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Thursday, June 20, 2019

Knicks Morning News (2019.05.22)

  • [NYTimes] And-Ones: Pelicans, Draft, Hornets
    (Wednesday, May 22, 2019 12:00:07 AM)

    New Pelicans GM Trajan Langdon said leaving Brooklyn was a “very difficult decision” for him and his family, as he told reporters, including Hoops Rumors, during his introductory press conference call earlier today. However, the chance to team up with GM David Griffin again was too great to pass up. “The opportunity to join up […]

  • [NYTimes] Clippers Emerging Threat To Sign Kevin Durant
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:12:51 PM)

    The Clippers have emerged as an “equally dangerous” threat to the Knicks in luring Durant away from the Warriors, Marc Stein of the New York Times writes in his latest newsletter. New York has always been a constant in the rumors regarding Durant’s next employer. Stein previously heard from a trusted source that Durant was […]

  • [NYTimes] Kyrie Irving Open To Joining Lakers?
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:00:54 PM)

    Is Kyrie Irving seriously considering the Lakers as a free agent destination this summer? Brian Windhorst of ESPN.com (video link) believes Irving has become “more open” to teaming up with LeBron James than he was earlier in the season. Irving has done research on the Lakers and a move to Los Angeles isn’t off the […]

  • [NYTimes] Hawks Notes: Draft, No.8, Reddish, Fernando
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:37:27 PM)

    The Mavericks agreed to send their top-5 protected 2019 first-rounder to the Hawks as part of the Luka Doncic draft night trade last June. Entering the NBA draft lottery, Dallas had hoped to keep this year’s pick and delay conveying the selection. Assistant GM Keith Grant told Chris Kirschner of the Athletic that the Mavs […]

  • [NYTimes] List Of Suitors For Tobias Harris Continues To Grow
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:57:24 PM)

    Tobias Harris is set to hit the open market as an unrestricted free agent for the first time in his career and he will have options outside of Philadelphia. The Grizzlies, Jazz, Mavericks, and Nets were previously linked to the combo forward and Keith Pompey of the Philadelphia Inquirer adds the Kings and Pacers to […]

  • [NYTimes] Blazers, Terry Stotts Agree To Multiyear Extension
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:53:43 PM)

    Less than 24 hours after they were eliminated from the postseason, the Trail Blazers have agreed to terms on a multiyear contract extension for head coach Terry Stotts, tweets Casey Holdahl of Blazers.com. Head of basketball operations Neil Olshey said that the two sides finalized an agreement “20 minutes ago,” Holdahl adds (via Twitter). [RELATED: […]

  • [NYTimes] Pacific Notes: Looney, Durant, Lakers, Kings
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 4:08:04 PM)

    While it took him a few years to develop into the player he is now, Kevon Looney has become a key part of the Warriors‘ success, with head coach Steve Kerr referring to him as “one of our foundational pieces,” per Anthony Slater of The Athletic. “To be called a foundational piece, I never wouldâ??ve […]

  • [NYTimes] David Griffin Plans To Meet With Anthony Davis In L.A.
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 3:07:12 PM)

    Speaking today to reporters, new Pelicans head of basketball operations David Griffin reiterated that he remains focused on selling Anthony Davis on the idea of remaining in New Orleans, despite reports that Davis plans to stick to his trade request. According to Griffin, he intends to meet with the All-Star big man soon, as Mike […]

  • [NYTimes] NBA Announces 2018/19 All-Rookie Teams
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:06:19 PM)

    The NBA has officially announced its All-Rookie teams for the 2018/19 season. Luka Doncic of the Mavericks and Trae Young of the Hawks â?? widely viewed as the only two legit contenders for this season’s Rookie of the Year award â?? were also the only two players to be unanimously selected to the First Team, […]

  • [NYTimes] Blazers Notes: Lillard, Stotts, Offseason
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 1:03:57 PM)

    Earlier today, Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports reported that the Trail Blazers are expected to sign Damian Lillard to a super-max extension that would lock him up for four additional seasons beyond the end of his current contract. ESPN’s Brian Windhorst covered the same subject in his own article this morning, pointing out that the […]

  • [NYTimes] 2019 NBA Offseason Salary Cap Digest: Denver Nuggets
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 12:03:44 PM)

    After narrowly missing the playoffs in 2018, the Nuggets expressed confidence in their core by bringing back virtually the same group, and that bet paid off to the tune of 54 regular-season victories, the No. 2 seed in the West, and the club’s first playoff series win since 2009. The Nuggets will count on continued […]

  • [NYTimes] Agent: Ntilikina “Extremely Happy” To Be A Knick
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:22:58 AM)

    MAY 21, 10:22am: Ntilikina’s new agent, Boune Ndiaye, denies that his client’s change in representation is directly linked to a desire to leave the Knicks, according to Marc Berman of The New York Post. “I can just tell you that the fact he was not traded has nothing to do with this change of agent,” […]

  • [NYTimes] Grizzlies Interviewed Raptors’ Griffin For Head Coaching Job
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:12:23 AM)

    The Grizzlies recently interviewed Raptors assistant Adrian Griffin for their open head coaching position, league sources tell ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski (Twitter link). A former NBA player, Griffin became an assistant coach immediately after his retirement in 2008, spending time with the Bucks, Bulls, Magic, and Thunder before joining Nick Nurse‘s staff in Toronto as the […]

  • [NYTimes] Blazers, Lillard Expected To Agree To Super-Max Extension
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:05:43 AM)

    While Damian Lillard‘s 2019 playoff run came to an end on Monday night, his contract with the Trail Blazers is expected to be extended this offseason, according to Chris Haynes of Yahoo Sports. Haynes reports that Lillard and the Blazers will likely agree to terms on a super-max extension this summer after the point guard […]

  • [NYPost] RJ Barrett schedules pro day as Knicks mull options
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:00:36 PM)

    Duke swingman RJ Barrett will stage a pro day with the rest of agent Bill Duffy’s draft-eligibles Tuesday at UCLA. Unlike the other participants, however, Barrett is not expected to perform drills — just interview with teams and speak with the media. This at least gives a chance for the Pelicans to meet with Barrett,…

  • [NYPost] Kevin Durant’s closest confidant dodges Knicks hype as whispers grow
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:08:02 PM)

    Kevin Durant’s closest confidant is playing it safe. The superstar’s manager and media business partner, Rich Kleiman, offered little hints over his client’s future Tuesday during an appearance at the Wall Street Journal’s Future of Everything Festival. “He really doesn’t know, and I don’t know,” Kleiman said. Many in the basketball community would seem to…

  • [NYPost] Pelicans lay out ‘next step’ in their Anthony Davis plan
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:51:48 AM)

    Anthony Davis’ status is the elephant in the NBA’s room. New Pelicans boss David Griffin said Davis’ status should be clearer after Griffin meets with his disgruntled star next month in California for a frank face-to-face. “Yeah, we’ll visit together. We’ll probably sit together in Los Angeles at some point around the draft workouts that…

  • [NYPost] Mitchell Robinson gets NBA honor before Knicks’ uncertain offseason
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:08:53 AM)

    The 17-65 record didn’t net Zion Williamson, but the season gave birth to one positive: center Mitchell Robinson. That became official when Robinson was named to the NBA’s All-Rookie Second Team on Tuesday. The Knicks’ lottery pick, forward Kevin Knox, did not make it, despite being an alternate selection in the Rising Stars Challenge. Knox…

  • [NBA] Mitchell Robinson Named to NBA All-Rookie Second Team
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:32:25 AM)

    NEW YORK (May 21, 2019) – New York Knicks center Mitchell Robinson was named to the 2018-19 NBA All-Roo

  • [SNY Knicks] Steve Nash explains why godson RJ Barrett is perfect for Knicks
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 11:34:53 PM)

    Steve Nash says that his godson, RJ Barrett, has more than just the skills to be able to succeed in an environment like New York.

  • [SNY Knicks] Latest on Knicks target Kevin Durant: Clippers an ‘equally dangerous’ threat as New York?
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:25:09 PM)

    Warriors star Kevin Durant can be a free agent after the season, and the idea that he could team up with fellow free agent Kyrie Irving on the Knicks this summer has picked up steam since the Kristaps Porzingis trade cleared two max slots for New York. Here are the latest rumors…

  • [SNY Knicks] David Griffin explains why Knicks target Anthony Davis should want to stay with Pelicans
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:04:47 PM)

    Pelicans Executive Vice President of Basketball Operations David Griffin plans to visit with Davis in Los Angeles in the coming weeks to talk to him about remaining with the franchise.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks’ Mitchell Robinson named to NBA’s All-Rookie second team
    (Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:18:39 PM)

    Knicks big man Mitchell Robinson has been named to the NBA’s second All-Rookie team, in large part due to his defensive accomplishments from the

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    99 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2019.05.22)

    1. lavor postell

      If we sign KD and Kyrie or whatever duo of stars, I’d be trying to move Knox for Saric. I don’t know if Minnesota would do that trade, if they have any interest in Knox or believe in his “potential”, but contractually it makes sense for them since they’ll be hard up to pay Saric next summer.

    2. Name is Bron - James Bron

      IMHO, people are missing the key reason NOT to trade Mitch for AD. Here’s the top 10 reasons but #1 is perhaps the most important:

      (10) Mitch is homegrown top talent, we found him on the remainder bin. To dull the mercenary smell of KD and Kyrie, we need a guy like Mitch for the fans.
      (9) Ben Wallace was the most important player on that Pistons chip team.
      (8) Mitch smoked Capela, Tyson, Deandre, Gobert in rookie year comps. Higher ceiling.
      (7) AD not a top tier player. Team results have not there to put him Bron/KD/Curry/Beard.
      (6) AD’s career 3FG% of 31% a yellow flag playing next to KD and Kyrie/Kemba
      (5) Heat’s Big 3 had to adjust – are we sure our Big 3 would be able to?
      (4) Beal + Mitch > AD……..Covington + Mitch + Satoransky > AD
      (3) Diminishing returns of AD playing next to Kyrie and KD. Kyrie and KD are scorers. AD would be Bosh with a worse 3FG%.
      (2) AD and KD (no Kyrie/Kemba) would be too thin a team with no resources to deal

      ***************And the #1 reason not to trade Mitch for AD is*********************************
      (1) Mitch is the Giannis-stopper. Mitch has got the length, speed, timing, and fast jump required to turn the Greek Freak into the Meek Freak. If you don’t believe me ask Embiid. (BTW Embiid for Davis is a wild card trade.). If Kawhi heads West and Embiid’s dicey health heads South, then it’s NYK and Bucks. Unless Giannis develops a reliable outside shot, PnR wouldn’t be effective if Giannis is the ball-handler.

    3. Name is Bron - James Bron

      I haven’t given up the dream of a starting 5 of KI/Beal/Covington/KD/Mitch. I asked this before but didn’t receive an answer. Would CBA permit this type of deal for Beal (Kornet agrees to trade)?

      Kornet in S&T…………… about 5m
      #3 pick…………………….. 7.8m
      Knox…………………………4.4m
      DSJ…………………………..3.8m
      Pick (maybe)……………………0m
      TOTAL……………………… 21m

      I think that would make the #’s work but I’m not sure if Knicks could include other players in S&T.

    4. Grocer

      Look, the important thing is that when the Knicks sign the disgruntlement duo of KD and KI we’ll need to trade as many forward looking assets as possible to acquire mediocre vets to put around them. The terrible (fraternal) twins will discover at least by the end of training camp that the NYC media is a couple orders of magnitude worse than what they’ve already been exposed to. We’re only going to have a month and a half window to convince them a championship is incoming if we don’t want them angling to get traded that first year. We’re probably boned next summer no matter the outcome but if we also hold off on trading for AD we can probably trade KD for him then.

    5. Early Bird

      I haven’t given up the dream of a starting 5 of KI/Beal/Covington/KD/Mitch. I asked this before but didn’t receive an answer. Would CBA permit this type of deal for Beal (Kornet agrees to trade)?

      Kornet in S&T…………… about 5m
      #3 pick…………………….. 7.8m
      Knox…………………………4.4m
      DSJ…………………………..3.8m
      Pick (maybe)……………………0m
      TOTAL……………………… 21m

      I think that would make the #’s work but I’m not sure if Knicks could include other players in S&T.

      I think the only way this works is if we can dump some salary before signing Kornet. Paying him that much puts us over the cap once we sign KD & Kyrie. Based on their current salaries. I don’t think we can get KD, Kyrie, Covington, and Beal. The total salary for those players is about $108 million right there with the cap at $109 million. We might be able to do it later, but definitely not this offseason.

    6. Brian Cronin

      You can’t sign and trade players in the same transaction as other players. You can trade them to the same team in non-simultaneous transactions, but the key to non-simultaneous transactions is that each transaction has to stand on its own. This would not be the case, as you would need the Kornet salary to make it work.

      The tricky thing is that when deals are later reported, no one ever pays attention to the fact that they involved non-simultaneous transactions and the deal gets reported as one big deal by mistake. A perfect example of this is when the Nets and the Celtics made their blockbuster KG/Paul Pierce trade. It looks like Keith Bogans was signed and traded as part of the deal, but in reality, he was a non-simultaneous transaction for Jason Terry (who the Celtics insisted that the Nets had to take, as well, if they got KG and Pierce). Still, worked out for Bogans to get $5 million just to match salaries with Terry!

    7. Name is Bron - James Bron

      We’re able to go over the cap to sign Kornet since he’s an RFA. Given that, I doubt there’s that type of restriction in a S&T. My vague recollection is just 1 player may dealt by one of the teams. Not sure if my memory’s right about that but if it is it may apply to Wiz (just Beal) and not the Knicks (just Kornet). My guess is that just Kornet may be included in the S&T but Wiz could send multiple players. That, of course, would end my dream.

    8. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Just read Brian’s response. Dream is dead. If Knicks had kept Noah, we might have been able to send him into some rebuilding team’s cap with a 1st round pick. We then wouldn’t have his cap hit and could have included Lance in Beal (or other) deal (Frank dealt for pick would have freed up enough to max KI and KD).

    9. DRed

      I wonder if these KD to the Clippers rumblings have any truth to them. It would make more sense than coming to the Knicks from a “I still want to win” perspective.

    10. Brian Cronin

      I wonder if these KD to the Clippers rumblings have any truth to them. It would make more sense than coming to the Knicks from a “I still want to win” perspective.

      KD to the Knicks has never really been about making sense, though, ya know?

      That’s the good thing, though, about the Knicks’ current situation. Even if Durant doesn’t come here, then they can still just do a standard rebuild, which wouldn’t be the worst thing at all.

      Stress can, of course, as who knows what the folks in charge would actually do if they missed out on Durant and Kawhi. Possibly something stupid. Boogie Cousins and Tobias Harris, come on down!

    11. Brian Cronin

      Just read Brian’s response. Dream is dead. If Knicks had kept Noah, we might have been able to send him into some rebuilding team’s cap with a 1st round pick. We then wouldn’t have his cap hit and could have included Lance in Beal (or other) deal (Frank dealt for pick would have freed up enough to max KI and KD).

      True, their handling of the Noah situation was poorly thought out. Hopefully that same level of ill-consideration won’t matter this offseason and KD and KI will both choose to sign here. Fingers crossed!

    12. Dink

      Henry, our current team president signed Tim Hardaway Jr. to a 4 year, $71 million contract while also giving Ron F’ing Baker a defacto no trade clause. There’s still plenty to be concerned about regarding this front office.

    13. Name is Bron - James Bron

      There is nothing the current management has done that lends credence to that concern.

      Dolan at the end of the Kay interview said in EMPHATIC terms that the Knicks this season will look nothing like the 2018-19 Knicks. Ain’t no way they’re trotting out a starting lineup of DSJ/Dotson/RJ/Knox/Mitch. That may be worse than last year’s team.

      KD transferred his business HQ to NYC and sold his Malibu home. He’s never denied Knick rumors. His agent is a diehard Knick fan and I don’t think he would let this chatter continue if it weren’t almost a done deal. ESPN’s Smith and Mills are chummy and I’d bet that 95% comment was sourced by Mills.

      What is the 5%? What if AD stays in NO or is traded to Lakers/Clippers or some other team and Kyrie who previously committed to KD that he wanted the Knicks has a change of heart? Maybe he’s singed by the Boston experience and would prefer a lower key Brooklyn environment? Would KD still join NYK if no AD or Kyrie?

    14. bobneptune

      Vonleh is the actual Kryptonite for Giannis. If Mitch had to cover Giannis all over the floor he’d foul out in 38 seconds. Its one thing to be quick for a 7 footer and another to be quick like Giannis.

      And if you don’t think AD is a top tier player I don’t know what to tell you.
      And if you think Bosh = AD I don’t know what to say….

      25.9/12.0/2.4 don’t grow on trees!

    15. Hubert

      Apropos to nothing, I’m going to be pretty bummed if there’s a Zion-Knox-Robinson front line in New Orleans next year, considering that’s exactly what I really wanted to see here.

    16. Name is Bron - James Bron

      And if you think Bosh = AD I don’t know what to say….

      You don’t have to say anything, just read what I wrote. AD’s better than Bosh in the abstract but next to Kyrie and KD, he’s Bosh.

      And if you don’t think AD is a top tier player I don’t know what to tell you.

      Top tier: Bron/Curry/KD/Harden/Giannis

      AD’s in the next tier. All of those guys have shown they’re able to carry a team to a high level. AD’s never done that.

      Vonleh is the actual Kryptonite for Giannis. If Mitch had to cover Giannis all over the floor he’d foul out in 38 seconds. Its one thing to be quick for a 7 footer and another to be quick like Giannis.

      To beat the freak, you need to be a freak. People don’t get how much of a freak Mitch is. There’s never been a big in the history of the league (and Z-man that includes Wilt) that has had his combination of speed, length, timing, and fast twitch. His rapid acceleration is the key difference which makes him the Giannis-stopper.

    17. Brian Cronin

      Apropos to nothing, I’m going to be pretty bummed if there’s a Zion-Knox-Robinson front line in New Orleans next year, considering that’s exactly what I really wanted to see here.

      Yeah, if the Pellies could get Robinson for AD, that’d give them a big leg up going forward.

    18. bobneptune

      Apropos to nothing, I’m going to be pretty bummed if there’s a Zion-Knox-Robinson front line in New Orleans next year, considering that’s exactly what I really wanted to see here.

      I’m guessing an AD, KD and KI troika would be a pretty good consolation prize to assuage your tsuris :-)

    19. Hubert

      I’m guessing an AD, KD and KI troika would be a pretty good consolation prize to assuage your tsuris :-)

      For a few years until Zion and Mitch Rob become the new Duncan and Robinson.

    20. Name is Bron - James Bron

      Apropos to nothing, I’m going to be pretty bummed if there’s a Zion-Knox-Robinson front line in New Orleans next year, considering that’s exactly what I really wanted to see here.

      Cheer up, far worse would have been a Zion, Mitch & Morant trio.

    21. bobneptune

      If you’d rather have Lebron over AD for the next 5 years I don’t know what to tell you.

      Did it enter your mind that AD might be a lot BETTER surrounded by 2 other terrific players where he won’t be triple teamed all the time and not worse?

    22. bobneptune

      For a few years until Zion and Mitch Rob become the new Duncan and Robinson.

      This is pretty funny…. for those not paying attention AD IS the new Duncan (both of their 25 year old seasons:

      https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=1&player_id1_hint=Anthony+Davis&player_id1_select=Anthony+Davis&y1=2019&player_id1=davisan02&idx=players&player_id2_hint=Tim+Duncan&player_id2_select=Tim+Duncan&y2=2002&player_id2=duncati01&idx=players

    23. KnickfaninNJ

      It’s hard to say if the front office mishandled Noah. From some articles around the time, there might have been non money related reasons they waived and stretched him.

    24. Name is Bron - James Bron

      If you’d rather have Lebron over AD for the next 5 years I don’t know what to tell you.

      Of course not. If I were the Lakers, I’d trade Bron. But he’s still a top tier player as I write this.

      Did it enter your mind that AD might be a lot BETTER surrounded by 2 other terrific players where he won’t be triple teamed all the time and not worse?

      I’m judging the performance of AD’s teams relative to the talent of those teams. Those teams should have finished higher if AD were a true tier 1 player. And no I don’t think AD would be a lot better next to Kyrie and KD. In fact, I think he’d be worse. That said, I think he would be better if he played with Kawhi for the Clippers. He’s just a bad fit with KD and Kyrie. Like I wrote, Beal and Mitch would be better than AD on a KI and Kyrie team.

    25. Brian Cronin

      It’s hard to say if the front office mishandled Noah. From some articles around the time, there might have been non money related reasons they waived and stretched him.

      They could have just told him to stay home if there were issues with him outside of his contract. So long as you pay a player their full contract, you can have pretty much any relationship you want with that player.

    26. Owen

      AD is way better than Lebron going forward.

      I love Mitch more than anyone on earth but I think calling him Wilt+ is a little aggressive. Wilt was the biggest physical anomaly the game has ever seen. He probably was the best 7 foot athlete that’s ever been. And he did look a little like Mitch actually at the same age. But Wilt was a once in a lifetime guy.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=wilt+chamberlain+young+photo&rlz=1C1GCEU_enUS820US821&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwinkeS3ua_iAhULq1kKHfTiBdQQ_AUIDigB&biw=960&bih=564#imgrc=ff5qhbRsMQaTEM:

    27. Hubert

      for those not paying attention AD IS the new Duncan

      Good point.

      Ok, fine, I’ll be happy if we have AD, Durant, and Kyrie.

    28. Hubert

      Timing is going to be so important in the AD trade. Specifically, will it happen before or after free agency begins?

      If the Knicks (or anyone) get Kyrie to leave Boston in free agency, it triggers a lot of dominoes. If Boston puts together their best package for AD (Tatum, Brown, Smart, Williams, picks) they’re not exactly leaving a team that AD would be excited about signing an extension with behind. If Kyrie leaves, it would probably force them to have to hold on to Tatum. If they hold on to Tatum, we can top their offer, possibly even without Mitch.

    29. Brian Cronin

      For the Knicks’ sake, they need it to be after free agency begins, right? They need to have KD and KI in place before doing the deal.

    30. ess-dog

      I’m always going to assume that free agents are just using NYK for leverage and aren’t really going to sign contracts until I hear they have definitively signed contracts.

      Therefore, I like to plan for the worst-case scenario.

      If Knox can bulk up this summer, a Barrett/Knox/Mitch frontcourt could be fun and interesting to watch, although they won’t win a ton of games. But the backcourt could be brutal. I guess DSJ is the de facto starting point guard until a replacement comes along, but Frank is just too terrible to play the other guard spot.

      If we trade Frank for a late first/early second, we can try Roach or Norvell at the position, or we can put Barrett at sg and draft an sf, maybe Schofield or Windler.

      Like James Bron said, I”m sure they’ll eventually sign some free agents, but I’m not going to believe in the KD/KI rumors until it happens.

    31. Hubert

      More on timing:

      The Lakers will want to get this done before free agency begins. They can’t let New Orleans hold them up. But New Orleans seems a little spiteful and might want to. If they do that, LA might just say fuck it and use their cap space.

      In summary: Boston and LA need this to be done before free agency begins. We benefit greatly if it doesn’t.

      EDIT: I was writing this when you posted that, Brian. Yes, that matters a ton, too!

    32. Z-man

      People don’t get how much of a freak Mitch is. There’s never been a big in the history of the league (and Z-man that includes Wilt) that has had his combination of speed, length, timing, and fast twitch. His rapid acceleration is the key difference which makes him the Giannis-stopper.

      The needle on the dumb-meter just snapped off…

    33. Name is Bron - James Bron

      I love Mitch more than anyone on earth but I think calling him Wilt+ is a little aggressive.

      I never said that. Here’s what I wrote:

      There’s never been a big in the history of the league (and Z-man that includes Wilt) that has had his combination of speed, length, timing, and fast twitch. His rapid acceleration is the key difference which makes him the Giannis-stopper.

      That’s true as written; Chamberlain didn’t have that combination. Wilt was a freak who was far stronger than Mitch. Mitch is a freak who’s got one-of-a-kind acceleration for a big. That’s why he’s able to reject so many perimeter shots. It’s that combination which makes him different from Wilt and other centers. Wilt was unique by virtue of his combination of athleticism and strength. I never said Mitch was better than Wilt.

    34. wetbandit

      Someone smarter than me please correct me, but isn’t it impossible to trade for Davis until August or so? I presume they need to trade RJ Barrett to make it work, which would necessitate waiting a month after signing him, which is some point after draft day?

    35. cgreene

      For all the KD to Clips talk where does that leave Kawhi? He ain’t going to the LAL circus. Do Clips have $ for both? I saw they have around $60M. If you were West wouldn’t your first call be to Kawhi not KD? Kawhi is probably a hair better and a lot younger. Once you do that you know you lose KD with his sensitivity. Of course I’d be even happier if KD went to LA and Kawhi came to us. Then I’d def do an AD trade. Thoughts?

    36. Brian Cronin

      Someone smarter than me please correct me, but isn’t it impossible to trade for Davis until August or so? I presume they need to trade RJ Barrett to make it work, which would necessitate waiting a month after signing him, which is some point after draft day?

      They can agree to a deal in principle. It’s what the Cavs did in their similar situation when they traded Wiggins for Love. So yes, the Knicks would officially need to wait until Barrett signs his rookie deal, but the deal would essentially be done. It’s akin to the “Player to be named later” trades that you see in baseball.

    37. Brian Cronin

      For all the KD to Clips talk where does that leave Kawhi? He ain’t going to the LAL circus. Do Clips have $ for both? I saw they have around $60M. If you were West wouldn’t your first call be to Kawhi not KD? Kawhi is probably a hair better and a lot younger. Once you do that you know you lose KD with his sensitivity. Of course I’d be even happier if KD went to LA and Kawhi came to us. Then I’d def do an AD trade. Thoughts?

      The Clippers should be able to dump Gallo pretty easily to free up two max slots. He’s playing well and only signed for one more year. Teams would be glad to take him for effectively nothing. Like if you’re Atlanta, Gallo would be a nice add for just cap space. Then they could possibly flip him during the season.

    38. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      I’m going to give them a pass on how they handled Noah. It’s spilled milk. It was a terrible signing, his partying made matters worse, and new management and the coach handled the situation horribly.

      That situation was so poisoned they weren’t thinking about whether he could play or what they could use his contract for eventually. They wanted him out. They had already exiled him for the better part of a year (self inflicted or not) and he still wanted a chance to play because he thought he had something left (which is why he was pissed off to begin with playing behind Kanter, KOQ, and Willy). To exile him for another year if he could still play would just suck. Then we found out he out he can still play when healthy. After a rocky first couple of weeks of TOs, PFs, and missed shots because of rust, he played the best basketball he has in many years off the bench for Memphis.

    39. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      The Clippers should be able to dump Gallo pretty easily to free up two max slots.

      If the Knicks strike out on the major free agents but want to put the team in a position to compete, Gallo would not be the worst idea. He’s popular, loved NY, it’s only a 1 year deal so the cap space would be rolled over to the following year, and he might be willing to come back the following year as a cheaper veteran just to stay in NY.

    40. ptmilo

      i wonder if there’s a scientology message board out there in internet land where someone jumped in all “l ron is not only the most godlike omnipotent thetan we know him to be but he is also the world’s greatest sushi chef, piano tuner and closet organizer to ever live” and even some of the level 8 sycophants felt obligated to be like “well, there have been some pretty good piano tuners maybe walk it back a half step”

    41. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      I wish this forum had a “poll” feature so I could get a reading on the percentage of people here that were alive when Wilt was playing, let alone actually saw him play games when he still had a little something left in the tank. I saw the tail end of his career against some other really good Cs, but I didn’t see peak Wilt at the time Russell and the Celtics were great. That dude was a freak of nature even if it was a different game with fewer very tall players.

    42. ClashFan

      @42

      Gallo would not be the worst idea. He’s popular, loved NY, it’s only a 1 year deal so the cap space would be rolled over to the following year, and he might be willing to come back the following year as a cheaper veteran just to stay in NY.

      Now we’re talking! What first rounders do the Clips have going forward to potentially package with Gallo? Put out the For Rent sign!

    43. Brian Cronin

      The problem is that enough teams have cap space that there would be teams that would take Gallo just for nothing, without the Clippers having to include any real sweeteners.

    44. Owen

      I love Mitch. I am not one to stand in the way of Mitchlove. But some boundaries have to be drawn.

      It did send me down an interesting rabbit hole. It appears Bill Russell was up there with Wilt in terms of raw athleticism. Russell was, it appears, legitimately the second best high jumper in the United States in 1956 and seventh best in the world. He jumped 6-9 in competition.

      I suppose you won’t ever see big time college prospects doing track on the side but it would be interesting to see Mitch try the high jump.

      Found this clip of Russell jumping over a guy. Pretty fun.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=10&v=j2AlFrOj5Mc

    45. thenoblefacehumper

      Gallo would not be the worst idea. He’s popular, loved NY, it’s only a 1 year deal so the cap space would be rolled over to the following year, and he might be willing to come back the following year as a cheaper veteran just to stay in NY.

      If the Clips want to give us sweetener, sure. If not, we should save pretty much all of our cap space for deals that net us future assets.

      The scenario where we strike out is perfectly fine as long we don’t do something incredibly stupid. That’s the reality the Porzingis trade facilitated and that’s why I liked it so much. Of course, not doing something(s) incredibly stupid is much easier said than done with this team.

    46. ptmilo

      another guy who was a complete freak was young (pre nba pre injury pre weight gain) sabonis. he wasn’t a wilt-like athlete but he had an incredibly complete game. he was kinda what jokic would be if he could run and jump.

    47. swiftandabundant

      Yeah if we strike out in free agency, snatching up players like Gallo, good veterans who are on expiring deals, with maybe some future sweeteners thrown in for us (ie, future picks) would be a good move. It could help us “compete” next year while still rebuilding and plus those guys can be flipped at the trade deadline for more future assets potentially.

      I loved the Rooster so much when he was a Knick. Its too bad he’s had to deal with so many injuries in his career because he’s an exciting player when healthy.

      Anyone remember the 2010 game against Denver when Gallo battled Melo? This was the 2nd year of Dantoni, before the 2010 free agency. My buddy and I went to that game and it was insane!

    48. Brian Cronin

      The scenario where we strike out is perfectly fine as long we don’t do something incredibly stupid. That’s the reality the Porzingis trade facilitated and that’s why I liked it so much. Of course, not doing something(s) incredibly stupid is much easier said than done with this team.

      Which is why I didn’t like it quite as much. ;)

      Now, if they had under-the-table assurances from KD before doing the deal, then I was all in on the deal (A+++).

    49. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      If the Clips want to give us sweetener, sure. If not, we should save pretty much all of our cap space for deals that net us future assets.

      This would be a plan “B” or plan “C”.

      However, you can’t make the assumption that someone is going to just hand over some mildly bad contract with a good pick. Often, they are going to be offering a multi-year terrible contract if you want a decent pick. If you are the Nets, 3-4 years away from doing anything, and totally barren of picks, you don’t mind taking on a multi-year bad contract. It’s not going to impact anything you are doing. The guy may even be able to play a little even if overpaid. But if you are already have some good young players and you are trying to develop and add stars, you have to keep that cap space handy. The duration can be more important than the asset. I’d rather get him out in 1 year or maybe even bring him back cheaper the following. It depends on the details of what is actually available.

    50. Grocer

      Well, there’s no actual footage of Wilt darting out to block a 3-pointer…

      Didn’t he win Olympic gold in volleyball after retiring from the NBA? And some of the footage from his early career, dude was not a lumbering giant, he was fast.

      The scenario where we strike out is perfectly fine as long we don’t do something incredibly stupid.

      Everything Pills & Merry have said has made me feel good about this scenario. Everything Dolan has said since he started talking about it has filled me with dread.

    51. gransoporro

      another guy who was a complete freak was young (pre nba pre injury pre weight gain) sabonis. he wasn’t a wilt-like athlete but he had an incredibly complete game. he was kinda what jokic would be if he could run and jump.

      Sabonis was not a freak athletically, except for the speed of his hands. In fact he had a knee reconstructed in CCCP relatively early in his career, so I doubt he would run that fast or jump that much after.

      I saw him once in a game in the European Champion League blocking a shot with his right against the board, turn and catch the ball with his left still in the air, and then open the fast break once landed.

      Jokic is a good comparison, but Sabonis’ real limit was his character. He was bored playing, so you could see during the game thinking: “how can I spice this up? OK, I will go for blocks!” and start blocking shots only. Or shooting 3s, or make assists. Anything but buckets and rebounds: those were boring.

    52. geo

      Perry seems to be able to avoid making “incredibly stupid” moves thus far. His refusal to use analytics and difficulty evaluating talent are what’s most disconcerting to me.

      if vlade gets it, but, you don’t – that is disconcerting…

    53. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Perry seems to be able to avoid making “incredibly stupid” moves thus far. His refusal to use analytics and difficulty evaluating talent are what’s most disconcerting to me.

      The thing that worries me the most is the tendency to take fliers on scorers without giving enough consideration to efficiency or defense and a lot of the wacky lineup combinations that Fizdale comes up with.

    54. bobneptune

      If some of our doubting Thomases ever watched Russel and Wilt play in 1960 when they were both young you would never ever say Mitch is some sort of superior athlete. Ever

    55. Jack Bauer

      While I think Anthony Davis is a fantastic top 10 player in the league, I’m not so sure that pairing him with Kyrie and Durant is a very good fit. Talent wise that’s as good as any team’s “big three”, but it seems like a poor fit, particularly Davis and Durant. There is only one ball out there at a time and all three of these guys are used to it in their hands and a high usage rate.

      There are probably opinions/theories on how that would work, let me know.

      Then again it’s such a remote possibility of ever happening maybe it’s not worth spending the time analyzing it…..

    56. Grocer

      Perry seems to be able to avoid making “incredibly stupid” moves thus far. His refusal to use analytics and difficulty evaluating talent are what’s most disconcerting to me.

      From the article:

      “Analytics is a very important part to our overall scouting process and part of my philosophy,” Perry said in a video on MSG Networks’ website. “I like to refer to it as a tool in the toolbox.”

      The fuck are you talking about?

    57. Owen

      If some of our doubting Thomases ever watched Russel and Wilt play in 1960 when they were both young you would never ever say Mitch is some sort of superior athlete. Ever

      From what I read there are a lot of Paul Bunyan stories out there about Wilt’s athleticism that aren’t actually true. But yeah, you watch any footage of those guys in their early 20’s and it quickly becomes clear that Mitch is not the second coming.

    58. DS

      @61 – I remembered the article wrong (I read it in back in March). I should have said what I said about the team, not about Perry (although, I think the quote from the article is kind of lip service; he did draft Knox). Mea culpa.

      The article implies that Fizdale, Mills, and Madkins do not seem to use of analytics but that Perry: “has a brief background in the use of analytics, which is relatively strong compared to the rest of his staff. Perry has particularly used analytics as a factor in his decision making on draft night. He played an integral part in the selections of Fox and Victor Oladipo, looking to find a star to build around.”

    59. JK47

      It’s not real useful to compare Mitch to Wilt and Russell. They’re hardly even playing the same sport.

      Mitch is a plus-plus athlete even in the context of the modern NBA, and as such has a very high floor. He’s already a very effective player. He doesn’t need to be as good as Mount Rushmore-level players to be a great player. A normal development curve will result in many years of being in DPOY conversations, and it ain’t like the dude is a zero on offense either. Add a little offensive versatility and you’re looking at a very deadly player.

    60. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      @64

      +1 on that.

    61. KnickfaninNJ

      You can use analytics to lose too. If Perry understands analytics but the team doesn’t seem to be analytics driven in the conventional sense, maybe that is by design in a tanking year.

    62. thenoblefacehumper

      However, you can’t make the assumption that someone is going to just hand over some mildly bad contract with a good pick. Often, they are going to be offering a multi-year terrible contract if you want a decent pick.

      Well, it seems like there will be at least one expiring contract that will be dumped with sweetener.

    63. Name is Bron - James Bron

      If some of our doubting Thomases ever watched Russel and Wilt play in 1960 when they were both young you would never ever say Mitch is some sort of superior athlete. Ever

      LMAO..so what you’re saying is we should trust the judgment of a wide-eyed 10 year old Neptune? I’m sure to a kid Wilt looked larger than life in 1960 playing against scrubs like the ones in that comical Z-man video. The league was just starting to be integrated in the early 60’s and there were unofficial quotas on # of African-American players allowed on a team. Ever wonder how Wilt scored so much? A large part of it was his athleticism and strength but would it surprise you to learn there was just one other 7-footer in the league in his first year? And in only one season in Chamberlain’s career did more than half his opponents have a single 7-footer.

      Though obviously very athletic, Wilt’s power and size more than his athleticism was the hallmark of his game. He was a 7 footer w/incredible natural core strength who wasn’t competing against the likes of Chandler, Gobert, Capela in the early and mid-60s as just cited. It was like Mitch in that internet high school video.

      I’ll try this again. Mitch is fast, Mitch is long, and Mitch has great timing. Those 3 attributes are necessary but not sufficient for me to make my bold statement. What makes Mitch unique is his acceleration off the jump; it’s like he’s got rocket boosters attached. There was a play late last season where some scrub tried to drive past Mitch, he failed, threw the ball to a teammate who threw it back to him. Mitch was still covering the guy who went up for a jump shot. Mitch jumped after the guy had jumped yet Mitch hit his apex well before the shooter did. It was all documented on the slow motion replay. That one play crystallizes the gist of my argument. What matters is athleticism which translates to results not just general athleticism.

    64. Grocer

      The article implies that Fizdale, Mills, and Madkins do not seem to use of analytics

      I think Fiz has some sort of analytics background and people think he’s anti cause they ingore the context of “take that for data.” Mills, yeah man. Mills.

    65. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, should we even care if Mitch has more athleticism than whoever? I don’t think we’re signing Wilt in free agency, so it’s a discussion that really leads to nowhere right from the start.

      I think Perry is a smart guy, I don’t think he’s oblivious to what’s happening around the league in terms of how teams should try to play of what players to go after. My guess is still that with the Knox pick, he tried to hit a home run on a super raw prospect who could be shaped into a good player eventually, and one that would fit into the timeline of a team that was potentially looking forward to 3 or 4 more years of rebuilding. The same logic could be applied to the Mitch pick, as no one expected him to be ready to play until he had years of practice and training on his body, he just surprised everyone by how fast he started producing.

      It is scary when you look at the whole body of work, with Mudiay, DSJ, Knox etc because they all really are just inefficient scorers who can’t do anything else, but I’m willing to believe that they just went for potential home runs in what they knew was a lost season. What matters is the players they will acquire from now on, and how they use DSJ and Knox as assets if it comes down to it.

      I think it’s clear everyone is on the table for Davis and the focus is on building the big 3. I don’t necessarily think it’s a fail proof approach, but I also won’t complain about the Knicks having the insane collection of talent that’s Durant, Irving and Davis. For me all that matters is if that happens, and also if it doesn’t that they don’t fall in love with lesser veteran players and keep building slowly.

    66. MBunge

      I’ll try this again. Mitch is fast, Mitch is long, and Mitch has great timing.

      But can Mitch…you know…play basketball? That’s kind of important. I understand getting excited about a promising kid, especially given the Knicks track record of the last couple of decades, but there’s something non-rational about an analytics crowd going gaga over a 20-year-old who just averaged less than 21 minutes a game for a team that won 17 games.

      I mean, after muddling through much of the year Mitch looked like he might be a legit NBA big while playing non-competitive minutes as the Knicks went 3-8 to end the season. By all means, let’s pencil him in for the Hall of Fame.

      Mike

    67. vincoug

      If you think the Mitch hype here is based off the last 11 games of the season I don’t know what the fuck to tell you.

    68. JK47

      Can Mitch play basketball?

      Well, he averaged 12.8 points, 11.2 rebounds and 4.3 blocks (!) per 36 minutes, compiling a .692 TS% and .694 eFG% along the way. The latter two numbers would have led the NBA if Mitch qualified in terms of minutes. He had a 5.2 DBPM, that also would have led the league.

      Does that count as “playing basketball” or nah?

    69. Brian Cronin

      Can Mitch play basketball?

      Well, he averaged 12.8 points, 11.2 rebounds and 4.3 blocks (!) per 36 minutes, compiling a .692 TS% and .694 eFG% along the way. The latter two numbers would have led the NBA if Mitch qualified in terms of minutes. He had a 5.2 DBPM, that also would have led the league.

      Does that count as “playing basketball” or nah?

      Oh yeah, well, if Mitch is so good, then why didn’t the Knicks, the paragons of basketball intelligence, play him more?

    70. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Well, it seems like there will be at least one expiring contract that will be dumped with sweetener.

      If I were Dallas, I wouldn’t give up a nickel to move him. KP and Doncic are not even going to be peaking for another 3-5 years. They have no chance to contend next year no matter how good KP comes back, how much progress Doncic makes, and who they add as their 3rd major piece (assuming they can).

      Why give up anything unless you can get back some really good young core piece as part of some multi-move overall deal?

      I’d just keep him and wait for him to expire unless there was something really tantalizing available now and then I’d stretch him.

      The worst thing that could possibly happen with Lee happened (he got hurt and buried behind players being developed so no one knows if can even still play) and he’s still not a problem.

    71. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Mitch is freakish athlete and very long. That allows him to protect the paint and disrupt 3 point shooters. He has just enough skill in combination with those physical gifts to score very efficiently on lobs and put back offensive rebounds against some NBA teams.

      Any comparisons to all time great players are preposterous at this stage.

      If you put Mitch on one the top playoff teams now and he faced a high level offense and defense, they would run circles around him on one side and almost totally shut him down on the other.

      He has the potential and perhaps a high probability of becoming a very good two way impact player on a very good team. He has a million miles to go to be a great player.

    72. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

      Speaking of Dallas and Frank, I think this would be a good idea for both Dallas and Frank. Frank and KP were very productive together, Dallas has always been interested in Frank, and they have a smart coach that will use him correctly alongside a couple of guys that can score. They have no need to rush and can be patient with him.

      https://thesmokingcuban.com/2019/05/21/dallas-mavericks-speculation-frank-ntilikina-potential-target/

    73. Grocer

      But can Mitch…you know…play basketball?

      This is an excellently bad take. I’ve broken out all over in golf claps. At first I thought it was just a springtime alergy, but nah. Golf claps.

    74. Bruno Almeida

      I mean, there’s no way to even reply to a post like that. You guys are finding ways to have heated arguments about the one good thing we got the last 3 or so years, the one time where the guy is young / has a great contract / shows real promise / does that while producing real things at a basketball court on his minutes. All that while seemingly being a very nice kid and having a good work ethic.

      It really will be a long ass offseason.

    75. JK47

      I could see if Mitch was like Anthony Randolph, a guy who is an athletic freak who had no idea how to play and who delivered no tangible positives on the court. That’s a guy you have to hope and dream on.

      Mitch ain’t Anthony Randolph.

    76. Z-man

      From what I read there are a lot of Paul Bunyan stories out there about Wilt’s athleticism that aren’t actually true. But yeah, you watch any footage of those guys in their early 20’s and it quickly becomes clear that Mitch is not the second coming.

      No doubt, Owen. And if it weren’t for the footage, even the true stories wouldn’t be believed. But there’s LOTS of footage. Look at the third link I posted, which is mostly from Wilt’s college days. Sure, he’s playing against inferior competition, but look carefully at the shit he’s doing. All of that dominance (except the occasional goaltend) is transferable to today’s game. Look at the little things, like how he keeps the ball over his head on every rebound. That player would likely have been drafted over any player ever to come out of college in any era…except maybe Kareem and even that’s debatable. The only guy who might have been considered over him is Lebron James.

      That clip of Bill Russell is pretty revealing. Russell dribbles the length of the court at breakneck speed, takes off a half step inside the foul line, hurdles a guy, and drops it into the basket. But I guess that’s something you see every day in today’s NBA. Right.

      In the early 60’s, Wilt faced that insane monster athlete over 10 times every year. Wilt played close to 48 minutes in every one of those games and never fouled out in any of them (or any other game.) I don’t get how anyone that does enough research could be dismissive of those two guys as mere beneficiaries of a weaker era. They would have the same impact today as they did then. You don’t think Wilt could do what MVP Giannis is doing, or Russell could do what Draymond is doing? Please.

    77. DRed

      Russel was like 6’9″ 220 and barely shot 45% from the floor going up against guys who were physically inferior to him. Maybe he could get some run as a defensive/energy guy when he figured out modern offenses, but he couldn’t play at all on offense.

    78. bobneptune

      LMAO..so what you’re saying is we should trust the judgment of a wide-eyed 10 year old Neptune? I’m sure to a kid Wilt looked larger than life in 1960 playing against scrubs like the ones in that comical Z-man video.

      What are you like 12 years old? Wilt was the 1957 and 1959 Big 7 high jump champion at 6′ 6&3/4 when the WR was 7’1″ The notion he couldn’t compete with Capella, Tyson Chandler and Rudy Gobert is laughable. How about this video where at the age of 35 he utterly dismantles the arguably Greatest NBA Player of All Time Jabbar:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Un7DaNr3Zq4

      Yeah…. not athletic enough to play against Clint Fucking Capella…. Wilt would snap him in two.

      An the notion that he did all his work against plodding white guys is also laughable. Look at these guys he played on a nightly basis his entire career and tell me that they wouldn’t be dominant centers in today’s game. In 1965 there were 9 teams in the NBA and these guys played against each other every other night!:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm1-jzpr_hU

      And just for the record his last season at 36 he played all 82 games…. 43.2 mpg and had a ws/48 of .247 !!! Nahhhh…. not a great athlete……

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wm1-jzpr_hU

    79. bobneptune

      Russel was like 6’9? 220 and barely shot 45% from the floor going up against guys who were physically inferior to him. Maybe he could get some run as a defensive/energy guy when he figured out modern offenses, but he couldn’t play at all on offense.

      In this thread we learn Bill Russell was a poor man’s Marcus Camby…..

    80. Brian Cronin

      I think on the low end if he played today, Bill Russell would have a career like Ben Wallace or Dennis Rodman, which is basically a Hall of Fame career. That’s on the low end. On the high end, I think he would have adapted his game to the modern era so he would be almost unrecognizable to the Russell of the 1960s. It’s like how obviously pretty much every famous NBA player of the past would be shooting threes nowadays if they came up now. I mean, just to take a Knick legend, Patrick Ewing would probably be averaging six threes a game if the played in the NBA today.

      So I have no doubt that Bill Russell would be a dominant modern NBA player. Wilt, of course, is obvious. Wilt’s skills and height all translate wonderfully to the modern NBA.

    81. Ntilakilla

      @89

      Except Camby didn’t average 4.3 assists a game for his career like Russell did.

    82. Ntilakilla

      The closest comparison I can think of to Bill Russell in today’s game is Draymond Green. Both were leaders and cornerstones of great generational NBA dynasties who were among the most dominant defensive bigmen of their eras. Both were/are amazing passing big men criminally underrated by detractors because they don’t score pointzz or shoot a high FG percentage. God, I so want a great passing big to play for us one day.

    83. Z-man

      It’s also important to remember that back then, without the 3-pt shot, there was no spacing in the post. you didn’t have to worry that some journeyman was spotting up in the corner for a 36% 3-pointer. Big men would routinely get double-teamed.

    84. Brian Cronin

      It’s also important to remember that back then, without the 3-pt shot, there was no spacing in the post. you didn’t have to worry that some journeyman was spotting up in the corner for a 36% 3-pointer. Big men would routinely get double-teamed.

      There are so many different areas where the guys of the past wouldn’t just, like, give up on because things are different now. They would simply adjust to the modern style. There are certainly players who would have a harder time adjusting to the modern era than others, but guys like Russell wouldn’t have an issue. It’s the secondary rung players who would all be fucked. Not the legends of the game.

    85. Brian Cronin

      Look at a dude like Wayne Embry. You’re telling me Wayne Embry, a dude who was all about the pick and roll back in the day, wouldn’t be able to adjust to the modern game just because he’s short for a center? Come on, these guys were too talented. It’s just a different game. I mention Wayne Embry because he’s such a relatively obscure dude (I looked at the 1964 All Star Game to see who was one of the more obscure guys for modern fans who was still an All Star in multiple years).

      It’s the average players where the huge difference lies between the NBA of 1964 versus the NBA of 2019. The lesser guys definitely pale compared to nowadays. The stars would be stars in any time.

    86. bidiong

      As Jowels said: We’re in prime off-season mode.

      If you think Bill Russell and Wilt couldn’t translate… Get the F out of here.

      Mitch will make his lane and hopefully it will be in a Knicks uniform. Obviously if he becomes an all time great we can discuss this more but lots of us are getting ahead of ourselves.

    87. Grocer

      Does Wilt still hold the record for consecutive made baskets, or did that fall this year? Wilt was also dropping fadeaways before Dirk was born. People also forget that these games weren’t televised, so nut shots were still legal. I suspect Draymond would have done fairly well.

      Let’s also remember his central role in a Knicks tradition: his 100 pt game came against us.

    88. JK47

      This is a dumb argument. This is like saying “Babe Ruth was a big fat guy and all the home runs he hit were against guys throwing 88 MPH so he would have never been able to even touch Aroldis Chapman” or something like that. Sports get more difficult over time. Sure, Babe Ruth’s mind would have been blown by a 103 MPH fastball but if Babe Ruth was born in 1990 instead of 1897 or whatever he probably would have figured it out, because he had immense sports talent.

      Wilt was ahead of his time, he was a Ruthian player in that he was like 10 years ahead of everybody else. Of course he would have succeeded in any era. It’s just a useless and dumb argument to say “Well if Johnny Unitas stepped out of the time machine and tried to QB the Patriots he’d totes suck.”

    89. Z-man

      I think this is lots more fun (and appropriate) to talk about than “what’s the best episode of The Wire” or some shit like that. But hey, that’s just me!

      Brian, I agree. There are a host of guys who were stars back in the day whose games probably wouldn’t translate due to physical limitations (Bob Cousy and Bill Bradley are two quick examples I can think of). I think it’s fair to say that guys like Oscar and Petit would translate, but wouldn’t be quite as dominant as they were back then. And it’s dumb to say things like Elgin was better than LeBron.

      But the guys with elite physical tools/measurables and high IQs that were dominant back then would be just as great today if not greater. Wilt, Russell, West, Havlicek, Kareem, etc. were timelessly transcendent. And there are some guys that actually mignt have benefited from playing today: West, Jerry Lucas, etc. would have LOVED the 3-pt era.

      There were some extreme obstacles back then. Sports Medicine. Training regimens. Diet. Fitness technology. Footwear. Travel. Schedule. Coaching. Refereeing. Contract leverage. Lack of access to skill role models when growing up (e.g. LeBron and Kobe emulating MJ). College requirements. As Brian said, none of these stars would be the skinny guys who got 3-4 years of dictatorial coaching and who would be murdered if they tried to be hot dogs or took positional liberties. Players today complain about playing back to backs. Wilt played all 48 minutes in every game of a back-to-back-to-back-to-back-to-back! In Converse All-stars!

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