Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, July 15, 2018

Knicks Morning News (2018.05.04)

  • [ESPN] Sources: Fizdale agrees to deal to coach Knicks
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 5:49:20 PM)

    David Fizdale, after meeting with Knicks owner James Dolan on Thursday, has agreed to a four-year deal to become the team’s new head coach, sources told ESPN’s Adrian Wojnarowski.

  • [ESPN] With Fizdale hire, Knicks take another step in post-Phil plans
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 3:59:45 PM)

    The Knicks hired David Fizdale and now have a clear path forward after years of dysfunction. It’s another big step in a long rebuilding process for New York.

  • [NYDN] Knicks hired David Fizdale with one player in mind: LeBron James
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 10:05:51 PM)

    The hiring of David Fizdale was made with one player in mind and it’s not Kristaps Porzingis.

  • [NYDN] Knicks agree to hire David Fizdale as next head coach
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 10:03:06 PM)

    The Knicks have agreed to hire David Fizdale as their next head coach.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. Playoffs: LeBron James and Cavaliers Tighten Grip on Raptors
    (Friday, May 04, 2018 4:14:45 AM)

    The Cavaliers forward delivered 43 points and 14 assists in an effort so dominant that Toronto was being called LeBronto online.

  • [NYTimes] David Fizdale Is Said to Be Knicks’ Next Coach
    (Friday, May 04, 2018 2:09:29 AM)

    Fizdale, 43, replaces Jeff Hornacek and takes over a team that has just one playoff series win in the last 18 years.

  • [NYPost] Soon-to-be free agent LeBron James loves Knicks’ new coach
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 10:55:57 PM)

    Knicks brass has pointed toward the summer of 2019, when it plans to be ready to make a free-agent splash. But after Thursday’s hiring of former Memphis head coach and Heat assistant David Fizdale, the Knicks are prepared to open salary-cap space this summer in the unlikely event they get an inkling LeBron James has…

  • [NYPost] How Knicks fans grade the hiring of David Fizdale
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 10:14:26 PM)

    The Knicks hired former Grizzlies coach and Heat assistant David Fizdale on Thursday to be their next head coach after an extensive search. Knicks fans took to Twitter to express how pleased they were with the move, their displeasure it wasn’t Mark Jackson coming home and their doubt in the team’s ability to become a…

  • [NYPost] ‘Best coach on the market’: Praise pours in for David Fizdale
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 8:30:42 PM)

    New Knicks coach David Fizdale had a trio of gushing fans on ESPN’s studio show Thursday in Chauncey Billups, Paul Pierce and Jalen Rose. Even though Billups couldn’t remember team president Steve Mills’ last name, the former Knicks point guard said Fizdale was clearly the best choice. Billups is close to general manager Scott Perry…

  • [NYPost] David Fizdale the right coach for this Knicks rebuild
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 4:46:48 PM)

    The Knicks did the right thing Thursday. They hired the right man. That doesn’t fix everything. It doesn’t guarantee anything. But hiring David Fizdale is a step in the right direction, a big step. Fizdale alone doesn’t make them champions or even winners. But it puts them on the right path, points them in the…

  • [NYPost] Knicks reach deal with David Fizdale to be new coach
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 1:59:04 PM)

    On the three-week anniversary of Jeff Hornacek’s firing, the Knicks have agreed to terms in principle with a new coach — David Fizdale, an NBA source confirmed. The deal reportedly is for four years, according to ESPN. The Knicks will make an official announcement next week when they will hold a press conference. The 43-year-old…

  • [SNY Knicks] Relive David Fizdale’s infamous ‘take that for data’ speech
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 11:00:05 PM)

    The Knicks have reportedly hired David Fizdale to be their next head coach; relive his infamous ‘take that for data’ speech.

  • [SNY Knicks] Take that for data: Knicks players react to Fizdale reports
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 8:45:28 PM)

    Various Knicks players have taken to social media to react to the reports that the team has hired David Fizdale.

  • [SNY Knicks] David Fizdale reportedly agrees to become Knicks head coach
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 5:45:36 PM)

    The Knicks have hired David Fizdale to be their next head coach o a four-year deal according to reports.

  • [NY Newsday] Opinionated David Fizdale a refreshing change for Knicks
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 10:32:38 PM)

    David Fizdale isn’t afraid to speak the truth.

  • [NY Newsday] David Fizdale to become Knicks’ new head coach, source says
    (Thursday, May 03, 2018 9:12:00 PM)

    David Fizdale has agreed to a deal to become the Knicks’ new head coach, a league source confirmed to Newsday. He previously led the Memphis Grizzlies to the playoffs and won two titles as a Miami Heat assistant.

  • 81 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2018.05.04)

    1. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I hope Fizdale gives Ntilikina the Marc Gasol treatment. Fizdale said he told Gasol that he would be pulling him from games if he did not attempt 4 3s a night. He hadn’t taken 100 3PAs for his career before Fizdale and now he’s shooting close to 35% over his last 550 or so in two years. Shit. Give KP the Gasol treatment, too. Pull his ass from games if he’s not getting more dunks. And pull Tim Hardaway Jr from games while you’re at it.

      I already like this Fizdale guy. If he fixes the shot selection around here he’d actually be a coach that adds wins.

    2. alsep73

      I’d hoped Hornacek would modernize the offense once Phil was gone, but it was like he was infected with a case of the long twos. Fizz has a good track record on this from Miami and Memphis. Promising.

    3. alsep73

      And of course the tabloids are already framing the Fizz hire as a means towards getting LeBron. Which would have been an incredible longshot if KP was completely healthy, and is a mathematical impossibility for a season where KP will be missing and/or recovering from a serious injury. But Berman and Isola have to sell papers…

    4. MSA

      Not sure what to expect from Fitzdale.

      He mostly took the same team that won 42 games in 2016 and won 43 the next season. 2018 was a disaster in the short time he stayed there. I guess it was somewhat expected since Gasol is declining fast and Conley was hurt as always.

      I can’t help the feeling that it’s not very different from the Honacek hiring.

      But hey, it’s not Mark Jackson!

    5. mase

      Great hire!
      I think he may find some success with this young team that’s what I’m hoping at least. But from what I’ve read so far he wants to learn from previous mistakes and seems happy with a young rebuild which translates to “yes I’ll tank if I need too” and that’s why they gave him 4 years. Good job FO.

    6. d-mar

      A friend of a friend who is involved in Kawhi’s rehab said he wants to join either Philly or NY. And that the Spurs and Knicks have talked about a KP-Kawhi trade.

      If Kawhi is 100% healthy (big if) you’d really have to consider that deal, as he’s one of the top 5 players in the league. Downside is you’re trading a 20 year old for a 26 year old, and the Knicks are still gonna suck for a while in either case.

      Anyway, now that the coaching search is over, gives us all something to speculate about.

    7. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      I think Fizdale was their target all along and everything else was window dressing except for maybe Budenholzer.

      Unfortunately, I see nothing in Fizdale’s coaching record to think he has all the the attributes they said they were looking for (or that I want). His entire reputation as a top level coach comes from people he’s had relationships with.

      He’s not an advanced stats guy.
      He didn’t improve the Grizzlies in the first season and they were in a death spiral when he was fired.
      He fought with Gasol.

      The one thing I like about him is that I think he’ll hold players accountable and not take any BS.

      I suspect that what won him the job was that Budenholzer wanted more power in personnel decisions than Perry and Mills were willing to give him. That was one of his problems in Atlanta. According to one report Fizdale wants input but is willing to defer. Ironically, if anything, given our management, I’d rather have our coach have a lot of input as long as he’s competent at that too.

    8. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      If the Knicks would actually consider sending KP to the Spurs, we might as well send Frank and Dotson there too so I can become a Spurs fan for a few years like I was a Nuggets fan after the Melo trade.

    9. Brian Cronin

      Jokic’s agent says that if the Nuggets exercise their $1.6 million option for Jokic this season, which would make him an unrestricted free agent next season, that he will be less likely to re-sign with them. He wants them to pass on the option, which would make him a restricted free agent this season. What would you do if you were the Nuggets? You’d be looking at about a $20 million difference in salary this year, but you would control his next contract due to him being a restricted free agent (and obviously you would match any max offer he gets, which will presumably be a lot). Call their bluff and get him cheap this year or just lock him down now for a ton of money?

    10. ProjectKnicks

      I have a feeling Fizdale will bring what Woodson brought: a solid coach that will not make a difference.

      I will say two things:
      1. Most real change and success in NBA coaching has been achieved by white guys: Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, Greg Popovic, Mike D’antoni, Jerry Sloan, Chuck Daly, Larry Brown, Don Nelson, etc.

      2. I’m not a white guy – by any stretch of the imagination. I’m not black, either.

      Now, I’m not saying blacks can’t coach or are intellectually inferior. I think it has to do with fewer opportunities. It also has to do with a lower level of education when black candidates are considered among the pool of candidates.

      Does this prove anything about Fizdale? Nope.

      I just felt the need to present an honest perspective to counteract the affirmative-action bent present in the blog during the coach selection process, when people went as far as openly saying that selecting a black coach was a ‘bonus’ while omitting that it was also a bad decision from a statistical point of view.

    11. 2FOR18, understands math

      meh

      Re: KP for Kawhi – I’d do that in a second if Kawhi’s health checks out.

      Re: Jokic – I’d show him the money and lock him up long term.

      edit – glad I wasn’t here for the affirmative action threads – how many people did Jowles call a racist?

    12. ess-dog

      I think the Nuggs have to work out a reasonable handshake contract with Jokic – he’s the team’s star. They can figure it out with annual raises and such.

    13. ProjectKnicks

      Jokic’s agent says that if the Nuggets exercise their $1.6 million option for Jokic this season, which would make him an unrestricted free agent next season, that he will be less likely to re-sign with them. He wants them to pass on the option, which would make him a restricted free agent this season. What would you do if you were the Nuggets?

      I’d do what the Knicks should have done with Melo: sign and trade him. Get whatever you can get out of him.

    14. lavor postell

      @Strat

      How do we know Fizdale isn’t an advanced stats guy? He turned the Grizz from a heavy midrange/post up team into a slightly above league average 3PAr team in one year with very minimal roster turnover. That indicates some level of understanding of the math behind the game.

      Fiz also has, by all accounts, been key in the development of young talent in ATL (Teague, Horford, Josh Smith who was actually ok once upon a time!) and in MIA where he was credited with overseeing Bosh’s adjustment into a stretch 4 and improving his defense.

      Also Budenholzer almost certainly wanted input with personnel, something he’s likely to get in MIL where their FO is kind of a mess due to a weird ownership setup. As great a coach as he is, his personnel moves were pretty bad.

      @BC

      You give Jokic his money now. Next summer, if he’s a UFA, there are a ton of teams with max space. You don’t want to piss him off by having him play for relative pennies for an entire year and then hand him all control in deciding where he wants to play for the next 4-5 years.

    15. ProjectKnicks

      Fiz also has, by all accounts, been key in the development of young talent in ATL (Teague, Horford, Josh Smith who was actually ok once upon a time!)

      it seems Horford has been developed by every Knicks coaching candidate. Last week, his development was attributed to Budenholzer. this week it’s Fizdale.

    16. lavor postell

      Budenholzer modernized his game. His developmental years in working on individual skills happened under our very own Mike Woodson who had Fizdale on his staff as a development coach.

      Multiple coaches can help develop a player throughout their careers. It’s not uncommon.

    17. ProjectKnicks

      Budenholzer modernized his game. His developmental years in working on individual skills happened under our very own Mike Woodson who had Fizdale on his staff as a development coach.

      Multiple coaches can help develop a player throughout their careers. It’s not uncommon.

      The way the info is presented does not make that very clear, though – for obvious reasons. And that’s my point: when people were saying Budenholzer was the best candidate, they said he was responsible for Horford’s transformation into a ‘star’. Now, his development (‘formation’?) is due to Fizdale, who just happened to be working for woodson at the time. Maybe he had something to do with Horford, maybe not. But the speculation is presented as a fact. Maybe it was Woodson! Maybe it was Fizdale. Most likely Horford was just a good player by the time they worked with him – maybe it was his coach with the Florida Gators who really made a difference!

    18. Knick fan not in NJ at this time

      Jokic may want the Nuggets to not exercise the option because then he will get some sort of long term contract right away, instead of risking an injury or a down year next year which reduces his ability to get a good contract. If that’s the case, and the Nuggets want to keep him, they should consider not exercising the option, but instead find a way to get him to sign a little below market on a long term deal in return for enabling the long term deal by declining the option.

      They should also explore what the trade market would be for him if they exercise the option. Some capped team might love to get him at a low salary and then be able to use Bird rights to sign him a year from now.

    19. lavor postell

      Also I mixed up Teague and Joe Johnson lol. JJ’s playmaking really spiked in ATL.

    20. lavor postell

      @17

      I’m not really sure what your point is. Fizdale has been credited with development work by multiple sources. If you want to argue with Spoelstra and Wade saying that on the record go for it.

      He began his professional career assisting in the HEAT’s video room during the 1997-98 season. Among his current responsibilities, Fizdale will be assisting in the areas of player development, scouting, game preparation and other duties assigned by Head Coach Erik Spoelstra. In addition to directing players through individual workout sessions, Fizdale has served as Miami’s head coach in the 2010 and 2012 NBA Summer Leagues.

      ………………

      Fizdale returned to Miami prior to the 2008-09 season after spending four seasons (2004-08) as an assistant coach with the Atlanta Hawks where he played an instrumental role in the development of their young players.

      http://www.nba.com/coachfile/david_fizdale/

      That’s from his profile when he was on the Heat. Yeah, Woodson may have had a hand in it as it’s possible Budenholzer or Donovan at Florida deserve more credit than anybody. There’s enough evidence, though, to suggest that Fizdale’s been seen as a plus development guy as he’s come up through the ranks.

    21. mase

      You don’t sign and trade jokic, give him his $ since he is asking for it and lock up one of the best young bigs in the game. Easy peasey!

      KP for Kwahi is not Easy. Spurs would want firsts included and we can’t afford to trade with them.

    22. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      How do we know Fizdale isn’t an advanced stats guy? He turned the Grizz from a heavy midrange/post up team into a slightly above league average 3PAr team in one year with very minimal roster turnover. That indicates some level of understanding of the math behind the game.

      I read somewhere that he’s willing to listen to the stats guys in the organization, but not the kind of coach that’s pouring over numbers looking for small mathematical edges.

      The one example I saw was related to giving players time off. I think some of the stats guys recommended that he play the star players in a game prior to the playoffs.. I think the idea was that the data suggested that reducing minutes was superior to giving them the game off in terms of keeping them sharp. So he did it.

    23. ProjectKnicks

      @17

      I’m not really sure what your point is. Fizdale has been credited with development work by multiple sources. If you want to argue with Spoelstra and Wade saying that on the record go for it.

      My point is that people are quick to attribute things to their favorite candidate/coach without mentioning that that’s just speculation on their part.
      I offered Horford as a clear example of it: some people here gave the credit to Budenholzer without mentioning fizdale’s contribution. some, like you, give credit to Fizdale without mentioning Budenholzer or Woodson. That is my point.

    24. ProjectKnicks

      The key question regarding Fizdale’s hiring; what is he expected to do in New York?

      should he tank and look horrendous as a coach, improving draft position?
      should he try to ‘win’ with this bad roster, just like Hornacek, possibly endangering a good picking position in the draft?

      Tough decisions…

    25. lavor postell

      I read somewhere that he’s willing to listen to the stats guys in the organization, but not the kind of coach that’s pouring over numbers looking for small mathematical edges.

      That’s a good thing, right? I’m genuinely asking. If he’s willing to listen to the stats guys I think that a positive, especially if it can then be tracked to leading him to make smarter decisions.

      I don’t know how many coaches are poring over data themselves. I think they probably have some basic, overarching strategies based on data, but I imagine specific are brought to their attention from the team’s stats guys and from there it’s up to them to tailor game plans around it.

      We’re working on a small sample with Fiz, but I think increasing Conley’s usage, starting JaMychal Green at the 4 and moving Z-Bo to the bench and getting Gasol to extend his range to beyond the arc instead of 20 feet are positive signs.

      I’m sure I’m looking for the positives here, because I am unfortunately a fan of this team, but it seems like the signs indicate a guy who is experienced in development and at the very least is open to making decisions guided by stats and data.

    26. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      May 3, 2018 at 2:01 pm
      Stratomatic –

      You will enjoy this. Using computers to beat the ponies to the tune of billions.

      https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2018-05-03/the-gambler-who-cracked-the-horse-racing-code

      Owen,

      Thanks. That article was forwards to me by multiple people. I guess I have a reputation. lol

      Benter is well known to serious players in the game. He’s a legend. He has a huge “math” edge over people like me, but I have my own database I use to study the game and develop my own metrics. It changed things for me. I spent the first 36 years learning about the game through trial and error and experience. You learn important things that way, but it takes a long time because sometimes you have to unlearn lessons that turned out to be incorrect. Now, when I have a question, I look at 4 years of data and in the short time it takes me to write the query I know the answer. Also, all that experience comes in handy in knowing what I should be looking for.

    27. lavor postell

      I offered Horford as a clear example of it: some people here gave the credit to Budenholzer without mentioning fizdale’s contribution. some, like you, give credit to Fizdale without mentioning Budenholzer or Woodson. That is my point.

      I mean, we hired Fizdale. I’m talking about Fizdale. I don’t think saying he helped in Horford’s development should lead somebody to believe I’m crediting him for everything Horford’s done in his career and that Budenholzer shouldn’t get any credit, nor should any of his other coaches nor should Al himself! All of those can be true! I wasn’t trying to give Fizdale all the credit and Bud none.

      Bud would have been the top guy for me, but I liked Fiz. He was the guy I’d have picked after Bud. So generally I’m pleased with this hire and think there’s a chance he can be better than our last few coaches.

    28. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      The greatest hoax perpetrated by liberarianism is convincing (white) people that being fat or bald is the same kind of disadvantage as being black in a country

      It sure is if you are trying to get laid. :-)

      Sorry to drag this topic to another thread. I hope we can let it go after this. I’d [refer talking Knicks. But since this is a sensitive subject, I don’t want my thoughts misunderstood.

      I did not say being short, fat, bald, ugly, (and I did include disabled which can be much worse) etc.. is the same at being born black in this country. I said my vision of justice in this country would take longer because it does not include two wrongs making a right even when we are trying to achieve a greater good. I don’t believe “the ends justify the means” is a very good approach in politics or life.

      My point on everything else was simply that life is not fair. Loads of people are born with advantages and disadvantages. Some ARE bigger disadvantages than being black. No matter what hand you are dealt you should be trying to make the best of it, period. That’s all I meant.

      I don’t want a bunch of rules to make sure there’s at least 1 short fat bald Asian guy with a limp and a stutter on the Supreme Court because people don’t give them a fair shake. I want people to look beyond those physical qualities to what’s important and let the results fall where they may.

      I was also obviously correct that Fisdale was at no disadvantage getting the job because his skin is darker than Blatt and Budenholzer. That’s the good news. Now we have to figure out if they made the right choice.

    29. Frank

      I think Fizdale is an analytics guy. Insisted on Gasol shooting 3’s. Helped with Bosh’s development into a stretch 4/5. Coached Battier who was as analytics-focused a guy as there is. Plus the Heat have always been known to be analytics focused in terms of injury prevention, measurement of fitness, etc. You have to figure that was an organizational priority for the Heat, and if you believe Mills/Perry and their description of what they want to do going forward, it seems likely we will be a much more modern team than before.

    30. ProjectKnicks

      I don’t want a bunch of rules to make sure there’s at least 1 short fat bald Asian guy with a limp and a stutter on the Supreme Court because people don’t give them a fair shake. I want people to look beyond those physical qualities to what’s important and let the results fall where they may.

      I agree 100%.

      All decisions should be based on merit, not skin color. Too many people afraid of being fair!

    31. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      We wanted anyone but Mark Jackson, and we got anyone but Mark Jackson. Fiz probably would have been my third choice, though given stories about Blatt not being ready for prime time, second was a close call. I doubt he’ll remake the franchise the way Budz could have, but it’s another step forward from the Triangle, so whatever.

      Now we need to nail the draft pick, and NOT trade for Kawhi, whose injury may be career ending.

    32. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Too many people afraid of being fair!

      Oh please. Like anything about the African American experience in this country is or has ever been “fair”.

    33. kevin5318

      I don’t think Fiz even needs to be an analytics guy to be successful coach(if he is then that’s great). Run a modern offense, play/develop the young guys, don’t piss off KP and the rest will fall into place.

    34. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      Run a modern offense, play/develop the young guys, don’t piss off KP and the rest will fall into place.

      Agreed, to a certain extent. That won’t get us a championship, but competence would be a nice look after the last decade or so. I mean, I agree with Strat that not every move Phil made was terrible, but it’s a very mixed bag at best. Noah, DRose, the Melo megamax – there’s a lot to hate. Perry’s mistakes have been competitively modest – Willy, Mudiay. We can survive those to be an OK team, at least. Fiz is another move that is probably good, but at worst isn’t likely to be very bad.

    35. Jack Bauer

      By all accounts Fizdale is at least a competent coach with experience on the bench next to a good head coach in Spoelstra. My hope is that management gives him more than 18-24 months before firing him and starting over yet again. Building some continuity with the young guys for a change would really help. We’ll see.

      That Boston Philly series is fun to watch. There are a lot of talented exciting young players on the floor and both teams are well coached. Very impressed with Jayson Tatum’s game. He looks good on both sides of the ball and does not play like a rookie. Another genius move by Ainge to trade down and still get his guy. Love seeing ex Knick Shane Larkin getting burn in the playoffs, he actually looked ok. TJ McConnel had a very nice game too for the Sixers.

    36. ProjectKnicks

      Oh please. Like anything about the African American experience in this country is or has ever been “fair”.

      Insisting that every decision be made on merit guarantees the greatest degree of fairness for everyone. We should all want that.

    37. MSA

      If he’s willing to listen to the stats guys I think that a positive, especially if it can then be tracked to leading him to make smarter decisions.

      I think we are the only stats guys the Knicks have.

    38. chrisk06811

      I think the KP for Leonard thing is bullshit. We’d have to make up $14M in salary to make the deal work. who are we going to give them that would possibly make them OK w/ the deal? They don’t want Hardaway.

      Best I can see to close to acceptable is KP, Frank, Kanter (only if he opts in and is expiring) and Dotson for Leonard and Danny Green. For some reason, the trade machine says green can’t be traded; I don’t really care why because we’re not doing the deal. We would have to give up everything else of value we have. And, SA would have to be OK with the best asset from us being out for most / all next year.

    39. 2FOR18, understands math

      “The greatest hoax perpetrated by liberarianism is convincing (white) people that being fat or bald is the same kind of disadvantage as being black in a country”

      Whoever said that doesn’t know anything about libertarians; this person only knows the false caricature (the evil, monocle wearing old white man with a factory run by child slave labor) of a libertarian.

    40. thenamestsam

      All decisions should be based on merit, not skin color.

      The problem is that intrinsic in this comment is the assumption that it’s possible to discern “merit” independent of skin color in a world where being white confers massive advantages.

    41. 2FOR18, understands math

      The problem is that intrinsic in this comment is the assumption that it’s possible to discern “merit” independent of skin color in a world where being white confers massive advantages.

      That could just be projection on your part. Maybe it’s impossible for you to make an objective, merit based decision, but that doesn’t mean some others can’t. When you look at people as individuals, rather than as members of a certain group, it is very possible. (That’s one of those evil libertarian ideas by the way – that you shouldn’t collectivize people.)

    42. Hubert

      I love Kawhi Leonard, but if we acquire him we have to shift towards trying to win in the next 3-4 years, and I just don’t think that’s something we can do. We’d have Kawhi and a bunch of players around him who aren’t good enough. We’d have to give up assets to dump bad contracts. We’d have to flip players like Frank and Dotson for more expensive players who can contribute now.

      Kawhi >>>>>> KP (I could add 100 >’s). But we’re on a 22 year old player’s timeline right now. Not a 26 year old superstar’s.

      The best path for the Knicks seems pretty clear to me:

      1. Nail this draft pick
      2. Be terrible next year
      3. Do not under any circumstances give Porzingis a 5 year 25% of the cap contract extension
      4. Nail next year’s draft pick

      And go from there.

    43. geo

      happy friday everyone…

      hey, so when can we all start guessing on our draft choice, and, most importantly – how many games will we win next year…i’m feeling a bit optimistic at the moment and will go with a grand total of 32 wins next year…good for picking 10 to 12 at 2019’s draft…

    44. Hubert

      hey, so when can we all start guessing on our draft choice

      the lottery is may 15. things will pick up from there.

      right now, I’d assume Collin Sexton or Miles Bridges at 10 because of Dolan’s razor. But after Fizdale, I don’t know. Maybe we can get Wendall Carter or Mikal Bridges at 9. They are the Fizdale’s of the lottery.

      Doncic at 2 is the Budz of the draft.

    45. 2FOR18, understands math

      I’ve never seen the board have this much of a consensus on anything = Mikal Bridges or W Carter would seemingly make everyone happy, and Sexton or Miles Bridges would make everyone cry.
      Also, winning the lottery and ending up with Doncic would make half of us keel over in ecstasy.

      Add to that the utter mehness of the new coach, and there’s nothing to argue about except politics.

    46. Hubert

      Aside…

      What’s the deal with Ayton? Somehow, he is:

      a) the consensus best prospect in the draft
      b) generating little excitement

      When was the last time so many people wanted to win the 2nd pick in the lottery more than the first? I think you have to go back to Michael Olawokandi to find a similar situation.

    47. thenamestsam

      That could just be projection on your part. Maybe it’s impossible for you to make an objective, merit based decision, but that doesn’t mean some others can’t. When you look at people as individuals, rather than as members of a certain group, it is very possible. (That’s one of those evil libertarian ideas by the way – that you shouldn’t collectivize people.)

      Is it just a coincidence then that all the “objective” merit based decisions being made out there in the world keep leading to a world where white men have the overwhelming majority of the money and power?

    48. hoolahoop

      I’ve never played for Fizdale or any of the othe coaches considered by the knicks, so I don’t know much about them – like everyone else here.
      Here’s what I like about the pick.
      – Straight talker. No BS. And sounds like he doesn’t take shit.
      – He’s from the Riley-Spoelstra tree. Expect the team to be in fantastic physical condition, beat everyone to loose balls, and play tough defense.
      – He’s a culture guy.
      – He loves the 3.
      – He’s young.
      – I’m not necessarily against giving former pro’s a fast track to being head coach, but a guy that works his way up from a nothing and climbs the ladder step by step to HC is doing something right.
      – And “Take that for data” ranks top 5 NBA quotes.

    49. Owen

      Ayton’s inability to block shots is puzzling. His defensive instincts don’t seem to be there yet. I thought he might a Kevin Willis T-Rex type but it turns out his wingspan is 7’6. I don’t know why I think he’ll be underwhelming but I just have that fear.

      But you got to be realistic. We aren’t getting him or Doncic.

    50. geo

      I’ve never played for Fizdale or any of the othe coaches considered by the knicks, so I don’t know much about them – like everyone else here.
      Here’s what I like about the pick.
      – Straight talker. No BS. And sounds like he doesn’t take shit.
      – He’s from the Riley-Spoelstra tree. Expect the team to be in fantastic physical condition, beat everyone to loose balls, and play tough defense.
      – He’s a culture guy.
      – He loves the 3.
      – He’s young.
      – I’m not necessarily against giving former pro’s a fast track to being head coach, but a guy that works his way up from a nothing and climbs the ladder step by step to HC is doing something right.
      – And “Take that for data” ranks top 5 NBA quotes.

      nailed it hoolahoop…plus don’t forget – if the knicks ever do a karaoke event – fiz can do a perfect rendition of wild thing and funky cold medina…

      Ya know what I’m sayin
      That Medina’s a monster, y’all

    51. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Ayton has historically low block and steal rates for a top flight center prospect and he’s going to get absolutely roasted in the pick and roll at the next level. That, combined with the fact that he’s not much a 3 ball shooter leaves me skeptical as his athletic ability, while prodigious, isn’t gonna make up for his lack of secondary skills in the NBA. That said, his offensive game outside his 3 ball is extremely polished, but he looks more like a more athletic LMA w bad defense than Tim Duncan or Karl Towns.

      Again, anybody who doesn’t have Doncic at #1 is simply not paying enough attention. His stats are unprecedented for a guy his age. His only question mark is his “athletic ability” but he’s actually quite strong and can build muscle quite easily and is v highly developed in his fine motor ability. So it’s more a foot speed and leaping question than an overall athletic ability question. And his defense is actually underrated. You just can’t say no to a guy that complete at that young an age–he gets comparisons to Larry Bird for a reason, and not just because he’s white.

    52. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      @52

      Ayton has much more range and a very diverse offensive game out to mid-range (with some adequate 3 ball shooting in small samples but it’s not gonna be a strength for a while) than Kanter ever had or will have. Hes not as good of a rebounder as Kanter but he’s still v good. Hes not the worst defender like Kanter is. With Kanter the problem is both slow footedness and an inability to read pnr coverage, Ayton is more of a motor (a general issue w him) and mental issue, though he has only average foot speed as well. I think he’s going to be bad but not horrible on the defensive end. More like early Towns without the blocks.

    53. Grocer

      Insisting that every decision be made on merit guarantees the greatest degree of fairness for everyone. We should all want that.

      My cousin was up for a promotion of sorts, to a liason position. He (white dude) got passed over and a black person got the job. He was incensed, claimed he was discriminated against, it was affirmative action, because he was technically more qualified. My cousin lacks the self-awareness necessary to understand that he’s an asshole. 100% pedantic jerk, 100% of the time. Doesn’t ‘play politics’ and disdains those who are connected that way. Basically he was completely unqualified for that job. I think about that story every time someone brings up how everything should be merit based. Well, that story and the fact that ignoring the effects of racism is one of the best ways to ensure racism continues having these massive negative effects.

      A qualified black guy got a job over a couple qualified white guys. Even before they hired Fizdale people were talking about race as a deciding factor just because he was in the running and some people made a (legit) big deal out of a FO run by two black guys. But there’s no actual indication race had anything to do with this hire, and we don’t know what the deciding factors, which merits so to speak, were the relevant ones. Maybe Budz wasn’t enough of a team player. Maybe Blatt wasn’t convincing. Maybe being black was a relevant factor, maybe they wanted someone with a specific experience and perspective, and that would also be a merit based factor.

      My cousin still thinks an injustice was done to him. He’s still a complete asshole. He still doesn’t understand that his narrow vision of what the relevant factors were was wildly wrong.

    54. nicos

      Ayton is also 2 inches taller than Kanter and can, you know, actually jump.

      Doncic’s three point shooting worries me- all of the top tier guys in the NBA are either great athletes/physical freaks or lights out shooters- he’s neither. I think he’ll be very good regardless but I can’t see superstardom for him without really improving from three. Manu wouldn’t have been Manu without people respecting his three point shot. Doncic isn’t going to shoot .600 from two point range in the NBA. I’d still love him on the Knicks though!

    55. JK47

      I dunno, seems like Kanter and Ayton are more similar than they are different. Efficient scorers, strong rebounders, poor rim protectors, terrible in pick and roll defense. There are some differences around the edges but I could see Ayton being a similar player in terms of impact.

    56. DRed

      Ayton apparently didn’t play center on defense at arizona. So he might be a better shot blocker than the stats suggest. But every scouting report I’ve read on him says that he gets lost on defense.

    57. Ntilakilla

      Now, I’m not saying blacks can’t coach or are intellectually inferior. I think it has to do with fewer opportunities. It also has to do with a lower level of education when black candidates are considered among the pool of candidates.

      Does this prove anything about Fizdale? Nope.

      I just felt the need to present an honest perspective to counteract the affirmative-action bent present in the blog during the coach selection process, when people went as far as openly saying that selecting a black coach was a ‘bonus’ while omitting that it was also a bad decision from a statistical point of view.

      But how do you know Fizdale has a lower level of education than any other coach he’s been chosen over? The guy played college basketball, paid his dues as an assistant for years, and even was an NBA level head coach. He seems as comparably qualified to me as anyone else being considered for the job.

    58. Ntilakilla

      I’m not necessarily against giving former pro’s a fast track to being head coach, but a guy that works his way up from a nothing and climbs the ladder step by step to HC is doing something right.

      It could be me but I don’t think Fizdale played much, if any, professional basketball. He finished college ball at San Diego in 1996 and was an assistant coach over there by 1998. I wouldn’t say assistant coaching for around 18 years at various levels before getting a HC job is being placed on a “fast track.”

    59. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      I’m starting to warm up to Miles Bridges a little. He’s 3rd on my list after Carter and Mikal, but now that I’m feeling OK about him, I feel sure we are going to come away with a good player. Maybe our scouts like someone even better than that.

    60. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      @54

      Loads of people that don’t get “the job” think it was because they were black, white, Hispanic, a woman, disabled, physically unappealing etc.. Sometimes they are right. Most of the time it’s easier to blame the system than to admit to yourself that maybe you weren’t the most qualified or didn’t present yourself well (my poor younger brother is an Asperger patient and is almost unemployable even though he has a college degree).

      There is no perfect system. Even tests for city, state, and federal jobs have issues.

      I look at this way.

      Mills and Perry were faced with a decision to hire a coach. If they didn’t hire based on merit, it would eventually impact them negatively (if you don’t hire the best guy you aren’t going to get the best possible results). I think they hired exactly who they though was best for the job. If more people understood that their own prejudices will eventually bite them in the ass, there would be less of it.

    61. hoolahoop

      Anyone who’s white and has experienced reverse racism knows how infuriating and unfair it is. Imagine experiencing that everyday, everywhere. Walk into a grocery store, all eyes are on you. Go for a job interview, deck is stacked against you. Pulled over by a cop . . .

      Racism is ignorance.
      Treating anyone poorly is a reflection of our own insecurities.

    62. Bruno Almeida

      I agree, except that no white person will ever truly understand it on an experience level since reverse racism doesn’t exist.

    63. Ntilakilla

      I just hate a lot of what is being assumed about the Fizdale hiring here because it poorly assesses the situation, IMO. Fizdale is a very qualified head coach with credentials that put him on par with any other coach – black or white – during this job search. You can easily make a case that he belongs in the discussion without having to engage in a debate about the merits of affirmative action hiring policies. He was as, if not more, qualified to assume the Grizzlies job than Jeff Van Gundy or Mike Fratello before they got their first hiring opportunities. And his work in Memphis, despite the way it ended there, did accomplish positive things with what was an aging and limited roster previously known for playing an old-fashioned style. Go watch this film from The Knicks Wall and see why Mills/Perry would hire him to develop young Frank or even Mudiay.

    64. kevin5318

      I like the idea of Knox and Miles more than Mikal only because of their playmaking/scoring potential.

      Not saying I would take them over Mikal right now but a lot could change after our scouts see them at the combine and in workouts.

    65. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Didn’t Fizdale lose his job because Marc Gasol gave him the petulant-overrated-pseudo-star treatment just before mailing it in for the worst Grizzlies season since he joined the league?

      I’m failing to see how Fizdale is any worse than any of the other candidates. He’s still inheriting a team with almost nothing of value except intact draft picks. Truly, who gives a fuck, as long as he exclusively plays rookies and other youths, all-out tanks when appropriate, and doesn’t alienate the truly-good players, aka not 33-year-old Marc Gasol on a max contract?

    66. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Also, “Asperger’s patient?” Da fuq?

    67. kevin5318

      @65 This whole thing is silly since we we interviewed four white guys for the job.

    68. Ntilakilla

      @65 This whole thing is silly since we we interviewed four white guys for the job.

      Which really reveals the soft racism of anyone who thinks the main reason he was chosen was due to his race.

    69. hoolahoop

      The knicks should absolutely select the head coach based on merit, and hopefully they did.

      Closer to home, the comments in this forum, virtually unanimously, reflect a high level of character.

    70. Grocer

      Which really reveals the soft racism of anyone who thinks the main reason he was chosen was due to his race.

      Yep. And the desire of the tabloids to stir shit at every opportunity, even if they have to invent it.

    71. MSA

      since reverse racism doesn’t exist

      you’re right.

      There is only racism.

      No need to make fancy words when the original work both ways.

    72. 2FOR18, understands math

      @68 I admire how you can use so many words to say the same thing I said in one word (meh) about the coaching hire.

      @ Brian – why was my post disappeared?

    73. 2FOR18, understands math

      I agree that Mikal projects as a 2. I’d love to see him and Frank in the backcourt with KP protecting the rim. All we’d need is a Pippen type play making 3 to be an interesting team.

    74. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      We draft Carter this year and then Nassir Little or Jarred Vanderbilt next year and we’ll be S E T defensively

      Mikals good too but a tier below Carter imo

    75. 2FOR18, understands math

      To me, Doncic, Trae Young and Mikal, in that order, are the ideal players for today’s game. If they’re all gone, I’d be happy with Carter, Bagley or Robinson

    76. Stratomatic "Porzingis, Ntilikina, and one of the Bridges will take us to the promised land"

      Also, “Asperger’s patient?” Da fuq?

      I assume you know what Asperber’s is? If not, look it up.

      My brother has an above average IQ and finished college. Despite that, he is essentially unemployable because on any interview his lack of social skills more than negate his intellect and college degree even for jobs that he’s fully capable of doing.

      Point being, what do his social skills have to do with his ability to do some menial tasks for which he is the most qualified candidate and can fully handle?

      IMO, absolutely nothing!

      In his case, he’s not judged by the color of skin. He’s judged by his awkwardness and inability to make eye contact.

      But it’s all the same kind of BS.

      The prejudices and ignorance of people hurt his ability to get a job.

      IMO, that doesn’t mean we need to give him a job over someone more qualified than him because he was dealt a rough hand. It means we have to teach people so they aren’t ignorant and prejudiced.

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