(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 8:49:01 PM)
One Laker was so frustrated during a lopsided loss to the Knicks on Wednesday that he ripped off Mitchell Robinson’s headband and threw it at the towering center. The odd sequence of events — in the third quarter of the Knicks 117-96 first Summer League win — earned Nick Perkins an ejection. Robinson pulled down…
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 8:00:24 PM)
LAS VEGAS — RJ Barrett showed a new wrinkle in his repertoire Wednesday and perhaps a way the Knicks may use the 6-foot-7 swingman in his rookie year. While his perimeter shot was still shaky, the 19-year-old lottery pick out of Duke excelled when given post-up opportunities in his fourth summer league game, taking advantage…
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 6:52:43 PM)
LAS VEGAS — Rich Paul, the agent for LeBron James and Anthony Davis, has always wanted a client on the Knicks because New York is the nation’s biggest market. If forward Marcus Morris reneges on his verbal agreement with the Spurs for a two-year deal for $20 million, Paul will get his wish. Paul, on…
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 4:22:59 PM)
LAS VEGAS — The first 30-point game in the 2019 Las Vegas Summer League was still fresh Sunday night when the man responsible for it took a winding walk through the bowels of the Thomas & Mack Center. The 20-year-old Knicks rookie had put on a show, complete with his trademark flair, to introduce himself…
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 1:27:26 PM)
LAS VEGAS — Amar’e Stoudemire will not be taking any wine baths in preparation for suiting up for the Knicks again. The team has decided not to make a move for Stoudemire, according to an NBA source. Stoudemire staged a workout for 15 teams, the Knicks among them, in Las Vegas on Monday. Stoudemire, 36,…
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 11:34:16 PM)
The Knicks Summer League squad blew out the Lakers 117-96 on Wednesday night in Las Vegas.
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 7:26:05 PM)
The New York Knicks reportedly will not sign former player Amar’e Stoudemire after attending a workout he held on Monday.
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 5:56:55 PM)
How Kawhi Leonard’s two-year contract effects the New York Knicks and 2020-21 free agency.
(Wednesday, July 10, 2019 4:18:39 PM)
Contrary to what social media might tell you, RJ Barrett is not a bust. Let me be the one to offer the short list of reasons why. He’s 19 years old, playing basketball for the first time in a few months, and has just three games under his belt … in the Summer League.
183 replies on “Knicks Morning News (2019.07.11)”
RJ’s rebounding numbers are great. Did he play mostly as a 2 or 3? Where any of them in traffic? Is he blocking people out to get them? Reading the angles?
The Lakers team did look like garbage, but even accounting for that there were some nice signs for the Knicks. Barrett didn’t look like Melo at all. He got rebounds, but they weren’t from his own misses. He was happy shooting threes, he didn’t waste time isoing and he also was happy passing. Mitch showed something new (as noted by BigBlueAl, a finger roll) and seems to be able to score from slightly farther away from the basket than last season. And Rebecca Harlow was actually looking pretty good.
An efficient game out of Knox?
I demand a recount.
It’s hard to say if Barrett was a two or a three. The starting lineup was Robinson, Knox, Iggy, Barrett and Allen. He’s the same height as Iggy, so they were basically both wings. He did handle the ball coming up court more than Iggy, so I guess he was the two. Some of his rebounds were in traffic. He seems to be good at reading rebounds and getting there quickly.
Knox and Barrett shot twenty two free throws altogether. That is a good sign.
Barrett’s best position so far is as a 1. His court vision and passing ability are way better than I expected. Three assists last night doesn’t begin to do his floor game justice. I want the ball in his hands.
@4 thanks, that’s great. A top rebounding 2 and a happy passer is a wonderful start. I love his attitude too. Looking at the highlights he’s clearly excited to be there and he’s happy like a kid when his teammates score. I’m rooting for him.
@1
What @4 said, but also yes, he got a few strong box outs as well, sometimes even on bigs. Dude is really strong for his age. He’s looking good offensively despite the poor shooting, I think. His man defense was improved this game too, but he’s still a subpar team defender. But perhaps a ++drb rate can go a long way towards counterbalancing those defensive deficiencies.
@6 but as a full time 1? It’d be hard if he can’t go right.
Just as we shouldn’t react two strongly to those garbage fire first two games, we shouldn’t overreact to Barrett playing much better in the last two. Still, it’s reassuring to be reminded of the many NBA skills we were told he had that would compensate for his questionable shooting.
@8 maybe we finally have nice things.
Probably not a full-time 1 (and he’s likely not going to be anything like that this year dude just turned 19), but long-term something like that. I love that if he plays 1 and the matchup is right, you can feed him in the post and he can score or get to the line. He’s got a really versatile game. Even in the game he laid brick after brick, he had 10 boards.
In the age of positionless basketball, he doesn’t really even have to be called a 1, but he can do the things a good 1 can do.
Maybe it’s that they were both highly recruited Blue Devils, plus their body types, plus the fact that people were/are talking about them both playing the 1 in the pros, plus the fact that they have a lot of question marks regarding their efficiency, but every time I read about RJ Barrett I can’t shake the image of Brandon Ingram from my head.. am I wrong?
Barrett had 2 turnovers total over the last 2 games, after a bunch of really ugly ones in the first 2. He’s gonna be fine, he has really nice court vision, (unlike Knox he’s a willing passer and made a bunch of connections to Mitch), and he seems to have a decent post-up game. His 3 point shot has been pretty awful, but his form is fine and hopefully that will improve.
I just think he’s the kind of player where you’re going to see incremental improvement game to game. He may not have a breakout rookie season, but as he gets more comfortable with the NBA game he’s gonna be a really good player in the long term IMO.
Maybe RJ can be Draymond Green
A MR, Randle, Iggy, RJ and Frank line up might not score very well or win very often but it might be an aesthetically pleasing group to watch play.
Knicksian PTSD is my diagnosis 🙂
Brandon Ingram was one of the skinniest players I ever saw when he came out of college, and still hasn’t made the leap physically. RJ is built like a 10-year vet, and is using his strength to his advantage. Ingram might have been a bit springier and longer. I don’t see any similarity.
I think that beyond a certain modicum of athleticism and skill, most of what separates role players from stars is between the ears. Summer league is a step up for these guys, and it seems like being an intelligent player can be a hindrance….expecting too much from oneself and pressing in the face of expectations. The hope is that it defines what a player needs to work on, and that the player spends the next 3 months living in the gym, At the very least, both RJ and Iggy look like they have a good understanding of the game, will have learned some valuable things from SL and will bust their asses getting ready for training camp.
The most encouraging thing from RJ isn’t his rebounding (really, really good) or his ability to get to the rim, even if without burst (but with real purpose).
Do you remember when, in the last 20 or so games of last season, Mitch started pinning down his defenders two feet from the basket twice or thrice a game… and nobody could pass him the ball? Well, RJ can do that. He made a habit of giving Mitch the ball as soon as our Lousiana kid had the advantage near the rim, and was pretty effective at doing so. I don’t know if he can have the same success among grown men, but that was extremely refreshing.
The shooting is total shit, but the kid looks determined. If we had a good coach I’d be an optimist about him. Right now I’m on the line, but I liked what I saw in the last two games.
RE: Yesterday’s throwback thread for the 2011 draft. Everyone commenting on latke’s take on Kawhi and ignoring the 2nd damned comment in the thread:
People were against this trade! Didn’t want to trade DWTDD and 17 for Kemba frigging Walker!
If KP wasn’t such a dickish diva, RJ’s penchant for rebounding would have probably neutered Porzingis’ biggest problem on defense, and Mitch’s mobility could have allowed KP to stay under the rim. Can you imagine a (Token PG)-RJ-Dotson-KP-Mitch lineup? Ah, Dolan’s Razor.
So it looks like it may have been a nerves thing the first 2 games. Last night RJ looked like I thought he’d look against SL conp. Good to see.
RJ seems pretty methodical, more crafty and opportunistic than explosive. He reminds me a bit of a throwback like Andre Miller. It could be that he’s just sizing things up.
I think Iggy is going to be a very, very good NBA player. Not many guys can make you pay if you cheat either left, right or back. It’s a very rare skillset that he has. And he’s more athletic than I thought. He needs to work on defense and passing, but there’s a lot of potential for growth in that crazy package. And clearly he’ll be a fan fave at MSG if he blows up. Ig-sanity?
The SummerLakers were pitiful, hard to read anything into that game other than things that don’t depend on the level of comp. I had the feeling that most of those guys won’t even make a G-League team.
I agree that great players have innate mental gifts like memory, spatial awareness and intuition, but what about depth perception and hand-eye coordination? Steph Curry, for one, is “unathletic” but has a natural gift for assessing his distance from the basket and then throwing the basketball like he’s a human mortar.
No pre-draft measurements can capture that, and it leads teams down a path of frustration and wasted time. And that’s something to fear about Barrett’s game, especially given his inability to shoot the easiest shot in the game, the free throw.
RJ has a lot of work to do, but he’s got the right tools and hopefully the smarts to implement changes.
He’s terrible from three, but his shot doesn’t look super broken or anything like Simmons’. Enough reps will get him to respectability, I believe. He just needs enough of a shot to keep defenders honest.
While we’re on Simmons, he could be a nice role model, as RJ seems like he could make a living by bullying smaller players, creating for teammates, and rebounding. It must be exciting for RJ to have a guy like Mitch to play pitch-and-catch with. He didn’t have anything like that at Duke.
Unfortunately, I don’t see Payton as a good fit with RJ, what with his shooting woes. I’m hoping DSJ will make the needed changes to become a good-shooting pg that can run the break but also let RJ do his thing.
Since we’re still a rebuilding team my preferred starting lineup come opening day would be:
DSJr/RJ/Iggy/Randle/Mitch
With a second string of
Payton/Bullock/Dotson/Portis/Taj
But really the starting lineup will probably look like:
Payton/RJ/Bullock/Randle/Mitch
Which I can deal with, though I’d like to see more DSJr to see if he’s made a leap.
There really is a minutes crunch on this team now. Frank is going to be traded by opening day or warming the bench unless he lights FIBA up.
Remember when Kevin Knox said that the Knicks would win at least 35 before last season? And then that he deserved to make an All-Rookie team? I don’t think I have to wonder how he’s going to feel about coming off the bench, to say nothing of his destiny as the captain in Westchester.
I mean, to be fair no one could be sure Kemba would turn into Kemba, he had good college stats but there there was hope he or Kawhi would fall. Also TD had a pretty good rookie year and a very good sophomore season, so he was at the height of his perceived value. We probably shouldn’t have had such high hopes for him since he was an old (23yo) rookie, but hindsight is 20/20. A swap from 17 to 10 is worth about a late first rounder to early second rounder depending on what value chart you go by, which probably would have been good to fair value for TD in 2011. But accounting for homerism for a productive young(ish) player, the fact that the trade was never real,and the possibility of Kemba or Kawhi falling, I don’t think those tales are anything to be embarrassed about. Like we could have taken Faried at 17 (reportedly would have if Shump was gone) and Kemba wasn’t a late first rounder better in value prospect at that point. The takes didn’t hold up but I don’t think the thinking behind them was that far off.
I think this is something he’s consciously trying to work on, because, and I only know this because I’ve been catching up on his pre-draft scouting reports, the biggest knock on him in college was that he was a true tunnel vision, head down kind of guy.
Obviously the better he becomes as a play maker the more valuable he’ll be, but I think his role will always be pretty bucket oriented. If he can do that well, he’ll return a lot of value as a second rounder. I don’t think he’ll ever be a 3 in anything but spot lineups though, which makes it that much more annoying that we housed the market on mediocre 4s.
Odds are that if they had lucked out and drafted Kawhi, they also would have traded him away. Probably for Bargnani.
@26 many super-smart players have come into the league with glaring weaknesses and through intelligence became at least serviceable or even very good over time. Magic is probably the best example, he was a bad FT shooter and 3-pt shooter and later became excellent at the former and serviceable at the latter. Steph, as you yourself have pointed out is a very underrated athlete. By minimum, I mean that you have at least some capacity to defend. Steve Novak is a good example of a very smart and skilled player who just didn’t have enough athleticism to be a star player.
Like everyone else I really like what I’ve been seeing from Iggy (isn’t this nickname already taken? Can’t we do better?), but it sure seems like he’s going to have a tough path to finding any minutes on this team. The more I look at it the more I think it’s going to be really, really interesting to see how Fiz balances the minutes here. We’ve got a good number of vets who are going to expect to play and a whole gaggle of kids who probably should be playing given where we are on the win curve (some of whom are probably productive and many of whom aren’t). What’s this team’s mandate for this year? Is the internal goal to make the playoffs, or to give the kids all they can eat, lock down another top-5 pick and maybe build some trade value on a veteran here or there? I honestly am not sure and the scattershot free agency moves definitely didn’t clarify it for me.
Bargnani is an example of a guy with plenty of athleticism and skill but a total zero between the ears (although he’s a financial wizard in terms of earnings vs. production)
It was such a fascinating team. You rarely get to see a team that devoid of any slight talent.
Didn’t catch any of the SL games — reading the comments, is it far off-base to think Igs might be the second coming of McDermott?
FWIW, four out of six of the commentators on the Ringer describe the Knicks as the biggest losers in free agency this year. I know they like to pile on, but it’s always surprising when people agree with my take… (much of it is who they got, not just who they missed out on).
I think we need to do better on a nickname for Mitch.
I have always wanted something that suggests missile defense. Not sure NORAD works and Star Wars has another meaning, Aegis and THAAD don’t work.
He is legitimately emerging as the greatest three point shot blocker ever. Which is pretty amazing
they are both of caucasian descent, so yes, the comparison is in fact real
Iggys nickname is Brazzers and thats final.
I’m just glad that people are not letting them off the hook for their shitty free agency just because it could have been worse.
I say no nickname, like Tyson Chandler. But especially not Blockness Monster nor Lobinson.
“Oak” and “Mase” happened to words be in those players’ names and also the names of a solid tree and a weapon for bludgeoning or a type of tear gas so it worked.
I think we need to do better on a nickname for Mitch.
I have always wanted something that suggests missile defense. Not sure NORAD works and Star Wars has another meaning, Aegis and THAAD don’t work.
He is legitimately emerging as the greatest three point shot blocker ever. Which is pretty amazing
we could try beta blocker bc he eradicates morey nerdball treys
@40 Thank you! I knew somebody here had what it took.
As I recall McDermott was a spot up shooter who got open and then received the ball. Iggy is more of create his own shot kind of player.
In Barrett we seem to be getting exactly what some people here said we were getting. He’s an above average rebounder and passer for a SG that has strength and skills around the basket, but he needs to work on his outside shot.
If he develops a consistent outside shot and can play at least neutral defense, he’ll be a very good player. If he keeps throwing up bricks from outside he’s going be tougher time, especially on a team like NY as it’s currently constructed. IMO, we don’t have enough good outside shooting and spacing.
I’m more interested in his defense going forward. I’m willing to wait a few years for his shot to develop, but I’d like to see if he at least has the speed and effort to be a good defender now as he learns.
100% exactly how I feel.
No grading on a curve just because we’ve had even worse off seasons.
If Iggy Brazdekis could develop into our own Joe Harris/Harrison Barnes kind of guy he’d be a major asset for us out of the 2nd round. He could be our best 3 point shooter from Day 1, and that’s definitely a guy who could develop into a starter. This kid wasn’t a senior when he came out; he and Cam Reddish are the same age, and if Cam had his stats he would have gone #4 overall.
My only fear is that the Knicks would unfairly keep Kevin Knox ahead of him because of draft position.
Guys, guys, guys. Blockness Monster is AWESOME. I am stunned anyone would suggest otherwise.
Bargnani was a fairly talented guy that didn’t start out all that bad, but he got killed because he was drafted #1 and ultimately very overpaid. When you don’t live up to the hype, you always get killed by the media. But then injuries and his general mental weakness over it all just crushed him and he got worse and worse.
delete this
I’m not so sure about Iggy defensively at the NBA level. I already feel certain he’ll try hard, but I’m not so sure he’s going to be quick and fast enough to stay in front of top athletes. Hopefully I’ll be wrong. Maybe off the bench he’ll be fine.
i didn’t know we get to play another game…. we’re def not making top 8 but i guess we’re playing a consolation game…
Yes, it’s a good name. However, it’s kind of generic. As in, you could use that nickname for anyone who gets blocks. There’s nothing in there that’s specific to Mitch. For example, Gobert has Stifle Tower, which is a play on Eiffel Tower due to his French heritage. A great nickname would either reference Mitch’s name or something specific about him/his background.
Why?
It’s accurate.
When he came out he had a lot of skills that very few 7′ guys had at the time. He had excellent 3 point range before everyone else figured out how valuable that was and could also handle the ball. He more or less had a SF’s skill set in a 7′ body. His problem was that he had no real position on defense. The smaller guys were too quick and the bigger guys were too strong. He was physically too weak to be a big man in the NBA and mentally to weak to deal with criticism. He eventually broke down in both ways until he was useless.
Nicknames don’t need to be specific to a player. KP is the unicorn and that has nothing to do with his name, but fits him so perfectly. So Blockness Monster is good. You could definitely go with NORAD.
But if you’re looking for name specific, you can go off the missile defense systems. Mitchell kinda sounds like missile. Anti-air Mitchell. Heatseeking Mitchell.
Or go simple with the Mitch Slap.
(IDK, nicknames are not my forte)
I just think it’s so odd that he’s sort of chosen “23 Savage” as his own nickname, right? That’s a terrible nickname. 21 Savage is not even an especially famous rapper (other than his deportation issues).
not today, satan!
Mitchell Defense System?
The mandate/ internal goal is to start the season giving the productive veteran signings decent run to see if you can get an offense to gel. This probably means Braz starts the year in G league unless he tears up preseason, which I am pretty fine with. Mitch starts. I think DSJ gets definite minutes behind Payton, even if DSJ struggles early. And the “French Prince” probably you give a little more run than whatever his performance merits just to see what you have. If the team is looking good by December you either make moves for the playoffs or sell high on the value that you’ve built into the 1yr contracts. If Knox doesn’t cut down on attempts per possession or get more efficient, I think he goes to the G league too, he’s still young and we have his rights for a while I think taking some lumps on the ego front would be good for him. At the same time I haven’t written him off, I think you have to take last year with a grain of salt, he was only allowed to play that way and put up those godawful numbers because him actively sucking and hurting the team was all star level tanking contribution. I think if he could be coached on why his decisions and performance resulted in bad outcomes, like a rookie in a non tanking functional offense would be, it is possible for him to put his skills to better use and be productive. But if that progress is not happening early in limited minutes then it should happen in the G league. If trades don’t come together and the veterans are underperforming or just not getting enough wins, then bring back the full youth movement, and let the tank roll on (or not if the kids make a miracle jump).
I think that forcing a nickname doesn’t work. Do you remember the pitiful attempts to bestow a nickname on Durant? Durantula (meh), his own choice The Servant (ridiculously misguided), Slim Reaper (actually good, never caught on). And what about the terribly cringy “Frankie Smokes” that Bill Simmons tried to mint?
The ones that stick are the serendipitous ones: Swaggy P. Muggsy. Penny. Mookie. Sir Charles. The majestic and immortal Sauce Castillo. Farfa (a weird, short story). Stop trying so hard. If Mitch is due for a nickname, he’ll get one. Otherwise, it’s Mitch and it’s good like that.
I think we need to do better on a nickname for Mitch.
I have always wanted something that suggests missile defense. Not sure NORAD works and Star Wars has another meaning, Aegis and THAAD don’t work.
Skynet
The first rule of nicknames is, you can’t choose your own nickname. George Costanza (“T-Bone”) and Kevin Durant (“The Servant”) proved this beyond doubt.
I like Mitch Lob for Robinson. It’s short, descriptive, and specific to him.
The MSG audio folks should also play a snippet of Simon & Garfunkle’s “Mrs Robinson” every time he makes a huge play. And here’s to you, Mitchell Robinson, Jesus loves you more than you will know…
McDermott / Iggy = laziest player comparison ever. Other than being white, there is no comparison to be made when you look at their games. Come on man, this is (current year). It’s like comparing Knox to Grant Hill.
You are an extremely bright guy with a very good understanding of numbers. Eventually you’ll learn enough about basketball to see beyond the publicly available and popular models when appropriate.
Signed,
Beelzebub
🙂
Guys, guys, guys. Blockness Monster is AWESOME. I am stunned anyone would suggest otherwise.
Too close to being unwoke
@alsep Blockness Monster is great for like Clyde to sprinkle into a broadcast to spice up commentary on a Mitch block but it’s kinda long and clunky for an everyday nickname. To me it almost rolls off the tongue but not quite. Beta Blocker I like a lot but it’s a bit of a thinker and not quite there either.
For Mitch: How about the Cajun Clapback? or OOFman?
Just spitballing…
. Do you remember the pitiful attempts to bestow a nickname on Durant? Durantula (meh), his own choice The Servant (ridiculously misguided),
I think he misspelled Savant.
Ha does writing it Bloch Ness Monster help? What if we just call him Nessie and never explain why?
Cajun Clapback?
Sounds like an STD you’d pick up in NOLA
I should add that another big man we know is going to have to deal with some of the same issues.
The difference is that KP is taller, longer, a little more athletic and not soft mentally. He’s not afraid to take a lot of contact on offense and defense. He’s just too weak to deal with it. He gets pushed around on both ends by stronger and even smaller guys, which is partially why he doesn’t rebound or finish as well as someone his size, length, and skill should.
If you look through the archives, on the nights that KP was playing soft I was calling him Barzingis and Porgnani.
He’s either going to get a lot stronger and better, go soft because he’s afraid of getting injured (as be mediocre), or remain too weak and keep getting hurt until his game declines.
Skynet feels like it should be taken. Like it a lot.
Sex sells?
Kevlar. He stops shots.
Peacekeeper
Ghandi
Silencer
Old school (no three pointers)
1978, the year before the NBA allowed three pointers.
Mitchion (mission) Impossible (AKA helping the Knicks defense)
Anti-vaxx (no shots).
Mitch-match, cuz he has no mismatches
Volatile Mitchure
Mitchellin Star
Mitches and hoes
Mitches n free throws
Rolling Mitch (mist)
Mitchchondria, powerhouse of the cell
Bargnani sucked from day one, and sucked without cessation pretty much every second he was on an NBA court. Center who can’t rebound and has a shitty eFG%, and is the worst help defender possibly in NBA history? Such a bad help defender that he is the generator of countless GIFs documenting his shitty help defense? Such a bad rebounder that he is the gold standard for all soft-ass, shitty rebounders?
Yeah, sign me up for that guy! The East is big, man.
I like 2for18’s Skynet.
But Farfa is right about the difficulty of finding a nickname, I think it has to come naturally and maybe Mitch hasn’t earned it yet.
Did anyone ever call Mutombo Dr. No? Could have been perfect for him wagging his finger after each block.
What if instead of a nickname, we just say every time he blocks a shot, “_____ got Mitch Slapped.”
“Did you see LeBron got Mitch Slapped?”
“Did you see that Mitch Slap he put on Zion??”
Sorry if this has been suggested already.
Mount Mutombo was one for him I think, and a good one at that. Alliteration always helps.
The Whomping Willow.
Mitch Slap = too derogatory in nature. I like OOFman because that’s the reaction he creates from opposing fans. Mutombo was Mt. Mutombo, right?
Re: Bargnani, he was terrible, but Frank and Knox haven’t even come close to Bargnani air yet, although Bargs entered the league at 21 and carried more expectations as a higher pick. We could have two major draft failures on our hands with those two.
Just saw that Early Bird suggested Mitch Slap up at #56. Sorry about that.
I think DS got it right in #59: Mitchell Defense System. I can even see it on one of those old school Nike type posters.
These are some great suggestions.
For me, Skynet is a clear winner with Mitchell Defense System a strong second place. Skynet is actually really really good and I also can’t believe it’s never been used. Coming from the future to block your threes.
I also agree about not forcing a nickname but it’s summer and what the hell else is there to do other than moan and complain…
Mambalaya works for RJ/Mitch pick and rolls.
Skynet is cool, but I don’t think the kids today (like Mitch) care about Terminator. But yeah, it would’ve been a cool 80’s nickname on a Nike poster.
Blockula?
+1 to Skynet
Skynet also works because Mitch is the successor in interest to our own T-1000. It holds together.
But occasionally I can see referring to the Mitchell Defense System if the defense as a whole, anchored by Mitch, gets a stop.
The Block Hole
To quote Charles Barkley…. these are turible nicknames…… you can’t force a nickname like you can’t hurry love.
Nessie is good.
huh
I like calling the blocks Mitch Slaps.
What did the five fingers say to the ball?
MITCH SLAP!
If you’re a subscriber , Vorkunov has a more detailed breakdown of how DSJ is remaking his shot.
Interesting findings that DRAYMOND isn’t just noise
Kostya uses 3 year LA-dRAPM and 3 years of DRAYMOND(DRMD). Very interesting stuff.
Too close to being unwoke
huh
Come on man. You know that’s something Ta-Nehisi Coates would say in one of his stories.
As the wrinkled old white woman looked contemptuously upon the black bodies of my spawn, I felt the blackness monster rise up within my soul as I struggled to maintain my dignity
Be patient with our rookies.
Knoxx could be Giannis.
RJ could be Penny.
Lets developed them. They have the tools to be great
Too concern with Rjs shooting?
Even the great MJ and LBJ cant shoot during the first few years in the league.
In total honesty– I have no idea what you’re talking about. How is Block Ness Monster “unwoke?” Because “Block Ness” is close in sound to “Blackness?”
Ooh, wait ’til strat gets a hold of that one
Shams moves it from rumor to reality:
Sorry Cock I guess it was a bad attempt at a woke joke.
Here’s the relevant Coates nugget:
He writes about a moment from when Samori was young. They had gone to see a show on the Upper West Side and were coming down an escalator. A white woman pushed Samori and told him to hurry up. Coates turned to her in fury and issued some choice words. The woman was shocked and another white man defended her. The man moved close to Coates and he pushed him away. Other white people gathered and someone said they could get him arrested. Shaken, he noticed his son standing there watching the whole thing.
At home he felt the extent of his shame and rage. He knew he had forgotten he was in the white world.
Sounds like bullock gets the room exception once his medicals are sorted.
That’s all our cap space and roster spots used up.
Anyone care to guess the rotation now? Randle definitely starts. Mitch should start, but I don’t automatically trust that to happen. Beyond that?
I think it’s Payton, RJ, Knox, Randle, Mitch.
How do you start Kevin Knox over Marcus Morris, who is essentially the tough two-way veteran version of Kevin Knox?
Vorkunov suggested DSJ, RJ, Morris, Randle & Mitch. That works for me.
Payton, rj, Iggy, Randle, Morris ?
If you’re starting Marcus Morris, Julius Randle, and Mitchell Robinson you might have a decent chance at the 8th seed in the Eastern Conference. If Dennis Smith Jr takes a real leap (and I think it’s a coin flip on that) you might push for a 7 seed.
It would be such a shame if the Knicks spent $70M in cap space to miss the playoffs.
We could surprise this year. If we make the 8th seed, would it be an A summer?
I think it looks something like DSJ, RJ, Morris, Randle & Mitch. Not super keen with Morris at the 3, but given how many 4’s we have on the roster I am not sure there is room to play him there as well.
DSJ and Payton feels like that could be a coin toss, so training camp will be interesting. We are going to find out a lot about Fiz with this roster.
If Marcus Morris gets starters minutes on this team then we might as well just forget about this team until Dolan dies.
Morris is, what, the third best player on this roster after Mitch and Randle? Maybe the fourth if a kid makes a leap?
@99 heavencent I read that like it was a prayer for a funeral mass
there’s nothing wrong with Morris. But he shouldn’t be getting minutes over Knox and Iggy. It’s pointless.
Do the Rockets understand Russ can’t shoot?
okay this is weird
Okay I know Chris Paul is like 3 years older than Russ but he’s a better player on both ends of the floor. Darryl Morey seems to be throwing shit at a wall these days. Maybe Presti flips CP3 to Miami now?
PG-Randle
Wing-Knox
Wing-Morris
PF-Portis
C-Mitch
let’s fucking go
Holy fuck! Out of all the crazy shit this offseason, this is BY FAR the craziest.
Do the Thunder now have, like, 80 first round picks over the next seven years?
Presti 2020
I thought the Rockets were a sneaky favorite to make the finals next season but now I don’t know what to think
cp3 doesn’t have the disposition to wait in line at an atm so i don’t see him as a mentor on a bad team. wonder what happens to him.
Per Woj, apparently. I think Paul is better but older, but somehow Houston had to trade him and the early rumors of Rocket’s dissension were true
I don’t know if Miami can make the salaries work (like, I actually don’t know), but I cannot see Chris Paul staying on that team. He’d murder someone by Dec. 1.
You have to wonder what the future supermax players are going to think about NTCs after seeing how this offseason played out. I don’t think there’s a GM left in the league who’d give one with an NTC, but man, you’d think that Giannis is going to enter his negotiation with that in mind.
That is a nice haul for OKC. Gotta think they flip CP3 to another contending team. I have been so-so on Pretsi since he butchered the Harden situation, but that is a nice war chest he has accumulated.
CP3-SGA-Gallo-Noel-Adams is not a bad team. Maybe swap in Roberson for Noel? I mean that’s a shitload better than the Knicks until Gallo and Paul get hurt.
Yay marginal wins
Good point. It could be OKC will be competitive and have tons of draft picks.
Russ and harden didn’t work the first time what gives
CP3-SGA-Gallo-Noel-Adams is not a bad team. Maybe swap in Roberson for Noel? I mean that’s a shitload better than the Knicks until Gallo and Paul get hurt.
good point. it’s crazy they could trade for like 8 firsts and 4 swaps and still have a pretty good starting 5.
OKC is gonna need like 3 summer league teams every year
Granted KD was with them, but it worked pretty well when they were slated to be stealing chips of the Heatles. Wait and see I guess.
I wouldn’t be surprised if CP3/SGA/Gallo/Adams wins more games than Russ, Harden, PJ Tucker, and Clint Capela.
The Westbrook/CP3 trade makes total sense but it’ll will be amusing to watch how it works out. Harden and Westbrook is intriguing. Are they playing with two balls?
Houston’s offense is going to have to change because you can’t just run Harden spread Iso’s with Russ on the floor.
Ok, so this is unquestionably the craziest offseason ever. I don’t know what to think, if Westbrook can buy into the Rockets system it could work out pretty well for a couple of years until he regresses athletically, and OKC has an intriguing team with incredible amount of flexibility to work with so many picks.
@alsep do you mean third best big? I think Payton and DSJ outperform Morris this year. Was Morris confirmed?
I honestly don’t understand what Morey is doing, was the CP3/Harden relationship that broken? The Westbrook/Harden pairing doesn’t make much sense just based on playstyle but add in that Westbrook basically refuses to do anything on the court when the ball isn’t in his hands and he can’t shoot the fit makes even less sense. Feels like a lateral move at best for Houston.
1) the season you’re referring to was 2012 and they made the damn Finals
2) Harden was an offensive freak that year
3) Westbrook was 23, Harden 22
4) Westbrook won his MVP five seasons later
5) Harden won his MVP six season later
If Westbrook decides to focus on defense for the first time since 2013 this has a chance of working, but otherwise this feels like Tillman Fertita had something to do with this.
I hope James Dolan offers Sam Presti a lot of money if Mills and Perry don’t work out.
Rockets need to get players with negative USG, stat!
Another damn PF…OOF!
Meanwhile…I don’t understand trading CP3 for Westbrook. I get it if Presti is planning on flipping him before the season. I mean..he got a helluva haul for Westbrook, so that was great for the team. But if I’m CP3, I’m a little perturbed right now to say the least. And for Houston, it makes no sense at all. Zero.
Suddenly, I don’t feel so bad about Power Forward-palooza
15 first round picks and swap rights in 4 years for OKC after the Russ/CP3 deal. That is the definition of being asset rich.
Presti is stuck in a tough situation. I don’t think he can give away CP3 unless Milwaukee goes all in on a championship this year.
Presti certainly has enough picks to get rid of CP3 if he needs to
If Presti plans on using a lot of those picks on prospects, he’s staying. If you see a few megatrades from Presti, he’s going all-in and could be on the move after he sees the results. Either way, Presti turned a questionable-to-bad situation into an absurdly good one. Paul’s contract is still toxic but it simply doesn’t matter when you have that many picks.
So after signing Morris, we will have no room for any of the younger players to even get minutes. You figure all six of the signings will be in the rotation, plus a PG (probably Smith Jr.), Barrett (as the 3rd pick in the draft he will at least get some minutes), and Mitch (he’s our only center and best player). That’s nine players. That means Knox, Trier, Dotson, Brazdeikis, and Frank will all be competing for one spot in the rotation.
I am all for signing some veterans to push the young players and keep them accountable if they dog it on defense or don’t listen but now we can’t play our young players even if they earn it since we are not going to bench players we just signed. Add to this the rumor we might still sign Bullock for the room exemption and things get really silly.
How are we supposed to develop our youth if every spot in the rotation is written down in permanent marker? Even if Trier is better than Ellington or Knox is better than Portis we are not going to play them since it would look really bad to sign someone and them promptly glue them to the bench.
I really need to find a bookie who will take bets that Portis starts at center
There’s going to be a draft where Presti has 1/3 of the picks.
Crazy night in the NBA, wow. That Durant-D’Angelo Russell thing was quietly super bizarre too….
fuck, I’m on drugs, and, I’m on the wrong thread:
sorry to see summer league end…I kind of wish they’d do more tournament style events during the summer for the young players…
seems like it would benefit most concerned to get time on the court and tv…
shit, most of us crazy people tune in to the stuff….
just cuz I knew ya’ll couldn’t live without reading this shit (when is it my turn talk again :):
ditto to all the comments reference RJ’s strengths, weaknesses (so slooooooooooow) and areas he needs to work hard on non stop: shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot…
but, for a 19 year old – dude is seriously buffed…and, i’m a fan of his personality so far…lord knows it’ll get tested working for uncle jimmy d…
like iggy (did he have some other nickname in college?) – a lot…who knows for sure, but, seems like he might be able to find a spot out on the floor…15 guys on the roster though – who really knows what fiz will do…
i’m.so glad mitch is ours…I don’t know, honestly I’m not so hopeful to see a big improvement this year from either frank or knox…hoping to see progress from DSJ and trier…
no doubt there are going to be some head scratching rotations once the season begins…
like everyone – I can see mitch and RJ in the starting 5, but, if kevin is out there to start the year – something is very wrong…
@105
@106
Agree Morris over Knox but otherwise I agree.
Is Payton, RJ, Morris, Randle, Mitch better than Ntilikina, Hardaway, Burke, Thomas & Kanter?
That was the opening day starting 5 last season. I would say that every player on that 2019 is better than the 2018 counterpart. Maybe Robinson > Kanter?
Yeah this is looking like the 2019-2020 Knicks are going to be an extremely pointless team. There will be a couple of young kids struggling to get minutes while transitional veterans who won’t even be here for the long term get way too much burn. This is really not a very good plan.
I agree. That actually seems like a pretty balanced lineup.
I bet OKC is wishing it hadn’t traded Jerami Grant right about now…
Thing is, all those draft picks are amazing, but most will likely be toward the bottom of the first round, and you can’t fit that many players on the roster anyway, so of all weird things, he will need to be making trades where he consolidates those picks one way or the other.
Presti is seemingly a big believer in the idea that you should either be going for it all, or stockpiling every god damn asset you can get your hands on. He has his missteps but it’s pretty hard to argue with the results, especially operating out of that market.
I genuinely have no idea what exactly the impact on the Rockets will be, but it’s hard to see Westbrook having another .500 TS% season. If I had to issue an opinion one way or another, I’d say I think they’ll be better. That’s all you can really ask for when you’re on their place on the win curve.
Since we’re already all in on the “Phil Jackson without the dementia” offseason strategy, the Morris signing is fine. To be clear I hate the overall strategy, but Morris is a fine signing within its framework. It’s not impossible to see him being moved for a 1RP at the deadline, which is more than I can say about Bobby Portis (seriously what the hell was the point of that?).
I dunno, a lot of these picks are in the mid 2020s. If we’ve learned anything this offseason it’s that there is no point whatsoever in trying to project past two seasons or so. I bet they wind up with at least a few lottery picks.
@150
I don’t particularly like Fizdale but there’s no way he doesn’t start Robinson. He’s not stupid. It would be negligent team management to not have Mitch start next season and play every minute he can. I think he should probably max out at around 25-30 minutes at this point since he seems to get a bit winded but if he doesn’t start and play at least 25 minutes a game then everyone should be immediately fired.
Everyone should be immediately fired anyway
I can’t really argue against a mass firing. Burying Robinson on the bench would the worst possible outcome of this offseason and a logical end step to this absurd team management.
Maybe if we play our cards right we won’t have to play any of our young players.
When the Knicks had JarrettJack, Steve Mills must have loved him. He must have wished he could have a whole team of Jarrett Jacks, power forward versions!
I’m with Jowls. I think the plan is to start Portis at center. The FO wants to win games, and they probably value three point shooting way over what Mitch does.
I wonder if Knox, Izzy and Frank will all end up in the D-League?
First, it’s still unlikely that this team is good enough to make the playoffs (although I guess we’re to the point where you can’t even compare this team to last year’s team since they’ve added a completely new roster) and second, no, no it would not.
As a strict one-year deal, isn’t Morris quite valuable as an expiring?
It’s possible that he could be traded, yes. I don’t think he’ll be all that valuable because it is hard to match salaries unless they’re willing to take a bad contract back (which they’re clearly not willing to do), but it is at least possible he could be traded, which is a step up from the other guys they signed.
Nah I think Randle and Mitch start, Morris and Portis back up with solid minutes. I guess Knox has to start at the 3 then, and ideally DSJ and RJ start. I also think they kinda have to trade Frank now. But who will take him?
I’m just hoping the concentration of players in the west keeps Dallas out of the playoffs for a few years 🙂
Whatever these guys are doing, it’s completely incoherent. They’re chasing the #8 seed in an effort to win some sort of respectability, but with a bunch of guys on short-term deals who aren’t part of the long-term future. So the idea is that you make the team more palatable for the Kawhi Leonards/Giannises of tomorrow by jacking up the win total with an assortment of Marcus Morrises and Taj Gibsons, who will then just leave anyway. It’s really a bullshit strategy.
I’d be happier with a straight up tank, even with the flattened lotto odds.
What they are doing is shooting for the playoffs w a bunch of league average players in the East and telling the young guys to beat out the old guys and make the team better in order to see whether they actually can do that. In other words who are the young players that are good and can beat out these other vets and who suck. Keep the good ones. Lose the bad ones. Make more picks. See if you have young stars. Sign the best players you can w free agent $ from the short term vet contracts. Make the team better. That’s the plan. It’s not great. But it makes some sense.
Maybe we can trade all the young guys for Chris Paul and chase the 6th seed. Salaries should work.
It’s actually kind of the Strat plan w poor talent evaluation.
Maybe the Thunder will be surprisingly good and then waft a few picks our way in exchange for the indubitable services of the doughty Taj Gibson, the stalwart Marcus Morris and our very own yeoman Bobby Portis Jr, Esquire to cement their second round exit of the playoffs.
@170 But see that’s the thing. As the worst team in the league, we beat the lottery odds and got #3. Phoenix, Cleveland and Chicago dropped. Two 33-win teams got the top pick and #2, and a 37-win team got #4. Now, who’s to say that happens again next year, but for me the NBA proved its point this year about the flattened lottery odds.
So why not go for 30-something wins since we’re now in an era where that gives you a better chance to net you a top-4 pick or better? Instead of being near-historically bad, we can be something like Atlanta-bad: where the team is still a ways away but is plucky and can’t be completely slept on because they have a lot of youth that’s shown some promise and can beat a decent (not great) team on a good night.
My fiance really likes Trey Young. We ended up watching several Hawks games this year (on replay).
@174 so it’s February and they’re 10th seed chasing the 8 seed, why trade any of the players who brought them there for stinking future picks who can’t even play yet? Get with the program.
Cp3 to Milwaukee is a god fit move
Because if you stink, and you lose the lottery, you still get a pretty high pick. If you’re merely bad and not terrible, and you lose the lottery, you pick in the Ntilikina/Knox zone.
I do think the anti-tanking rules sort of worked, it makes less sense to tank now. But that doesn’t mean it makes sense to chase a #8 seed.
If the strategy was to sign a couple veterans to make the young players earn spots in the rotation it makes some sense, but we signed so many veterans that even if Knox and Trier and Iggy and Frank all come into training camp playing like bonafide stars they still cannot make it into the rotation because we have an obligation of sorts to at least have all the guys we signed in the rotation.
It would look really bad to lure away Morris and all these other veteran players with big contracts and then have them fall out of the rotation or even worse never be in it in the first place. Some of them are playing for their next contract. We have to play them and we have to play some of them, like Morris, big minutes. If we don’t we’re going to look bad.
I feel like we really painted ourselves into a corner. I would love to have had us sign Randle and Payton and maybe a backup center and then let that team try to win. If we succeed it’s with the young players if we don’t it’s a good pick. No downside. Plus we get to see the young guys with more minutes but on a team with some structure. Instead, we are going to be frustrated with the rotation all season and we’re still not going to be that good.
So much for player development. Dolan must have gone nuts over KD and KI going to Brooklyn, which was my biggest fear.
@179 The thing about paying someone big money is you get to tell them what to do. If the kids are playing like bonafide stars in preseason then you give them run in real games and if they keep doing it then yeah you bench the vets. No one made them sign those contracts and they are short term enough that the players aren’t getting buried long term. They really aren’t big enough names for any issue they have to really resonate…
The rosy scenario of all the kids you mentioned outplaying the vets to start the season just isn’t at all within the realm of possible outcomes though. One out of those four you mentioned being rotation worthy would be a great outcome. Not at all guaranteed.
@180 GHenman
Not sure if you just tuned in, but even though the Knicks only announced their signings recently, but interest in these players (Randle, Payton, Gibson, Ellington, and Portis) had been reported from before free agency even officially opened. Maybe Dolan knew they were out on KD but I don’t think he knew anything about it for sure being BK. These moves are mostly on Perry/ Mills not JD, for better or worse.
I don’t like the idea of Portis starting at C with Randle at PF. But, given all the signings, that is the likely outcome. How in the hell will Fiz find minutes for MitchRob, Randle, Portis, Morris, and Gibson? I know Morris can play some 3 in a pinch, but we are not being honest with ourselves if we think he’s not primarily a stretch 4. We have 1 center. ONE. That is a recipe for disaster when it comes to MitchRob’s development. We need a RoLo or Tyson wayyyyy more than we need Portis, Gibson, and Morris collectively. As great a fit Morris is, I’m unhappy with this signing. I don’t see why we would bring Bullock in now, and I’m ok with that- Dot and Iggy need to play.
I also wouldn’t be surprised to see Trier or Dot start the season at SG1 to give Barrett time to build his confidence with the 2nd unit and have the ball in his hands more