Bleacher Report: Begley: Knicks Could Give Allan Houston, Scott Perry Front Office Roles

Adam Wells recaps a chat Ian Begley did:

Despite the arrival of Leon Rose as New York Knicks president of basketball operations last month, Allan Houston and Scott Perry could remain in the team’s front office in some capacity.

SNY.tv’s Ian Begley said he would “bet” Houston and Perry have “some role in some way shape or form” with the Knicks.

It’s perhaps notable that Begley didn’t specify if either one would be back next season in their current job. Perry has been their general manager since July 2017 when he took over for Steve Mills, who was promoted to president when Phil Jackson parted ways with the organization.

Mills was fired in February, opening the door for Rose to take over.

Stefan Bondy of the New York Daily News reported in the wake of Mills’ firing that Houston emerged as a candidate for a front office promotion.

Houston, a two-time All-Star as a player with the Knicks, has been working in their front office since 2008 and currently serves as a special assistant to the general manager.

It’s pretty amazing that the Knicks seriously went from tied for the fourth-worst record to being alone as the sixth-worst record through an overtime win in the last game in the NBA before the season went on hiatus (and quite possibly ended for the season).

Well…not amusing “ha ha,” that is.

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297 thoughts to “Bleacher Report: Begley: Knicks Could Give Allan Houston, Scott Perry Front Office Roles”

  1. it’s never a good sign when they’re keeping alan houston around for god knows what reason

  2. DRed:
    it’s never a good sign when they’re keeping alan houston around for god knows what reason

    dude had a silky jumper…and got a good bounce…

  3. ***”it’s never a good sign when they’re keeping alan houston around for god knows what reason”***

    It would be fitting if Rose found a way to fire Jerome Williams while keeping Houston around.

  4. speaking of good westerns, watched seraphim falls again today…really nice slow paced revenge flick (is liam’s neeson in any other kind of film but a revenge flick)…

    the opening scenes remind me a bit of the revenant, which while beautifully shot didn’t quite work for me from a story and acting perspective…

    seraphim falls does work…in large part cuz of the fine acting and simple story…the landscape is beautifully shot…

    what a wonderful lazy weekend…watching movies like crazy and got a bunch of rest…looking forward to getting started on the wire this week with the free hbo now app…

    life’s slowed down a bit and should have a chance to get in a little smoother work/life groove this week…still busy, but, just a little less so…

    stay safe and sane everyone…

    wishing you both the best farfa and mioz…

  5. You know..I don’t think I mind Rose giving both Perry & H20 roles in the new FO. Houston developed rather nicely over his career and grew up a ton with the Knicks, maybe a player development role might be good for him. Hell..maybe the permanent HC can offer him a role. I’m not in favor of having a million coaches, but maybe we can have specialty coaches kinda like NFL teams have. Have one coach strictly for big, one strictly for wings, and one for PG’s. Houston could teach our guards a ton about shooting and playing off of screens. Just a thought..i mean I’m sure teams have a similar structure but I’m not sure exactly how specialty based it is. So I’d say go with the specialty structure, and then depending on which way your HC leans (offense or defense), hire the lead assistant to run the other side of the floor. I dunno..it’s either progressive or crazy but what does the team have to lose? Shit is already in disarray.

    Just for theory’s sake it could look like:
    HC- Kenny Atkinson
    AHC- Mike Miller
    Bigs- Sheed
    Wings- Houston
    PG’s- Prigs

    Is that too many voices? I just want something different. I don’t expect that particular layout, those are just names that popped in my head of folks I think may do well in specialized roles.

    I dunno

  6. It seems like people just knee jerk react negatively to any former Knick who has been a part of the front office staying on board or getting promoted. And with Houston I feel like there is also a knee jerk negative reaction towards him because he was given such a huge final contract as a player that he didn’t live up to.

    But Houston seems like a smart basketball guy. And he’s been heading up our G-League team, which has been a bright spot in our organization. Also, for the pro-Miller crowd, Houston being promoted is a good sign.

    I have no problem giving Houston a role in the organization.

  7. It’s really hard to judge about Houston since managing the Westchester Knick’s isn’t something there’s a lot of press on. He also doesn’t pick some of the Westchester Knick players. But I assume he did hire Miller and select some of the players. The results were very good. The players there got better and they also won games. So I am for giving Houston something to do. Given the Knicks recent history it’s hard to argue with having having basically competent people in the organization.

  8. That’s where I’m coming from. Just because a large organization or company is dysfunctional doesn’t mean everyone in that organization is incompetent. There can be departments within companies that thrive or do well despite the overall incompetence if they have some relative autonomy and it seems like this is kind of the case with Westchester. Its a little removed from the real team and MSG so it can thrive under the radar and Houston has been the guy in charge of that.

    I think the challenge any new person like Rose faces when they come in is identifying who the problems are and who the potential good people are in an organization that is dysfunctional. Cleaning house completely causes a lot of chaos but keeping the incompetents around doesn’t clean house. Its a tougher balancing act than I think most people realize.

    Houston was a great shooter too. We need a shooting coach!

  9. Why can’t the Knicks just fire holdovers from previous regimes? Like how most teams operate?

    Dolan’s spent most his time as owner trying to keep his menagerie of mediocre executives together. It’s bizarre. At this point it feels like he’s just trying to buy ‘friendship’ from these guys or whatever.

  10. Probably doesn’t mean much since it’s unlikely James Dolan is capable of hiring good replacements. May reinforce the idea the Dolan has moles planted throughout the org tho.

    I doubt Leon Rose is in love with the idea of Perry still being in the front office.

  11. Talking about the draft, Obi Toppin has great stats and passes my eye test but is only 9th on the consensus mock draft. What’s the knock on him?

  12. In the sports world, new coaches bring in their own teams of assistant coaches, but in the corporate world when there’s a takeover I think most new managements are looking to get rid of dead weight and keep talent. The talent in the ranks doesn’t get a top job, but they want them to stay. There’s nothing wrong with the Knicks behaving that way.

  13. I doubt Leon Rose is in love with the idea of Perry still being in the front office.

    Perry’s been good at the trades and the contracts, for the most part. I have no issue with that. It’s not like Rose is coming in to spearhead a rebuild. He’s coming in to finally get whatever you call this strategy Dolan wants done right.

  14. Talking about the draft, Obi Toppin has great stats and passes my eye test but is only 9th on the consensus mock draft. What’s the knock on him?

    Old for a sophomore (22), bad defensive stats and eye-test is no better.

  15. I’d just like to mention — with a cautious knock on wood — that I appreciate this thread being basketball focused. The past couple of days felt like having my teeth turned.

  16. thenoblefacehumper: Old for a sophomore (22), bad defensive stats and eye-test is no better.

    Thanks. You mean defensive eye test? I watched offensive highlights and he looks good, with nice post moves. His handle is shaky, he’ll commit even more turnovers in the pros, but this typically improves.

  17. Houston will be in our front office some day whether we like it or not

    Might as well get it over with and find out

  18. Toppin only took 103 three pointers in college to hit 41%, but shoots 70% from FT

    Derrick Williams took 90 threes and hit 51% and shot 72% from FT

    In 13 more 3PTA, Derrick Williams would need to hit -3 (yes, negative 3) to equal Toppin’s performance

    Williams could not shoot for crap in the NBA

    Toppin’s shooting sample is too small for me to believe in his shooting and modern PFs absolutely NEED to hit 3s. See generally, J. Randle.

  19. Thanks. You mean defensive eye test? I watched offensive highlights and he looks good, with nice post moves. His handle is shaky, he’ll commit even more turnovers in the pros, but this typically improves.

    Yep. No doubt he looks very polished offensively, but his age has people wondering just how much of that comes from bullying guys 3-4 years younger than him in a weak conference. He also doesn’t rebound all that well for a big.

  20. This organization has been so dysfunctional and incompetent for so long, absent evidence that someone around the team is actually very good, imo the default value should be to move on and bring in someone from outside you KNOW is good. Some of what’s going on now already seems political. It seems there are certain guys that Dolan likes and they are more or less protected. So Rose will stick with those guys for better or worse. This not what I was hoping for. I was hoping for as large a clean sweep as possible with a handful of exceptions and bringing in people with a proven track record of success at well run organizations. Its massively too early to judge Rose, but my first impression is “more of the same” incompetence and politics to come.

  21. 100% with Strat on this one. If you’ve been around the New York Knicks for a long time I’m going to assume you’re a dumbass and I’ll almost definitely be right.

  22. I generally don’t have strong opinions on the draft and don’t watch much college hoops until the tournaments, but I hope we’ve been doing some good scouting. If ever there are going to be some bargains this might be the year given less information, no tournament to see how players respond to better competition and higher pressure, and no combine or extended live interviews.

  23. This organization has been so dysfunctional and incompetent for so long, absent evidence that someone around the team is actually very good, imo the default value should be to move on and bring in someone from outside you KNOW is good.

    I often agree with you but not in this case; and, even if I did, I think the “ bring in someone from outside you KNOW is good.“ part is total fantasy. Of course there are people out you know are good, but they almost all have jobs (like Mike Budenholzer). You are likely to know more about a person from inside the organization than out of it and there are certainly some competent people inside any organization. Anyone you bring from outside likely to be a gamble. Look at Fizdale. The new Knicks management wanted a new coach, they did an actual search, they got recommendations and everything and he turned out to be worse than the in-house guy, Mike Miller, who they could have just promoted.

    Let me give an example from a job I used to have. We had an opening, and were looking to hire externally. There was another part of the company being shrunk at the time. (The relatively new management of the company was changing things). I talked to the manager of that section and he said one person being downsized was his best employee. So i insisted on getting a resume for that person. Once I looked at the resume, I realized it was good for the new position and that if I had gotten the resume but it was from some external company, I would be wondering why was that person leaving, but here I knew it was an upper management decision and no fault of that person’s. So I went to the hiring manager of the new position and said at least do an interview. So he did, and he decided to hire that person. There was actually pushback from top management, maybe because of the sort of sentiment you just expressed, but the hiring manager was firm and that person got the new job. Continued below.

  24. Within six months, that person was the hiring manager’s best employee and he was very happy he hired her.

    That organization had dysfunction at the top and it still turned out to be right to hire internally.

  25. You say you want a clean sweep with exceptions who have proven themselves. Wouldn’t Houston count as one of those guys vis a vis the success of the G-League team?

  26. A social distancing cautionary anecdote: today I had to return a vent hood to Home Depot. The store was lining people up in a cordoned off area outside the entrance and had a girl slowly letting people in.

    So, I’m heading to the back of the line behind this 30-ish, heavy set guy who doesn’t look like he spends much time on personal hygiene. Then, the dude sneezes quite dramatically (I’m about 8 or so feet behind him), which alarms me, then he proceeds to WIPE HIS NOSE WITH HIS NAKED HAND! I stopped and took a wide berth around the area where he sneezed. Then I resumed, about 10 feet or so behind him. He continued to sniffle and wipe his nose with his hand as he made his way up the line and was waved on into the store.

    After I returned to the car, I put a whole bunch of hand sanitizer on my hands, and I also spread some around on and under my nose.

    I did tell the girl what I’d seen, but she just kind of shrugged, so I’m wondering what purpose she serves…

  27. >I often agree with you but not in this case;<

    I understand the point you are making. Typically I might agree with you, but this is the Knicks. Finding a competent person within this organization is probably like finding a unicorn. Even when we do, we either trade them away or allow them to leave and prove their worth for another organization. I'm in the fumigate camp.

  28. my expectations for other humans are low…really, really low…i just assume most people will do weird messed up stuff (at least from my perspective)…hope and look for the best, expect the worse, always…probably a pretty depressing way for most to live…i just accept it all as part of the natural order of things…

    i actually find myself pleasantly surprised by people when they do the right kind of stuff…it’s fun to make note of those occurrences as life moves along…

    you seem to have a good heart clash fan :)

    interesting pics out of china today…hopefully they can avoid any type of resurgence of the virus,,,

    sorry KBPR…there just doesn’t seem enough b-ball news to keep my mind fixated on it…hell, my focus sucked even at the beginning of the season…

  29. Sorry guys, but this team has been so bad for so long, that any strategy that doesn’t include burning every part of the front office down to the cinders and then pouring lye and salt is wrong.

    No to Houston or Perry. Perry was somehow ok with getting Portis, Randle, Morris, Taj Gibson in one season. He was ok giving spot minutes in a lost season to Dotson, Trier, Frank at times, Mitch at times, not playing Wooten or Iggy.

    He made a couple of good moves with the KP trade (although I’d so much rather have him than Randle and the others, imagine Frank, Dot, RJ l, KP, and Mitch playing together?), and the Morris offload. Not good enough.

    To get from here to Spurs/Toronto competency in the front office absolutely requires everyone out.

    That’s why I was ok with giving up picks for Masai.

  30. Sorry guys, but this team has been so bad for so long, that any strategy that doesn’t include burning every part of the front office down to the cinders and then pouring lye and salt is wrong.

    How is this even remotely controversial? I don’t understand the other view here whatsoever. Is there any reason to believe that Houston and/or Perry were strong dissenters to, like, 95% of the decisions made by the organization that employed them? Does anyone actually believe this or is this some contrarian thing I don’t understand?

    KnickFanInNJ, your anecdote would be a better fit if your company had a 20 year record of god awful decision making, like arguably the single worst decision making in the entire field during that period, and the internal candidate had a very powerful job(s) during some or all of that time. Of course, no such anecdote exists because companies without artificial monopolies simply go under if they act like the Knicks.

    No one is arguing against the notion that sometimes internal promotion can be a good thing. But when it comes to the New York f’in Knicks? My god, I’d clear house of everyone.

  31. Randle: *Dribbles 3 extra times then spins to set up an ill advised 20 footer with a shooter wide open in the corner*

    RJ: Bro, what you doin yo?!

    Randle: I had my shot

    RJ: But yo was open!

    Randle: Fiz told me to be the leading scorer..

    RJ: That’s not how you play ball no more and Fiz ain’t here. Yo..u had a mismatch in the paint and a shooter open. Look..trust me..I’ll get the ball to you when you got a mismatch- ask Mitch. Give it and roll..set a nice screen..grab some boards. We’ll feed you when you get to a spot that works.

    Randle: But Fiz said I gotta lead in..

    RJ: YOU NOT THAT GOOD!

    I can totally imagine a conversation similar to that happening in practice lol

  32. what if we were to rank BB IQ for our current roster…julius can make some nice passes occasionally, but, both him and payton were way careless with the ball this season…to be fair, both of them led the team in assists per game too…

    but, that was a part of the vet leadership we brought in…one of the things which stuck out to me the most this season was clyde criticizing elf and julius for their poor decisions all the time…

    RJ though can’t say much himself about julius’ loose handle or poor decision making,he was second on the team in turnovers per game…

    i can’t remember, but – doesn’t RJ have like a canadian accent…

  33. @Geo, it’s all good… tbh I’m just laying breadcrumbs for the mystery in all my comments. One of the small pleasures I’m partaking in during this quarantine. Trying to bring you one step closer to the truth like Andrew Garfield in Silence.

  34. I feel like you are just saying fire everyone and not actually listening to my argument.

    The Westchester Knicks have legitimately been a bright spot in this franchise and Houston has been the guy running Westchester.

    He also happens to be a former Knick. I’m not saying that should give him carte blanche to never get fired but there’s a different between firing Mills or Perry or Kurt Rambis and firing Houston, who literally was part of the most incredible Knicks playoff run ever and also has probably a top 5 Knicks greatest plays ever under his belt.

    I wouldn’t say he’s a legend the same way Ewing or Clyde are but if he has been in charge of something that has done well, it seems foolish to fire him just to “clean house.”

    I would posit that we’ve cleaned house all ready. We got rid of Mills. Perry is maybe the only one left. SHould we fire Miller too even though he did a good job? I wouldn’t be against that since its not like he had some super long tenure as our coach, but if Miller and Houston have a good working relationship and have shown success, why fire them just to shake things up?

    I mean, shit Breen and Clyde have been commentators during this horrible 21st century run. Maybe we should clean house with them too. Couldn’t hurt, right?

  35. Andrew Garfield in Silence

    i gotta be honest, i wasn’t so happy with him as spiderman…it just never worked for me…that movie looks really interesting though…my dream trip is to go hang out in japan for a few weeks just going along the coast for a bit and visiting some temples inland…maybe check out some samurai exhibitions…always wanted to catch a baseball game there too…

    started doing a little trip researching and pricing, but, not that serious about actually making it happen yet…

    Trying to bring you one step closer to the truth

    well then, keep it coming, because – just like fox, i want to believe…

  36. I mean, shit Breen and Clyde have been commentators during this horrible 21st century run. Maybe we should clean house with them too. Couldn’t hurt, right?

    this most decidedly ain’t it, chief

  37. It’s really hard to judge Perry. He did bring in all those guys, but the contracts, but with the exception of Portis, Randle, Morris and Harkless, are all under $10million a year and don’t last long. Randle makes what competent starting NBA players who are good scorers make. Morris’s contract got us assets in return. Harkless is expiring. Only Portis is obviously overpaid. The rest of the contracts are all below NBA starter money. I just can’t get that upset about spending that money. What is a worry is that the team wasn’t balanced and didn’t have a good mix of players. I don’t know if that is Perry’s fault. It could be Mills. I’m also not sure that was fixable. With so many new players it was going to take a while for the team to gel anyway and there was also no potential set of free agents available that would have given us a winning team after Kyrie and Durant chose Brooklyn. I’d much rather have this than the sort of expensive mistakes Elton Brand seems to be making.

  38. The Westchester Knicks have legitimately been a bright spot in this franchise and Houston has been the guy running Westchester.

    Google is your friend my man:

    “In 2008, Houston was hired by the New York Knicks as assistant to the president for basketball operations.[14] In December 2010, Houston was promoted to the position of assistant general manager.[15] As of July 2019, Houston is special assistant to the general manager of the Knicks;[16] he was also general manager of the Westchester Knicks, the organization’s G League affiliate.”

    Basically he’s been GM of the Westies (whatever that means, it’s not like he picks the players) for a hot sec. Meanwhile he’s had a significant role with the big league team for over a decade, during which time the team has sucked total ass entirely on account of the terrible decisions its front office has made.

    Again, unless his entire tenure as assistant GM/POBO has consisted of him screaming “PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS STUPID THING” all the time it’s very hard to imagine he’s a “sharp basketball mind” or whatever.

  39. It’s really hard to judge Perry. He did bring in all those guys, but the contracts, but with the exception of Portis, Randle, Morris and Harkless, are all under $10million a year and don’t last long.

    Notice what you didn’t say here, which is that any of these moves were actually, you know, good, outside of Morris which we fell ass backwards into after he reneged on an agreement with the Spurs.

    We (mostly) all agree that Perry seems better than Phil, Isiah, etc. simply because he knows how to not completely and utterly derail a team for years. Some of us just think the most valuable franchise in the NBA can do even better than that in a head executive.

  40. The problem with Perry is not contracts. It’s that he doesn’t recognize talented/productive players well or have a clue how to fit players together coherently. He’s 100% the opposite of Phil. In fact, if Perry was the GM in charge of contracts, Gaines was in charge of drafting, and Phil was in charge of team construction and style of play, they may have actually been competent.

  41. Dang Strat, one of my favorite moments in a day is when you write something I agree with. I thought this was going to be it with those first two sentences, but then…

  42. ***unless his entire tenure as assistant GM/POBO has consisted of him screaming “PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS STUPID THING” all the time it’s very hard to imagine he’s a “sharp basketball mind” or whatever***

    More likely, his tenure consisted of him saying things like “Mr Dolan, Leon Rose has put a trade together for Carmelo Anthony, but Donnie doesn’t want to do it” and “Mr Dolan, Leon Rose has put a trade together for Andre Bargnani but Glen doesn’t want to do it” and “Mr Dolan, Leon Rose has put together a trade for Eddy Curry but Isiah is quibbling over pick protections.”

  43. he doesn’t recognize talented/productive players well or have a clue how to fit players together coherently.

    I would say the Knicks don’t know how to do this. It’s not clear to me that is Perry, per se.

    As I said above, it’s hard to tell how much he had to do with this. I would have loved to have a coherent team on the floor, but he may have been handicapped, by orders from above. He also was unlucky with injuries. If one of our power forward/centers had been injured instead of Payton, the Knicks would probably have had a better record.

  44. Notice what you didn’t say here, which is that any of these moves were actually, you know, good,

    I agree, I didn’t say that and I don’t think it either. I would have liked a more Nets like strategy. But I think the idea of using the free agent dollars to be competitive came from above him. His execution of that wasn’t horrible, and I’m not sure there were other players available that he could get that would have made the team a lot better. This is what makes him so hard to judge. The only straw available to grasp is that he was clearly in the trade Morris for a first round pick camp, not the make a win now move that Mills clearly favored.

  45. I just want a guy who puts an organization together than can draft and develop talent. I do not care one bit about landing big fish in free agency. Make 2 defensible picks a year, fill broad needs through free agency (like shooting, defense, and rebounding), and the stars will come. Mitchell Robinson and RJ Barrett is a good start. See what we have in Lamar Peters and Tony Wooten, and maybe try to salvage Ntilikina and Knox.

    All of this “scramble for 2 seasons then try to land the next superstar” shit is tiring and I’d much rather Dolan look to the other sports teams in New York in terms of acquiring stars. Aaron Judge, Jacob DeGrom, Pete Alonso, Jamal Adams, and Saquon Barkley were all drafted and developed by their organizations. If Dolan would pay $10M a year to a guy who would get him his Jeter instead of his A Rod maybe we’d be better off.

  46. The problem with Perry is not contracts. It’s that he doesn’t recognize talented/productive players well or have a clue how to fit players together coherently. He’s 100% the opposite of Phil. In fact, if Perry was the GM in charge of contracts, Gaines was in charge of drafting, and Phil was in charge of team construction and style of play, they may have actually been competent.

    Yeah, you see, the only problem with the Derrick Rose-Courtney Lee-Carmelo Anthony-Kristaps Porzingis-Joakim Noah team was that the contracts were bad.

    The “team construction and style of play” were beautiful, hence the *checks notes* 31 wins.

  47. “the Derrick Rose-Courtney Lee-Carmelo Anthony-Kristaps Porzingis-Joakim Noah team”

    The really jaw-dropping aspect of this is that it actually DOES look better than four power forwards and a (pick one from the dumpster) terrible point guard.

    But gawd did I hate that team.

  48. Are you kidding me??! Do you seriously think they should keep front office execs due to their experience as a player?!

    Come the fk on. If there was ever a team in all of sports in need of a full scale front office change, with as much of the coaches and players gone too for good measure, it’s this team.

    You want a path to real success? It starts with good decisions. Good trades, signings, drafts, coaching, and then… good games. There is no one in this front office who has proven to me that he was worth a bag of crap.

    Your path to success starts with a guy like Masai, and fk it, maybe Rose is that guy. But that guy has to burn any remnants of the stupid ass shit that this team has been doing for twenty years.

    And if Rose keeps people like Perry – who did all the shit I wrote up in a previous comment – and keeps Houston…. a Rose by any other name smells like shit.

  49. The truth is I’ve been through this shit before with all of you. I felt excited about Walsh, he seemed competent, but the Isaiahs of the team thought Melo was worth a thousand assets… on to each and every Phil-like, fiz-talking, Perry asking us for patience while they do it the right way and sign 80% of your cap to nonshooting bigs in the modern NBfkingA , with the starfucking, sounds great on paper like Melo and Amare, that is so based on faulty fucking logic like hey we’re getting Durant so let’s clear space….
    Nobody deserves the benefit of the doubt on this fking team. Give me a break. Rose is a shitty GM until proven otherwise.
    If he has decided to keep the bones of the previous regime because he thought it was worth evaluating?? He’s a dumbass, and we’ve bought all the bridges around, and moving on to tunnels

  50. maybe try to salvage Ntilikina and Knox.

    you don’t try to salvage frank ntilikina, frank ntilikina salvages you…

  51. have a clue how to fit players together coherently. He’s 100% the opposite of Phil

    hahahahahahahahah ugh this was good

  52. Is the original tweet racist?

    I was struggling to think of something a gorilla could commit a turnover with but perhaps I missed the mark….

  53. I just saw “Once Upon a Time in Hollywood” on demand thru Starz, its another movie based during the 60’s but unlike “13 Days” don’t think it would stir a huge debate here. Unless we have some Quentin Tarantino haters….

  54. Owen: Is the original tweet racist?

    Probably not intentionally, but yeah,

    Owen: but perhaps I missed the mark….

    Yeah, bad road to go down. Nothing but respect for you though, Owen. You will always get the benefit of the doubt with me.

  55. BigBlueAL: Unless we have some Quentin Tarantino haters….

    I didn’t see Once Upon a Time in Hollywood but his latest ones are boring as hell to me. Pulp Fiction was good, and Kill Bill 1 not bad. Everything else? blah.

  56. jackie brown – blah???

    that’s a beautiful pic, with a still sexy pam grier…

    chris tucker getting in to the trunk is a classic…

    stagecoach scene with jennifer leigh in the hateful eight ain’t too bad…

    if you like “B” movies deathproof is a classic…

    christopher waltz’s performance in inglorious basterds is pretty noteworthy…

  57. Just an unpleasant even if unintentional connotation, Owen. I think we all know you’re not suggesting anything untoward. You’re not *that guy*, that much I’m sure of.

  58. Ingmarrr, I like your politics, but your film criticism…man. The opening 15 minutes of Basterds is about the least boring thing I’ve ever seen. Just pure freaking genius. It made an odd, little-known German actor a star, that’s how good it was. The rest is hardly boring, either, with again, a really taut scene in the restaurant when Waltz and Laurent are sitting next to each other, having a pleasant chat about using her theater for a screening. Wait, and of course the awesome scene in the bar with Fassbender! Wow, man, boring?? I can understand not liking his aesthetic, but BORING???

    In other news, the FO sucks and should be burned to the ground and Rose is probably just as terrible as every other loser who’s paraded through our franchise in the last few decades.

    (I do think Perry negotiated some excellent deals, though. Probably is, with generally terrible players.)

  59. That said, by the way, I think 30% of Q’s success was his now-departed film editor. She was brilliant, and Once Upon a Time suffers from her absence.

  60. Guys, I just wanted to come on here and say how much I appreciate this blog.

    I’m really scared right now. My wife is about to have a baby. We both still have jobs but work in live entertainment ticketing. Her company laid off 30 percent of their work force and just reduced her salary. My job seems safe but for how long when all I do all day is issue refunds to people and there is zero revenue coming in?

    I couldn’t sleep last night. What if we both get laid off right when we have a new baby? We moved across country to a new city where we literally know no one. Her family is 3 hours away. Will we have to move in with her retired mom and dad at age 42 with an infant baby?

    I’ve spent my whole life working in live entertainment. I’m really worried that live theatre and concerts might not even be a thing anymore and if they are, its going to be much more rare and expensive and therefore not something most people will do often. I have no other skills. I’m freaking out.

    I won’t even go into the doomsday scenarios that play out in my head when I think about the upcoming trip to the hospital that my wife and I have to make when she delivers. What if we get sick while we are there? What if the baby gets sick? What if we both get sick and the baby doesn’t, who will care for her?

    I know my relative position right now is really good. I’ve got a house. We got two decent paying jobs. We’re in a city that isn’t overwhelmed (yet). But I’m scared. I have days that are better than others but the last 24 hours its been really dark for me.

  61. Pulp Fiction was the peak of his vision and execution, Basterds the most thematically rich. Waltz was the perfect actor for one of the most ambitious and well-executed roles in film history. Jackie Brown, Reservoir Dogs, and Kill Bill 1 were all immense flexes of style and tone, all ambitious in their own way. I’ve only seen Django once, and I remember it being strong. (Funny that the titular role was IIRC written for Will Smith but he passed on it because it wasn’t meaty enough for a superstar like him. Hilarious.) Hateful Eight struck me as sadistic, much like Reservoir Dogs, and perhaps overly long; I can’t imagine watching the extended version. Death Proof was the same as Dogs/Jackie/KB in the sense that it’s all an exercise in style, and one that I did not give one fuck about, but it’s been years so maybe I’m wrong. Kill Bill 2 is one of my favorites, pulpy in all the right ways, and superior to its flashy-fun predecessor.

    Looking forward to Once Upon a Time once we work through the backlog. Just finished Tiger King (holy shit) and going to chew on a palate cleanser before diving back into human misery and cruelty.

  62. I’m really worried that live theatre and concerts might not even be a thing anymore

    It absolutely will be a thing again, but the shorter-term future is up in the air. Lady J and I were talking about this on a walk the other day: it’s not just that current tours are canceled, but it’s suspending the planning of future tours as well. How do you, today, plan and insure a concert in, say, July? If you’re a big touring operation (say, >20 people), how do you handle production planning? How do you put down a deposit on touring rentals when there’s a good possibility that people are skittish of going in big groups for the next six months to a year? All very scary stuff. But it absolutely will come back. Question is when.

    I know my relative position right now is really good. I’ve got a house. We got two decent paying jobs. We’re in a city that isn’t overwhelmed (yet). But I’m scared. I have days that are better than others but the last 24 hours its been really dark for me.

    My company of 18,000+ just announced that all salaried employees (even executives) taking mandatory 2-week furloughs in Q2. It’s a scary time. At the very least, unemployment insurance guidelines have been relaxed and the crumbs we’re getting from the stimulus package should keep food on your table. Your opinions on basketball are irrelevant today, brother. I hope you come out of this okay.

  63. swiftandabundant,

    Your mind is racing. You are searching for worst case scenarios. That’s normal. It’s part of being under extreme stress and feelings of anxiety. Personally, I think it’s a sign of intelligence because when you are thinking about worst case scenarios you are also thinking about solutions.

    Just keep in mind, those are worst case scenarios, They aren’t the most likely scenario. The data coming out of Europe now is encouraging and more or less following hopes. There are even green shoots of optimism coming out of NY right now. Just hang in there. I was a mess a couple of weeks ago, but I’m starting to get encouraged. We’ll get through this, Just protect yourself and do smart responsible things.

  64. My brother and I have a running argument over Tarantino movies, he likes every one, I’m pretty meh on everything since Pulp Fiction. I will agree with Rama that the opening scene of Inglorious Basterds was as good as it gets.

    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood – I really enjoyed all the 60’s references – music, commercials, movies – but IMO totally overrated, too long and kind of silly. And I really don’t understand all the Brad Pitt accolades, he plays basically the same guy in every movie. Watch him in Inglourious Basterds and Once Upon a Time and tell me it’s not the same exact character.

  65. he plays basically the same guy in every movie

    Have you seen Burn After Reading? You should go watch that one.

  66. >Is the original tweet racist?

    I was struggling to think of something a gorilla could commit a turnover with but perhaps I missed the mark….<

    Three things.

    1. My first thought was that some people might think it was racist.
    2. My second thought was that I was 100% sure that was not the intent because I know you well enough from here to know that much.
    3, Some people make accusations for political purposes without any consideration for intent or the destruction of innocent people they can cause, but there aren't any people like that here thank goodness.

    No problemo here in my book.

  67. Swift, I wish I could say something to comfort you. But I agree with Jowles; people will want to get out as soon as they think the virus has petered out. Hopefully all goes well with you — congrats on the new baby to come!

    Still no Farfa?

    The only QT movie that I don’t like is Reservoir Dogs. That one just doesn’t work for me, even as an “apprentice” work leading up to the brilliant Pulp Fiction. Hateful Eight is just okay…I’m not interested in watching again. Hollywood is pretty good, I’ll definitely watch again.

  68. 12 monkeys was definitely a milquetoast role for Brad Pitt. Definitely, someone who shouldn’t be buried at the Hollywood Cemetary.

  69. >Dang Strat, one of my favorite moments in a day is when you write something I agree with. I thought this was going to be it with those first two sentences, but then…<

    lmao

    I knew I was going into dangerous territory with those comments, but my Xanax is working great this week, my mother and brother are fully stocked with food, my girlfriend is behaving rationally related to the virus, and I was certain I could put that out there, avoid another debate, and just chill. :-)

  70. Swift,

    I was in your position in 2008. This is a lot scarier, but Strat is right in saying that worst-case scenarios rarely come to fruition.

    People will rush to gather for live performances as soon as is humanly possible. Don’t worry about that. But in the meantime, now is a good time to try and expand your skillset.

    You are clearly a good communicator. Maybe you can ask your job if you can add some copywriting and/or editing duties to your workload? This is something all companies need, you can do it remotely, and they will end up really needing your services. And if you have any style or grammar questions, there are tons of resources on the internet.

    I would also strongly suggest you get involved with any live streaming performance work your company is launching or considering if at all possible. This is only getting bigger because of the virus, and it will soon be a legit option for consumers — even after things return to normal.

    And as an aside, there are apparently many ways to defray house/car/loan payments right now (although I haven’t looked into it myself), but in theory, this should help a lot of people out.

    Good luck,

    Ess

  71. Thank you everyone.

    Ess, I like your ideas. Our marketing department has a content coordinator position that is vacating and they are not going to refill it for the time being, so I could take up some of that slack and learn a few things.

    I should clarify. I don’t own. I rent. Just happy to be in a house right now and not in a small apartment in LA or NYC, where I previously lived, especially self isolating with a baby on the way.

    I started going down this road late yesterday when a customer, one who place an order before I started working here, got really mad at me for the way we were handling her refund. Won’t go into details but she was just being very difficult and shady about it and was demanding to speak to my supervisor. I basically told her “no” that the issue was resolved and she proceeded to reach out to a bunch of high level people and our HR department through social media. I’m all ready nervous about my job and to have someone attack me like this really created a lot of anxiety within me.

    The good news is my boss totally has my back and the HR department too. The box office had experience working with her previously and knew she was kind of nuts, but still. I pride myself on being super nice and providing excellent customer service, so it really hurt and made me extremely anxious.

  72. I have several friends who live in squalid apartments in NYC because they, in normal times, work and socialize constantly, only returning home to sleep, basically. I cannot imagine what it’s like for them right now.

  73. I don’t care for Tarantino at all. I was in film school when Pulp Fiction came out and everybody there had convinced themselves it was the greatest movie ever made. I wasn’t buying it, though, and none of his subsequent movies made me come around on him. But, I understand that some people get a thrill from that kind of stuff, and though it’s not my preferred style of filmmaking, it is still A style of filmmaking, and I respect that.

  74. I gotta know what else Donnie dislikes. Parasite, the entirety of Tarantino… what else?

  75. ****I gotta know what else Donnie dislikes. Parasite, the entirety of Tarantino… what else?****

    I have pretty strong opinions about most movies I see one way or the other, and if you asked me that question a month ago, I’d have provided a long list of purportedly “good” movies that I think are bad. But I’ve been in “think positive thoughts” mode for too long, and I can’t just flip a switch and start spouting off all the movies I’ve hated.

    But if you name some, I’m sure I’ll remember how I felt about them :)

  76. I don’t dislike the Beatles. I just don’t like them very much!

    Also, I think I’ve admitted to not liking a lot of the TV shows people love. But, unlike with movies (and the Beatles), I only watched an episode or two of them, not the entire body, so it’s not the same. If I invest in something, I’m going to have a strong opinion about it by the end.

  77. I liked Pulp Fiction a lot, was less into the overall plot of Bastards but liked specific scenes, and not into QT’s other stuff (actually hated Django.) I don’t see a lot of creativity, only variations on the same themes, e.g. the intense showdown that ends badly, the twisting of a historic backdrop with hokey alternative outcomes, the gratuitous use of language and violence for shock value. I prefer The Usual Suspects to anything QT has done, even though there were some similar features.

    Didn’t care for Parasite as much as many. Loved 1917 and Little Women. Meh on Hollywood. That is all.

  78. Of note, Tarantino revered Sergio Leone and thinks The Good, The Bad and The Ugly was the greatest movie ever made. You can see lots of Leone’s influence in QT’s work…but it seems cheapened, not refined.

  79. “I don’t care for Tarantino at all. I was in film school when Pulp Fiction came out and everybody there had convinced themselves it was the greatest movie ever made.”

    Great film making and acting with glances and facial expressions. Victor Lazlow’s look at Major Strassa from the landing by Ric’s apartment shows all the hate a human is capable of conjuring:

    https://youtu.be/HM-E2H1ChJM

  80. howdy swift…thoughts are with you brother…your concerns are very much understood…caring for others can be a really heavy weight to carry at times…having been broke and homeless as both a kid and an adult – you’ll be okay…this virus ain’t gonna last forever…the focus though now is simply on trying your best to keep those you love safe and healthy…

    they’ll be plenty of time for financial worry and concern afterwards…when things go wrong with your money, picking up the pieces suck, if you can maintain your health though – very good chance you will be able to do so…

    plan, prepare as best you can – then have faith that time and hard work will allow you to recover…

  81. swift, hang in there. A friend is a top booking agent, says she’s been moving lots of stuff into the Fall and doubling up in 2021. The future will come eventually…stasis won’t last forever. That said, even if it becomes really hard, there are always more people to help hold you up than you imagine. Teetering on the edge, it looks like a long way down, and that can be terrifying…but you have wings, even if you can’t currently see them. Worst case is a controlled glide to the ground – just keep your head together and you’ll come through for your family.

    Peace!

  82. I have several friends who live in squalid apartments in NYC

    I’m thinking more about the people with two families – legit and less so. Gotta have led to a lot of difficult conversations….

  83. “Deleted Owen quote”

    WOW…. just WOW….

    Pardon me for Chortling at the delicious irony here but re-tweeting an incredibly racist tweet of a gorilla doing uncontrollable spin-a-ramas under a caption of an NBA player’s brain something, something AND THEN ADDING…. wait for it…

    “I wish he had a banana that would fly out of his hand and into the bushes…..

    Is just unbelievable!

    And then asking sheepishly….”Is the tweet racist?” Nahhhh…. nothing to see here… good work!!!

    But the pièce de résistance has to be Joweles instantly coming to your defense with his usual all knowing and unique ability to conjure people’s souls:

    “Just an unpleasant even if unintentional connotation, Owen. I think we all know you’re not suggesting anything untoward. You’re not *that guy*, that much I’m sure of.”

    Yeah Joweles…. I’m sure the original tweet was posted by a guy that unintentionally just happened to pick a gorilla to represent a black NBA basketball player.

    You woke fellows can find some “interesting” excuses for members of the club……

    There has never been anything remotely as racist as this ever posted on this board over the past half dozen years.

    Complete and utter tone deafness is the best possible rational explanation…. you fella should be chastened a bit after this sad episode.

    In what universe is it ok to compare a gorilla out of control to the brain of a black athlete. It wasn’t in the 1980’s when college kids dressed up in gorilla suits when Ewing and Georgetown came to town and it isn’t today under any circumstances.

  84. @rama
    Many of my former students in East Harlem have exactly that circumstance. Multiple families in small single-family NYCHA apartments with one or more of the inhabitants having to work. It’s heartbreaking.
    @swift,
    I agree with the above sentiments. Focus on the joyous occasion of the birth of your child and his/her well being. You seem to be deservedly well regarded by your current employer and that bodes well for your future prospects. We are all in for a rocky year ( or so) as the rules of engagement in society have yet to be rewritten. Being intelligent and adaptive will serve you well.

  85. Is just unbelievable!

    Yeah, let ‘im have it! Drag him!

    Oh, and let us know when you find Obama’s real birth certificate, too!

  86. 12 monkeys was definitely a milquetoast role for Brad Pitt.

    still and all – favorite pitt role is floyd from true romance…i just love it…

    after leaving uncle sam-antha’s bosom, and not really knowing what was next – i moved to tampa because of 12 monkeys – seriously…i was sick and getting sicker at the time (i wasn’t sure what was going on though) – but, somehow in my head i was sure i was meant to go to tampa…

    after six months of getting denied by every company i applied to and reverting to showing up at different companies to simply fill in applications i finally left…i remember the low point of my job search was getting a “thank you/no thank you” letter in the mail from martin marrieta – i remember standing by the mailbox, staring at the letter and thinking i hadn’t even applied to them…why were they telling me they didn’t want me (i was working with some junior officer recruiting companies – pretty sure they must have applied for me)…

    I guess if you’re unemployed, best to be unemployed in a beautiful area at least…

    turned out funny – finally gave up on tampa (years later would give orlando a try), moved to san jose to stay with mom…first week there went to this huge “west tech” job fair (this was back in the mid 90’s) and got hired for a really good job working at a semi conductor manufacturing company the following week…after six months of searching in tampa, found work in a single week after moving to san jose…

    the company was like 3 blocks from ma’s house…ended up getting a lot sicker and had to quit the job a couple of years later, but, was still funny how that job search worked out…i absolutely suck at job interviews…

    i imagine my somewhat eccentric personality comes across as just being really intense and weird…

    thank god you all know i’m not really weird at all :)

  87. When it comes to movies, music, and even food, I am not a big fan of critics.

    Experts and critics often come into these things with defined standards of what “good” or “great” is when what’s going on out there among real people is a kind of bell curve of subjective tastes.

    Even a 4 Michelin Star chef shouldn’t say “this dish needs more seasoning”.

    IMO, that’s horse shit. Maybe the “standard” among chefs requires more salt and most people would prefer more salt, but some of us would hate the dish prepared that way and prefer it exactly as it is. There is no right way. You are cooking for a specific group of customers or individuals with different preferences. That’s the standard. Did you please your specific customers?

    I heard all the hype about Pulp Fiction when it was first released. Critics and film makers loved it. When I watched it I thought it was good filler movie if I was bored out of my mind and there was nothing else on. I never watched it again.

  88. “Yeah, let ‘im have it! Drag him!”

    That’s your MO my friend (and many in the Greek Chorus). I don’t know Owen from Adam….I have no understanding of what he is really like. You… on the other hand (and others of your ilk) are so incredibly quick to smear anyone who doesn’t fall lockstep with your particular world vision.

    The only thing I will say with metaphysical certainty is The original tweet is incredibly racist and Owen was extremely tone deaf to re-tweet it. I know of nothing beyond that excepting your incredible hubris.

    He doesn’t need to apologize to me under any circumstances. Who the fuck am I? He might want to reconsider with a little introspection why he found the tweet so amusing in the first place, and you might want to reconsider why you felt it so necessary to come to a comrade’s defense when the tweet was so obviously offensive…. but we already know the answer…. “Two legs bad….. four legs good!!!”

  89. “Woke bob is my favorite bob”

    Bob is my favorite Bob :-)

    Please inform me where I am off base here?

  90. I love when conservatives get upset that not every lib’rul is a cancel-culture, no-second-chances-under-any-circumstancesm, politically-correct zealot. It’s especially funny when they pump hot, flaming, racist garbage into their heads for hours at a time and then have the gall to tell me what position I’m supposed to have on a given topic.

    Edit: And sure enough, while I wrote this post, Bob responded with a treatise on how I’m supposed to react to this. Liddle Bob Neptune, getting his britches in a bunch because I’m not eviscerating a poster for a tone-deaf meme.

  91. it’s the scripts…the dialogue between characters that really grabs my attention with tarantino…i loved the writing in true romance, and really enjoyed from dusk til dawn

    dude is a genius wordsmith…

  92. “I love when conservatives get upset that not every lib’rul is a cancel-culture, no-second-chances-under-any-circumstancesm, politically-correct zealot. It’s especially funny when they pump hot, flaming, racist garbage into their heads for hours at a time and then have the gall to tell me what position I’m supposed to have on a given topic.”

    Of course everyone should believe what you believe because you are sooooooo bloody smart.

    When the facts are in your favor pound the facts…. when the law in in your favor pound the law… when neither are in your favor pound the table!

    That is your MO my friend. I don’t believe I’ve ever told anyone here what position THEY should hold. I have never called anyone’s morality into question….. but YOU my friend…. if I did a search of Joweles posts and listed how many time you’ve called someone a racist for not bending to the woke agenda how many hits might I find. Does the term googolplex mean anything to you?

  93. The irony of a Trump-defending ethnostate conservative using Animal Farm to make a point about herd mentality… simply amazing.

  94. “He’s doing that “pound the table” thing again”

    It is very useful when it is apropos…. in your case your form of discussion might be good among like minded folk at PS147 faculty lounge, but you made a statement and I challenged you to make an actual factual argument and you immediately resorted to snark while I await a semi-cogent reply.

  95. Thank you everyone. I feel better now. Weird that I come here for venting frustration and anxiety but this place really is a kind of therapy for me.

    I love Tarantino. Here’s the thing. Yes, he copes other director’s styles. And he loves to take on a genre with his films. But the stories are usually pretty original. And I think its pretty rare to have a director who is not only commercially successful but he also writes his own scripts, the stories are original and he still has art house cred.

    Usually if you direct mainstream hits, its going to be a super hero movie or a fast and furious movie or some super broad comedy. Its cool that he’s been able to do his thing, which is uniquely him, and stay relevant and also be commercially successful. Its pretty rare for a movie to be loved by the masses and have critical cool cred.

    I think Resevoir, Pulp, Jackie Brown and Once Upon a Time are his 4 best but there really isn’t one I dislike. The Kill Bill movies are actually my least favorite of his, though I need to rewatch them. Its been awhile.

    Brad was fun in Once Upon a Time but to me Leo was the best. He was so freaking funny. I think that’s the thing I love most about Tarantino films is they tend to be really funny.

  96. “The irony of a Trump-defending ethnostate conservative using Animal Farm to make a point about herd mentality… simply amazing.”

    You don’t know the foggiest thing about me, This “ethnostate” is pretty multiethnic, don’t you think?

    But I’m not going to allow you to shift the focus of this conversation from the indefensible one you have camped out my friend.

  97. holy cow bob…i din’t even have to alter this gif…amazingly enough it seems this subject has come up before in the world…

    this is your future sir…embrace it now…

    understand that we are right – because, we are right…resistance is futile…

  98. I, for one, believe that every voluminous long-term poster here reveals their underlying personality in some way.

    In Owen’s case, he has been here for like 15 years and to my knowledge, has never uttered anything that could even remotely be construed as racist, sexist, or anything else that would be considered biased or insensitive. He’s not tone deaf. If he were, then he’d be trying to defend his actions. Instead, he is apologizing for them.

    When I read his posts, and saw that no one was calling him out on it, I thought it was a good learning opportunity for him and tried to point it out as subtly as I could think of, knowing that it could lead to a firestorm. As I expected, Owen owned up to being wrong. That’s what classy people do. And as I expected, you jumped at the opportunity to cackle. So fucking tediously predictable.

    You, bobn, have zero class. you are a narcissistic curmudgeon with a huge chip on your shoulder. You justify your deeply-held blatantly racist views with this kind of bullshit false outrage. Problem is, you don’t have the intellect or character to pull it off. You think that by angrily bemoaning some kind of double-standard here, you reveal the hypocrisy of the “Greek Chorus” that you keep referring to. That in and of itself demonstrates your intellectual inferiority. You can’t even discern the nuanced views between various posters here whose main commonality is that they happen to reject most of the inane horseshit drivel you shamelessly go on about day after day.

    To paraphrase a from a movie that I’m sure you must have hated, “If you want to have a character debate, bob, stick with me. Because Owen is way out of your league.”

  99. It’s like when conservatives decry “activist judges” or “identity politics.” Just hilarious.

    Bob, do you think Obama was born in the United States?

  100. My son has a night light that shows the galaxy on the ceiling. One night we noticed that there were only seven planets represented. So now we have a running joke where we’ll be lying there with just the galaxy light on, and one of us will ask, “Where’s Neptune?” and the other will answer, “It’s in Uranus!” And peals of laughter will always ensue.

    It’s your tone, Bob. I don’t care about your politics, but your tone is ugly. Mean. Dispiriting. Even when Jowles is telling someone to drink bleach, he’s usually amusing.

    Owen was indeed amazingly tone deaf. Sadly, so are you.

  101. although i don’t believe i have much need for external validation, i do liked to be liked…life just seems to flow easier that way…

    i can’t imagine what it would be like to actively court confrontation…it seems stressful…i don’t know…i’m competitive, but, really only with myself…i’ve just never seen other people as having anything i’d want to take from them…so, i don’t really see myself in competition with others…

    you’re not alone in going against the stream here, or, taking a few whacks at some of the other posters…

    i wish someone could explain the internal appeal/desire for conflict/competition…sometimes, i feel like i’m missing something…

  102. started the wire last night…

    first thought: clark johnson (director) = Homicide: Life on the Street

    great cast, dark stories, attention grabbing cinematography…but, only really told the tale from the cop side of things…rare to get a show that displays both perspectives of the struggle…

    second thought: hey that’s the bad guy from john carter…i thought he was british…had heard simon wanted “authenticity” and only allowed elba cuz he snuck through the interview/auditions…

    you know, you just can’t trust actors…those fuckers can sound and act like they’re from anywhere…

    third thought: wait a minute – is that really michael b jordan (god daughter actually noticed him)…holy shit…dude grew up to be a super hero…sort of – he did get to wear the suit though…i was surprised by how much i liked both of the creed movies…i don’t think i’ve ever read a lot of stories with killmonger in them, just a couple…most of the black panther stories i read were team ups…with cap and other avengers…

    almost finished with the cabinets, then it’s the garage…after that i’m digging through my cd and comic book collections…they’ve been stuck in a closet for years and are in need of some serious love…

    i got a lot of music on cd’s, got some old lp’s boxed up and hiding somewhere…i remember seeing them like a year or so ago…

    what i’d really like though is to figure out a way to display my comics…i got like 30 boxes…they take up a lot of room…

    what was i talking about again…

  103. I’ve read the book that started it all (Simon’s Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets) and it is a magnificent overview of criminal investigation. If you love The Wire, it’s well worth the read. I think 650pp. but every page is teeming with insight about the drug war, community policing and city politics. Every bit as gray-area as the show, and you can see some of the inspiration for plotlines and characters.

  104. dude is a genius wordsmith…

    Ingmarrr, I like your politics, but your film criticism…man

    He’s way too self indulgent for me. Sure, he can write the coolest dialogues, and create the coolest scenes, great style and all, but after Pulp Fiction he added absolutely nothing.

    His politics sucks. I don’t buy it that he makes us aware of violence, on the contrary he makes us enjoy it and laugh while seeing it. Many of the heroes are total assholes, and the movie makes it look ok that they are.

    As for our politics here in Israel:

    * We’re under a lockdown for three weeks.
    * Full curfew tomorrow night so that people don’t go out to be with their families for the holiday (Passover).
    * The police has, at least in practice, full authority to track our movements.
    * No demonstrations allowed with more than 10 people.
    * Police violence is now against Jews too. No more separation between Jews and Arabs on this front.
    * Our minister of health, an Orthodox Jew, is breaking all of his office’s safety rules and up until a few days ago allowed his community to do the same, but would stay on as minister because his party is crucial for the extreme right to form a coalition.
    * Soon we may have a government that allows a prime minister, whose trial for bribery should start next month, to server another 18 months as PM and have a veto power on appointing judges in this country.
    * Our security apparatus (the Mossad) is rumored to attempt stealing medical equipment from other countries.
    * Vicious propaganda against our Arab citizens is ongoing, even though many of them are doctors and nurses in the front line against the corona virus.
    * Etc., etc..

    Our politics is even worse than Tarantino’s!

  105. While we are on the topic of movies and gorillas: King Kong or Godzilla? King Kong, the original, is a better movie. I still rooted for Godzilla in all his battles. I think it was channel 11 that would have monster movie week after school back in the days when one had to get up to change the channel.

  106. When I was in highschool, I remember my sister brought a boyfriend home once and he, my dad, and I watched a TNT broadcast of a game featuring the Phoenix Suns. This was back when the Suns had a gorilla for a mascot that would bounce off a trampoline and dunk the ball during timeouts. The TNT broadcast showed footage of this, and my dad said the mascot was racist. The boyfriend said that my dad was actually the one being racist because he was the one putting the racial connotation on the gorilla. My dad, got mad and kicked the boyfriend out of the house. I never saw the boyfriend again.

    I remember spending a lot of time playing the conversation back in my head, trying to understand who was right and who should rightly be offended. But I had forgotten about it, until Owen and Bob reignited the internal debate :)

  107. ***He’s way too self indulgent for me. Sure, he can write the coolest dialogues, and create the coolest scenes, great style and all, but after Pulp Fiction he added absolutely nothing.

    His politics sucks. I don’t buy it that he makes us aware of violence, on the contrary he makes us enjoy it and laugh while seeing it. Many of the heroes are total assholes, and the movie makes it look ok that they are.***

    Yup, I concur 100%.

    Tarantino has one goal — to be cool. He achieved it early and never let it go.

    And there is definitely a snuff-film element to his ‘coolness’. He’s a talented guy, and I think he is more than just a emulator. I find him original in many ways, I just don’t like the product more often than not. (Though, I do remember liking Jackie Brown quite a bit when I saw it. If I had to rewatch one, it would be that:)

  108. I don’t buy it that he makes us aware of violence, on the contrary he makes us enjoy it and laugh while seeing it.

    I think Inglorious Basterds is the only film of his that has a complex attitude about violence, particularly in violent fantasy, having become by its end not just a cartoonish historical-fiction work but an actual wish-fulfillment alternative history. Most of the rest is for pure shock value with the pretense of holding a mirror up to the audience. My wife actually cried during the torture scene in Reservoir Dogs and never finished it, and I was a bit surprised to hear that Wes Craven also walked out of the theater in revulsion. It’s no surprise that QT was part of Eli Roth’s rise to national prominence, with Roth himself being not much more than a sadomasochistic provocateur, responsible for one of the worst bits of torture porn yet conceived, the Hostel series.

    Haneke’s Funny Games is not an experience I’d like to have again, but its violence has got something to it. I can’t say the same for Kill Bill, Jackie Brown, Django Unchained, Hateful Eight, Reservoir Dogs, Death Proof, or Pulp Fiction. They’re rowdy, masculine celebrations of violence, no doubt.

  109. (Though, I do remember liking Jackie Brown quite a bit when I saw it. If I had to rewatch one, it would be that:)

    Jackie Brown has a solid de Niro performance, too. It’s not in the realm of The Deer Hunter, Godfather II, Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, Mean Streets or Goodfellas, but it’s also not the recycled smart-guy-evading-capture schtick you see in Heat, Casino, Ronin or The Score. Much of his later work feels like de Niro playing de Niro, rather than losing himself in a complex role like Travis Bickle or Vito Corleone.

  110. “Bob, do you think Obama was born in the United States?”

    Jesus you are such a mindless troll.

    But to answer your question a half a dozen ways: Hawaii certified his birth so he has as much proof he was born in America as much as I do that I was born in Manhattan, so yeah.

    But let’s just say he was born in some other country…..IT DOESN’T MATTER AS LONG AS ONE PARENT IS A US CITIZEN. For example:

    Ted Cruz was born in Canada to an American mother an a Cuban citizen. No one seriously disputed he wasn’t “natural born”

    George Romney was born in Mexico to polygamist parents. No one seriously disputed he was “natural Born”

    Barry Goldwater was born in the “Arizona Territory” before statehood and no one disputed he was “natural born.”

    Any more foolish questions? You really don’t have a clue about anything other than statistics in basketball.

  111. “I remember spending a lot of time playing the conversation back in my head, trying to understand who was right and who should rightly be offended. But I had forgotten about it, until Owen and Bob reignited the internal debate :)”

    Yeah…. I guess John Thompson, Dave Gavitt et al were the real racists…. not the guys in gorilla suits and throwing bananas…….

    https://books.google.com/books?id=hifFOQRcjz4C&pg=PA139&lpg=PA139&dq=gorilla+suits+at+ewing+college+games&source=bl&ots=gRzd7HNyc5&sig=ACfU3U18lAr7XcN1-d1xpVpPSvyOd_tZaQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj64IDQm9foAhVOc98KHfp1AhEQ6AEwEXoECAwQMA#v=onepage&q=gorilla%20suits%20at%20ewing%20college%20games&f=false

  112. “Let’s #cancel Owen so #wokebob can have a #safespace without all these #microagressions”

    That’s your remedy…. not mine…. I prefer the light of the noonday sun as the best disinfectant.

  113. Ummmm ok… how about this draft?!

    I’m starting to lean hard toward Okwongu now. I think he has some Siakam potential in him, and at worst should be a Mitch type but with post moves.

    Part of this is that I don’t believe in most of the guards this year, but I also think he’s a serious beast and probably a better overall player than Wiseman.

    Thoughts?

  114. @swift
    Chill Out man. This corona shit ain’t forever.
    Try to re-establish your piece of mind and the rest will come easier.

    @Tarantino
    I Love Tarantino’s work and consider him as the most entertaining film maker ever.
    He definitely is a movie junkie himself and his passion for cinema is everywhere in his movies.
    From paying homage to neglected movie genres and reawakening long forgotten actors to creating some kind of more stylised revival of his major influences
    His violent overdose is an obvious repeated Sam Peckinpah homage that it’s common in most of his movies that end up with most protagonists getting killed.
    Tarantino’s strongest characteristic imo is his sense of rhythm which is definitely based on great editing as someone mentioned.
    Pulp Fiction is his masterpiece and one of my faves ever.

    @Greek Chorus
    Greek Chorus is racistic when you’re from Greece!
    Just kidding/Keep on Greeking in Freak World!

  115. “I, for one, believe that every voluminous long-term poster here reveals their underlying personality in some way.”

    You are certainly entitled to your beliefs. I prefer to judge people by their actual actions not some preconceived notion of what I think them to be because the don’t agree with the inherent wisdom of my positions.
    .
    .
    Wall of text
    ,
    ,
    “You, bobn, have zero class. you are a narcissistic curmudgeon with a huge chip on your shoulder. You justify your deeply-held blatantly racist views with this kind of bullshit false outrage.”

    I got it now…. thanks for clearing things up for me! The guy who retweets a blatant racist tweet “has class” (because he’s on my squad) and the guy who adopts 2 infants at the age of 48 and 50 who both have extremely mixed race (native American/Black/Cuban/Spanish) backgrounds is the classless ethrocentric racist. Really… thanks for clearing that up for me.

    You suffer from epic cluelessness my friend.

  116. I have an uncle who donates tons of money to his alma mater, which is one of the most liberal, progressive and diverse universities in the country. Yet he privately spouts racist propaganda off of conservative news TV and radio (for example, thinks confederate statues are ok because, “that’s their heritage.”) Probably like you, he thinks that his selective benevolent actions speak more loudly than his words and attitudes and make him immune from being characterized as a racist.

    But if attaining the status of official KB laughing stock is your thing, sure, roll with it!

  117. Oh Bob, now I do want to give you a big electronic hug. Because it must be hard to be a teenager living in a Moscow suburb being paid minimum wage in rubles to endlessly troll America’s internet.

    But guys, we should be proud we have one of our very own.I honestly wouldn’t have thought we’d have rated, as great as this site is in my eyes.

  118. Remember myself posting a racistic comment many years ago without even realising it.
    I wanted to express my frustration but found a dumb way to do it.
    Mistakes are humane.
    Owning them shows decency.
    Forgiveness is divine.

  119. I’m getting tired of this conversation. Can’t we argue about something else.

    I think Phil was misunderstood. :-)

    (PS: Damn this was a good batch of Xanax i Just got)

  120. The Honorable Cock Jowles:

    Haneke’s Funny Games is not an experience I’d like to have again, but its violence has got something to it.

    Before going to watch ‘Funny games’ i had read a weekly Athenian magazine that had a review for the movie. I still remember to this day saying: pick a side to feel for
    a.the family b.the 2 youngsters.
    I picked the side of the youngsters when i realized where this plot was going to.
    I was the only one in the cinema smiling sadistically during the film. Everyone else was shocked.

    Funny Games is a one of a kind film showing the power of movie technics on human psychology.

  121. So since Obama was obviously born in America, how do you explain your buddy Donald J harassing him for all those years about his birth certificate? I mean he built a whole brand on that.

    That was some racist bullshit, amirite? Like way, way worse than the Julius Randle tweet, no?

  122. the guy who adopts 2 infants at the age of 48 and 50

    that just sounds painful…even at the ripe old age of 50 something- I only got so many minutes of playing catch in me…

    it can definitely be a challenge being grandparent age, but needing.to do actual parenting…

    hopefully you have a good partner to help carry the load…

  123. I love Pulp Fiction. Tarantino’s elevates what should be a B-Movie. The out of chronological story, the dialogue, the actors all excellent. He’s done the same with other movies too, but not to the same extent.

    However, his movies at some point seem to indulge more in their B-movieness than transcend it. I thought Once Upon… began to step away from it and I enjoyed that.

    Waltz was excellent in Basterds and that led to some amazing scenes.

  124. Trump is more racist than that tweet on a weekly basis. But don’t let that stop you from trolling.

  125. Don’t much like Tarantino myself. I agree with pretty much everything Ingmarrrr wrote about him.

    he can write the coolest dialogues, and create the coolest scenes, great style and all

    None of it hangs together, right? The whole is less than the sum of it’s parts. Some of his work is better than others, but all that I’ve seen (and I’ve skipped several) end up feeling like aimless farces.

    I do really like his humanizing moments, he’s better at that than anyone I can think of off the top. Like Keitel ending his thief explainer in RD by saying “I’m hungry, let’s get a taco.”

  126. As it is natural for some people to not like Tarantino, the Beatles or Pink Floyd it’s also natural for some countries to allow their football leagues to continue (or to start) during the covid pandemic.
    If you can’t live without football there are 3 leagues still active:
    Belarus
    Nicaragua
    Tajikistan

  127. Mr. White :
    Toby? Toby Wong. Toby Wong? Toby Wong. Toby Chung? Fucking Charlie Chan. I got Madonna’s big dick coming out of my left ear, and Toby the Jap… I don’t know what – comin’ out of my right.

    working from home ain’t turning out to be so easy…i feel blessed for the opportunity to work…i’m just having a hard time getting shit done like i would like…although to be honest, i’m having a hard time focusing when i’m at work too…

    things just aren’t that intense at the moment…when queries and requests flood in, there’s barely time to think a stray thought…sadly, i tend to gravitate towards tangents…

    i’m doing more data collection and analysis now…i like it – it’s like doing a puzzle to me…i mean, i don’t really like doing puzzles anymore – i just don’t see the purpose, life’s got enough bullshit already to figure out…

    i like putting numbers and info together for others, also, mostly to satisfy my own curiosity about a thing :)

    i do a lot of unique processes all the time…different countries, different commodities have different rules…i’m heavily dependent on templates, information resources and databases…been a while since i’ve had time to work on those aspects of the job…it’s kind of like doing maintenance…

    tried watching tv while working initially…that didn’t work at all…i just need to do a better job at setting a more stable schedule…i enjoy the work…just busy and distracted though…

    i wonder how folks like al do this all the time…i remember we all had the work from home conversation last year sometime…i was surprised at some of ya’lls feedback…it didn’t seem at the time that a lot of folks enjoyed it as much as i thought they would…

  128. Grocer: None of it hangs together, right? The whole is less than the sum of it’s parts. Some of his work is better than others, but all that I’ve seen (and I’ve skipped several) end up feeling like aimless farces.

    Aimless farces captures it perfectly for me. Beyond the style it all feels empty.

  129. “i wonder how folks like al do this all the time…”

    Its called discipline…. and maybe a little less THC :-)

  130. “that just sounds painful…even at the ripe old age of 50 something- I only got so many minutes of playing catch in me…

    it can definitely be a challenge being grandparent age, but needing.to do actual parenting…

    hopefully you have a good partner to help carry the load…”

    There is a reason evolution set us up for child bearing from out teens to early thirties…. mustering up enough energy is sometimes a challenge but I would recommend it to anyone so inclined net/net. Clearly its the best thing I’ve ever done.

    Of course the notion of paying university tuitions into my mid 70’s is well….daunting.

  131. “I have an uncle who donates tons of money to his alma mater, which is one of the most liberal, progressive and diverse universities in the country. Yet he privately spouts racist propaganda off of conservative news TV and radio (for example, thinks confederate statues are ok because, “that’s their heritage.”) Probably like you, he thinks that his selective benevolent actions speak more loudly than his words and attitudes and make him immune from being characterized as a racist.”

    I am sorry you uncle is a racist who assuages his guilt by donating reams of cash to his alma mater to garner tax breaks and influence.

    But if you think raising 2 kids is a “selective benevolent action” then you just aren’t very smart. I actually feel sorry for you.

  132. “So since Obama was obviously born in America, how do you explain your buddy Donald J harassing him for all those years about his birth certificate? I mean he built a whole brand on that.”

    WOW…. this is some deep logical tarp……

    Yeah…. that dope trolled the MSM into literally giving him billions of dollars of free airtime from which he launched a successful bid to become the literal king of the world for 4-8 years, so yeah…. he as dope.

    And you are so smart! It all makes such sense now…….

  133. So the birth certificate thing was just an elaborate ruse to trick the media and not the racist ramblings of a notorious scumbag ? That’s a pretty big assumption you’re making that’s not based on evidence. Now I’ll do the same about you:

    “It was very cagey of bobneptune to adopt multiracial children in order to inoculate himself from claims of racism.”

    Shit can get really stupid when you do stuff in bad faith, Bob.

  134. Trump is a good marketer, especially of himself, and I guess you could say he is smart at marketing. So I can see what Bob means. He doesn’t care about being truthful in his marketing, so lies like the birther stuff don’t imply that he is dumb. But in many many other ways he is dumb, and he is a totally incompetent commander in chief and people are literally dying because of that.

  135. “Black guys counting my money! I hate it. The only kind of people I want counting my money are short guys that wear yarmulkes every day.”-Donald J. Trump

    Or referring to Netanyahu, in a room full of American Jewish donors, as “your prime minister.”

    Or claiming George Soros is directly funding migrant caravans coming to the US.

    Safe to say Trump has some warped ideas about race, ethnicity, and religion. You know, classic bigot stuff.

  136. You see, it’s not racist if you spend years breathlessly spouting a racist conspiracy theory if you’re doing so in your own political and financial self-interest.

    God, I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: to defend Donald Trump and the GOP you either have to be very stupid, or you have to pretend to be very stupid. There’s not much that can be done if you fall into the former category bob, but the latter just seems exhausting to keep up. Maybe get a different hobby?

  137. Trump is a good marketer, especially of himself, and I guess you could say he is smart at marketing.

    He fell ass-backwards into the presidency. It was a publicity stunt and it just turned out that his voice appealed to millions of uneducated, functionally-illiterate flyover-state voters who wanted an elected politician to verbalize all of the bigoted, racist, sexist filth that they’ve been forcefed by the right-wing media for years. The man is a textbook narcissist–

    March 6: “People are surprised that I understand [COVID-19]. Every one of these doctors say, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability. Maybe I should have done that instead of running for president. But you know what? What they have done is very incredible. I understand that whole world. I love that world. I really do. I love that world.”

    [cue the scene in The Office when Michael Scott, renowned narcissist, tells a former-doctor Indian immigrant that if he too had come from India, he would have been chief of surgery]

    Trump has been so thoroughly exposed by the last three years that I cannot take seriously anyone who still thinks he’s a competent leader of an organization of any kind. His only capacity lies in the spontaneous bigot-smut he peddles to easy marks who haven’t a fucking clue about the complexity and challenge of managing the federal government. And so here we are, looking at passing 2,000 deaths per day.

  138. ““It was very cagey of bobneptune to adopt multiracial children in order to inoculate himself from claims of racism.”

    You didn’t realize what an 8th level thinker you were up against until this moment, did you?

    That a man would have such prescience to adopt kids in 2002 and 2002 just to inoculate himself form claims of racism from a highly triggered Greek Chorus…. what a towering intellect……

  139. Why are quoting me and then arguing about something I didn’t say? The only sentence that addresses my point at all is the first one, where you imply it was just luck he won the presidency. I don’t agree with that. He has some campaigning skill and he had political positions that other candidates didn’t. You seem to assume that all of his voters were uneducated and illiterate, but that is simply not true. I know people who voted for him who are far from that and from the size of the vote there were many like that. You complain about people’s political leanings by implying they are uneducated and illiterate, I.e. by insulting them. How would you like it if I treated you that way?

  140. Ingmarrr, I said I like YOUR politics, not those of your country! (Though to be fair, the divide seems to be similar to that in the US, always hovering around 50/50 to 60/40 at any given time.)

    As for Tarantino,

    Aimless farces captures it perfectly for me. Beyond the style it all feels empty.

    I hear you; my point was more that he is good rather than you have to like his work. He’s a Revisionist: what he does is to dive into a particular genre, twist it around to his own ends, and make something personal from it. “His own ends” are, for me, often too violent – I don’t like Kill Bill 1 much because of that (whereas 2 is pretty great). A lot of his movies are tough to watch in places because of that. But he DOES have a point of view, a voice, and that voice consists of brilliant wordplay, great visual framing, and excellent use of dramatic tension (see: opening scene of Basterds). He is not a hack. Great artists synthesize something new out of the old, like Beethoven, and Tarantino is not a great artist – but he is a great craftsman, and not to acknowledge that seems short-sighted.

    Experts and critics often come into these things with defined standards of what “good” or “great” is when what’s going on out there among real people is a kind of bell curve of subjective tastes.

    Man, you really hate expertise, don’t you? Unless it’s your own, acquired from careful study of horses in the rain. Sorry, Al, the views of “real people” are much more interesting than yours!

  141. I’m saying that he’s not “good” at marketing. I’m saying that he just happened to be exactly the kind of narcissistic asshole that appeals to large swath of voters that were looking for the narcissistic asshole to rule them all, which is exactly what they got.

    It wasn’t all luck, but it certainly wasn’t Trump’s doing. It was the doing of the massive right-wing apparatus that has been pumping disinformation into our politics for a generation. The Kochs and Mercers (et al.) didn’t necessarily want Trump, but they certainly set the stage with their incredible (like, astonishing) consortium that bred intellectuals, jurists, politicians and voters to believe that their extreme-right views were not only traditionally-American views, but totally normal and not at all extreme. You’re looking at the cart and calling it the wagon, in my view. You can try Kochland by Christopher Leonard or Dark Money by Jane Meyer if you’re curious about what that apparatus looks like. Both fascinating, and terrifying, reads.

    I know people who voted for him who are far from that and from the size of the vote there were many like that.

    Of course there were suburban educated voters who held their nose and picked Trump over Hillary. There’s a lot to be said about how terrible a candidate (from an optics/reputation perspective, not political capacity) Hillary was, but the fact remains that Trump had already been exposed as a failed businessman with corrupt dealings and bigoted views. And still, those people chose him. I condemn them for it, especially as we hurdle toward a 9/11-sized death toll per day. Those people deserve scorn.

    Feel free to imply that I’m uneducated and illiterate, though, especially fitting while I take a break from reading Steve Coll’s massive history of ExxonMobil’s global operations long enough to make more coffee.

  142. There is no right way.

    The thing that really irks me about BS like that from Strat is that it’s objectively true that some people do in fact know fucking more than you do about their field! Because they have to make money doing it! It’s in fact your OWN ARGUMENT ABOUT YOUR OWN EXPERTISE! But when it applies to someone else, you’re like Trump – “I can do that better than they can, I’m very talented, I actually have been told I should be a [biochemical scientists/art critic/horse racing bettor].”

    There is in fact a “right way,” or at least “right” ingredients, and those who make it their life’s work and who have adequate ability and insight can recognize it most of the time. Any professional such as Al could tell you precisely why Tarantino is good and not a hack. It doesn’t mean you have to like him! But saying that he isn’t good, or the critics are wrong in their assessment of a work’s strengths and weaknesses because it doesn’t jibe with your ignorant ass’s POV, or that they are all somehow mindlessly lining up in some dark state conspiracy is just ludicrous.

    Have you ever met a critic? Who is more fucking opinionated than a critic?? They WANT to have a view that not everyone else has – it’s just hard, because most of the time “Castle” really is shit TV and “The Wire” really isn’t.

  143. Maybe I didn’t make it clear enough in the first post, but I don’t actually think you had ulterior motives adopting those kids. It was incredibly generous of you to do that. Makes me think better of you as a person.

    I was trying to mock your idea that Trump’s racist birther BS was part of some 8 year master plan to win the presidency while trolling the media. I don’t buy that when the guy has been chirping the same racist BS his entire adult life (ex: the quote I posted about blacks + Jewish people counting money is from 30 years ago).

    A bunch of voters hungered for an angry bigot after Obama’s presidency. He fell into this shit by just being who he always was.

  144. rama got no use for your spurv plinth: Tarantino is not a great artist – but he is a great craftsman, and not to acknowledge that seems short-sighted

    I agree that he’s a great craftsman, and yes, it would be silly not to acknowledge it. It’s just that I feel emptiness coming from somewhere in there, and I’m unable to connect to his movies anymore.

    Oh boy, our politics… I know you don’t like my country’s politics. It’s becoming more and more difficult to see us as a democracy. In the U.S. it seems like the democratic institutions are still functioning – the house, the courts – whereas here the right is viciously attacking the courts, and tried to sabotage the parliament. We’re handing by a thread.

  145. I hear you; my point was more that he is good rather than you have to like his work. He’s a Revisionist: what he does is to dive into a particular genre, twist it around to his own ends, and make something personal from it. “His own ends” are, for me, often too violent – I don’t like Kill Bill 1 much because of that (whereas 2 is pretty great). A lot of his movies are tough to watch in places because of that. But he DOES have a point of view, a voice, and that voice consists of brilliant wordplay, great visual framing, and excellent use of dramatic tension (see: opening scene of Basterds). He is not a hack. Great artists synthesize something new out of the old, like Beethoven, and Tarantino is not a great artist – but he is a great craftsman, and not to acknowledge that seems short-sighted.

    I co-sign this entirely. Some people really don’t like pastiche, and those people tend not to like QT all that much. If you see Jackie Brown and see nothing but romanticized, nostalgic homage (save maybe the nonlinear money-drop scene), I don’t think you’re wrong. It’s just a matter of taste, IMO.

    And yeah, Basterds has several scenes of exquisite dramatic tension. The German bar scene? C’mon!

    I agree that he’s a great craftsman, and yes, it would be silly not to acknowledge it. It’s just that I feel emptiness coming from somewhere in there, and I’m unable to connect to his movies anymore.

    Yes, they are largely empty! He has the worldview of a violent adolescent, but with the vocabulary of a culturally-literate person.

    You’re not going to get the violent thoughtfulness of, say, the Coen brothers in No Country for Old Men. But you will get style and storytelling, even if those stories have little if any moral or philosophical value.

  146. Last post: the interesting thing to me is that these seemingly disparate threads within this thread are actually dancing around the same issues. And even more fascinating is that those issues are in fact core to the blog itself: what is the value of expertise? The majority of us on here feel it is very valuable, and we want better statistics in order to become more expert in our assessments of the game of basketball. (Or, like me, we want to become better at interpreting existing statistics so we can better predict success.) And then there are those who appeal to authority, even when that authority is shown to be wrong much more than right, and those who say it’s their own authority that matters, even when simultaneously acknowledging they don’t have the time to study as deeply as they’d need to to really know.

    What success is enjoyed by the different groups, I wonder, those who tout Phil “he’s forgotten more than you’ll ever know” Jackson, those who cite the collective wisdom of NBA GMs, those who say we should trade down for two picks and take Brandon Clarke? If only there were a way to quantify such things, like with wins and losses or something…

  147. Shit, I fucked that up:

    You’re looking at the cart and calling it the horse.

  148. ***You’re not going to get the violent thoughtfulness of, say, the Coen brothers in No Country for Old Men.***

    No Country for Old Men! Now THAT’S a good fucking movie.

  149. Thank God, Bernies out finally. Now we can run a geriatric man who forgets what he’s saying and says bad shit, against the geriatric man who says bad shit on purpose.

  150. Thank God, Bernies out finally. Now we can run a geriatric man who forgets what he’s saying and says bad shit, against the geriatric man who says bad shit on purpose.

    Do you think Biden’s list of appointees will look anything like this? Stop worrying about Biden himself and worry about the scores of competent people who will be carrying out the duties of the executive branch. Biden may not be anyone’s first choice but we cannot do another four years of this:

    https://www.wikiwand.com/en/List_of_Trump_administration_dismissals_and_resignations

  151. Oh, hey, I just thought of something else I didn’t like all that much. Infinite Jest. (Can I still be part of the Greek Chorus, or has my membership been officially terminated?)

  152. The system sucks if it spews out two choices- Biden and Trump. I disagree with you on a lot of politics, because I honestly hate liberal thinking these days, and republicans suck And we know why.

    I actually liked Bloomberg, Kasich, and Tulsi. Moderates. No green new deal, no stupid religious shit, no phoniness, no Iran deals, no socialized medicine (govt run things suck, I’ve been a doc at a VA – I know) blah blah blah

  153. Tarantino excels at film language, he is a “pure cinema” director who likes to tell stories that can only be told through the media of film. If you read his scripts it’s all on the page, all the camera moves and editing decisions. His movies are really movies about movies. He wears his influences on his sleeve but he also has his own voice.

    Hitchcock’s movies are similar, they’re not really “about” anything, they’re really just about the thrills you can give people by exploiting the natural power of cinematic techniques.

  154. Oh, hey, I just thought of something else I didn’t like all that much. Infinite Jest. (Can I still be part of the Greek Chorus, or has my membership been officially terminated?)

    Never tried it, but I hate Franzen. Acknowledge the craft and intelligence, but the solipsism destroys any potential enjoyment for me.

    Hitchcock’s movies are similar, they’re not really “about” anything, they’re really just about the thrills you can give people by exploiting the natural power of cinematic techniques.

    Great call. I love Hitch, but his movies are similar in panache and emptiness to Tarantino. But fun (mostly), and generally filled with great performances. And he loves and understands women more than Tarantino does, I think.

  155. Franzen and Wallace are very different, IMO. I’m not a fan of the former, but Infinite Jest is in the very top tier of fiction I’ve read.

  156. The Honorable Cock Jowles: He has the worldview of a violent adolescent, but with the vocabulary of a culturally-literate person.

    Right. Probably that’s why his blood leaves me cold. Sure, it’s a mirror of sorts, but I got it on the 2nd time I watched Pulp Fiction. Then it’s the same over and over. Boring.

    I think Hitchcock is different. While Tarantino stays on the surface – that’s his thing – Hitchcock has real fucked-upness about him. I’m genuinely disturbed by some of his stuff. The girlfriend and I watched Vertigo recently. It’s dated, but it still made me feel uneasy.

  157. Vertigo is his best, IMO. There’s a lot going on under the surface, as opposed to, say, The Birds, which is a masterpiece in horror but not much more than that.

  158. Personally, I never saw the “birther issue” as widespread racism (maybe a little from some people).

    I think a lot of people just hated Obama’s politics and wanted to destroy him.

    If you hate a guy’s politics and you are the kind of person willing to lie, spin, exaggerate etc.. to destroy your opposition (kind of like the entire media and both parties do to each other these days), that does not necessarily make you a racist even if the other guy has a different skin color.

    It’s possible the motivation is race, but it’s possible it’s just politics. But to be clear, if you are willing to stoop that low for political gain, it makes you a scumbag of another sort.

    IMO, one problem is that some people’s default position is to accuse others of racism. It’s almost sad that some people do that. A lot of innocent people make mistakes or have a temporary lapse in judgement and then get destroyed for no good reason. That should be the lesson of Owen’s momentary lapse. Very bright and very good people make mistakes too.

  159. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Vertigo is his best, IMO. There’s a lot going on under the surface, as opposed to, say, The Birds, which is a masterpiece in horror but not much more than that.

    I was lucky enough to see Vertigo in 70mm at the Castro Theater. A wonderful film indeed!

  160. ***Vertigo is his best, IMO***

    Vertigo is one of my all time favorites!

    (Am I back in the club?)

  161. ***I was lucky enough to see Vertigo in 70mm at the Castro Theater. A wonderful film indeed!***

    I saw the 70mm print at the Zeigfeld and it was the greatest film-going experience of my life.

  162. Bob tries to make the claim that liberals are hypocrites and the real racists because Owen posts a questionable tweet which he immediately apologizes for. But bob also doesn’t find Trump’s bald faced racist birther nonsense to be offensive, in fact he thinks it shows how clever Trump is. Which really makes you conclude that bob’s performative selective outrage about Owen’s tweet is really a load of bullshit.

    He should slink away in shame after being demolished on this thread and being exposed for the lightweight thinker he really is. But in his mind he has Owned Teh Libs yet again.

    Bob lacks intellectual consistency. Don’t be like bob.

  163. “I was trying to mock your idea that Trump’s racist birther BS was part of some 8 year master plan to win the presidency while trolling the media.”

    In the early day 2011-2 Trump was likely saying controversial shit to get his mug on television… as PT Barnum famously said, “I don’t care what they write about me as long as they spell my name right!”

    Fast forward to the run up to the campaign and Trump knows this is absolute catnip to the media and it has zero cost politically.

  164. “Bob tries to make the claim that liberals are hypocrites and the real racists because Owen posts a questionable tweet which he immediately apologizes for.”

    I certainly believe many libs are hypocrites but I don’t think any group has a monopoly on racism.

    Owen didn’t post a “questionable” tweet…. he posted a blatantly racist tweet. I never stated nor implied he was a racist. I don’t know the man from Adam. I’m not as smart as all you Sybils that can see into people’s minds and souls. I do believe it was amazingly tone deaf.

    I know if I had posted that there would have been unanimous calls for instaban. But a teammate posts that….. its OK. The Governor of Va nances around in blackface…. fine! PM Trudeau prances around as a 29 yr old in blackface….. nothing to see here. The selective outrage is unbelievable. But not unexpected.

  165. “He fell ass-backwards into the presidency. It was a publicity stunt and it just turned out that his voice appealed to millions of uneducated, functionally-illiterate flyover-state voters who wanted an elected politician to verbalize all of the bigoted, racist, sexist filth that they’ve been forcefed by the right-wing media for years. ”

    A short list of swing state counties(below) where voters voted for Obama TWICE and then switched to Trump. Jowles conclusion…. something something THEY ARE ALL IGNORANT RACISTS! Funny how they were really smart when the voted for Obama twice. But they somehow became racists in 2016…..

    Or….. many of them got tired of being screwed by the globalists and voted another way? Maybe Hildog was an awful candidate who had zero chance of mobilizing the black vote as Obama did? Maybe calling 47% of the electorate deplorables wasn’t a really smart thing even if you believed it?

    Read em and weep statboy:

    https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_Counties_in_Wisconsin

    https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_Counties_in_Michigan

    https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_Counties_in_Ohio

    https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_Counties_in_Iowa

    https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_Counties:_The_counties_that_voted_Obama-Obama-Trump_from_2008-2016

  166. In the early day 2011-2 Trump was likely saying controversial shit to get his mug on television… as PT Barnum famously said, “I don’t care what they write about me as long as they spell my name right!”

    And when he was sued in 1973 by the Justice Department for refusing to rent his apartments to minorities that was just to get his name in the papers.

    Or in 1991 when he said “I think that the guy is lazy. And it’s probably not his fault, because laziness is a trait in blacks. It really is, I believe that. It’s not anything they can control” he was just trying to be a modern P.T. Barnum.

    Or when the Trump Plaza had to pay a $200,000 fine (1992) for transferring black and women dealers off tables to accommodate a big-time gambler’s prejudices that was him exposing the fake news media for what they really are.

    His history of racism is undeniable. Quit showing yer ass, bob.

  167. i wonder how folks like al do this all the time…i remember we all had the work from home conversation last year sometime…i was surprised at some of ya’lls feedback…it didn’t seem at the time that a lot of folks enjoyed it as much as i thought they would…

    I feel you, geo. This is the first time I’ve ever worked from home before. There are many things I love about it (I converted my dining area into a great working space), and I feel like I’m working all day, but when I look back at what I’ve accomplished it’s always a lot less than it should be. Like, maybe I made 4 calls in the afternoon but I should have made 20. There’s just something about the comfort level here that relaxes me. I think part of what motivates me to work so efficiently in the office is that I want to leave! Now I gotta figure out how to feel that every day.

    One of my new behavioral habits has been to deny myself certain pleasures (like logging into KB) until I’ve gotten enough things done. Fortunately for anyone who hates reading my posts, I’ve been sluggish this week!

    On the plus side, I eat much better…I’ve been able to maintain a crazy strict diet now that I can prepare all my food. I’ve given up alcohol (43 days now, which I only know bc I gave it up for Lent… something I’ve tried to do for 6 years in a row but I will finally accomplish now!). And my coffee is so much better! (I get beans from Porto Rico on St Mark’s and use a Bialetti.)

    I still haven’t taken all the mushrooms I have in my drawer. That’s on my to do list, but not gonna lie… part of me is afraid of tripping in NYC in the middle of a pandemic! If I could trust myself to not go outside….

  168. Apropos of nothing…. there’s been a strong sentiment in my circle about being mindful of what we return to. I gotta be honest, I don’t know if the Knicks are gonna make the cut. Have you ever been in a bad relationship that you couldn’t get out of? You know what always does the trick? Getting used to not talking to each other. And I’m getting used to no Knicks.

  169. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Vertigo is his best, IMO. There’s a lot going on under the surface, as opposed to, say, The Birds, which is a masterpiece in horror but not much more than that.

    I watched Rear Window on Sunday evening. Not sure there is a more apt movie for being locked down in New York City right now.

  170. Fast forward to the run up to the campaign and Trump knows this is absolute catnip to the media and it has zero cost politically.

    easy mark

  171. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Vertigo is his best, IMO. There’s a lot going on under the surface, as opposed to, say, The Birds, which is a masterpiece in horror but not much more than that.

    I also watched Strangers on a Train recently. The hero is so creepy.

    But even he isn’t Trump territory creepy. Anyone else heartbroken about Bernie leaving the race? Great, let’s continue to screw up millions of people and leave them without health insurance.

  172. I’m happy Bernie left the race. I’m not happy that he still wants to be on the ballots and get votes so he can influence the convention. Some people are likely to get sick and die because they go vote. And because his ego is so big he thinks no one else can possibly be right and he wants as many delegate votes as possible.

  173. I’m not searching for condolences or sympathy or anything, but I just lost a cousin to the virus. It becomes more real when people you know start dying.

    He was 67 or 68 (not sure) He was an ex fireman that may have had some lung damage that contributed to the severity of his condition. He was sick for few weeks. It temporarily looked like he was rallying back, but then things went south again and he passed away. His wife also has it, but at last report she was home in decent condition.

    His younger brother also has it and is in the hospital, but at least report not in ICU. His wife also has it.

    Neither of brothers had contact with each other and neither had any idea how or where they could have gotten it. The fireman was retired and didn’t leave the house much at all except for a dental appointment a few days prior to coming down with symptoms.

  174. I know if I had posted that there would have been unanimous calls for instaban. But a teammate posts that….. its OK.

    You, a self-aggrandizing contrarian asshole with a long record of tone-deaf shitposting, would have deserved it. Owen, with his decade-plus previously spotless record, did not. If Owen is on this blog for 100 more years, I doubt he would post anything like that ever again. And if I thought it was OK, I wouldn’t have flagged it, would I?

  175. Sorry strat. I have a bit of a toothache and am holding out until this blows over.

    Just finished season 4 of The Wire. I’m beaten up.

  176. ***Tarantino excels at film language, he is a “pure cinema” director who likes to tell stories that can only be told through the media of film. If you read his scripts it’s all on the page, all the camera moves and editing decisions….Hitchcock’s movies are similar, they’re not really “about” anything, they’re really just about the thrills you can give people by exploiting the natural power of cinematic techniques.***

    I agree with this about Tarantino, but I disagree with the conclusion about Hitchcock. In the 1950s Hitchcock was speaking a vastly different “language” than Tarantino. He couldn’t deal outright with issues of sexuality (let alone homosexuality), gender, rape, incest, etc… so he created an implicit language of entendres and visual cues to go around the censors rattan cater to them.

    Vertigo, Rope, Rear Window, Psycho, North by Northwest — these are movies with unbelievable depth.

  177. A careful focused watching of “The Birds” and some reading on the internet can reveal the various dimensions of this film.
    For me his best one.

    Sorry about your loss Strat.

  178. North By Northwest doesn’t have much depth. It’s a standard MacGuffin movie that was built around three or four set pieces. All of the stuff connecting the set pieces was of secondary importance.

    It’s a very well executed and entertaining movie but it’s not a deep movie. They’re all just trying to get the thing with the “government secrets” in it.

  179. Fred Klein, originally the face of Knicks fandom passed from Covid-19. For years, he sat on the baseline at the old and new Gardens. He was a partner in Carnegie Deli, and as I had a few friends in the restaurant business, I got to meet him a few times. A very funny and down to earth man.
    Edit: sorry for your loss Strat.

  180. I’m happy Bernie left the race. I’m not happy that he still wants to be on the ballots and get votes so he can influence the convention. Some people are likely to get sick and die because they go vote. And because his ego is so big he thinks no one else can possibly be right and he wants as many delegate votes as possible.

    This isn’t accurate at all. The primaries aren’t just Biden vs. Bernie. There’s a bunch of local state primaries that would still need to be decided even if Bernie got his name off the ballot. BTW, Sanders told Wisconsin voters not to risk their health to vote in the primary. He has absolutely nothing to do with people who get sick from voting.

    Get mad about something else.

  181. He couldn’t deal outright with issues of sexuality (let alone homosexuality), gender, rape, incest, etc… so he created an implicit language of entendres and visual cues to go around the censors rattan cater to them.

    It’s amazing how the whitewashing of American culture through popular media has inspired nostalgia for that era as a time of peace and simplicity.

  182. And if I thought it was OK, I wouldn’t have flagged it, would I?

    Heck, I didn’t even look at the link until you reacted negatively to it.

  183. I’m surprised no one mentioned Notorious. our school did a couple of film study units on it via Lincoln Center Education.

  184. Sorry about your loss, Strat. My brother and some of the other guys from his firehouse got tested on their own last week (they’re stationed in Brooklyn, so they deal with that Hasidic Jewish community there that refuses to do social distancing). The others are all negative, while my brother doesn’t have results yet.

  185. Just finished season 4 of The Wire. I’m beaten up.

    That must have really hit you right in the feels. I can only imagine.

  186. My Top 3 Hitchcock
    Birds
    Vertigo
    Rebecca

    Gotta rewatch Rear Window, Notorious and North by Northwest tho….Last time watching them was back in the Ewing era

  187. I seem to recall a world leader from the past who consolidated his power by engaging in race-baiting, xenophobic rhetoric behind a platform of “Make ______ great again!”, who sought to punish all political enemies, including those in his own party, who continually referred to the free press as “The Enemy of the People” and who said publicly that there were “very good people” in an assembly of white nationalists carrying torches and chanting threatening anti-Semitic slogans.

    At least Trump is nothing like that guy…

  188. You know Brian, the education theme really did hit home, but there is so much more than that.

  189. You know Brian, the education theme really did hit home, but there is so much more than that.

    It’s an amazing piece of work. It’s so good that Season 5 can’t help but be a bit disappointing to you, even though it’s a fine season, too.

  190. reference quentin and alfred – just in case it is not abundantly clear – cinema is not necessarily intended to give you the meaning of life…

    be in the moment…enjoy, or not…

    just had a meeting…i kind of have a habit getting in to things…debating with myself on whether to add a cam…

    i want in on that…but, only if i can get the camera to reveal my real appearance

    i swear this is me so much…i amy have a more recent pic, i’ll have to look…

  191. ***North By Northwest doesn’t have much depth.***

    It has a sexual depth that you may not be giving it credit for (both hetero and homo).

  192. Cinema is considered a visual art so i guess you could say that QT and AH are probably capable to be called artists.

  193. Apologies for bringing up basketball, but for those not following it, The Ringer has a series of redraft articles, one per year (they’re on 2001) that include best move in the draft, worst move, and Knicksiest move. It’s a horrible and sort of funny (mostly horrible) trip down memory lane. Here’s what they have for 2001.

    How the Knicks Screwed Up

    The Knicks didn’t have a first-round pick in 2001—they’d traded their own first-rounder (that became no. 18, Jason Collins) in the four-team Patrick Ewing trade the previous year, then traded a different first-rounder they acquired (that became no. 27, Jamaal Tinsley) to the Grizzlies for Othella Harrington.

    New York had two second-round picks, however, which could have been valuable given the 2001 draft’s depth. The Knicks picked 39th and 43rd, and Mehmet Okur went 38th, while future NBA mainstays Earl Watson and Bobby Simmons went 40th and 42nd, respectively.

    Instead, the Knicks used their two picks on Arizona forward Michael Wright and Kansas center Eric Chenowith. They combined for zero career NBA games. Put another way: Only three of the top 45 players picked in the 2001 draft didn’t end up playing in the NBA. Two of those three were selected by the Knicks.

  194. For me Michael Jordan, Julius Erving and Dominique Wilkins to name just a few obvious ones are visual artists too.
    Their game has grace, symmetry, body control and fantasy that id prefer to watch their moves instead of any choreographed ballet.

  195. I still haven’t taken all the mushrooms I have in my drawer. That’s on my to do list, but not gonna lie… part of me is afraid of tripping in NYC in the middle of a pandemic! If I could trust myself to not go outside….

    oh my god…do it, and – go outside, hopefully the weather there permits such brash and reckless action…make it a journey to somewhere interesting…

    I converted my dining area into a great working space

    as i slowly continue going through my home and re-organizing – i think to myself: what would hubie dooby doo…

    don’t be alarmed if one day you hear a stray knock at your door, and it’s me coming to enjoy – your space :)

  196. I’m a huge fan of Hitchcock’s, I love his work and I’ve read a bunch of books about him. I guess the point I’m making about him is that his process and his ideals as a filmmaker were similar to Tarantino’s. They have difference in personal styles, and they worked in very different eras, but I don’t really buy the idea that Hitchcock’s films are loaded with deep meaning while Tarantino’s are not. I’m not even comparing them in terms of quality– Hitchcock had a high batting average despite making a film per year for like 50 years or whatever. Hitch was the greater director.

    I mean even Rear Window, that is a movie that is exquisite suspense, it’s a tour de force of film language. But it’s not really much more than that. It’s a 10/10 movie, a true classic, a timeless film. But it’s all about “pure cinema,” it is 100% a story that you could not possibly tell in any other medium. Sure, some of his films have sly subtexts and all of that, but really Hitch was looking to thrill and titillate. He was great at it.

  197. Not all movies are poetic, existential, dystopian, humanitarian or psychological.

  198. The dunk contest’s choreography is why I simply don’t watch it. I much prefer the spontaneity of a contested putback dunk.

  199. The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    The dunk contest’s choreography is why I simply don’t watch it. I much prefer the spontaneity of a contested putback dunk.

    Unfortunately the dunk contest suffers from “Almost everything possible has been done before” Syndrome which makes it predictable and therefore not exciting anymore.

  200. don’t be alarmed if one day you hear a stray knock at your door, and it’s me coming to enjoy – your space :)

    I’ll save some shrooms for ya.

  201. Sorry for your loss Strat.

    I again am sorry I offended anyone but I do think “blatantly racist” is a little strong when neither I, the original tweeter, or any of the commenters on the post had any intention of demeaning Julius Randle as an African-American.

    Really, I never intended a derogation of anything other than his ballhandling and it honestly never occurred to me that someone would see that video and find any negative racial stereotype being ascribed to Julius (which would be objectionable to gorillas too btw.) The basis of comparison, a spin move, is recognizably human, and the comparison seemed to me to be of the gorilla to Julius.

    Not to say I think this is a blue dress/gold dress thing. Substitute a dog chasing his tail and no one cares. Clearly there are some heavy historical associations in play which of course I am and was aware of but not really considering. Having processed it I can certainly see that it was in poor taste and it’s the kind of thing that should be avoided. But I think for racism to be “blatant,” it has to have malicious intent behind it and it has to be overt. This was not that.

    I did speak with the gorilla and also made amends to him as part of the apology tour. He was PISSED at me. Not for being speciest, which I also definitely was, but for comparing him to a New York Knick. Apparently that cut him pretty deep.

  202. Sorry to hear Strat, that’s a difficult situation especially because so many family members are still sick. Hoping the rest of them pull through. Glad you felt comfortable sharing with us

  203. The truth is that Randle’s spins tortured Knicks fans all season long to the point that it was tempting to satirize it with anything spinning that exists from the big bang till this moment.
    It just needed some caution to avoid a few ones that could express also negative association.

  204. Brian Cronin: It’s an amazing piece of work. It’s so good that Season 5 can’t help but be a bit disappointing to you, even though it’s a fine season, too.

    I guess it’s that way with most shows, the last season is rarely the best…it might be better for me because one of my great friends from college was a longtime reporter from the Sun, recently retired.

  205. Z-man:
    I seem to recall a world leader from the past who consolidated his power by engaging in race-baiting, xenophobic rhetoric behind a platform of “Make ______great again!”, who sought to punish all political enemies, including those in his own party, who continually referred to the free press as “The Enemy of the People” and who said publicly that there were “very good people” in an assembly of white nationalists carrying torches and chanting threatening anti-Semitic slogans.

    At least Trump is nothing like that guy…

    And I’m sure that guy had brilliant citizens like bobn that disparaged those not on board with…”He’s a far better alternative than the “corrupt” folks he replaced”…”Look at all the good he’s done! Look at the economy!” “You naysayers are all in the same liberal Greek Chorus …”

  206. I’m not searching for condolences or sympathy or anything, but I just lost a cousin to the virus. It becomes more real when people you know start dying.

    Sorry for your loss Strat. Hope you and your family are doing well and the whole KB community are keeping safe.

  207. There’s some great stuff inside the newsroom and out. Unfortunately it’s… well, you’ll see. It takes a bit of a turn.

  208. The existing storylines are all still very compelling in season 5. The new storylines are kind of duds.

    The last two episodes are incredible, and the finale is maybe the most satisfying finale in TV history.

  209. I do believe it was amazingly tone deaf.

    I know if I had posted that there would have been unanimous calls for instaban.

    I think this is a fair comment. Of course, the difference is how each person has posted over the last decade or so. I can’t remember a single spiteful thing Owen has posted, while your posts, Bob, are often spiteful and condescending. You seem to like playing the role of contrarian, but usually lack any data behind your position – so it’s just opinion, and nasty opinion at that. But you’re right that people would have responded differently to you. On the other hand, I don’t believe a single person here has ever suggested you be banned in the past.

    As for Hitch, I love much of his work, but disagree that he’s anything but a sensationalist. There isn’t a lot of depth there. I could cite a dozen brilliant moments from his films, but not one relates to a deep and rich understanding of human nature…even in Vertigo, probably his most psychologically nuanced work. To be fair, our understanding of human behavior was still pretty nascent – I mean, it’s nascent even now, but that was more toward the beginning of the popularization of Freud and Jung et al.

  210. I again am sorry I offended anyone but I do think “blatantly racist” is a little strong when neither I, the original tweeter, or any of the commenters on the post had any intention of demeaning Julius Randle as an African-American.

    There was obviously absolutely nothing racist about what you did. In fact, it was the opposite of racist. At no point in the entire process did Julius Randle’s race even enter your mind. You just saw something spinning out of control and it reminded you of a basketball player who spins out of control. The banana bit was obvious, too. What else would a gorilla be likely to hold that would relate to a basketball?

    Gorillas are on the “that’s racist” bingo card, though, and there are always people who want to publicly check off a box on their own scorecard to call attention to how righteous they are. Bob was generally an ass throughout this whole exchange while trying to make his point, but I did find this comment of his to be one of the better ones in the discussion:

    I am sorry you uncle is a racist who assuages his guilt by donating reams of cash to his alma mater to garner tax breaks and influence.

    It kinda gets at the bullshit of calling out things like your tweet. What, exactly, does being the person who says “hey, that tweet you shared was racist” accomplish? African Americans don’t have less of a burden now that you’ve been put in your place. It’s a pointless, self-aggrandizing, mean-spirited action. And it’s usually committed by people who like to call attention to themselves and assuage their own guilt.

  211. The existing storylines are all still very compelling in season 5. The new storylines are kind of duds.

    Simon really missed his mark with the new storyline. When he explained it after the season, it made sense. He was trying to say: “these are the people who are supposed to be talking about everything you saw in seasons 1, 2, 3, and 4 so that we are aware of it and it can change; but look what they’re doing instead.”

    When I heard him say that in an interview, I was like “oh”. But I’ve rewatched season 5 a couple times and I can’t say that point really comes across in the text. It honestly seemed more like he was settling old grudges with people he used to work with.

  212. “I again am sorry I offended anyone but I do think “blatantly racist” is a little strong when neither I, the original tweeter, or any of the commenters on the post had any intention of demeaning Julius Randle as an African-American.”

    You can certainly speak for yourself, but unless you know the OP personally, I don’t see how you can vouch for him.

    With plethora the spinning gif’s possible (the Tasmanian Devil cartoon, Linda Blair’s head in the Exorcist, a gyroscope, etc) the original tweeter just happened to coincidentally pick the most abhorrent and often used trope of the 19th and 20th centuries a hulking black man being compared to an ape or a gorilla.

    Quite a coincidence for the original tweeter, don’t you think? Ockham’s Razor something , something.

    “The basis of comparison, a spin move, is recognizably human, and the comparison seemed to me to be of the gorilla to Julius.”

    Jesus… that is precisely my point. Did you read what you just wrote? I cannot think of any circumstance where the comparison of a spinning out of control gorilla to a black man is remotely acceptable when there are literally a million other spinning anthropomorphic objects that could have been chosen.

    Why don’t you re-tweet that to Patrick Ewing and John Thompson and ask their opinions? I’m guessing they will have extreme difficulty finding its obvious (to some) humor. I’m just guessing….

    I mean I cannot believe this needs to be pointed out in the 21st century…. its not really good form to compare black people to gorillas and someone please explain to me where I am off base here.

  213. “The Wire” is constantly talked about on this blog but no one talks about “The Deuce!”

    “The Deuce” is pretty great. David Simon knew exactly how to tell that story in 3 seasons, so there’s not a single wasted episode and it really tells the story of NYC so well.

    I’m also really enjoying his new show “The Plot Against America.”

  214. the pitchfork, it does nothing

    You know what’s crazy? We watched the first 4 or 5 episodes of The Deuce and ghosted it. It was good! And still, we couldn’t be bothered to continue. Maybe we should pick that one back up now that we’ve finished Succession and Tiger King.

  215. someone please explain to me where I am off base here.

    Because you’re putting on a performance. Nobody here buys it.

  216. I buy it. People are often more complicated than the buckets people want to classify them with.

  217. Bob watches Fox News all day but loses his shit when someone with no history of offensiveness posts a tone-deaf meme, is notified of its tone-deafness, apologizes, and has his apology accepted. The irony is delicious.

  218. I don’t buy it.

    “I am offended by the tweet”
    “There’s nothing wrong with birtherism”

    The selective outrage is pretty goddamn obvious.
    He spends most of his time here railing against “wokeness” like a true Fox News consuming dittohead, but then when somebody from the other team posts a questionable tweet he’s Wokey McWoke, the college freshman home for Thanksgiving who just took his Sociology 101 midterm.

    He gets a boner when he gets to point out librul hypocrisy, that’s all this is about.

  219. I wish we could move on from this because both the hypocrisy and innocence in this case are obvious.

    When Roseanne Barr posted something like this she lost her show, lost millions of dollars, had her career destroyed, and probably needed anti depressants and therapy for a year. That happened because she was a Trump supporter and not because she didn’t apologize or because she had a history of racism. She had a history of being in comedy, occasionally telling off color jokes, being progressive on many social issues, and not being the sharpest knife in the draw.

    There was no way she was trying to be offensive and racist. She’s not that dumb. She had a momentary blind spot.

    The lesson to be learned is to try to understand the person that said or did something, figure out their motive, and react accordingly.

    It’s not to decide whether he or she is one of us and react accordingly.

  220. “Muslim brotherhood & planet of the apes had a baby,” Barr wrote in the since-deleted tweet.

    Do you honestly believe that this is the same thing?

  221. Diehard Trump supporters like to justify their racist statements and actions by tailoring the definition of racism to suit their narrative.

  222. There was no way she was trying to be offensive and racist. She’s not that dumb. She had a momentary blind spot.

    She made the exact same joke about a different black woman before that (Susan Rice). You’d have to work hard to have a more ill-informed take on the Roseanne Barr situation.

  223. Roseanne Barr
    ?
    @therealroseanne
    Sorry to have tweeted incorrect info about you!I Please forgive me! By the way, George Soros is a nazi who turned in his fellow Jews 2 be murdered in German concentration camps & stole their wealth-were you aware of that? But, we all make mistakes, right Chelsea?

    15.6K
    6:28 AM – May 29, 2018

    Yeah, exactly the same.

  224. ***please explain to me where I am off base here.***

    Why? You’ve never listened to anything the “Greek Chorus” has explained to you. (Besides, we have explained it. Read the fucking thread.)

  225. The Honorable Cock Jowles: Do you honestly believe that this is the same thing?

    Sort of. I mean, approving of a tweet comparing a spinning black athlete to a spinning gorilla and doubling down by saying the only thing missing is the banana has about as racist of a connotation as is possible under the guise of humor. It checks off just about every box in the “don’t ever, ever do that!” manual.

  226. With plethora the spinning gif’s possible (the Tasmanian Devil cartoon, Linda Blair’s head in the Exorcist, a gyroscope, etc) the original tweeter just happened to coincidentally pick the most abhorrent and often used trope of the 19th and 20th centuries a hulking black man being compared to an ape or a gorilla.

    Quite a coincidence for the original tweeter, don’t you think? Ockham’s Razor something , something.

    You’re assuming the guy went out of his way to select the image, which is adding a construction, which is not the correct use of Occam’s Razor.

    Reduced to its simplest form: someone saw something spinning and it made him think of something else that spins.

    All the racism you constructed on top of that is a plurality added without necessity.

  227. The Honorable Cock Jowles: You know what’s crazy? We watched the first 4 or 5 episodes of The Deuce and ghosted it. It was good! And still, we couldn’t be bothered to continue. Maybe we should pick that one back up now that we’ve finished Succession and Tiger King.

    I did the same exact thing.

    I did the same thing with Treme, too. I think David Simon and the law of diminishing returns are highly compatible.

  228. Sort of. I mean, approving of a tweet comparing a spinning black athlete to a spinning gorilla and doubling down by saying the only thing missing is the banana has about as racist of a connotation as is possible under the guise of humor. It checks off just about every box in the “don’t ever, ever do that!” manual.

    I assumed that since he missed the historically-racist trope the first time, he certainly wouldn’t have thought of a banana as the cherry on top of the racist iconography sundae, which, as you noted, it was. But when he was called out on it, he was like, “Shit, this is racist?” and then retracted it. There was no Roseanne-style doubling down in that sense.

    If Owen had insisted that since he didn’t mean for the comparison to have a racist subtext, it weren’t offensive in any way, this entire conversation would be different. But that’s not what happened!

  229. It was only a matter of time until Roseanne’s batshit insane QAnon-loving ass got banished from polite society. That was not going to fly for very long with that show being on ABC/Disney.

  230. who cares what bob thinks (nothing personal bob, the same thought could be extended to all)…

    what’s the end game here – put bob in a celtics jersey and throw rocks and beat him with sticks…

    you’re most certainly neither changing his behavior or world views…

    i feel like i’m talking to my mom…lesson to all: try to limit your interaction with crazy…unless you have no choice…

    racism is a mine field that is very very difficult to navigate…best sometimes to just not walk in that direction…

    the bitch of it all is – guess what – humans do resemble other animals…you know, cuz of the whole dna and genetics thing…

    and, to prove my hypothesis i give you exhibit A

    tell me snoop don’t look like a doberman, or cher like whatever the hell that kind of dog is…

    oh, so dogs, cats and whatever are cooler than gorillas…hell no – gorillas are awesome…

    i love zoos…it’s a little sad seeing them confined like that, but, i really enjoy the whole zoo atmosphere and looking at the animals…i remember when i was younger going to the stuggart zoo with a friend (i mostly remember having sex in the parking garage as we were leaving)…i was and young and dumb, and, liked to see what reactions i could get from the different animals…

    i was doing some weird shit in front of this gorilla to get their attention, it was just kind of sitting there…i’ll never forget the animal just looked at me, stood up, and then turned their back and sat back down…well fuck you too mister magilla gorilla…

    i developed a much deeper respect for gorillas that day…visually they’re stunning and beautiful creatures…and, a whole hell of a lot smarter than any dog or cat that ever lived…

  231. who cares what bob thinks (nothing personal bob, the same thought could be extended to all)…

    Here’s the rub, geo…. no one actually does care what bob thinks! (And I echo your sentiment: I like Bob, it can be extended to all of us.)

    So you have Bob pretending to care about an insignificant tweet and others pretending to care about what Bob thinks of an insignificant tweet, and Bob pretending to care about what others think of what he thinks about a tweet…. the shit can just go on and on like a hall of mirrors.

    Strat said it best:

    I wish we could move on from this because both the hypocrisy and innocence in this case are obvious.

    New thread?

  232. The Honorable Cock Jowles: I assumed that since he missed the historically-racist trope the first time, he certainly wouldn’t have thought of a banana as the cherry on top of the racist iconography sundae, which, as you noted, it was. But when he was called out on it, he was like, “Shit, this is racist?” and then retracted it. There was no Roseanne-style doubling down in that sense.

    If Owen had insisted that since he didn’t mean for the comparison to have a racist subtext, it weren’t offensive in any way, this entire conversation would be different. But that’s not what happened!

    I get that, but devoid of context they are in the same ball park, except maybe that the racist imagery in Roseanne’s statement can’t be explained away as unintended.

  233. Hubert: All the racism you constructed on top of that is a plurality added without necessity

    Kind of like you did when you insinuated that about me, remember? I sure do.

  234. new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…new thread…

    and, i think we should name it: Today is Thursday

    just remembered this thing we had at school called “silencing”…the concept behind it being that if someone did something foul enough – no one would talk or interact with them…

    trust me, that’s a way more harsh punishment than any words you can possibly share…

  235. ***All the racism you constructed on top of that is a plurality added without necessity.***

    Wait, I think you may be my sisters ex-boyfriend! We watched that Suns game together, back in ‘92. Remember?

  236. Z-man: Kind of like you did when you insinuated that about me, remember? I sure do.

    Yeah, I do. I also read a lot of what you wrote in this thread and it supports what I originally thought of you. But like Mr Geo said, it doesn’t matter what I think of you. I certainly don’t care what you think of me.

  237. New thread idea: P&T has an article up musing about the Knicks trading for Lauri Markanen. Supposedly he’s real unhappy with da Bulls.

    Do we want him, and what would the Knicks have to give up to get him?

  238. If we could just change that top button on the lower right to a bottom button. Who needs a top button anyway? Does anyone ever say, “boy, I wish I could go all the way back up to the beginning of this thread.”

  239. “Because you’re putting on a performance. Nobody here buys it.”

    Blame the messenger and don’t address the obvious issue. I wish one of you interwebz tough guys who call people assholes and racists while quivering behind a keyboard without cause please approach Mr Ewing or Mr. Thompson and show them that video and ask their opinion.

    You think the’d see the obvious humor in it…….

  240. “and, to prove my hypothesis i give you exhibit A…”

    You realize your link proves the opposite point…. of the hundreds of photo posted exactly one has a black person depicted as a simian and that just happens to be the whites black person on earth Micheal Jackson.

    There is nothing historically racist about depicting Will Smith as a catfish or Samuel Jackson as a dog.

    But a black person as a gorilla or a Jewish person as a rat with a particularly elongated nose….. now you’ve ventured into the radioactive.

  241. I read the article about Markkanan. I had very mixed feelings. He’d probably be an improvement over Partís, but he’s also about to get paid. Also, for all of Portis’s warts he never complained about his role here. I’m not sure Markkanen will be the same. And from what the article says, the Bulls will want a lot for him.

  242. ” But when he was called out on it, he was like, “Shit, this is racist?””

    I agree he realized it was a faux pax originally and retracted it but C’mon with the “Shit, is this racist?” Nonsense. It was a neat backpedal (full props for the ingenuity) but it doesn’t pass the smell test. That’s perfectly akin to Inspector Renaud bleating , “I’m shocked, I’m shocked there’s gambling going on here as he stuffs thousand Franc notes into his pocket.

    A guy who is perfectly well versed with the history of Patrick Ewing among thousands of others being depicted as simians can’t reasonable argue that tweet wasn’t clearly out of bounds . Recall it wasn’t a cute cat video…. In a vacuum without the caption an animal doing pirouettes IS funny. But it was an out of control gorilla being specifically and directly compared to a hulking black man and his brain.

    And again I never called Owen anything other than tone deaf. I merely stated it was incredibly tone deaf or something of that nature.

    I DID say the original tweet was clearly racist….. well because it it :-)

  243. “Diehard Trump supporters like to justify their racist statements and actions by tailoring the definition of racism to suit their narrative.”

    So according to the woke crew the gif of an ape being directly compared to a black man is A-OK? Care to be more specific about racist statements from the principals here in context?

  244. please approach Mr Ewing or Mr. Thompson and show them that video and ask their opinion.

    You think the’d see the obvious humor in it…….

    Context is important, Bob.

    For instance, if Patrick Ewing had been the coach of the Knicks this year and Mitchell Robinson said “hey, coach, check this out” and showed him that video…yes I think he would laugh.

  245. the point is bob – there is no point…

    yeah, no prize coming in the mail for being right :)

    what I really wanna know – how in the heck are dealing with home schooling…that is not an easy task…

  246. The irony of being lectured on the appropriate response to a racist act by a Trump apologist — still not lost on me.

  247. The “woke crowd” all uniformly said “yeah that’s not really cool dude” and then Owen said “ok my bad didn’t mean it that way” and then bob got all fake indignant about it before defending birtherism as totally neato cool and clever and then was all like bwahaha you librul Greek chorus snowflakes are da real racists.

    That’s what a giant enormous pile of hypocrisy bob is.

  248. “You’re assuming the guy went out of his way to select the image…….”

    Yes I am. To paraphrase a monk from antiquity…. if there are multiple explanations for an occurrence, the one that requires the least number of assumptions is usually correct.

    There are literally thousands of spinning non- simians a click away on the internet that would have been suitably non-racist (the hippo is my favorite because his spin is painfully slow just like Randle’s spin-a-ramas) but this fellow intentionally chose a spinning simian to compare to a large black man.

    Wm of Ockham approves of this message…..

    https://www.google.com/search?q=spinning+animals+gif&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS852US852&sxsrf=ALeKk03hDsq3cVKsBhXYf2LskI45x5ZGcg:1586460949507&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=2ekMnn1Nk5g6oM%253A%252CRLZuBnJQeHMhkM%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kSdpV53IFV2hj2yzwrJ8xJcmvoMLQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwisleHKi9zoAhXvYN8KHRlCABUQ9QEwAHoECAEQEg#imgrc=52cuYz6LJb3TMM

  249. “The irony of being lectured on the appropriate response to a racist act by a Trump apologist — still not lost on me.”

    And by the way Mr all those racists in the midwest Trump supporters who swung the election…. I went out of my way to look up the 206 counties where a majority voted TWICE for Obama and switched their vote to Trump that actually swung the election (along with hildog’s obvious flaws and inability to get anything near the Obama turn-out).

    I get crickets from you statboy…. don’t like stats now that they make a prima facie case and don’t buttress your bigoted assumptions. Sorry about your luck…..

  250. Anybody have any questions about horse breeding? Bob REALLY feels like contributing here today.

  251. ess-dog:
    Anyone have access to ESPN’s new mock draft? Curious who Givony/Schmitz like…

    It’s an interesting one. And it’s full of mistakes like picking one player and describing another. Maybe their editor has corona.

    Anthony Edwards #1 to GS

    Wiseman #2 to the Cavs, with the caveat that they might want to trade down.

    Isaac Okoro at #3 to Atlanta, which they admit is drafting for team fit not BPA.

    Lamelo at #4 to the Wolves.

    And right about now is the first time I realized that we rose so high in the standings. Thanks, Mike Miller.

    Onyeka Okongwu to the Pistons at #5.

    Deni Avdija for the Knicks at #6:

    None of the players the Knicks started at point guard this season has emerged as a long-term solution, which could cause them to look to the draft to find a franchise playmaker. Although Ball’s compatibility with RJ Barrett might look questionable, the Knicks aren’t in a position to pass up on arguably the most talented player in the draft.

    Should Ball be off the board already, Avdija looks like an interesting fit who can provide some of the ballhandling, playmaking, unselfishness and defensive versatility the roster lacks. — Givony

    7. Obi Toppin
    8. Precious Achiuwa
    9. Tyrese Halliburton
    10. Killian Hayes

    With our #27 pick, it says we take Vernon Carey, the C from Duke, but underneath that selection is describes Payton Pritchard:

    While the Knicks are likely set on finding their point guard of the future with their top-10 pick — and Carey will be appealing this late in the first round — Pritchard could help turn the franchise around with his shooting and toughness. He shoots it from 30-plus feet with ease, makes most basic reads and displays underrated defensive skills. Pritchard also fits well alongside shot-creating wings such as RJ Barrett thanks to his ability to space the floor off the catch. — Schmitz

  252. okay, like everyone else – i’m bored and have little to no self control either…so may i say:

    Capua, shall i begin?

    ***also to note: you’re only really cool if you know what that means***

    tough guys who call people assholes and racists while quivering behind a keyboard without cause please approach Mr Ewing or Mr. Thompson

    soooo, are you like threatening violence vis a vis john thompson and patrick ewing…cause if you are – i just wanna say – although both are large human beings, john thomspon is like like a 1,000 years old and pat’s got bad knees…pretty sure i can out run them both…i ain’t afraid of either…

    now, if you had said – go ahead and show that shit to julius and tell him it’s okay – i might just be a bit more fearful then…julius beats down other grown men all over the floor, and, gets paid for it…

    one of the things i like most about league view is the chance to see what happens after the whistle…julius likes to play human bumper cars with people while walking off the court…it’s odd – be it teammate or not julius just bulls his way through stray humans similar to how he goes to the basket…

  253. “For instance, if Patrick Ewing had been the coach of the Knicks this year and Mitchell Robinson said “hey, coach, check this out” and showed him that video…yes I think he would laugh.”

    I’m just guessing Mitch Robinson wouldn’t find that remotely amusing. Do you know see the wild contortions you fellas need to make to explain this away as being A-OK?

    I’m fairly certain Ewing, Thompson, and other famous black athletes involved heavily on the civil rights movement like Bill Russell, Jabbar, Jim Brown and Ali if he was still with us would take extreme umbrage to it.

    But what do I know…. I’m the racist troglodyte and you fellas have perfect understanding of everything.

    I’m sure you all agree on that :-)

  254. Anybody have any questions about horse breeding? Bob REALLY feels like contributing here today.

    awwww, that made me sad…that’s like suggesting this is the only discourse and interaction he may know, or, this particular type of feedback from others may be what he really desires…

    okay, the humor has left me…i’m done for a bit…

  255. I’m just guessing Mitch Robinson wouldn’t find that remotely amusing.

    I don’t know, man. Mitchell Robinson probably lost a lot of good dunk opportunities because of all the times Julius Randle spun around the lane like an out of control hippopotamus.

  256. “soooo, are you like threatening violence vis a vis john thompson and patrick ewing…cause if you are – i just wanna say – although both are large human beings, john thomspon is like like a 1,000 years old and pat’s got bad knees…pretty sure i can out run them both…i ain’t afraid of either…”

    I’m sorry but I can’t control the actions of other people so it would be fairly hard for me to “threaten violence vis a vis Thompson/Ewing” but I can guess what their reactions might be. I can guess what any human’s reaction might be.

    I know what my reaction would be if any of the internet tough guys here approached me face to face and called me a racist asshole. I might offer to buy them a drink and talk it out…. or I might not. :-)

    Thompson (quite understandably) didn’t seem to take to that stuff well at Georgetown….. I don’t think its a good life choice to enrage 300 pound large humans capable of crushing you like a cockroach.

  257. ” Anybody have any questions about horse breeding? Bob REALLY feels like contributing here today.’

    I do feel like setting the record straight when someone casts aspersions on my character…. if you do not the Greek Chorus echo chamber thinks you accede to their position. Its not in my DNA.

  258. “Why? You’ve never listened to anything the “Greek Chorus” has explained to you.”

    Because you have never made a compelling logical case……

  259. “He gets a boner when he gets to point out librul hypocrisy, that’s all this is about.”

    This is the first thing you have ever been correct about politically. I DO get enormous wood when these obvious hypocrisies rear their ugly heads.

    The only problem is…. they happen so often it costs me a fortune to get my priapism treated :-)

  260. “I seem to recall a world leader from the past who consolidated his power by engaging in race-baiting, xenophobic rhetoric behind a platform of “Make ______ great again!”, who sought to punish all political enemies, including those in his own party, who continually referred to the free press as “The Enemy of the People” and who said publicly that there were “very good people” in an assembly of white nationalists carrying torches and chanting threatening anti-Semitic slogans.

    At least Trump is nothing like that guy…”

    Ahhhh….. nothing quite says Passover like a gratuitous crazily conflated Hitlerian reference …..

  261. Can we please talk basketball? Hubert, thanks for posting that. I found it interesting that ESPN seems to assume the Knicks will draft for need instead of best player available. It’s not like any point guard drafted sixth in a weak draft will contribute right away. So if we’re drafting by need why not try for someone who can shoot. That was probably our biggest weakness this year.

  262. i’m old and my memory is pretty selective at times (although i can remember that stuggart parking garage in very vivid detail like it happened yesterday)…it’s driving me nuts cause i can’t remember their name – who’s the poster whom always provides a really detailed breakdown of the draft and players available…

    edit: just looked it up – it’s djphan…i remember for a while liking to mess with djphan, they were always just so earnest…when it comes to poking on folks a bit, an earnest participant magnifies the pleasure of poking like ten-fold…hope wherever you are you’re well…same for you cdiggy and all the other folks whom stop by…

    man, they just cancelled nbatv from my service provider…i got to be honest though – the only sport i seem to enjoy watching old replays of is boxing and mma…baseball, football, soccer, basketball – not so much…

    tried watching a 90’s knick game the other day, but…eh, the past is the past…

    the nba2K thing didn’t really interest me, but i’ll definitely give the h-o-r-s-e competition a try…

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