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Wednesday, August 21, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2019.05.24)

  • [Hoops Rumors] Knicks Notes: Irving, Barrett, L.A., Pro Day
    (Thursday, May 23, 2019 7:30:11 PM)

    Free agency has not even begun, so this list is by no means set in stone, but as we sit here this evening, there appear to be four teams with a realistic shot of landing Kyrie Irving this summer – the Celtics, Knicks, Nets, and Lakers. For what it’s worth, Irving’s head coach from high school, Kevin Boyle, believes that Irving will […]

  • [TheRinger] Knicks Notes: Irving, Barrett, L.A., Pro Day
    (Thursday, May 23, 2019 7:30:11 PM)

    Free agency has not even begun, so this list is by no means set in stone, but as we sit here this evening, there appear to be four teams with a realistic shot of landing Kyrie Irving this summer – the Celtics, Knicks, Nets, and Lakers. For what it’s worth, Irving’s head coach from high school, Kevin Boyle, believes that Irving will […]

  • [SNY Knicks] Kemba Walker earns All-NBA nod, making it more difficult for Knicks to sign him
    (Thursday, May 23, 2019 9:50:58 PM)

    If the Knicks had any plans to make a run at Kemba Walker this offseason, the road just got bumpier.

  • [SNY Knicks] Latest on Knicks free agent target Kevin Durant: Status for NBA Finals in doubt
    (Thursday, May 23, 2019 2:34:09 PM)

    Warriors star Kevin Durant can be a free agent after the season, and the idea that he could team up with fellow free agent Kyrie Irving on the Knicks this summer has picked up steam since the Kristaps Porzingis trade cleared two max slots for New York. Here are the latest rumors…

  • [NYPost] Kemba Walker’s All-NBA nod is a problem for Knicks’ pursuit
    (Thursday, May 23, 2019 12:14:15 PM)

    If the Knicks want to sign Kemba Walker, they might need the New York native to take quite the hometown discount. The 29-year-old Hornets guard was named to the All-NBA Third Team Thursday, making Walker immediately eligible to receive a supermax extension from the only NBA team he’s ever known. The former UConn star is…

  • [NYPost] Clippers hype, Warriors belief as Knicks’ Kevin Durant threats are set
    (Thursday, May 23, 2019 8:44:43 AM)

    The Knicks’ competition for Kevin Durant is falling into place. As the superstar approaches free agency with speculation rampant, Durant’s former teammate Kendrick Perkins suggested to Fox Sports that Durant could end up with the Clippers when all is said and done. While many have believed Durant is New York bound, the Clippers have long…

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    67 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2019.05.24)

    1. alsep73

      So whether the Bucks come back or the Raptors hang on to win, do either of these teams have a shot against a well-rested (and perhaps mostly healthy) Warriors team? For a while, it looked like the Bucks might be their kryptonite, but instead the implosion of their non-Giannis players has created a blueprint for a smart team like GSW to defend him. Kawhi is a monster, even on one leg, but won’t Steph eat Lowry alive?

    2. Frank

      @1 – well seeing as GS went 0-2 in the regular season against the Raptors (a 3 point loss in which GS did not have Curry, and a 20 point loss in which Kawhi didn’t even play but GS had Curry/Klay/Iggy/Draymond/Durant all playing), I’d say the Raptors have a fighting chance.

      Durant probably is going to miss a game or two or at least not be himself completely from a rust/conditioning standpoint.

      Toronto will also have homecourt advantage.

      I think it’ll be a great series. Kawhi has generally owned Golden State. And even when Durant comes back, the Raptors have 3 guys that can serviceably guard him (Kawhi, Danny Green, Siakam) — KD’s isolation scoring has been the break glass in emergency go-to when the games bog down.

      This Milwaukee series really has shown how loaded Toronto is on the defensive end, even with Anunoby hurt. Lowry is small but a very good defender. Kawhi is Kawhi, Siakam is a potential all-NBA-type defender, Danny Green is still really good. Gasol is old but positionally is excellent (although would get eaten alive by Curry on a switch).

    3. Frank

      meanwhile, I am warming up to the idea (not sure if it’s even a thought) of trading down from #3 –> #5, taking Culver, and getting a top 10 protected 1st from Cleveland in 2020 (top 3 protected in 2021), somewhat a la the Atlanta/Dallas trade from last year. Reading the Cleveland news/blog sources, sounds like they are fixated on Barrett.

    4. KnickfaninNJ

      That seems like a lot pick protection. Atlanta got a first round pick protected only one to five in their deal and they got Young for their swap who was a much better prospect than Culver. We should get something better from Cleveland if we do that deal.

    5. lavor postell

      One thing to consider about trading down from 3 to 5 is also that it gives the Knicks double max space without making any trades even if they guarantee Dotson and exercise their option on Trier. That has value in and of itself.

      Of course if the end goal is still to trade for AD then the net return of a trade down versus the 3rd pick straight up to New Orleans needs to be part of the calculation as well.

      Personally I like the idea of trading down if we can get the protected pick Frank suggested and a couple of future 2nds. It would need to be contingent on Culver being available at 5 though for me.

    6. Hubert

      Kawhi is a monster, even on one leg, but won’t Steph eat Lowry alive?

      The Spurs used to put Kawhi on Curry, didn’t they? If Durant is hobbled, I think that’s the move.

      I sure am glad I hedged on Milwaukee with Toronto. Anyone want to buy a $500 12/1 bet on the Raptors to win it all? I need to get back some of the money I wasted betting against the Warriors.

    7. thenoblefacehumper

      Sign me up for any trade down scenario in which we still wind up with Culver. I’m leaning towards him at 3rd as it is, so getting him and another asset would be a huge win.

    8. Hubert

      meanwhile, I am warming up to the idea (not sure if it’s even a thought) of trading down from #3 –> #5, taking Culver, and getting a top 10 protected 1st from Cleveland in 2020 (top 3 protected in 2021), somewhat a la the Atlanta/Dallas trade from last year. Reading the Cleveland news/blog sources, sounds like they are fixated on Barrett.

      Is that a real possibility?

      I agree with KnickFanInNJ, that’s too much protection. The Dallas/ATL trade should be the template.

    9. Hubert

      Of course if the end goal is still to trade for AD then the net return of a trade down versus the 3rd pick straight up to New Orleans needs to be part of the calculation as well.

      I think it would help the AD trade. Anyone who watched college basketball last year saw Barrett struggle with Zion. I can’t see New Orleans being excited about bringing that problem to the NBA. If I’m the Pelicans, I probably like Garland at PG and a top-5 protected pick next year better than Barrett.

      And if New Orleans comes out of this summer with an under 20 core of Garland, Zion, Knox, and Mitchell Robinson, plus Cleveland’s 2020 pick and Dallas’ 2021 pick, I’m getting league pass and adopting a second team. Hell even Ntilikina might be useful with those 4.

    10. Frank O.

      I think the Raptors may be the kind of team that would give GS trouble.
      They play defense, and they have arguably the best player in basketball on their side.

      I think they should take Barrett. Don’t even flirt with the lumbering big. Knicks can use a 6’7 wing with handle. If he can improve his 3 point shooting, he could be great

    11. Farfa

      Toronto will never give any trouble to the Warriors.

      Kawhi is amazing but Danny Green and Marc Gasol are kinda washed. A monster shooting night from the Raptors might help them steal a game, but they’ll never have a chance, especially with this Draymond.

    12. d-mar

      Toronto in the Finals is not a foregone conclusion guys. I am disappointed in the way the Bucks have played the last few games, but these teams are really evenly matched, and I could easily see the Bucks winning an ugly low scoring game 6 and coming back and winning a similar game 7 at home.

      I will say my opinion of Giannis has come down a little, Kawhi (and the Raptors “wall” defense) is making him look mortal and indecisive on offense. The playoffs separates the men from the boys, and as Kawhi has risen to the occasion, the last few games the Freak really has not.

      But he still has a chance for redemption on Saturday.

    13. Farfa

      I think Giannis has one more step to climb and whatever happens in this series he’ll be ready next year. He’s not really primed to take over games. Yet. I think these playoffs will be invaluable experience for him.

      Also, Bledsoe is shitting the bed a little too often.

    14. Frank O.

      If the refs allow a little hand to hand combat and the Raptors can be as tough as they were in the Sixers series, GS will not have an easy time of it.
      Again, the Raptors took two of two from GS this year.
      And both the Bucks and Raptors will have home court advantage in the finals.
      Kawhi will be very motivated because of 2017. Siakam and Lowry will be massively important.

      I’m not predicting the Raptors win, but they are the hungrier team, if they get past the Bucks, which also isn’t a forgone conclusion.

    15. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I think we’re going to see a great, hero-ball performance from Kawhi if they make the Finals, but no surprise that it will take superstar play from Siakam or some role players for them to take 4 from the Warriors. I just don’t see it, and now I don’t see it from the Bucks either.

      Giannis’s game 3 performance was so weird. 23 rebounds and 4 blocks from a “point guard” while scoring 12 points on 16 shots and 7 FTA with 8 turnovers and 6 fouls. Single-handedly lost that game for them. It’s hard to criticize the other games too harshly when Kawhi has been a Jordanesque superstar. That said, the FT shooting is horrendous. Needs to be his focus this offseason even more than his 3PT shot should be.

      And what about Middleton and Mirotic? Can’t score 6 points on 13 shots and 5 FTA if the Bucks want to be a Finals team. That’s good for a .191 TS%. At league-worst team shooting efficiency (~.530 TS) they would have scored an additional ~10 points on the shots they took, and we wouldn’t be talking about Giannis as being exposed in the playoffs.

      And look, wouldn’t you know it — Klay doesn’t get the supermax, so the Warriors FO wins again. He’s a lock to return to the Dubs with a full max offered and even at an overpay, they look like they’re going to compete for another 2+ years whether Durant’s there or not. Curry is just a god.

    16. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      I will say my opinion of Giannis has come down a little, Kawhi (and the Raptors “wall” defense) is making him look mortal and indecisive on offense. The playoffs separates the men from the boys, and as Kawhi has risen to the occasion, the last few games the Freak really has not.

      It’s skill set.

      During the regular season, you are playing against bad defenders in games that don’t mean a lot on many nights. In the playoffs, especially in the later rounds, you are usually playing against very good defensive teams that are game planning to try to take away your strengths and going almost all out for every minute.

      Giannis is a great player, but he doesn’t have a lot of tricks up his sleeve. That’s why Toronto has been able to at least contain him. The Bucks have a great defense also, but Khawi can score from everywhere in any way. If you take away one thing he does something else. It’s harder to stop him. He has a much broader skill set.

      Giannis is young and already a great player, but he has to add more of an outside off the dribble shooting game so he can just take over. He can’t depend on getting to the basket all the time against every team and every matchup.

      All that said. no way the Bucks are out of this series.

    17. Grocer

      meanwhile, I am warming up to the idea (not sure if it’s even a thought) of trading down from #3 –> #5, taking Culver, and getting a top 10 protected 1st from Cleveland in 2020 (top 3 protected in 2021)

      I’d love this move, even if it means Reddish instead of Culver but I am way less sold on Barrett than pretty much anybody here. Fine with those protections too – Dallas moved up and got Doncic, Barrett is in no way that level of prize.

    18. Bruno Almeida

      @15

      Yeah, at this point it’s pretty clear that Giannis can’t carry the whole offense by himself when Mirotic, Middleton and or Bledsoe don’t show up. Bledsoe specially has been trash through some key moments in this series, and it’s allowing the Raptors to swarm around Giannis really hard on every possession.

      Of course, a MVP caliber player has to learn how to deal with this kind of pressure, but the Raptors’ job gets a lot easier when Middleton shoots 2-9 in such a key home game.

      I do think there’s an argument to be made that this Kawhi, going 100% after kind of cruising through the regular season, is just a better player than Giannis at this point. But I think that speaks more to the insane level Leonard has reached despite all the nagging injuries.

    19. Hubert

      Fine with those protections too – Dallas moved up and got Doncic, Barrett is in no way that level of prize.

      Atlanta moved down and got Young, though. Culver is in no way that kind of consolation.

      The price should be the same.

    20. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Giannis is a great player, but he doesn’t have a lot of tricks up his sleeve.

      The thing about Giannis is that if you’re containing him, you’re playing elite interior defense and forcing him to kick it out or turn it over. You will not beat Giannis over 48 from a poor midrange shooting night or the deep ball not finding the net from his hands.

      His dribble penetration is one of the nastiest skillsets in the game. He has a downhill game, a Eurostep, a spin move, a post game that leads to cutting layups for his teammates and turnaround dunks and the occasional short jumper. It’s certainly possible that the Raptors “figured him out,” but Game 3 is the only real dumpster fire of the series so far.

      You cannot blame Giannis for Brogdon and Bledsoe scoring 9 points on 18 shots or Mirotic and Middleton scoring 6 on 13. Those are series-losing performances, and they matter as much as Giannis’s scoring performances. Would I like to see a 35-point, .650 TS% game out of Giannis before I call him the best player in the series? Of course. But he can’t shoot for his teammates. And sometimes players miss open shots. We’re not out here blaming Harden for the 17 threes that his teammates missed during that infamous streak, even though he missed 10 himself, right?

    21. Grocer

      Atlanta moved down and got Young, though. Culver is in no way that kind of consolation.

      Fair enough, I just won’t be upset about only grabbing an extra protected first for dropping two spots in this draft. Still think this year’s 3-5 are 8-10 in a generic year.

    22. ptmilo

      i give toronto a serious shot if they get past the bucks and durant is missing games. i don’t think gasol (or lowry) is washed; he’s been playing really smart and effective defense and it’s frustrated both the bucks and the sixers at times. they’re mostly using him to space on offense and he probably needs to let a few more go but he’s making so few mistakes; this toronto team is damn good when kawhi isn’t about to collapse from pain and exhaustion. it would really help toronto to have OG back, not bc he’s great but because they are running the shit out of their starters and it would be really useful to have another versatile defender to take some of the load if they make it to the finals after another grueling series.

    23. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @20

      I’m not blaming Giannis for the losses. I’m pointing why he has been contained but a great defense like the Bucks hasn’t even been able to contain a hurt Khawi. Khawi is a more skilled player. He’s simply better.

      So when various combinations of Lowery, Green, Ibaka, Gasol and/or Siakim go into a coma or are shitting the bed (and they have at times), there’s still a chance that Khawi can win the game with some superhuman effort because he’s closer to unstoppable. If you can slow down Giannis, his secondary and role players have to come up big or he’s out of the playoffs. Most teams can’t slow down Giannis’s downhill game, which is why he is where is and scores so much overall, but it’s easier than stopping Khawi.

    24. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      So honestly, does anyone see similarities between RJ Barrett’s game and… Melo?

      On some relative scale given the disparity of competition and age, Melo is the better shooter and Barrett is the much better playmaker and passer. The difference between Barrett being a multi time all star or a useful role player is probably going to be his shot. How much can he improve his shot?

    25. DS

      On some relative scale given the disparity of competition and age, Melo is the better shooter and Barrett is the much better playmaker and passer. The difference between Barrett being a multi time all star or a useful role player is probably going to be his shot. How much can he improve his shot?

      A version of ‘Melo who is less in love with his shot but a better playmaker actually sounds OK.

    26. DRed

      The knock I’ve read on Barrett is that he’s good passing/playmaking wtihin a structured offense but bad at thinking/reacting on the fly.

    27. DS

      The knock I’ve read on Barrett is that he’s good passing/playmaking wtihin a structured offense but bad at thinking/reacting on the fly.

      That’s what they used to say about Eli. Mitch can be RJ’s Plaxico… I’m being facetious. That’s obviously a problem.

    28. Frank O.

      On some relative scale given the disparity of competition and age, Melo is the better shooter and Barrett is the much better playmaker and passer. The difference between Barrett being a multi time all star or a useful role player is probably going to be his shot. How much can he improve his shot?

      Strat

      I have to disagree on the shooting comparisons coming out of college, but still agree that Barrett will need to improve..
      I think in college Barrett was only 30.8% from 3PT. Melo was 33.7% in college. Melo was 45% from 2 pt, and Barrett was 45.4%.
      But Barrett is more athletic than Melo was out of college. He’s just an inch shorter but almost 20 pounds lighter than Melo was in his rookie season, so Barrett will need to add muscle. But Barrett’s vertical is 45 inches and Melo’s was 33 inches early in his career.

      It’s not a bad comparison, but Barrett will be more explosive.

    29. vincoug

      A version of ‘Melo who is less in love with his shot but a better playmaker actually sounds OK.

      Is he less in love with his shot? Barrett took over 700 FGs last year which is a fuckton. Here’s a list of everyone who took more than 700 FGA in a single NCAA season going back to 92-93. It’s not very long. It looks a little better when you look at his per game FGA which was 18.5, but it’s still a lot.

      For another example, Reddish missed 383 shots last year. Zion and Reddish took about 430 each. Tre Jones was 4th in FGA for Duke and he took 319.

    30. Early Bird

      Anytime you take 270 more fg attempts than a player who is significantly more efficient than you and is also capable of scoring on a high usage, it’s a problem. Yet, RJ did exactly that despite having Zion on his team.

      I think he might like his own shot a little too much.

    31. wetbandit

      If you look at that list, most players played significantly less minutes than Barrett. He played 1340 minutes. If you create a list of players playing more than 1300 minutes, the list is 6 players long, and he is number 4; if you change the numbers to players over 1000 minutes played, the list is 30 players long, and Barrett is #21 in FGA/game.

      So I don’t see how you can compare FGA in players with significantly different minute loads.

    32. chriskZIPCODE

      I’d be OK w/ the protection on the pick if Cleveland also gives us #26 this year. it looks like they have 11 guys under contract; the 3rd pick would be 12…..they don’t have a lot of room to maneuver if they have a 2nd first round pick this year. Besides, with the rumor that we may trade the 3 to NO for Davis, and that NO might then pick Barrett to go with Zion. I would think that if Cleveland really wants him they would do better than the 5 and a very protected future pick

    33. vincoug

      @31

      That’s what I keep on coming back to. He was playing next to one of the most dominant offensive players in recent NCAA history and awesome playmaker RJ decided that he should take over 60% more FGA than Zion. Even someone as ball-dominant as Iverson maxed out at 17.6 FGA/game and a total of 650 FGA.

    34. Frank O.

      Yeah, Zion was great, but RJ averaged 35+ minutes per game. Zion played 30. that is 16% more playing time.
      And one can argue that Zion may have been sublime in part because RJ was on the floor.
      That easily could have been Barrett’s team…but it wasn’t.

    35. Early Bird

      Yeah, Zion was great, but RJ averaged 35+ minutes per game. Zion played 30. that is 16% more playing time.
      And one can argue that Zion may have been sublime in part because RJ was on the floor.
      That easily could have been Barrett’s team…but it wasn’t.

      Or you could argue the opposite, that Zion would have sustained the efficiency on higher usage if RJ would just let him have the damn ball.

      Or you could argue that everyone on Duke shot like crap because RJ’s kickouts were terrible.

      Or maybe RJ would be phenomenal if anyone on Duke could shoot.

      Or maybe RJ and Zion both looked good because every other team was really keying in on Cam Reddish and that’s why he’s the worst NCAA shooter going in the lottery possibly ever.

      We can speculate all day, but I don’t see how that helps.

    36. Bruno Almeida

      I don’t know how this discussion is really helpful because we have no idea what really happened in that Duke squad. There was a lot of criticism when they lost directed at coach K for not figuring out how to run the offense, not putting Zion in the best position to perform and giving Barrett too much freedom to do whatever he wanted. So we don’t really know how much that’s on Barrett and how much it was a gameplan or simply a bad strategy.

      It is a bit scary that the guy who could do whatever he wanted decided to shoot everytime when we remember how Fizdale literally let inefficient scorers like Mudiay, DSJ and Knox do the same for the Knicks this year, but well, that is only a problem is we do end up picking Barrett and not trading him, if we don’t end up with superstars and Fizdale stays.

    37. gransoporro

      I am based in the Raleigh-Durham area.

      When the Duke offense broke down (and it happened a lot), it was “ball to Barrett time”. He would go and get the ball at the 3pt line and:
      dribble towards the paint and shoot (mainly) or pass
      take the 3pt if left wide open (it happened a lot, with defenses not fearing his shooting and watching Zion)

      And the above was a Duke strategic decision. If the ball was in the hands of anyone, they would look for RJ, and he would pop up.

      He has a strange set shot: his feet have an angle of 30 or 45 degrees with the direction of his body. His right is always significantly in front.

      Still I do not remember seen him taking a 3pt with time on the clock that was not open. The choice is good, he is just not very good at shooting.

    38. vincoug

      It is a bit scary that the guy who could do whatever he wanted decided to shoot everytime when we remember how Fizdale literally let inefficient scorers like Mudiay, DSJ and Knox do the same for the Knicks this year, but well, that is only a problem is we do end up picking Barrett and not trading him, if we don’t end up with superstars and Fizdale stays.

      Yeah, that’s the other thing that scares me. I can believe, with the right coaching and development, that RJ could become a good NBA player. I can’t believe the David “Keep What You Kill” Fizdale is that coach.

    39. Frank O.

      I love this feel I’m getting from some that somehow Barrett sucks…

      As I said, Zion was sublime. I’m not saying I would choose Barrett over him.
      What I’m objecting to is people kind of shitting on him and talking themselves in trading down.
      If you take Zion out of this draft, this guy would go 1 or 2.

      I believe this board tends to go pretty negative given long enough to mull. With is physical gifts and coming from a solid program, Barrett will be an important component, and maybe a star.
      Now is he worth packaging with Robinson to get AD? I don’t know.

    40. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @41

      I’m not down on RJ; in fact I’d be more than happy to have him. He’s a perfectly cromulent #3 pick. I just think Culver is his equal as a prospect (and Clarke really isn’t that much further behind), and so trading down to 4 or 5 for an extra asset represents net value. If they don’t do it, I won’t lose my mind. He’s not Jonny Flynn, and I don’t think he’s going to be an inveterate chucker in the NBA, especially if he’s playing with KD and Kyrie.

      I also don’t think the Melo comparison is fair. I barely saw any jab-step jumpers or dumb shit like that from RJ. What I saw was him not knowing what to do when he couldn’t overpower his man and then getting into trouble. And Duke specifically planned for him to play heroball, as gransoporro mentioned. He’s a far better playmaker than Melo, a less lackadaisical defender (not implying that he’s a good defender, just that he actually gives a shit), and is more a SG/SF than SF/PF. The comparison doesn’t really hold.

    41. geo

      i wonder if it’s just fatigue that’s causing giannis to miss so many free throws…he’s dropped from around 73% to 65%…it’s pretty obvious, that first free throw has no shot at going in…

      yeah, giannis playing one on four or five, probably ain’t gonna work…it freaks me out sometimes watching kawhi handle the ball with his face-hugger hands…that dude is not losing his grip for anything…

      good point on gasol:

      i don’t think gasol (or lowry) is washed; he’s been playing really smart and effective defense and it’s frustrated both the bucks and the sixers at times. they’re mostly using him to space on offense and he probably needs to let a few more go but he’s making so few mistakes

      he’s looked really solid out there defending…gasol is a pretty smart and experienced player…great pickup by toronto…probably the most key to this year’s playoffs…

      i can’t believe chad green is getting the start – say what you will about boone, seems to be a loyal guy…chad green has been money for years, but, he is really struggling this year…oh yeah, call me crazy – but, there’s something about frazier standing in the box that reminds me a bunch of knoblauch…

    42. Bruno Almeida

      @41

      Well, if you took Ben Simmons out of the 2016 draft, Jaylen Brown would have gone 1st or 2nd, which would have been a pretty terrible outcome for the first overall pick if you ask me. Draft position only matter relative to the players available, if you’re the 3rd pick in a draft that has 2 players everybody wants and no one else, it’s not that impressive as being the 3rd pick in a very strong draft with at least 5 or 6 really good prospects.

    43. JK47

      It seems to me that at least some of Barrett’s prestige comes from his status as a prep prospect, which is hype that he failed to live up to. He was supposed to be a smooth and polished prospect and he looked kind of clunky and awkward to me. When I saw him play I was kind of shocked.

      I’m not convinced he’s a better prospect than Culver, who looks like the kind of long switchable defender who is all the rage these days. I will say this about the two: Barrett started off horribly and improved during conference play, in a tough conference. Culver also played in a competitive conference but he was a lot worse in conference play.

      They seem like kind of a coin flip to me, so sure, if you can pick up an asset and still be sure you get Culver, that seems fine.

    44. Jack Bauer

      “Culver also played in a competitive conference but he was a lot worse in conference play.”

      FYI – Culver was Big 12 Player of the Year so he played pretty well in conference play too.

      Where he didn’t play well was in the NCAA tournament, at least the games I saw including the Championship game. I was a little disappointed, kept waiting for him to show a little more, particularly shooting the ball better. He has good size and does look like a switchable wing type. Barrett certainly has his warts, it seems close between the two, so if picking up another good asset is involved Perry should certainly consider it (Mills is not up to that level of thought I’m afraid)

    45. ess-dog

      I think RJ is stronger and the better rebounder, while Culver is more of a quick-twitch athlete (why his defensive metrics are much better). But Culver is also a year older. Clarke might be better than both of them. I guess it does make sense to trade down and get an extra asset or two if you think those player are all in the same tier.

    46. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      It’s actually laughable that you guys love Culver and hate Barrett when Barrett is younger, taller, and did everything better than Culver but shoot free throws and steal the ball.

      The only reason you don’t like Barrett is because he played next to Zion Williamson. I challenge any of you to compare their stats and tell me I’m lying.

    47. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      I’m very much in the “I cannot tell the difference between Culver and Barrett as they stand to translate to the NBA but I know that Brandon Clarke is a safer pick but a big reach at #3 and probably not a great pairing with Mitch but at the end of the day I do know that we missed out on Zion due to Silver’s stupid plan that didn’t work in the lease so just pick a prospect not named Cam from a hat and I’ll just live with whatever bullshit draft-bust misfortune befalls this bullshit franchise” camp

    48. JK47

      It’s actually laughable that you guys love Culver and hate Barrett when Barrett is younger, taller, and did everything better than Culver but shoot free throws and steal the ball.

      For starters, I haven’t seen anybody here say they “love” Culver. Some people are suggesting they’re in the same tier, so, uh that would seem to suggest that people like them kind of equally.

      Second, it has also been suggested that Culver is taller than his listed height, I think that was on the Stepien or something. Does anybody know how Barrett and Culver measured height-wise at the combine? I’d be interested to know the true measurements.

      It’s kind of hard to project defense, but steals are a fairly good proxy, so it’s not just the steals that people like about Culver. It’s his overall defensive potential. Culver got 1.8 steals per 40, while Barrett only got a tepid 1.0 steals per 40.

    49. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Just a note: Culver is a little over a year older than Barrett.

      Not that this means all that much, but I think it’s worth looking at Barrett’s numbers when Zion was out hurt and he was asked to do more. That 5 game stretch looked like this

      30 pts; 5 reb; 7 assists; 2p 12-15
      21 pts; 5 reb; 4 assists; 2p 7-9
      19 pts; 10 rebs, 7 assists; 2p 8-15
      28 pts; 5 reb; 4 assists; 2p 11-17
      26 pts; 12 reb; 4 assists 2p 6-16

      he was 6/31 from 3 during that stretch; but we already know that’s a problem area.

    50. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @52

      Barrett didn’t do the measurements at the combine. I believe his last listed height and reach are from late high school or early college. He may still be growing.

    51. JK47

      I guess Culver measured 6’6” and 3/4 at the combine so the speculation that he might be a bit taller was off base.

      That does take a bit of shine off Culver.

    52. Grocer

      Barrett may well be the better prospect but it seems pretty damn marginal and he’s not a particularly good prospect at three. He’d be great at eight. If you can drop a touch and get a future pick? You’d need to be really attached to Barrett to turn that down. I wouldn’t even mind heavy protections for next year, as a 2021 pick when the age restriction lifts should be a richer draft. Even if you want to avoid the HS kids -which I think is a good idea – their presence in the pool enhances your options.

    53. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      My point is you cannot be down on Barrett but not be down on Jarrett Culver. Are they similar prospects? Absolutely, they have similar numbers, but doing what RJ Barrett did as a freshman in the ACC is more impressive than what Jarrett Culver did as a sophomore in the Big 12. That’s why I give him the edge over Culver, and I think that’s pretty reasonable.

      I really hope we take Barrett. This isn’t a prospect where you look at him and say “well if I could just teach that kid how to play basketball he’d be really good” the way our scouts did with Frank and Knox. RJ Barrett is an average jumper and/or free throw line consistency away from being the whole package, and if Marc Gasol can learn to shoot 3s in a summer, then 19 year old RJ Barrett can lock himself in a gym with his godfather Steve Nash (who works as a player development consultant with Golden State) and make improvements to his shooting.

    54. JK47

      The Steve Nash connection means nothing to me. If it’s such a great advantage having Steve Nash as your godfather maybe your shooting should be good already. That’s a non factor for me.

      The reason to prefer Culver is for defense. The reason to prefer Barrett is that he’s a year younger and he’s a playmaker. They’re reasonably comparable. Knowing that Culver is in fact 6’6 3/4” makes me slightly prefer RJ.

      I also think RJ has higher perceived value, and that matters. He might fetch more in a trade because he’s “RJ Barrett, Consensus Prep #1” and Culver does not have that mystique.

    55. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      For as much shit as RJ Barrett gets for his shooting, he does average a hair over 2 3PM per 40. Nobody doubts that Luka Doncic can shoot even though he hit 32.7% from 3 and 71.3% from the free throw line last season. RJ Barrett really isn’t as bad as Zion’s shadow made him seem.

    56. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Just looked at Doncic’s splits and saw that he shot 22% on 102 3PA in March. Looks like he just fell off a cliff everywhere in March. I wonder if it was fatigue, injury, high usage (35%!) or just a bad streak.

    57. Bruno Almeida

      The point about Culver and Barrett has mostly been that Barrett should have more reputation and be worth more in trade scenarios, so unless you really like Barrett much more than Culver, I’d rather have Culver + asset than just Barrett. If we can’t trade down and simply have to pick whoever is at 3rd, or if the pick is simply going to be trade fodder for Davis, then I would rather pick Barrett, as if he is bad he should still have more trade value, and I think he has a chance of being a good player, about the same chance I would give to Culver honestly.

      I’m just not a big fan of either. Like Grocer said, I’d be happy picking either at the 6-8 range, but I just don’t see enough to get really excited about using the 3rd pick on either of them. Anyway, that’s the predicament we’re in because it seems like a weak draft, so at least there are prospects with some upside.

    58. Grocer

      RJ Barrett is an average jumper and/or free throw line consistency away from being the whole package,

      Yeah, all this volume shooter had to learn is how to shoot.

      Trade down if we can. This draft is shit.

    59. GoNYGoNYGo - Calling for KD

      What I like about Barrett is that at times he looks like a power forward and at other times he looks like a point guard. He’s the type of player that could take over a game offensively both by scoring and dishing. My question would be his tendency to fall asleep on the defensive end which reminds me of Melo.

    60. KnickfaninNJ

      I really don’t know draft picks well, but just reading here if Barrett can assist but Culver can’t or does much less that seems like a qualitative difference, not a quantitative one, and it makes Barrett more valuable if they are otherwise similar players

    61. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Just looked at Doncic’s splits and saw that he shot 22% on 102 3PA in March. Looks like he just fell off a cliff everywhere in March. I wonder if it was fatigue, injury, high usage (35%!) or just a bad streak.

      Clubbing with Porzingis? :-)

    62. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @65

      Their passing stats are very similar, with the caveat that it’s Culver’s sophomore season where they are similar (he had worse passing than RJ his freshman year). Culver is also a playmaker. What differentiates RJ from Culver is RJs worse defense but his superior rebounding and volume scoring. RJ was better than year 1 Culver, but year 2 Culver was significantly better than RJ. What you’re relying on to justify RJ (especially when considering his tepid steals numbers) is that he would’ve made a year 2 leap that would make him more productive than Culver. Because Culver is more productive now and has better projectibles, I’d probably take him despite his what looks to be a lower ceiling. If we can trade down though, that’d be terrific.

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