Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 18, 2019

“Can You Freeze Ping Pong Balls?”: The 2019 NBA Draft Lottery Thread

I am a big Patrick Ewing fan and I am thrilled that he is the Knicks’ representative tonight. I am such a Ewing fan that I held off on “Can Patrick Ewing finally win something for the Knicks?” as the title of this thread.

Anyways, here we are, twenty minutes away from the start of perhaps the most important Draft Lottery in the Knicks’ history.

Let’s go, Knicks!

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216 comments on ““Can You Freeze Ping Pong Balls?”: The 2019 NBA Draft Lottery Thread

  1. ClashFan

    If one dragon can burn an entire fleet, army, and city down, then the Knicks can do this!
    :-)

  2. JK47

    This feels like I’m on a plane that is in a nosedive and I know it’s probably gonna crash but I’m holding out hope the engine kicks back on

  3. BigBlueAL

    Just don’t fall out of the Top 3, it looks like a total crapshoot after the 3rd pick and I don’t want any part of that.

  4. Brian Cronin Post author

    I love the mini-Woj bomb! He said that the Knicks will not trade the #1 pick if they get it. Phew.

  5. ptmilo

    i once hit a man in dearborn michigan. a hit and run. i hit him and kept on going. i don’t know if he’s alive or dead, but i’m sorry.

  6. The Infamous Cdiggy

    If you hear about a joyous madman shouting to the heavens outside East Los Angeles, that would be me.

  7. Ntilakilla

    Some jokers have been trolling us as of late. First there was rumor that Kyrie was considering signing with LAL and now that foolishness about us trading the #1 pick.

  8. Brian Cronin Post author

    Yeah, it doesn’t PROVE anything, but the odds are waaaay higher for the Knicks than the other three teams. This is intense.

  9. Brian Cronin Post author

    Hey, at least they won’t be drafting Cam Reddish!

    Will AD seriously stick around now? Zion and AD is a really good match.

  10. GoNYGoNYGo dreaming of ping pong balls

    AD will stay in NO now. Watch. And KD will sign there too.

  11. Ntilakilla

    This was the result the NBA wanted.

    The Lakers got great draft capital for an AD trade.

    The Pelicans got a new superstar to replace AD with.

    And we got screwed again.

  12. JK47

    RJ Barrett could maybe be a decent switchable wing, give us some defense, stuff the boxscore a little bit? Maybe he fixes his shooting? He’s a lefty! That’s something!

    Is this thing on? Woozle wuzzle?

  13. ClashFan

    The winning team’s rep is a bald white man. The commissioner is a bald white man.

    You do the math.

  14. Bruno Almeida

    Ok, so it was not a complete disaster, just a small disaster… now the NBA has saved the fucking stupid Pelicans who should probably not even exist twice with timely lottery wins.

    Can we still trade the 3rd pick for AD and convince Griffin of Barrett + Zion synergy?

  15. djphan

    well #3 isn’t horrible…. if i had to guess i think the grizz take morant…. if you like barrett i’m sure conventional wisdom has him at 3 but we should absolutely take culver….

    but now with the pelicans getting zion… would they trade AD for the #3 pick?

  16. abk

    LOL at everyone mad! 3 is a huge victory over the expectations. Potentially Ja!

    Pretty funny that AD is probably going nowhere fast now. Should be good for us! Hopefully…

  17. vincoug

    Fucking gutted. I really don’t like RJ. Dude feels like the next Evan Turner / Jeff Green / Rudy Gay. Anyone think Memphis might pass on Ja because of his fit next to Conley?

  18. ess-dog

    Think we’re still gonna get Ja, which is cool. Hey, maybe NO will still do a trade to pair either Barrett or Ja with Zion? Then we get AD, KD, KI, etc.

  19. Bruno Almeida

    The Grizzlies have been signaling they’re moving away from Conley for an entire year, there’s no way in hell they don’t pick Morant.

    Just don’t fucking draft Cam Reddish, get Barrett or Culver or trade the pick if something good comes up.

  20. JK47

    If the Grizz drafts RJ (not an impossibility) then this is kind of a big win. Ja is going to be a fine player.

    The Grizz will draft Ja.

  21. BigBlueAL

    When I saw the Knicks left with 3 teams that had much worse odds for the first time I honestly believed they’d win the lottery. I shouldve known better.

  22. bockadoo

    Thank god we got top 3 in a 3 player draft. Maybe Memphis takes Barrett because they have Conley and we get Ja?

  23. Grocer

    Yeah, if we could trade down plus a first in next year’s I’d be happy. Sigh. I guess three is okay. At least Zion is in the West.

  24. heavencent35

    Drafting 3 and picking barret is better that drafting 2 and picking morant.

    Also, 3 could be a better trade chip to pelicans cosidering theyre getting zion and having a 3rd pick to go with zion could be better for them. 3 plus knox and ntikina for AD. Lets not inclue our mavs pick for AD hope it will happen.

  25. abk

    how about the 3 to Atl for the 8 and the 10?

    Interesting trade possibility! Have to defer to the experts on how much better Barrett really is than others, but that would be a trade I’d heavily consider if Morant is taken at #2.

  26. Ntilakilla

    I am more disheartened by the fact that the Lakers got the pick right after us. We’re not getting AD now. Might as well reconcile playing Barrett because I don’t want to give away Mitch Rob plus a #3 pick to get him.

  27. NahNahNahWeAreGoingTheOtherWay

    Why? Why do I come here? Why do I watch this team? Why? Why? Why?

  28. Ntilakilla

    Anyone think Memphis might pass on Ja because of his fit next to Conley?

    This is my hope as well.

  29. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I’m very happy with this result.

    Regardless of whether we get Morant or Barrett we are getting a high IQ player with a chance to be a star. Morant has the more polished offensive game and would solve PG once and for all, but Barrett has a chance to be an excellent multi skilled scorer, play maker, and defender.

    We also don’t have to worry about Cam Reddish.

    The most interesting thing is that Anthony Davis may be off the market with Zion going to New Orleans. If I was him, I wouldn’t be going anywhere now. New Orleans looks brilliant for not making that trade before the draft. Now they have a chance to put together a terrific team.

  30. Kevin Udwary

    Guys, this is good. Dallas didn’t keep their pick, and we got top 3 meaning no Reddish! Obviously Zion would have been great, but this is far far far from worst case.

  31. Hubert

    I tried, but I got swept in the finals.

    A little help for free agency would be nice!

  32. Ntilakilla

    It’s a 2 horse race and we’ve got the 3rd pick. Of-fucking-course.

    Let’s face it. Even if we got the 2nd pick it would mean we were projected to pick Cam Reddish.

  33. abk

    I am more disheartened by the fact that the Lakers got the pick right after us. We’re not getting AD now. Might as well reconcile playing Barrett because I don’t want to give away Mitch Rob plus a #3 pick to get him.

    Hell no to that trade. Take Barrett/Morant, keep Mitch, and sign KD and Kyrie/Kemba. Hold onto the future picks unless you get great value and keep building.

  34. Ntilakilla

    Take Barrett/Morant, keep Mitch, and sign KD and Kyrie/Kemba. Hold onto the future picks unless you get great value and keep building

    Word.

  35. djphan

    this isn’t the draft to voluntarily drop down in the lottery….. it might be if you know what you’re doing…. but the knicks obviously don’t…

  36. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Looking forward to Zion wasting his career on that bullshit Mickey Mouse franchise

  37. thenoblefacehumper

    The first thing I thought when I saw RJ Barrett was “wow, despite the hype this guy is Knicksy as fuck.” This was basically destiny.

  38. Hubert

    Guys consider this:

    Memphis, New Orleans, Dallas had exact odds. The one we needed not to move up didn’t and the other two did.

    I think we might have gotten luckier than we realize. We’re going to end up with KD, Kyrie, and a sick trade chip in Barrett. Let’s see how this plays out.

  39. Ntilakilla

    Why would AD be off the market because Zion is there? He’s already made it clear that he wants out of New Orleans ASAP. It’s either LA or NYK for him.

  40. heavencent35

    Guys, this is good. Dallas didn’t keep their pick, and we got top 3 meaning no Reddish! Obviously Zion would have been great, but this is far far far from worst case.

    – What does it mean DALLAS DIDNT KEEP THEIR PICK?

  41. Scorpio Dragon

    @59

    I would guess so, but his timetable could, in theory, coincide with Zion’s ascension.

    But my wonder is the Grizzlies. I mean unless they trade Mike Conley they don’t really have a use for Ja, right?

  42. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    RJ Barrett is kinda like Evan Turner except he’s a plus athlete and has a passable jumper. Imagine if Spurs DeRozan could shoot threes. That’s RJ Barrett, and he doesn’t turn 19 until next month.

    I’m obviously the biggest RJ Barrett fan on the board and I really hope we don’t trade him and Mitchell Robinson, and the rest of our assets for Anthony Davis. That would be a big loss to me.

  43. abk

    Looking forward to Zion wasting his career on that bullshit Mickey Mouse franchise

    Me too, man. Me too. Probably got more endorsement money at Duke than he will in NO!

  44. Early Bird

    RJ Barrett is not an efficient scorer. He can do other things, but unless he can be a plus scorer I don’t particularly want him. His rebounding and assist numbers are decent, but don’t exactly jump off the page.

    Clarke and Culver both strike me as better players. Here’s to hoping…

  45. Hubert

    And you know what else this probably means?

    New Orleans isn’t going to be too excited about reuniting Zion and Barrett, so we’re not trading for AD. That means this result probably kept Mitchell Robinson in NY.

  46. abk

    Why would AD be off the market because Zion is there? He’s already made it clear that he wants out of New Orleans ASAP. It’s either LA or NYK for him.

    Because they’re probably going to be pretty good now? At least, I’d imagine the fact they’ve been terrible sans AD played into his thinking. If it was just about playing in a big market though, maybe not.

  47. ess-dog

    This top-3 pick is a win. You guys are underrating Barrett at this point. He will be better than DeRozan. Closer to Kobe is my prediction. Yes, I know, an overrated volume shooter, but when was the last time this team even had a Kobe or DeRozan-level guard?? And Ja is definitely not a sure thing! We didn’t get Zion, but we didn’t get Reddish either.

    That being said, I think we’ll trade the pick.

  48. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Why would AD be off the market because Zion is there? He’s already made it clear that he wants out of New Orleans ASAP. It’s either LA or NYK for him.

    As far I know, he doesn’t want out because he hates New Orleans. He wants out because he lost confidence in the team’s ability to put a winning team around him (like another player we know). Now they have Dave Griffin in charge and they just added Zion. It’s a completely different situation right now. Davis and Zion would have a decade of great basketball ahead. Unless he hates NO, I’d stay if I was him.

  49. Ntilakilla

    Because they’re probably going to be pretty good now?

    He’s got a chance to sign to play with Lebron or KD. I don’t think he’s worrying about playing with a pretty good team.

  50. djphan

    what’s the cap situation for a potential trade of everyone but mrob for AD? we can offer a godfather offer of picks to NO…. basically a nets type of deal…. #3, swap rights next year and the 2021 mavs pick…. and 2023 mavs…

    the lakers can offer…. hart.. kuzma and ball plus #4?… celtics have tatum and brown….

    we might have the best package out there for AD….

  51. ClashFan

    Barrett’s shot is broken. If we get him, we have to hope that his technique gets huge improvement.

    If I’m NO, I trade AD for a king’s ransom and do a huge reboot. For example, I’d see if I can’t swindle the Knicks for the #3, Mitch, the 2021 Dallas pick (which might be very nice if KP totally flames out in Dallas, which seems increasingly possible), and some salary junk (throw the Knicks a bone and take Frank N’s or DSJ’s contract).

  52. Hubert

    If we had finished 2nd, I’d have to think that meant the end of Mitchell. Mitch & Morant for AD would have been too much for either front office to pass up.

    Now we can take Barrett, combine him with Lance Thomas’s nonguaranteed salary, and we can trade for any player in the NBA making ~$20mm to be the 3rd wheel for Kyrie & KD.

    Barrett is going to have incredible trade value. He’s a better prospect than Wiggins, and Wiggins netted Kevin Love.

  53. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    The only elite wing player who shot the ball well in college was Kevin Durant (Klay Thompson too, but duh), and he’s one of the 5 greatest players ever. RJ Barrett literally does everything else well and he’s only 18. Also, his eFG% of .506 suggests his poor free throw shooting is what kept his TS% from being in the mid-high .500s. RJ Barrett is a player and I’m really glad we have a chance at him.

  54. abk

    This top-3 pick is a win. You guys are underrating Barrett at this point. He will be better than DeRozan. Closer to Kobe is my prediction. Yes, I know, an overrated volume shooter, but when was the last time this team even had a Kobe or DeRozan-level guard?? And Ja is definitely not a sure thing! We didn’t get Zion, but we didn’t get Reddish either.

    That being said, I think we’ll trade the pick.

    Agreed. As you alluded to Barrett’s trade value is likely much higher than the #5 pick, and (given he’s likely to put up big scoring numbers even as a rookie) he’ll probably sustain it for a number of years (think Tatum in Boston). This was significantly above the median outcome.

  55. Owen

    Not here for RJ Barrett. He is going to suck.

    In keeping with my long tradition of predictions which i hope end up profoundly wrong.

    Dallas ceding their picks to us is big though.

  56. dtrickey

    I posted this on the other thread, but fuck LA and their charmed lives. Pick 4 from the 11th worst record? GTFO.

    I am still raw, but it is pretty deflating for the bottom 3 teams being jumped by the 7th, 8th and 11th worst teams. No way in the interests of parity should the 3 worst teams miss out on a top 3 pick.

    Anyway, at pick 3 we beat the odds, so our luck is changing. It now shifts to drafting a solid rookie or using it to trade for AD if that is even on the cards now, so as far as Knicksy situations go, this is the least Knicksy thing to happen.

  57. etsuke

    RJ was not a good finisher or decision maker—kind of critical skills for a wing initiator who can’t shoot.

  58. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    You guys only think RJ Barrett sucks/won’t pan out because of his .532 TS% (and he was Zion’s teammate which made him look worse every night he stepped out on the basketball court).

  59. djphan

    barrett’s a fine prospect…. he’s a legit top 3 prospect in any draft…. i just think culver has a better shot at succeeding and being better….

    but all that aside there’s no shame in taking barrett…. he scores with great volume and 2p efficiency…. and he can handle the ball well for his size…. having a SF that can create offense for others is a SUPREMELY difficult thing to find…. he was the consensus #1 before the college season….

    yea his shot selection is iffy…. but he adjusted as the season went on…. he’s not a totally dumb player…. my problem with him is that he’s a bit stiff and relies on his strength… and he needs more side to side to his game in order to fulfill his promise…

    i’m not sure if it’ll get there but i think he can be a fine starter type eventually…. and there’s a lot of upside here… guys who score this well and do other things have a tremendous track record so don’t be too disappointed if his name gets called….

  60. Z-man

    Positives:

    We got the best pick in the east

    Dallas got fucked

    Boston got fucked

    I still have one testicle left

  61. ClashFan

    Tonight was a B-, considering having the worst record in the league. If we got the #2, that would be a B+ (Ja). The #1 would be an A.

    The Dallas picks could be very nice, but one or both may well be traded away.

  62. Hubert

    Jesus, you know what else happened tonight? Boston got fucked!! Now AD to the Lakers is extremely likely.

    Holy shit. What a fucking night.

    In summary:

    – we miraculously avoided Dallas moving into the top 5

    – losing Mitch was probably taken off the table

    – our division rival got fucked *hard*. Not only will they now miss out on AD, but the crown jewel of their trade chips (Memphis’ pick) got devalued.

    – we got the *perfect* trade chip to acquire a third star. How perfect is he? Literally none of us will be mad when we trade RJ Barrett for an established star.

    What a night.

    I think, when we’re all celebrating the championship KD delivers, we’ll realize that it all started here.

  63. Ntilakilla

    Also, his eFG% of .506 suggests his poor free throw shooting is what kept his TS% from being in the mid-high .500s.

    That’s a pretty deal you’re glossing over. Free throw percentage is a major predictor of NBA shooting success as I understand it, no?

  64. Early Bird

    When you have a bad TS% in college AND the highest usage in the ACC–despite having Zion on your team– that’s problematic.

  65. dtrickey

    Given we were the only bottom 3 team to remain in the top 3 picks, that is something to be thankful for. Barrett is a fine consolation IMO. Plus we have a nice asset with the future Dallas pick as well.

    I think BC summed it up best earlier this morning when he said with KD likely coming, there are some good things happening even without the no.1 pick (sorry to paraphrase BC).

  66. BigBlueAL

    If you would’ve told me before the lottery Knicks get 3rd pick with no other East team picking ahead of them and we keep the Mavs 2021 pick I would’ve been happy. But man when I saw the Knicks being in the Top 4 with 3 other teams with significantly worse odds I got my hopes up.

  67. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    He’s got a chance to sign to play with Lebron or KD. I don’t think he’s worrying about playing with a pretty good team.

    Playing with a declining Lebron with a 2 year window or Zion for 10 years?

  68. Ntilakilla

    Playing with a declining Lebron with a 2 year window or Zion for 10 years?

    I’d take Lebron, Kuzma, Ball, Ingram over whatever New Orleans is surrounding Zion with.

  69. dtrickey

    The real question is WHO WILL MEMPHIS PICK?!

    Given Conoley is on his last legs, it would be too hard to pass on Ja, even if he is backing up Conoley. The lottery has worked out well for Memphis.

  70. bidiong

    Glad I spent my night learning how to rip cars apart with my fire company instead of watching this heart wrenching shitshow!

  71. Ntilakilla

    Conley has a major deal with Memphis. Maybe they don’t want another PG in their backcourt?

  72. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    @131, yes FT% has been one of the stats that translates more often than not, but call me skeptical on an 18 year old basketball player (whose godfather is Steve “50/40/90″ Nash) not being able to improve his FT% over the course of his career.

  73. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Barrett’s efficiency issue has to do with his low 3p% and mediocre FT%. He’s quite efficient closer to the basket. He’s also an absolutely terrific playmaker for a wing, CAN play defense, and rebounds fine. If can add a 3 point shot, he’s going to be an all around STUD.

    None of these kids is going to come out of college perfect.

    I love Morant, but he doesn’t play defense and hasn’t faced consistent high level players yet. There are questions about him too.

    If we get Barrett, we are getting a top notch talent and skillset with a chance to become a multi-faceted star player in a few years. It’s on us and him to improve his outside shot over the next few years.

  74. BigBlueAL

    Now reading all these tweets that Zion was rooting hard for the Knicks and was whisked away quickly from the lottery once New Orleans won to hide his disappointment. Maybe he can pull an Eli and force a trade to the Knicks lol.

  75. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    The Grizzlies can easily get out of the Mike Conley contract. Phoenix, LAL, Toronto, Boston (if they lose Irving and Rozier really wants out), Miami, and San Antonio could all use a point guard upgrade for the next two years.

  76. Sir Robin

    I cant tell you how bummed I am that we didn’t get Zion. It does not surprise me though. Let’s just hope they make the right pick.

  77. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I would not rule out the Suns trying to move up to #2 to get Morant. They are HOT for a PG and wanted Morant badly.

  78. JK47

    Seems to me like the #3 pick in this draft has a lot more value than #4 in real world terms. I don’t really like Barrett as a prospect but I bet there are other teams that do. The whole “#1 prospect out of high school” thing still carries some weight.

    If this really is going to be a KD/Kyrie “win now” team then you have to trade this pick. It’s a good asset.

  79. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Ja Morant is a downhill athlete but only weighs 175 pounds. I’m sure he’ll gain weight as he gets older, but that kid is likely to suck his first couple years in the league. Hopefully injuries won’t keep him from improving because he is definitely going to take a beating in the pros his first few years.

  80. Ntilakilla

    Now reading all these tweets that Zion was rooting hard for the Knicks and was whisked away quickly from the lottery once New Orleans won to hide his disappointment. Maybe he can pull an Eli and force a trade to the Knicks lol.

    We’ll see each other in around 6 seasons.

  81. ess-dog

    According to Shams, Davis still wants out of NO.
    The other thing about NO getting Zion is that no one else can trade him for Davis. I’m not necessarily happy about it, but Mitch + RJ + DSJ + ’21 Dallas pick is the best offer the Pels will get, and they’ll take it.

  82. vincoug

    I’d take Lebron, Kuzma, Ball, Ingram over whatever New Orleans is surrounding Zion with.

    Sure but LA isn’t keeping all those guys in a potential AD trade. They probably don’t keep anyone besides Lebron.

  83. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    A ton is going to change before the season, but if we rolled out a lineup of Dennis Smith Jr, Frank Ntilikina, RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, and Mitchell Robinson for a few minutes next year, that would be a pretty balanced lineup of players that mostly can’t drink alcohol legally yet.

  84. Hubert

    I’m not necessarily happy about it, but Mitch + RJ + DSJ + ’21 Dallas pick is the best offer the Pels will get, and they’ll take it.

    RJ Barrett never looked good playing with Zion at Duke. His biggest draws is that he played best when Zion was out. New Orleans is not going to pair those two.

    They have the opportunity to have Lonzo Ball throwing lobs to Zion and add the 4th pick in the draft and probably get their choice of Kuzma/Ingram/Hart. Then they can trade Jrue Holiday to the highest bidder. That’s a great rebuild. AD to LA is pretty much done.

    Also, as great as Zion is, he doesn’t turn New Orleans into a contender with AD for years, so AD ain’t gonna change his mind.

  85. nicos

    If this really is going to be a KD/Kyrie “win now” team then you have to trade this pick. It’s a good asset.

    But who’s going to be available who’ll both move the needle and fit into whatever cap space is left after we sign KD/Kyrie outside of AD? I think now the Knicks would probably have to include Mitch to match L.A. who’ll have the 4 plus 2 of Ball/Ingram/Kuzma.

  86. vincoug

    I really just don’t see it with RJ. I think his playmaking is totally overrated; averaging 4 assists/game when you have a sky high USG and are playing next to the most dominant player in recent NCAA history doesn’t scream elite playmaker to me. And I never came away from a Duke game being impressed by his supposed passing skills.

    As for scoring, the shooting is a serious concern but not the only one. 30% from 3 and 66% from the FT line from a wing should scare everyone especially because it means he probably can’t play off the ball. Even more concerning, he doesn’t really have any good lateral movement, he’s got no wiggle. His best scoring move is overpowering guys close to the basket but he doesn’t have the otherworldly athleticism of Zion or the elite athleticism that most top NBA players have. How is he going to score when he isn’t able to overpower everyone anymore?

  87. DRed

    Mitch + RJ + DSJ + ’21 Dallas pick is the best offer the Pels will get, and they’ll take it.

    I think most NBA teams would take Brown & Tatum over that. The Celtics could also give them like 5 picks (not great ones, but still)

  88. wetbandit

    A ton is going to change before the season, but if we rolled out a lineup of Dennis Smith Jr, Frank Ntilikina, RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, and Mitchell Robinson for a few minutes next year, that would be a pretty balanced lineup of players that mostly can’t drink alcohol legally yet.

    This lineup would do well in 2001

  89. Ntilakilla

    They probably don’t keep anyone besides Lebron.

    True, stupid me. I just think the Lakers will have an easier surrounding AD/Lebron with talent than New Orleans is going to have surrounding AD/Zion because they are the Lakers and will always attract a certain level of FA.

  90. The Infamous Cdiggy

    @145: Hmmmmmmm….

    He doesn’t strike me as the type of kid, but what if he pulls a Eli/Kobe? Think about it:
    – Say AD reaches out to him and lets him know in confidence that he still won’t stay in New Orleans and advises that neither should he.

    I mean, weirder things have happened…

  91. BigBlueAL

    The thing is who would you draft ahead of Barrett?? Like JK47 said like him or not he will have a ton of trade value and would be worth drafting just for that.

  92. Hubert

    I really just don’t see it with RJ. I think his playmaking is totally overrated; averaging 4 assists/game when you have a sky high USG and are playing next to the most dominant player in recent NCAA history doesn’t scream elite playmaker to me. And I never came away from a Duke game being impressed by his supposed passing skills.

    We should make a pact to not waste any time arguing about how good Barrett might be. The dude is never going to play here.

    If you want to debate something, argue about what player we should trade him for. Keeping Lance Thomas allows you to trade Barrett with him for anyone in the NBA making ~20mm.

    Our biggest need, if KD and Kyrie come, is a forward next to Durant or a guard next to Kyrie. I know y’all will **kill me** bc advanced stats don’t look as kindly on two way shooting guards as they should, but I think Bradley Beal would round out a Kyrie-KD-Mitch lineup very well.

  93. Ntilakilla

    They have the opportunity to have Lonzo Ball throwing lobs to Zion and add the 4th pick in the draft and probably get their choice of Kuzma/Ingram/Hart

    Lonzo Ball has made it clear he doesn’t want to play in NO either. His father will also be a problem. I don’t think that pick is as attractive as you want to make it out to be.

  94. daaarn

    Welp, I’m okay with the Knicks trading their pick now. I was uneasy with all the rumors of them trading the #1 pick for AD, but now it’s whatever. At best, I think they’d get a player with the ceiling of “solid starter” level with the #3 pick and they could certainly do much worse than that. Not feeling RJ Barrett. Wouldn’t mind Morant at #3 or later, but seems like he’d probably go to Memphis to be Conley’s heir apparent.

    Would either include the #3 pick in a package for an All-Star caliber player or just trade back for multiple picks/assets. Only player on the roster I would hate to move (for right now anyway) is Robinson. He’s raw, but he’s got a lot of potential and I think could be a legit double-double machine like DeAndre Jordan and I think that’s something worth waiting on. Everyone else on the roster is fair game for all i care though.

  95. JK47

    They have the opportunity to have Lonzo Ball throwing lobs to Zion and add the 4th pick in the draft and probably get their choice of Kuzma/Ingram/Hart.

    That package doesn’t look that great to me. Lonzo’s ceiling doesn’t look super high to me, his flaws are not great flaws to have. He’s a Rubio-type PG at best to me. The fourth pick in this draft is what, like Culver or Garland? Brandon Ingram is ass and Kuzma and Hart are just rotation guys.

    I think the potential Boston package looks bettter than that.

  96. ess-dog

    I think most NBA teams would take Brown & Tatum over that. The Celtics could also give them like 5 picks (not great ones, but still)

    .097 WS48, .547 TS Jayson Tatum? Instead of .219 WS48, .692 TS Mitchell Robinson?

    Oh man, I’m going to miss Mitch… he’s perfect next to Zion too.

  97. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Also, as great as Zion is, he doesn’t turn New Orleans into a contender with AD for years, so AD ain’t gonna change his mind.

    Davis, a 36 year old Lebron that’s starting to break down, and whatever is left over from the trade is not necessarily the favorite to win the championship. They’d probably need more. If they don’t get it, when the window is closed in 2 years he’ll find himself in the LA version of New Orleans while his former team is on the rise and about to move past him in another year or two.

    If he wants out of New Orleans for reasons I am unaware of, so be it. But imo, LA is not a no brainer for a guy that’s 25 and adding Zion to Jrue Holiday and Julius Randle in a place people will now want to play and with a competent GM like Griffin.

  98. DRed

    Jayson Tatum led his team to the Eastern Conference Finals and went head to head with Lebron when he was 19. Mitchell Robinson was a backup on a team that won 17 games. Tatum is a wing, Mitch is a center.

  99. vincoug

    The thing is who would you draft ahead of Barrett??

    A lot of guys. I’m totally down on RJ, I think he’s the next Andrew Wiggins / Evan Turner / Dion Waiters / Jeff Green / Rudy Gay. A guy who’s best with the ball in his hands but isn’t really good at anything and doesn’t actually help his team win; I think he’s a total bust. Off the top of my head I’d take Bol, Culver, Rui (a high floor player), Jaxson Hayes, Garland, Coby White, and Sambouya (who I know nothing about and am not even sure if that’s even his name).

  100. Ntilakilla

    Asked David Griffin if this changes the situation with Anthony Davis. “Not a lot,” he said. “…. We want to create an environment that players are attracted to and we feel very strongly Anthony, in totality, will be attracted to what we can build.” https://t.co/c9BaiVhUAF— Ian Begley (@IanBegley) May 15, 2019

  101. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Jayson Tatum and Zion Williamson is way easier to sell than Mitchell Robinson and Zion Williamson and that’s factorial.

    I really hope we keep RJ and let him develop while playing with HOF guys the way Kawhi Leonard did.

  102. vincoug

    If you want to debate something, argue about what player we should trade him for. Keeping Lance Thomas allows you to trade Barrett with him for anyone in the NBA making ~20mm.

    There’s no way we keep Lance. The cap space from waiving him is way more valuable than using his contract in a trade.

  103. d-mar

    @163 Bradley Beal is an intriguing concept. The Wiz should be in full rebuild mode, so maybe our #3 Knox Frank and flotsam ? I mean the guy averaged 27-7-7 this year, he’d be an outstanding SG to put next to Kyrie.

  104. Hubert

    Our biggest need, if KD and Kyrie come, is a forward next to Durant or a guard next to Kyrie. I know y’all will **kill me** bc advanced stats don’t look as kindly on two way shooting guards as they should, but I think Bradley Beal would round out a Kyrie-KD-Mitch lineup very well.

    Holy shit! I got it!! And I’m going to preempt Jowles from ridiculing me:

    You put a package together for Beal centered around Barrett and add enough to get Washington’s 9th pick back, then use that 9th pick on Brandon Clark.

    Kyrie
    Beal
    Durant
    Clark
    Mitchell

    Mic drop.

  105. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Asked David Griffin if this changes the situation with Anthony Davis. “Not a lot,” he said. “…. We want to create an environment that players are attracted to and we feel very strongly Anthony, in totality, will be attracted to what we can build.” https://t.co/c9BaiVhUAF— Ian Begley (@IanBegley) May 15, 2019

    lmao

    He’s so full of crap. His chances of convincing Davis to stay before tonight were probably less than 5%. His chances now are hard to estimate because I don’t know all the reason Davis wants to leave, but they are WAY higher than before he got the #1 pick. He may not want to say that because he knows he may still lose Davis and it’s going to take more than just Zion to convince him competent management is now in place, but inside he’s celebrating how much his chances have improved to turn things around immediately if Davis stays.

  106. vincoug

    OMG, I just saw someone compare RJ to Tim Hardaway Jr and now I can’t unsee it. I’m going to go curl up and cry in the corner.

  107. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Jayson Tatum led his team to the Eastern Conference Finals and went head to head with Lebron when he was 19. Mitchell Robinson was a backup on a team that won 17 games. Tatum is a wing, Mitch is a center.

    I absolutely love Mitchell, but this group is a little head of itself about where he is now. It’s BPMitis. :-)

  108. Hubert

    I’m totally down on RJ, I think he’s the next Andrew Wiggins

    Yes, that’s what we all see. He’s the guy who is going to be traded for a great player and we will never regret trading him for a second. He’s perfect.

  109. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I like Bradley Beal. The boxscore models underrate players like him and he’s only 25.

  110. Z-man

    This lineup would do well in 2001

    This is total bullshit. They’d all be in diapers…

  111. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    OMG, I just saw someone compare RJ to Tim Hardaway Jr and now I can’t unsee it. I’m going to go curl up and cry in the corner.

    You should put whoever said that on block or at least mute. RJ Barrett is going to be better than Tim Hardaway at everything in basketball other than 3p shooting fairly quickly. And given Hardaway’s 3P%, that’s not a tough target with a 2-5 year window either.

  112. rama got that Fizdale Magic

    Guys, this is good. Dallas didn’t keep their pick, and we got top 3 meaning no Reddish! Obviously Zion would have been great, but this is far far far from worst case.

    I agree. I think this draft worked out very well. Second-best scenario. I was really worried about Dallas, now things look ok. I love Hubert’s trade – that seems like a win-win. Even without the 9, I’d do it.

  113. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I guess now that Durant is out it’s obvious that Steph was not hurt or declining. lol

    He’s simply back to being the #1 option.

  114. DRed

    A lot of guys. I’m totally down on RJ, I think he’s the next Andrew Wiggins / Evan Turner / Dion Waiters / Jeff Green / Rudy Gay. A guy who’s best with the ball in his hands but isn’t really good at anything and doesn’t actually help his team win; I think he’s a total bust.

    RJ shot way more frequently than all those guys, and had a broader skillset then all of them as well (he was either a much better rebounder or better passer than every one of those players). I think he was younger as a freshman than most of them as well. He very well could be a bust, but I don’t think it’s that obvious that he will be.

  115. Ntilakilla

    He’s so full of crap.

    If Griffin were full of crap he’d say the opposite – that they’re going to try to keep AD and make it work out there in NO. This would put the pressure on LA, NYK and BOS to make him an offer he couldn’t refuse. But the fact that Davis, and especially his handlers, are openly adamant about leaving the Crescent City forces Griffin to admit what was already acknowledged as the case: the Pelicans will have to trade him or else he makes their upcoming season a living Hell.

  116. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    I’m not so sure why everyone is so focused on Dallas. Those Dallas picks are unlikely to yield anything special in terms of the draft. Dallas is in a good position and will add in free agency also. They are going to be a good team in a couple of years. We’d probably be better off trading them as part of deal to get something we need sooner or we’ll be picking some 18 year old kid in a few years that may be good in 2030.

  117. TheOakmanCometh

    Memphis was shopping Conley last year. They were almost certainly going to move him this summer regardless. That’s a lock now. There’s no way they’re passing on Ja.

  118. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    If Griffin were full of crap he’d say the opposite – that they’re going to try to keep AD and make it work out there in NO. This would put the pressure on LA, NYK and BOS to make him an offer he couldn’t refuse. But the fact that Davis, and especially his handlers, are openly adamant about leaving the Crescent City forces Griffin to admit what was already acknowledged as the case: the Pelicans will have to trade him or else he makes their upcoming season a living Hell.

    Absolutely not. He can’t put pressure on anyone. He has no control over Davis staying long term and that’s the only thing that matters.

    What you are arguing is that he’s going to want to leave anyway. I admitted I don’t know the answer to that because I don’t know all the reasons he wants to leave.

    What I am arguing is that if he has any chance at all to convince him to stay long term, they are WAY better now and he knows it. His whole pitch is going to be that HE CAN build around him properly and create the proper environment because he’s competent and he’s coming in with 1 chip already.

  119. bobneptune

    Sabonis is the young player we should be targeting on a cheap contract. Rebounds…. passes…. is aggressive around the basket and skilled with both hands and can shoot and is a little redundant in Indy.

  120. Early Bird

    Sabonis is the young player we should be targeting on a cheap contract. Rebounds…. passes…. is aggressive around the basket and skilled with both hands and can shoot and is a little redundant in Indy.

    He’s also not a free agent???

  121. bobneptune

    According to BB Ref he is under contract to Indy for 3.52M 2019-2020 then becomes a rfa

  122. Ntilakilla

    I admitted I don’t know the answer to that because I don’t know all the reasons he wants to leave.

    He’s already stated he wants to leave. You’re arguing that he’s more prone to changing his mind. But, again, there’s zero evidence for this speculation. If anything, the indication from Griffin, the Pelicans GM, is that Davis is adamant about leaving.

  123. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Anybody watching the Warriors? It would be stupid to say they’re a better team without Durant, but I will say Durant’s injury seems to have led to a more focused Warriors team. When the Warriors are focused and engaged, they’re unbeatable.

  124. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Dallas won’t be a playoff team in 2021, book it.

    I’d say that depends on whether Porzingis is in jail for rape or gets killed clubbing in the wrong neighborhood. Other than that, they are positioned with two very good young players, a couple of other decent young players, plenty of cap space next year, a great coach, and Courtney Lee off the books the following year. I’m really not sure hey face any issues other than Hardaway’s contract and he’ll be gone just as they are starting to peak.

    I don’t think it even matters much to us. Like I said, in 2021 and 2023 we’ll be drafting players that won’t be peaking until close to 2030. By then Mitchell may be on the downside. lol

  125. Ntilakilla

    @198

    It’s really amazing that this team can lose its best player and still win a Conference Finals. Name me any team in NBA history that has ever able been able to do something like this.

  126. geo

    Glad I spent my night learning how to rip cars apart with my fire company

    that sounds like a lot of fun…

    I don’t think AD can stay in new orleans: that’s all folks

    if he pulled that shit on us – we wouldn’t want him back…can’t imagine the owner wants to keep him and his agent around…

    great story for griffin to unite zion and rj together…

    the tough question is: can mitch and AD be on the court together…I don’t think the two of them together would work that great…neither can really handle the ball…AD isn’t terrible at it, but, still…

    if we have KD, kyrie, AD on board, add knox and or DSJ to the deal, keep our picks…so long mitch :(

    frank might actually be useful together with those “big” 3…

    sabonis is a really valuable player, hopefully one day he can be a knick…

  127. JK47

    Dallas has Doncic, a soon-to-be-overpaid Porzingis and not really much else in terms of young players. They have Justin Jackson, he seems kinda okay. Remember him, Justin Jackson, the sort of generic Wilson Chandler-ish wing who the Kings drafted a while back? That’s their third best prospect. They have no 2019 pick, and they also have no 2021 and 2023 pick.

    They do have some cap space, which they will probably waste on market value vets. If Porzingis does not make the leap to a franchise-type player, or if he remains as injury prone as he has been, he’ll be negative value on his soon to be max contract. That’s not a super great situation in Dallas, and I think there’s a really good chance they’re a lottery team still in 2021.

  128. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    It really all depends on what Dallas does with the money this summer. They better hope whichever 2nd or 3rd tier players take their money can produce, because otherwise they made a franchise crippling trade for Porzingis.

  129. JK47

    The 2021 Dallas pick is unprotected, that one is nice and juicy. That might turn out to be a very nice asset. The 2023 one is top 10 protected for three years, and if the Mavs don’t get out of the bottom third of the league by 2025, it turns into a 2RP in the 2025 draft.

    It was kind of an Isiah Thomas type trade for the Mavs. “What do we care about that unprotected first round pick? We’re going to be awesome by the time that thing gets conveyed! We have Eddy Curry!”

  130. Ntilakilla

    You know what really pisses me off? Last season a 3rd overall pick would’ve been good enough to net us Luka Doncic. Ugh.

  131. DRed

    It’ll be interesting to see what happens if KD is out through the finals. They got KD after they lost in the finals against a team with a physically overwhelming wing surrounded by shooters.

  132. latke

    The value of the Mavs’ picks is that Porzingis’s health is a big question mark, and if they dump the max into him and he can’t stay healthy or produce at a high level, they could be a mediocre team. As this draft lottery just showed, there’s a far greater chance of moving up with later picks than there used to be.

  133. english_knick

    If we get KD and Kyrie, Beal would be a great get imo. But only if. We’d then need to wait anyway to include the third pick salary as a signed player – so we probably couldn’t control who the 9 would be and I’m not sure the Wiz give up 9 and Beal for 3 and our young pieces unless Mitch is in there too.

    But Beal for Barrett, Smith and Frank would be ok by me if there are going full rebuild. issue is we need to get to about 22m in salary to take Beal after filling our space and those three are only about 16m. We can’t keep LT because we need the space for the max players.

    Basically we’re in a tricky spot with trading the three if we want to wait until after filling our space. Trading it with space limits us to one major FA. Realistically, trading it post space might only net a 20m player if we add a couple of our contracted players and elite 20m players who are on the block are, shall we say, rare.

  134. Brian Cronin Post author

    Yeah, the cap makes the Knicks’ options a lot more limited for trade partners than you would expect.

  135. Hubert

    It’s really amazing that this team can lose its best player and still win a Conference Finals. Name me any team in NBA history that has ever able been able to do something like this.

    The Knicks

  136. Hubert

    My dream is that AD maintains his trade demand, Zion steps up and says he won’t play for the same team that wasted 12 years of Chris Paul and Anthony Davis’s career and made them both demand trades, and it brings a conversation about the bullshit of this indentured servitude system the NBA has installed to the front page. Because it really is fucked that talented children have to sit there and watch some ping pong balls determine their future.

    Imagine campus recruiting day being like that. “Hey, kid, I know you really want to work for Goldman Sachs, and they’re prepared to offer you $500k to start, but here’s the thing: it was determined in the back room that you’re going to have to work for a paper company instead. Good luck. You can change careers in 7 years. Maybe 6 if you’re willing to be an asshole and let everyone drag your name thru the mud.”

  137. Name is Bron - James Bron

    Pessimists: Lousy shooter, indifferent D, Sindarius Thornwell
    Optimists: He’s young, former projected #1 pick, MJ drafted #3

    If NYK play their cards right, here’s our roster:
    1: Kyrie, Kadeem
    2: Satoransky, Trier
    3: Covington, Dotson
    4: KD, Bertans, Kornet
    5: Mitch, Room Exception (Deandre or Taj), Kornet

    The first step is to trade #3 pick, Lance, one of DSJ/Knox/Frank to Twolves for Covington. This trade could take place before July 1 and would free up cap to max Kyrie and KD. After that, we should have enough using our picks (1st and 2nd round) and two of DSJ/Knox/Frank to land Satoransky and Bertans.

  138. bobneptune

    Yeah, the cap makes the Knicks’ options a lot more limited for trade partners than you would expect.

    That’s why we need to look for low priced redundant players on other teams and add picks to the mix.

  139. Hubert

    Yeah, the cap makes the Knicks’ options a lot more limited for trade partners than you would expect.

    If you keep everyone. But some guys are obviously not going to be here. So trade Frank and Smith for picks (doesn’t matter if they’re good picks). Decline Trier’s option, or pick it up and trade him for a pick.

    We’re also at the point where it’s potentially reasonable to ask KD and Kyrie to take a smidge under the max acquire a third piece.

    One thing I did underestimate last night, though, was Beal’s salary. I had it at $22 (last year), it’s $25 next year. Can’t get him without throwing Knox into the mix, and that’s a little too rich for me.

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