Knicks Morning News (2017.04.25)

  • [NYTimes] Raptors Win Over Bucks Puts Them One Win Away From a Series Against the Cavs
    (Tuesday, April 25, 2017 3:50:39 AM)

    Norm Powell scored 25 points, Serge Ibaka 19 and DeMar DeRozan 18 for the Raptors, who can wrap up their first-round series on Thursday in Milwaukee.

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis’ independence putting pressure on Knicks
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 5:56:57 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis has decided to operate more independently these last few weeks, which isn’t a good sign for the Knicks.

  • [NYDN] Kristaps Porzingis didn’t tell Knicks he’d be playing for Latvia
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 12:54:49 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis didn’t care if the Knicks approved.

  • [NYDN] Derrick Rose admits what ‘sucked,’ what was ‘great’ about Knicks
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 7:30:44 AM)

    Derrick Rose didn’t enjoy the team’s failures during his lone season with the Knicks. But what about everything else?

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis is freezing out the Knicks from afar
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 7:38:22 AM)

    The cold war continues. In officially announcing his participation with Team Latvia this summer, Kristaps Porzingis revealed Monday he still has not spoken to Knicks officials since the season ended or gotten permission from the team on his decision to play in the European Championships. Speaking at a press conference in Liepaja, his hometown, and…

  • [NY Newsday] Kristaps Porzingis to play for Latvia in European Championships
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 3:47:54 PM)

    Kristaps Porzingis officially pledged his allegiance to the Latvian national team while revealing he hasn’t spoken to the Knicks since the season ended.

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis doesn’t ask Knicks’ permission to play for Latvia this summer
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 7:45:00 PM)

    Knicks forward Kristaps Porzingis announced he will play for the Latvian national team during this summer’s European championships, but did not clear it with the Knicks beforehand

  • [SNY Knicks] Porzingis: ‘I love New York’ but winning is most important
    (Monday, April 24, 2017 8:55:30 AM)

    Kristaps Porzingis loves New York, but made it clear that being in a situation that provides him a chance to win will be the most important factor when deciding whether or not to re-sign with the Knicks in two years.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    73 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.04.25)”

    1. Some folks may say KP is throwing a temper tantrum, but I say good for KP. He’s young and he knows what he wants on HIS team. And that’s the important thing to take away from this. Sure, being young is causing him to react “temper tantrum-like” while other vets handle it in a more calm, behind the scenes way. But this situation calls for neon lights. The dysfunction is flat out ridiculous. he’s been calling it out all season long, but it’s been going in one ear and right out of the other due to the dysfunctional vets that wield a bit too much power, and Phil. So, I don’t blame KP at all in this situation. He’s not mature enough to handle it maturely, but maybe..just maybe..someone in the organization will realize that things have gone terribly wrong and address it.

      Moving on to the rest of the roster. This offseason, it’s basically gonna come down to losing Melo or losing Rose..not both. One of them is staying. Most likely Melo. I just don’t see Phil getting a decent deal for him- unless Boston or the Clips get desperate. I’d love to see him traded to OKC or Charlotte, but I doubt he’d want to go to either place. If Phil manages to get a decent haul for Melo, he will deserve SOME- not alot lol- reprieve.

    2. I disagree, Totes, KP is part of the dysfunction. He has not earned the right to call it “his” team. He’s a promising young player, but is currently being outplayed by Willy and O’Quinn.

    3. It was nice to see semi-retired pig farmer Jose Calderon play well last night. I had no idea he was even on the Hawks.

    4. KP is out of control. The Knicks need to tell him to tone it down, and fine him for the exit meeting. Someone in this miserable organization needs to say enough is enough.

    5. Yeah I love KP but I think he’s a little out of line with all this talk (even if it is true) and I worry that Melo is getting in his ear about a coup against Phil, etc. I know Phil is super divisive here but I watched his press conference and his comments were taken WAY out of context regarding KP’s cheap shots and also how Melo shouldn’t be here anymore. What he said on both accounts is completely true and not out of line at all for a GM to say at an end of the season evaluation press conference. KP did force too many 3s. We all talked about it this season. Melo should leave. We all know this. Yet somehow Phil says it and twitter and the media go crazy and he’s being disrespectful? GMAFB!

      They need to trade Melo and move on. Sit him down and say “look if you don’t agree to a trade, we won’t start you next year.” Work with him to get him a decent trade somewhere he wants to go. It should not be THAT hard.

      I think once Melo is gone, KP will chill out. I think he kind of has blinders when it comes to Melo bc he really looks up to him and maybe Melo knows that a bit and is using KP?

    6. He has not earned the right to call it “his” team.

      You’ll get no argument from me on that point. He hasn’t. What I appreciate is the fact he realizes that he is the team’s most talented and promising player and he wants to use that cache to spur change so that he and the franchise can be great. I personally wouldn’t have skipped meetings and then dipped without warning- as well as not letting my employer know that I’m gonna be risking injury this summer by playing for Latvia. He knows that in the current environment, he’s not gonna be lauded by doing everything right at this point. He’s been a good soldier all season amidst the dysfunction, tried to spark change verbally and with his play (working on defense and rebounding during a slump and playing through injuries that he probably should have rested early)- but the team let him down by allowing the Rose situation and shitting on Melo. So, in his eyes, what’s the point of fighting the good fight when stepping back for a moment could- and should- open the team’s eyes? I can dig it. I don’t like how it makes him look selfish, but I can dig it.

    7. The team does need to reign him in. He’s still a kid and you don’t want those habits to start and then he really becomes selfish.

    8. IMO, if KP is the #1 option and defenses are game planning to stop him, our offense is going to be pretty bad when the secondary options are guys like Lee, Baker, WH etc… Of course if you want to be bad for another draft pick, that’s another story.

      If everyone is so against Rose for another year as a filler while our draft pick develops (totally understandable) then we need to come up with another scorer if Melo is also out. Otherwise we are going to win 25 games next year even if KP makes some progress as a player. As bad a Rose and Melo were this year, you need some scoring to compete nightly.

      You need scoring to outscore the other team, but Rose gives so much back on defense that I’m not sure his scoring helps.

      Also he’s going to get hurt again.

    9. I worry that Melo is getting in his ear about a coup against Phil, I think once Melo is gone, KP will chill out. I think he kind of has blinders when it comes to Melo bc he really looks up to him and maybe Melo knows that a bit and is using KP?

      See, i think this is super lazy and projecting. KP is very different than Melo. Just look at what we know to be true. Melo went to his exit meeting , KP did not. KP takes shots at the organization, Melo does not. The one thing i will agree with Stephen A Smith about , is that Melo is wayyyy to damn Melo. Even KP said it in that piece the other day. The guy is laid back as hell. KP seems to be way more aggressive in these political type things. Someone mentioned it yesterday, i think hes far more influenced by his older brothers than he is by Melo. He likes Melo, but i dont think he is necessarily influenced by him.

    10. I have no problem with KP playing for Latvia. I have a problem with him skipping the exit meetings, leaking various stuff to the press through a number of different outlets that add to the dysfunction while simultaneously complaining about the dysfunction and continuing to say stuff that adds to it through the press. Also KP skipped his exit meeting before the press conference so he didn’t take some stand against Phil Jackson’s words there, he was reacting to what happened before.

      In general I think our players since the final year of the Woodson era into the Phil era have become quick to blame everybody and everything else within tthe organization before looking at themselves. They didn’t collectively give a crap on defense the entire season regardless of what offensive system was being employed and KP and Melo in particular were terrible on the defensive glass, which is in large part an effort statistic.

      Phil’s the cook of this mess and shoulders the burden of what has been a failure thus far, but the players and coaches shouldn’t be absolved of blame either. They’re part of the reason the shit has been dysfunctional, not just victims of it.

    11. I actually like Phil’s non response to KP’s tempertantrum. Let him go to Latvia and cool off for a month. It was a frustrating season for everyone but KP especially. The team had higher expectations and so did he. He showed a big leap early on only to regress.

      Part of the problem right now is that there is no way for Phil or The Knicks to combat any of the negative news. He can’t make trades or draft players or sign any Free agents until draft night. So Phil just has to take the lumps for the next few months. But things will change (with the media narrative) on draft night.

    12. I actually like Phil’s non response to KP’s tempertantrum. Let him go to Latvia and cool off for a month. It was a frustrating season for everyone but KP especially. The team had higher expectations and so did he. He showed a big leap early on only to regress.

      Part of the problem right now is that there is no way for Phil or The Knicks to combat any of the negative news. He can’t make trades or draft players or sign any Free agents until draft night. So Phil just has to take the lumps for the next few months. But things will change (with the media narrative) on draft night.

      I agree.

    13. how is it super lazy when I say “I worry.” I don’t know it to be true. Its just my theory.

      I just laid out the reasons why. Its just convenient for alot of folks to lead EVERYTHING back to Melo. KP is an adult.

    14. I know this kind of happened a long time ago and it’s water under the bridge at this point, but I’m still disturbed at the way Phil and the Knicks handled Derrick Rose’s unexplained disappearance. The guy just disappears and can’t even be arsed to send a text sending where he is, everybody thinks he might be dead or something, and there he is, back on the floor for the next game. That is some of the most outrageously unprofessional behavior I’ve ever heard of from a pro athlete, and it was met by a shrug of the shoulders and a small token punishment.

      He should have been kicked off the team right then and there, or suspended for ten games or SOMETHING. It just says to me that Phil is pretty much half-assing this job. So when KP skips his post-season exit interview, he’s probably thinking hey, who gives a shit? Derrick Rose skipped a fucking GAME and didn’t even bother to tell anybody he wasn’t coming, and he suffered no consequences.

    15. The guy just disappears and can’t even be arsed to send a text sending where he is, everybody thinks he might be dead or something, and there he is, back on the floor for the next game. That is some of the most outrageously unprofessional behavior I’ve ever heard of from a pro athlete, and it was met by a shrug of the shoulders and a small token punishment.

      The thing is without knowing why Rose left we really can’t say. You’re probably right, but who knows

    16. Derrick Rose’s actions were so shitty and everything about it makes Phil Jackson look bad. Not only does his response look like shit, but Derrick Rose left because he couldn’t deal with the dysfunction either apparently. I really wonder what that locker room was like all season. Brandon Jennings, Derrick Rose, and Kristaps Porzingis all made their voices heard at some point this season. All of them underachieved, too, and that’s important to note.

      I think the issue with this team is basically Phil Jackson and Kurt Rambis vs pretty much everyone else.

    17. I think the issue with this team is basically Phil Jackson and Kurt Rambis vs pretty much everyone else.

      I think this is the reason why Rambis is never leaving–not because Phil wants someone from his coaching tree to implement the triangle, but because he literally has no other friends in the organization with the exception of *maybe* Steve Mills or Dolan.

    18. I hope someday soon we’ll be discussing Knicks playoff games at this time of year instead of missed exit interviews and Derrick Fucking Rose.

    19. The thing is without knowing why Rose left we really can’t say. You’re probably right, but who knows

      I naively believed there was no way a player, and a prominent one at that, would just skip a game because he didn’t feel right emotionally and not tell anyone. I kept waiting for the next shoe to drop, but it never did. Does Rose even claim there was something we don’t know about? I don’t think he does.

      Like JK47 said, It’s not unreasonable to draw a line between the Knicks not punishing Rose at all and the ensuing dysfunction. My guess is they were desperate to make a playoff push and falsely believed suspending Rose would impede that. It looked pathetic, and it was.

    20. There’s no excuse for Rose not even bothering to send a text. I’m trying to hypothetically think of something that could pass as a decent excuse, and I can’t come up with anything. If his situation was that dire that he was distraught to the point of not being able to contact his employer or teammates, then he shouldn’t have been back on the floor competing in an NBA game 48 hours later. He should have been getting psychiatric help.

    21. KP playing in the European championships just means he’ll run out of gas in late November rather than mid-December. He should seriously be doing nothing this summer but conditioning work. I still think he has a chance to be special but I’d consider trading him for a top 5 pick.

    22. I don’t think Derrick Rose wanted to be excused. I think he wanted to get away from the situation in New York and didn’t give a damn about how anybody in upper management felt about it.

    23. I think the “locker room” problem was almost entirely a function of which style we should play on both sides of the ball. Almost everything extended from there.

      I vaguely remember a period early in the season when a lot of people thought Jennings was the better PG. His minutes were pretty high, he was the more willing passer, played faster, and fit what they were doing with Hornacek on offense.

      I think that’s around the time when Rose went AWOL. He may have been pouting about Jennings.

      But Jennings wanted to play all P&R, was too prone to taking bad shots and TOs, and didn’t defend. He also wasn’t fitting into the triangle aspects. So they started switching up the offense a little and they diminished his role. That’s when he started pouting.

      There were similar issues on defense.

      When the defense was obviously under performing, they put Rambis in charge and he started changing the defensive schemes.

      Everything was in flux on both sides of the ball. That’s what KP is complaining about.

      IMO, that won’t be a problem going forward. Management realized you can’t go into a season without a clear path for how you are going to play offense and defense. So for better or worse it’s the triangle on offense and Rambis on defense with much more focus on stopping the P&R.

    24. I don’t envision Kurt Rambis suddenly discovering his inner competence. He’s a hack, and he only has this job because he makes a very good lickspittle. It’s pretty clear that the players have correctly identified Rambis as an incompetent douche.

    25. I don’t envision Kurt Rambis suddenly discovering his inner competence. He’s a hack, and he only has this job because he makes a very good lickspittle. It’s pretty clear that the players have correctly identified Rambis as an incompetent douche.

      That may all be true, but he’s our incompetent douche and he’s Phil’s eyes and ears into what’s actually going on in the locker room. So he’s not going anywhere.

      I’m not entirely convinced he’s incompetent anyway. He has a horrible coaching record, but he’s had some horrible teams to coach also. He did fine in LA both as a coach and defensive coach. He ran into some of the same problems we are running into now (and for example D’Antoni ran into after the Melo trade and in LA). If you are going to play a certain way, you need players that fit what you are trying to do and that want to play that way.

    26. Literally nobody could have fashioned a good defense playing Melo, Rose & Jennings heavy minutes. And I don’t think Courtney Lee is all that good either. But the team was obviously not happy with Rambis’ coaching, and getting players to buy in is part of coaching. I was as big a D’Antoni fan as anyone here, but when Melo stopped listening to him it was time for him to go. (obviously, if I was GM I would have moved Melo, but realistically that wasn’t happening)

    27. Literally nobody could have fashioned a good defense playing Melo, Rose & Jennings heavy minutes. And I don’t think Courtney Lee is all that good either. But the team was obviously not happy with Rambis’ coaching, and getting players to buy in is part of coaching.

      I agree with this completely. The Knicks did not have the personnel to field a quality defensive team. Combine the poor personnel with an abrasive defensive coach that everybody tunes out, and that’s how you end up with a bottom 5 defense.

    28. I hope someday soon we’ll be discussing Knicks playoff games at this time of year instead of missed exit interviews and Derrick Fucking Rose.

      plus one million…

      ugh, we are the dregs of the nba…right in there with minny, the kings, nyets, process philly, the late great lake show…

      now that dolan is on the hook for another 24 million to phil…chances are very good we have at least another season and a half of this…

      oh well, at least it’ll be interesting to see if kp can stay healthy and really improve next season, as well as watching billy grow and our picks from this year’s draft…

    29. that’s how you end up with a bottom 5 defense.

      We were actually 6th from the bottom!

    30. KP playing in the European championships just means he’ll run out of gas in late November rather than mid-December.

      If a 22-year-old can’t play hard minutes in April and be ready for the start of the NBA season, he’s never going to be close to a decent NBA player or have an NBA player’s conditioning.

    31. If a 22-year-old can’t play hard minutes in April and be ready for the start of the NBA season, he’s never going to be close to a decent NBA player or have an NBA player’s conditioning.

      I think the European championships are in September- they finish up just before NBA training camps open. And I’m not sure KP is ever going to be physically able to play at a high level for an entire season. He apparently had a conditioning coach with him in Latvia last summer and it didn’t seem to make that big of a difference. I certainly think his conditioning can and probably will improve but it’s possible he’ll never get to the point where he can play 30+ minutes a night over an entire season without having physical issues.

    32. Sure, sure. I’m an idiot.

      Also, Spain (winners in 2015) played 9 games for the whole tournament The Latvian team played 7 games. Is this really an issue?

    33. Probably not- meaning I don’t think it’ll make a big difference in his conditioning one way or the other but for a guy who says all he wants to do is win and who clearly has struggled physically and had a history of minor nagging injuries thus far I think making sure you’re in the best possible shape heading into camp should be his top priority.

    34. the issue that i have with kp playing is the risk of him getting hurt… playing any type of competitive game is going to be an increase in injury risk… next year is a very important year for him…

    35. the issue that i have with kp playing is the risk of him getting hurt… playing any type of competitive game is going to be an increase in injury risk… next year is a very important year for him…

      yes, those same thoughts infiltrated their way into my mind…gotta shut em down…KP is gonna be just fine…just fine…although it would be very knick like for something bad to happen…the times they are a changing…slowly, very very slowly…

    36. Melo for Blake Griffin, who says no?

      he can pass and rebound better…not sure about the defensive comparison, although – hard to imagine many players being any worse than melo…

      the whole playing the pf position is a bit of an issue though…we’d need to move o’quinn for sure…

      less reliable to stay on the court…but, only has one more year left on his deal…

      let’s do it…

    37. I’d take Griffin if he could be immediately flipped to someone else. Just do a three way.

    38. Sure, sure. I’m an idiot.

      Don’t be too hard on yourself, especially now that we’re the same person…

    39. So KP has plenty of time to work on conditioning and play for Latvia this offseason. The issue isn’t how many games he plays in a year. It’s playing super heavy minutes back to back nights for weeks straight. That’s what burned him out.

    40. I don’t think KP’s conditioning is an issue. He’s a 21 year old project player with a .546 TS%/.507 eFG% on a 24.3% usage rate. He got worse at rebounding but was top 5 in blocks. He probably looked tired due to being disengaged offensively from time to time. KP is an elite NBA rim protector, he’s an average-above average scorer, and he’s a sub par rebounder. All he has to do is cut the fouls and grab 2 more boards and you have a star player. If he gets his TS% into the .600s as well you have an All-NBA level talent.

      In other words, he will be fine. You don’t give up on young guys because they aren’t elite yet.

    41. In other words, he will be fine. You don’t give up on young guys because they aren’t elite yet.

      I wish I could make this my sig.

    42. @45 I agree with you.

      I would only add that it seems to be easier for young players to cut down on TOs/personal fouls and improve their shot selection/shooting than it is to improve rebounding and blocks.

      It would not shock me if he had a couple of seasons with a TS% of .60% and improved next year to .57%-.58%. I’m worried about the rebounding though. Part of it is probably strength holding his position and banging inside. Some of is probably that he’s playing PF and is on the perimeter on both sides of the ball more often than if he was playing C. But some of it is “feel” and “aggressiveness”. He tends to stand around and defer a lot and other times everyone around him is intuitively or knowingly reacting faster once the shot goes up.

    43. KP was/is anemic. I’m sure the Knicks have the best doctors available to help keep it under control, but I suspect his stamina issues may be related to that tendency.

      http://www.postingandtoasting.com/2016/6/29/12061228/kristaps-porzingis-opens-up-about-his-struggles-with-anemia

      I have a hereditary condition commonly called Mediterranean anemia. When I was first diagnosed as a teenager the doctor said I would tend to get winded and tired faster than the average person. Fortunately my case turned out to be extremely mild. I wouldn’t even know I have it if a doctor didn’t tell me. But at the margin I do get winded a little faster than others.

    44. Do we remember when the Knicks used a headband to cover Jason Kidd’s cut? They do not have good doctors.

      I also think KP gets his rebounds up to 10-11 a game if he wants to. He’s tall, he has had good rebounding nights, and he’ll want to chase an MVP in a few seasons. After watching Russell Westbrook develop into a double digit rebounder, I’m sure that stat isn’t something that’s hard to improve. Just go get it, or if not, let Willy grab 14 a night and we’ll be fine.

      Once KP becomes a workout junkie he will be fine. I’m certain.

    45. Do we remember when the Knicks used a headband to cover Jason Kidd’s cut? They do not have good doctors.

      lmao

      Maybe he could try WebMd.

    46. I have to say that recent events have overturned an expectation of mine. I thought no Knick could make Rose look smart about women, but Carmelo actually managed this.

    47. I’m not a big fan of a Blake for Melo deal primarily because of Blake’s injury history. If we can’t get any relatively young rotation players or picks I’d do that deal just to move on from Melo (and because imo Blake is the better all around player), but I can’t say I would be happy about that deal.

    48. How do people feel about the Knicks trying to move up in this draft to make sure they maximize their chances of getting a long term elite PG that can start contributing this year?

      Maybe a deal with Boston could be worked out where we traded our pick and KOQ for their pick and trash or as part of a Melo deal.

    49. I would love to move up in the draft. I think chances of working out such a deal are slim, though, because high first round picks are very high priced in the trade market. I can’t think of a recent example where one has been traded. It’s really possible they are overpriced at the moment, but we probably wouldn’t trade ours either, and I wouldn’t want us to.

      I used to want to trade Melo for Griffin but now I am not so sure. But it depends on what happens with the rest of the team. As Stratomatic said, we need some scoring on the team besides Porzingis. Griffin would be better than not having any.

    50. To continue my previous thoughts, look at the Noel trade. He was selected 6th, and has probably played the way a 6th pick would be expected to on average. He was traded for a first round pick protected one to eighteen, Justin Anderson, and Andrew Bogut, who was waived. So basically the Sixers got a role player and a draft choice that will maybe provide a role player for the number six pick in the draft. Today, I think no one would trade a 6 pick in the upcoming draft for two role players who aren’t starters. But once the number 6 pick is actually picked, then they might make the trade a year or two later. This suggests picks are more valued than the actual players they turn into.

      Logically this says that if all the point guards we want are gone by the time we are picking, we should trade the pick for the Nerlens Noel of point guards, whoever that is, and probably get some other stuff along with it. But I don’t see that happening.

    51. The only player worth moving up for in my opinion is Lonzo Ball, and we have nothing to trade.

    52. Fox really can’t shoot. He couldn’t shoot 3’s, and inside the arc he sucked too. I don’t think you have to shoot to be a productive NBA point guard, but how many have their been in the last decade?

    53. I don’t think you have to shoot to be a productive NBA point guard, but how many have their been in the last decade?

      Rajon Rondo, Ricky Rubio, Russell Westbrook, John Wall, and Jason Kidd off the top of my head. Shooting is very important, but I don’t think the evidence that you need it from the point guard position specifically is convincing.

    54. I think we have more of a chance of moving up in the lottery than trading up, which is to say, we have no chance

    55. most college players struggle with the 3… and fox can hit a midrange shot … and his 3ball is more of a leg strength problem than anything… his form isn’t like mudiay’s or rondo’s…

      it’s much more important what you do inside the 3pt line than outside anyway.. how many top prospects have had inconsistent jumpers and either have it not matter or actually developed it? the list is pretty extensive…

    56. most college players struggle with the 3… and fox can hit a midrange shot

      Maybe he can hit a midrange shot, but he certainly didn’t last year.

      “He was a 24.6 percent three-point shooter on just under two attempts per game. Synergy Sports tracks him at 27.9 percent on all jump shots with an effective field goal percentage of 32 percent.”

      The sample size is small, but he shot like shit. He did still manage to hit over half his two point attempts, which suggests he was good at the rim and with non-jump shots (floaters or whatever), and like I said, you can be a good NBA guard who can’t shoot, but if you look at the guys facehumper mentioned, they’re not exactly common.

    57. tony parker, shaun livingston, andre miller, rod strickland, mark jackson, doc rivers, baron davis, kevin johnson, avery johnson all never really developed that 3pt shot but were good to very good in spite of it…

      then you have guys like magic, kidd, payton and conley who managed to develop their shot….

      there’s plenty of guys who suck that can’t hit a jumper… but guys like exum, dunn, mudiay or whoever are failing for way more other reasons than not being able to shoot….

    58. Guys with Fox’s skills tend not to be busts, as if you are super fast, can play defense and distribute the ball, you’ll have a career in the league (look at how long Bassy Telfair stayed in the league! And all he was was quick!). If you draft Fox, you have to do so knowing that that might be all he will turn out to be. Is that worth the #7 pick? Normally yes, but this might be a deep enough draft where there could be better options available at #7. It really depends on who gets picked ahead of the Knicks.

      And, of course, there’s always the chance that they move up to the top three!

    59. well… there are worse bets to take than betting on the guy who actually has the best ft%…. out of all the pgs being discussed…being able to shoot…

      it’s def a question mark… but everyone has question marks.. would you bet on someone figuring out how to drive to the basket/draw a foul or developing a 3pt shot.. the latter happens infinitely more often… and that’s actually the difference between ball and fox…

    60. I don’t think Fox has the court vision/feel for the game of someone like Wall (and certainly not like Kidd or Mark Jackson). That said, if you can explode towards the rim with your head up like he can you’re going to pick up a fair number of assists like MVP era Rose. I think, like Rose, he’ll need at least a 16 footer so guys can’t completely slump off of him but I don’t think a three point shot is a necessity. And if he does develop a jumper his ceiling is pretty high. It’ll be interesting to see how he shoots in workouts- if he really struggles I wouldn’t be surprised if he falls to 7-8 range with other options like Smith and Frank available.

    61. The Jazz/Clippers series really couldn’t be working out any more perfectly for a Melo deal.

    62. @55 – surely the reason picks are more highly valued before they are picked is because of the upside possibility they possess. The example of Noel is interesting. But flip it round – a mid second round pick can be bought for cash but try getting GS to give you Draymond for cash now. The point is a high lottery pick has at least a chance to present a franchise altering player. ‘Just’ the average 6th pick isn’t one of those, so when you pick Noel and get a clearer sense of what you’ve got, the value changes. Of course in this case the Sixers also handled it badly and sold low…

    63. @53, 54 et al – so the question is, would you do Melo and 7 for the top pick? Or Melo and 7 for the second or third pick if it falls to the Lakers? I think that at least gets you a discussion. Melo and the rights to a 7 pick for the rights to a 1 pick can be done on 1 July if the celtics renounce their FAs without any other players being involved – we get #1 and $25m in space. Who the players are that are picked can be agreed on the night, it’s just that the deal can’t be finalised for a week.

      I’d do it. Would Boston?

    64. “I would only add that it seems to be easier for young players to cut down on TOs/personal fouls and improve their shot selection/shooting than it is to improve rebounding and blocks.”

      KP rebounds extremely well for a small forward which is essentially the way the Knicks deploy him :-)

    65. I agree, picks are valued because of their upside. And I value them for that too. They still can be overpriced though. The Draymond example is interesting. But he is considered a superstar and everyone wants one of those, so almost nobody trades them. The upside of picks is that everyone wants is that you might get a superstar. People don’t trade picks because they feel a superstar is essential. Top draft picks are then like Mar a Lago memberships, there is no substitute. This seems to have affected mid round picks too, and made them overvalued

    66. @53, 54 et al – so the question is, would you do Melo and 7 for the top pick? Or Melo and 7 for the second or third pick if it falls to the Lakers? I think that at least gets you a discussion. Melo and the rights to a 7 pick for the rights to a 1 pick can be done on 1 July if the celtics renounce their FAs without any other players being involved – we get #1 and $25m in space. Who the players are that are picked can be agreed on the night, it’s just that the deal can’t be finalised for a week.

      I’d do it. Would Boston?

      I’d do it, as well, but I don’t think Boston would. They didn’t want to part with the POSSIBILITY of #1 for Paul George, ya know? They’re not going to deal the ACTUAL #1 for Melo, even with the #7 pick attached. It’d be close, though. That’s a very tempting offer.

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