NY Post: Rick Pitino on Whether John Calipari Should Coach the Knicks

New Iona College coach (which is so hilarious), Rick Pitino had a Q&A with the Post and he answered a lot of questions about the Knicks, but the question that has gotten the most attention has been about John Calipari (why Pitino’s insights into John Calpari are newsworthy is a bit beyond me, but hey, we’re all starving for some NBA news, right?):

Q: You don’t think Calipari would be interested in the Knicks job?
A: I really don’t. I think when you coach at Kentucky, you have the premier job in college basketball — in terms of he can recruit any player he wants, he has unbelievable facilities, he’s gonna win his 30 games every year, and he’s got the best job in all of basketball. So I’m not sure why he would ever want to have a job that’s not the best job in all of basketball. He’s smarter than me when it comes to that.

Funny self-own about the time he left Kentucky for the Boston Celtics.

Would anyone here even really want John Calipari? He’s not a bad coach, by any means, but is he really a difference making coach? He hasn’t coached in the NBA for two decades! I don’t see the point.

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209 thoughts to “NY Post: Rick Pitino on Whether John Calipari Should Coach the Knicks”

  1. Easy pass on Coach Cal. I’ve always viewed him as a coach who did less with more, and I want a guy who is willing to sacrifice their WL record early on for the development of our young guys. I think Cal would want to win right away and his rotations would piss me off, and I’m definitely not sold on him as an Xs and Os guy.

  2. I’d just as soon stick with Miller, but that won’t happen. Atkinson is ideal, but that won’t happen either.

    Frankly, it’s nice not to have to worry about what bonehead move the Knicks will make for a while.

  3. bobneptune: I mean CNN and MSLSD put the creepy porn lawyer on 100 times as some sort of expert and actually thought he would be a great candidate for president…. so yeah…. I question their objectivity a little bit. But if they say something and can back it up with facts, I’m happy to listen.

    And Fox News (most notably their most popular host) and just about every other conservative media outlet gave a platform for years to a creepy businessman who was some sort of expert on the then president’s place of birth.

    Difference is, we can quibble on whether what Trump did was illegal or not, but he actually DID have an affair with Daniels and then paid her off. Even Trump finally admitted that Obama was born in the US, period.

    So why do you never call Fox News out the way you do the “mainstream media?” Which is especially ironic since Fox is more “mainstream” and more intellectually dishonest by wide margins.

    That’s what makes you such a foil here…the smarter you try to appear, the dumber you look. But yeah, keep on defending “Honest Don” and his 20,000 lies and trashing the media’s coverage of him, even when he eventually costs thousands of lives by his minimization of this crisis.

  4. It’s bizarre the shit they all latch on to with their talking points. “CNN had the porn lawyer on a lot” is the shittiest talking point and yet I’ve heard that same exact thing from a conservative relative of mine who loves Fox. It has to be something they bring up a lot on, like, fucking Tucker Carlson or some shit. That can’t be a coincidence that more than one person gives the slightest shit about how many times that Stormy Daniels’ lawyer was on CNN.

  5. That’s good to hear, in a general way, no offense to your friend. Runs contrary to everything else I’ve read and heard so it makes me think the regime is haphazard, at best.

    I truly wonder about the legality of denying services and goods to citizens of the US. I believe you can either shut something down or leave it open, but I don’t thing you’re allowed to leave it open and discri******. That’s why the stories you hear are of US citizens going to other countries and being restricted, or non US citizens being restricted here.

  6. Ultimately, as bad as Trump has been, hardly any mistake you call him out on would have stopped this. Does anyone truly believe if we had doubled the CDC budget, we would be safe today? Or that a few more government officials here and there would have been able to stop this from coming here? Or that if we only had enough tests, every citizen would have been dutiful and obedient and followed instructions?

    The only way any president could have stopped this involved three things no president would be likely to do:

    1. Close the borders

    2. Wilfully plunge our economy into recession as a precaution

    3. Infringe upon civil liberties early and often *before* this became a crisis.

    That’s it. That’s all that would have stopped this. And everyone screaming at Trump probably knows this.

  7. Hubert – I don’t agree. There is a lot more the President and govt could have done. Instead they were all liquidating their stock market portfolios. Now Trump is trying to figure out how to bail out Doral.

  8. 2. Wilfully plunge our economy into recession as a precaution

    A pandemic was coming. The economy was going to go into a recession. There was no stopping it. He, though, decided to wait until it actually started (it had to be simple wishcasting, hoping what he knew was coming wouldn’t actually come) before actually doing the things that, had he done them as recently as earlier this month, would have made a significant difference.

    Much of the current shitstorm in NYC is from people spreading the virus circa March 9th. What if social distancing had started March 2nd? How would that not be a much better situation than what we’re in today?

  9. It’s not about stopping it. It’s about doing what experts in infectious disease say to do early on to flatten the curve. Hard to do that when even prior to the event, the CDC and other agencies created to protect our health, our food supply, our transportation industry and our environment have been decimated for 3 years on direct orders from the president, and cronies and shills have been put in place to run the remnants of these agencies. It is hard to do when you play the blame game and minimize the nature of the beast, as Trump did for precious weeks and continues to do today. It’s hard to do when you antagonize the adversarial country which produces a huge percentage of our medicines/ingredients and medical equipment. It’s hard to do when you contradict the most respected member of the task force on a daily basis.

  10. Yeah, it’s a completely ridiculous argument. We were all watching this happen in China. Every intelligence agency was telling Trump a pandemic was coming and to get on a war footing. And he did bupkis.

    And he’ll get re-elected for it. Basically like an asteroid strike on the economy, a mini-ice age, and people think he did a fine job.

    All that said, there is something that bothers me more. This effing reboot of Deadspin. Some of the shittiest, worst journalism I have ever seen. The only way to understand their business strategy is maybe to monetize all the fans of the old Deadspin by getting them to hateread that offal.

    I am stuck in an apartment with two small children. Have to vent.

  11. Interesting analysis in the NYT ( which relies on assumptions and extrapolation)
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/22/world/coronavirus-spread.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage
    I assume the US and other countries knew about the risk to some degree in December and had our and other governments locked our(their) borders to all incoming foreign travelers( admittedly an extreme measure, but rights always come into conflict and requires balancing the equities in each circumstance), the severity and magnitude of the seeds of the virus would have been mitigated substantially. This was happening right in the midst of the impeachment process and it strains credulity that anyone could have gotten DJT to focus on this issue. That nothing to that affect has leaked suggests that this may not have even been raised.

  12. That’s why the stories you hear are of US citizens going to other countries and being restricted, or non US citizens being restricted here.

    What I’m saying is that I’m hearing of foreign nationals not being tested in the US. Granted, they weren’t Asian, which could easily be a dividing line with the current regime.

  13. The link I posted had the headline: Study Finds Unexpected Coronavirus Symptoms That Could Be the First Sign of Infection: Digestive Issues.
    Even the slow boy could divine this wasn’t a right wing hit piece with the smallest modicum of intellectual curiosity.

    Because a clickbait-y headline is what matters. It’s as if the lesson you took from The Boy Who Cried Wolf is that we need to take all claims of wolf encroachment seriously, regardless of where the information comes from. This is why you are the sucker.

  14. Here’s an example of what responsible governance could have achieved in this pandemic. Sources are the KY and TN boards of health. KY took it seriously (more seriously than any other state did AFAIK) while TN followed Trump’s playbook. They’re both a several weeks behind NY on the initial infection, Cuomo and de Blasio really should have acted much sooner.

  15. Trump’s worst crime and worst mistake was his happy talk, and his insinuations that this virus was no different than the flu, and that it was a hoax and nothing to worry about. Lots of dipshits across the land treat the words that come out of his asshole-shaped mouth as complete infallible truth.

    To this very day I see morons on social media who are trying to defend Trump’s early March position that this whole thing is overblown. And as a result they’re still not taking distancing seriously, and as a result many will die unnecessarily.

    That’s his worst crime and it’s unforgivable. My mom and dad live in Broward County, they’re both around 70, my mom has COPD and my dad is in chemo and has pulmonary fibrosis. They’re dead if they get this. If the president had taken this seriously from the jump they’d have better odds. But he fucking didn’t, and no amount of revisionist history or partisan ass-licking is going to change that plain and simple fact.

  16. Respectfully, while I have major qualms with the way Cuomo and especially deBlasio hemmed and hawed, it is not fair to compare the state with the largest, most cosmopolitan and internationally connected population center that is also a financial, cultural, political and tourism capital of the world with states that have nearly zero international connectivity and importance. shutting down NYC is not the same as shutting down Lexington or Memphis.

    My dinky 400-student public middle school has scores of students that are either first or second generation from all over the country and world, and from all income levels, just on the basis of being located on the UWS of manhattan. The vast majority of my students, walk or take subways and MTA buses to get to school and have the option of walking the neighborhood to eat lunch. So many more variables to control than in TN or KY.

    PS that NBC figure who just died (Lawrence Edgeworth) was a parent of a former student at my school. I interacted with him many times, he was one gruff hombre.

  17. The only way any president could have stopped this involved three things no president would be likely to do:

    1. Close the borders

    2. Wilfully plunge our economy into recession as a precaution

    3. Infringe upon civil liberties early and often *before* this became a crisis.

    That’s it. That’s all that would have stopped this. And everyone screaming at Trump probably knows this.

    Come on man, there’s so much wrong with this.

    First of all, there’s a ton of space between “stopping this” and where we are now. No one is saying Trump could’ve and should’ve literally prevented the Coronavirus from coming to the United States.

    What we’re saying is while public health experts and doctors (and Senators in private meetings with their donors after receiving classified briefings) were sounding the alarm, Trump and his sycophants on cable news, in Congress, etc. were doing the whole “it’s the flu” thing. This undermined the social distancing message until it was way too late to get this thing under any kind of control.

    Obviously it’s impossible to nail down exactly what the effects of disbanding the NSC directorate for global health were, but I think it’s pretty fucking fair to say they were, um, not good! Experts were up in arms at the time about how that decision left us much more vulnerable to a pandemic. Well, what do you know!

    It’s not hard to figure out Trump’s calculations. He’s a simple man. You don’t get much of any political acclaim for things like pandemic preparation, so it’s just not something he ever gave a shit about. That’s all well and good until a pandemic occurs.

  18. all I know is I started stockpiling non-perishable food long before the federal government started stockpiling necessary medical supplies, and I don’t have a global intelligence network.

    I think my first choice for HC would be Atkinson-he seemed to do a good job with the young Nets, the Knicks are young, he’s a CAA guy, and he’s not Mark Jackson. He seeemed to fail the get along with the superstars part of the job, but the Knicks don’t have any superstars, and if things work out we can fire him in a couple years after we get a foundation in place. Feel like he’s more likely to wind up on the sixers, but we should at least make him a strong offer. after that, I’m not sure. Maybe go after someone from the Raptors or Bucks? Do they have any hot assistants?

  19. thenoblefacehumper: It’s not hard to figure out Trump’s calculations. He’s a simple man. You don’t get much of any political acclaim for things like pandemic preparation, so it’s just not something he ever gave a shit about. That’s all well and good until a pandemic occurs.

    Well, look at the bright side, at least Trump is listening to experts and proactively addressing the potentially catastrophic impact of human activities on global warming. He’s beefing up regulations, transitioning our economy away from fossil fuels and toward zero-emissions, calling on the world to fight this spectre together, etc.

  20. Much of the current shitstorm in NYC is from people spreading the virus circa March 9th. What if social distancing had started March 2nd? How would that not be a much better situation than what we’re in today?

    This is why I think bob has a point.

    Put aside the question of you being able to pinpoint what day caused the most damage.

    What I’m saying is that on March 13, 14, and 15, this city’s bars and restaurants were raging. So the idea we all would have done what we were supposed to if only the president had told us sooner strikes me as unreasonable. (And that puts aside the stupidity of people needing to get their behavioral cues from the president.) This is not a society that listens to its leaders like South Korea.

    Also, every single governor had the authority to take action without waiting for the president. None of them did.

  21. I’m a huge UK college basketball fan as my family is originally from Lexington. I’m wary of any successful college coach making the jump to the pros but I want to give my two cents about Cal because I think the image of him as just a good recruiter is flat out wrong.

    Pretty much every year U.K. does well in basketball. Yes they have had some of the best recruits but there are plenty of years recently where they started out not so hot but as the season progresses they always get stronger and stronger. Cal has had many different types of teams bc every year a bunch of his players go pro. He’s had teams that had amazing guards, teams that were well rounded at all positions and teams that had good big men but no shooters. He’s always adapted his system and style to fit what was best with the team he’s had, not remain rigid with just one style of play. And as the year progresses his players and the team tend to get better and improve on their weaknesses. There have been many years recently where I thought “oh this year we’ll make the tourney but lose in the first or second round only to be pleasantly surprised by them going further than expected. I think he’s actually a pretty good development coach and I think that is actually a big reason why he gets so many top prospects.

  22. I am stuck in an apartment with two small children. Have to vent.

    I am stuck below an apartment with two young (and very active) children, one crying baby, one barking dog, and a piano. I feel you.

    Also, there is a covid 19 positive household in my building now, so I’m not leaving my apt.

    I vacillate between empathy for my upstairs neighbor’s plight and hoping they are the household with the virus.

  23. “It’s not about stopping it. It’s about doing what experts in infectious disease say to do early on to flatten the curve.”

    It’s also about sending very mixed messages to a confused and concerned public. “Anybody can get tested” at one point in the news conference and “we are unprepared for mass testing” later in the same news conference. Like Jowles and Lady Jowles were, I know A LOT of people in my community who are/were symptomatic with absolutely no idea what to do other than stay home and wait it out. These are educated, and, more to the point, rich people, and they are down at the local CVS picking up antibiotics just to rule out strep throat.

    It’s bad governance, and it starts at the top.

  24. I think my first choice for HC would be Atkinson-he seemed to do a good job with the young Nets, the Knicks are young, he’s a CAA guy, and he’s not Mark Jackson.

    I think Calipari is a better coach than he’s given credit for the reasons swift laid out (my fam’s from Covington/Paintsville!) but I’d prefer Atkinson for the reasons above. The NBA is just such a different beast than college.

    shutting down NYC is not the same as shutting down Lexington…So many more variables to control than in TN or KY.

    These things are mostly true, but Hubert is right that we’d be in a better position had we acted sooner. We still have those same extra variables, and we’re in a worse position than we could have been. It’s not like this wasn’t obviously coming.

  25. “It’s bizarre the shit they all latch on to with their talking points. “CNN had the porn lawyer on a lot” is the shittiest talking point and yet I’ve heard that same exact thing from a conservative relative of mine who loves Fox”

    Why is it an invalid “talking point” to point out the MSM outlets had a Shyster like Avenatti on 252 times as an example of extreme bias (and some hosts calling for him to run for president) while Fox had him on twice?

    Source:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2019/05/23/michael-avenatti-once-dominated-cable-news-now-hes-watching-it/

    Cliff’s :

    “By the count of NewsBusters — a conservative-leaning site that tracks the mainstream media — the Maddow-Avenatti moment was among 254 TV news appearances turned in by the telegenic lawyer over a year starting in March 2018. Cable watchers are familiar with his landing pads: CNN accounted for 121 Avenatti appearances, with MSNBC right behind at 108. They have no rivals in this category. Fox News hosted two appearances.”

  26. bob, Fox News has the right wing equivalent of Avenatti on 24 fucking hours a day. It’s a non-stop, unending fire hose of bullshit, an endless parade of Trump fellators and wingnut talking point peddlers, occasionally interrupted by ads for catheters and gold investments. I’m not going to say that other news networks don’t have their own bias, but Fox News wins hands down in terms of utter shamelessness.

    But Avenatti doe. Whatever.

  27. Bob has been on this site for years. He should know that referencing Tucker Carlson and Fox News as a news source is going to be received the same way referencing per game stats are. And for good reason. This is an educated, progressive thinking community looking to move conversations beyond baseline, antiquated bullshit.

  28. JK47:
    bob, Fox News has the right wing equivalent of Avenatti on 24 fucking hours a day. It’s a non-stop, unending fire hose of bullshit, an endless parade of Trump fellators and wingnut talking point peddlers, occasionally interrupted by ads for catheters and gold investments. I’m not going to say that other news networks don’t have their own bias, but Fox News wins hands down in terms of utter shamelessness.

    But Avenatti doe. Whatever.

    So well said. How telling is bob’s lack of outrage at this scumbag president’s 5-year crusade about our first black president’s legitimacy? How many time did Fox et. al. have Trump on the show peddling that debunked racist bullshit to adoring fans?

    Trump and Avenatti are birds of the same feather, malignant narcissists and pathological liars to the core.

  29. You guys are pretty funny sometimes with you cognitive biases and selective memory.

    Trump should have known it was a no-brainer to suspend all international flights. What a bunch of result players. He took crap from many quarters over this.

    Let me remind you of the position of the head of the WHO (the world’s preeminent authority on infectous diseases ) when Trump first moved to restrict international travel the first week in FEBRUARY:

    “World Health Organization chief Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus said Tuesday that widespread travel bans and restrictions weren’t needed to stop the outbreak and could “have the effect of increasing fear and stigma, with little public health benefit.”

    Got that fellas…. the head of the WHO was upbraiding Trump’s travel restrictions in February because the have LITTLE PUBLIC HEALTH BENEFIT.

    But Trump should have known better….. got it!!!!! He did have the correct instinct and any moron with HS biology understood, his error was not going far enough fast enough.

    But had he listened to the scientists we’d be in a lot worse shape than we are today.

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/02/04/coronavirus-quaratine-travel-110750

  30. bobneptune: But Trump should have known better….. got it!!!!! He did have the correct instinct and any moron with HS biology understood, his error was not going far enough fast enough.

    It amazes me that you could read that article, and that’s your takeaway.

  31. I just want an innovative, energetic, young coach that can grow with the team….and I don’t want Caliparia,Thibs, Jackson, Miller etc., …..gotta be some assistants or a college guy but with the Dolan/Rose/Stoute troika…likely gonna be a retread….Atkinson would be good but he is probably too smart to even want to agree to an interview…

  32. If you want to argue that this policy or that policy was the right one, sure whatever. Maybe you’re right. I might even give benefit of the doubt.

    His public rhetoric, though, was beyond the pale. There is no fucking excuse for the way he pooh-poohed this for weeks and weeks. He had a chance to lead and he blew it. He was more concerned about the immediate news cycle.

  33. “Bob has been on this site for years. He should know that referencing Tucker Carlson and Fox News as a news source is going to be received the same way referencing per game stats are. And for good reason. This is an educated, progressive thinking community looking to move conversations beyond baseline, antiquated bullshit.”

    Keep patting yourselves on the back for how smart you are, and how “progressive” you are whatever that means.. The facts on the ground argue otherwise…..

  34. Yeah someone who thinks Trump is capable of telling the truth when it doesn’t suit his interests has a real handle on facts. K

  35. “It amazes me that you could read that article, and that’s your takeaway.”

    Seriously…. what amazes you?

    The Politico piece features prominently a blurb by a world’s preeminent authority on infectious diseases the head of the revered WHO pillorying Trump for being too aggressive with the china restrictions. He goes on to say travel bans weren’t needed and of little use.

    Scrolling down in the piece the head of the House Foreign Affairs Committed said:

    Bera, who will chair a House Foreign Affairs subcommittee hearing on the epidemic on Wednesday, said he’s concerned the Trump administration’s cautionary measures may be backfiring.

    “We shouldn’t have an antagonistic relationship with the Chinese. We should be working hand in hand,” he said. Besides the diplomatic blowback, he said, the travel ban “probably doesn’t make sense,” since the outbreak has already spread to several other countries.

    “At this juncture, it’s going to be very hard to contain the virus,” Bera told POLITICO, noting that his priority now is to get CDC’s epidemiologists into China to study the origin of the pandemic.

    Bera added that the mandatory quarantines “may be overkill,” pointing to experts who say governments should opt for voluntary steps whenever possible, since people usually comply with self-quarantine orders to protect themselves and others from disease.”

    From those quotes I conclude there was much authoritative blow back to just the China restriction.

    The common view here is Trump was a moron…. it was obviously the thing to do and he should have closed Europe at the first sign of contagion.

    My point is his actions were hardly popular at the time. And science embodied by the head of the WHO thought it was foolish and negative.

    He was clearly right…. he just didn’t go far enough.

  36. I have a boring Rick Pitino story to tell, but maybe it will change the direction of the thread.

    I was Saratoga racetrack years ago and stopped off at Siro’s for a quick drink after the races. I ran into a racetrack friend from AQU/BEL at the bar and hung out with him for awhile. Suddenly Rick Pitino came over. Apparently, my racetrack friend and Pitino had gone to school together and hadn’t seen each other for awhile. They decided to catch up. So I hung out with them. Pitino bought us drinks. Pitino was very much into racing at the time and owned some very good horses.

    Very boring story, but fun at the time for me.

  37. >He was clearly right…. he just didn’t go far enough.<

    Apparently, it was a paper by Nassim Taleb that influenced the decision to close China (at least that's what Nassim has claimed on Twitter). He was calling for even more drastic actions that than and was of course correct.

  38. “Bob has been on this site for years. He should know that referencing Tucker Carlson and Fox News as a news source is going to be received the same way referencing per game stats are.”

    I guess you didn’t see this…..

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/03/19/tucker_carlson_calls_for_burr_to_resign_no_greater_moral_crime_than_betraying_country_in_a_time_of_crisis.html

    Did Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow say anything similar about Sen Feinstein? probably not eh

  39. lmao Feinstein should be investigated like the rest of them, even though her assets (unlike Burr’s) are in a blind trust, who the fuck is arguing otherwise

  40. ‘I have a boring Rick Pitino story to tell, but maybe it will change the direction of the thread.’

    It was a nice story, and thanks for sharing. But the only thing that will change the direction of this thread is if Bob shuts the fuck up. Which he won’t, because he’s a demon troll.

    I can only presume in between posts he’s the one that is Zoom-bombing on-line public events with porn.

  41. “Did Don Lemon or Rachel Maddow say anything similar about Sen Feinstein? probably not eh”

    Sigh.

    I don’t know, Bob. I don’t watch them.

    >Bob said “Keep patting yourselves on the back for how smart you are, and how “progressive” you are whatever that means..”<

    Progressive means: favoring or advocating progress, change, improvement, or reform, as opposed to wishing to maintain things as they are.

    That is LITERALLY what this site was created to do. It doesn’t end with basketball stats, though. If you want to argue against that, it won’t be embraced by this audience to any worthwhile degree for you. (And I am patting myself on the back for knowing that, because if I didn’t know that by now, I’d either be helplessly stupid or insufferably stubborn, and I am proud to be neither.)

  42. So Bob, forget about who said what in the media. What’s your assessment of Trump during this crisis? Anything you would improve upon, or you think he’s nailed it?

  43. He was clearly right…. he just didn’t go far enough.

    Trump’s travel ‘ban’ just forced Americans abroad to come back – with no screening, no testing, no quarantine – and spread the virus further in their communities. It was a simple idea from a simple mind that exacerbated the problem because the administration was incapable of thinking through what they were doing and incapable of handling the aftermath of their decisions. But we shouldn’t expect anything else from the sort of people who think that a lawyer getting booked on talking heads shows means that everybody wants that guy to run for president. And who also seems to think that Knickerblogger is out carousing instead of self-isolating? “Arrogant self-destructive disrespectful people” sure sounds Trump-ish to me..

  44. Have to take a break from this site, watching Chairman Trump’s propaganda briefing:

    ____ is doing a tremendous job

    The economy will skyrocket when this is over

    Thank you Mr President for your incredible leadership during this crisis

    Lots of people are saying we’re doing an incredible job

  45. This argument should just stop. When others others on this site, ones who don’t like Trump, said blocking flights from China was a good move, nobody argued. When Bob says the same thing, you all jump on him and there is a big argument that is getting tiresome to read.

  46. Just blocking folks with Chinese passports from entering the country was never an effective policy and it backfired. Not as badly as his Euro travel ban backfired with all those people having to stand in close quarters in the airport for hours because the incompetents are incapable of thinking through the consequences of their decisions did, but it still backfired. In the same way that calling it the ‘China Virus’ led to Asians getting randomly assaulted in the streets, though that might have been by plan.

    But:

    When others others on this site, ones who don’t like Trump, said blocking flights from China was a good move, nobody argued.

    Bob told us that we all complained about how the ban was racist, and bob is clearly always right so now I’m confused…

  47. This press conference is pathetic…”please pat me on the back because I refused my 450k salary”…like who gives a shit…

  48. two or three weeks ago…”oh..this is a hoax…” and ” it’s just one chinese person”…now its “a war against the virus”…his freakin tune changed real fast…

  49. Has anyone been paying attention to how bad it might get in Mexico?

    Mexican President Obrador continues to attend mass public rallies, shaking hands and kissing babies. Asked how he was protecting Mexico, López Obrador removed two religious amulets from his wallet and proudly showed them off.

    “The protective shield is the ‘Get thee behind me, Satan,’” López Obrador said, reading off the inscription on the amulet, “Stop, enemy, for the Heart of Jesus is with me.”

    Apparently Mexico’s vice minister of health has declared the president immune via his faith in God, as well.

  50. Trump spent the last 20 minutes of the press conference ranting about the billions he’s lost since becoming president.

    Yes, during the existential crisis of our lifetimes, our president stands in front of the American people lamenting his financial losses.

    How anyone (including Bob Uranus) can defend this guy is beyond my comprehension.

  51. So, let this sink in.

    Donald Trump’s grandfather and great uncle died of flu in the 1918 pandemic.

    I mean, it’s hard to know what category to put that fact in.

  52. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/us-intelligence-reports-from-january-and-february-warned-about-a-likely-pandemic/2020/03/20/299d8cda-6ad5-11ea-b5f1-a5a804158597_story.html

    Inside the White House, Trump’s advisers struggled to get him to take the virus seriously, according to multiple officials with knowledge of meetings among those advisers and with the president.

    Azar couldn’t get through to Trump to speak with him about the virus until Jan. 18, according to two senior administration officials. When he reached Trump by phone, the president interjected to ask about vaping and when flavored vaping products would be back on the market, the senior administration officials said.

    Mulvaney then began convening more regular meetings. In early briefings, however, officials said Trump was dismissive because he did not believe that the virus had spread widely throughout the United States.

    I mean imagine defending literally any aspect of this response. A stupid, vain, incompetent, unqualified man revealed himself as such. It’s that simple.

  53. Yiddish proverb: “If one KB poster calleth thee a jackass, pay him no mind. If the majority of KB posters calleth thee a jackass, get thee a saddle.”

  54. Donald Trump’s grandfather and great uncle died of flu in the 1918 pandemic.

    pence freaks me out a bit, so, I don’t know…plus, no way would I ever want for him to be a martyr…

  55. “So Bob, forget about who said what in the media. What’s your assessment of Trump during this crisis? Anything you would improve upon, or you think he’s nailed it?”

    First, since we all have a little extra time on our hands take a layman’s primer on virology by reading these books I’ve read about the subject over the last 30 years:

    And the Band Played On (HIV)

    Virus Hunters (the discovery of the first retrovirus and reverse transcriptase) (HIV and the politics within the scientific community)

    The Hot Zone (Ebola)

    The Speckled Monster (small pox)

    You will get an appreciation for just how insidious these little fuckers are. This particular virus is terrible because it has the “perfect combination” of lethality (fairly low but still substantial) and transmisibility (fairly high).

    Ebola is wickedly lethal (~ 60% mortality) but incredibly difficult to spread. You need direct bodily fluid contact to transmit (like HIV) but the infected person can’t spread it without fluid contact AND once the person is symptomatic he is obviously ill (bleeding eyeballs and mucous membranes) and he quickly dies so he doesn’t have much chance to spread it.

    This little devil has a much lower mortality rate 1-3% but infected people often don’t know it for 2 weeks while they are shedding virus via cough droplets and many are totally asymptomatic shedding virus like a cross between Johnny Appleseed and Typhoid Mary.

    It is the perfect storm of a virus.

    To Be continued……

  56. Do Nothing Donny is really itching for social distancing to end in 15 days. He’s sending out all caps scream tweets about it. He thinks the stock market is gonna come back and this will all be over in 15 days, isn’t that adorable?

    He. Is. A. Fucking. Moron.

  57. https://coronastrong.us/home – decent data. Hopkins is doing an OK job too. Orangeton’s CDC is clueless. He better not recover from this…

    If we extrapolate and “account” for people who have the virus but are asymptomatic and will never be tested – you’ll get a mortality rate is about the same as with influenza. (flue)

    Look at NYC. As we test more, cases have been doubling every day and half or so. So we know that there are thousands out there who have it but are not tested.

    But even with the people who have tested positive, 22,717 and 114 deaths, – we are looking at the .05% mortality rate for conformed cases. This is actually much lower than influenza. When comparing apples to apples, meaning influenza hospitalizations vs deaths – mortality rate is .75%.

    Experts told us that trump couldn’t win; they told us that real estate only goes up because they don’t make anymore land; they told us that .com bubble is nonsense and its different this time; experts told us that Saddam had WMDs. experts told us bitcoin is a form of currency; experts put Bernie Maddof in charge of NASDAQ.

    Folks, – our media and our politicians have been all duped by so called experts again. We live in a hyper sensationalized world, – so an over the top unreasonable hype/panic is a common sense result. Why is this unfathomable to most?

  58. Fuck off reub, you’re a mouth breathing idiot and everybody here hates you.

    I say reub gets banned again, who’s with me?

  59. “So Bob, forget about who said what in the media. What’s your assessment of Trump during this crisis? Anything you would improve upon, or you think he’s nailed it?”

    No elected official in the world has anything close to nailed it.

    On Background I included a timeline in the link below to eliminate result playing.

    stipulating Patient zero in the USA arrived back in Seattle 1/15 and was in quarantine by 1/20 with supposedly all of his leads/contacts being tracked down

    Timeline:

    12/31… China first notified WHO of unusual pneumonia in Wuhan.

    1/7… Virus identified by China

    1/11 … First death in Wuhan

    January 23… WHO says that the outbreak did not yet constitute a public emergency of international concern and there was “no evidence” of the virus spreading between humans outside of China.

    1/23… Wuhan placed under quarantine

    February 4… the U.S. State Department issued a level 4 travel advisory mandating that foreign citizens who had been to China be turned away, and Americans who had been to China must undergo screening and possibly be put in quarantine for 14 days.

    2/28 …. First US fatality

    2/28… First case of community spread.

    Now …. up until I don’t quibble alot with the way things played out other than he should have closed all the borders when he did the 2/4 travel advisory. That would have helped and it isn’t hindsight to say that now.

    Repatriating Americans from overseas as long as they were sequestered for 14 days as they were when the evacuated Americans in Wuhan was all reasonable.

    Up until 2/28 things were reasonably buttoned up. But the minute they found the first case of community spread we should have gone into full LDPM (lock down poker mode). Wuhan style. Ground the commercial fleet for 30-60 day’s. No international travel except for repatriating Americans after holding them in quarantine. No travel other than completely essential things (food, meds doctors)

    To be continued….

  60. With you.

    Here’s a pair of pretty good summaries.

    https://medium.com/tomas-pueyo/coronavirus-articles-endorsements-fdc68614f8e3

    A quote from the ‘Hammer and the Dance’ one:

    There are 4 million admissions to the ICU in the US every year, and 500k (~13%) of them die. Without ICU beds, that share would likely go much closer to 80%. Even if only 50% died, in a year-long epidemic you go from 500k deaths a year to 2M, so you’re adding 1.5M deaths, just with collateral damage.

  61. Of course shutting down the country 3 days before Super Tuesday probably wouldn’t have been accepted very well….. by well…… about half the country….. but it would have been the right thing to do. Without question.

    Isolation is the only safe haven from an easily communicable quite lethal virus.

  62. It tickles me that my friend Tomas is killing the game with these articles.

    @bob, you really scared me with that digestive article. My wife was throwing up violently all weekend. Luckily I realized it was because I fed her rancid rice. She’s recovered but hates me. Such is marriage!

  63. JK…so lets say my analysis of limited available data is wrong and the actual mortality rate is what the experts say it is somewhere between 1% and 3%. So, – we leave that alone because it clearly upsets you.

    Lets talk about the intensity in which this virus transmits. Its super infectious and the data on that is clear. Coumo who on the same day he shuts down entire empire state says that its too infections and reality is that 60% to 80% of all NY-erks will get it anyway.

    So, if we all are going to get it anyway, other then driving ourselves into an economic depression, – what are we really accomplishing?

  64. Read the article I sent (apparently KBPR’s pal). Willful ignorance and active stupidity right now is not a good thing.

  65. Jk..that is not a classy response…Here is from across the river:

    New Jersey’s top public health official, Judith Persichilli, told NJ.com some frightening news last week when she said everyone would get the virus, including her.

    “I’m definitely going to get it. We all are,” Persichilli said. “I’m just waiting.”

    At the age of 71, Persichilli is at high-risk for severe illness relating to a COVID-19 infection. She said when she gets sick, it’ll probably be mild and will last for a few days.

    Persichilli has studied all the COVID-19 pandemic models and consulted with experts on how best to prepare New Jersey for an outbreak.

  66. GianaDani:
    Jk..that is not a classy response…Here is from across the river:

    New Jersey’s top public health official, Judith Persichilli, told NJ.com some frightening news last week when she said everyone would get the virus, including her.

    “I’m definitely going to get it. We all are,” Persichilli said. “I’m just waiting.”

    At the age of 71, Persichilli is at high-risk for severe illness relating to a COVID-19 infection. She said when she gets sick, it’ll probably be mild and will last for a few days.

    Persichilli has studied all the COVID-19 pandemic models and consulted with experts on how best to prepare New Jersey for an outbreak.

    There’s now like a billion articles on flattening the curve, including the one linked. Please go read them.

  67. By spreading out the number of infected over a longer timeframe, you save lives by allowing hospitals and ICUs to provide better care at any given time instead of forcing them to deal with a massive spike in infections they don’t have the capability to handle. You also should take into account the number of people who would be admitted to the ICU anyway. If the ICU is full of coronavirus victims, they get told to pound sand and probably die.

    Also, I lived in Mexico City for a time and I am very frightened for what’s going to happen there. Most people there don’t have the means to stop going to work and will continue to do so, riding crowded buses and subways every day, and President AMLO is an idiot who won’t do anything until absolutely forced to. Lots of people in Mexico City are going to die, and some number of them will be people I know and care about.

  68. ‘ol mitch on tv roasting folks…yeah – this is why I don’t follow politics…definitely would be nice if they could work shit out – quickly…

    one thing that has stuck out to me by surfing all the news channels: we really do need to focus on bringing/subsidizing if neccessary key manufacturing sectors (pharmaceuticals) back in to the country…

  69. Greece announced a lockdown on Sunday, restricting movement from Monday morning with only a few exceptions, to combat the spread of coronavirus.

    Infected 695
    dead 17

  70. Early bird, you’re right…flattening the demand curve has been pointed out and its significant. Would have been smarter if during past month, we tripled supply of ICUs here in NY too.

  71. Thanks, Bob. I agree with most of that. My main complaint with him during this time is he doesn’t accept his own limitations. The doctors should be the ones running the press conferences and he should be there to back them up. That would clear up a lot of confusion. Of course, I accept that half the country is wired to hang him on anything, so they, via the press, are demanding him to speak almost every day, and he’s incapable of resisting the opportunity. It’s a toxic mix all around. I think we’d all be better served if we let the politicians step aside here like they (mostly) did in 2008.

    Fwiw, I don’t think any elected official in the US did a worse job than Cuomo (who I like) and DeBlasio (who I believe to be an imbecile). The amount of cases in NY may soon surpass those in china. Eventually it may surpass the entire world given how little heed was paid by the people. But I accept that this is an impossible situatiin that no one in a non-authoritarian government has been able to get right.

  72. we tripled supply of ICUs here in NY too

    I guess you’re trolling with this. You probably won’t think it’s so laughable if you end up in an ICU.

    I have a request: this is a stressful time. It might be good if we recognized that and took the vitriol down a notch. I found the link Bob posted yesterday useful – I didn’t know about the digestive problems as a potential early indicator. And while the source might have been problematic, what mattered was the information. As a progressive – actually more of a radical – I appreciate actual data from any source, if it is in fact data and not fabricated. There was no reason to believe that data was fabricated, and the response here was disproportionate. Not so to his other Trump talking-point comments, but if we can respond to specific posts instead of making generalized statements about posters, it’s a better way to interact. We wouldn’t have ended up in a stupid thread about Avenetti etc.

    Giana is another story. Those posts are not just ignorant, they are dangerous. The spread of misinformation has consequences. I have pity on Giana because if it is actually reub, he is 60+ and seriously at risk and possibly scared. But we shouldn’t allow irresponsible posts about how it’s a lot less lethal than the “flue.”

  73. Rama, I agree, and I have wanted to apologize for my spleen-draining rant of a few days ago. That was not, in fact, a result of the digestive article (as you say interesting possible piece of information, although who knows). I simply lost it from the stress of having to read his generic trolling. I love you guys and I love coming here, and he’s only one troll, but as a representative of the unapologetically brainwashed 43,2%, he makes me feel so hopeless right now.

    I will try to tone it down (or just keep it to myself).

  74. Knew Your Nicks:
    Greece announced a lockdown on Sunday, restricting movement from Monday morning with only a few exceptions, to combat the spread of coronavirus.

    Infected 695
    dead 17

    Sotiris Tsiodras (Greek doctor physician with specialty specific infectious diseases./On 1 February 2020, he was designated by the Ministry of Health as his spokesman for communications on the development of the coronavirus pandemic in Greece , as well as leading the pandemic response in the country)

    He estimated that based on scientific data around 8.000 to 10.000 persons have been infected by the corona virus in Greece.

    He also said characteristically that If we had a magic stick and we could stop one from the other at 2 metres for 2 weeks the spreading would stop.

  75. You don’t think McConnell and the Republicans would be cynical enough to put forth bills that they know the Dems won’t agree to, and then blame the Dems for being obstructionist?

    Nah, that would be too reprehensible even for them, right?

  76. Americans who had been to China must undergo screening and possibly be put in quarantine for 14 days.

    This didn’t actually happen.

  77. Look, I disagree with bobneptune on just about every issue but that’s all right. He’s in the minority here in terms of politics but he’s entitled to his beliefs and he’s not a troll.

    Reub is here to disrupt and to be an attention-seeking jackass, and he crosses the line into saying things that are offensive. I think he feigns his own stupidity for attention. He’s still posting under the fake woman name he had to invent after he was banned here for rape apologism. Which he’ll deny, but which happened.

    He’s the rare poster here that actually makes this place worse.

  78. First fines of 5000 euros for breaching quarantine by travellers.

    The first administrative fines fell on Sunday, on undisciplined travelers who, while required to be in mandatory quarantine for the purpose of preventing and stopping the spread of the new coronavirus in the country, ignored orders and were not where they had stated they would be quarantined.

    These are a total of 13 people who had returned from overseas and, as provided for in the decision, had stated in writing the address where they would stay throughout the 14-day quarantine.

    As officials at the General Secretariat for Civil Protection pointed out the checks were sampled and from Monday, systematic raids will take place throughout Greece.

  79. So, if we all are going to get it anyway, other then driving ourselves into an economic depression, – what are we really accomplishing?

    What a fucking humiliating tell that you haven’t paid attention to a word of what the public health experts are saying. I figured even the dumbest Trump chuds alive understood the logic of “flatten the curve.”

  80. Just for the record, as scary and bad as things are here now, I am getting some fairly reliable reports that things are returning to normal in China and other parts of Asia. These are not reports from incompetent or politically motivated media sources on either side of the aisle in the US or from Chinese news sources. This is straight from investors and companies about the status of factories and workers in China and other nearby areas. On any level, that’s good news both for the potential to control this, the world economy, and our own supply chain.

    I desperately needed some reliable good news and maybe this it. It’s at least glimmer of hope the world can turn this around.

  81. Giana is Reub. I called “her” out early when it was obvious she wasn’t a woman, and Mike K (who has access to posters IP addresses) called out Reub directly. There is no doubt.

    Rama, are you certain reub is 60? That is stunning. I always assumed, based on the intelligence of his posts and his general behavior, the reub was somewhere between 12 and
    16 years old.

  82. Today is a rough day for anyone trying to make a straight-faced argument that Trump knows what he’s doing.

    In case you missed it, he’s been tweeting all day about how less vulnerable populations need to get back to normal life soon, likely within a week or so.

    This would probably kill 1,000,000+, and eventually the economy would just get re-wrecked from everyone being sick all the time anyway, but at least President Big Boy might get a “markets rebound” headline or two out of it!

  83. Strat, my news from China matches yours. For example, at the company I worked at everyone is back at work except for two or three people who aren’t sick but are still quarantined from having traveled. There are still restrictions on gathering. For example, no one can go to the cafeteria, everyone eats apart and there are few face to face meetings and when meetings have to occur everyone sits at least two meters from each other.

  84. to which then – another 8 weeks maybe of keeping everyone in place?

    fucking trump, what an idiot: hey, next week i expect to see them bars and beaches full again…

    i hope everyone here is staying safe and healthy and their family is too…

  85. I have to admit GianaReub really fascinates me. Like does a flasher in a raincoat do it for shock value or does he think that the girls in the park are gonna be like Whoa I gotta get me some of that!

    GianaReub, I don’t want you banned. I want to know all about you,

  86. Rama, are you certain reub is 60? That is stunning. I always assumed, based on the intelligence of his posts and his general behavior, the reub was somewhere between 12 and
    16 years old.

    He talked a lot about going on cruises, so I made some assumptions. It is possible he is a kid and making that up, but that seems highly unlikely – I don’t think going on cruises would occur to my 15-year-old boy as a thing to reference. And he could be independently wealthy and retired at 45, but again, doesn’t seem likely given the references he’s made over time. So, almost certainly 60+, though by deduction, not statement.

  87. GianaReub, I don’t want you banned. I want to know all about you,

    I love you for that fetch :)

    I liked the more personable side of reub, loved hearing about those cruises he would take…giana has stated in the past that this is their original account – I mean i am from new york – so, yeah i generally doubt everything i read, see and hear…critical thinking to the max usually…

    it’s hard for me though to comprehend the unquenchable desire of some folks to continually fuck with others…

    I mean, you ain’t gotta kiss everyone’s ass like I tend to do, but, god damn – timing is a real thing…

    I’m not a big fan of us circle jerking one another for our shared “brilliant” thoughts (except milo, the tucker has a crazy high rational thought percentage)…it’s good to have a dissenting voice or two…but damn, this behavior is a bit beyond that…

    now is not the time for fucking with folks – not about this kind of shit…I gotta imagine mike and bc’s leash would be a little shorter than normal…

    it could be a good time to re-asseses your approach with the rest of us…otherwise – you may have to change that name again…

  88. In case you missed it, he’s been tweeting all day about how less vulnerable populations need to get back to normal life soon, likely within a week or so.

    He’s saying we need to reassess in a week or so. That makes perfect sense. Why shouldn’t we reassess periodically?

    Do you understand what’s in play if we don’t leave our houses for 4 months?

  89. here you go bob…looks like folks are heeding the lessons of one sir isaac newton…time to get the hell out of dodge: https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/highlands-islands-scotland-coronavirus-travel/index.html

    life is a funny thing…spent time on the phone speaking with loved ones – a lot of concern and frustration…and, a whole lot of boredom and the feeling of isolation…

    i’m getting better at being a good listener and just listening and providing whatever words i can to try to “help”…

    i know – me whining, even more than i normally do, is the last thing anyone wants to read – i long for boredom and isolation…i have for most of my life, and yet – that is decidedly not the path i’ve followed…

    i can think of a few nice places (monterey mostly) i wouldn’t mind bunkering down in…it’s been rainy out here the last week or so…hopefully a little sunshine and warmth will roll through the area soon…

  90. just saw this which made me smile:

    Don’t think of me as an extreme lifelong introvert.

    Think of me as a highly qualified quarantine consultant.

  91. He’s saying we need to reassess in a week or so. That makes perfect sense. Why shouldn’t we reassess periodically?

    Do you understand what’s in play if we don’t leave our houses for 4 months?

    We have seen no evidence whatsoever that the curve has been meaningfully, or even at all, bent. It’s absurdly premature to be talking about a timetable at this point, and especially one that the President sure seems intent on making as aggressive as possible.

    I’ve mentioned before that both of my parents work in healthcare–they think it’s insane to be talking about sending anyone back to work in a week. The hospitals are still getting more crowded by the day at this point, not less. Everyone in healthcare found Trump’s rants from this morning incredibly demoralizing.

    Perhaps you’re being very, very generous and interpreting his comments to mean he’ll merely reevaluate the situation every few weeks, despite all of the reporting that has come out today to the contrary (https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/tensions-brewing-inside-white-house-over-economic-consequences-coronavirus-response-n1166671, https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/23/us/politics/trump-coronavirus-restrictions.html?action=click&module=Spotlight&pgtype=Homepage, https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-signals-growing-weariness-with-social-distancing-and-other-steps-advocated-by-health-officials/2020/03/23/0920ea0a-6cfc-11ea-a3ec-70d7479d83f0_story.html). I simply do not have the same level of faith in Donald Trump, but I guess we’ll see.

  92. I guess it is probably extra fucked up to be a troll during a crisis, so I banned GianaDani.

  93. tough situation…there’s the virus timer, and, there’s the economy timer…they both need to be addressed; however, controlling the virus must take precedence…

    i can’t imagine how challenging it must be for those folks whom live week to week…there are a lot of them too…add to that the weight of caring for others…man, there but for the grace of god go i…

    devastating impact on lives that will never even be touched by the virus itself…

  94. thanks bc…politics is one thing – but, too many, shit – all of us pretty much have too much at stake right now to take a little “nudging” well…

  95. TNFH, I think it was absurd for the CDC to cancel the global economy for 8 weeks. What if a vaccine is developed by mid April but we already canceled June? There’s a limit to how far out you can project with accuracy and we blew past it. Hunker down for two weeks and reassess the situation then is absolutely the right call. It doesn’t mean you send everyone back to work. It means you consider it with all the new information from the previous two weeks.

    It may well be that we have to quarantine the vulnerable and let the strong carry on while we make sure the weak are taken care of. It’s a possibility that needs to be considered. This isn’t about the stock market. Things like the end of the American economy, reducing our currency to toilet paper, and World War 3 (this time, with nukes) are going to start becoming possible the longer we all stay inside.

  96. Do you understand what’s in play if we don’t leave our houses for 4 months?

    i know it’s a super broad question, so many different segments of the economy – what’s your sense on how long of a “shut-down” versus how long it might take for some different segments of the economy to rebound/recover…

    it seems this situation is at least another 8 to 10 weeks or so from hopefully stabilizing…will that be too long a period for most small businesses to survive?

    definitely will need a plan at some point for getting all the unemployed (think i saw we’re at 30% right now) back to work…

  97. ding dong the witch is dead

    it seems this situation is at least another 8 to 10 weeks or so from hopefully stabilizing…will that be too long a period for most small businesses to survive?

    Yes. This is going to be a depression, and there is nothing we can do about it except break quarantine and watch millions (upon millions, upon millions) die around the globe.

  98. **What if a vaccine is developed by mid April but we already canceled June?**

    From what I’ve read and heard from experts in the field, it will take 14 months minimum for a vaccine to be available. Have you read otherwise?

  99. Hubert, first of all there’s no safe way to “develop” a vaccine by April. Even if you expedite the testing process as much as possible it would be wildly irresponsible to allow for general population use of a vaccine on that timetable.

    It may well be that we have to quarantine the vulnerable and let the strong carry on while we make sure the weak are taken care of.

    The problem is…this is just not how social distancing works. How are you going to prevent any and all interactions between these two groups during this time? My literal next door neighbor (and this is an East Village walkup, so we’re literally talking about, like, six inches between doors) is a 60+ year old with heath issues.

    What are you going to do about the fact that a lot of “the strong” will still need hospitalization if infected?

    Do you really think the economy will come roaring back when countless numbers of the allegedly invulnerable people are going to be getting sick every single day?

    This is a recipe for hospitals being overwhelmed and being forced to make the kinds of tragic prioritization decisions we saw/are still seeing in Italy.

  100. i think the only person on earth who believes a readily available vaccine would be ready by mid-april is our fearless leader…anyone else based in reality knows it is off in the distance…

  101. This is going to be a depression

    If our goal is merely to stop the spread of coronavirus, yes. Following the CDC guidelines will likely lead to another Depression. As for your question, Geo, I think most small businesses are going to have a hard time surviving as soon as the rent is due this month.

    But knowing what we do about how ~98% of us can survive this thing after 10-12 grueling days, and that we can avoid a depression if we go back to work at some point, we’re going to have to seriously consider if the cure is worse than the disease.

  102. pepper:
    i think the only person on earth who believes a readily available vaccine would be ready by mid-april is our fearless leader…anyone else based in reality knows it is off in the distance…

    I agree, but I still think the 8 week call was overreaching. A lot can change after two weeks.

  103. there is nothing we can do about it except break quarantine

    no good answers, but, isn’t leaving the stores (i’m about to go to target in the next day or two) open breaking quarantine already…

    my sister told me where she lives the grocery store will only allow so many patrons in at time and will not allow them to bring any of their own bags…still, when i read china coordinated home deliveries of supplies – that made a heck of a lot of sense…

  104. This is a recipe for hospitals being overwhelmed and being forced to make the kinds of tragic prioritization decisions we saw/are still seeing in Italy.

    I didn’t say (and neither did Trump) that the whole world should go back to work in two weeks.

    How many tests do we have? At what rate are we producing them? How overtaxed are our hospitals? We don’t know what the answer to these questions will be in two weeks. It is blindingly obvious that you can’t project that information very far out, so frequent reassessment and adjustment is the right call.

  105. I agree, but I still think the 8 week call was overreaching. A lot can change after two weeks.

    What do you think is going to change about this situation in 2 weeks?

  106. WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF. AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!

    Yeah, I don’t know why we just don’t see the nuance that Trump is using with this stuff. Geez, guys.

  107. How many tests do we have? At what rate are we producing them? How overtaxed are our hospitals?

    ^ Just some of the hard to project numbers two weeks from now.

    Our current policy is (rightly) based on the Imperial College report which largely uses Italy as its baseline. What if, after two weeks, our numbers look different than Italy’s? Shouldn’t that alter our guidelines?

    The impact of Plaquenil is another important consideration to monitor. It seems to be keeping people from needing intensive care, which would greatly reduce the toll on our hospitals.

    And frankly, we have to keep an eye on civil unrest in what’s already a fractured country. The reaction of healthy people being told to stay home while their company goes belly up or they get laid off is something that someone needs to consider.

  108. If you read the reporting from today, Trump is not merely being pushed in the direction of reevaluating the situation every few weeks. That would not be newsworthy, and he would not be obsessively tweeting about the idea.

    He is being pushed into sending people back to work prematurely, plain and simple, and the idea is appealing strongly to him.

    Just to give you an indication of how ridiculous it is to even be talking about this right now:

    Kit Delgado
    @kit_delgadoMD
    ·
    26m
    Spoke to an NYC ER doctor colleague today who said their ER is intubating 1-2 patients *per hour*. That’s a 12 to 24 new ICU admissions requiring ventilators per day. NYC hospitals about to hit max capacity. Other cities/hospitals must act now to be ready #CoronavirusOutbreak

    We haven’t hit the peak of this thing in any part of the country.

  109. What do you think is going to change about this situation in 2 weeks?

    ummm, that things are about to get soooo much worse…

    we’re going to have to seriously consider if the cure is worse than the disease.

    that’s a very sobering thought…makes me think of the job that ed norton had in the movie fight club…

  110. I just opened this email from a bar on Bowery:

    “ As with most of our nightlife/hospitality community, we are closed until further notice due to COVID-19. This has left our entire staff (over 30 employees) without a job. Rumors of government aid and unemployment for all are not currently a reality; the unemployment website keeps crashing and getting through on the phone is an impossibility, which leaves countless members of our amazing team unable to apply. Many of our bartenders, DJs, and barbacks live week to week, relying on this income for basic necessities for themselves and their families.”

    This is gonna get ugly fast if we already can’t take care of people who aren’t,t getting paychecks

  111. It was pretty clear that our great American experiment jumped the shark the day we elected Donald Trump. I Figured I’d be able to laugh at our decline but that was before I realized that now I’m going to die poor

  112. Do you really think the economy will come roaring back when countless numbers of the allegedly invulnerable people are going to be getting sick every single day?

    It’s not about roaring back (it won’t). You send people to work so it doesn’t plunge deeper. Recessions are normal. Painful, but normal. A depression will fuck us up much worse than this virus. You send people back to work to avoid that. Not for some stupid V shape recovery. That ship has sailed.

  113. Hubert, I think the point you’re missing is we really have only two choices: we can crash the economy and save lives now, or we can crash the economy later while millions die that otherwise didn’t have to. There does not seem to be much of a middle ground except to people who don’t understand what an exponential curve is. If the pandemic gets going with all engines belching, it’s going to be utter and absolute chaos, economically as well as medically.

    I recognize that it’s really, really hard to decide to make choices and take actions that are ultimately hugely damaging. But the alternative, not making those choices and letting things happen to us, would be hugely worse.

  114. I think that “assessment” is a daily issue…if the major element is assessing testing feedback to see where we are on the “curve”…it is not clear how useful the data is right now…I mean the ratios of infected to tested vary widely and it seems that it is correlated to how densely populated the areas are and/or what area of a state is being tested..I am not even sure how helpful the testing data is right now…appears that Washington state/Illinois and NY have made the biggest leaps in a week in terms of volume of tests while other states with smaller volumes have a wide disparity in their ratios which makes no sense….I haven’t heard any commentary on how meaningful the data is to date and if it isn’t when will it be…because only at that point can informed decisions be made…

  115. It’s not about roaring back (it won’t). You send people to work so it doesn’t plunge deeper. Recessions are normal. Painful, but normal. A depression will fuck us up much worse than this virus. You send people back to work to avoid that. Not for some stupid V shape recovery. That ship has sailed.

    I think you’re drastically underrating the economic effects of sending people back to work, only to see scores of them have to take time off immediately with plenty of those cases resulting in hospitalization and possibly death.

    Combine that phenomenon with vulnerable people dying left and right (again, there is no such thing as “social-distancing-but-only-for-some-people”) and I don’t think your economic outlook is much rosier than the current one, and you’ve needlessly let a bunch of people suffer and die in the process.

    If you want to talk about this after we’ve established the ability to test people at an ROK scale that’s a different story, but right now we are truly in the dark when it comes to who is healthy.

  116. Our current policy is (rightly) based on the Imperial College report which largely uses Italy as its baseline.

    I would be surprised if our numbers look like Italy’s.

    Unquestionably things are going to get worse in the US before they get better. We desperately need those military hospital ships in NY ASAP, more medical equipment etc… But imo there’s something unique going on in Italy that we don’t quite understand yet that explains the number of critical cases and deaths over and above a shortage of hospital beds, ICU equipment etc….

    They talk about the age of the population (older than average) and that a LOT of them are smokers, but I also heard that they’ve had bouts of TB via immigration in some of the areas that have been hardest hit (can’t vouch for that). I suspect there are several factors contributing to it over and above the hospital issue. It may even be genetics. Italy is the worst case scenario, but imho (not being an expert on any of this), not a good baseline expectation. It’s what you try to prepare for.

  117. I should add that I’m aware severe recessions/depressions can come with a hefty body count as well, and that’s why the current strategy only makes sense if both the feds and local governments take aggressive measures to take care of people. There is no time for silly deficit fear-mongering–print the damn money and send it.

  118. There is no time for silly deficit fear-mongering–print the damn money and send it.

    I’m a “hard money” libertarian that hates our current monetary system. I have been screaming about the Fed, deficits, debt, and the banking system for decades. The idiots won that political battle decades ago and now we are screwed. That ship has sailed. We are standing at the abyss. We should unquestionably print the money and get it to people and small businesses and do everything possible to save the financial system. We can worry about replacing this abortion of a system some day when competent people are in charge and hogwash is not being taught in our universities.

  119. Welp, we can put to bed the idea that Trump is merely “reevaluating” every two weeks: https://apnews.com/5dd6b30e03542b435e2716e3e3a483e4

    You need to read the whole thing to grasp the utter unfitness of this man, but the gist is provided right at the top:

    Now, as the coronavirus crisis threatens his presidency, and upends his campaign for reelection, Trump is rapidly losing patience with the medical professionals who have made the case day after day that the only way to prevent a catastrophic loss of life is to essentially shut down the country — to minimize transmission and “flatten the curve” so hospitals aren’t overwhelmed with critical patients.

    The president also has been furious that his efforts to halt the harrowing drop in the stock market have so far proven ineffective. He has been calling friends and economists at all hours and berated aides and reporters who try to persuade him to recognize the severity of the outbreak.

    Beyond the crisis, he has been agitated that he can’t run the campaign he wants against Democrat Joe Biden, and he has used daily, hour-long briefings as near proxies for his campaign rallies, guaranteed to attract attention and to maintain the backing of his fervent political case.

    This account is based on interviews with a dozen White House aides, former administration officials and Republicans close to the White House granted anonymity to discuss private conversations.

    Starting to think we shouldn’t have taken the worst person in the country and made him President but hey that’s just me.

  120. The idiots won that political battle decades ago and now we are screwed. That ship has sailed. We are standing at the abyss.

    Uh-huh, sure. This country is going to go to hell due to the deficit any day now. Just you wait. It’s right around the corner.

    Ironically, turns out what actually might send it to hell is the Pete Peterson deficit-scold mumbo jumbo to which so many politicians in both parties (but weirdly enough, much more so the Democrats) adhere.

  121. Hubert, I think the point you’re missing is we really have only two choices: we can crash the economy and save lives now, or we can crash the economy later while millions die that otherwise didn’t have to.

    I don’t agree. But your choice of words is vague. What does “crash the economy” mean? Plunge into recession or depression? Recession is inevitable but a depression is by no means assured. IMHO, that’s an avoidable outcome that is worse than the virus.

  122. Uh-huh, sure. This country is going to go to hell due to the deficit any day now. Just you wait. It’s right around the corner.

    You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our monetary system, banking system, the flaws with fiat money, the history and politics of how we wound up with this monetary system etc.. So please do us all a favor and just STFU on this one subject. I have no problem with your politics and only rarely get annoyed with your baskteball opinions , but you don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to money, banking and the Fed. Please put a cork in it and trash Trump and Frank all you want.

  123. That article was indeed terrifying but to be fair it wasn’t sourced or supported with quotes at all. Having said that, I believe it.

    It made a particular point I hadn’t considered (and again, they projected it, but it’s probably true):

    Trump is devastated that he can’t hold rallies. He sees these pressers (which should be for the doctors) as his only spotlight.

  124. worse than the virus

    Let’s be a little more nose about what “the virus” means in this context. This plan essentially unleashes it on the general population (once again, it’s a complete fantasy to think you can isolate some people while having everyone else go about their daily lives).

    Let’s say, conservatively, 80% of the population gets the virus in this scenario. That’s about 262 million people.

    The worldwide death rate stands at about 4% as of now, so let’s say optimistically American wealth/resources etc. get that to 1%.

    That’s 2.62 million deaths. Yes, a lot of them would’ve sadly happened anyway. But a huge number would be prevented by maintaining social distancing for as long as is necessary–probably a number in the millions.

  125. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our monetary system, banking system, the flaws with fiat money, the history and politics of how we wound up with this monetary system etc.. So please do us all a favor and just STFU on this one subject. I have no problem with your politics and only rarely get annoyed with your baskteball opinions , but you don’t know what you are talking about when it comes to money, banking and the Fed. Please put a cork in it and trash Trump and Frank all you want.

    You’ve convinced me, the deficit apocalypse is right around the corner! China is going to invade to collect on its credit! We’re a week away from being Zimbabwe! Quick, stop letting poor people live with any shred of dignity!

  126. That article was indeed terrifying but to be fair it wasn’t sourced or supported with quotes at all. Having said that, I believe it.

    It literally said:

    This account is based on interviews with a dozen White House aides, former administration officials and Republicans close to the White House granted anonymity to discuss private conversations.

  127. well…according to Prez..unless you put names next to those citations/quotes…it is fake news…

  128. Those hacks at Associated Press just make shit up. Yeah, I’m sure that’s how they operate.

    Come on now.

  129. I think you’re drastically underrating the economic effects of sending people back to work, only to see scores of them have to take time off immediately with plenty of those cases resulting in hospitalization and possibly death.

    I’m not. The math is pretty simple: the economic impact of somewhere between 40-80% of the work force getting sick and missing 2 weeks is substantially less than the economic impact of 100% of people missing work for for two months.

    Admittedly this relies on the current data in which the hospitalization and death rates of low risk people being low remains constant. And it also doesn’t consider that it gives the virus millions of chances to mutate into something more devastating. Again, I’m not saying everyone should go back to work. I know there are risks. We have to wait and reassess.

  130. well we operated under that assumption forever…but amazingly in the last three years it is all made up!

  131. JK47: Those hacks at Associated Press just make shit up. Yeah, I’m sure that’s how they operate.

    Come on now.

    It was presented as an editorial analysis, not a news story.

    I’m just saying no one in the story went on record, even anonymously, is all. That has to be noted, I think.

  132. You’ve convinced me, the deficit apocalypse is right around the corner! China is going to invade to collect on its credit! We’re a week away from being Zimbabwe! Quick, stop letting poor people live with any shred of dignity!

    I wish for once you would actually read something I say and try to understand it before proving what a moron you are.

    You are such an asshole, I may ask Brian to bar me just so I am never tempted to associate or converse with someone like you anymore. You are a clueless dimwit that doesn’t even understand what I am talking about, but you have to comment and start trouble. You are a troll asshole.

  133. public service announcement…I have been doing a bunch of cooking since i am stuck at home…I was working with dry red kidney beans and was using a slow cooker…and no matter how long I cooked them they were still hard….I was looking up on the “internet” what I was doing wrong and found out that red kidney beans have some toxin in them that unless you get the temp to 180 degrees…it doesn’t break down the toxin and you can get really ill…digestive stuff…nausea…so, anyone trying to make some Indian kidney bean currie or other dishes…like me…and using dry kidney beans…make sure you boil those things…

  134. Josh Dawsey
    @jdawsey1
    “America will soon be open for business,” Trump says. “Very soon.” He adds “a lot sooner” than three or four months, Trump says. “We can’t let the cure be worse than the problem.”

    Good lesson for anyone who ever defends Trump or says he was misunderstood or taken out of context or whatever: he almost always makes sure to clarify and embarrass you.

  135. doesn’t that dais fill y’all with confidence and hope?

    Look at how unsettled Brix is, as she knows that if she’s gone, there’s nobody left.

    Think about the fact that there is a renowned medical expert who corrected Trump on a few things, and Trump’s response is not to stop doing the things he’s corrected on, but to get rid of the renowned medical expert. It’s so bonkers.

  136. You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our monetary system, banking system, the flaws with fiat money, the history and politics of how we wound up with this monetary system etc.. So please do us all a favor and just STFU on this one subject.

    Strat, I meditated on Carl Menger. I STUDIED Carl Menger. Carl Menger was a friend of mine.

    Strat, you’re no Carl Menger.

  137. Trump is such a coward. “Mr President, Rand Paul tested himself without symptoms and tested positive. If he hadn’t , he’d be spreading the virus all over the Senate. So why should only people with symptoms be tested?l”

    “Uh Deborah, would you answer that?”

  138. You know…. I always defend the idea, not the person who came up with it. I do think we need to consider restarting the economy, but that’s bc I think a depression is possible. This clown is just trying to rally the stock market.

    That reporter nailed it, btw: if we’re not going to shut down more than 2 weeks, why $2 trillion?

  139. TNFH you’re a little less on point than usual today. I really don’t think the 10 year olds who are being raised by their grandparents are going to be called upon to go to work and save the economy.

    Despite how many times you’ve said it isn’t, selective quarantine is extremely feasible and in fact very simple. It’s just how like during war time only certain people go to war. The gov’t draws a line based on your risk factors. If you’re on one side you go to work. If you’re on the other side you stay home. Many of us who go to work will get sick. Few, if any, of us will require hospitalization bc the rate of hospitalization, just like the death rate, is extremely low amongst a large portion of the population.

    Doctors are only focused on the coronavirus, as they should be. Someone needs to look beyond it. I don’t think Trump is doing it for the right reason (he clearly spoke tonight bc the market was down 3% on a day the Fed announced unlimited QE), but it is right to be thinking beyond the virus.

    If we’re stuck inside for 4 months eventually the only people with jobs will be doctors, nurses, and government workers. And most of them will quit bc their salaries won’t be able to buy a loaf of bread. I’m obviously exaggerating a bit when I say that, but not when I say this: the suicide rate in an America with 30-40% unemployment is going to dwarf every scientist’s worst case scenario for the coronavirus.

  140. I really don’t think the 10 year olds who are being raised by their grandparents are going to be called upon to go to work and save the economy.

    I said:

    school and work

    Despite how many times you’ve said it isn’t, selective quarantine is extremely feasible and in fact very simple. It’s just how like during war time only certain people go to war. The gov’t draws a line based on your risk factors. If you’re on one side you go to work.

    Dude. Come on. Foreign/non-state actor armies are not viruses. What they do to the people selected to go to war is not contagious. Don’t get me wrong–war is hell and immoral in all kinds of ways, but it ain’t analogous to a virus that damn near ensnares anyone who gets within six feet of it.

    ’m obviously exaggerating a bit when I say that, but not when I say this: the suicide rate in an America with 30-40% unemployment is going to dwarf every scientist’s worst case scenario for the coronavirus.

    The Imperial College report said the “isolate the vulnerable but let the invulnerable live” strategy comes with about 1,000,000 surplus deaths.

  141. It’s not like we can’t implement actual solutions to deal with a long-term situation. From price controls to direct financial support, all of this is actually possible. Will things still suffer long term damage? Yes. Can we substantially alleviate a lot of that? Yes. The laws are already on the books. We did similar things during WWII and it’s didn’t destroy the economy. We can handle it, it’s just that the people in charge don’t want to. Our economic system is human created, not some outgrowth of natural law. We can change the rules temporarily to stave off disaster. We’ve done it before.

  142. People might not be super psyched to go to work once the shit hits the fan and the bodies start piling up. Especially considering this disease seems to hit younger people harder than initially advertised.

  143. We can change the rules temporarily to stave off disaster. We’ve done it before.

    “Fuck off, peasant.” – Mitch McConnell

  144. I said:

    school and work

    Ok, well no one said we need to send kids back to school. School is not essential to the economy. Kids should stay home.

    Come on. Foreign/non-state actor armies are not viruses. What they do to the people selected to go to war is not contagious. Don’t get me wrong–war is hell and immoral in all kinds of ways, but it ain’t analogous to a virus that damn near ensnares anyone who gets within six feet of it.

    I hear you, but you’re missing the point.

    When we go to war, we select people based on their viability. We don’t take women and children, for instance, or men who can’t run a 1/4 mile without getting winded. Not everyone goes to war.

    Likewise, not everyone will go back to work. If you have asthma, lung issues, lupus, are above 60… Whatever. You draw a line. On one side, you need to stay home. On the other, go to work and keep the economy floating. We have enough people in this country who can get sick for two weeks and not go to the hospital over it. No matter which week’s numbers you use, getting sick doesn’t mean hospitalization. The vast majority can recover from this at home.

    The Imperial College report said the “isolate the vulnerable but let the invulnerable live” strategy comes with about 1,000,000 surplus deaths.

    I’d like to see that citation. I am fairly certain they did not run a scenario in which we first quarantine everyone for two weeks and then execute the strategy. I thought it was an either/or.

  145. Few, if any, of us will require hospitalization bc the rate of hospitalization, just like the death rate, is extremely low amongst a large portion of the population.

    Hubert, why won’t you read and learn? Again, I give you this. Give it a full read. Really.

    https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56

    If 5% of your cases require intensive care and you can’t provide it, most of those people die. As simple as that.

    What happens if you have a heart attack but the ambulance takes 50 minutes to come instead of 8 (too many coronavirus cases) and once you arrive, there’s no ICU and no doctor available? You die.

    If the coronavirus is left to spread, the US healthcare system will collapse, and the deaths will be in the millions, maybe more than 10 million.

    That’s what the experts say will happen in your scenario. I ain’t saying that it wouldn’t be super-duper better if we could get the economy up and running asap. And I think we should indeed be looking at every possible way to keep things from completely shit-tanking. But I do think you’re living in a (dangerous) dreamland if you think we can just ‘send a whole lot of us back to work’ and not make things much worse — death-toll and economically.

    Like Grocer said, there are many innovative solutions we could be pursuing to lessen the damage. But I’m not seeing any innovative thinking on that (well, the occasional smart editorial here and there that are studiously ignored).

  146. I just forced my wife to watch Mulholland Drive with me based on the say-so of some posters here. Let’s just say that thanks to you f-in’ a-holes I ain’t gettin’ any tonight.

    And furthermore, you are a stank bunch of misogynist fucks. “Oh, THAT’S why they liked it!” (ps i forgive u)

  147. Hubert: Ok, well no one said we need to send kids back to school. School is not essential to the economy. Kids should stay home.

    Case in point: Sure, all of my mom teachers can go back to work if their kids are not in school. Especially the single moms. Right.

    I rest my case.

  148. We did similar things during WWII and it’s didn’t destroy the economy.

    That’s because we won the war! That’s how you end a depression: global warfare. And at the end, the victor is rich from the spoils and its economy is fixed.

  149. I just forced my wife to watch Mulholland Drive with me based on the say-so of some posters here. Let’s just say that thanks to you f-in’ a-holes I ain’t gettin’ any tonight.

    Yeah dude you should have asked us about whether it were suitable for date night, being that it’s (maybe) about a nightmarish wish-fulfillment fantasy by a scorned ex-lover before she kills herself in a jealous, spiteful rage

  150. Z-man:

    Case in point: Sure, all of my mom teachers can go back to work if their kids are not in school. Especially the single moms. Right.

    I rest my case.

    You might want to reopen your case. I don’t think we’re going to cancel the global economy bc Karen can’t find a sitter.

  151. Hubert: That’s because we won the war! That’s how you end a depression: global warfare. And at the end, the victor is rich from the spoiled and its economy is fixed.

    Maybe we should just let a murderous psychopath disguised as a take charge kind of guy take over…I mean, whose economy recovered faster than Germany’s in the 1930’s?!

  152. Hubert: You might want to reopen your case. I don’t think we’re going to cancel the global economy bc Karen can’t find a sitter.

    I truly feel sorry for you, it must be tough being so dumb.

  153. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Yeah dude you should have asked us about whether it were suitable for date night, being that it’s (maybe) about a nightmarish wish-fulfillment fantasy by a scorned ex-lover before she kills herself in a jealous, spiteful rage

    Not that far off from my marriage, but I digress…

  154. Once was enough for my wife, too. But I’m already chafing from the quarantine conjugality, so sorry, bud.

    ; )

    Hubert, I generally like you, wish I had listened to your advice about stock risk, but stay in yr lane my dude

  155. So, anyone think that Calipari might agree to coach the Knicks?
    :-)

    Sorry, couldn’t resist. Anyways, I saw someone linked an article about the different responses to the crisis in Kentucky vs. Tennessee. I already had seen that one, and it is a sobering one for us here in the Volunteer State.

    Both of my sons are now out of work for the next two months (Five Guys), though my oldest’s college has switched to online so he’s still busy with that. My wife’s last day for awhile will be tomorrow. She’ll be one of 5/100 in the office for one last day. Most restaurants now closed.

    So, Knoxville is finally taking it seriously. IDK about the rest of the state.

  156. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Once was enough for my wife, too. But I’m already chafing from the quarantine conjugality, so sorry, bud.

    After nearly 30 years of “blissful” marriage, the desire for 6 feet of social distancing is measured vertically…

  157. The “partial quarantine” idea is a lot like Phil Jackson’s “two-tiered” approach to team building. You do a half-assed job of “win now” and a half-assed job of “rebuild” and suck at both.

    The economy isn’t going to be humming along when there are hundreds of thousands of people dying, horrifying scenes of suffering, an overwhelmed health care system and an overall feeling of terror. Trump is clearly ignoring the medical professionals and listening to his idiot son-in-law and I simply do not believe there is a coherent plan in place.

  158. Yeah, I love Mulholland Drive, but not as a “date” movie. My wife still hasn’t watched it, though I’ve been slowly getting her to appreciate Lynch through Twin Peaks, Blue Velvet, and recently What Did Jack Do?

  159. Raven:
    It’s funny, nature really does abhore a vacuum. We get rid of GianaDani, and here come Hubert.

    Dude, you have a lot of balls to say this considering how stupid what you just did was.

    You posted Pueyo’s article and told me to read it, but you obviously didn’t finish it, you just glanced at a few of the bold quotes.

    Why don’t you go *finish* the article you told me to read. I read it when it came out a week ago. Spoiler alert: it’s my argument, dipshit.

    The Hammer = quarantine for weeks
    The Dance = a dance of measures between getting our lives back on track and spreading the disease, one of economy vs. healthcare.

    Jesus, man. You’ve called out two people in two days who you don’t have the capacity to hang with. I know you’re trying to endear yourself to the pack by fighting with the unpopular kids, but maybe pick fights with one of the mental midgets like Z Man or reub instead.

    And for fuck’s sake man, finish an article before you tell someone to read it. Christ almighty, you’re one thick little chucklefuck.

  160. The economy isn’t going to be humming along when there are hundreds of thousands of people dying, horrifying scenes of suffering, an overwhelmed health care system and an overall feeling of terror.

    You’re right, JK.

    This isn’t about humming along. Maybe you’re conflatung my argument with whatever Trump is proposing and railing against that. That’s understandable. But I’m not making Trump’s argument. I’m not trying to prop up the stock market for a few months.

    This is about stopping the plunge of the economy (the market is not the economy). Sorry, but I don’t think you or any one arguing against me truly understands how much worse it will get if we all stay home for months instead of weeks. You’ve been reading the health articles. I’m on the phone with the economists (this is my lane, Jowles). There needs to be a world we want to live in when the virus subsides, and you’re all underestimating how much months of these draconian measures will impact that.

  161. By the way, “dipshit” made an appearance on Curb last night. Just throwing that out there. I think maybe Larry’s a lurker.

  162. Oh,

    Hubert: but maybe pick fights with one of the mental midgets like Z Man or reub instead.

    Don’t sweat it Raven, these are the rantings of a deeply insecure blowhard who is desperate for validation. He’ll say anything to try to appear more intelligent than the crowd, and will never admit fault no matter how indefensible his positions.

    PS who’s more aligned with reub’s positions, Hubert or me?

  163. Doctor here. Internal Med. I intubated my first crashing Covid patient on Sunday. I’m in a small community hospital in Cortland New York. I’m from queens originally. All my colleagues in nyc are telling me horror stories. Now it’s starting here. We feel unprotected and unprepared for this pandemic. I’m very scared and concerned. Please stay home. I hope the president comes to his senses and extends this for another 4-6 weeks minimum. Lots of lives are at stake. I believe the numbers are manipulated right now because nationally we still aren’t testing enough. Lots of older people are probably Dnr/dni and dying of this without getting tested or an autopsy after death. Scary times. Stay safe guys. I hope life returns to normal soon, but I’m not optimistic.

  164. a deeply insecure blowhard who is desperate for validation.

    Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

    (I know you’re really slow, dude, but FYI… People who are desperate for validation don’t hold the line on beliefs they know are unlikely to be accepted. They behave like you and Raven.)

  165. llcoolbp:
    Doctor here. Internal Med. I intubated my first crashing Covidpatient on Sunday. I’m in a small community hospital in Cortland New York. I’m from queens originally. All my colleagues in nyc are telling me horror stories. Now it’s starting here. We feel unprotected and unprepared for this pandemic. I’m very scared and concerned. Please stay home. I hope the president comes to his senses and extends this for another 4-6 weeks minimum. Lots of lives are at stake. I believe the numbers are manipulated right now because nationally we still aren’t testing enough. Lots of older people are probably Dnr/dni and dying of this without getting tested or an autopsy after death. Scary times. Stay safe guys. I hope life returns to normal soon, but I’m not optimistic.

    Thanks, llcoolbp. Doubt the it will do much to change the mind of mouthbreathers like Hubert but much appreciated.

    Hubert: see above re: Yiddish proverb. Maybe we should start calling you reubert

  166. I mean “The Hammer And The Dance” is all well and good but we’re not really doing The Hammer, we’re doing kind of a half-assed version of it and we started too late. As far as “The Dance” part, well, that takes a lot of competence, bureaucratic skill, foresight… does that sound like the sort of area where Trump and senior adviser Jared Kushner are going to excel? These guys don’t know how to pull something like that off. They’re real estate grifters. And they think they’re real fucking smart and don’t need to listen to experts. I really strongly don’t trust those guys to pull off “The Dance” to be brutally fucking honest.

    They should avoid getting cute and just do whatever the fuck the medical professionals say. But they won’t. As much as I hate those corrupt ignoramus fucks I wish them luck. I hope it works out. Probably won’t but here’s to hoping.

  167. Can we just tell Joe Biden and Trump to fuck off and name Dr Birx President by acclimation????? There are people in this country better qualified for the job than those two.

  168. Last week I violate a direct order from my superiors because it put my colleagues’ and their families lives at risk. Hopefully state governors will do the same when Trump makes a colossally dumb decree that people should go back to work against the advice of infectious disease experts. Hubert et. al. have no fucking idea what the long-term economic implications will be either way. But we definitely have an idea what the mortality and morbidity implications are.

    Trump’s words and actions in dealing with this crisis are far more deserving of impeachment and removal from office than the Ukraine stuff. This is somewhere between criminal negligence and homicide.

  169. As long as everyone has food in their belly and internet and electricity opinions will be everywhere. That’s all you need to know. You’ll know when that stops.

  170. I would agree, JK, that our current government is extremely unlikely to pull this off. I don’t think our president is capable of executing any strategy that requires 2-4 weeks of commitment.

    But it does seem like you combined my argument with his. Trump’s position is “I need to get stocks up before the election.” I’m talking about avoiding 1929.

    And yes, you’re right: we have not yet deployed an effective hammer. I said that needs to happen first.

    I respectfully believe far too many of you greatly underestimate the possibility that the cure is a flood that will drown many of us. That is all. The doctors are just trying to stop the virus. They’re not supposed to think of the economic impact.

  171. Yeah, well you need a balance, and “go back to work after a half-assed quarantine for two weeks” doesn’t seem like the right balance. That seems to be erring pretty far on the side of not doing enough. And I know that’s not what you’re advocating and I wish I could go live in your counterfactual world but I exist on this timeline, the one where Jared fucking Kushner is making important decisions.

  172. Who knew that being called a thick little chucklefuck could make me feel so warm all over. I guess it is indeed all about context.

    Llcoolbp — i grew up in your area. Being in the pandepicenter now (well fine, NYS has taken that over, everything’s a competition…), I’ve been really getting into the beauty of spring. Hummingbirds, forsythias, daffodils. Revel in them, assuming you get outside before dark. If you don’t, get a lunchtime walk.

  173. Our economic system is human created, not some outgrowth of natural law. We can change the rules temporarily to stave off disaster.

    well said grocer, really well said…I wish I had more faith in the folks who are responsible for seeing us through these tough times…seems like we’re continually behind the curve…

    hope life is moving along safely for you…hope your sewing gang are all doing well :)

  174. JK47:
    I mean “The Hammer And The Dance” is all well and good but we’re not really doing The Hammer, we’re doing kind of a half-assed version of it and we started too late. As far as “The Dance” part, well, that takes a lot of competence, bureaucratic skill, foresight… does that sound like the sort of area where Trump and senior adviser Jared Kushner are going to excel? These guys don’t know how to pull something like that off. They’re real estate grifters. And they think they’re real fucking smart and don’t need to listen to experts. I really strongly don’t trust those guys to pull off “The Dance” to be brutally fucking honest.

    They should avoid getting cute and just do whatever the fuck the medical professionals say. But they won’t. As much as I hate those corrupt ignoramus fucks I wish them luck. I hope it works out. Probably won’t but here’s to hoping.

    That’s exactly the problem, also in Italy. In time of crisis you have to be able to think long term as a politician, and it means also sacrificing the now for the sake of the future, and also sacrifice popular consensus. To do the hammer and the dance, for example, you really have to do it, and it means taking a strong control over institutions for a long period of time, like in some kind of sanitarian dictatorship, it’s not easy at all.
    I’m afraid also Italian effort is half assed and it will lead to a soft hammer/never dance future (like the Knicks), at least for the foreseeable future. I think hammer and dance ar like the spurs, a kind of read and react system that requires a very good organization and perfect management.
    China did a strong hammer (like Phila) because they don’t really care about popular consensus..

  175. S&P Futures hit their *upward* limit this morning… very unusual and the first time its happened during this crisis. This looks to at least begin like a record day for the market. We’ll see if it holds.

    This President seems to think the daily volatility of the stock market is the best indicator of whether or not he’s doing a good job, so this certainly would confirm his feeling that opening up America for business in two weeks is the right call, regardless of how effective this quarantine has been. We can probably expect him to listen to his medical experts even less now. (Again, if the gains hold; that’s far from certain. If they don’t, god knows what he’ll come up with next.)

  176. Who knew that being called a thick little chucklefuck could make me feel so warm all over. I guess it is indeed all about context.

    Good morning, Raven! I’m glad you finished reading something ;)

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