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Sunday, August 20, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.08.02)

  • [SNY Knicks] Former Knicks assistant Dan D’Antoni gives high praise to Sessions
    (Tuesday, August 01, 2017 12:40:13 PM)

    Former Knicks assistant coach Dan D’Antoni says it is about time the Knicks took a shot on PG Ramon Sessions, per The Post’s Marc Berman.

  • [NYPost] Carmelo Anthony getting recruited by another Trail Blazer
    (Tuesday, August 01, 2017 8:16:51 PM)

    BALTIMORE — The Mayor of Baltimore says Carmelo Anthony would be “an asset” for any NBA team and Trail Blazers shooting guard Evan Turner believes that includes Portland. Turner appeared at Coppin State for the Anthony-sponsored “Basketball Tournament,” rooting on the alumni team from Ohio State (his alma mater) in the semifinals Tuesday. The Blazers…

  • [NYPost] One Knick knows Porzingis has made peace with team
    (Tuesday, August 01, 2017 4:54:55 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis is content, working tirelessly and just fine being a Knick. So reports Mindaugas Kuzminskas, the Knicks’ 6-foot-9 young forward playing in the European Championship who attended his April exit meeting with ousted Phil Jackson. Kuzminskas and Lithuania will host Porzingis’ Latvian squad this weekend in an exhibition game. With both countries looking to…

  • [NYPost] Beyoncé could become Carmelo’s new boss
    (Tuesday, August 01, 2017 11:50:12 AM)

    If Carmelo Anthony’s wish is granted, he will be a member of the Rockets by the time the 2017-18 NBA season tips off. And a potential new investor in the team would know Anthony’s game well, given how frequently she is courtside at Madison Square Garden. Citing “people familiar with the matter,” Bloomberg reported Tuesday…

  • 81 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.08.02)

    1. Zanzibar

      Everyone’s stoked about Zhou Qi? What if I told you there’s a player less than 25yo who played a total of NBA 234 minutes last season and posted these stats: bpm=3.4, WS/48=.195, WP48=.249. However, those 234 minutes are his total NBA minutes and that was his rookie season. His name is Shawn Long, one of those throw in players in a direct NY-Houston Melo deal.

      Hartenstein was rated #18 on one draft board at one stage. SF Uthoff wasn’t bad in his rookie year. Maybe a straight up deal for Anderson, Hartenstein, Long, Qi, Uthoff, Taylor, 2020 pick isn’t *that* terrible on its face. The real problem would be the center position, just like SG, would be clogged (KP, Willy, Noah, Hartenstein, Long) so not sure how we would know how valuable any of those guys are.

      The logic of that deal would be we might as well just load up on bad contracts which expire in 3 years so long as we get a lot of prospects, play them and receive lottery picks. It would also prevent us from just spending cap because it’s there, much like the bad Timmy signing which arguably may be as bad as Noah signing (Noah actually had much better bpm than Timmy last season, we’ve already got Lee, Dotson, Baker, Frank at SG). The only hope is some of those SGs could play the 3 but none of them fit that profile. The Diderot effect might kick in where we then start trading better players than Timmy like Dotson to shore up other positions.

      If only alternative is Melo stays – and let’s face it he won’t opt out – I think I’d do that trade. I think I might even prefer it to a 1 year buyout if we follow the strategy I just described.

    2. thenoblefacehumper

      I haven’t agreed with all of Morey’s Moves, but I think he’s a pretty good GM, so I really don’t understand why he gave Ryan Anderson 80 million dollars.

      I mean, even with Anderson the Rockets were able to win 55 games with the 2nd best offense in the game and maintain the flexibility to trade for another superstar. He was a pretty big part of their offense and played well for them in a vacuum. Overpaying for him can be rationalized given the Rockets’ place on the win curve. He’s just an albatross for a team a million years away from contention like the Knicks.

    3. fmikieo

      Looking back, it might well have possible for the great morey to have combined the Paul and Melo trades into one big blockbuster (and getting both players) where perhaps the Clippers could have taken Anderson and the Knicks would have gotten more useful parts from both Rockets and Clippers.

    4. Zanzibar

      More on that strategy of doing the direct Houston-NYK trade where we load up on bad 3 year contracts but obtain a lot of prospects, play them hoping to strike gold on 1 or 2 of them, and receive lottery picks in the process. Here are possible trades all done together that fit that strategy:

      (1) Melo for Anderson/Hartenstein/Qi/Long/Uthoff/2020 pick
      (2) Lee/KOQ/Lance for Shump/Frye/Felder/Osman/Tavares
      (3) On Dec 14: Anderson/Kuz to Portland for Harkless/Turner

      Here’s our youth roster (not showing Noah, Turner, Shump):
      1: Felder/Frank
      2: Timmy/Dotson/Frank
      3: Harkless/Osman/Uthoff
      4: KP/Qi
      5: Willy/Hartenstein/Long/Tavares

    5. Z-man

      @4 two things:
      1. You left out Baker and Jaramaz
      2. It will never happen. Portland is not taking on Anderson, period.

    6. Zanzibar

      It will never happen. Portland is not taking on Anderson, period.

      On Dec 14, this trade happens (refer to previous Cavs-NYK trade):
      NYK……….Harkless, Turner, Nicholson, Leonard
      Portland..Anderson, Frye, Shump

      Frye expires so they would ended up shedding about 14m in cap next summer from this deal which they need to sign Nurkic and avoid luxury tax. They would have a starting lineup of Lillard/McCollum/Anderson/Nurkic/Shump and Aminu at SF. I think Portland does that trade – we take all of their really bad contracts. Did they already waive Nicholson? Anderson and Shump are not bad fits for them.

    7. er

      I am convinced er is either Melo or LaLa. Its the only explanation for why he gets a light up his arse every time someone calls Melo out

      I’m convinced you are a mouth breathing troll that probably looks like the keibler elf , ala Jeff Sessions.

      #glazeddonutfaceass

    8. 2FOR18, understands math

      I like your line of thinking today Zanzibar. Life is too short for another 1 or 2 years of the melodrama. Acquire as many young assets as possible, keep our picks, and play the kids. After 2 years, maybe we can even deal some of the expirings.

    9. stratomatic is despondent

      Portland is not taking on Anderson, period.

      I think Portland would take Anderson IF they got a 1st round pick and the Knicks took Harkless & Leonard. They would essentially be in the same position cap wise. Anderson can play Leonard’s minutes better than he can. So unless they value Harkless very highly, getting a 1st round pick for Harkless would be a good enough deal.

      Harkless is young and would fit in with NY if we traded Melo. The problem is getting NY to agree to Leonard. We have no use for a 7’1″ big man coming off the bench for 3 years when we are already log jammed with better bigs and he’s not worth what they are paying him. I think the holdup is that no one else wants Leonard either.

    10. Ntilakilla

      Knicks should show the steel to call Melo’s bluff and have him face an entire season of answering media questions about his desire to leave this team and only play for Houston. But they are so risk adverse when it comes to this guy its insane.

    11. GoNyGoNyGo

      @7 – ER
      Well, I think it was me that was called out by you early this morning. 1) No, I wasn’t drunk. 2) Yes I am pissed. 3) I reread my post. If it wasn’t coherent to you, maybe…. no, I won’t stoop to your insulting level, but I’ll state it more simply, for the simple-minded.

      Carmelo Anthony has taken $147M from the Knicks so far.
      He hasn’t delivered.
      He has run anyone that stepped in his way out of town.
      He is a selfish player
      He plays no defense

      Now he’s holding a gun to our collective heads because he has the power (given to him stupidly by Phil Jackson). We need to move on and he’s doing it out of spite.

      Fuck Carmelo Anthony. Don’t trade him. Make his life miserable. Make him beg to leave and say no. It’s time for him to rot on the bench.

    12. Z-man

      I, for one, am not for the strategy of loading up on bad contracts just to get assets. I’d rather sit tight, make small frugal deals and field largely the team we have right now. At this point, we have little to go on as far as how good or bad the players we have are or how good the team is collectively. I don’t get why we need to be in such a hurry to dump Melo.

      If we just lay low, don’t make any moves, and see what falls into our lap when teams out west get desperate, we will possible get nothing for Melo and let him either opt out or waive him at the 2019 trade deadline. That will open up $28 million in cap space either next summer or the summer after that. Why would we want to put us in a situation where our hands are tied for 3 years and if a decent FA possibility comes along we are not able to consider it? I’d rather have the cap flexibility and the assets we already have than a bunch of uncertain picks and prospects.

    13. Bruno Almeida

      @14

      I agree with you until the very last part. I think it’s fine to lay low and wait to see how this core develops and how stuff goes, but Id rather have picks and prospects than cap space. At the very least they work as assets for future negotiations.

      I don’t think New York with this young core is a big draw for top free agents, and having cap space is only really worth it if you use it properly. I’d rather trade the cap space away for prospects and picks and hope they pan out, than hoping a max level free agent will want to go to the Knicks. Besides, like it has been shown many times, you can always make cap space by trading if a marquee free agent does want to join your team; you can’t get picks and prospects in the same way.

    14. Z-man

      I don’t think New York with this young core is a big draw for top free agents

      I disagree with this assessment. You have often said that as long as you have cap space, you can take on bad contracts and get assets that way. Until we know whether KP is a superstar or not, we shouldn’t hamstring ourselves in to a position. If the season starts and he is, then FAs will come when we have the cap space (consider that Kyrie put us on his list of 4 teams.) If he isn’t then deal Melo mid-season and take back Anderson and assets. But no reason to do that now.

    15. stratomatic is despondent

      I wouldn’t mind taking on 1 bad contract for some assets, but we already have a bad contract in Noah and 2 overpays that may look bad shortly (THJ and Baker). If we add another (especially a big one like Anderson), we are totally dead in the water as far as free agents and trades go for 2-3 years.

      If we can’t put together a good deal for Melo, I’d rather just keep him. He’ll be on the books for a max of 2 years, maybe only 1 if he plays well this year, opts out, and gets a 3 year deal. So for a year or two we get to develop young players, see what we have, and continue drafting. At that point we may look pretty good (kind of like the Bucks) and Melo’s cap space could come in handy to fill out the needs.

    16. chrisk06811

      Melo says he’s not sure about his future with the Knicks.

      I’m not sure about mine either.

    17. Bruno Almeida

      @16

      That is true, cap space can also be turned into assets in the future. My concern is that if KP is in fact not a superstar reliable first option, the Knicks won’t be able to get that guy in free agency anyway. In the last many years, how many top players expressed interest in coming to New York? Anthony, Stoudemire and Irving, that’s pretty much it, and they are not elite players (meaning they are/were better suited to be secondary stars in the first place).

      I think if KP is not the star this team needs him to be, the best way to find a guy to work with him is the draft.

    18. er

      Carmelo Anthony has taken $147M from the Knicks so far.
      He hasn’t delivered.
      He has run anyone that stepped in his way out of town.
      He is a selfish player
      He plays no defense

      Now he’s holding a gun to our collective heads because he has the power (given to him stupidly by Phil Jackson). We need to move on and he’s doing it out of spite.

      Fuck Carmelo Anthony. Don’t trade him. Make his life miserable. Make him beg to leave and say no. It’s time for him to rot on the bench.

      Hey buddy. I have time to respond today. I’ll ignore your buddy. As for you, that shit is super incoherent.

      You can hate Melo, good for you. But what annoys me is the lazy and hyperbolic analysis.

      1) Your point that Melo “took” 147 million from the Knicks is ridiculous. Dolan jacked up ticket prices as soon as he got here and in more than 1 way I’m sure James Dolan has made than money back exponentially and he has the most valuable team in the league. I’m sure he thanks you for caring about his funds.
      2) he’s a selfish player who plays no d. Well most of the NBA is bad defenders. It’s just funny the good scorers get criticized for it. As for the selfishness I don’t think he’s a selfish player, I think he’s more of a low iq player who doesn’t always understand the nuances of the game. This is why the PG factor had always been important for him. I think Kyrie is faaar more selfish than Melo. Kyrie seems to be a smarter player who chooses to not give a fuck and just dribblw. his ldribble.

      3) holding a gun? Sure. That’s what he’s doing….lol

      4) amare, Lin, Dantoni. Uh I’m tired of discussing this. Yes this is all Melos fault that Amare was a glass man and Lin went back to Houston and get more money which in turn pissed off Dolan. Yeah that was Melo. He was largely at fault for dantoni, yes he’s no saint.

      4) he didn’t deliver and was an “absolute disaster”

      Sure. He was 1 of the 2 best players on the best Knicks team since 99…

    19. er

      Contd……the management here has been awful, from Chauncey to Bargnani. Yet it’s Melos fault. Sure. What ever helps you vent and feel better buddy.

      I just don’t understand how u people endorse a plan to have the guy on the bench…..that would literally be the biggest knick distraction in history maybe besides the Isaiah case. The Knicks can trade him to Houston if they want to. If they don’t they have to play him.

      Sorry boss.

    20. fmikieo

      No, they don’t have to play him. If he refuses to consent, the Knicks are perfectly justfied to make him the waterboy if need be.

    21. JK47

      Melo’s play dropped off badly last season. His defense got worse, his rebounding got worse and he stopped passing the ball. It shows up in his numbers. I think he gave team basketball his best shot in the “Dad Melo” season, the season with Afflalo and RoLo, but last year he really played like he gave zero shits. His peripheral stats fell off the cliff: 25% reduction in rebounding, 33% in assists, 25% reduction in WS48.

      Melo hasn’t always been a dog with the Knicks, but he played like a dog last year.

    22. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      A 4 team deal with CLE/PHO/HOU where Phoenix takes Irving and Anderson but doesn’t have to give up Josh Jackson is the only way the Rockets get Melo.

    23. stratomatic is despondent

      @er

      The reason Melo takes so much heat is that he gets superstar treatment from the press, the organization gutted itself of many of its young assets and picks for him, and he gets paid to play like one. But the reality is that he was little more than a moderately above average all around player at his best and less than that the last 2 years. On top of that he causes issues with players, coaches, and management because he wants things his way. So there’s baggage that comes along with him. When perceptions and expectations are way different than what you deliver, you are going to take some of the heat. If he was making 10m-15m a year, came in a trade that made sense, did what he was told on the court and played a more attractive style, he’d be loved like Gallinari was in Denver and NY.

    24. d-mar

      Melo hasn’t always been a dog with the Knicks, but he played like a dog last year.

      Exactly. I’ve always been a Melo defender, but it was pretty obvious last year he didn’t give a shit and I’m totally done with the guy. I really hope he’s not on the team next season.

      That being said, I was OK with the trade with Denver and he gave us some pretty good seasons. It’s far from some kind of unmitigated disaster that we acquired him.

    25. GoNyGoNyGo

      ER, I’ve been a Melo fan up through last year but it became evident that he hasn’t delivered. He may have been the best Knick in decades, but that’s a low bar to set. We haven’t had good players. I am much more appreciative of what Stat brought to the table than what Melo did. He’s the furthest thing from a leader and is unworthy of any praise. He hasn’t accomplished crap.

    26. Totes McGoats

      I’ve been hearin alot of “Melo and KP’s relationship with the Knicks should improve with the firing of Phil Jackson” suppositions…or something adjacent. But I don’t think that’s necessarily true. Bith players should still be apprehensive at the least because it was THE ORGANIZATION- Dolan specifically- that allowed their reps and names to be drug through the mud. Dolan never told anyone to cool it. There was literally no one in the organization to protect the players or be a buffer. Maybe Perry will, but most of the guilty party is still employed with the team.

    27. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      Don’t underestimate how powerful an all-black front office stationed in New York City can be with a majority black players’ union.

    28. er

      Ok GOGO Amare himself is a big reason why Melo never accomplished anything. 20 mil a year of dead weight in Melos prime. But you are mad. Be mad man. Lash out. It makes you feel better

    29. Bruno Almeida

      How is it Amare’s fault too? He didn’t give himself a max contract, the Knicks did. For all we know Amare is a piece of shit as a person but he came to the Knicks in the contract he was offered, played as much as he could (and decently well in the start) until injuries took over. It would have been pretty easy to get out of the Amare contract if the Knicks didn’t commit to winning right away with the Melo trade, and as much as I’m fine with Melo doing whats best for himself, the trade was what gutted a team that had decent assets and turned it into a team that was completely devoid of ways to get better further. If the Knicks didn’t find the unexpected star in Chandler it’s fair to assume none of the mild success the organisation had would have even happened.

      I’d Amare is a big reason the Knicks didn’t amount to much, everything surrounding Melo, from his uninspiring play at times and the price paid to get him is at least as much of a reason, if not more. Saying Amare is the reason the Knicks sucked is ruruland levels of Melo protection.

    30. GoNyGoNyGo

      Stat was an example and it’s fair to blame his knees, which is something he cannot be blamed for. And when push came to shove, Amare yielded to Melo and sat on the bench. He wasn’t dead weight. He turned the Knicks around and became a lure to bring Melo on board. I have a lot to say about those years but that’s distant history.

      Melo’s gone through several cycles of teammates here and hasn’t succeeded with any of them. That’s enough of an indictment of him.

      I’m angry, yes. Melo has been all about Melo the entire time he’s been on the team. As for sitting him on the bench, it’s up to him. He gets to choose to identify a reasonable number of landing spots for himself or ride the pines. That’s the choice I give him now. Make it possible for the team to move him or rot on the bench. This is a tank year so I don’t care about him being a distraction. Hell, I wouldn’t even dress him if he decided to stay.

    31. Frank O.

      Sorry, I still blame the Ewing trade for everything.
      Spiraling management.
      Bad kharma
      That was the inflection. Sure there were moments, ie ’99, where we had no business in the final and the Spurs proved it and the one good year under Melo.

      But it was the Ewing trade for me.
      This is half tongue in cheek.

    32. er

      Melo’s gone through several cycles of teammates here and hasn’t succeeded with any of them. That’s enough of an indictment of him.

      Lol have any beside chandler been close to all star level? And they won games when chandler was there.

    33. er

      Amare yielded to Melo and sat on the bench.

      Lol that’s how u re,member it huh? Amare “yielded” Ok.

    34. er

      for sitting him on the bench, it’s up to him. He gets to choose to identify a reasonable number of landing spots for himself or ride the pines. That’s the choice I give him now. Make it possible for the team to move him or rot on the bench.

      Lol one word. Union.

    35. Ntilakilla

      I dunno what the Hell er is arguing about. Melo signed off on just about every shitty move this franchise made during his tenure here. Poor him. He even hated Tyson Chandler, the one allstar who could accommodate his game.

    36. Bruno Almeida

      @39

      You kinda did:

      Ok GOGO Amare himself is a big reason why Melo never accomplished anything. 20 mil a year of dead weight in Melos prime.

      Amare was as much of a reason as Melo not being worth the trade / his contract later.

    37. 2FOR18, understands math

      I bought an Amare jersey on-line the day he signed.
      I’ve been pissed off since the instant I heard about the particulars of the melo trade. melo and Dolan ruined this team for the better part of a decade that day.

    38. er

      You kinda did:

      Well what I was conveying is that his contract hindered the team once he was always hurt. I wasn’t blaming him. Like how people are blaming Melo. Not the same thing

    39. Bruno Almeida

      The difference is that the argument of the people who blame Melo was that he had a choice: if he forfeited a not so incredible high amount of money, he could have come to New York without destroying the team’s assets. Amare didn’t have a choice on not getting injured.

      It’s not the same thing. Even if you respect Melo for doing what was right for him (I understand that its natural that a player perceived as a superstar would want to get the most money possible), but he had a choice.

    40. Ntilakilla

      @46

      The difference is that the argument of the people who blame Melo was that he had a choice: if he forfeited a not so incredible high amount of money, he could have come to New York without destroying the team’s assets. Amare didn’t have a choice on not getting injured.

      +1,000!!!!!

    41. english_knick

      Wow. A lot of anger tonight. Off-season sucks.

      One thing that I keep meaning to say. Have I remembered it completely wrong, or is the whole thing about Melo ruining the depth on that 2010 team by not waiting to sign on FA a bit of a myth? I think we would have to have renounced Gallo and Chandler maybe to be able to sign him?

    42. er

      The difference is that the argument of the people who blame Melo was that he had a choice: if he forfeited a not so incredible high amount of money, he could have come to New York without destroying the team’s assets. Amare didn’t have a choice on not getting injured.

      It’s not the same thing. Even if you respect Melo for doing what was right for him (I understand that its natural that a player perceived as a superstar would want to get the most money possible), but he had a choice.

      Totally fair….hence like I said in not blaming him. I was responding to something about a lack of success with Melo and GOGO mentioned amare in the next sentence .

    43. er

      I think we would have to have renounced Gallo and Chandler maybe to be able to sign him?

      You have it half right. Chandler would have been let go.

    44. english_knick

      Zanzibar… on your approach to the Melo trade – taking a bunch of three year deals for assets is definitely a strategy. We have a lot of money on the books until then anyway in Noah, lee and THJ. And any reasonable strategy, consistently followed, would be an improvement.

      For me, I worry that it limits us to only using 2 of the 3 team building tools for too long, because as those salaries fall away the big deals for our current rookie-deal players start to kick in. Can we build a good enough team from a base of KP, Willy and Frank plus the assets we get and a couple more first rounders to be competitive without any major FA additions? Maybe… but it’s risky. A lot of the young assets you’re describing probably won’t come to much.

      The alternative of letting Melo walk might give us a run with some real space in a lean year for cap space next summer.

      In any case, as I say what matters to me is that we have a clear milti-year plan that reflects an understanding of our current assets and position and the way the league will evolve in the next few years. Not sure yours is my no1 preferred plan but it is definitely a legit plan and I’d take it from here…

    45. Bruno Almeida

      I think the two decent plans are pretty set with or without Melo.

      You either build to win now (the best option here would be trading for Kyrie) or you let the young guys play and don’t make any moves for veterans making more than the minimum, hoping that either the young guys are good enough to compete now, or if they suck we still have the picks to take advantage of that.

      So having cap space is inherently tied to another question: who would be available that would be worthy devaluing 1st round picks for?
      The 2018 free agent class is really, really lackluster (unless Lebron hits the market which yeah, won’t happen for us). There’s Cousins, Brook Lopez, Monroe, Favors, Wade, Chris Paul (unlikely to not re-sign), Redick, KCP, Avery Bradley, IT (same as cp3), and a bunch of lackluster or not likely to become FAs at all in the restricted free agent group.

      2019 might be better, with Westbrook, Durant, DeAndre Jordan, Paul George, Towns etc, but that’s the season the Knicks have to re-sign KP while Noah, THJ and Lee’s contracts are still on board.

      I don’t think the Knicks are getting any of those top free agents anytime soon, and I would never want them to overpay dudes like Cousins or KCP anyway.

    46. the don nelson era

      @41

      This isn’t the first time I’ve seen someone say that the union would step in if Melo was benched. It’s pure fantasy.

      Michele Roberts spoke up last year in response to a perception that Phil was not acting in good faith w/r/t the NTC. It was something she interpreted as a contractual issue (which failed, btw). It’s not because the Knicks were being mean.

      As long as the Knicks honor Melo’s contract by paying him, the union’s got nothing to say.

    47. Zanzibar

      The alternative of letting Melo walk might give us a run with some real space in a lean year for cap space next summer.

      I think the odds are low that Melo opts out next summer. First he’d have to stay healthy and play well. Second, a team would have to be willing to pay him 2yr/40m or 3yr/45m type of deal. Melo would be 35yo during the playoffs in 2 years so you have to wonder how attractive he’d be to a contender and Melo probably would only be interested in a contender. Third, even if a contender were ready to pay, they’d have to have the cap space. Bottom Line: We’d still be capped out next summer if Melo stays but even if he leaves which is against the odds there doesn’t appear to be any free agent worth signing and Mills would probably make another Timmy type or worse signing.

      Looking at the scenario I described earlier, we’d end up having Noah, Turner, Leonard, Nicholson which totals a whopping 50m. Have you finished administering the smelling salts? But that’s only part of the story. Our other contracts would be KP, Frank, Harkless and a bunch of min type contracts. So all of our cap adds up to something like 85m? We’d have some available cap next summer! What about in 2 years when Rubio or Kyrie might be available? Well we’d have to add our 2018 high draft pick to our cap but we’d still have some money. KP could be signed as RFA going over cap. Since all of those bad contracts would only have 1 year left, we should be able to move one or more of them by attaching a pick and/or one of our many young players to free up the needed additional space.

    48. Ntilakilla

      2019 might be better, with Westbrook, Durant, DeAndre Jordan, Paul George, Towns etc, but that’s the season the Knicks have to re-sign KP while Noah, THJ and Lee’s contracts are still on board.

      We should make a play for Towns – even if it means trading Willy.

    49. JK47

      I’m starting to think I’d rather have three years of Ryan Anderson than two years of Melo. Ryan Anderson is not very good, but at least his game and his personality would not be completely dominating the Knicks. He’d be an overpaid bench player rather than an overpaid guy who leads the team in FGA and minutes and generates endless media headaches.

      Melo’s center of gravity is too much to deal with. He’s just too big a personality to fit in with this youth-oriented team in a way that makes any sense.

    50. KnickfaninNJ

      I still want Melo gone, but a thought occurred to me. Many people here have said that Melo played very badly last season. The general assumption has been that he’s just getting old. But I am wondering if some of that was a side effect of playing with Rose. Any thoughts?

    51. Zanzibar

      Oops I left out Timmy so we would be capped out next summer but, like I said, there doesn’t appear to be anyone worth signing next summer. In two summers, if Kyrie or Rubio or someone like that were available, we’d could move one or more of the bad contracts which should be possible since they’d only have 1 year left. So give Noah or Turner to some team including a protected 1st round pick and/or one of our youngins where we have glut at the position. We could waive and stretch another contract if it were someone like Kyrie who was ready to sign. Finally, I’m not sure but a buyout might be possible for Turner and/or Leonard. Since they wouldn’t get much playing time, we offer a 2 year buyout right after we trade for them and they could then choose their team. I’m not at all clear about buyouts but I believe the 3rd year wouldn’t affect our cap if they cleared waivers.

    52. er

      As long as the Knicks honor Melo’s contract by paying him, the union’s got nothing to say.

      Sure sure. Even if this was true, I’m sure KP and Timmy and co,will love that if the Knicks lose a few games in a row. They’d love it bigly.

    53. Bruno Almeida

      @56

      a KP-Towns front court would be a dream come true, but it would have to be a trade, Minnesota is matching anything in free agency ofc… gathering assets is the right way because it allows us the flexibility to take advantage of teams. Let’s say Minnesota doesn’t pan out, Butler leaves and Towns gets pissed and wants out. As currently constructed the Knicks would have assets to make a trade (multiple first rounders plus Willy, Frank etc). If the Knicks empty the cupboard trading for Kyrie for example, the team better become a contender as it is because nobody else is coming.

    54. stratomatic is despondent

      The Amare signing was terrible because everyone knew his legs were in bad shape. That’s why the Suns didn’t want to sign him for that many years. Their doctors told them he only had a few productive years left.

      The difference between the Amare signing and the Melo trade is that we didn’t give up any players and picks to get Amare (though we could have signed David Lee instead if my memory serves me) and Amare always came off as a guy that was willing to do whatever was asked of him by the coach and team in terms of position, minutes, role etc… He tried as hard as he could despite the deteriorating health.

    55. Bruno Almeida

      @60

      Why would they be angry if a guy who wanted desperately to be traded in the off-season has to fight for a spot in the team when he doesn’t get traded?

    56. johnnyhoops

      @57 I completely agree. If we could acquire young assets like Qi, Hartenstein plus a #1 I’d pull the trigger.

    57. DRed

      The general assumption has been that he’s just getting old. But I am wondering if some of that was a side effect of playing with Rose. Any thoughts?

      We know Melo was older, and was very bad on defense last season. We can guess he was having trouble with his family for at least part of the season. We know he and Phil were feuding. Maybe he also didn’t get along with Hornacek and/or Rose. Either way at this stage of his career and where the Knicks are as a team, it makes the most sense to trade him, but if we’re stuck with him for another season there are some reasons to hope he’ll be better next year that aren’t completely wishful thinking.

    58. Ntilakilla

      @61

      I 1oo percent agree. I said at the beginning of last season that KAT should be the guy we identify early on to make a bid for when the time comes. He can pair with KP and form 2/3 of a SuperTeam core. And Willy would be a perfect dude to trade in package for him.

    59. the don nelson era

      @60 I mean… it’s definitely true. Your imagining of the union’s role has no basis in reality. Feel free to find another time when the union has involved themselves in the number of minutes a player gets.

    60. Zanzibar

      Let’s say a deal is ready to go involving Cavs-NYK-Phoenix. We get Kyrie giving up Melo and a 1st round pick and Cavs are comparable in strength to last season. We definitely should play hardball if Melo refuses to go to Cavs in that scenario. Make the pending trade public and every Knick fan would want Melo out of here. Even er would offer to drive Melo to the airport. The public pressure would be too great. We’d tell him to stay home if he doesn’t accept trade. Even league and union might not support Melo. Kyrie and KP in NYC for the next 7 years would make Silver ecstatic and players union might really want the first all African-American front office to succeed.

      It’s a completely different situation if we’re not able to acquire Kyrie cheap and send Melo to team which would be favored to play in NBA finals. We wouldn’t be in a position to force Melo to waive NTC to more teams who weren’t real contenders. We’d have to either keep and play Melo, attempt a 1 year buyout, or trade him to Houston.

    61. stratomatic is despondent

      There’s no way we are getting KAT. He’s going to get a max extension when this season is over just like they are working on one for Wiggins now.

    62. er

      Why would they be angry if a guy who wanted desperately to be traded in the off-season has to fight for a spot in the team when he doesn’t get traded?

      I’m guessing u didn’t see KPs quotes today.

      Happy bday to the unicorn btw

    63. er

      60 I mean… it’s definitely true. Your imagining of the union’s role has no basis in reality. Feel free to find another time when the union has involved themselves in the number of minutes a player gets.

      I’m not imagining anything. A player being benched because he doesn’t wave an agreed upon no trade clause has never happened. So we will see.

    64. Bruno Almeida

      “He’s an All-Star, an incredible player and I’ve learned so much from him,” Porzingis told NBA.com. “There’s still so much for me to learn from him. I would love to have him around and keep playing alongside him. But it is what it is. It’s a business. If it ends, well … I don’t know, it’s out of my hands. I’m really thankful for these couple of years I’ve been with him, just seeing how he works during the summer. It proves he wants to win and he wants to be great. I’m sure he’ll make the right decision for himself.”

      What did you want him to say? He’s a good guy who’s been trained to answer PR questions. If Melo keeps pushing for a trade and the Knicks decide they wont trade him, his NTC doesn’t entitle him to a starter spot. Let him fight for his spot just like everyone else does.

    65. danvt

      The fact that Melo has not been moved is a good sign. If we had just not done any of our transactions since Ewing this team might have been competitive. For NYK no move is the best move.

      No Marbury scenarios either. Go ahead and play him. Fuck it. Worst case we have cap space after next season. If the young guys take the next step he might even be a useful piece. If we suck we get a better pick.

      The justification for giving up all those guys for Melo in 2010 was the idea of pairing him with Amar’e. If he’d been dominant it all might have been worth it. Should we have known better? Survey says yes.

    66. danvt

      They say the two best days when you buy a boat are the day you buy the boat and the day you sell it. The Knicks always sell the boat for two more boats.

      End the madness, Scotty.

    67. er

      What did you want him to say? He’s a good guy who’s been trained to answer PR questions

      Yeah he sure was trained with that skipping exit meeting fiasco.

      And he was sure not saying he doesn’t want Melo yo leave last year and how much he likes him. Many here claim he’s under Melos spell.

      Keep trying man. KP will be honky dory with Melo on the bench and the team losing games. Yeah go with that.

    68. Bruno Almeida

      Skipping the meeting to annoy Phil Jackson seems precisely on point with what we’ve heard from his brother.

      He said he’s rather Melo not leave, but he understands if it happens. If Melo gets benched for not performing and KP gets angry about it, who cares? If KP loves a player, does that give said player a perennial starting spot?

      I really don’t get what you’re trying to accomplish here. I get that you feel the need to defend against the bad perception people around here have of Melo. I dont get why benching him would be the end of the world.

    69. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      KP is going to explode and win MIP this year if the impossible comes to fruition and Melo is traded. According to Stephen A, the Cavs are still on the table but a distant second to Houston. I no longer believe we will trade him because Ryan Anderson’s deal is unwanted league-wide and Houston doesn’t have the sweeteners in a deal to make it happen.

      If he leaves, though, KP is going to occupy the space Melo now occupies and that’s going to create more opportunities for his face up game. He’ll always be one dribble away from a dunk in isolations and he’ll be unstoppable in single coverage if he’s developed his strength. I’d be excited to see what KP becomes if Melo is gone before Game 1.

    70. er

      If Melo gets benched for not performing and KP gets angry about it, who cares?

      No, it was Melo getting benched for not waiving his no trade clause.

      I really don’t get what you’re trying to accomplish here. I get that you feel the need to defend against the bad perception people around here have of Melo. I dont get why benching him would be the end of the world

      I’m not defending Melo per se . I’m just giving counter points to the “just let him rot” crowd. And what benching him will cause. I think it would be even more toxic than last year by leaps n bounds.

    71. KnickfaninNJ

      If Melo is still on the team next season and plays well enough he should start. A coach can’t run a team without selecting the best players available for each role on the team. Melo’s trade request and contract status are between him and the GM, not between him and the coach or between him and his teammates. Now if the management wants to tank, or prefers to develop young players to pushing for winning as much as possible, then Melo might take rest days or play fewer minutes, but that is completely different from benching him.

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