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Wednesday, September 20, 2017

Knicks Morning News (2017.04.11)

  • [SNY Knicks] Rise of Hernangomez offered glimmer of hope in Knicks’ lost season
    (Monday, April 10, 2017 1:30:16 PM)

    Coming into the season, Willy Hernangomez was regarded as a raw prospect who would need time to develop and make the necessary adjustments in his game.

  • [NYPost] Ron Baker’s growth makes easy Knicks decision much trickier
    (Monday, April 10, 2017 5:08:49 PM)

    The odds of making an NBA roster were slim. Getting consistent playing time as a rookie were even lower. So when Ron Baker — the undrafted former Wichita State star who was so under-the-radar out of high school he initially was a walk-on — says he feels “fortunate” to be where he is, it isn’t…

  • [NYTimes] The N.B.A.’s Best Games to Watch as a Streaky Season Comes to an End
    (Monday, April 10, 2017 3:38:08 PM)

    There are still some regular-season threads to tie up before the playoffs begin this month.

  • [NY Newsday] Jeff Hornacek isn’t used to playing out the string
    (Monday, April 10, 2017 11:12:48 PM)

    Not having meaningful games during the last couple of weeks and not getting ready for the playoffs is something Jeff Hornacek doesn’t like experiencing.

  • [NYDN] 8 moments that define Carmelo Anthony’s Knicks legacy
    (Monday, April 10, 2017 10:16:01 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony may have already played his final game as a member of the Knicks.

  • 89 comments on “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.11)

    1. Zanzibar

      It’s so great to be playing meaningful games at this time versus last season. Game 82 will be our Game 7. Two years ago the Wolves hunted us down at the end. Result: A Flatlined Latvian instead of KAT. Let’s not blow it this time if want Markelle or Lonzo Ball Don’t Lie. Most important preparation is to hire the best Spanish-English translator and make sure Willy understands the meaning of the work “tank”.

      Jerian Grant Alert: TS 56% WS/48 = .118. That’s the 3rd highest on Chicago and would be the 3rd highest on NYK after KOQ and Willy. Decent stats for a guy who just “stands in the corner and trips over himself”. We could really improve our team if we could teach our youngins how to stand in the corner and the proper way to trip over oneself.

    2. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      Jerian Grant was destined to become good as soon as the Knicks traded him for an overrated injury prone chucker with bad knees

    3. DS

      Jerian Grant? Rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic… speaking of which: I’m skimming through advanced stats and Wake Forest’s John Collins’ (tiny wingspan aside) #’s look great. Obviously he’s out of range for the Knicks but he might be a nice pickup for someone.

    4. TheOakmanCometh

      Now that Philly and Orlando lost last night, Game 82 might be meaningless if both Sac and Minny win tonight.

      Of course, both will probably lose tonight, followed by us beating Philly to fall into a 3-way tie for 6th, because Knicks.

    5. TheOakmanCometh

      I don’t want to see any of Willy tomorrow. Not one minute. I want 40 minutes of Plumlee and 40 of Sasha. Anyone that has a hot hand should be yanked immediately. Don’t even bother hiding it. Have KOQ bring the ball up and have Baker guard Saric.

    6. Philmelo

      Two years ago the Wolves hunted us down at the end. Result: A Flatlined Latvian instead of KAT.

      This quote perfectly encapsulates why Knicks fans can never have any nice things. Instead of appreciating that we picked one of the top 3 players in that draft at #4 slot or recognizing that we could have just have easily won a shot at Russell or Okafor with another win almost as easily as we could have picked KAT, we have to complain about a “flatlined Latvian” who has, by all accounts, exceeded his draftday expectations.

    7. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      Hey, is it just possible that Jim Dolan had Charles Oakley forcibly removed from his seat because he overbooks his Garden events just like the airlines do?

    8. chrisconley

      Is it possible that we’d be better off picking 8th? I think most on this board would prefer Frank to Monk (I certainly would). At 8, Monk will probably be gone and Phil would likely go Frank. But at 6? I know folks on here like Fox (as do I), but I bet Phil would take Monk over Fox.

    9. DRed

      The idea that Phil won’t sign guards who can’t shoot because triangle is demonstrably false.

    10. Philmelo

      The reason we can’t have nice things is called James Dolan

      Its one half of the problem, but it absolves the fandom from their own bullshit. Too many fans say they want to build a contender from the ground up but dismiss the players while they develop. Then people wonder why its often said that NYC fans lack the patience to build the traditional way.

    11. Philmelo

      @14

      Franchises often kowtow to the whims of their fan bases. For decades the Knicks have always been about the quick retool instead of the patient rebuild. The fanbase has enabled it.

    12. thenoblefacehumper

      What specific moves can be attributed to Knicks fans losing patience with young players? The problem has always been that we don’t have any because the morons traded all our draft picks away. I think Knicks fans have actually been perfectly patient, optimistic even, about almost every young player who has wound up here.

      A couple of dudes on a message board wishing we had KAT instead or Porzingis (which, duh) doesn’t signify some enormous trend that causes the Knicks to suck. They do that all on their own.

    13. Jack Bauer

      Somehow I am not really missing Jerian Grant on the Knicks. I could be wrong but I don’t think he’d be a real difference maker moving forward no matter what is WS indicates now.

    14. Philmelo

      What specific moves can be attributed to Knicks fans losing patience with young players?

      How many Knicks fans cheered when we traded Grant for Rose? How many cheered the Stephon Marbury trade? How many clamored for the Melo trade?

    15. swiftandabundant

      I really hate blaming the fans. The Knicks have always had loyal fans and rightfully so. They won 2 championships back in the day and were always contenders in the 90s. Its New York too, so any long standing professional sports franchise that has had success in the past is going to have a loyal fan base. And whatever fans say or write about on blogs should have ZERO impact on the decisions of management. Plus, at this point we’ve been irrelevant for 17 years (sans a 3 year mini relevance window a few years back). Any rebuild from the ground up that they could have initiated years ago would have been over by now. And rebuilding is ALWAYS a part of the cycle of relevance for a franchise (unless you’re the spurs). Comparing it to other NYC sports teams like the Yankees is dumb too cause they don’t have a salary cap. If there was no salary cap in the NBA I would have no problem not rebuilding through the draft. And the draft is not a guaranteed thing. But blaming the fans for trading away first round picks year after year is not fair to the fans. I don’t remember fans going “oh shit we got Eddie Curry now!”

      Fans want a team that competes and tries hard. If they are all super young players and are near last but they put it all out on the line every night and the future looks bright bc of the potential, fans can get behind that. They also can get behind teams built solely through trades and free agency if the team gets the right players and they compete. That is all fans care about. A team that competes and hope for the future. There is a balance between the two. If a team looks capped out like the 2012 Knicks did but they are winning 54 games, the fans are cool. If a team is losing but has young prospects, tries hard and has future picks and room to grow, fans are cool.

    16. Philmelo

      The fan loyalty is precisely the problem. Forget the blogs, they support the continual win now mentality of this franchise through ticket and merchandise sales.

    17. thenoblefacehumper

      How many Knicks fans cheered when we traded Grant for Rose? How many cheered the Stephon Marbury trade? How many clamored for the Melo trade?

      These were moves the front office decided to make that fans then blindly cheered, as 100% of fan bases have a tendency to do. It’s not like there was some huge campaign for the Knicks to make the Rose trade, in fact it all happened pretty quickly. There was pressure to make the Melo trade, but what do you think fans would’ve done had it not happened? Not go to games? They sold out MSG every night when the Knicks were a 17 win team, they’d get over not trading for Carmelo Anthony (and maybe just signing him as a free agent that offseason instead).

      Blaming the “impatience” of the fanbase is exactly what Dolan wants people to do. It serves his “you can’t rebuild in New York” narrative perfectly. Yet we’re the most valuable franchise in the sport despite being mostly awful for two decades.

    18. thenoblefacehumper

      Westbrook resting tonight against Minnesota! We might have one more chance to be allowed to root for the Knicks tomorrow.

    19. djphan

      there’s nothing wrong with having expectations for players.. young or old… it can get vitriolic and unjustified at times as we all witnessed with the ewing era… but for the most part if kp’s development curve stagnated then there’s nothing wrong with calling it out…

      and even then it’s not the end of the world… plenty of great players have hit speed bumps in their second year… but the third year is usually when you find out if you really have something in a player.. if kp doesn’t deliver then imo it’s entirely fair to question why that is and it might not have anything to do with him…. and if it is then ppl will talk about it…

      this isn’t like charlotte or miami or even a place like indiana… this is new york… and with all that in mind i do think kp has been treated with kid gloves by the fanbase as with all the young players we’ve had in general… i can’t even remember the last young player that got continually lambasted no matter what he did other than charlie ward…

    20. Philmelo

      Blaming the “impatience” of the fanbase is exactly what Dolan wants people to do. It serves his “you can’t rebuild in New York” narrative perfectly. Yet we’re the most valuable franchise in the sport despite being mostly awful for two decades.

      Why do you think the Knicks are so valuable? Because stupid fans go along with his win now model. Its precisely my point.

    21. Philmelo

      if kp doesn’t deliver then imo it’s entirely fair to question why that is and it might not have anything to do with him…. and if it is then ppl will talk about it…

      Except when you get into the mindset that we didn’t get player X we just got the consolation prize.

    22. geo

      the feeling has been building for a while now – but, more and more i’m really looking forward to wednesday and this season to be over…

    23. Silky Johnson, Fleet Admiral of the Tank Armada

      I’m pretty sure by those standards literally every fan base goes along with whatever ownership does and can be blamed for poor outcomes.

      “Knicks fans are unwilling to mass boycott” is an unrealistic criticism and explanation for why the Knicks are bad. They’re bad because management is incompetent, just like how every other bad sports franchise is bad because management is incompetent, irrespective of fan loyalties.

    24. djphan

      Except when you get into the mindset that we didn’t get player X we just got the consolation prize.

      doesn’t every team do that? do you think even a place like portland doesn’t rue the oden over durant pick?

    25. SJK

      Why do you think the Knicks are so valuable? Because stupid fans go along with his win now model. Its precisely my point.

      You are right that there is significant population of stupid fans that go along with the win-now model, but correlation does not imply causation. The Knicks are so valuable because they play in the biggest media market in the world. Period, full stop.

      Basketball in New York City will always be an attraction, no matter how horribly the team is playing. The Knicks could go out this off-season, dump every single player on their roster, call up the Westchester D-League team to play for them and they would still sell out all their games next year.

      I would wager that the proportion of stupid Knicks fans is about the same as stupid fans of every other team. The difference is that in a market like Milwaukee, if your team sucks, you won’t sell tickets and you lose money. Not so in New York.

    26. Brian Cronin

      So Jimmer is finished with his season in China. The fascinating thing about that is that he’s actually eligible to play in the postseason because he wasn’t on the roster of an NBA team on March 1st, so that’d be pretty funny, wouldn’t it? Dude plays in China all year and then suddenly is on a playoff team.

    27. thenoblefacehumper

      Why do you think the Knicks are so valuable? Because stupid fans go along with his win now model. Its precisely my point.

      You’ve said:
      1) There’s too much pressure from fans to do stupid things
      2) There’s too little pressure from fans, so stupid things keep getting done

      2 is probably correct, but the same could be said about any big-market team. The money will always be there so it’s up to ownership/the front office to find another incentive to not be stupid.

    28. Bo Nateman

      In 1979,the NY Football Giants after 16 lousy seasons and fan unrest were pressured by Pete Rozelle to hire a competent manager, who turned out to be George Young. He hired Bill Parcells and drafted Phil Simms and Lawrence Taylor and the franchise was turned around. There was bad blood in the Mara family which probably led to Rozelle’s intervention. That context doesn’t exist here, though it did with Lakers. Wonder if Silver had back channel communications with Jennie Buss. Hard to imagine that Silver would intervene and undermine Jackson.
      On a more positive note, let’s hope that Melo has played his last game as a Knick

    29. Philmelo

      doesn’t every team do that? do you think even a place like portland doesn’t rue the oden over durant pick?

      Mainly because they chose Greg Oden, who was a monumental bust.

    30. Philmelo

      You’ve said:
      1) There’s too much pressure from fans to do stupid things
      2) There’s too little pressure from fans, so stupid things keep getting done

      I said the fans enable stupid things because impatience of our fanbase fuels the team’s win now mentality. I also said that our fans turn on home grown players too quick. I don’t know where you get the idea that I say the fans pressure the front office to do stupid things. Dolan is a moron, but he’s allowed carte blanche by a fanbase that supports this franchise’s every stupid move no matter what.

    31. geo

      On a more positive note, let’s hope that Melo has played his last game as a Knick

      i am cautiously optimistic that this just may be true…no way for the knicks to move forward with melo still on the team…

    32. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      On a more positive note, let’s hope that Melo has played his last game as a Knick

      i am cautiously optimistic that this just may be true…no way for the knicks to move forward with melo still on the team…

      We’d be lucky just to get Austin Rivers for him. Theo was right.

    33. swiftandabundant

      I think Melo is gone. He hinted at this much. I think a mid season move was tough not just for the team to move him but also for him to do personally (more media attention and uprooting his family). Off season it won’t be as big of a deal to move him (by the time the season starts people will focus on other things) and moving his family is easier.

      I still say he ends up a Clipper. We get Rivers and some picks in the future out of it.

    34. Reub On Our Way To Greatness

      “the feeling has been building for a while now – but, more and more i’m really looking forward to wednesday and this season to be over…”

      geo, stay strong. The team needs you even more in the offseason than in the regular season. This is when we are at our most exciting, striving for greatness and renewal.

    35. geo

      to be honest reub…i gave up a while ago – about the time when i realized it was more beneficial for us to lose than win…

      i enjoy though reading what you all write :-)

      a lot of really smart, well educated, passionate knick fans come here to spend their time – i appreciate that…

      plus, without fail, someone will write something that’ll having me laughing like crazy just about each and every day…

      in my younger, more hormonally rage filled days – i used to live and die with the success/failure of the knicks (yanks and g-men too)…i’ve reached that stage in life where i have more than enough other stuff going on to be concerned with…perspective i guess…

      i understand things are never quite as bad or good as they may seem at times…most importantly – nothing i do personally will have even an infinitesimal affect on what happens next with the knicks…

      i’m in a good place reub…and, now that i’ve managed to finally stop just lurking here at this site and i’ve begun kicking in from time to time with some of my thoughts – i ‘m really looking forward to next season…

    36. geo

      looking back i feel sad to say – i bought in to a lot of rose’s professional athlete “speak” prior to the season beginning and early on in the season…

      took a while to realize that what he was saying didn’t gel with how he was playing…

    37. thenoblefacehumper

      OKC is basically resting their whole team tonight. The Wolves do often manage to pull off feats of incredible sucktitude but even they will have a hard time losing. If the Kings can beat the Suns as well we can root for the Knicks to win tomorrow, which would feel weird.

    38. the don nelson era

      I hadn’t looked at tankathon in a couple days and the Lakers have won 4 straight. What’s the matter with them?!

      Also, the Knicks seem to have secured #6. Despite the roller coaster final month where #4 seemed in reach, I would’ve happily signed up for that at the ASB.

    39. Brian Cronin

      I think Melo is gone. He hinted at this much

      He hints at it every year. :) It never happens. Of course, eventually he will leave. I just wouldn’t count him gone until he’s literally gone.

    40. TheOakmanCometh

      Kings and Wolves have good chances to win tonight. That would really take the load off tomorrow, because you know we’re beating Philly.

    41. Brian Cronin

      They’re definitely not secured for #6, but come on, the odds are really good that the Kings and Wolves each win one of their last two games.

      Plus, who knows, the Knicks might even lose to the Sixers!

    42. Brian Cronin

      I wonder if the Raptors would intentionally lose tomorrow night in the hopes that they avoid Cleveland in the second round.

    43. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      Somehow I am not really missing Jerian Grant on the Knicks. I could be wrong but I don’t think he’d be a real difference maker moving forward no matter what is WS indicates now.

      He’s not really much of a difference maker; he’s just better than the player he was traded for, and at something like 7% the cost.

    44. Zanzibar

      Why in the world would we play our 2 best players Willy and KOQ tomorrow and I’m not just talking about tanking. What if one of them suffers a freak injury like an ACL tear? They’re both under contract for next season. If you say well they won’t be playing all out so that’s not likely, OK then what is gained in terms of extra experience in that type of situation? It’s only one game so i don’t think that would bother Silver.

    45. Zanzibar

      Somehow I am not really missing Jerian Grant on the Knicks. I could be wrong but I don’t think he’d be a real difference maker moving forward no matter what is WS indicates now.

      He’s not really much of a difference maker; he’s just better than the player he was traded for, and at something like 7% the cost.

      Why does every player have to be a difference maker? We should be focused on developing young above average players for our future. They could end up being effective rotation players or possibly be included in a trade for a difference maker in the future.

    46. geo

      go horny:

      When asked to assess Anthony’s season, Hornacek praised the forward’s offense but intimated that he needed to improve defensively.

      “I think he played more games than I probably anticipated, knowing that he was getting older, with his knee,” Hornacek said of the 32-year-old Anthony, who has played in 73 games this season. “… Obviously he can score the ball. He can put it in the hole. He’s a guy along with Derrick [Rose] that late in games, veteran guys, that you can go to. They came through sometimes.

    47. DRed

      If we’d been smart and kept Grant instead of Rose, and NYK Grant played mostly like Bulls Grant (a reasonable assumption, but not a given), we’d have something like 2-5 more wins by my guesstimate. So it would not have mattered, in some sense, and you could argue pretty convincingly its in the best interest of this team to suck this year. But wed also at least have backup PG filled for the next few years for cheap. And if Grant’s a league average PG-a possibility-we’d even be in better shape. Instead we got Rose. Grant’s definitely replaceable, but we don’t have a lot of good options for replacing him

    48. Z-man

      Minny is in pitifully obvious tank mode. I’m looking at play-by-play on my computer and it seems like they are literally handing the ball to OKC and letting them score even if it takes 2-3 shots. Wiggins is a one-man tank squad.

    49. danvt

      I think the only way we get Melo off the team is to buy him out and cut him. No one is paying him 30 large and giving us anything (or nothing). I’m thinking we just should have taken Jamal at the ASB and at least saved some $.
      Do we take his full cap hit if we buy him out, Brian? Yes? OK. Let’s face it fellas, he’s Arod.
      I think he’s better off the team even if we have to pay his full freight.
      If someone takes his salary and we get players back that aren’t sunk costs I’ll consider this off season a success.
      I think we keep Noah for a year as he at least is a “winning type” player who can give the young guys a boost. Next off season maybe he should go too.
      It kills me that BOS gets BKLYN’s pick.
      It kills me that I’ve had to root against NYK.
      Not sad that we didn’t trade KOQ and CLee. I like this roster except for three players. Happy to say bye to Drose. If Melo and Noah were sunsetting I’d be pretty psyched for the future. Those contracts really hurt, though, obviously, and I’m afraid we’re fukt for the next two years at least.
      Screw you, Dolan. What an idiot. His antics are downright shameful and NO I’M NOT AN ALCOHOLIC.

    50. Cock Jowles, The Nostradumbass Who Still Beat Your Weak Preseason Picks

      Yeah, I’d probably take a fitter, happier, more productive tank than 2-5 wins and Jerian Grant for $2M AAV over 2 years.

    51. Z-man

      OKC should be thinking “we don’t want a team in our division to get a #1 pick, let’s lose to these guys!”

    52. Brian Cronin

      Do we take his full cap hit if we buy him out, Brian?

      They could stretch waive him, so he’d count roughly $10 million against the cap each year for five years.

    53. Z-man

      I would never buy him out until after the trade deadline in his contract year. If he’s gonna count against the cap anyway, just bench him and tell him to keep away from the team. Let him rot.

    54. Brian Cronin

      I would never buy him out until after the trade deadline in his contract year. If he’s gonna count against the cap anyway, just bench him and tell him to keep away from the team. Let him rot.

      Yeah, I don’t think I’d like to have him on the cap that long.

    55. Accidentank 2017

      Melo ain’t going nowhere he doesn’t want to be and we ain’t buying him out either.

      I wouldn’t be surprised to see us trade Melo to Boston (and the threat of Melo to Boston could get Cleveland to blink). We can offer Melo and our 2017 1st for the Nets pick and whatever contracts to make the deal work. If the Knicks want Markelle Fultz this is what they need to do.

      I’m also counting on Cleveland getting its ass kicked throughout the NBA playoffs before finally getting embarrassed against Golden State. Watching Draymond Green assault Kevin Love nightly is going to make LeBron scream for Melo. And then Stephen A Smith will be calling for LeBron to get Melo every day of the summer until Melo is actually a Cavalier. If Love is on the table, I’m sure we can get any of Miami, Phoenix, and even Minnesota to offer us assets in return for Love’s services.

      I’m still upset with the way Phil Jackson handled this season, and I even saw him in a New York restaurant discussing basketball with Charley Rosen about a month ago. I also believe he should have offered Hassan Whiteside a max contract and signed Seth Curry and Lance Stephenson, that the Knicks had enough assets to build a winning team around Melo, and that Phil Jackson has done a shitty job with every asset he’s had outside of the 2015 NBA draft. In fairness to him, though, I’m very happy with all of Randle, NDour, Kyle O’Quinn, Hernangomez, Courtney Lee, and Kristaps Porzingis. Let’s hope this reign of error ends soon and we can add some more good players this summer.

      Oh, and start the Hamidou Diallo hype train. Native New Yorker, super tough, super athletic, and has some serious game. I’m hoping we can draft him in 2018 to complete the youth rebuild.

    56. MSA

      Amazing how KAT became a total zero on defense under Thibs.

      He’s looking like Amare trying to defend a pick and roll.

    57. TheOakmanCometh

      Minnesota is embarrassing itself in this game and over the last few weeks. They’re not even tanking! They’re trying to win!

    58. thenoblefacehumper

      Welp, it all comes down to tomorrow. Would be a shame if Willy contracted the flu.

    59. GoldClub

      I think Melo is gone. He hinted at this much

      Melo is like herpes…just because he is not a festering blister doesn’t mean he is gone.

    60. TheOakmanCometh

      Noah — broken down husk
      Rose — broken down husk
      Deng — broken down husk

      I feel like those three have something in common, but what…..?

    61. Hugo Busto

      Can someone explain why the Brooklyn Nets are resting their starters tomorrow vs the Bulls? Am I missing something here?

      edit- wow they get the pacers 2nd rounder if the pacers make the playoffs and chicago winning helps that

    62. Brian Cronin

      So it looks like one-way tie for #6 will be the worst case scenario. I can live with that.

    63. rama

      That actually seems possible to me. It would explain the free throw issues and the recently poor finishing near the hoop.

    64. Philmelo

      Amazing how KAT became a total zero on defense under Thibs.

      He’s looking like Amare trying to defend a pick and roll.

      Speaking of which, he’s become horrendously bad manning center defense. He’s the worst center in the entire NBA in defensive real plus minus by far. Like there are 70 centers, of that group 10 have a negative defensive impact. Of that 10 Towns is the worst on per minute basis by .16 margin. He’s worse than Okafor, Kanter, Jefferson, and Boris Diaw.

    65. Accidentank 2017

      Ty Lawson is 5’9″ and led his team in rebounds tonight. Yeah, I think I’ve lost a ton of respect for the modern triple double. Damn sure ain’t what it used to be.

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