Knicks Morning News (2017.01.28)

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony says daily trade rumors, media reports can be ‘mentally draining’
    (Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:42:15 AM)

    Not all that long ago, Carmelo Anthony was the king of the New York basketball world. He was a perennial All-Star, the centerpiece of the Knicks’ most recent rebuild and one of three players in the NBA with an ironclad no-trade clause.

  • [NY Newsday] Carmelo Anthony, Kristaps Porzingis lead Knicks past Hornets
    (Saturday, January 28, 2017 12:03:28 AM)

  • [SNY Knicks] Strong fourth quarter propels Knicks to win over Hornets
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 10:07:44 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony shook off some boos and a rough shooting night to score 18 points, Courtney Lee added 16 against his former team and the New York Knicks beat the Charlotte Hornets 110-107 on Friday night.

  • [SNY Knicks] Rose ankle sprain not major, but status uncertain
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 11:33:21 PM)

    Knicks guard Derrick Rose left Friday’s game against the Hornets with a sprained left ankle and will not return to the game, the team announced.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks ‘determined’ to trade Melo, have talked with Clippers about adding third team to possible deal
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 6:33:56 PM)

    The Knicks and Clippers are looking for a third team to keep open the possibility of a trade involving Carmelo Anthony, according to Ramona Shelburne and Marc Stein of ESPN.

  • [SNY Knicks] Lance Thomas still about a week away from playing
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 6:43:40 PM)

    Lance Thomas just started conditioning and remains about a week away from a return, head coach Jeff Hornacek said Friday, according to Marc Berman of the New York Post.

  • [SNY Knicks] Tonight’s Game: Knicks vs. Hornets
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 6:00:48 PM)

    The Knicks will play the Hornets at 7:30 p.m. at Madison Square Garden at 7:30 p.m.

  • [SNY Knicks] Can Knicks maintain order before and after potential Melo trade?
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 10:55:39 AM)

    The NBA trade deadline is less than a month away, which gives the Knicks a limited amount of time to explore and pull the trigger on a blockbuster deal involving Carmelo Anthony.

  • [SNY Knicks] Knicks assign Plumlee and Ndour to Westchester of the D-League
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 12:15:07 PM)

    The Knicks have assigned Marshall Plumlee and Maurice Ndour to Westchester of the D-League.

  • [SNY Knicks] Loud Mouths: How would a Melo trade impact the Knicks?
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 9:30:01 AM)

    Marc Malusis and Jon Hein debate the validity of the Carmelo Anthony trade rumors and what it would mean for the Knicks going forward.

  • [ESPN] Carmelo: Trade rumors, drama ‘mentally draining’
    (Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:25:13 AM)

    Carmelo: Trade rumors, drama ‘mentally draining’

  • [ESPN] Rose exits Knicks’ win with sprained left ankle
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 9:50:44 PM)

    Rose exits Knicks’ win with sprained left ankle

  • [ESPN] Room for 1: Kerr wants Warriors together at ASG
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 6:03:55 PM)

    Room for 1: Kerr wants Warriors together at ASG

  • [ESPN] Sources: Knicks, Clips seeking third trade partner
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 5:33:51 PM)

    Sources: Knicks, Clips seeking third trade partner

  • [NYDN] Phil Jackson needs to get a real return in trade for Anthony
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 8:42:27 PM)

    Phil Jackson is willing to deal Anthony without getting one of the Clippers top three players in return

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony hits dagger as Knicks wake up late, beat Hornets
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 8:42:03 PM)

    It wasn’t a consistent effort. But it was enough on this night.

  • [NYDN] Carmelo Anthony ‘disappointed’ over All-Star game snub
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 8:35:46 PM)

    The announcement stung for the Knicks star.

  • [NYDN] Knicks and Clippers seek third team for Carmelo Anthony deal
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 8:32:36 PM)

    The Carmelo Anthony trade saga drags on.

  • [NYDN] The 3 teams giving dysfunctional Knicks a run for their money
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 7:25:25 AM)

    As crazy as this will sound, is it possible that the Knicks might not be in the Top-3 most dysfunctional teams in basketball right now?

  • [NYDN] Celtics told Knicks they aren’t interested in Carmelo Anthony
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 6:09:05 AM)

    The Knicks are learning that the market for Carmelo Anthony is not very hot.

  • [NYTimes] Knicks 110, Hornets 107: Uncertainty Over Carmelo Anthony Upstages Knicks Victory
    (Saturday, January 28, 2017 3:53:17 AM)

    The Knicks defeated the Hornets, 110-107, at Madison Square Garden, but rumors about a trade involving Anthony claimed center stage.

  • [NYTimes] Keeping Score: Caps and Contracts Make Trading Carmelo Anthony a Tough Calculus
    (Saturday, January 28, 2017 2:29:32 AM)

    As speculation shifts to a potential deal with the Clippers, a look at the hurdles the Knicks would have to clear to trade their highly paid forward.

  • [NYTimes] Warriors vs. Eastern Conference? A Dream Matchup Will Approach Reality
    (Saturday, January 28, 2017 1:01:14 AM)

    Golden State Coach Steve Kerr said that Stephen Curry, Kevin Durant, Draymond Green and Klay Thompson will share the court at the All-Star Game.

  • [NYPost] Patrick Ewing knows the vortex Carmelo Anthony’s caught up in
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 10:24:15 PM)

    Patrick Ewing was back in the World’s Most Famous Arena on Friday night resuming his role as arguably the world’s most famous Knick. At age 54, he’s an assistant coach for the Hornets these days, but he might as well have been running for Mayor of New York with all the handshakes being exchanged a…

  • [NYPost] Kemba Walker’s path: From UConn champ to NBA All-Star
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 9:26:50 PM)

    Kemba Walker remembered his first day talking with Hornets coach Steve Clifford. Something stuck with him. “Since Day 1,” Walker said, “he’s told me that I can be an All-Star in this league and it’s up to me, the work I put into my game, things like that. “He was right.” Walker this week became…

  • [NYPost] Jeff Hornacek on Derrick Rose’s ankle: ‘It’s nothing major’
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 8:52:05 PM)

    The Knicks may have come out smelling like roses in beating the Hornets on Friday, but they had to finish the game without Derrick Rose. Rose hurt his left ankle after stepping on Kemba Walker’s foot. He departed with 4:19 left in the third quarter and never returned. Rose was not in the locker room…

  • [NYPost] Kristaps Porzingis wants ‘great leader’ Carmelo to stay
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 7:44:25 PM)

    The fans at the Garden who booed and jeered Friday night as Carmelo Anthony labored through a 1-of-6 shooting fourth quarter — though his one make was huge — no doubt want him on the first plane, train or automobile out of town. But there is at least one guy who maintains faith in Anthony…

  • [NYPost] Carmelo’s clutch bucket saves Knicks as trade talk swirls
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 5:19:41 PM)

    Carmelo Anthony struggled through a horrific shooting night amid some boos and some fans yelling “Trade Melo’’ Friday night during the national anthem at the Garden. While the Knicks rallied late behind emerging Courtney Lee and Brandon Jennings, when they needed the clinching bucket, Anthony made the shot. The embattled Anthony, who called the trade…

  • [NYPost] Doc Rivers: I’d trade my son, if Clippers-Knicks talks went there
    (Friday, January 27, 2017 1:06:16 PM)

    Clippers coach and general manager Doc Rivers removed one potential obstacle to his team trading for Carmelo Anthony, saying he would deal his son, Austin Rivers, if he had to. Rivers likely would be the centerpiece of an Anthony trade. Knicks president Phil Jackson, GM Steve Mills and coach Jeff Hornacek met with Austin Rivers,…

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    182 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2017.01.28)”

    1. So the Knicks and Clippers need a 3rd team involved because the Clippers are trying to fuck the Knicks over. They don’t wanna give up JJ Reddick (and probably not Austin Rivers either) so we need a 3rd team to take on Crawford’s contract because we want nothing to do with it.

      Yeah this trade ain’t happening. The audacity of the Clippers that they’re actually trying get Melo and lose essentially nobody. PJ says you can keep ALL of your Big 3 players and they say “yeah well we wanna keep Reddick too.” Chris Paul better get on the phone with Doc Rivers and tell him to get his head out of his ass. The Clippers are the one team where Melo makes a ton of sense and they wanna get cute? This is why they paid Jamal Crawford $42M, can’t get out of the 2nd round despite having an amazing foundation, and don’t even have an average 3 on the roster. It’s because they’re stupid. Phil Jackson has the answer to your woes on line one and all you can say is “Jamal Crawford is the best we can do, bro.” The nerve of some people.

    2. It’s close. Maybe..Hopefully (fingers, toes, and eyes crossed lol) this means Phil can get back a good draft pick in this year’s draft if the teams can find a 3rd team to trade with. But who?

    3. Relax, ya’ll. This is par for the course in a negotiation. Each side comes into the equation trying to get the maximum of what they can get and meet somewhere in the middle in a compromise. There’s still plenty time left and many other developments will happen in the between now and the deadline. Just try to take the roller coaster in stride, okay?

    4. I doubt the deal will include Redick. Heck, I doubt it will involve Rivers, even. It’d likely be Crawford, plus the two Johnsons. Then some sort of pick combination. That would be the key to the deal, what type of pick or picks that they get. I would like to get Redick, though. That would be nice, as he could be traded for another pick.

    5. With the Cavs squeaking by the Nets, here’s to wishful thinking that LeBron will get frustrated enough to say “GET ME MELO!”, and Phil can flip Love for a really nice haul. The Cavs really need size and rim protection, so O wouldn’t mind it at all if KOQ were to be thrown in such a deal

    6. I must say that its going to be fun watching KP and Willy play together in the years to come. Those two compliment each other nicely on offense, one as polished post scorer and the other as a shooter, and seem to pull for each other on the court. There should be some nice chemistry between the two, considering how back they go. Its a very rare thing to have two very promising players come up from the same program into your NBA team, but here they are ready to mature and evolve as NBA players together. KP will have to develop a consistent post game while Willy will have to expand his shooting range for them to show a versatile two man game together, but I think the foundations are there for that to happen down the road into their primes.

    7. So it looks like Phil offered Melo for Rivers and Redick. Clips didn’t want to give up Redick. Deal could then have been Rivers/Pierce/Wesley Johnson plus some pick(s) and/or Brice. But Crawford is involved which tells me either Clips don’t want to give up Rivers either or they just want to dump Crawford’s salary if they’re getting Melo (maybe to get higher mle this summer?).

      The original offer of Redick and the Crawford dump suggests this isn’t a rebuild so much as swapping Melo out for other players and cap space. Jax planned to maybe go over cap to sign 33yo Redick this summer and make huge offer to Hill/Teague/Jrue. Rivers would be the stop gap if nobody signs. The Melo trade would also help the tank for a higher pick.

      I just hope we’re not in the situation where we have to trade up Willy to nab Ntilikina or another PG. But I fear Jennings will be our Timmy this year and end up sinking the tanker at the very end.

    8. I doubt the deal will include Redick.

      I agree. Clippers must consider how much better they would be with this version of Melo minus Reddick and Rivers. Not enough to justify the complications and potential cost down the road.

    9. Jax planned to maybe go over cap to sign 33yo Redick this summer and make huge offer to Hill/Teague/Jrue.

      What?

      I just hope we’re not in the situation where we have to trade up Willy to nab Ntilikina or another PG. But I fear Jennings will be our Timmy this year and end up sinking the tanker at the very end.

      Which is why I ain’t mad about getting Crawford. He will surpass Rose as our LVP.

    10. Jax planned to maybe go over cap to sign 33yo Redick this summer and make huge offer to Hill/Teague/Jrue.

      What?

      Why would Phil want a 33yo in the trade if he’s doing a rebuild? And Phil’s desire not to carry Crawford’s salary for a year suggests he probably wants to use the cap to splurge on some free agent(s) this summer. There is an alternative explanation: It’s possible he hoped to involve 3rd team to take Redick and give us a young player or pick. And it might make some sense to dump Crawford to Nets or whoever in the trade when Clips might pony up a 2nd round pick to make it happen. I just think the scenario where he keeps Redick and attempts to sign a PG in free agency (Rivers as stop gap) would have been more probable.

    11. I’m betting that we sign Teodosic in the offseason for around $7mil per if we don’t land Jrue or Ricky.

    12. Why would Phil want a 33yo in the trade if he’s doing a rebuild?

      He’s a tradable commodity.

      And Phil’s desire not to carry Crawford’s salary for a year suggests he probably wants to use the cap to splurge on some free agent(s) this summer.

      Crawford is a waste of space, I can see why someone wouldn’t want him unless its to totally tank.

    13. Why would Phil want a 33yo in the trade if he’s doing a rebuild? And Phil’s desire not to carry Crawford’s salary for a year suggests he probably wants to use the cap to splurge on some free agent(s) this summer. There is an alternative explanation: It’s possible he hoped to involve 3rd team to take Redick and give us a young player or pick. And it might make some sense to dump Crawford to Nets or whoever in the trade when Clips might pony up a 2nd round pick to make it happen. I just think the scenario where he keeps Redick and attempts to sign a PG in free agency (Rivers as stop gap) would have been more probable.

      I think we’ll see the answer one way or the other by what deal/deals they get done. I agree that I wouldn’t completely rule out Jackson looking to retool still rather than rebuild. We shall see!

    14. Crawford is a waste of space, I can see why someone wouldn’t want him unless its to totally tank.

      Right, that was his point. If you want to tank, then you wouldn’t have a problem adding Crawford. That Phil doesn’t want Crawford suggests that he might not want to tank still. Might, of course. We shall see!

    15. That Crawford’s final year can be bought out for $3MM while his cap number is $14.5MM means it’s just a bad contract for next season. It’s a really nice trade chip for the summer of 2018.

      The big name players that changed teams last summer were getting their 3rd contract, this roster doesn’t need a player like that yet. I really wish Phil would just stay out of the free agent market for at least one offseason.

    16. I keep reading through the trade scenarios people on this forum are signing off on and I can’t help but shake my head.

      From the first day the rumors started that the Knicks were going to break up the young team Walsh and D’Antoni were putting together to get Melo I’ve been in a love hate relationship with this team. You see, I’m a fan since the late 60s. I saw the championships. I saw the “team” we had back then and how glorious it was to win playing the right way with players an entire city LOVED.

      It’s nothing personal. I don’t hate Melo. I hate the way he plays and don’t think he’s very good. There is no one on this forum that wants him out of NY more than I do so we can rebuild the right way with high IQ team oriented players that play both sides of the ball. But the right way does not include taking back different shit contracts for other terrible players (young or old). I have yet to see anything rumored that would interest me in the least. I’d rather keep him for the rest of the year and see what’s available in the summer than sign off on a shitty deal just to move him.

      Jamal Crawford? Total idiocy.
      Austin Rivers? Sucks!

      Give me a break. I don’t want Doc’s idiocy on my team.

      Get me some combination of a decent young player on fair contract, a decent pick, get me expiring contracts. I don’t care what the combination is. I don’t care if it’s all expiring contracts. But don’t give me crap players on large multi year bad contracts. It’s embarrassing to Knicks fans to even consider it. If Jackson does it he should be run out of town. For once try to win a trade. LA and CLE want Melo. Hold out for something good or do nothing.

    17. He’s a tradable commodity

      Redick’s WS/48 dropped from .154 to .113 this year and he’s gonna wanna be paid this summer. After we pay him, I doubt he’s gonna be that attractive to very many teams. Would any team give us a high draft pick or a promising young player for 18m/yr 33yo Redick in decline? Clippers are able to go over cap to re-sign him. I’m not sure but I think we’d have to flip him in the Clips trade for any team to have his bird rights. How tradable is Courtney Lee gonna be in 2 years when he’s Redick’s age? It would have to be something like Cavs/Korver trade where a top 5 team might want him.

    18. Getting back Austin Rivers, Brice Johnson, some expiring contracts, and some picks wouldn’t be a bad trade I don’t think. I want nothing to do with Crawford and Wesley Johnson, though. That would piss me off.

    19. Right, that was his point. If you want to tank, then you wouldn’t have a problem adding Crawford.

      Because there’s a difference between a tank and a rebuild. A tanking season is one where the team is outright losing to be rebuilt with new talent. Think the Spurs that season when David Robinson was injured and they lost enough games to get the #1 overall pick or the Sixers under Hinkie. A rebuilding season is one where a promising young team is losing with the intention of gaining experiencing and improving towards eventual contention in the future. Think the Timberwolves, Hornets, Sixers now, etc. I think Phil wants to rebuild ASAP. I don’t think he wants to tank away seasons with dreadful talent that will mire the team in the doldrums.

    20. The Clippers have no vision. They can’t give Blake and CP3 $200M a piece and then give Reddick another $80M. They need to move on from him now and take back Courtney Lee, who’s the affordable version of JJ Reddick.

    21. Redick’s WS/48 dropped from .154 to .113 this year and he’s gonna wanna be paid this summer.

      He could be traded to Minnesota for Rubio this deadline.

    22. I keep reading through the trade scenarios people on this forum are signing off on and I can’t help but shake my head.

      Welcome to the club!

      It seems the blog is in frenzy where all it matters is to compkete a trade. ANY trade, no matter how bad or crazy.

      That, coupled with the absurd belief that every other front office is stupid and Melo is a player “loved” by every real superstar, leads to all the craziness we have endured for a couple of days.

      Nobody seems to have a clear idea of what the strategy is behind trading Melo! Yes, they say “rebuild” and immediately point to a trade machine link where the Knicks get much worse players and contracts.

      Delusion.

    23. He could be traded to Minnesota for Rubio this deadline.

      Redick for Rubio would be terrific (though I doubt Wolves would do it) but it would have to be part of Clippers/NYK original deal. CBA prevents us from trading him a few days or weeks later even if it’s before the Feb 23rd deadline. But I’d be more than fine if Redick could be flipped for a useful player or pick as part of Clips deal but no way LA trades Redick unless Lee were in the deal. At this stage though, I think the simplest deal that could happen is Crawford/Pierce/W Johnson/Brice Johnson/2 picks for Melo. I wouldn’t do the trade for just one pick or just Brice. I guess ::sigh:: I’d do it for Brice and the 2021 pick but I’d prefer if Phil won a deal for a change and holds out for Brice and 2 picks. If I’m the Clips, I’d do it but I’d also want Holiday.

    24. The CBA only keeps you from packaging a player you just acquired with other players. They could still trade Redick for something straight up.

    25. Chris Paul, Courtney Lee, Carmelo Anthony, Blake Griffin, and DeAndre Jordan would have a shot at beating anyone. Doc needs to get it done already. Maybe the Cavs are crazy enough to take on Jamal Crawford as their “playmaker.”

    26. Can’t we hold out for the 2099 unprotected first? I believe it will be a good year.

    27. Didn’t get a chance to watch the game last night – were the boos directed at Melo as bad as twitter is making me think they were? I mean 8/26 deserves some boos no matter the situation imo.

    28. A team where Carmelo Anthony is the 4th best player on the roster? Name a team with a better fourth best player. You probably have the Warriors and the Cavs with Klay and Tristan Thompson. After that? Good luck. And Melo on the Clippers would be Olympic Good Shot Chart Melo so you might not even have an argument there.

      Doc Rivers needs to get his head out of his ass and make the damn deal. He’s not going to be able to re-sign JJ Reddick after giving CP3 and Blake Griffin max contracts, so holding up any deal over a free agent you’re going to lose is very very dumb. Make the trade because right now you’re 3rd class behind GSW, SAS, and HOU. Melo and Courtney Lee puts them right there with the Warriors.

    29. Do you guys think CP3 is going to put pressure on Doc to get a deal for Melo done? I think that’s a likely factor we shouldn’t ignore.

    30. Maybe the Cavs are crazy enough to take on Jamal Crawford as their “playmaker.”

      Is Crawford still super good at entry passes?

    31. So, if a deal with the Clips and Minny were worked out where the Knicks deal Melo and Lee in return for Rubio, the Clips 2021 first rounder, and salary junk including Crawford and Rivers, do you pull the trigger?

    32. @29 They were chanting trade Carmelo during the National anthem. Just a bunch of obnoxious assholes.

    33. The boos are a necessary evil. We are so close to moving Melo and allowing Hornacek to run the offense he’s always wanted to install. I noticed Rose started looking for KP more often last night. He’s getting the message that there’s a new sheriff in town.

    34. He’s not going to be able to re-sign JJ Reddick after giving CP3 and Blake Griffin max contracts,

      They’re able to re-sign all of them; the only issue is luxury tax but Ballmer’s got even deeper pockets than Prokhorov. But I agree with what you said that Clips need to act. Melo is only player available where they wouldn’t have to give up win now players and would catapult roster to same category as Cavs and GSW. We’d therefore have leverage in deal in terms of getting Brice and 2 unprotected picks and maybe even a swap. TRADE

      1: Paul/Rivers
      2: Redick/Holiday
      3: Melo/Mbah a Moute
      4: Griffin/Bass
      5: Jordan/Speights

    35. Do you guys think CP3 is going to put pressure on Doc to get a deal for Melo done? I think that’s a likely factor we shouldn’t ignore.

      Its probably our greatest source of leverage. I am sure he won’t be happy come free agency if his BFF Melo’s not on the team over difference between JJ Reddick and Jamal Crawford.

    36. Sports Illustrated has us picking Miles Bridges 11th in the 2017 draft one spot after the Kings pick Frank Ntilikina.

    37. Paul’s input won’t carry much weight because Clips know he’s not gonna walk away from extra $50M. But in general you do want to keep your stars like CP3 and Griffin happy so that might play into it a bit and I’m pretty sure none of them care about Brice or 2021 and 2023 picks and they would welcome Olympic Melo.

    38. This team is still only two games out of the eighth spot. Melo might still nix the trade anyways to stay with the team and fight for the last spot.

    39. Paul is a super type-A alpha. Don’t be fooled, that dude isn’t as mellow as Melo. It bugs him to no end that the Warriors, Cavs and Spurs are better than his team. He wants to win to get out of the second round for the first time in his career and will be very pissed if that doesn’t happen because Doc got cute on deal where Melo was available.

    40. So, if a deal with the Clips and Minny were worked out where the Knicks deal Melo and Lee in return for Rubio, the Clips 2021 first rounder, and salary junk including Crawford and Rivers, do you pull the trigger?

      Why wouldn’t Wolves just do a straight Lee for Rubio swap?

    41. @45

      We can still make it to 6th worse record if we commit to the Tank. Lets hope so.

    42. I hate to quit so I’d rather make a one for one deal for Rubio or Dragic (who has been going off). I do like trading Melo because that would make us better immediately. We’re getting a good player anyway in this draft without a tank.

    43. Why not keep Melo and go for CP3 in the offseason after he loses again?

      Its a possibility, but then there’s some added risk to the equation. Our tank chances decrease. What happens if Melo is injured or the Clippers actually go further than expected?

    44. And Phil’s desire not to carry Crawford’s salary for a year suggests he probably wants to use the cap to splurge on some free agent(s) this summer.

      I respectfully submit there is a better explanation… Phil doesn’t want salary back past this year so he can say to DolAN, ” LOOK… WE ARE GOING TO TANK FOR A YEAR OR TWO TO SET THE STAGE FOR 10 YEARS OF 50 WIN SEASONS BY AUCTIONING MELO AND WE ARE GOING TO REDUCE PAYROLL BY 20 MILLION FOR TH NEXT 2 YEARS”

    45. We’re getting a good player anyway in this draft without a tank.

      See, Reub, there’s the difference between you and me. You’re happy with just the opportunity to pick a good player in this great draft whereas I believe we should aim for the opportunity to pick a great player in a great draft. You’re merely happy with just “good enough” when I believe we should aim for the best possible outcome.

    46. Any trade with the Clippers will be in their favor, because Melo does not make them significantly better if the trade includes Reddick. So, they will need some incentive. Think Hernangomez, KoQ, Holiday and/or future draft picks.

      Hopefully, Jackson won’t bite – but he has been so inept, that’s always a possibility.

    47. Any trade with the Clippers will be in their favor, because Melo does not make them significantly better if the trade includes Reddick.

      Not if we add Lee.

    48. What if no trade occurs? How would that affect Melo and team chemistry?

      Melo has the power (NTC) to nix the whole thing. Not to mention, his current skillset-to-salary ratio makes him almost untradeable.

      This is real entertainment!

    49. This is Zen magic at work here. The team has a fire lit under it now and is coming together, playing better basketball. We will be a bear in the playoffs when we make them. Stay the course!

    50. Don’t think Melo gets traded now. He doesn’t seem like the type to leave his teammates while in the playoff hunt. We could still get something done in the offseason.

    51. Theo. . .what if-maybe, just maybe-Doc Rivers thinks differently than you do?

      Doc Rivers is in a position to actually win in life so he most certainly thinks differently than Theo. The question is whether or not Theo understands this basic point.

    52. Minnesota has no use for Lee–they have Lavine.

      They explicitly want a stop gap point guard in any trade for Rubio. That could be Jennings or Rose plus another piece.

    53. Theo. . .what if-maybe, just maybe-Doc Rivers thinks differently than you do?

      Maybe he does, maybe he doesn’t.

    54. Don’t think Melo gets traded now. He doesn’t seem like the type to leave his teammates while in the playoff hunt.

      BWAHAHAHAHA. George Karl and the 2010-11 Denver Nuggets would beg to differ with you.

    55. Minnesota has no use for Lee–they have Lavine.

      You mean Reddick, who we could package with Jennings or Rose.

    56. Some people here have a man-crush on me and devote 30 posts per day trying to engage me in debate – but they are too dumb and desperate for me to oblige.

      I like the adulation, though…lol

    57. LOL I love the passive aggressive Theo post. The one where you know he’s talking about you but won’t to say it directly because it reveals how butthurt he is.

    58. BWAHAHAHAHA. George Karl and the 2010-11 Denver Nuggets would beg to differ with you

      Point taken. Still the guy wants to be in NY and seems content with the team for better or worse.

      Ultimately its still up to him and I wouldn’t be surprised if he opted to stay as an FU to Jax.

    59. I dunno, playing for a franchise that doesn’t want you there, with the media hounding you and the fans booing the shit out of you (as they will if Melo refuses a decent trade and we keep sucking) would be stressful. Why not go to LA and make even more money?

    60. Ultimately its still up to him and I wouldn’t be surprised if he opted to stay as an FU to Jax.

      Really? Because to me he seems like someone who is emotionally beaten up and done talking about this whole mess to the NYC media, like he wants to put the whole experience of fighting with Phil behind him and move onto a less stressful working environment.

    61. I dunno, playing for a franchise that doesn’t want you there, with the media hounding you and the fans booing the shit out of you (as they will if Melo refuses a decent trade and we keep sucking) would be stressful. Why not go to LA and make even more money?

      Melo probably wants to leave – but it will cost the Knicks.

    62. Theo and Cronin — you guys are insane. There is absolutely no way that we have to give up assets to trade Melo. He is not a negative value player on his contract. Further, if you thought he was a negative value player we shouldn’t trade him. We should either play him to continue tanking or bench him if you think that furthers he tank.

    63. Really? Because to me he seems like someone who is emotionally beaten up and done talking about this whole mess to the NYC media, like he wants to put the whole experience of fighting with Phil behind him and move onto a less stressful working environment.

      Let’s hope you’re right.

    64. “Everywhere you go, even if you don’t hear it, somebody is telling you about it,” Anthony said. “Somebody is saying something. It can be mentally draining, mentally fatiguing.”

      Does this sound like someone who wants to field questions from the NYC media for the remaining season on being traded in the summer?

    65. I’m still not sure we want to deal Courtney Lee. His contract is decent, and after another year of free agents get paid, it will just be more decent-er.

      I just dont’ think anyone will give you value for Lee. I don’t see any way we get a 1 back for him. I guess the only hope is he’s Thibs kinda guy, and we can swing a deal with him and Rubio. But, we still have the Noah problem. I don’t think Rubio and Noah can play together…..2 guys who can’t shoot.

    66. Theo and Cronin — you guys are insane. There is absolutely no way that we have to give up assets to trade Melo. He is not a negative value player on his contract.

      I look at it as a matter of suppy and demand: the Clippers are the only team that would want Melo and Melo would approve of. That creates a big problem for the Knicks because they lack any leverage: either they accept the Clippers offer (whatever that might be) or they stay with the big problem Jackson has created by publicly attacking Melo and leaking all the info regarding trade attempts.

      Clippers, on the other hand, would not be much better with this version of Melo and without Reddick. So, they are not under that much pressure to take on a declining player with a nearly 30M hit on the cap. They see this more like a good opportunity to extract a good package from the Knicks (young players and/or draft picks), not as a shortcut to the NBA finals, because Melo is definitely not that good.

      That’s the way I look at it.

    67. Theo — we don’t have much leverage, but still there is not point of trading him if you have to give up assets. Just bench him.

    68. In order to consider supply and demand intelligently you have to estimate not just the quantity of demand but the quality as well. All a seller needs is one desperate bidder who has much to lose if a purchase isn’t made. Consider the 2011-12 NY Knicks when Melo was on the trade market. We ended up bidding against ourselves in the last hour. The Clippers are desperate too. We will just have to wait them out.

    69. Theo — we don’t have much leverage, but still there is not point of trading him if you have to give up assets. Just bench him.

      I agree 100%.

      In fact I have gone as far as saying the Knicks need to have a clear idea of what it is they are really trying to do beyond trading Melo. For the reasons you state.

    70. Sadly, if it weren’t for the NTC we’d already at least have one extra bidder for Melo:

      Oklahoma City is intrigued by the idea of trading for Carmelo Anthony. (h/t @AmicoHoops)— NBA Central (@TheNBACentral) January 27, 2017

    71. what would the purpose of benching him be? you want to trade him eventually…..benching him just makes that harder.

    72. @82: See, this is where I wish Melo would think in chess moves. If he were to leak – or let Phil leak – that he would consider waiving his NTC to play with Westbrook (he doesn’t have to mean it, just float it out there), then that can put more pressure on the Clips (or Cavs). If he’s really ok with going to LA, then work with Phil so the team can get a decent or good package for him.

    73. what would the purpose of benching him be? you want to trade him eventually…..benching him just makes that harder.

      A…. He doesn’t get injured
      B…. He may entertain being traded to more teams to get out of dodge city
      C…. The 15% trade salary bump may look a whole lot better to him if he is miserable.

    74. @83

      Brilliant point but I think Leon Rose is the main player behind the scenes, not Melo. He wants to make both his clients (Melo and CP3) happy. I am not sure he wants the Knicks to win out by giving them that kind of leverage.

    75. If he’s really ok with going to LA, then work with Phil so the team can get a decent or good package for him.

      Honestly, there’s virtually nothing Melo can do to make his grossly diminished skills and nearly 30M cap hit more attractive to other teams.

      Besides, Melo has never given any indication he will do anything other than what is absolutely best for him and his career while Phil Jackson has not given Melo any reason to care about the team or its fate post-trade.

    76. XRays were negative on DRose’s ankle. No evidence of passing chops showed up either.

    77. As much as I love this site (and have since 2008) it is becoming unreadable with the same regurgitated comments by the same few people every single damn day.

    78. As much as I love this site (and have since 2008) it is becoming unreadable with the same regurgitated comments by the same few people every single damn day.

      Yeah, I’m with you. Since the Knicks suck pretty much every year, this time of the season inspires the board to talk about all of the hypothetical blockbuster trades that the Trade Machine allows. I searched for a random thread from Feb. 2016 and got a post like, “Thanasis, Early for a 2nd round pick? Is it possible?”

      Theo and reub just make it all the more grating.

    79. Include Minnesota as the third team in the Clippers trade and pick up Rubio. Throw in KOQ or other filler and get back a draft pick or two. That would be my dream scenario. No thank you to Reddick as the main piece back, and the Clippers have nothing else attractive to offer that they’d be willing to part with.

    80. @93 So your deal is trading Melo to the Clips and Kyle to the Wolves while getting back Rubio and a number one a few years from now? I’d just do the Rubio part for Kyle and hold onto Melo if all we got back was a 2021 draft choice and filler

      Or better yet give the Wolves Noah if they’d bite..

    81. The Timberwolves want veteran leadership for their young roster. They’ll take Reddick back because he can show LaVine a couple things about how to play off the ball and how to commit on the defensive end and shit like that.

    82. I’m still 100% sure this team will make the worst of all possible situations, ending like one win away from the playoffs and getting the 13th pick.

      its getting late into the season already and frankly I can’t see Melo leaving now, and I can’t see Phil making an aggressive move either to win or lose more, so… even if Melo does ask to be traded the team performance will probably remain about the same and purgatory is probably still very likely.

      so yeah, it’s a pretty depressing situation anyway.

    83. Ultimately its still up to him and I wouldn’t be surprised if he opted to stay as an FU to Jax.

      Why would melo be so petty as to screw over a guy and a team that gave him everything he wanted?

    84. I once engaged in a debate on this site with someone who was saying that Toney Douglas was as good as or better than Joe Dumars, so it’s possible you’re glorifying the past. No offense to anyone here if that was you.

    85. I really would rather not see NYK make a trade. In my experience, the team gets worse when they trade people for others. In my experience, NYK drafts really well, actually. Then they trade those players for players who play worse and for a WAY shorter time frame. I mean, Trevor Ariza is a starter for the third team in the western conference. I know we’re gonna have to give up one of the young Euros or Ron to get someone to take Melo’s $. That’ll kill me. Enough to finally dump this, my favorite sports team since I was a kid. Keep Melo unless you’re able to win the way Ujiri did in 2011.

      Let Rose walk this summer. Sign another player or two with his #. Draft a good player.

      End the madness.

    86. @101 danvt, that makes good sense to me too. We can go after CP3, Jrue or Hill in the offseason or trade for Rubio (which I would do now). Teodosic will be available too. And we’ll draft at least one more stud by next season. There are many ways to build a champion for sure.

    87. What’s wrong with a trade for Channing Frye, Shumpert, and Richard Jefferson possibly with a pick or two? I assumed someone here posted this potential deal but a quick search revealed nothing…

      That package looks better to me than any of the LAC proposals. Contracts are more reasonable than Rivers’ and Crawford’s.

      I bet LeBron could leverage Gilbert/Griffin into doing it.

      Carmelo would have to be willing to live in Cleveland but you could argue that it would make him more relevant.

    88. I really would rather not see NYK make a trade. In my experience, the team gets worse when they trade people for others. In my experience, NYK drafts really well, actually. Then they trade those players for players who play worse and for a WAY shorter time frame. I mean, Trevor Ariza is a starter for the third team in the western conference. I know we’re gonna have to give up one of the young Euros or Ron to get someone to take Melo’s $. That’ll kill me. Enough to finally dump this, my favorite sports team since I was a kid. Keep Melo unless you’re able to win the way Ujiri did in 2011.

      Well “getting worse” in the short term would kind of be the point. It’s very difficult to see a situation in which trading Melo makes our long term future bleaker. If you think we draft well, why wouldn’t you want more draft picks? I agree that we shouldn’t surrender a single asset to dump Melo (barring a highly unlike situation in which doing so gets us the Brooklyn pick), but why wouldn’t you trade him for a pick?

    89. Did anyone notice that Wade and Butler were held out of the starting lineup last night as punishment for their recent comments? Jimmy Buckets only scored 3 pts for the evening. Rondo was fined too. It looks like the Bulls are coming apart.

    90. @96 , who goes where and for what exactly is to be worked out by the GM’s. I’m just saying if they’re trading Melo to the Clippers, I’d rather they invole Minnesota too and get back Rubio and some draft picks rather than the dreck LAC are offering.

    91. @98
      Cmon you, why do this to yourself? The team is doing what most of us want them to do which is get through to Melo that they can’t build a contender for him and that he needs to seek his ring elsewhere. So now they’re trying to work out a deal and you’re already fearing the absolute worse?

      There’s, what, 3-4 weeks until the trade deadline? Maybe you’re fearing a repeat of 6 years ago where Walsh tried to be patient and shrewd in getting Melo only to be overran by Dolan, and you think the Knicks will cave again, bc Knicks.

      I probably believe Phil has done a better job tham many here, but one thing I will say with 100% belief and certainty is that none of Jackson’s moves has been disastrous. That does not mean I think every move he’s made have been good or great. What it means, in a nutshell, is that the organization is in better shape today than it was a little less than 3 years ago when he took over.

      I know pessimism is an art form, especially for us who are New Yorkers (my gf, an LA gal, likes to remind me of this from time to time), but maybe – and hear me out on this – we can try to not expect the worst on this one? Maybe?

    92. Reading these comments here and in the media really incites me to anger. Phil’s finally trying to rebuild this team away from Melo and you’re all so negative about it. I just read one moron sports writer argue that KP should be the one who is traded before Melo. WTF is wrong with people? Why are they so invested in pushing these team towards mediocrity?

    93. but why wouldn’t you trade him for a pick?

      That’d be fine. I just don’t think it will happen. I think the K’s tend to get ripped off in trades. I don’t want a big contract for next year coming back. I don’t want to give up young Euros or even Oaq or Lee or Jennings. I like everyone on this team but Rose. I could see giving up on Noah. I can see trading Melo but only if we go all Masai Ujiri on someone.

      I’m tired of watching our young players blossom for other teams. Just don’t give away valuable assets or take on dead ones and I’m fine with it.

    94. There’s, what, 3-4 weeks until the trade deadline? Maybe you’re fearing a repeat of 6 years ago where Walsh tried to be patient and shrewd in getting Melo only to be overran by Dolan, and you think the Knicks will cave again, bc Knicks.

      Actually, Donnie came out and revealed that it was he who made that call to pull the trigger on that ridiculous deal for Melo. Dolan, it seems, did not force his hand on the matter.

      I probably believe Phil has done a better job tham many here, but one thing I will say with 100% belief and certainty is that none of Jackson’s moves has been disastrous. That does not mean I think every move he’s made have been good or great. What it means, in a nutshell, is that the organization is in better shape today than it was a little less than 3 years ago when he took over.

      100% Right on the money post.

    95. What it means, in a nutshell, is that the organization is in better shape today than it was a little less than 3 years ago when he took over.

      It’s in marginally better shape. It’s certainly not in GOOD shape. It’s still constructed like a win-now team that is not good enough to win now, but too good to result in high lottery picks. It’s basketball purgatory. This team is not on some stellar path. It’s a one-way train headed to Mediocrityville.

    96. I don’t want to give up young Euros or even Oaq or Lee or Jennings.

      I’m against any Melo trade that doesn’t bring back an asset, makes us send out assets, or both. I don’t care about Jennings and his expiring contract, and would love to send out Lee and his soon-to-be albatross, though…

    97. @108

      I agree with most of your points and I’m generally a pretty optimistic person, but the issue I have is that I don’t believe a Melo trade would move the needle either way: if he does get traded the team’s performance will most likely stay on a similar level and the Knicks will still waste a golden opportunity to add a potential superstar rookie guard on a super cheap contract.

      the damage has already been done, see? it’s probably already to late to get a top 6 pick and this team is definitely not good enough to get anything else more than an 8th seed and a trouncing in the playoffs.

      I could try to be optimistic and I’m genuinely excited about Porzingis’ and Hernangomez’ futures, but an opportunity to rebuild fast in such a strong draft doesn’t come often… let’s say Melo agrees to leave this team in the offseason and the Knicks suck completely next year while rebuilding… what are the odds that the 2018 draft class will bring us someone even close to the potential of Fultz / Ball or even Fox, Smith or Ntilikina? we have no idea… for all we know this could be the Anthony Bennett draft class once again.

      this, combined with the fact that Porzingis is about to reach a pivotal point in his development and the Knicks have pretty much only one piece that’s on a similar timeline than his development (Willy) makes it a fairly impossible situation for me to be optimistic about, I’m sorry.

    98. It’s in marginally better shape. It’s certainly not in GOOD shape.

      Its in waaaaaay better shape. We have our draft picks, we a have young budding star, we have a decent head coach and are on the cusp of getting something of value for Melo.

    99. it’s probably already to late to get a top 6 pick and this team is definitely not good enough to get anything else more than an 8th seed and a trouncing in the playoffs.

      No its not. We’re 3 games away from that spot. It can happen.

    100. @116

      I sure hope you are right man, but I think this is the point in the season where many teams will look to decide whether they’ll tank or try to compete.

      Chicago is self destructing, Brooklyn, Miami, Orlando, the Lakers, Phoenix and Dallas are all locks to be terrible, Sacramento, New Orleans, Detroit, Portland and Minnesota are all facing this decision…

    101. Actually, Miami, Dallas and Phoenix have been playing better. I agree though that the Lakers, Orlando and Brooklyn are pretty bad.

    102. http://www.netsdaily.com/2017/1/28/14424458/woj-players-agents-noticing-nets-culture

      Appearing on Boomer and Carton Friday, Woj said players and their agents are recognizing what’s going on with the Nets and compared it with the Knicks. “I talk to players around the league, agents, people. They like what’s in Brooklyn to send their guys to in the future. The coaching, the organization, everything around it. The Knicks still don’t have that. And it gets back to this: Whether Donnie Walsh is GM, who did a tremendous job, or whether it’s Phil Jackson, it will always be James Dolan’s culture there.”

      So, the “be mediocre and hope that attracts superstar free agents” strategy is probably not the best way to go.

    103. Wow, all of these FAs flocking to the Nets. Who knew? I mean its done so much for their great franchise.

    104. Fwiw Luka Donkic looks amazing and is gonna be a top draft pick next year. Worth tanking for.

      Most complete game I’ve seen in a player in while (Fultz-esque, though probably not at his overall level.)

    105. Donkic has a very mature game for a player so young. His high basketball IQ is very impressive. I wonder about his quickness and agility for the position though.

    106. Whether or not you want to call the NTC disastrous, it was still idiotic, moronic, and unnecessary. It means instead of shopping at 30 car dealerships looking for the best deal, we’re being bent over by the Clippers, being offered a couple of Pintos at caddy prices.

      Phil owns this roster; he’s acquired every player on this team, and the result is a 21-27 win now team. How anyone defend him is a mystery to me.

    107. This harping on the NTC is so tedious. I am sick of explaining the speculation under which it was offered because the myth that Phil offered it out of his own egoistic need to bid against himself has become reality among the fandom.

    108. As for feeling bad for melo, cry me a river. He created the situation he’s in, and has the power to change it at any time. He’s not some innocent bystander to his life.

    109. Duke is about to lose again after Coach K reamed them out, this time to an unranked Wake Forrest team. Grayson Allen, who isn’t playing a very good game, got called for another Technical. Man, did his stock freefall to Hell. I don’t even know if he’ll fetch a late first rounder in this draft now. Luke Kennard is hot though. Dude scored 31 points on 10-13 shooting, 5-5 3PT, and 6-10 FT with 4 Rebs and 4 Asts.

    110. Tank for a chance at Frank or win and grab Kennard? Decisions, decisions.

    111. Random stuff:

      > If Dolan decides to let Phil go, it’s possible he might believe it’s time to sign somebody like Ujiri or Nets’ Sean Marks since he’s tried everything else and it’s got the team nowhere.

      > We might have a bit of additional leverage on Clips to get this done because they could slip to 6th seed and end up playing Spurs or Rockets in 1st round. Melo could help stanch the bleeding in CP3’s absence.

      > Of course, we might want to wait til the deadline and hope Bron decides change is required. Is it possible Bron might pass on Melo because he hates Phil? I mean he did take that indirect shot at him recently calling Pop the best coach in NBA history.

    112. How about this “rebuild” strategy:

      1 Melo for Brice and 2 1sts
      2 Hold KOQ for possible tradeup in draft
      3 Lee/Jennings/Kuz (late first or bunch of 2nd round picks)
      4 Noah/Rose to Wolves if possible in trade for Rubio
      5 Automatic hard tank for rest of season putting us in play for a top PG prospect
      6 Trade KOQ for 2017 pick if not needed for draft tradeup
      7 Make some signings like Baker on favorable contracts
      8. Give our high 1st pick/Brice/any 1st or 2nd round picks plenty of time on court
      9 Possible high lottery pick in 2018 draft as our gaggle of youngins learn how to play
      10 Pick up a free agent(s) in summer of 2018 when all bad contracts expire

      So here’s what we’d have starting 2018-19 season if all works out:
      (1) KP
      (2) Willy
      (3) Ntilikina
      (4) Rubio
      (5) Brice Johnson
      (6) KOQ pick
      (7) 2018 high lottery pick
      (8) Gallinari? (free agent – Denver’s got Willy’s brother)
      (9) Whatever emerges from heap of 2nd round picks and hail mary signings
      (10) Two Clipper 1st round picks
      (11) All our picks

    113. Who cares how the NTC came about? Whether Phil offered it or melo demanded it makes no difference; it exists and it kills the team’s leverage.
      If Phil offered it, then that’s an idiotic decision. If melo demanded it and Phil caved, then it’s still an idiotic decision in lieu of just doing a sign and trade with the bulls.

    114. > If Dolan decides to let Phil go, it’s possible he might believe it’s time to sign somebody like Ujiri or Nets’ Sean Marks since he’s tried everything else and it’s got the team nowhere.

      Or he goes back to Isaiah.

      If melo demanded it and Phil caved, then it’s still an idiotic decision in lieu of just doing a sign and trade with the bulls.

      And get nothing in return? At least we’re getting something back because of the NTC.

    115. Why isn’t Kennard considered a lottery pick?

      He’s a sophmore who many didn’t see breaking out so big this season as Grayson Allen was the Duke guard the scouts were looking at. Also, despite his higher floor his ceiling is limited due to mediocre athleticism at the SG position.

    116. @130

      I love it, but how is step one happening unless the Knicks get Rivers + Crawford back?

    117. Part of me thinks holding out for the best possible deal is a no brainer, but the other part of me knows Melo hasn’t exactly been a paragon of durability these last few years. I’m kind of holding my breath every second he’s on the court. I’d probably be tempted to take the first acceptable deal that comes along. One unprotected first rounder gets it done for me, but who knows how Phil feels.

    118. “And get nothing in return? At least we’re getting something back because of the NTC.”

      That statement tells me all I need to know.

    119. And get nothing in return? At least we’re getting something back because of the NTC.

      Would we have gotten nothing with a sign and trade? We would have gotten way more than we will get with whatever trade we are lucky enough to get now. There is no way Melo would turn down all that money because he didn’t get a NTC. Especially if there was a sign and trade in the works.

    120. And get nothing in return? At least we’re getting something back because of the NTC.

      Melo’s rationale for wanting the NTC was that he wanted to stay in New York. I highly doubt he would’ve left the place he wanted to be because they couldn’t guarantee he would stay there. That doesn’t make any sense.

    121. It is really a shame that the only thing Monk can do is score because boy, can he score.

    122. how is step one happening unless the Knicks get Rivers + Crawford back?

      Check out post #37 in this thread where I give a link to the trade.

      If melo demanded it and Phil caved, then it’s still an idiotic decision in lieu of just doing a sign and trade with the bulls.

      And get nothing in return? At least we’re getting something back because of the NTC.

      Bulls would have to drop some key players to sign Melo directly. The S&T would have netted Melo more money (even tough it couldn’t include the 5th year) so he would have forced that. In terms of return to Knicks via S&T: a combination of Mirotic, Bulls 2 1st round picks and Butler were all possibilities.

      I’d probably be tempted to take the first acceptable deal that comes along. One unprotected first rounder gets it done for me, but who knows how Phil feels.

      I hear you but people have criticized Phil for losing deals because of just that. I have a hard time believing Clips wouldn’t eventually give up Brice/2 distant 1sts for Melo/Holiday. The odds favor it. If Clips balk, here’s where we might be able to enlist Melo’s help if he want to go to LA. Surely he doesn’t give a damn about Brice or 2021 and 2023. Let him allow us to open OKC talks to put some pressure on Clips.

    123. That statement tells me all I need to know.

      Good, because this statement confuses the fuck out of me.

      Would we have gotten nothing with a sign and trade? We would have gotten way more than we will get with whatever trade we are lucky enough to get now. There is no way Melo would turn down all that money because he didn’t get a NTC. Especially if there was a sign and trade in the works.

      Why would a team accept a sign and trade when they could have gotten Melo in free agency for free?

      Melo’s rationale for wanting the NTC was that he wanted to stay in New York. I highly doubt he would’ve left the place he wanted to be because they couldn’t guarantee he would stay there.

      This makes no sense. He would have definitely left if they couldn’t guarantee he’d stay there for the simple reason that if he was forced to leave he’d rather leave on his terms to a destination he wants to play in (like LA or Chicago) as opposed to whatever shithole Phil might have traded him to (Oklahoma or Utah for example).
      A sign and trade

    124. Why would a team accept a sign and trade when they could have gotten Melo in free agency for free?

      The argument hinges on the belief that Melo would not have signed anywhere else because we could give him more money. Based on Melo’s past, why would anyone believe he wouldn’t sign with us? Even if we could only offer the same amount of money as other teams, there was still a good chance he wanted to stay (him loving NY and all)! Teams would accept a sign and trade once Melo told them there is no way in hell he’s giving up all that money.

    125. Melo was not signing with Chicago outright. It was never going to happen. They were offering $50 million less. The only way that he was going to get the big contract was either to sign with the Knicks or be traded in a sign and trade. Phil Jackson had no interest in the latter and Melo had no interest in not getting the former.

      The Knicks could have easily received, at the very least, the two first rounders that the Bulls were actively dumping (one of which turned out to be Jurkic, for whatever it is worth) in a sign and trade (it would have been one of those “you make the picks for us” deals). That would be at the very least. There was a possibility of another asset, but at least they would have gotten the two first rounders that the Bulls were disinterested in keeping (they ended up trading them both for Doug freakin’ McDermott).

      Now had the Knicks just let Melo go for nothing (which, again, would never have actually have happened, as Melo wasn’t going to turn down an extra $50 million), while not the best possible scenario, how would they even be in that much of a worse scenario? They would have still tanked and gotten a Porzingis type in 2015, only this time they wouldn’t have added veterans in 2015 or 2016, so they’d be filled with low-level guys while looking at a top five pick this year and having no ugly multi-million dollar contracts on the books.

      They also likely would have handled the Chandler trade differently if they were ever willing to let Melo go. Plus the Shumpert deal would have been different. There would have been no desperate need to dump Felton and Smith if they weren’t looking to compete in the short term.

    126. ESPN is saying that we’re trying to work the Cavs into the deal with the Clippers for Melo. I could see them taking Crawford off of our hands possibly for Felder or a pick. They’re looking for a “facilitator”.

      Then we would end up with, say, Rivers (who is better than advertised and coming into his own), Brice Johnson, and one or two future picks. I would also include Courtney Lee for Reddick if that’s what is required. This is a scenario that I could live with. This is a good trade.

    127. lol no way Bulls were going to trade Jimmy Butler for Melo.

      and lol at anyone who thinks Austin Rivers is any sort of asset

    128. lol no way Bulls were going to trade Jimmy Butler for Melo.

      Oh yeah, that was never a possibility. The question back then was whether Mirotic or Taj Gibson were possibilities or not. The picks were readily available, but it’s unclear whether anything beyond the picks, Snell and Boozer (for cap purposes) were available. I tend to think that the picks, Snell and Boozer was the best that the Knicks were going to get, but Mirotic was at least a theoretical possibility.

    129. I feel like our best bet is to trade Melo in the offseason. But then that increases our wins this year which in turn hurts our draft odds.

    130. I would be overjoyed with getting let’s say, the Clippers 2021 and 2023 picks, so that makes me a bit hopeful about the trade rumors… I wouldn’t mind taking Crawford’s contract too since it’s clear cap space won’t matter much to the Knicks in a post-melo full rebuild anyway, and having him occupying the cap is a good way to insure no more Noah deals happen.

      the Clippers are just about to become shit again, specially if Paul leaves or heavily declines in the next couple of years, both pretty good possibilities, and they are still the Clippers and will promptly go back to being terrible after this present core is dismantled.

    131. As much as I love this site (and have since 2008) it is becoming unreadable with the same regurgitated comments by the same few people every single damn day.

      Yeah. If this site had a “block user” function, there would literally be 10 posts a day (at best) for me to read… Oh well. Some of the posters on here are quite insightful. More so than most of NYC rags.

    132. I feel like our best bet is to trade Melo in the offseason.

      Melo’s value drops precipitously if we wait to summer. Clips are win now team. Wait til summer and they lose Melo for this year’s playoffs when CP3 is at his peak.

      lol no way Bulls were going to trade Jimmy Butler for Melo.

      Oh yeah, that was never a possibility. The question back then was whether Mirotic or Taj Gibson were possibilities or not.

      No way Taj was ever gonna be included in a S&T. What people don’t remember is that Butler had a meh year and was gonna be a RFA the following summer. Many people here wrote they didn’t want Jimmy Butler in any deal. Don’t confuse the Butler of today with the Butler then.

      ESPN is saying that we’re trying to work the Cavs into the deal with the Clippers for Melo. They’re looking for a “facilitator”.

      Maybe something like this trade

    133. If we’re rebuilding and all, then wtf are we trading Melo for a package likely headlined by Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford? Shouldn’t we be looking for youth with upside and picks, not Liggins and Mcrae??

      I mean, what the hell do you people want in this trade???????

    134. “And get nothing in return? At least we’re getting something back because of the NTC.”

      That statement tells me all I need to know.

      I cut my losses short and don’t endure bizarre dialectical trips into absurdity….lol

      Totally ignore the irrational.

      Welcome to the club!

    135. If we’re rebuilding and all, then wtf are we trading Melo for a package likely headlined by Austin Rivers and Jamal Crawford? Shouldn’t we be looking for youth with upside and picks, not Liggins and Mcrae??
      I mean, what the hell do you people want in this trade???????

      We’d be getting Brice Johnson plus 2 1sts in the deal. The trade machine doesn’t allow you to include the picks. And I didn’t include Brice to show deal still could work without him. Just substitute Brice for Liggins and the deal goes through.

    136. What people don’t remember is that Butler had a meh year and was gonna be a RFA the following summer. Many people here wrote they didn’t want Jimmy Butler in any deal. Don’t confuse the Butler of today with the Butler then.

      He hadn’t taken the leap to stardom yet, that is true. And yes, there were questions as to whether the Bulls were interested in matching a possible huge offer from another team the following year as a RFA. But he was also clearly their “Win now” shooting guard at a time when they were trading for Melo to “Win now.” I agree that Gibson was unlikely to be involved. Heck, Mirotic was unlikely to even be available, but had a chance. Butler had no chance of being in the deal. This is not retroactive talk. Go back to the comments back then. This was all said then.

      And yes, you are correct to note that there were people back then who were like, “Butler is not as good as Melo.”

    137. I would be overjoyed with getting let’s say, the Clippers 2021 and 2023 picks, so that makes me a bit hopeful about the trade rumors… I wouldn’t mind taking Crawford’s contract too since it’s clear cap space won’t matter much to the Knicks in a post-melo full rebuild anyway, and having him occupying the cap is a good way to insure no more Noah deals happen.

      Agreed, I would be quite pleased with those two picks. However, the Clippers obviously know how valuable those two picks are (especially that 2023 pick) themselves, so we shall see.

    138. I mean, what the hell do you people want in this trade???????

      I don’t think there is much thinking by most posters beyond the “let’s trade Melo” mob frenzy. All possible scenarios are based on delusional, wishful thinking where the Knicks (not Melo or the other teams) have all the leverage and can thus magically get what they want. Only nobody seems to have a clear idea of what that is.

    139. If they get two first round picks from the Clippers, it’s a good deal no matter who else they get in the deal. But yes, we have no idea what Jackson is looking for specifically. Is he even looking to tank? We don’t know. We will find out by what trades are made (or not made). The Knicks’ leverage is obviously hurt by the terrible NTC, but the Clippers’ leverage is hurt by the impending free agency of Paul and Griffin (and Redick). The picks are extremely difficult to give up for L.A., but we shall see who cracks first. If there is even a trade at all.

    140. Chicago really wanted Melo. Offense was their problem. They had worked to set the S&T up by keeping Boozer’s large contract. There’s no way NYK should have accepted just Chicago’s two 2015 1st round picks. My guess is Knicks would have done Mirotic and 1 or 2 1sts but at the time Chicago may have coveted Mirotic more than Butler. So who knows how it would have gone. There were never any negotiations because Phil never opened any.

    141. Yeah, I think Mirotic and the two firsts was a real possibility, which would have been a very good trade for the Knicks. That’s what I was hoping for at the time. That would have really kickstarted the rebuild.

      And yes, Phil never wanted a sign and trade at all for whatever reason.

    142. If they get two first round picks from the Clippers, it’s a good deal no matter who else they get in the deal.

      To me that would be “par” for the trade (only one pick a bogey). If we include Holiday, we should get Brice and 2 1sts making it a “birdie”. Clips are at their ceiling. I don’t think they’re at risk of not re-signing CP3 given the new CBA and enormous amount of money CP3 would lose by leaving. But how do they improve to compete against GSW and Cavs this and the next two seasons as their players age. Are they gonna get more of a playoff-tested impact player than Melo for Brice and their 2021 1st? I don’t think so.

    143. I’m certainly not against trying to get Brice, I just don’t think he’s as much of an asset as the 2021 and 2023 picks. It is a bit unfortunate that the only value picks that they can get are years from now, but since they’re stuck with the NTC, this might be the best that they can get. And it’s not all that bad. Especially since it will hopefully lead to more picks being acquired by dealing Lee, KOQ, etc. But again, we really don’t know where Jackson’s head is at right now. We will find out soon enough, though!

    144. Also, not for nothing, but following the Nets’ situaiton, you’d have to think teams would be extremely hesitant to deal picks so far in advance, right?

    145. Every team in front of the Knicks will lose tonight. If the Knicks win tomorrow they will be alone in 9th place and 1.5 games out of 7th place in the east lol

    146. I know, it’s freaking insane, isn’t it? They’re six games under. 500!! The East is cuckoo bananas this year.

    147. it’s been what, more than a decade where the east has been dogshit?

      I honestly can’t remember when was the last time the east was considered the best conference, I think since Jordan? it’s always been very top heavy, with one or maybe two contenders and pretty much nothing from there on

    148. btw the Warriors are eviscerating the Clippers right now, 132 points with 5 left in the 4th… they need Melo!!!!!!!

    149. I caught some of the Clippers game tonight and one of the other announcers asked Mark Jackson what he would give up to get Melo if he could keep the Clipper’s big three. Jackson responded “Whatever they would want.” That was music to my ears.

    150. Losing to the Hawks is essential tomorrow for the Melo trade and tank purposes

    151. I bet we beat them. We’re doomed to win 37 games and keep this roster intact.

      If Ntilikina slips and we let Derrick Rose leave we could have something nice. Let Jennings go and take a chance on Tyreke Evans? We could start to look respectable.

    152. Tyreke is the second player most destined to become a Knick at one point in his career, after Rudy Gay.

      if this team beats Atlanta and the Clippers keep sucking it might be good for the potential trade… just have to hope Melo stays healthy to help us lose + showcase his ability to get pointzz to Doc.

    153. I like how Sam Amico had a report that the Thunder were very interested in Melo. Uhmmm…okay? So what? You have nothing to trade and he’ll never go there, so why even mention it?

    154. I don’t know if Melo would say yes, but the Mavericks, the Pacers, Sacramento and maybe Orlando seem like teams that would want him.

    155. He won’t say yes. We have one shot and its against the Clippers. Considering that they will be more and more desperate with each injury and loss I’d say that we could be able to get a couple of picks out of this.

    156. LOL, the Clippers are 2.5 games away from the seventh spot in the Western Conference and are without Chris Paul for until early March at the soonest. They’re looking a strong possibility of playing either the Spurs or Rockets as the away team in the first round of the playoffs. Now that’s leverage.

    157. Future Knicks players Rivers and Crawford were 5-18 combined in 68 minutes.

      Our tanking abilities will be greatly enhanced.

    158. The Thunder would probably be a great 3rd team to involve for some of their youth. If and when the Clippers decide to send Reddick, we could send them Kuz and O’Quinn (we’d win zero games after they leave) and get back their 1st round pick this year as well as Alex Abrines. No way they take back Jamal Crawford but getting rid of Melo, Lee, O’Quinn, and Kuz makes us the worst team in the league. Austin Rivers and Alex Abrines would be good youth to have and then we’d have two first round picks in the draft this year. If I’m OKC and I’m trying to keep Westbrook, Reddick, Kuz, and O’Quinn is a really nice package of players to put around him. Abrines and a late first round pick won’t hurt the cause too much.

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