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Thursday, June 29, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.04.19)

  • [NYPost] The Knicks’ coin flip with T-Wolves was a predictable defeat
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:53:48 AM)

    It’s not exactly seventh heaven. The pingpong balls didn’t go the Knicks’ way in Tuesday’s NBA tiebreaker drawing, meaning the jinxed club will be seeded seventh in the May 16 draft lottery. The Timberwolves won the drawing, giving them the sixth seed. If the Knicks don’t move up into the top three, they most likely…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis doubles down on team that isn’t Knicks
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 7:43:27 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis sounds excited about one thing at least: playing for Latvia this summer. Before skipping his Knicks exit interview last week, Porzingis told FIBA.com in an interview he “absolutely’’ wants to return to the Latvian national team this summer to play in the European Championships. Porzingis had told Knicks reporters last Wednesday he hadn’t…

  • [NYTimes] On Pro Basketball: For Russell Westbrook, and His Orange Pal, It’s Time to Get Serious
    (Wednesday, April 19, 2017 12:30:50 AM)

    Oklahoma City’s Westbrook, a mercurial superstar, said his relationship with the basketball on the court is no joke as he and the Thunder prepare for Game 2 against the Houston Rockets.

  • [NYTimes] ‘Take That for Data’ Punctuates Fizdale’s Officiating Rant
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 2:02:05 PM)

    The Memphis Grizzlies coach let his displeasure with the refs be known in a news conference after the team lost to the Spurs, 96-82, on Monday night.

  • [NYTimes] N.B.A. Roundup: Bulls Put the Top-Seeded Celtics in a Hole
    (Wednesday, April 19, 2017 4:04:32 AM)

    Jimmy Butler scored 22 points, grabbed 8 rebounds and dished out 8 assists as Chicago heads home with a 2-0 lead its Eastern Conference series against Boston.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks will have seventh slot in upcoming NBA Draft Lottery
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:20:12 PM)

    The Knicks finished the season 31-51, missing the playoffs for the fourth consecutive season.

  • [SNY Knicks] Carmelo Anthony, who allegedly impregnated dancer, separates from wife La La
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:30:54 AM)

    La La has reportedly moved out of the family home and is living on her own in New York, though neither side has filed divorce papers.

  • [NY Newsday] Knicks lose NBA Draft coin toss to Minnesota Timberwolves
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 4:42:31 PM)

    The Knicks suffered another loss Tuesday.

  • [NYDN] La La Anthony goes ringless amid reports Melo impregnated dancer
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 8:24:08 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony allegedly got another woman pregnant while married to La La Anthony, according to a report.

  • [NYDN] Knicks’ Porzingis makes statement by blowing off Phil Jackson
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:52:41 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis made a bold statement last Friday by blowing off his exit meeting with Phil Jackson.

  • [NYDN] Man pleads guilty in armed robbery of Knick Cleanthony Early
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 3:13:17 PM)

    A man linked to the 2015 robbery of Early near a Queens strip club has pleaded guilty to his role in the crime, according to court records.

  • [NYDN] Knicks can’t stop losing as T-Wolves win NBA lottery tiebreaker
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 12:08:58 PM)

    The Knicks lost their pre-lottery tiebreaker drawing to the Minnesota Timberwolves.

  • [NYDN] Giuliani: Fans shouldn’t judge Carmelo for reported infidelity
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:48:06 AM)

    Rudy Giuliani doesn’t think fans should bench their support for Carmelo Anthony amid reports he cheated on his wife — since so many do it.

  • [NYDN] La La Anthony seen in Tribeca without her wedding ring
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 11:20:44 AM)

    La La Anthony did not appear to be hiding her bare hands Tuesday as she stepped out of Thalassa Restaurant.

  • [NYDN] More Knicks headaches? Porzingis wants to play for Latvia
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 10:33:12 AM)

    Back when their relationship was on firmer ground, the Knicks advised Kristaps Porzingis against playing internationally.

  • [NYDN] PODCAST: What’s wrong with Rangers? What’s wrong with Knicks?
    (Tuesday, April 18, 2017 9:34:37 AM)

    The NHL playoffs are in full swing.

  • 119 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.19)

    1. GoldClub

      Putting aside the 1.8% chance that we drop to 9th or 10th…let’s say we hit on the 22.6% chance that we pick 8th because Knicks and the first seven are: Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Isaac, Fox, Smith, Ntilikina. Who do you pick?

    2. kevin5318

      That scenario would suck. Zach Collins would be BPA but Phil probably takes Tatum or Monk. I’m leaning towards the former.

    3. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      O.G. might be considered if we know he’s healthy. He’s been a defensive beast and I know that Clarence Gaines has personally scouted him.

    4. DS

      No one wants Lauri Markkanen? I think the freak show with KP could be fun… Chad Ford has us grabbing Fox at 7 in his latest mock for whatever that’s worth.

    5. Accidentank 2017

      Super skipping on another big. Take Tatum in that situation and hope Colin Sexton falls to us next year.

    6. english_knick

      a couple of thoughts on this thread and recent discussions from recent days.

      First – the draft. I think people are too locked in on current mocks – the best ‘final’ mocks get about half the picks right and that’s post workouts and two months more consoderation from teams. It’s definitely well within the realms of possibility that we have a choice of two or three of the guys people on this blog seem to want. People’s worst case view seems to be that of the consensus top 9 players, at 7 or 8 we might only have Markannen, Tatum or Monk to pick from. But while I share the cynicism about scorers like monk and Tatum, based on too many years of one way iso specialists, we should at least allow that those are two guys currently seen by a lot of teams and experts as top 5 in a stacked draft. There are worse things than picking one of them if they fall. We need patience and the accumulation of building blocks with value either to us or the rest of the league and I think we have a roughly equal chance of achieving that at 7 or 8 as we did at 4 or 5. Granted, the lower chance at 1-3 from the late season wins means we’re unlikely to get a truly can’t miss prospect but lots of commentators think there aren’t any of those in this draft anyway.

    7. Zanzibar

      Phil Jackson didn’t say anything negative about Rose at the presser. He was positive and said that Rose wants to come back. More than one source suggested the Knicks like Rose’s work ethic and thought he was leaning and getting better all season.

      My guess is that Phil had to be positive about Rose in order to preserve the option to sign-and-trade him to a limited cap team. Melo’s a different situation. He had to be forthright about Melo because he said Melo likes NYC and I’m guessing Melo and he did have discussions about waiving the NTC but Melo was not receptive. If true, Phil now has to put public pressure on Melo to force him out.

    8. djphan

      the pick has to be whoever falls out of the fox, smith, tatum or isaac group… anyone else, except maybe for collins… would be slightly disastrous….

    9. english_knick

      Secondly, trades and longer term strategy. There was a discussion about taking Turner’s salary in a Melo deal and lots of people were really against. In isolation obviously it’s a terrible deal but what we need is an organisation not seeing things in isolation. I can get on board with any long-term strategy that makes sense and is consistently applied. If that’s accepting longer ‘bad’ deals to accumulate picks and you bet players then I’m in – the worst/biggest deals we have now run to 2020 so other contracts on the same timeline feel fine to me. If actually take turner and crabbe in a Melo deal if we got some picks from it. We can then build with picks this year and next, build a culture and team ethos, and be in a strong position to extend or rookies and add free agents in the summer of 2020, right around the time those rookies are maturing into a home grown good team. This may or may not be a good strategy but it is at least clear and all other possible moves can be evaluated against it. Sooner that than ‘take each move on its apparent immediate merits’ while ‘both’ building for the future and trying to win now…

    10. english_knick

      FWIW – chad Ford’s latest mock has all of Fox, Smith, Isaac and Frank available at 7… and Tatum, Markannen and Monk all off the board. that would be fine with everyone here, right?

    11. Hubert

      No one wants Lauri Markkanen?

      Maybe in a vacuum, but with Porzingis on the team, I want a more complementary player. A top PG would be ideal. I’m not high on Smith or the French guy, but Fox at 7 would be great, even though his shooting is legitimately worrisome.

      Second to that, an athletic scoring wing with tremendous length who could pair with Porzingis to make us a nightmare on defense would be my preference (think how Middleton pairs with Giannis). That’s Isaac or Tatum.

      If we can’t fill any of those needs, I’d take Monk and be back in the lottery next year.

    12. Philmelo

      Putting aside the 1.8% chance that we drop to 9th or 10th…let’s say we hit on the 22.6% chance that we pick 8th because Knicks and the first seven are: Fultz, Ball, Jackson, Isaac, Fox, Smith, Ntilikina. Who do you pick?

      Trade down and get Annunoby plus another pick.

    13. Farfa

      I mean, I think our first need is perimeter defense. Our second need is playmaking. Our third (and less important) need is scoring.

      Let’s draft keeping that in mind.

    14. wetbandit

      FYI- Jared Dubin is now doing interesting cross-podcasts with other teams’ podcasts trying to ‘negotiate’ a deal for Melo. Today was with a Lakers guy, and they had a great back-and-forth discussing openly each team’s interests (like, they want to get rid of Deng, and keep Ingram/Russell, we need picks and youth).

      They ended up with Melo, Lance, Courtney Lee, a second rounder, for two first rounders (one Houston), Deng, Randle, and maybe one more. I say HELL YEAH that works for us. Head-scratcher for LA, don’t get why they absolutely need to unload Deng.

    15. Hubert

      I don’t think our current weaknesses are relevant. We just need a player who is a top 4 rotation player for us through his second contract, and who complements Porzingis. If we get anything less than that, this season has been a failure.

    16. 2FOR18

      Other than Ball, I would think Fox complements Porzingis the most/best. A penetrator who’s a willing passer, plus a nasty perimeter defensive presence to go with P’s rim protection. A nice pair of bookends to start the rebuild with.

    17. SJK

      We really should just take the best player available. All these guys compliment Porzingis in one way or another and we don’t have enough shots at this to screw around with fit.

    18. thenoblefacehumper

      We really should just take the best player available. All these guys compliment Porzingis in one way or another and we don’t have enough shots at this to screw around with fit.

      I’m pretty torn. I’ve been a hardcore BPA guy for a while but the Sixers trading Noel for two cents on the dollar has me thinking a bit. When other teams know you absolutely have to trade a guy you really do get low balled.

      In this draft, I think Zach Collins is the BPA almost regardless of where we pick. His statistical profile covers literally all the bases. He’d probably be top-5 on my personal big board, maybe just behind Ball and Fultz due to legitimate sample size and strength of schedule concerns. Point being, with a pure BPA approach he’d easily be my pick at 7/8. With our current roster though? Man, I dunno. I definitely wouldn’t be upset about the pick since I don’t think pure BPA is ever a bad idea, but if it lead to him, Porzingis, or Willy being traded for much less than they’re objectively worth it might be a net negative pick.

    19. SJK

      Eh, the Noel thing is anecdotal evidence, besides the fact that it was a dumb move. They should have held onto him or moved okafor instead.

      If Zach Collins is your BPA then take Zach Collins. I’m sure we can find enough minutes to rotate Collins, KP and Willy.

      That said, I think there will be at least one wings/guards on the board that I would take over Collins in a vacuum.

    20. SJK

      I should amend that to say: if you think players are of similar value but one fits better, than go with fit.

      Like if you were choosing between Collins and Frank and had Collins rated slightly better, it would be a better move to take Frank.

    21. Brian Cronin

      First – the draft. I think people are too locked in on current mocks

      I’m personally working under the assumption that Isaac and Ntilikina move up the closer we get to the draft. Historically, the freak athletic guys jump up on the draft the closer we actually get to the real draft. However, since this is such a stacked point guard draft, while I think Isaac definitely does move up (so Ford’s mock of him going something like #9 or #10 seems unlikely), Ntilikina is a bit different, since there are so many point guards in this draft that even if Ntilikina might normally move up, he might be kind of stuck if teams fall in love with Fox’s athleticism.

    22. Hugo Busto

      Is the lottery drawing still done in public with ping pong balls? Or is it now done behind closed doors and not televised?

    23. Hugo Busto

      Really hope Fox is available when we pick. I think his shot is very much fixable, I don’t even think his form is bad. I almost feel like its more of a strength/confidence thing

    24. Z-man

      Anyone think that if the Celts lose, they’d be interested in Melo?

      What about Melo, O’Quinn and pick#7 for (fill in the blanks) and Pick #1 or 2+#36?

      Maybe Horford? That’s not a great contract, nor do we need him but it would kind of make sense. Crowder, Zeller and Rozier?

    25. JK47

      If the choice is between Monk and Tatum give me Tatum. He looks like he has a much better chance to be a decent two-way player.

    26. Z-man

      The guy I see moving up in this draft is Zach Collins. He wasn’t on the board until recently and wasn’t part of the analysis hype.

      I also see the possibility of many draft-day trades. Besides the Celts, I think the Sixers, Lakers and Magic would be willing to trade down a few spots to get an established vet that would launch them up a few spots in the standings, while still getting a top pick at a position of need.

    27. Hugo Busto

      Feel like the Celtics best course is to just go after Gordon Hayward this offseason and draft lonzo or fultz.

      or pursue pg13 or jimmy.

      they should also be willing to trade isiah thomas imo. he gets exposed in playoffs when teams gameplan on focus in on him, and is a liability on defense

    28. Z-man

      Gordon Hayward probably stays put.
      Butler is a possibility, but he’s signed for the next 2 years and would cost them a bundle.
      PG13 is signed through next year and has a big payday coming to him as a FA. Maybe Bird gives the Celts a sweetheart deal, but does he really move the needle that much for them?
      Isaiah Thomas is excellent trade bait, but they love him up there.

      A Melo deal with them is unlikely, but might be a good option.

    29. bobneptune

      BPA AINEC!

      If ZC is the BPA there are 96 minutes to spread between the 4 and 5. 32 mpg is probably close to the ideal number of minutes to protect vs injury, fatigue and performance. The days of Wilt averaging> 48 mpg are long gone in every sport.

      Noel’s trade/dump likely had more to do with not wanting to pay him max on a RFA match than anything else.

      If ZC is the BPA choice, there is nothing “forcing” KP or WHG to be moved…. but a tantalizing trade might become available….

      And moving Bill Cartwright for Oak certainly wasn’t the Knicks getting raped or anything in a “similar” scenario close to the heart.

      I am developing some Onanistic tendencies when viewing Isaac. I see a long Scottie Pippen with a developed offensive game (for a 19 year old).

    30. Hugo Busto

      PG13 is signed through next year and has a big payday coming to him as a FA. Maybe Bird gives the Celts a sweetheart deal, but does he really move the needle that much for them?

      YES. PG13 is a top 20 player in the league. And the writing is on the wall that he is leaving Indy. The moves they have made just haven’t worked out all that well (monta, teague, thad), and I don’t think Paul is happy. Myles Turner is solid but I don’t think he’s enough to get PG13 to stay. Larry Bird needs to realize the time to trade him is this offseason.

    31. kevin5318

      I don’t trust this team to manage those 3 guys minutes( or get a decent return for one of them).

    32. SJK

      I think people are underrating Tatum here b/c of his similarities to Melo. He’s a good bet to go top 5.

    33. Accidentank 2017

      Teague worked out great and so did Turner. It’s the rest of the moves along with Paul George not being the big needle-mover in the regular season.

    34. thenoblefacehumper

      I am developing some Onanistic tendencies when viewing Isaac. I see a long Scottie Pippen with a developed offensive game (for a 19 year old).

      I’ve had a man crush on him for a while, but this went out the door with Ndour’s shot and the inevitable coin flip loss. He makes perfect sense for Minnesota, he ain’t getting past them.

    35. Hugo Busto

      Teague worked out great and so did Turner. It’s the rest of the moves along with Paul George not being the big needle-mover in the regular season.

      I’m not sure if he’s worked out great. George Hill is no slouch, unfortunately he battled injuries this year.
      But I’m really not sure that Teague is better for them then Hill was.

    36. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Paul George is a top-20 player? Hahahaha, what?

    37. Accidentank 2017

      He gave them a guy who passes the ball more and pushes the tempo offensively. He isn’t George Hill defensively, but they’re probably equal offensively and that’s what they wanted to do. He wasn’t a bust for them the way Derrick Rose was for us.

    38. Accidentank 2017

      PG is the kind of guy who needs strong guys around him to get him into the playoffs because once he’s there he’s without a doubt a top 5 guy in the NBA. In the regular season though he is not the same person.

    39. Hugo Busto

      Paul George is a top-20 player? Hahahaha, what?

      Name 20 other guys you want in a playoff series.

      Name 20 other guys you want for the next 5 years.

    40. Hugo Busto

      PG is the kind of guy who needs strong guys around him to get him into the playoffs because once he’s there he’s without a doubt a top 5 guy in the NBA. In the regular season though he is not the same person.

      Yes, I think this is true. He’s more of a #”2″ for the regular season. He’s a elite wing defender, a strong 3 point shooter, and has the ability to create

    41. Hugo Busto

      Paul George is a top-20 player? Hahahaha, what?

      what you smoking cock boy?

      This would be my top 20 for the next 5 years.. not exact order. age in parenthesis

      Kawhi Leonard (26)
      Kevin Durant (29)
      Giannis Antetokounmpo (22)
      Steph Curry (29)
      James Harden (28)
      LeBron James (32)
      Rudy Gobert (25)
      Anthony Davis (25)
      Karl Anthony Towns (21)
      Russell Westbrook (28)
      Nikola Jokic (22)
      Draymond Green (27)
      Jimmy Butler (28)
      John Wall (27)
      Klay Thompson (27)
      Kristaps Porzingis (22)
      Paul George (27)
      Gordon Hayward (27)
      Chris Paul (32)
      Joel Embiid (23)

      Then there’s Blake, Marc Gasol, Boogie,Kyrie. Maybe Dame, or hassan

      You want to say he’s not top 20, fine. But he is top 25

    42. Jack Bauer

      The Knicks need a point guard in the worst way. Fox would seem to be the best pick of guys who might be available, I hope he’s available. The Knicks will not be good until they get competent point guard play no matter who they pick or how good KP gets.
      On the ongoing Jerian Grant commentary, he was -14 with zero points in 6 minutes last night.
      Not missing that dude.

    43. djphan

      most of the top 7.. or 8 if you count collins.. are very very close… i have collins rated #2 but there’s enough questions with him where picking him or smith or fox is fairly indistinguishable…

      i’ve always been a bpa guy… but there are a huge glut of big men around the league where nerlens noel only nets a 2nd rd pick… so the threshold for choosing a big man is just a lot higher than guards or wings… you have to be really sure he’s the bpa at that point… plus i think getting someone who can handle the ball well is imperative since there’s no one on the roster who can currently do that…

    44. stratomatic

      I think Ntilikina is almost certain to be available to us unless he has some freaky good workouts for the teams selecting before us. He’s basically an unknown quality.

      He can’t possibly be as scouted as some of the top US players even if many teams have someone doing foreign scouting.

      He has fewer minutes to evaluate statistically.

      The stats he does have don’t even leap off the page at you.

      I liken him to Mudiay in a way. He may be nothing like him as a player, but just like Mudiay, everyone knew they would be taking a risk to take him very high in the lottery. So he dropped down to Denver. With this draft loaded with quality guards, it’s even more likely teams that need/want a guard will take a safer path than Ntilikina. Also, there have been reports he’s been working out in at Melo’s gym. If he wants to come to NY and the Knicks want him, I don’t think he’ll have too much trouble blowing off a few teams that may want to work him out.

    45. Hugo Busto

      Paul George career WS48: .145
      Paul George career playoff WS48: .147

      Yea he had a really bad playoffs his rookie year. What is your point? He also made a clear jump in improvement after this 3rd year ITL.

      Ed Davis had a .192 ws48 last year. Does that make him a stud buddy?

    46. Brian Cronin

      On the ongoing Jerian Grant commentary, he was -14 with zero points in 6 minutes last night.
      Not missing that dude.

      So when he was +11 in 21 minutes in Game 1, were you missing him then?

      Or does it make no sense to say “Player W did X in Game Y, so I think Z about him”?

    47. stratomatic

      Paul George is a beast on both ends of the floor. He has ice water in his veins. I’ve watched him enough in high pressure situations to know that all the models that rank him moderately above average are not capturing his value correctly. I’m not a huge advocate of the eye test or empirical evidence, but George is so obviously a great player I don’t care what the stats say.

    48. JK47

      Yea he had a really bad playoffs his rookie year. What is your point? He also made a clear jump in improvement after this 3rd year ITL.

      My point is that guys don’t magically become different players when the playoffs start. And that small sample size is real.

    49. JK47

      David Eckstein, man, that guy had ice water in his veins. He was a regular crummy no-hitting infielder in the regular season, but once the playoffs started that guy was like Ted Williams combined with Ty Cobb. Except that his career numbers were almost identical to his playoff numbers but NEVER MIND THAT.

    50. Hugo Busto

      What would his ws48 be through 58 playoff games?

      That would not be counting his rookie playoff 5 games

    51. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      “On the ongoing Jerian Grant commentary, he was -14 with zero points in 6 minutes last night.
      Not missing that dude.”

      Grant must be hyped because Phil traded him away and it’s just a way to bash Phil.
      We got Holiday and a #2 pick in that deal and rid ourselves of Calderon’s $7 million contract. I’m betting that our #2 pick will be much better than Grant, who stands in the corner and falls down a lot.

    52. JK47

      Paul George, career WS48 not including rookie season: .151
      Paul George, playoff WS48 not including rookie season: .155

    53. stratomatic

      My point is that guys don’t magically become different players when the playoffs start. And that small sample size is real.

      You can’t compare regular season stats to playoffs stats because in the playoffs you are only playing against the better teams. That has a tendency to lower everyone’s efficiency and other stats. Second, the games get refereed differently. They get much more physical. Finally, there are definitely players that don’t go all out on both ends every game. They pace themselves trying to save something for the playoffs in the same way coaches rest players. Lebron James is an example of that at this age. Wade is probably as example of that.

      Paul George, career WS48 not including rookie season: .151
      Paul George, playoff WS48 not including rookie season: .155

      Adjust those stats for quality of competition etc..and I’m pretty sure George looks a lot better.

    54. yellowboy90

      I don’t see Paul George as a beast on defense. I think he is okay but his great defense left when Hibbert ability failed. He can still play the passing lanes but I think he is more rep than actual good play.

    55. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      I’m surprised at the lack of commentary on here about how “Family Melo”, who couldn’t bear a trade out of New York because of his beloved family, knocked up a stripper while being the Knick who said nyet.

    56. Philmelo

      Ntilikina is not like Mudiay. Both are African and are long point guards. That’s it. Mudiay went and skipped American college to play a few weeks in the same scrub ass Chinese league Marbury was rolling around in and then hit the draft. Ntilikina was a named “Best Young Player” in a French Pro league as a 17-18 year old and won the U18 MVP as an 18-19 year on a French championship team, the last two French MVPs being Tony Parker and Nicolas Batum. There is a very different pedigree here.

    57. stratomatic

      Ntilikina is not like Mudiay.

      Mudiay went and skipped American college to play a few weeks in the same scrub ass Chinese league Marbury was rolling around in and then hit the draft. Ntilikina was a named “Best Young Player” in a French Pro league as a 17-18 year old and won the U18 MVP as an 18-19 year on a French championship team, the last two French MVPs being Tony Parker and Nicolas Batum. There is a very different pedigree here.

      I pretty much disagree with everything.

      Mudiay was considered one of the best high school prospects around. He had a reputation as a future star and had agreed to play for Larry Brown at SMU when he later decided to skip college and go pro like Brandon Jennings (for money).

      Larry Brown was on record comparing him to John Wall and pondering what could have been if he played for him in college the way he originally intended. He was touting him strongly before the draft also. If you ask me, way more scouts and basketball people in the US knew Mudiay during his draft than know Ntilikina now and this draft is way deeper with guard talent .

    58. djphan

      mudiay likely would have struggled in college… his 2p fg% was always a red flag in the cba since bynum who was basically a 6th man posted vastly more efficient numbers there… he got a considerable amount of hype but he showed just enough where i think he was pretty overrated heading into the draft…

      ntilikina is more like exum… who also played overseas… wow’ed in a few u18 games…impressive measurables and that’s about it… the part that we have seen only trigger more questions… the big unknown with him is he really the kind of guy that hardly gets to the line and doesn’t even play pg? is his dribble too high and not quick enough? those might seem like small questions… but it s a major question with frank that i’m not sure anyone knows for sure…

    59. GoNyGoNyGo

      I’m surprised at the lack of commentary on here about how “Family Melo”, who couldn’t bear a trade out of New York because of his beloved family, knocked up a stripper while being the Knick who said nyet.

      I’ll comment … again.
      I once thought the world of Melo.
      I wanted him to be a Knick.
      I wanted Phil to resign him.
      I admired his BLM stance.

      Now I think of him as a slimy womanizer that cares nothing about his family, team or fans. He’s all about himself and I want him nowhere near the Knicks. He can go partner up with Stephan Marbury in China for all I care. I want him gone. He lost a big fan.

    60. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Now I think of him as a slimy womanizer

      Would you still feel the same way if he and La La had an open relationship and it were an accidental pregnancy?

    61. 2FOR18

      My favorite players include Bernard, Reggie and LT, so I don’t give a shit about melo cheating on his wife, just like I don’t give a shit about his family man narrative.

    62. ClashFan

      @69

      Best assume everyone in the NBA is a womanizer.

      What would the media say if Phil tweeted that?

    63. MSA

      I really don’t care where Carmelo is putting his dick. I don’t care if he is a great humanitarian or about his political opinions also.

      As long as he is not committing any felony, he can do whatever he wants.

      I don’t want him in my team because I don’t think he is a good player anymore and is driving this team to a spiral o mediocrity that seems to never ends.

      The rest doesn’t matter to me.

    64. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      It’s just the hypocrisy of him saying that he wouldn’t leave New York because of his devotion to his family while he was shtupping a stripper on the side.

    65. Frank

      The players Association Twitter account just sent out a picture of KP at their offices. I’m telling you guys, I honestly feel like there is a coup being planned by Melo and KP, supported by the players Association. Why would KP need to go to the players Association offices before leaving for Latvia?

      The whole thing just smells fishy. KP letting the missed exit interview leak after Phil’s totally tone deaf press conference. And KP pointedly not sticking around NYC for triangle camp. NBPA getting involved early. Now KP at NBPA offices for no obvious reason.

      KP has power. he wasn’t afraid to make his intentions known predraft. I feel like maybe he is trying to push Phil out now.

      Thoughts?

    66. Philmelo

      Not sure what their race has to do with anything. So I pretty much disagree with everything.

      It has nothing to do with it, that’s my exactly point. I’ve seen both names bandied about in comparisons and the reason is clear: they’re African (not a race by the way) and long (6’5 ft.).

      If you ask me, way more scouts and basketball people in the US knew Mudiay during his draft than know Ntilikina now and this draft is way deeper with guard talent .

      What basketball people in the US know and what is actually proven in international competition are two different things. Even by your own admission, Mudiay was a major project coming out of high school in the opposite way that Ntilikina’s a project. The former was an explosive, super athletic guard with poor instincts and the other known for having a very polished game at his age.

    67. Hugo Busto

      You guys are going to think I’m crazy but if you swapped Isiah Thomas and Melo, the Celtics would get better. Ignoring contracts and all that.
      AB/Smart/Crowder/Melo/Horford

      IT is just one of the worst defenders in the league. If they were to get PG13 or Butler I don’t even think Isiah would see the court in the 4th quarter.

    68. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @74 It sure feels like something is afoot. Since when is saying that maybe Melo would have more success elsewhere grounds for a labor action?

      If it’s true that KP has had his mind poisoned by Melo then maybe now is the time to trade him too.

    69. Philmelo

      ntilikina is more like exum… who also played overseas…

      Exum is the other sloppy comparison people make with Ntilikina. Exum was more of a slasher with a spotty jumper whereas Ntilikina’s got a way better jumper with out the explosiveness to the basket.

    70. er

      Now I think of him as a slimy womanizer that cares nothing about his family, team or fans.

      Wait are you still doing this in 2017? Lol

      If anything I would have thought that Tiger killed this….guess not

    71. 2FOR18

      Melo’s such an enigma. It seems like players universally love him and coaches universally hate him. I’m trying to think of another example of this to such an extreme.

    72. Accidentank 2017

      I sure hope something can be done about the incompetence going on in New York. Just for once I’d like to have a GM/Coach combination that understands analytics.

    73. Hugo Busto

      I mean I want Melo off the Knicks (if its a proper deal) but he is certainly likeable and can easily see why other players like him.

      1. He smiles
      2. He doesn’t flop
      3. He seems to be able to joke around with opposing players

    74. Accidentank 2017

      Melo is an Olympian with 3 gold medals and is the all time leader in points scored for the US (which kinda makes him an American hero) and a member of the NBPA’s executive board. You think Phil Jackson is gonna get away with dogging him? Phil doesn’t even vote, bro.

    75. Z-man

      Wait, are we suddenly getting all sanctimonious because Melo was involved in a sex scandal? If yes, I hope everyone who feels that way about him also review all the sports stars they loved that did the same thing. It’s a list that includes numerous HOFers and all-stars. Magic ring a bell? Kobe? Larry? Michael? Patrick? Tiger? And then there’s all who we don’t know about.

      What about entertainers in other fields? Politicians? Doctors? Lawyers? Teachers?

      There’s plenty to criticize Melo about. No need to trash him based on a tabloid report of consensual sex that resulted in an unintended pregnancy.

    76. er

      Melo’s such an enigma. It seems like players universally love him and coaches universally hate him. I’m trying to think of another example of this to such an extreme.

      It’s because players and coaches see the game differently. The players respect things like nasty crossovers and fadeaways for example. Also some ppl just make friends easily. I guess.

      The only time we’ve ever heard of melo into it with players was the Lin situation which was really unfair to him and he reacted stupidly and poorly to it

    77. er

      coaches universally hate him.

      I know Pop loves him. I wonder what he would have been like if was drafted to a team like San Antonio or the Pistons where he should have been drafted

    78. stratomatic

      What basketball people in the US know and what is actually proven in international competition are two different things. Even by your own admission, Mudiay was a major project coming out of high school in the opposite way that Ntilikina’s a project. The former was an explosive, super athletic guard with poor instincts and the other known for having a very polished game at his age.

      I don’t believe you are understanding the point I am making,

      The year Mudiay was drafted he was a major topic of conversation in the US. Some people thought he could even break into the top 3. Despite that he dropped to #7. He dropped because he was less scouted and that made him more of an unknown quantity. It was basically the same thing with Porzingis. He was less scouted than the US college players. Many executives had never even seen him play. So it was hard to take him ahead of Okafor or Russell based on a single workout or limited stats.

      Mudiay was more hyped and known from high school than Ntilikina is now and he still dropped to 7. When you combine that with the fact that he this is an especially deep guard draft, IMO it’s going to be even HARDER for executives to justify taking him when other quality guards are available. So my conclusion is that it’s likely we are going to see the same phenomenon and he will be available to NY at 7-8.

      That’s says nothing about my opinion of him. Like a lot of basketball executives I haven’t seen all his games (actually none in my case). I think highlight reels should be ignored totally. And I think the sample size of his stats is way too small to mean much of anything. I suspect a lot of executives are going to be similarly less sure what to make of him. That’s why I expect he will be available to NY unless he has some stunning workouts. If we select him, I hope NY has scouted him thoroughly because there’s little to go on other than hot air.

    79. Hugo Busto

      The whole NBA landscape would be different if Melo gets drafted to the Pistons. He would have been a perfect fit. Who knows if Bron and Bosh end up going to Miami. The entire Knicks would be completely different. Who knows if the Warriors happen.

      It’s silly to think about but people love to talk about “legacy”. And if he goes #2 a lot things may have turned out differently

    80. Hugo Busto

      Strato,

      I agree, I definitely think Frank will be available at #7. He has some home run potential down the line so I wouldn’t hate the pick.

      But I am still hoping for Fox

    81. nicos

      Hard to say Melo is universally despised by coaches- It seemed like he got along fine with Woodson and all of the Olympic coaches. Karl hated him but Karl seems to hate everybody. D’A had problems with him but that was mainly because Melo made it impossible for him to run ssol. Hornacek seemed disappointed in his defensive effort but I don’t think they were butting heads much during the season. I want Melo gone because he’s nowhere near good enough to justify his salary- the personal stuff is meaningless to me.

    82. er

      Does Kristaps love New York or the Knicks?

      I think it’s fair to say he likes Melo way more than the knicks

    83. stratomatic

      I sure hope something can be done about the incompetence going on in New York. Just for once I’d like to have a GM/Coach combination that understands analytics.

      I think everything will be fine once Melo is gone.

      Phil has been in a bit of a “timing” pickle. He has been trying to build a team of higher character younger players that fit the triangle while simultaneously keeping us competitive enough and moving forward fast enough to appease Melo’s timetable. Those goals caused conflict and lead to a couple of unforced errors last year (Rose and Noah). It’s 100% Phil’s fault for re-siging Melo and putting himself into this position to begin with, but it’s not an easy basketball or business decision to trade your “star” player before you know whether you can make it work. That’s spilled milk.

      Once Melo is gone the pace of progress and trying to make the playoffs will not be among the primary issues driving the decision making. He will no longer be trying to build around Melo while also bringing in young talent for the future. He will be thinking longer term. I think that’s going to make a huge difference. He may have been wrong about the gambles he took with Rose and Noah, but IMO, if Melo was not on the team, there is a 0% chance he would have done either of those deals.

    84. djphan

      @78 – i was more comparing their exposure and how they’ve basically gotten hyped based off of u18 tourney’s… which imo aren’t really indicative of much if they’ve dominated..

    85. Accidentank 2017

      Frank is a bad penetrator from what I’ve seen. That makes him a fit for us and Philly.

    86. Accidentank 2017

      Being wrong about Rose cost us nothing and I don’t really regret it. When Dwight Howard, Bismack Biyombo, and Hassan Whiteside are available, trading RoLo wasn’t the worst thing in the world. The Joakim Noah gaffe, though? Horrendous. And then the whole Kurt Rambis thing on top of that? You have to be kidding me with that shit.

      The Tyson Chandler trade was dumb as hell, too, especially when you consider that we could have had Jae Crowder in that deal. Then there was the Jason Smith signing. And the consistent bad talking his athletes and athletes that aren’t on his team. This NBPA intervention is a long time coming once you consider the Phil Files.

    87. Accidentank 2017

      That said, I like Courtney Lee, Kristaps Porzingis, Kyle O’Quinn, Willy Hernangomez, Maurice NDour, and Chasson Randle. I hope we trade Melo to Boston or Chicago for cap relief and then go after a bunch of young guys. I just don’t believe in Phil Jackson’s competency.

    88. Hugo Busto

      Jk47,

      To our earlier discussion

      I know you love ws48 but it’s a overrated stat.

      For example Gasol and David Lee have ridiculous ones this year.

      Gasol gets credit for the rest of the Spurs’ defense. DWS is calculated by first figuring out how good the defense is overall, and then giving out shares to each player based 25% on minutes, 50% on rebounds, and 25% on assists. The offensive formula is better but still has major flaws. WS are overrated

    89. Z-man

      Brandon Jennings looks fantastic. Look at the way he’s torching…

      …Jose Calderon and THJ!

    90. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      based 25% on minutes, 50% on rebounds, and 25% on assists

      You made this up.

    91. JK47

      WS48 is just sort of a shorthand stat and is far from a be-all, end-all metric. It’s convenient because you can easily find it on B-R, which is easily sortable and has regular/postseason splits and all that. I’m aware of its limitations.

      I still don’t believe that players radically morph into completely different players once the playoffs start.

    92. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      @104 I believe that most of us think that Isaac will be gone by pick 7. I can see Orlando or Minnesota taking him if he doesn’t go even higher.

    93. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Wait, are we suddenly getting all sanctimonious because Melo was involved in a sex scandal? If yes, I hope everyone who feels that way about him also review all the sports stars they loved that did the same thing. It’s a list that includes numerous HOFers and all-stars. Magic ring a bell? Kobe? Larry? Michael? Patrick? Tiger? And then there’s all who we don’t know about.

      What about entertainers in other fields? Politicians? Doctors? Lawyers? Teachers?

      There’s plenty to criticize Melo about. No need to trash him based on a tabloid report of consensual sex that resulted in an unintended pregnancy.

      Amen. When there are real villains out there (Baylor, Penn State, basically the whole NCAA and everyone who supports it), there’s no need to castigate someone for an alleged breach of contract with a romantic partner. There’s a lot of spiritual import invested into marriage, but ultimately, it’s a contract. Melo didn’t rape anyone or hide the rape from others. It’s a big deal for La La, his son, the stripper and her unborn child, but it’s not a big deal to your lives, people. Keep it that way.

    94. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      The Warriors are winning by 30 points in a fucking playoff game with their best player inactive.

      Oh, and three of their starters combined for 41 points on 40 FGA with 13 turnovers. Still up 32 with 6 minutes to go.

      I just don’t see how anyone beats this team at full strength. They are so, so, so good.

    95. Accidentank 2017

      Has there ever been a better Big 3 than Steph, KD, and Draymond?

      After the Jordan/Pippen/Rodman Bulls I can’t think of anyone.

    96. Brian Cronin

      Bird/McHale/Parrish were no slouches, nor were Wilt/Baylor/West nor Magic/Kareem/Worthy.

    97. bobneptune

      Why are t we talking about Isaac as the bpa at 7?

      Because it doesn’t matter what we think, only what the 6 or so GM’s above us think. And there is a non trivial chance we might be picking above 7-10. Also Steph Curry. Jonny Flynn was picked before Step Curry, so you never really know what will happen.

    98. bobneptune

      Wait, are we suddenly getting all sanctimonious because Melo was involved in a sex scandal?

      No one is getting sanctimonious about Me7o dropping his johnson into any warm room, rather just calling him out for being a consistently phony fucker about being such a family man that he doesn’t want to be traded due to his family considerations while he’s not exactly acting like a prototypical family man.

      No one with half a brain cares about his sex life, politics or anything else other than his ability to play basketball. Which actually isn’t anything above ordinary today.

      He has been a complete underachiever for his career in everything other than making money ( not insignificant) and self aggrandizement. The only time he played with any energy as a Knick was when under Woodson he was allowed unfettered access to pounding the ball as he pleased and had a far superior yet unobtrusive teammate to carry the load for him, surrounded by some excellent, complimentary role players.

      When Lin was playing out of his ass, Melo couldn’t stand that a Chinese brainiac was upstaging him and sabotaged the team and coach. He refuses to play a complete game in the triangle because it doesn’t “feature” him.

      Fuck Me7o. Fuck him where he breathes. Hopefully it costs him a couple of hundred million so he will want the extra money for the trade kicker.

    99. er

      pleased and had a far superior yet unobtrusive teammate to carry the load for him,

      Sorry to quote your “fuck melo” soliloquy but this statement is bullshit and you know it. Also you know your rant is funny because you were just looking for an excuse to write it. The Lin thing is also bullshit because the Knicks won with both of them. It was Lin who refused to play in the playoffs.

    100. Z-man

      I’m no big fan of Melo, but believe that for the most part he played hard and played hurt. He’s just not suited for being the “brain” or the “heart” of a great team.

      Who’s the best player Melo has played with since the Tyson Chandler trade?

      Who is the best player other than Tyson Chandler that Melo has played with since becoming a Knick?

      Yes, it’s his fault for wanting $$$ more than wins, but we essentially got what he was in Denver (actually his WS48 and PER are both higher in NY) so it’s not his fault that NY was dumb enough to trade their whole team for him and then sign him to a dumb NTC deal.

      As to being a family man, many excellent parents are lousy spouses. Bill Clinton is a good example. So are a bunch of other notable figures. Tiger is apparently awesome to his kids, while Larry Bird apparently totally disavowed his love child. I’m not gonna judge him on his parenting or the reasons he gave for staying in NYC. None of us are perfect.

    101. bobneptune

      pleased and had a far superior yet unobtrusive teammate to carry the load for him,

      Sorry to quote your “fuck melo” soliloquy but this statement is bullshit and you know it. Also you know your rant is funny because you were just looking for an excuse to write it. The Lin thing is also bullshit because the Knicks won with both of them. It was Lin who refused to play in the playoffs.

      Read better!

      I was talking about Chandler being the far better player. Lin came later. I don’t think the fact Chandler being a far more valuable player is arguable.

      Jean Dixon, you ain’t…..

    102. stratomatic

      Being wrong about Rose cost us nothing and I don’t really regret it.

      I disagree. Lopez is on an attractive contract. It’s not going to be easy to use Rose’s cap space and fill it with an equally attractive contract. Second, it lead to the Noah signing.

      I think I understand Phil’s thinking on a lot of the trades where he gave something up and seemingly didn’t get equal value back. He is thinking of cap space as an asset. He compares the player/contract he is giving up to any cap space he might be gaining sooner. So even if he gets hot garbage back for a good player, if it clears cap space sooner he’s thinking about the value of the player he will put into that space and not necessarily what he’s getting back. He didn’t want JR Smith for a variety of reasons. He thought Shump was too injury prone and not worth the contract he was going to get. He thought Chandler was starting to decline and wanted out of NY. He got very little back in terms of players, but he made no major commitments in terms of space. They generally moved cap space forward.

    103. er

      I was talking about Chandler being the far better player

      No shit. Explain going 12-4 without him in 12-13 then?

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