Knicks Morning News (2016.06.09)

  • [New York Times] Cavaliers 120, Warriors 90 | Golden State leads the series, 2-1: Cavs Flip the Script at Home, Routing the Warriors (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 05:12:03 GMT)

    Cleveland cut its deficit against Golden State to two games to one in the best-of-seven N.B.A. finals.

  • [New York Times] Cavaliers’ Kevin Love Is Out for Game 3 of the N.B.A. Finals (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 01:04:13 GMT)

    Love, who sustained a concussion after being inadvertently elbowed in Game 2, is in the league’s concussion protocol.

  • [New York Times] After Another Blowout, Now Warriors’ Need to Respond (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 06:54:37 GMT)

    It’s been the postseason of blowouts.

  • [New York Times] Slow-Starting Warriors Rue Chance to Deliver Decisive Blow (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 07:03:29 GMT)

    A sluggish start to Game Three cost the Golden State Warriors a chance to move within a win of a second consecutive NBA title and could ultimately prove to be the turning point in their Finals series against the Cleveland Cavaliers.

  • [New York Times] Wayward ‘Splash Brothers’ Allow Cleveland Fightback (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 06:21:27 GMT)

    Golden State’s “Splash Brothers” duo of Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson are in the midst of a rare drought and their suddenly wayward shooting has helped pave the way for Cleveland to climb back into the NBA Finals.

  • [New York Times] LeBron Gives Warriors Reminder That Cavs Are Up for the Fight (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 06:06:30 GMT)

    With his championship hopes on the line, LeBron James reminded everyone ready to crown the Golden State Warriors NBA champions for a second consecutive year that there is plenty of basketball left in the NBA Finals.

  • [New York Times] Curry, Warriors Start Slow, and Game 3 of Finals Gets Away (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 03:54:41 GMT)

    Stephen Curry’s only basket in the first 30 minutes came off a broken play. He found himself in foul trouble again. His jumper was nowhere to be found until it was essentially too late.

  • [New York Post] Hall of Fame coach who isn’t Phil Jackson likes Jeff Hornacek hire (Thu, 09 Jun 2016 02:00:41 -0400)

    CLEVELAND — One of the all-time great coaches thinks the Knicks made a great hire in Jeff Hornacek. Jerry Sloan, the Hall of Famer who directed the Jazz for an NBA-record 23 consecutive seasons, including two Finals runs with the Karl Malone, John Stockton and Hornacek teams, always saw a future coach in his shooting…

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    Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

    40 thoughts to “Knicks Morning News (2016.06.09)”

    1. Trying to parse Hornacek’s interview with Hahn and Humpty from the other day.
      Seems clear NYK want to sign another PG. He basically said it’s a guy in the 26-28yo range who can shoot. Steve Mills also said we need another lead guard.

      So who might fit? Here’s a quick list of PG/SG guys in the roughly in the right age range (25-29):

      DJ Augustin
      Jerryd Bayless
      Norris Cole
      Mike Conley
      Jordan Farmar
      Brandon Jennings
      Ty Lawson
      Jeremy Lin
      OJ Mayo
      Etwaun Moore
      Donald Sloan
      Ish Smith
      Lance Stephenson
      Grievis Vasquez

      Now subtracting out the guys who can’t shoot – that takes out Lance, Ish Smith, Jennings.
      Ideally subtracting out guys who can’t defend – that takes away Vasquez, Bayless, Augustin
      Subtracting guys out who don’t seem like fits ($ or otherwise) – Conley, Jeremy Lin

      That leaves us with a list of Norris Cole, Farmar, Ty Lawson, Mayo, Moore, Sloan

      None of those players should be particularly expensive.
      Lawson and Mayo may be good buy-low candidates.
      Farmar has triangle experience I think? He sort of sucks though.
      I would love Etwaun Moore, even if his 3 point shooting was a semi-mirage (shot 45% from 3 this past year, previous high in the NBA was 37.8).
      Donald Sloan is also a pretty solid player.

      Norris Cole sort of sucks too but if he comes cheap enough that’d be fine, certainly defensively.

    2. None of these players are good enough to justify paying them the money they’ll command. Either we trade for a PG or we stick with Grant/Calderon or we draft a new one. I don’t think any option other than those is feasible financially or strategically.

      Though I’d probably take a flyer on Lawson if I were sure he was working on his alcoholism. I think I read an article that said the Knicks weren’t interested in Lawson because of his off the court issues, but I could be misremembering. I’d also like to see Lin here, just for nostalgia’s sake, and because he’d do pretty well in a Hornacek offense. But he’ll likely demand too much money and there’s still bad blood so that option is out the window as well.

    3. The best option is Kay Felder. By the end of the year, he will be the best PG on the team. The guy had a TS% of .570 and an assist rate of 50%. He’s got a pro body. He’ll be ready to play on Day 1.

      All kidding aside, from the list above, I like Jeremy Lin the best. He’d give the Garden some juice, and is a better all-around player now than he was when we last had him. I think he’d fit Hornacek’s style.

    4. Would you give up a future first round pick for Jeff Teague?

      Would Jeff Teague be available for a 1st round pick?

    5. Teague would probably be ideal from age/shooting/penetration perspective. Still a low $ amount, expires after this season so we can still go after CP3 or Westbrook. But I can’t imagine we have anything we would want to give Atlanta (that would be reasonable for us to give them). I could semi-imagine trading Lopez for Teague + picks (ie. 3 second round picks or something like that) but I’m not sure that really helps us, since i think Lopez is pretty good, on a very reasonable contract, and we don’t have an obvious center who is ready to play there full-time.

    6. I think that I would do a future protected first for Teague if they threw us back one or more 2016 seconds this year.

    7. Why in the world would we give up a first for Jeff Teague? He’s the definition of a league average PG. Why wouldn’t I get someone who’s a bit worse for less money on a contract that doesn’t expire in 2017 when the cap rises even further?

      No no no to trading picks unless it’s incredibly lopsided. We’re supposed to be growing sustainably, which means making smart acquisitions that outperform their contract value which means underrated FA acquisitions and good players on rookie scale contracts. Growing sustainably means you don’t blithely trade a pick at the prospect of getting an average guy at a position of need who’s gonna get overpaid the year after.

    8. It’s rumored that the Knicks have interest in Jordan Clarkson and that the Lakers have all intentions of matching any contract. If the Lakers do go hard after DeRozan, I think Clarkson could be had for a Chandler Parsons type deal. I’d like Clarkson; he can rebound and shoot threes for the position and turned 24 two days ago.

    9. Subtracting guys out who don’t seem like fits ($ or otherwise) – Conley

      I don't know. I kind of feel like Conley and the Dolan Knicks are destined for each other. The Knicks are desperate for a PG. He's the best PG free agent on the market and the Knicks have money for a max contract. In years past, this would be a foregone conclusion. I'm skeptical that things have really changed that much.

    10. Clarkson’s fine but paying him a max or even just a poison pill for his current level of production smells a bit like putting it all on black

      Granted he’s only 24, so it’s possible that he could improve significantly, but I think it’s just better to save our cap besides signing like, Solomon Hill + 1, or something.

      Unless, you know, Hassan Whiteside or KD want to come here. Which isn’t happening, but is nice to entertain.

    11. Why in the world would we give Up a first for Jeff Teague? He’s the definition of a league average point guard.

      The going rate for league average point guards is a first round pick. (Actually, it’s multiple first round picks– see Dragic, Holliday, etc…)

      That’s one of the reasons they Knicks need to grow their own league average point guards!

    12. True enough; the market valuations for most free agent PGs are massively inflated compared to their actual productivity.

      Agree with what you said. Players, like vegetables, are best when you grow your own.

    13. Why in the world would we give up a first for Jeff Teague? He’s the definition of a league average PG. Why wouldn’t I get someone who’s a bit worse for less money on a contract that doesn’t expire in 2017 when the cap rises even further?

      I think Teague is a little better than average. Granted, there are a lot of very good PGs out there these days, but he’s good. The idea would be that if you got Teague for a draft pick, you have Lopez, KP, Melo, Teague, and still have some cap space to fill in the SG role now. I don’t believe we’d have to match salaries on that trade. Teague only makes 8 million. If you also add an upgrade at SG, that team is going to make the playoffs unless there are loads of injuries and/or KP shows zero improvement. So a future 1st rounder would be unlikely to yield anything special anyway as long as it was protected (just in case).

      I have mixed feelings about something like that.

      I don’t like the idea of giving up a pick. That has been one of our problems in the past. But we’ve also had morons at the helm making bad deals for those picks. Trading away a pick is not automatically a bad deal. It depends on what you get back. I would way rather have several other players at PG. I just don’t see anyone I actually want being available. I see us being forced to overpay long term for someone I don’t really want. How is that much better?

      If we pulled off a trade for Teague, he’d get a cheap 1 year audition in NY to find out if we want him long term and how much he is worth and we’d also have space to fill out other needs. The alternative appears to be to overpay someone we don’t really want long term.

      The other alternative to is to go with what we have at PG – which kind of means surrendering another season unless we get a huge upside surprise from Grant or Wroten.

    14. The going rate for league average point guards is a first round pick. (Actually, it’s multiple first round picks– see Dragic, Holliday, etc…)

      That’s one of the reasons they Knicks need to grow their own league average point guards!

      You’re right that it’s the going rate, but that doesn’t mean we should pay it. Teams pay that rate because they think they can make a deep playoff run (or, in the case of New Orleans, because they’re dumb). You don’t make that trade just to become a playoff team. Our picks are infinitely more valuable than Jeff Teague.

      EDIT: and he’s a one year rental, no less. A first round pick for one year of Jeff Teague when you’re a 32 win team. Really?

    15. I should add, I don’t want anyone on the original poster’s list given what we are likely to have to pay relative to their talents. The only exception is Conley. But even Conley is not “perfect”. He’s coming off an achilles injury of some type that no one seems to want to talk about and he’s been the PG on one of the slowest paced teams in the NBA when our new coach is correctly talking about upping the pace. Of course that may all be irrelevant anyway because he’ll probably sign in Memphis.

    16. I’d say it’s not that easy to draft point guards with immediate positive impact. Russell and Mudiay come to mind. So heck yes I’d trade a ’17 protected pick for Teague and try to get a second rounder back and take Gary Payton with it.

      Then I’d max Batum or Fournier and we would be very, very good!

    17. I still don’t think that’s a good trade, but the point is moot, because there is no way Atlanta would go for a protected first-rounder in exchange for Teague; Philly is already in serious talks with them to trade Nerlens Noel, a top pick on a valuable contract, in exchange for a one year rental. Those are the kind of offers Atlanta is fielding.

    18. Our picks are infinitely more valuable than Jeff Teague.

      Giving up a first rounder from a playoff team (which we will be next year with Teague and cap space) is not infinitely more valuable than Jeff Teague. He was an all-star the year before this last one and did not have a bad year this year.

      EDIT: and he’s a one year rental, no less. A first round pick for one year of Jeff Teague when you’re a 32 win team. Really?

      He’s only a rental if you don’t sign him again. I think if he played here and we also added a SG (which we could afford), we’d be a playoff team, still have plenty of upside from young players, and we’d sign him back.

      You can look at the downsides of something like this, but until you come up with something other than overpaying some scrub backup PG long term money, this is not such a bad idea. Come up with a good starting PG that we won’t have to wildly overpay long term and that will also not use up the cap space we need for other positions.

      I’m all ears.

    19. there is no way Atlanta would go for a protected first-rounder in exchange for Teague; Philly is already in serious talks with them to trade Nerlens Noel, a top pick on a valuable contract, in exchange for a one year rental. Those are the kind of offers Atlanta is fielding.

      This is more sensible counter than saying it’s a bad deal when our alternatives seem clearly worse.

    20. Seems clear NYK want to sign another PG. He basically said it’s a guy in the 26-28yo range who can shoot. Steve Mills also said we need another lead guard.

      Maybe Hornacek wants to trade for Eric Bledsoe. I would take the risk with him, injuries and everything… I’d say meniscus injuries shorten your career, but usually players still enjoy good prime years. I wonder what is the price.

    21. Did I somehow log onto the bizarro Knickerblogger site? For the last year, everyone has been screaming, “Don’t trade away first round picks!” and now people are advocating trading away a first round pick for one year of Jeff Teague? That’s an interesting turn of events.

    22. Giving up a first rounder from a playoff team (which we will be next year with Teague and cap space)

      I remember an erstwhile commenter saying the same thing about the pick we gave up for Bargnani.

      Don’t ever assume the Knicks will be a playoff team.

    23. @22. No, don’t trade a first for Teague when there is so much cap space available this year and next. Sign guys for free and keep the picks. Phil seems to love gaining picks, not dealing them away, so this may all be a moot point.

      If Atlanta can get Noel for Teague, more power to them.

    24. You can look at the downsides of something like this, but until you come up with something other than overpaying some scrub backup PG long term money, this is not such a bad idea. Come up with a good starting PG that we won’t have to wildly overpay long term and that will also not use up the cap space we need for other positions.

      I’m all ears.

      Here’s my plan:

      Play Calderon and Grant and wait til we can draft a good PG or make a trade for one that doesn’t involve giving up future draft picks for a guy you’re likely going to overpay in a year.

      Wait for value. There is absolutely no need to be impatient.

    25. yeah I’m not trading any 1st round picks for a rental. Not only do we not want to lose young talent, but it’s also cost-controlled young talent that is still tied to a salary scale that is not changing even with that cap exploding (pending reopening CBA of course). Draft picks are more valuable than ever in this “Kent Bazemore will get paid AAV $18MM” world.

      If Teague was signed for, say 2-3 more years at $8MM/year, then yes, I think he’d be worth discussing sending a protected 1st. But he’s not.

      I guess what I’m saying is that I’d rather pay, say, OJ Mayo $8MM/year x 3 years than send a 1st round draft pick to get 1 year of Teague at $8MM and 4 more years of Teague at $18MM/year. Mayo is not as good a player as Teague offensively (probably is better defensively) but he’ll probably cost waaaay less and leave us money to go after the actually good FAs next year.

    26. Here’s my plan:

      Play Calderon and Grant and wait til we can draft a good PG or make a trade for one that doesn’t involve giving up future draft picks for a guy you’re likely going to overpay in a year.

      Wait for value. There is absolutely no need to be impatient.

      YES.
      We are not challenging for a title in 2016-17 anyway.

    27. I remember an erstwhile commenter saying the same thing about the pick we gave up for Bargnani.

      Don’t ever assume the Knicks will be a playoff team.

      Anyone that thought giving up a pick for Bargnani (when it should have been the other way around) is not someone I want making or evaluating deals for the Knicks.

    28. I’m wondering and perhaps someone can enlighten me but what exactly does Kevin Love do that is elite? Throw outlet passes? Certainly not defend (Amare level), he shoots at a average to above average level, he doesn’t seem to rebound in traffic well..

    29. If we’re talking about a guard who can shoot, then I’m thinking DJ Augustin for a 1+1 player option. Won’t be too expensive, may be willing to take a discount for a starting job, and he’s an upgrade over what we have now.

    30. If Teague was signed for, say 2-3 more years at $8MM/year, then yes, I think he’d be worth discussing sending a protected 1st. But he’s not.

      Let’s be realistic. If Teague was signed for 2-3 more years at 8M you wouldn’t be able to get near him for anything the Knicks could offer.

      Also, can we please stop saying he would be a rental. In all probability we would sign him to a long term deal after that.

      So compare:

      1. Teague at whatever he would cost in 2 years + the extra cap space we’d have next year because he’s only making 8M now, minus a pick.

      2. Someone else on that list being overpaid long term and getting us nowhere fast with a bad long term contract + a pick.

      3. Doing nothing and having the pick.

      To me, it’s #1 or #3 and I think I prefer #1 by a hair.

    31. Jeff Teague TS% regular season:

      2014-2015 .566
      2015-2016 .551

      Playoffs:

      2014-2015 .507
      2015-2016 .504

      Pass

    32. Jeff Teague is a mediocre point guard. We’re some bad injury luck from picking in the lottery next season. Don’t trade a pick for Jeff Teague. If Grant doesn’t improve at all, the Knicks are roughly 3-5 wins better with Teague instead of Jerian. If Grant improves a bit we’re looking at giving up a first round pick to win another 2 games? How does that make any sense?

    33. If Phil manages to pull off an offseason of nabbing Joakim Noah, Bazemore, Ty Lawson, and a late 1st/early 2nd- I think that would be a pretty good squad. Noah & Lawson would probably come cheap, and I’m really intrigued by Bazemore. I think he can become a Danny Green type. If OQ gets his head in the game, we wouldn’t need a Noah with Hernangomez hopefully coming over. And if this scenario were to come to fruition, Phil can use that late 1st/early 2nd on a PG prospect. By all accounts, Wroten has his explosiveness back. Like him or not, but he’s big, quick, penetrates, and gets to the line. That alone should balance out Melo & KP. Hopefully, learning from Hornacek and Phil can make him mature as a player and more of a 2 way type guard. I’m hoping for the best with Wroten, I think he’s the wild card. I would love to see Durant on the squad, but i’m not sure Phil needs to make a big splash. Guys like KP, Wroten, Grant, Galloway, OQ, and Williams just need to be coached up. Maybe Hornacek/Phil can maximize their talents. I certainly hope so. Oh..and we also need a healthy Melo playing like he did last season, but with more of a 4th quarter showing.

    34. Phil has really focused on getting high character players, smart or not I doubt we get Lawson. Again I would advocate for DJ Augustin over Teague. Teague’s numbers are only marginally better and Augustin can be had for less $$ and without giving up a 1st round pick. Augustin’s advanced defensive numbers look terrible compared to Teague, but Teague played on the 2nd best defensive team in the league while Augustin played half the season on one of the worst.

    35. Are we even allowed to trade next year’s pick? I think the Stepien rule (prohibiting a team from trading consecutive picks) does not apply after the draft has passed, so we would be. It would be nice to know we can’t, though. Just in case.

    36. If Teague was signed for, say 2-3 more years at $8MM/year, then yes, I think he’d be worth discussing sending a protected 1st. But he’s not.

      Lol. In this scenario, Atlanta hangs up the phone so hard it creates a tsunami in the South Pacific. Even as is, a protected 1st doesn’t get you Jeff Teague (an above avg PG in his prime, one year removed from an all-star appearance).

      I’m all for a one year PG rental anyway–someone good enough to help us make the playoffs and then leave to make room for Chris Paul.

    37. But speaking of realistic PG rentals and going back to the top comment, I would not put Brandon Jennings in the “can’t shoot” category. He’s not an efficient scorer, for sure, but he has range on his jumper and can shoot the three well enough to keep defenses honest.

      I’m not like, a fan of Jennings or anything, but to me he’s the most obvious buy low/short term candidate out there if he’s fully healthy. You know he would love to play in the garden and I bet you he would take a generous one year deal to prove on the big stage that he is still a starter in this league. Before he got injured and replaced by Reggie Jackson he was actually playing quite well for the Pistons.

      Hardly an earth shattering acquisition but ¯\_(?)_/¯

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