully trolled this board for YEARS.

  135. Heat will be a great test…

    A couple interesting things.

    1. The Heat are 6.5 points better defensively with Whiteside off the floor. He’s a ridiculous physical specimen (his combined vertical and standing reach go well above Drummond), and can dominate the paint defensively better than anyone in a long time, but he’s still extremely foul prone and while extremely long, wide and a great jumper, does not possess good lateral quickness if he ever has to leave the paint and is a poor pnr defender .

    If the Knicks thought the game more creatively, this would be the opportunity to play KP at the 5 and run PNR with he and Melo all night.

    KP can have a significant advantage at both the 4 and the 5. Same can’t be said about Towns, or any other big in the league outside of AD.

  136. Jowles is not a stat guy, he does not form his own opinions on whom the Knicks should draft or whom is good at basketball, and he’s wrong as often as the models he recites.

    Jowles is a charlatan hack who has never demonstrated any interesting basketball knowledge but has somehow successfully trolled this board for YEARS.

    I was here before you and I’ll continue to be here when Carmelo forces a trade and you hold his pocket to the next franchise he fucks up. I am past the stage of trying to convince this board that TS% is more important than Carmelo’s Kobe Assist rate on 16-20 foot fadeaway stepback jumpers when being guarded by a 2+ year veteran player between the height of 6’6″ and 6’9″ (that’s the gist of your analytical oeuvre: cherry-picking and rationalizing ex post facto to fit your Carmelo’s-reproductive-organ-fondling hero narrative), but that doesn’t mean that I won’t stop to “lol” when you say something stupid, like the above post.

    Anyway guys, how about them Warriors?

  137. I was here before you and I’ll continue to be here when Carmelo forces a trade and you hold his pocket to the next franchise he fucks up. I am past the stage of trying to convince this board that TS% is more important than Carmelo’s Kobe Assist rate on 16-20 foot fadeaway stepback jumpers when being guarded by a 2+ year veteran player between the height of 6’6? and 6’9? (that’s the gist of your analytical oeuvre: cherry-picking and rationalizing ex post facto to fit your Carmelo’s-reproductive-organ-fondling hero narrative), but that doesn’t mean that I won’t stop to “lol” when you say something stupid, like the above post.

    Anyway guys, how about them Warriors?

    I welcome a poster that makes original research even if it is flawed, to one that thinks that you know everything of the game with the standard box score (processed to the usual stats TS%, AST%,…).

    BTW, there is no point in gloating about your “draft success” when:
    – The Knicks were not in a position to draft some of those.
    – You dont tell your misses.
    – You almost never never never gave an answer about who you would have drafted. Instead speking well only of 2 or 3 prospects in every draft and talking how the knicks should have traded down if they are not there. (To be fair, that was not the case of Faried)

  138. I am past the stage of trying to convince this board that TS% is more important than Carmelo’s Kobe Assist rate

    Right. You’re definitely past this stage even though you basically bring it up in every fucking thread.

  139. Most important move for championship Bulls: drafting Jordan
    Most important move for championship Spurs: drafting Duncan
    Most important move by championship Lakers: drafting Kobe
    Most important move by championship Heat: drafting Dwyane Wade
    Most important move by the Championship Celtics: drafting Paul Pierce
    Most important move by championship Mavs: drafting Dirk Nowitzki
    Most important move by championship Warriors: drafting Curry

    Only the Pistons didn’t fit the mold

    The most important move by the Knicks in the last 30 years: drafting Kristaps Porzingis

    Jowles would have taken WCS.

    Need I say more?

  140. @309

    I agree with the overall take but it’s not that simple.

    Most important move by championship Lakers: Lakers did not draft Kobe, they traded for him
    Most important move by the Championship Celtics: Trading KG for peanuts and signing Ray Allen.
    Most important move by championship Heat: While Wade is a GREAT player and he helped signing Lebron, you can’t take him or Shaq out of this conversation.

  141. Heat will be a great test…

    Yes they will be. My instant calculus…
    Dragic > Calderon
    Wade > Afflalo
    Deng Lopez
    Bench = Bench
    On paper, the Knicks are going to lose the game, but I’ve been surprised a few times already.

  142. MSA, re: Kobe, the Lakers essentially drafted him. The trade was made in principal the day before the draft, and the Lakers told Charlotte who to draft at that spot 5 minutes before they used their pick on Kobe.

    http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/mvt-most-valuable-tweeters/201407/kobe-bryant-charlotte-hornets-los-angeles-lakers

    “Instead, the trade, made by the franchise now known as the New Orleans Pelicans, was actually verbally agreed to before the draft.

    “The deal was actually done a day ahead of time, and it was Vlade for a player to be named,” Branch said in 2008. “If I remember right, they didn’t even tell us who they wanted us to pick until about five minutes before the pick was made. So it was never a matter of us actually drafting Kobe.””

  143. Re: Celtics, If Pierce wasn’t there, there would be no reason for Garnett to agree to go there. Pierce is to Garnett what Kobe was to Shaq and Gasol.

    Re: Heat, Wade was BY FAR the best player on the first chip team, Shaq was well into decline. There would be no sense in getting Shaq if Wade wasn’t there. Same with LeBron and Bosh, although they were in their respective primes.

    Bottom line: none of those teams go to the finals multiple times and win championships without that cornerstone player from the draft. The Knicks haven’t even been in a position to swing and miss in a big way like they were this year. All indications thus far: they didn’t miss. Kudos to Jax for that. His legacy seems safe. Would we be saying that right now if we went for WCS, Winslow, Mudiay, Hezonja? Maybe someday, but not right now. We’d be lamenting that he passed over PK, 100%, like Philly and Lakers are right now.

  144. Z-man: As I said I agree with most of it. But I don’t agree with the simplification.

    Shaq arrived the same season as Kobe. He was a stablished all-star that was the face of the franchise and wanted to leave Orlando. Who was the cornerstone? Kobe or Shaq?

    Paul Pierce was a borderline all-star player. Until the trade he was named 3rd all-NBA team once. Kevin Garnett refused to guarantee resigning with the Celtics until Ray Allen was signed. Pierce was clearly a good player but not the reason for the Celtics turnaround in 2007.

    You are right about Wade being the cornerstone of the Heat. But he certainly wasn’t the reason to attract Shaq to Miami. The Lakers were a mess and he just wanted out. Wade was a 2nd year rising player by the time.

  145. Its clear The PorzinGod has studied and broke down the games of great big men past. He’s already used the Olajuwon Dream Shake and Jabbar Skyhook. I’ve also seen him attempt the Duncan corner bankshot. Word is that he also has used the Dirk fadeaway. What else can he learn? The McHale pumpfake?

    The JR step-back jumper?

    Pssst, speaking of shooting, take a gander at trend in Zinger 3FG%:
    Last 10 games – 35.7
    Last 9 games – 37.5
    Last 8 games – 40.0
    Last 7 games – 41.2
    Last 6 games – 43.8
    Last 5 games – 46.7
    Last 4 games – 54.5
    Last 3 games – 71.4

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