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Wednesday, May 22, 2019

Game Thread: Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks

Game Thread: Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks

Start Time: 10/31/2018 20:00:00

Knicks hope to get on track vs. Pacers

After dropping their first home game of the season, the Indiana Pacers venture to the perhaps even friendly confines of Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night as they face a New York Knicks team that has lost five of seven to open the season.
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Pre Game Links:

  • [msn.com] Pacers link: Pacers back on the road to face Knicks
  • [foxsports.com] Pacers look to overcome rough shooting night in visit to Knicks
  • [heavy.com] Knicks Roster & Starting Lineup vs. Pacers
  • [cbssports.com] Knicks hope to get on track vs. Pacers
  • [nypost.com] There is a pattern to the Knicks’ Over/Unders so far
  • [sports.yahoo.com] Three at 3: Underdog Nets Offer Great Value Against Knicks
  • [madduxsports.com] NBA on ESPN Wednesday Betting: Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks
  • [sportsbookreview.com] Knicks Cannot Keep Pace With Indiana in ESPN Wednesday Opener
  • Liked it? Take a second to support Mike Kurylo on Patreon!

    167 comments on “Game Thread: Indiana Pacers at New York Knicks

    1. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      Melo – The Gift that Keeps on Giving…

      Strangely enough, I’ve never had a woman specifically ask me to give her my cold sores and then vehemently defend her decision while there’s a huge blister covering her top lip…

    2. abk

      RE: Durant, I think signing him is a no-brainer:

      – He’s a top 5 NBA player. He’ll likely decline throughout the contract, but is probably a surplus value over the max salary at minimum two of the four years, potentially three or even all four. Might he be not worth his salary in year 4? Sure, but that hardly outweighs the huge value in the first three years.
      – You’d be paying for his age 31-34 seasons. Lebron is currently 33. Would you not have signed Lebron to a 4 year deal before the 2016-2017 season? I think that’s silly. A 32 year old first-ballot Hall of Famer is generally still immensely valuable. This isn’t STAT or Kemba Walker.
      – As noted in the previous thread, adding a top 5 star immediately makes you a playoff team. Add KP and we’re talking 50 wins. One smart move or breakout young player and you’re in the mix with the Raptors.
      – Even if Durant doesn’t work with the Knicks, he’s still such a huge surplus value in trade you could likely flip him for multiple first rounders after 1-2 years.
      -Extremely high entertainment and business value. For that reason alone, I’m sure the Knicks will offer him the max regardless of the match with our win curve. In fact, I’d be surprised if they didn’t offer the max to someone like Kemba as well for the same reason.

    3. 2FOR18, understands math

      I swear I knew somebody would say something like that, though I thought it would be worse.

      This line-up warms my heart. It is exactly what they should be doing; it’s so anti-hornicekean:
      *Indicates players expected to start in this game

      C: Mitchell Robinson*, Enes Kanter
      PF: Noah Vonleh*, Luke Kornet
      SF: Damyean Dotson*, Mario Hezonja, Lance Thomas
      SG: Tim Hardaway Jr.*, Allonzo Trier, Ron Baker
      PG: Frank Ntilikina*, Trey Burke, Emmanuel Mudiay

      Horny would roll out Burke, Chuck, Mario, Lance and Kanter.

    4. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      I wouldn’t be in favor of adding Durant unless I knew once he’s here that we could flip some combination of TH2, Kevin Knox, and a protected version of 2020’s 1RP for a guy like Dame Lillard/CJ McCollum or Kyle Lowry depending on how things develop for either team (i.e. if Portland gets beat in the 1st round again or if Kawhi Leonard decides he wants to be a Clipper).

    5. The Glass Half Rebuilt

      In fairness to Jeff Hornacek, I think he was given an extremely raw deal as our head coach. It’s his fault for agreeing to do Phil’s bidding and then he was coaching for his job in a year where management was hitting the reset button, but you kinda have to play your vets over the young guys if you’re coaching to win. Hopefully he gets a job on Steve Kerr’s staff sooner than later

    6. geo

      Z-man
      October 31, 2018 at 7:00 pm
      @7 finally a post from 2FOR18 I can agree with…

      i absolutely abhor the term lol…it gets totally misused all the time…however – that shit was in fact worthy of causing me to laugh out loud…

    7. Cock Jowles, #1 Purveyor of Wanton Chuckery

      that shit was in fact worthy of causing me to laugh out loud…

      same lol

    8. GoNyGoNyGo

      Durant is a piece we would add as a centerpiece to win the NBA championship. KP and Durant is a scary front court and I salivate about having Robinson playing with them. Maybe we’re seeing the maturation of Hardaway, Dotson and Ntilikina. If they continue to show dramatically improved play, then maybe Durant is that piece. On the other hand, I remain skeptical, as any sane Knicks fan should be, about that kind of improvement. If that’s the case, we’re not ready to add Durant.

      Does anyone here feel bad for Houston? Not me. DaAntoni, Harden, CP3 and Melo and they’re 1-5? That’s a rough start. I think that 3 ISO players on a team is not a good formula? All of CP3’s shooting percentages are down but he’s still putting up the same number of points.

    9. abk

      We also have their second round pick this year. Would be nice if it’s in the mid-forties rather than #59. Hopefully they don’t trade for Jimmy Butler soon.

    10. 2FOR18, understands math

      I’d pay to see melo’s body language while Dantoni is speaking in the locker room

    11. Frank O.

      I love that Vonleh tried to flush that, and I loved the block.
      How many years would we watch a Knick try to bank that shot rather than exploding for the jam?

    12. Ntilakilla

      They’re killing us on the switches. Frank not being able to work around the screener is hurting us on defense because they’re so strong on the block.

    13. Ntilakilla

      If Kanter wonders why he isn’t starting we can always point to his work in this game against Sabonis and Turner as proof why.

    14. Ntilakilla

      Down only by 3 despite turning it over six times and allowing the Pacers to shoot 46% percent.

      I will take it.

    15. DRed

      Sabonis seems to be the rare case of a guy who actually did come in to camp in the best shape of his life.

      We’re lucky to be down only 3.

    16. d-mar

      How does Sabonis only play 7 minutes in the 1st half??? He had 15 points and 7 rebounds, extrapolate that out and he could have like 100 points and 50 rebounds!

    17. Ntilakilla

      @38

      Just like Oladipo, he’s got three fouls. Pacers foul a lot. They’re very aggressive on defense so I see that this is a byproduct of design, but it has cost them some free throws.

    18. Clyde's suit

      Sabonis really really made our boy Kanter look bad on D. It’s clear that Kanter gives effort so I don’t really understand why he is so unbelievably poor on defense. Is it a lack of lateral quickness? Whatever, he is terrible!

      Our team may not win this game but I’m loving the effort and they are truly enjoyable to watch for the first time in years!

    19. Jack Bauer

      Nice first half, I’m surprised they’re playing so well against a good team. Tremendous block by MitchRob on Mitchell, that was highlight reel worthy. Vonleh and Frank are playing well and with confidence.

    20. Ntilakilla

      Vonleh is posting Draymondesque type numbers in this first half.

      2-3 FGA, 1-1 3pA, 7 REB, 1 AST, 2 BLK, 9 PT.

    21. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      For a short period of time I flirted with the idea that Kanter might be somewhat improved. I was wrong. He’s still a boxscore star and a bad player in the real world.

    22. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Hardaway is still going to drive me nuts a few times every night, but I sense some small degree of improved maturity.

    23. Ntilakilla

      Frank should’ve finished that. Ah well, he’s gotten into the pain on the screen a few times this half. Good stuff.

    24. Clyde's suit

      Hardaway has his flaws but his offense is sorely needed on the Knicks current roster of available players and with a really good point guard and Porzi back in the lineup, he might actually become a more efficient scorer.

    25. Clyde's suit

      Frankie has passed up a LOT of open shots tonight. Really need this kid take advantage of his open looks more frequently.

    26. d-mar

      I really don’t get the point of Frank dribbling over mid court and passing to Vonleh at the top of the 3 point circle

    27. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Frank with a beautiful pass to Kanter who blows the layup. Kanter gets the offensive rebound off his miss and scores the 2 points. Frank gets no credit for the pass but Kanter gets credit for 2 points AND an offensive rebound – all for blowing the play.

    28. Owen

      I could watch this team lose 60 games and still enjoy it. Young, they try hard, with a bunch of likable guys.

    29. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I am beginning to wonder whether I’ve been too harsh about Hardaway, who is, after all, just 26.

    30. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Derrick Rose having flashbacks tonight.

    31. rama, king of superfluous poppycock

      I could watch this team lose 60 games and still enjoy it. Young, they try hard, with a bunch of likable guys.

      Totally agree. I’m watching games again. It’s been a few years since I was excited to do so… Especially knowing they are likely to lose most nights.

    32. Jack Bauer

      @51 I was thinking the same thing. They may be young and not that good but I’m enjoying the effort and watching them play much more than those recent Melo led teams.

    33. Ntilakilla

      We better hope Sabonis fouls himself out of this game. Burke and Trier should be driving his way.

    34. Frank O.

      Van gundy on Kanter. Ouch
      Making the All Star team Is a good goal…but coming off the bench…on a sub.500 team…
      Ouch.

    35. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      It was obvious Hardaway had a down year last year related to his injuries and be thrown to the wolves when KP went down. It was (and still is) harder to know where his top is because he was very streaky in Atlanta also. My biggest problem with him was never “talent”. It was basketball IQ. If his shot selection would improve, his efficiency would improve and maybe even top what he did in Atlanta. That would be fine if he could just be neutral defensively. But at what point do you say he’s not capable of learning and making smart shot selection decisions consistently? I have no idea. There’s no formula for that. Maybe Fizdale is getting to him.

    36. thenoblefacehumper

      Enes Kanter really put Domantas Sabonis on pace to score over 100 points per 48 minutes

    37. Ntilakilla

      I feel like the one benefit of having Kanter out there to be abused by Sabonis is to produce the video that will shut him the fuck up about starting for a little while.

    38. Brian Cronin

      Not the best start to the fourth. Really good game so far, though! I am totally going to go to a bunch of MSG games this year. This team is so fun.

    39. Jack Bauer

      Trier great move and score. Nice steal and put back and 1 by Dotson. This team is fun to watch. I hope they don’t win too many games and screw up the chance to draft Zion though. ..

    40. Ntilakilla

      Oh, and Sabonis is 22 years old. And this is his 3rd team??

      Don’t you hate it when people unfairly count out young Euros before they have a chance to mature?

    41. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      The Knicks have so many horrible defenders it becomes difficult to create lineups with only one of them on the court at the same time. Once there’s two, all hell breaks loose. That’s been the problem with “this” management team. They value the offensive side of the ball more than the defense side. IMO, that’s WRONG. You need scorers for sure, but you cannot sacrifice defense for scoring. You generally need two-way players unless a guy is a monster on one side and you already have all you need on the other side.

    42. DRed

      Derrick Rose has 41 points and counting vs the Jazz in what has to be the early contender for shocking performance of the year

    43. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Dotson = two way player. He may never be an all star caliber player, but I’ll take a few more like him please.

    44. Clyde's suit

      C’mon coach, please take Lance out of the game before something awful happens. If Mario played any d at all he would easily take Lance’s minutes. But he doesn’t…

      Gotta love Dot and Hardaway tonight.

    45. Z-man

      Don’t you hate it when people unfairly count out young Euros before they have a chance to mature?

      Only ones that don’t suck.

    46. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      It’s good that Hardaway is having such a great night on ESPN. Lots of people will see this. You never know what deals will come up eventually.

    47. Z-man

      Word. But you don’t know until they develop.

      I don’t know whether if I swallow a lump of coal, I’ll shit a diamond.

    48. Ntilakilla

      I don’t know whether if I swallow a lump of coal, I’ll shit a diamond.

      You don’t know that won’t happen?

    49. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Thibodeau playing Derrick Rose over 40 minutes tonight trying to get this win. Isn’t there an organization somewhere that prevents cruelty like this?

    50. Ntilakilla

      @106

      He always breaks down in the crunch. Tries to force things instead of having faith the game will come to him.

    51. Clyde's suit

      Shit…Hardaway with the hero jumper and then Oladipo comes down and jacks one right in his mug…OUCH.

    52. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Hardaway lmao See my previous posts.

      Derrick Rose going crazy

    53. Ntilakilla

      I will never understand how Lance Thomas fools countless coach after coach to believe he is a worthwhile contributor out there. He has to be the type of guy who hustles so hard in team practice coaches come to feel they must rely upon him in real game situations.

    54. Ntilakilla

      Trier has legit 6th man ability. He even passed the ball a few times off the drive but unfortunately Hezonja was the shooter.

    55. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Rose with 50 points making shots and FTs down the stretch

    56. Clyde's suit

      Dammit, this loss hurts a bit but this is the type of game that a young team has to learn how to win.

    57. Bruno Almeida

      Damn, this is a heartbreaker. The team showed a lot of spirit, to lose on a rebound on an airball…

      Very encouraging by the young dudes, if we could have something close to this THJ every night his contract would be a damn bargain. Very very good game.

    58. Frank O.

      They need to learn how to win.
      And coach needs to understand that Lance is not a guy you want playing in the last five with the game on the line.

    59. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Rose 50 points, blocks the final shot, T-Wolves win. Who woulda thunk it.

    60. Ntilakilla

      Dammit, this loss hurts a bit but this is the type of game that a young team has to learn how to win.

      Ironically, I don’t believe it was youngins who cost us the game. It was relying on the vets like Thomas and Kanter which did.

    61. DRed

      If we had a decent player instead of Hezonja or Lance we’d be like 4-4. I have no real complaints so far.

    62. latke

      This HAS to be the optimal time to try to move Hardaway, right? Nationally televised huge game that some dumb owner may have watched… reach out to foolish teams like Charlotte, Detroit, New Orleans, Miami… Philly, too since they need shooting and have a vacuum in the front office.

    63. ClashFan

      Win win win. Promising play from young guys, a loss for the tank, and Timmy with lots of pointzzz to hopefully bolster his trade value…

    64. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      This HAS to be the optimal time to try to move Hardaway, right? Nationally televised huge game that some dumb owner may have watched… reach out to foolish teams like Charlotte, New Orleans, Miami… Philly, too since they need shooting and have a vacuum in the front office.

      You may want to include our management in that group. They may give him an extension. lol ;-)

    65. Ntilakilla

      Would love to see more Mitch Rob out there. A major difference is that he’d play around 15 more minutes out there if he had the experience/conditioning.

    66. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      I have to admire Rose. There aren’t many players that would have or could have battled back from that many serious and other injuries and what I “suspect” are some mental health issues to keep playing the game he loves. He was pretty close to crying in the post game interview.

    67. Clyde's suit

      Hardaway is NOT the problem in my eyes. I pretty convinced that he is mostly taking the shots the coach wants him to take. The bigger issue is the absence of good point guard and a better 1st and 2nd scoring option.

      Right now Hardaway is option 1 and 1a. Frank hurts the offense by not taking half the shots he should be taking. Dot would feast on spot up 3s if we had a good pg.
      Oh well….

    68. Z-man

      Hardaway is playing to what we hoped for in the aftermath of his dumb signing. But no one is taking on that contract without a sweetner.

    69. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      The problem is that we have a few young prospects and a couple of young role players that will probably be very good as a group in 3-4 years. But we also have a few young players that can’t play defense and that aren’t very good on offense either. They are bad players, at least now. The net of that is not very good and won’t be good for quite awhile. KP coming back will certainly help win some games just by getting certain other players off the court, let alone if he plays well. But they need a lot of time and more good players.

    70. nicos

      Mitch needs to learn to rotate and recover rather than just switching. I mean he’s better than Kanter who’s completely Amar’e-esque in putting himself perfectly in-between so he can’t guard either player but Indiana exploited every switch. That Lance seemed like a viable option down the stretch shows you how talent-starved this team is. Eventually those minutes will go to Knox but if you’re trying to win there’s probably not going to be much difference between the two this year.

      Nice to see Frank making plays downhill but he really needed to step up late and try to get the team into decent sets rather than just being content to watch the THJ show. And he needs to figure some way to score inside the arc to be a viable point. But I’ll take 7 assists (could have been 8 but Kanter blew an easy layup) against two turnovers at this stage of the game.

    71. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      @ClarenceGaines2
      I’m old school – have always been analytical in my scouting – value 3 point shooting but recognize the value of a mid-range game when things get tight. JVG – I concur – “You have to have a mid-range game at some point in the game against quality defense.”

    72. Ntilakilla

      But I’ll take 7 assists (could have been 8 but Kanter blew an easy layup) against two turnovers at this stage of the game.

      Could’ve been 9 if Lance Thomas wasn’t a waste of space on the three point line. The idea that he doesn’t create scoring opportunities for his teammates is laughable. If anything he’s too generous. He should be taking at least ten shots a game if he’s going to pay 30+ minutes.

    73. Bruno Almeida

      Kanter really screwed this up by allowing Sabonis to play like Wilt Chamberlain. Sabonis played pretty well and was getting good scores on a lot of guys, but it seemed every single time he was with Kanter he scored effortlessly. So much for wanting to be an all-star while getting wrecked by another bench player.

    74. kevin5318

      I thought this was gonna be a rougher night for Frank going against the 6th ranked defense but he didn’t hurt us that much on offense. Next off season needs to be him working on that jumper inside of the 3pt arc.

    75. Bruno Almeida

      I have no sympathy whatsoever for Derrick Rose, but that’s quite an accomplishment for a former MVP to get his career high in points after so many injuries.

    76. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      Frank’s development is probably going to be a long slow up and down process. It isn’t intuitive for him yet where he instinctively knows from experience when to drive, when to shoot, when to pass etc… He’s thinking out there. He’s learning from trial and error experience and watching film what works and what doesn’t work in different situations. He’s also trying to develop a shot and keep up his high level defense. It’s a lot for a 20 year old player that is being thrown into the PG spot after not really being in that role all that much. He didn’t have a particularly productive night tonight on the stat sheet, but even tonight you could see that he’s playing better than last year. He’s more aggressive and capable of doing more things.

    77. latke

      I have no real problem with Hardaway as a player, and the contract may work out to be okay, but he’s just not a player with upside, which makes him pointless for a team looking to improve. I also think the high usage rate and the fact that he scores most of his points from the outside are problematic for a young team. YOu want guys who can distort the defense and tehn kick out to young guys so they can get an opportunity to be creative without having to go against a set defense. Hardaway and Kanter don’t setup many good opportunities for teammates relative to the number possessions they use.

      The Stoudemire/Felton combo IMO was really beneficial for the development of players like Gallo and Chandler even though it only lasted a half season because it did exactly that.

      This team has an overabundance of 6th men… Trier, Burke, Hardaway and Kanter all fill that high usage role where they can create shots even with weak teammates but their impact drops precipitously when they are around highly talented players.

    78. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      I don’t like Pop’s shtick, but he’s definitely a great coach. If he wins a lot of games with this team, it will be a miracle. One more after that and he’d be eligible for sainthood.

    79. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      @163 It’s the management. They value scorers. That’s why we have so many of these 6th men type players and scorers with suspect or bad defense. It’s a miracle they picked up Vonleh. I guess it was so damn obvious they needed a rebounder/defender big man to play PF, they couldn’t blow that one. He’s been really good.

    80. Stratomatic "Is Dotson our best two-way player with Porzingis out?"

      @ClarenceGaines2
      Mitchell’s not yet ready for end game action – Offensive skill set, both technically and tactically has to evolve. Fiz knows what he’s doing – Young pup needs a lot of seasoning. Be patient – Cook’em slow – Will happen in time.

      End game in @NBA basketball is fascinating. Totally different equation utilized by most coaches compared with yesteryear. Most teams only value having 1 quality big on the floor-A guy like @Enes_Kanter can’t get any love during winning time – @Original_Turner in same boat tonight

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