2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks @ A Team That Just Gave Up 140 Points to the Grizzlies

This next stop might be a lot easier than you would normally expect. Playing without Paul George and Patrick Beverley, the Los Angeles Clippers were just embarrassed on their home floor by Ja Morant (…sigh…this team is perpetually one pick away, aren’t they?) and the Memphis Grizzlies just last night, so the quick turnaround should also help the Knicks a lot.

The shorthanded Clippers are obviously still much better than the Knicks, but if you’re going to steal a game, this is ripe for the stealing. Kawhi playing a day game after a night game? With his injury issues? It could get interesting.

Anyhow, let’s go! Knicks?

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135 thoughts to “2019-20 Game Thread: Knicks @ A Team That Just Gave Up 140 Points to the Grizzlies”

  1. uh oh, listening to the clips pre-game, seems they’re pretty upset with themselves for what happened yesterday…

    this may not go so great, or, maybe they’re having a bit of a dip in the season…

    to tank or not to tank…is it even a question…

  2. No Payton means this will almost assuredly be a miserable slog of a game. Can we at least get some Trier?

  3. there’s an unintentionally funny line in today’s berman article about the sixers interest in Morris, noting an nba executive thinks both trier and ellington have value and could net a “distant-future second rounder”

  4. Did the Clips really trade Gallo, SGA and 5 first round picks for Pau George?

    Yes, but Kawhi wouldn’t go to LAC without Paul George. It’s not that crazy when you get Kawhi, George, and a legit title shot.

    OKC really cashed in.

  5. Mo Harkless – salary dump – now starting for the Clippers.

    Kawhi OUT
    George IN
    Beverley IN

    We’re basically playing a different team than the one the Grizz blew out less than 24 hours ago.

  6. keen basketball insight – miller passes out backhanded “daps/dabs”(?) from the bench…a very gentle gesture…

  7. crazy, but cool he showed up in phoenix, hopefully the knicks cover his air arrangements this time…

  8. amazing left handed touch tip by mitch

    Mitch is so impressive around the rim, that’s not an easy tip

  9. bobby portis is absolutely horrendous at defense…his scoring is a mute point, because:

    bobby portis is absolutely horrendous at defense

    okay, in the time it took me to write this he hit two 3’s…he still sucks though…

  10. a month ago I was dreaming about a morris for shamet deal…reggie though has got me curious…

    if nothing else his performance limits RJ’s minutes which increase the team’s likelihood for success…

    wow, some crazy good football the weekend…it just keeps getting better…

  11. Yeah, when you build a big lead by shooting 75% for awhile, the comedown is going to be hard. And in this case, fast.

  12. whoa, finished up the football game came back and they’re trailing…yikes, better I not know what happened…

    so glad bobby portis took the time to fire up the clip bench…what a goof…

  13. Always loved Montrezl. I wonder what they think of him on Clipperblogger. He’d be one of my top five Knicks of this century.

  14. I have to gloat just a little…

    Z-man
    March 29, 2015 at 3:16 pm

    Montrzel is a monster. He’s gonna be an impact pro. May not have the upside of some guys who would be drafted before him, but he’s a disruptive force out there. Great body, great motor, nice feel for the game. Maybe a bit undersized for a true PF, but should be at least as good as (THCJ’s) buddy Faried…To clarify, I think Montrezl is a good mid-first round pick-up, and a steal anywhere below the top-15. Draft Express has him ranked #21, that has to be too low…

  15. I can’t remember, but, didn’t he have some “stuff” going on at school with his academics…

    high motor, at the time though seemed not too sharp, discipline question…

  16. I’ve got the flu and I am very confused by this game.

    I’ve started to do shots of pickle juice before bed when I’ve had a few drinks. I am glad I haven’t been able to test it with flu dehydration, but hey, couldn’t hurt.

    Harrell is a great example of how you can build your team from underrated skillsets and wait for the big two-ways. I would never consider the addition of the most important pieces of these Clippers anything but a special case (with both of their two-way superstar wings colluding to come home) but the core they retained from last season is definitely attainable.

    I just tuned in, looks like a damn pickup game.

  17. That last break there was a trivia challenge with a guy in the crowd. One of the questions was what NBA team did (a former Clippers player) end his playing career with?

    The guy’s answer: Nebraska.
    :-)

  18. @62
    Frank is a bit better at a few things, but I really really wish he could shoot. Just no signs of that getting consistent.

  19. I’m 30 minutes from landing back at LAX…

    It’s cool they’re hanging in there with the Clips. What I really want is for them to beat the Lakers Tuesday, “meaningless win” be damned. I don’t care if Morris has to go for 45 and Portis goes for 30. Us miraculously beating LeBron n Co will be a great belated bday gift!

  20. Trading big buckets right now. Wow.

    Also Z-man, Harrell is like if Ben Wallace had a slightly-smaller brother who learned all of his moves from Ken Faried. That is a big dude.

  21. The dunk a couple of games ago was pretty awesome.

    That was real good, but this was better. Threading the needle, then finishing through contact. Big steps for our young man!

  22. I think I’m going to die frustrated that excellent games like this one end up a clock/foul-management slog

    Hell of an L. That’s what I wanna see, baby!

  23. I don’t see how a healthy Clips team doesn’t win the title. So many weapons, so many lockdown defenders.

  24. Mike Miller night actually deserve this job full time. And how anybody could think Marcus Morris shouldn’t get traded is beyond me.

  25. Ok so now the Clippers have to trade for Morris right?

    Great, great game by Barrett and a very encouraging loss.

  26. I mean, really all we can get for Morris is the 30th pick in the draft? Maybe somehow we get a 3rd team involved and get a better pick than that?

    I get that it makes no sense to keep Morris, but his value is pretty damn high right now.

  27. Also Z-man, Harrell is like if Ben Wallace had a slightly-smaller brother who learned all of his moves from Ken Faried. That is a big dude.

    Yeah, he’s not quite DPOY material but his offensive post game has a lot more polish on it than I expected. Pretty good value at $6 Million, eh?

    pssst…he’s a UFA at the end of this year, the Clips will have to go way into the tax to keep him at fair market value

  28. Play to Win.
    Develop your young future core.
    Embrace & learn by the Loss.
    No reason to feel bad after this L

  29. pssst…he’s a UFA at the end of this year, the Clips will have to go way into the tax to keep him at fair market value

    Clippers sent like every draft pick they have for the next decade. They would be 2012 Thunder levels of stupid to start pinching pennies now. I know the tax bill won’t be pretty but neither will a 50-something-win team that gets bounced in the Semis because they lack the prime-years role players to compete at all five positions.

  30. Steve Ballmer is worth somewhere around 60 billion dollars he doesn’t give a fuck about a tax bill for a good team

  31. If I’m a Clippers owner I actually view this team as an investment in the future. If the Clippers can string together a couple more years of high-level basketball and beat the Lakers in a true intra-city rivalry, you could boost the value of the franchise significantly more than the cost of Harrell’s contract. Here’s Forbes NBA franchise Valuations.

    I look at this and see two teams playing in the same city and playing in the same arena, but the Clippers making a lot less than the Lakers. A competitive rivalry between the two can boost the earnings of the Clippers, increase their share of the LA fanbase, allow them to charge more for tickets, and eventually sell the team for more money. I’d argue that it actually makes a lot of business sense to spend that extra money on Harrell and the others for as long as they remain competitive, especially with the buzz a Lakers-Clippers playoff series could have this year.

  32. If I’m a Clippers owner I actually view this team as an investment in the future. If the Clippers can string together a couple more years of high-level basketball and beat the Lakers in a true intra-city rivalry, you could boost the value of the franchise significantly more than the cost of Harrell’s contract. Here’s Forbes NBA franchise Valuations.

    I look at this and see two teams playing in the same city and playing in the same arena, but the Clippers making a lot less than the Lakers. A competitive rivalry between the two can boost the earnings of the Clippers, increase their share of the LA fanbase, allow them to charge more for tickets, and eventually sell the team for more money. I’d argue that it actually makes a lot of business sense to spend that extra money on Harrell and the others for as long as they remain competitive, especially with the buzz a Lakers-Clippers playoff series could have this year.

    Steve Ballmer was a founder of Microsoft and this team is his expensive toy. He isn’t selling it. H ewill spend as much money as he can to make the team as competitive as possible because it is more fun for him….. not because it might make the franchise more valuable in the short term. That might be an ancillary benefit, but not a driving force.

    The difference between men and boys is the price of their toys……

  33. Maybe we should sign Harrell just so that Mitch never has to play against him ever again…

    Except in practices, and they might be something to watch

  34. You guys all want to trade Morris, but to me he’s worth more than the 30th pick in next years draft. If a team trades for him, not only do they get a good player, but they also get $15 million in extra cap space next year. Just by itself that much expiring cap space is worth a pick, and in this case you get Morris too.

  35. You guys all want to trade Morris, but to me he’s worth more than the 30th pick in next years draft. If a team trades for him, not only do they get a good player, but they also get $15 million in extra cap space next year. Just by itself that much expiring cap space is worth a pick, and in this case you get Morris too.

    It’s more complicated than that. He’s a rental with no bird rights. Who would value a rental besides teams at the bottom of the draft with short term goals? It’s hard to find a team like that with anything valuable to offer.

    Teams with something to offer, like Portland, don’t have the motivation. Why would a 15-22 team give up a 1st for a rental?

    It’s a shame we didn’t sign morris to randle’s contract. I actually kinda like him. He’d be a great 4 playing next to Mitch (without Randle). I would not be against signing him again next year.

  36. If a team trades for him, not only do they get a good player, but they also get $15 million in extra cap space next year.

    What you’re not getting is that people aren’t suggesting trading him for the 30th pick while also taking back a bad multi year contract. If that was the trade we would want more consideration. But if you trade him for another expiring deal like Kent Bazemore you are not giving up anything beside two months of Marcus Morris and a modestly higher chance of successfully paying 31 year old Marcus Morris fair market value. It’s a no brainer to get value for him, and the way he is playing it ought to be there. There is a long history of monetizing rentals without taking back contracts and while many teams don’t have the matching salaries a few critical teams do, while others can sometimes get creative to make a deal work.

  37. Ahh. Me and the fiancee are back home safe and sound.

    I look at this and see two teams playing in the same city and playing in the same arena, but the Clippers making a lot less than the Lakers. A competitive rivalry between the two can boost the earnings of the Clippers, increase their share of the LA fanbase, allow them to charge more for tickets…

    My man, the Clippers will need to do A LOT more than that to significantly dig into the Lakers market share. I posted about this a while back, but living out here, I can attest that this is – and probably will forever be – Lakerland. There isn’t a hipster movement here like in Brooklyn where the Clips can grab new fans like the Nets (and even that won’t sway die-hard Knick fans). More importantly, the Clips have to compete not just with the current iteration of the Lakers but the historical allure of Lakers past. Then you combine that with the Clips’ epic futility up until this past decade.

    Oh, and Laker fans don’t (and probably will never) take the Clippers seriously. Akin to how Yankee fans feel about the Mets, although you can argue the Mets overall have had more success than the Clippers.

  38. I agree about the no bird rights part. But the contract is still helpful because if it’s a contending team they are almost certainly over the cap so they have to give us something back for Morris that comes close to his salary. If that takes the form of unwanted players, then they are getting the benefit of losing those contracts in addition to the benefit of getting Morris. If they give us an actually useful player in return, or they give some young guys with potential, then we get useful players in addition to a pick. Either way, that’s more than just a late first round pick.

  39. My favorite Marcus Morris trade sends him to Miami. I’d love to watch Jimmy Butler and Marcus Morris beat up the Celtics in the playoffs.

  40. Oh, and Laker fans don’t (and probably will never) take the Clippers seriously. Akin to how Yankee fans feel about the Mets, although you can argue the Mets overall have had more success than the Clippers.

    So true. The Mets have a kind of lovable underdog thing to them, and attract a certain kind of person as a fan. The Clippers don’t really have that. The Clippers just don’t make a dent in this city at all.

    This town is all about the Dodgers and Lakers.

  41. Ok but who is a suitor that has a need for a rental, a contract they want to dump, and more than a late first to offer?

    The best partner I can think of is Miami bc they have Herro and some shit contracts. But that’s a steep price to pay.

  42. You don’t need to take a bad contract unless the offer is good enough. I think the worst case no risk offers are something like a high second and an expiring deal. The Mavericks have the GSW 2nd and Courtney lee. The hornets supposedly wanted Morris in the offseason and probably want to make the playoffs post Kemba. They have the Cavs 2nd and multiple matching expirings. Hell the hornets are so weird you might get them to throw in a future pick swap. These high seconds are not bad assets and they are better than nothing. I think a better offer probably comes around.

  43. Today’s game was a pretty good example of why I sometimes throw cold water on the Robinson hype based on BPM, WS48 etc…

    He can still be limited on offense and abused on the other end with good game planning and a tough matchup.

    That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have the talent to eventually become a legitimate high level two way C, but these day to day stats do not reflect what he’s capable of in a playoff type environment where teams are making adjustments and some of the matchups are brutal.

    He has a LOT to learn and has to expand his game.

  44. That’s a little harsh re: Mitch. Sure, he has a lot to learn, but he also seems to be a fast learner. He played much better later in the game. He also outplayed Hassan Whiteside. And no one is saying that he’s anywhere near a finished product.

  45. Everyone keeps calling Morris a rental, but he keeps screaming as loudly and as often as possible that he wants to stay in NY and be part of turning the franchise around.

    Maybe we should take him at his word?

    The questions then become:

    Is veteran leadership and experience (Taj’s Gibson is another) working with guys like Robinson, Knox, Barrett, Frank etc.. to improve their games quicker worth foregoing a long term asset?

    Is signing Morris to a fair long term deal next year (call it 3 years) and helping us get to the playoffs 1 year earlier to get that experience and accelerate our development worth forgoing a long term asset?

    There are no easy ways to value what guys like that bring to the table in terms of teaching kids how to work, win, close out games, and play the game the right way.

    There are no easy ways to value what going through the playoffs earlier does to accelerate the learning curve of young players even if they get KO’d in the first round. Every young team has to go through it and is better for the experience.

    All we know is there is value.

    So you better get back a pretty good asset if you are going to push our development further into the future to draft some kid that may never be as good as Morris even years from now.

    To me, if we trade Morris and get a decent 1st rounder, we should be looking to trade that pick as part of a deal to bring in a much better player. We don’t need any more children and 5 year projects on this team. We need guys that ARE good NOW, that will make us better, and that are young enough to be part of this team for the duration of their contract while our young players learn and develop. In the mean time, we can keep drafting other young players with our own picks, managing cap space wisely, and looking for an opportunity to land a whale.

  46. That’s a little harsh re: Mitch. Sure, he has a lot to learn, but he also seems to be a fast learner. He played much better later in the game. He also outplayed Hassan Whiteside. And no one is saying that he’s anywhere near a finished product.

    I didn’t mean for it to be harsh if it came out that way. I love him. I simply think when your offense is limited to dunks and putbacks (no matter how awesome you are at it) and you are constantly getting into foul trouble against mediocre teams, you are going to have a lot of trouble against good teams/tough matchups some nights. To become a legit star in this league he needs to expand his game and learn a lot more. He’s not as good as some models suggest yet.

  47. I think if we’re keeping Marcus Morris long term (which is the wrong move IMO), you have to beat the 3 year, $41M offer he had from LAC. He’s likely to cost us $45M over the next three years, and that’s okay for an actual two way player. As far as blue chip prospects go, we have two of those and we have all of our picks going forward. If the Knicks can foster an environment conducive to RJ and Mitch’s long term development and success, we might have something. Draft Cassius Stanley and Aaron Nesmith, and you really might have something going.

    Of course, the Knicks have nothing going until Mills is gone, so we have to wait and see.

  48. Well, Morris has played in 5 franchises in 9 years in the league, and just came to the Knicks after backing out of a commitment he had made to another franchise. Are you guys really sure he’ll stick to his word and want to stay in the 30 win Knicks for next season? I’m not buying it.

    Even if he does want to stay, why would we even want him back? Most of his value comes from shooting 45% from 3 on 6 attempts a game, and that’s a guy who never even reached 40% one single time before in 8 seasons, his best previous mark is 38%.

    I get some of you are just desperate to watch any type of competent player on the Knicks, but this seems like a terrible decision any way you slice it. He’s already 30, his numbers scream outlier, he’s playing his best in a contract year, he has shown already he’ll follow the money over other loyalties… every possible red flag against keeping him is in place.

    I don’t think it’s a franchise killer if we give him a 3 year 45 million deal, but it would be just as bad as giving Courtney Lee or Arron Afflalo the contracts they received. Just trade him as soon as possible so we can get some long term value on him and that’s it, keeping him is a big mistake and would be a disaster if he just walks away for nothing in the summer.

  49. Hey, I have a great idea! Let’s invest in Marcus Morris’ decline phase! What could possibly goink wrong? Win curve is for suckers, let’s shell out lots of dough for veterans who are certain to decline even though we’re one of the shittiest teams in the league! By the time we’re any good he’ll be useless, so this should work out brilliantly!

    It’s kind of amazing after all these years that people are still advocating for terrible ideas like this, but, well, here we are. I look forward to the “when does Marcus Morris’ contract run out again” conversations in 2021.

  50. What I find the most amusing about the Marcus Morris stuff is that it was so predictable. I know I wasn’t the only one who said when they signed him that at least here was a guy who had actual value that they could actually trade, but if he played well, they’d be too dumb to trade him and any decent play would lead to people saying, “Hey, let’s keep him!” So it’s not just stupid, it’s so predictably stupid.

    Like how all you need is, like, two wins in a row for it to be, “Hey, maybe the Knicks should try to make the playoffs!”

  51. and, those two wins are just right around the corner…down the street, across town, on another planet…

  52. @Brian, yep, on r/nyknicks after the Wizards loss, it was “okay, now we give up on the playoffs and liquidate assets,” which agitated me because the Knicks should have given up on the playoffs when free agency didn’t yield a superstar, and fans should have given up on the playoffs when they saw the hodge podge the Knicks signed, and if they didn’t, well they damn well should have given up on the playoffs at some point before the team hit 7-24 as it did when it fell to the Wiz.

    And then of course three straight wins over teams with losing records (we haven’t beaten a team that’s currently over .500 since Dallas nearly 2 months ago) has people howling about playoff hopes and how this is some changed team on a whole new trajectory.

  53. The Morris situation is like some recovering alcoholic friend of yours accidentally stumbling upon a 1970 bottle of The Macallan whisky, and some of your friends are like, “No, no, trust me, this is going to be good, he can put that whisky up for sale online and eventually, someone will buy it for a lot of money. It’ll be good.” And you and some of your other friends are like, “Okay, there is a chance that this could work, as while that bottle isn’t the most expensive bottle of whisky, it is popular enough that you should be able to sell it for a good amount. The only problem is that that dude is totally going to drink that whisky.” And the first group of friends are like, “No, that’s in the past. He’s not going to drink it. He’s going to get something for it. It’s going to work out.”

    And then, a few months later, while it is still listed online and some people have sent him messages indicating that they’re willing to buy it, those first group of friends who were telling you why this was going to work out are telling him, “Dude, you should totally just drink that whisky. It’s such good whisky!”

  54. He’s not as good as some models suggest yet.

    No shit….. he’s 21 FFS…..he has gaps in his game, yet he is incredibly efficient and his on/off the floor numbers suggest a value far beyond Mr. KP…..

  55. The signings were all pointless. You can squint and make a partial “case” for Randle, based primarily on age, but all the rest were pointless. If not counterproductive. No other organization does stupid shit like that, and there’s a reason.

    The idea of reacting to Marcus Morris’s contract year and full liberty to chuck by giving him a 3 or 4 year market value deal is absolutely cookoo talk and I can’t believe it’s actually being seriously contemplated.

  56. Everyone keeps calling Morris a rental, but he keeps screaming as loudly and as often as possible that he wants to stay in NY and be part of turning the franchise around.

    Maybe we should take him at his word?

    If Morris wants to be part of turning the franchise around, the best thing he can do is go play for another team for a few months, get us some assets, and come back in the summer.

    Then I would trade Randle in the summer for more assets and play Morris as a stretch 4 with Robinson.

    If you got a bevy of assets for Randle and Morris and ended up with a Morris-Robinson frontcourt duo to start next year, that might actually make our offseason moves look decent in hindsight.

  57. that might actually make our offseason moves look decent in hindsight

    I said this before reading Brian’s epic post in @131. I recant my statement.

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