Knicks Morning News (2016.07.12)

  • [New York Times] On Pro Basketball: A Long Goodbye for Tim Duncan? ‘That Wouldn’t Be Him’ (Tue, 12 Jul 2016 05:52:28 GMT)

    After 19 seasons of restrained brilliance and five championship rings, Duncan bade farewell in the only way befitting his career — with zero fanfare.

  • [New York Times] Spurs’ Tim Duncan Retires After 19 N.B.A. Seasons and 5 Titles (Tue, 12 Jul 2016 06:38:29 GMT)

    Duncan, 40, who played his entire career with San Antonio, won five N.B.A. championships and retires as one of the game’s greatest players.

  • [New York Times] Sports of The Times: Before Vast Riches, Free Agency’s Focus Was Freedom (Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:21:41 GMT)

    A settlement from a 1970 lawsuit filed by Oscar Robertson led to the easy movement and lavish salaries that are now commonplace in the N.B.A.

  • [New York Times] Duncan’s Retirement the Latest in a Summer Full of Goodbyes (Tue, 12 Jul 2016 06:30:32 GMT)

    Tim Duncan and Kobe Bryant. Dwyane Wade and Kevin Durant. Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah.

  • [New York Times] Dunn Concussed, and Sits Out Minnesota’s Loss to Cavs (Tue, 12 Jul 2016 04:27:32 GMT)

    A look at some of the highlights from Monday’s schedule in the Las Vegas Summer League:

  • [New York Times] 5-Time NBA Champion Tim Duncan Retires After 19 Seasons (Tue, 12 Jul 2016 02:30:39 GMT)

    Tim Duncan never wanted the spotlight, only the trophies. He never wanted the endorsements, only the camaraderie. He never wanted the accolades, only the collective achievement.

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    Mike Kurylo

    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    26 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.07.12)”

    1. Am I first today? Sorry Frank ;)

      I’d be thrilled if Rose became pre-injury Rose. Pre-injury Rose was a blast to watch. And sure, it’s at least possible that it could happen, so I’m fine with folks clinging to that possibility, provided they aren’t trying to argue that it is a good trade. And I don’t think anyone is seriously arguing that it was a good trade, so I’m cool with everyone on this point – I’ll be right there with you folks hoping that the slim possibility occurs.

      That sums it up. Right now it’s all speculation. We look at statistics like Tarot card that we can use to predict the future and to some degree, we can. But we cannot know for certain. I, for one, cannot wait to see real basketball again.

      I just read something where the 76’ers think they’ll have three rookie of the year candidates in Simmons, Embiid and Saric. Could this be the year when things come together for them? How do we stack up against a healthy Sixer lineup?

    2. How do we stack up against a healthy Sixer lineup?

      That’s what we call a good question mark to have. :) In other words, rookies are often a total mystery as to how they will adapt to the NBA but those three are all extremely talented players, so wow, they are tantalizing rookies. Will they put it together in their first season? Unknown. But if they do, holy shit, that Philly team would suddenly be a really, really nice looking team, as all three of those guys could be stars. And that’s without trading either Okafor or Noel, who you have to figure they could do at any point this offseason for an upgrade on Gerald Henderson or Jerryd Bayless (their current guard starters).

      I have to imagine that at least one or two of them (perhaps all three) will struggle a bit to start, though, so I think the Knicks are better than them right now.

      They really could use some more shooting, though. Jerryd Bayless and Robert Covington are, like, their only proven outside threats (Saric improved his three-point shooting a lot, so he could be good, too – we shall see).

    3. Yeah, even if all three Philly rookies play well, it’s a really unbalanced roster, with all the talent concentrated at the 4 and 5. We saw firsthand last season what happens when a gifted frontcourt is paired with terrible guard play.

    4. Continued from last thread, another thing about Brian’s view about judging transactions in retrospect is that it is entirely self-serving. It puts you in a position where you can always claim to have been right, no matter how things turn out.

    5. Honestly, years of no playoffs sucks.
      The great 90s Knicks that we all love also never won a title but I am happy if we have a team that have a realistic chance in beating anyone. Our team right now fits that bill.

    6. From NY Post, Courtney Lee’s take:

      Several teams, including the 76ers, who offered more money, sought Lee. But Lee saw the Knicks as a better fit with more immediate promise.

      “A few teams contacted. I spoke to Phil. I kept in contact with Joakim,” Lee said. “Seeing the trade they made to get Derrick Rose, signing Joakim, discussions with Brandon, I felt the team was moving in the right direction. You already had Melo and KP here. So that’s a strong core group. Thought joining this team would only increase my chances of competing in the Eastern Conference and trying to win a ring.”

      Compared with those old Nets, the 2016-17 Knicks look like the Michael Jordan Bulls of the ’90s — even with the injury histories of Rose, Noah and Anthony.

      “It’s all in the past. Everybody’s looking for a fresh start. The guys already here, it could be a great situation,” Lee said. “I’d rather go to war with guys who are eager and hungry with something to prove than guys that don’t. It was a no-brainer for me.”

      This highlights the “culture-building” aspect of the Rose trade. Clearly, Lee would not be here if it wasn’t for the Rose trade, and he was their #1 priority in free agency (beyond pipe dream guys).

      Eager and hungry with something to prove. I like that.

    7. I think we need to spend some time talking about Derrick Rose.

      Seriously though, at some point we’re going to just have to wait for the season to start and see what happens. I know “Knicks fan” THCJ will be rooting hard for Rose to crash and burn and the Knicks to win 20 games, but I feel more hopeful given the additions of Noah and Lee, the development of Zinger in his 2nd year and a head coach who seems to be pretty savvy and respected by players.

      But I guess we’ll have to wait and see.

    8. Still hoping for the Knicks to crash and burn and for Jackson to be fired but I’d be satisfied w a first/second round exit this upcoming season so long as it doesn’t involve signing Rose to a long-term contract. That scenario is nightmarish and would make D Rose a walking amnesty/ a franchise death knell

      Really all this win now stuff is only worth it if that gets us Westbrook, in which case I get to regularly enjoy Knicks basketball again since we’d be in contention for the ECF (and maybe the title with some big injury luck) for the next few years.

    9. The great 90s Knicks that we all love also never won a title but I am happy if we have a team that have a realistic chance in beating anyone. Our team right now fits that bill.

      The great 1990s Knicks that we all love were title contenders pretty much every year for a stretch there in the early 1990s. I’m totally down with a team like that. This team isn’t that.

      That said, this team could at least make the playoffs, which is nice. I do like it when the Knicks make the playoffs. And if you’re going to make ill-considered team-building decisions, at least making the playoffs makes it feel better to watch! After some of the shitty teams we’ve had to watch, I can live with the Gilbert Arenas/Antawn Jamison/Caron Butler-era Wizards.

    10. From the last thread, I gathered that saying “Phil Jackson might view a player he traded two assets for as a long term piece” is unjustified speculation and conjuncture. Saying that same player might play well after 4 years of not doing so? Reasonable optimism!

    11. “The great 1990s Knicks that we all love were title contenders pretty much every year for a stretch there in the early 1990s. I’m totally down with a team like that. This team isn’t that.”

      This team surely isn’t that, but it is closer to that than any team since then, even the 54 win team that was built with smoke and mirrors. If everything breaks right (Porzingis plays like an all-star, Melo is Melo, Rose is resurrected, Noah rebounds (no pun intended) Lee steps up, Jennings is 6MOY candidate, Lance produces, Willy and Kuz are legit NBA rotation players, Baker or Holiday surprises, and some minimum guy steps up out of nowhere, this team can beat anyone. Any one of those things not happening knocks a few wins off the ledger. But if all of the first 7 things happen, this is a 50+ win team.

    12. The thing about those ’90s teams is that management was viewed as bungling and incompetent!

    13. Oh, I forgot about O’Quinn. Maybe that’s a good thing. Would love to trade him for a bag of balls, but maybe Noah lights a fire under his ass.

    14. Even if everything breaks right this team is NOT beating Cleveland or Golden State or San Antonio (probably not even Toronto) in a 7 game series. Our ceiling if the .00001% chance of everything breaking optimally obtains is ECF exits for the next 2 years followed by declines from Melo and Noah.

      This is just a worse version of the 54 win team that might be able to win a similar number of games over 2 seasons rather than one but that is also going to be hamstrung by long term contracts given to 30+ year olds. Our strategy is Westbrook or bust. And if we bust we’re going to become the pre-Budenholzer Atlanta Hawks, stuck in an NBA no man’s land of mediocrity and 2nd round playoff exits as our ceiling, with Melo being our Joe Johnson with an NTC.

    15. Obviously, in general I totally agree, but I dunno, Toronto took Cleveland to six games, right? It’s not like Cleveland is some unbeatable team. So yes, clearly, even if things break right, this is not a great team, but odder things have happened! Not many odder things, but odder things have happened!

      That said, yes, it does seem like it is a Westbrook or bust approach. So let’s hope they get Westbrook! :)

    16. This is obviously way premature, and I REALLY want Russ (like I’ve said before he’s my favorite player), but there are some options should we strike out on him or CP3. JJ Redick, George Hill, and Shaun Livingston, for example.

    17. @12 Z-Man for 7 things to break right even if there’s a %50 chance of each happening you need to beat a 1:128 odds. Would this be your recommendation to a young man for life planning?

    18. Continued from last thread, another thing about Brian’s view about judging transactions in retrospect is that it is entirely self-serving. It puts you in a position where you can always claim to have been right, no matter how things turn out.

      And you literally said in the last thread that you can’t judge a decision until you see its outcome.

      And that Jackson has relevant access to information we don’t have, so if Rose is bad, we cannot say that it was a bad decision.

      I just have no words for you.

    19. “Still hoping for the Knicks to crash and burn…”
      Pretty sad that, months before the season even starts, some “fans” of the team are actually hoping for a crash and burn. Speaking of fans, it is good to hear so many of the guys on the team coming out and saying that they grew up as Knicks fans and always dreamed of wearing a Knicks uniform. One reason I like O’Quinn is that he said last summer that he cried when his deal with the Knicks came through. I like that Lance Thomas said that he grew up as a Knicks fan and that he re-signed with the team because he didn’t want his legacy with the team to be as a loser. I like seeing pictures of a 10 year old Joakim Noah wearing a Knicks jersey and hearing him say things like, “Wearing this jersey means everything to me.” I like that Brandon Jennings has carried a chip on his shoulder for years because he was so mad that the Knicks didn’t draft him. I like that KP openly wanted the Knicks to draft him and that, as a 10 year old he got cornrows because Melo had them (I know, Melo wasn’t on the team at the time, but I still like it). I like that Courtney Lee and Mindaugus Kuzminskas chose the Knicks even though several other teams were pursuing both of them. I even like that Melo asked for a no-trade clause because he wanted to be a Knick for the rest of his career. I realize that, objectively, there is a very real chance that the Knicks might crash and burn. However, it is good to see that, in this age of mercenary pro athletes chasing dollars and rings, so many of the guys on the Knicks actually give as much of a crap about the team as a bunch of guys like us who waste so much time on a fan website.

    20. Agreed, it’s neat to see so many of these guys so pumped to be here. New York is a special place.

    21. The thing about those ’90s teams is that management was viewed as bungling and incompetent!

      I thought Checketts was management in the 90s. I must have missed that.

    22. Anybody who says I’m not a Knicks fan can fuck straight off.

      I want a team that can actually compete for a chip, and I’m not satisfied with this faux-contender paper tiger that Phil has assembled. After 15 years of mostly embarrassing basketball I think Knick fans deserve something better than a year or two of fringe contender status then an inevitable backslide into oblivion.

    23. Big difference between saying that you are not happy with the roster and affirmatively hoping that the team stinks.

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